I agree with this. Remove dilithium costs from projects and raise the discount slightly, and if the mining dailies are any good (2000-5000 dilithium per day) then it would actually live up to the promise of helping small fleets.
This could work.
Dilithium is my fleets biggest stumbling block, as written there is no way the Mine will ever be of benefit to us.
I'm just going to state the obvious which it seems no one else has bothered to...
It's a fraking Dilithium Mine, why in the hell should I have to spend dil to improve a dilithium mine??
With all the commodities, equipment, doffs, boffs, etc in the game you really couldn't find a way to build a mine without needing Dilithium?
I know i'm going to get slammed for mentioning real life concerning a video game, but let's look at this realistically for a minute.
When you mine for rubies, gold, diamonds, etc do you need massive amounts of those to build the mine? No, you need money, people, equipment, housing, food, and building materials. In-game equivalents would be Ec, Doff/Boff, equipment, commodities, food, but since dilithium is a fundamental part of power systems in ST, there should be a build power supply project that requires an initial amount of dil, but only that one mission and only once.
Requiring Dilithium to build a Dilithium mine that is supposed to help reduce cost to smaller fleets doesn't help at all, and as many said it costs more than you save. Forget whatever they're adding in the future for more holdings, those are irrelevant right now.
200,000+ dil for a tier 2 project, 160,00+ for another one, both again on a tier 2 fleet base is insane considering there are a lot more than just those two all at once.
Fleetbases should be fun, slightly challenging, and functional places for fleets to gather, and work together on a common goal.
Removing Doff missions and Fleet gear for the moment which should be perks let's look at the actual functions of fleetbases.
Can you run holodeck specific missions at the fleetbase............No
Do Embassies have player diplomatic side missions..................No
Fleet shipyard have unique R&D (Crafting)...............................No
Dilithium Mine allows players to do the dil mining dailies..........Don't know do they?
So again without Fleet gear being a consideration what purpose do they serve?
Since you obviously didn't read my entire post or didn't comprehend the point I was trying to make I've conveniently highlighted the relevant text. And for future reference next time you want to comment on a single line from one of my posts, why don't you actually try reading the entire post, if you had bothered to in the first place you probably would have agreed instead of making yourself look foolish.
Another boost to big fleets and their equipment, and another mountainous task for small fleets.
Lordy Lordy how this game hates anyone in a less than 100 man fleet lol
So D-Stahl, how exactly does this help a small fleet "significantly improve a small fleets ability"? Do you actually believe the things you say? How does adding more holdings help a small fleet? 35k FM's to the T-3 upgrade, really? What it is that actually makes you think a small fleet can earn that many marks? We are a 5 man fleet, a family fleet. We would have to run 50,000 fleet events, during the fleet mark bonus event, just to earn 35k FM's. Do you like to do the same **** thousands of times to achieve a goal? This is a joke!
Come up with something that will actually help us, not more BS holdings that require impossible amounts for small fleets, like 35k fms, 700k dilithium, 1000 common DO's. Yeah this is really gonna help us out, thanks.
How about creating a fleet mark bank that gains interest, or how about scaling the holdings based on fleet size? Actually do what you say you are going to do. Not just more of Cryptics everyday "oh yeah we're going to look into that mentality"
You continue to neglect the small fleets. The person that came up with this idea as helping small fleets should really be re-evaluated, because it in fact does nothing of the sort.
Since you obviously didn't read my entire post or didn't comprehend the point I was trying to make I've conveniently highlighted the relevant text. And for future reference next time you want to comment on a single line from one of my posts, why don't you actually try reading the entire post, if you had bothered to in the first place you probably would have agreed instead of making yourself look foolish.
I'm not the one who looks foolish for failing to comprehend basic facts...
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
So D-Stahl, how exactly does this help a small fleet "significantly improve a small fleets ability"? Do you actually believe the things you say? How does adding more holdings help a small fleet? 35k FM's to the T-3 upgrade, really? What it is that actually makes you think a small fleet can earn that many marks? We are a 5 man fleet, a family fleet. We would have to run 50,000 fleet events, during the fleet mark bonus event, just to earn 35k FM's. Do you like to do the same **** thousands of times to achieve a goal? This is a joke!
Come up with something that will actually help us, not more BS holdings that require impossible amounts for small fleets, like 35k fms, 700k dilithium, 1000 common DO's. Yeah this is really gonna help us out, thanks.
How about creating a fleet mark bank that gains interest, or how about scaling the holdings based on fleet size? Actually do what you say you are going to do. Not just more of Cryptics everyday "oh yeah we're going to look into that mentality"
You continue to neglect the small fleets. The person that came up with this idea as helping small fleets should really be re-evaluated, because it in fact does nothing of the sort.
Thanks again.
I'll save you a little grief, as I am feeling your grief too (small fleet of local friends here...)
However, D. Stahl has seemingly firmly committed himself to the belief that a "small" fleet is at least 20-25 people, not the minimum of 5...
Therefore, in his eyes, and using your math, each individual in the fleet [sarcasm] only [/sarcasm] needs to run ~1,000 events during a bonus period to tier up the fleet...
Well, at least the DOff requirement change of this patch will once again limit my micro-squad to being locked down on fleet marks instead of DOffs, cause shortly (as I hit tier 2 in each block), I'll be able to buy all my DOffs with fleet credits and fill those bars easily... :P
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Nice patch notes for Tribble....but hmmm...could you guys really think about keeping Holodeck online for more than a day? Seriously...the daily server crashes are getting really bloody old at this point....more patches coming to live....and totally untested....i see Holodeck dying again real soon....sigh
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
This is the same problem with lockboxes, you people just aren't seeing it.
This holding isn't purely about dilithium discounts, yes you get them (which is very nice) but look at what you get on the side for the price/grinding you're paying.
1. Incredibly nice fleet armor consoles
2. Really good fleet warp cores
3. More dil dailies in what I presume to be a single spot, also conveniently close to the other dilithium mine to help farming go faster
Of course when you work towards only one singular goal and ignore everything else, its going to seem extraordinarily costly and ridiculous, like with lock-boxes (people opening them JUST to get a super rare item and writing off all the other shinies they get as nothing), just look at what else you're getting for the cost.
I for one am extremely excited for this new holding, those consoles and warp cores are really really good and I could really use em, along with a more centralized place to get dilithium quickly and easily.
Also please note that the dilithium discounts are still pretty significant, though yes if you look at the numbers it costs more than it overall saves, it isn't YOU paying it (unless you're an idiot running a 1 man fleet), its several people, if you divide that up the discounts generally mean less painful star base upgrading in the future for the work everyone puts in now, and you get goodies on the side too!
Oh, Embassy has already proven that for small fleets, this is a joke.
For example, our Embassy T2 upgrade isn't moving at all, even though we've filled everything but the dilithium!
I've already made the decision to write off the Dil Mine except for unlocking the Advanced Fleet Cores, since it's been proven we don't have the resources in Dil to progress on this.
Not with all the other things we are working on that also require Dil.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
As a Manager deciding sales for a major chain in my past career I can tell you one thing for sure: consumers don't consider they are getting ANY kind of deal/benefit unless the discount is in the double digits.
Basic rule of thumb is sales start at bare minimum 10% - anything less in pointless as people preceive the opposite - that they are being ripped off.
So most sales actually begin at the 15% mark - like the Zen sales - more at the 20% mark like the ship sales.
I would strongly encourage Cryptic to get the discount above the single digit "it's worthless" threshold.
Bare minimum it should be 4% per tier for 12% total
However for maximum effect it shout be 5% per tier or 15% as people percieve 15% much higher - closer to 20 that 12% which is percieved as just barely above 10%
From the on-going outrage over the dilithium mine "discount" I would say it's more of a perception problem.
12% minumium would take some of this away- 15% would take almost all of it away.
I like the 5%, 10%, 15% ranges for about the reason posted by the person above me. 3% does not really feel like a discount, plus its a number thats really annoying to divide by, you get all sorts of odd remainders and partial reductions. With the current rates you will not see a reduction in doff costs until you are 2-3 tiers into the mine or your SB is tier 3 projects. Until then all the discounts are below 1, unless its rounded up you end up with no change in the Doff costs. 5% feels like an actual discount and divides into most of the costs easily.
15% at tier 3 would feel like a real reduction. People I've talked to feel that 9% is such a small reduction its not worth it. They will work on it for the consoles but consider the cost reductions just too small to add value.
All this looks good but are you planning on increasing the daily refining limit. Seriously I know that there is a cap for a reason but 8,000 per day has bugged me since I started refining Dilithium long ago.
I think the cap should be increased to double that amount.
There is a project via the Dil Mine to increase your Daily Dil refine limit... by 500, usable only once per char.
How about adding an addition Thoilan Ground Battle to the Que inplace of jus kopy'ing the Nukara Prime mission. The latter sounds "lazier".
Also, the reward for not getting many 'optionals' on the Atmosphere Assault needs tobe toned down. You get around 10 Mark for a very hard/long battle. It's not even at par. And if sum1 disconnects or leaves the team... it's impossible to hit nuetralize all the targets before time runs put. Shuttle aren't that powerful, added most ppl have the default one.
-V
P.S. That Mine thing sounds a bit silly, but we will see.
Oh, Embassy has already proven that for small fleets, this is a joke.
For example, our Embassy T2 upgrade isn't moving at all, even though we've filled everything but the dilithium!
I've already made the decision to write off the Dil Mine except for unlocking the Advanced Fleet Cores, since it's been proven we don't have the resources in Dil to progress on this.
Not with all the other things we are working on that also require Dil.
But the main difference between the Dilithium Mine and Embassy is that Mine upgrades don't need dilithium and the only upgrade project that does is the Fleet Shuttle project which is completely optional. So it costs about 2.5 million dilithium to get to Tier 3 instead of 8 million for the Embassy. Also, there is the possibility that Cryptic might see common sense and get rid of dilithium requirements all together for the Dilithium Mine. So the only major problem with the Dilithium Mine is Fleet Marks.
Comments
This could work.
Dilithium is my fleets biggest stumbling block, as written there is no way the Mine will ever be of benefit to us.
Since you obviously didn't read my entire post or didn't comprehend the point I was trying to make I've conveniently highlighted the relevant text. And for future reference next time you want to comment on a single line from one of my posts, why don't you actually try reading the entire post, if you had bothered to in the first place you probably would have agreed instead of making yourself look foolish.
So D-Stahl, how exactly does this help a small fleet "significantly improve a small fleets ability"? Do you actually believe the things you say? How does adding more holdings help a small fleet? 35k FM's to the T-3 upgrade, really? What it is that actually makes you think a small fleet can earn that many marks? We are a 5 man fleet, a family fleet. We would have to run 50,000 fleet events, during the fleet mark bonus event, just to earn 35k FM's. Do you like to do the same **** thousands of times to achieve a goal? This is a joke!
Come up with something that will actually help us, not more BS holdings that require impossible amounts for small fleets, like 35k fms, 700k dilithium, 1000 common DO's. Yeah this is really gonna help us out, thanks.
How about creating a fleet mark bank that gains interest, or how about scaling the holdings based on fleet size? Actually do what you say you are going to do. Not just more of Cryptics everyday "oh yeah we're going to look into that mentality"
You continue to neglect the small fleets. The person that came up with this idea as helping small fleets should really be re-evaluated, because it in fact does nothing of the sort.
Thanks again.
Mines are supposed to produce ore, not take it!
It would be like someone saying, okay, here's a ruby mine, now give me rubies so that I can give you rubies in return.
And I'm not the only one who thinks so.
I told a fleetmate about this and he shared my opinion that it's a flawed premise.
Therefore, Cryptic should remove the Dil requirement from these projects, just so it makes sense!
Mind you, I'm cynical on this subject.
Cryptic keeps finding ways to make us spend Dil, possibly with the aim of spending massive amounts of time ingame to farm it or buy it with C-points.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I'm not the one who looks foolish for failing to comprehend basic facts...
I'll save you a little grief, as I am feeling your grief too (small fleet of local friends here...)
However, D. Stahl has seemingly firmly committed himself to the belief that a "small" fleet is at least 20-25 people, not the minimum of 5...
Therefore, in his eyes, and using your math, each individual in the fleet [sarcasm] only [/sarcasm] needs to run ~1,000 events during a bonus period to tier up the fleet...
Well, at least the DOff requirement change of this patch will once again limit my micro-squad to being locked down on fleet marks instead of DOffs, cause shortly (as I hit tier 2 in each block), I'll be able to buy all my DOffs with fleet credits and fill those bars easily... :P
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
/10char
STO Screenshot Archive
These tasks are rediculously impossible to accomplish by small fleets.
THIS IS MY SOLUTION:
Lower the cost of the small projects (like the departments in the starbase) but keep the cost to upgrade the entire holding.
Me too
This holding isn't purely about dilithium discounts, yes you get them (which is very nice) but look at what you get on the side for the price/grinding you're paying.
1. Incredibly nice fleet armor consoles
2. Really good fleet warp cores
3. More dil dailies in what I presume to be a single spot, also conveniently close to the other dilithium mine to help farming go faster
Of course when you work towards only one singular goal and ignore everything else, its going to seem extraordinarily costly and ridiculous, like with lock-boxes (people opening them JUST to get a super rare item and writing off all the other shinies they get as nothing), just look at what else you're getting for the cost.
I for one am extremely excited for this new holding, those consoles and warp cores are really really good and I could really use em, along with a more centralized place to get dilithium quickly and easily.
Also please note that the dilithium discounts are still pretty significant, though yes if you look at the numbers it costs more than it overall saves, it isn't YOU paying it (unless you're an idiot running a 1 man fleet), its several people, if you divide that up the discounts generally mean less painful star base upgrading in the future for the work everyone puts in now, and you get goodies on the side too!
For example, our Embassy T2 upgrade isn't moving at all, even though we've filled everything but the dilithium!
I've already made the decision to write off the Dil Mine except for unlocking the Advanced Fleet Cores, since it's been proven we don't have the resources in Dil to progress on this.
Not with all the other things we are working on that also require Dil.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Basic rule of thumb is sales start at bare minimum 10% - anything less in pointless as people preceive the opposite - that they are being ripped off.
So most sales actually begin at the 15% mark - like the Zen sales - more at the 20% mark like the ship sales.
I would strongly encourage Cryptic to get the discount above the single digit "it's worthless" threshold.
Bare minimum it should be 4% per tier for 12% total
However for maximum effect it shout be 5% per tier or 15% as people percieve 15% much higher - closer to 20 that 12% which is percieved as just barely above 10%
From the on-going outrage over the dilithium mine "discount" I would say it's more of a perception problem.
12% minumium would take some of this away- 15% would take almost all of it away.
15% at tier 3 would feel like a real reduction. People I've talked to feel that 9% is such a small reduction its not worth it. They will work on it for the consoles but consider the cost reductions just too small to add value.
There is a project via the Dil Mine to increase your Daily Dil refine limit... by 500, usable only once per char.
Also, the reward for not getting many 'optionals' on the Atmosphere Assault needs tobe toned down. You get around 10 Mark for a very hard/long battle. It's not even at par. And if sum1 disconnects or leaves the team... it's impossible to hit nuetralize all the targets before time runs put. Shuttle aren't that powerful, added most ppl have the default one.
-V
P.S. That Mine thing sounds a bit silly, but we will see.
But the main difference between the Dilithium Mine and Embassy is that Mine upgrades don't need dilithium and the only upgrade project that does is the Fleet Shuttle project which is completely optional. So it costs about 2.5 million dilithium to get to Tier 3 instead of 8 million for the Embassy. Also, there is the possibility that Cryptic might see common sense and get rid of dilithium requirements all together for the Dilithium Mine. So the only major problem with the Dilithium Mine is Fleet Marks.