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  • lored2deathlored2death Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Just getting a look at this after seeing my mail. Thanks for jacking a bunch of items out of my hands. Granted, most of them were BOs. But where the heck do you intend us to store all this? I'm not made of money to throw at you so I can buy more space. I now have ZERO respect for any of you. Even more so now that you talk to your customers through a cheap social network site about ninja patches instead of on the forums. That's pathetic. :mad:

    Nail head...I would like you to meet hammer. That was the point, the money Lebowski.

    It's not good P.R. to call something the "Buy more bank space" patch. Ooooooor......

    Maybe the servers truly are so bad and loaded that everyone having massive emails clogging up space was log-jamming parts of the game. But seeing that this limit is in and the game is more unstable than I've seen it in years, I'm betting on the former.
  • lored2deathlored2death Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    erei1 wrote: »
    Maybe it's not, but it was never intended to be a storage area.
    In many MMO, they add a timer on mail to avoid this kind of situation. 100storage item on mail is already something big, and you should be very grateful.

    It take a lot of bandwith to have every player with 100bank storage, expecially on a f2p, where you can simply make an account to store more (a basic account will store 200item minimum on mail, plus some in bank, that's a lot.).

    I wouldn't be surprised if they add a timer later on, and ask you to remove the item from your mail before deletion.

    Doing such thing may decrease the storage/character trade lag.

    You had me going until the idea that we should be "grateful", lol. What you said makes sense overall but I don't need to be slapped in the face and then thank the one who did it.

    I don't get why everyone is so eager to bow their heads these days. It seems like on nearly every level of American society, we thank those that do us wrong. (and while there may be a decent argument for why they did it, not telling anyone in a patch note is wrong, imo.)
  • elessymelessym Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Nail head...I would like you to meet hammer. That was the point, the money Lebowski.

    It's not good P.R. to call something the "Buy more bank space" patch. Ooooooor......

    Maybe the servers truly are so bad and loaded that everyone having massive emails clogging up space was log-jamming parts of the game. But seeing that this limit is in and the game is more unstable than I've seen it in years, I'm betting on the former.

    Actually, my guess is that once Neverwinter launched (and that game has big time storage restrictions), they didn't want NW players using mail as storage too. So they implemented a limit. Since the mail system is shared across all Cryptic games, STO just got caught in the backblast.
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Nail head...I would like you to meet hammer. That was the point, the money Lebowski.

    It's not good P.R. to call something the "Buy more bank space" patch. Ooooooor......

    Maybe the servers truly are so bad and loaded that everyone having massive emails clogging up space was log-jamming parts of the game. But seeing that this limit is in and the game is more unstable than I've seen it in years, I'm betting on the former.

    The ONLY issue with the mail system is that nobody is making money off it.

    ya think the servers are clogged now ? Just wait till all the mule accounts start being created. Wadda they gonna do then ? I.P./account matching ?
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • kiriseekirisee Member Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Is the Mail delete even working yet?

    Last night it still wasn't?!

    Deleting mail still isn't working as of Noon PST today....i wish it was, starting to get full lol
    "If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
  • suiksagasuiksaga Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    The ONLY issue with the mail system is that nobody is making money off it.

    ya think the servers are clogged now ? Just wait till all the mule accounts start being created. Wadda they gonna do then ? I.P./account matching ?


    At this point I wouldn't put it past them considering similar actions they have done or just as knee jerking reactions both here in the past and in neverwinter.
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,985 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    kirisee wrote: »
    Deleting mail still isn't working as of Noon PST today....i wish it was, starting to get full lol

    So after everyone has a full mailbox the servers will explode and then they can prioritize fixing it?
  • nafeasonto1nafeasonto1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Well they want you to buy more Zen, then that will fix the servers right?

    Wow this company is really starting to get on my nerves.

    Well I guess everyone will need to keep buying Zen, to get more storage space, sorry guys!

    You all thought Zen was great, now you are all mad. Give me a break.
  • kiriseekirisee Member Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It should be noted that the only ones saying its an exploit are the trolls.


    No, it should be noted that the only ones saying its not an exploit are the exploiters.

    Still can't see how you just can't plain see that it was supposed to be a "Mail System" not a "Personal Bank System"....just because you "could" use it for personal bank storage, does not mean that was the intent of the system. We were given 500 mails to make sure that mail could be returned from the exchange, to trade items to alts, etc, not your type of use of the system.

    But i will never convince you what you did was wrong, so i'll just sit back and laugh at this thread now.....and sorry for your losses
    "If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So after everyone has a full mailbox the servers will explode and then they can prioritize fixing it?

    Maybe they just wait for them to explode and tell everyone the only way to fix it is to wipe all of everyones mail.
    ;)
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You had me going until the idea that we should be "grateful", lol. What you said makes sense overall but I don't need to be slapped in the face and then thank the one who did it.

    I don't get why everyone is so eager to bow their heads these days. It seems like on nearly every level of American society, we thank those that do us wrong. (and while there may be a decent argument for why they did it, not telling anyone in a patch note is wrong, imo.)
    Which is fine, I'm not american :) And I complain a lot, on a lot of things in various games (DLC thingy, cash shop, gamblebox, p2win...).
    But for once, I think it's alright. I understand people being disappointed by the restriction, and I think they should have warned you. However, compared to others MMO, where you simply doesn't have any mail storage, yes, I think it's an improvement for the player. Also, considering it's a "free feature" it's even more interesting.
    I just say you should be grateful for having it, not for the "no warning" patch. Obviously, this was a mistake.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,985 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    Maybe they just wait for them to explode and tell everyone the only way to fix it is to wipe all of everyones mail.
    ;)

    That would be alright with me!

    I miss the days when you could mass delete mail.
  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    That would be alright with me!

    I miss the days when you could mass delete mail.

    BITE YOUR TONGUE !

    I've been trying for weeks to get a working game, so don't give them ideas before I can retrieve my attachments.

    I've already decided to make my new rom toon the designated account mule, until I get a few more accounts setup.
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • elessymelessym Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Well, all I can say is if they plan to stick to this new policy, then I'm going to cheese every bit of storage that I can.

    Cryptic wants to start a fight over who can be cheaper, eh?

    *cracks knuckles*
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,985 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    BITE YOUR TONGUE !

    I've been trying for weeks to get a working game, so don't give them ideas before I can retrieve my attachments.

    I've already decided to make my new rom toon the designated account mule, until I get a few more accounts setup.

    Probably a bad time to do so what with all the problems with the mail.
  • elessymelessym Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Probably a bad time to do so what with all the problems with the mail.

    Maybe they could just store the mail client-side...
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Probably a bad time to do so what with all the problems with the mail.

    ;)
    It's not really my problem, I've never had a desire or a need to run more than 1 toon, till now. 3 spares per account should give me the doff storage I need till they get their issues sorted. They created the problem, I'll work around it till they get it fixed. As long as attachment retrieval still works I may be able to salvage my lockbox ships and consoles I meant to equip my other toons with before one of their patched broke my game.

    Client-side mail storage with game attachments is too easy to hack and exploit.
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • aarons9aarons9 Member Posts: 961
    edited May 2013
    when it comes down to it.. here is what is ridiculous..
    100 extra doffs are 725 zen.. its not even account wide.. just one char..
    4 extra chars are 1065 zen.. you get 400 doffs with 4 extra chars.. plus bank space they have as well.
    im sure 4 extra chars take up way more room then some attachments in an email.

    see where im going with this.. the cost of doffs are outrageous.. specially since you need 100s of them to complete SB projects.

    100 doff slot should be 100 zen.. they should give you a 1000 doff option for 1000 zen..

    id be all over that.. prob on more then one char.

    maybe they need to make an account wide 1000 attachment email option too? like the EC cap inc?

    i hate that they make this game into a chore where i have to log in 12 chars to move doffs around to donate them.. its not like im not going to have 500 doffs.. they are going to be 5 chars instead in my mailbox.
    [12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
    [12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
  • elessymelessym Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lordmalak1 wrote: »

    Client-side mail storage with game attachments is too easy to hack and exploit.

    It's a joke. They did something equally stupid in Neverwinter.
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,985 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I was about to sugest doing a few Fleet Missions, that will dry up your DOffs.
  • xcom43xcom43 Member Posts: 723 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I try to keep as much junk out of my mail as possible.Unless an item is worth saving and not worth taking up bank slot sure mail system is good idea but all so a bad idea as well i seen so many complaints about people accidentally deleting the mail they where saving.

    Most of the time you get any thing it is complete junk.Any thing that is uncommon drops or common is worth selling at the vendor way fill up the mail system with uncommon items or common.

    And like i said i would under stand if it was some thing like Mk XI or XII very rare or rare items.they are worth keeping some times.:D

    I really hate hearing that little bleeping sound that the mail system makes.
    The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.
  • donutsmasherdonutsmasher Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    kirisee wrote: »
    No, it should be noted that the only ones saying its not an exploit are the exploiters.

    Still can't see how you just can't plain see that it was supposed to be a "Mail System" not a "Personal Bank System"...


    Simple answer. Because they designed the system to allow me to send mails, with attachments, to myself. Not to another character on the same account, but specifically to myself.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sig by my better half.
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    tarrennis wrote: »
    I'm outraged at a 100 mail attachment limit per character. If Cryptic means to make it 100 mail attachments per account, that is insane! Why should anyone buy a character slot to further dilute their own mail storage?

    Why can't someone official make an official comment giving the specifics of the limit and its intent?

    You shouldn't buy character slots now; spreading the attachment limit out over multiple characters actually makes it better to create Silver mule accounts with one doffer/banker captain each. I spelled it out here at post #115. It's part of why I suggested a per character slot limit later on; if you actually got MORE per character slot rather than LESS... yeah. :rolleyes:
    suiksaga wrote: »
    I can tell you the reason it is a stealth nerf is because they know it would of blown up far worse then it already has otherwise and people are still busy trying to pay their new romulan alt to realize what is going on.

    But some that have notice somewhat think it is a bug that they are working on like the real mail deletion bug that is happening at the same time right now.

    Oh, I am pretty sure it was intentional, I'd just like to pretend that the devs thought things out a little better than that. Then again, it is a US based company and we aren't always that great about thinking about broader implications of the things we do over here...
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • lordhavelocklordhavelock Member Posts: 2,248 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I don't like the fact that they Ninja Nerfed Mail Storage.

    Especially since regular storage is so limited. I've purchased all I can. And I'm still low for physical items, to say nothing of the "needed" space for things like BOffs with special traits, or DOffs.


    Please change it back, Cryptic.

    You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
  • eklinaareklinaar Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Shame on Cryptic for making this a stealth nerf. If you're going to nerf something this important, put it in the patch notes. Players always find out, and then you just look bad for hiding it in the first place.

    Now, I'd like to offer a constructive analysis of the situation. The reason so many players use the mail system to store excess DOffs is because of the DOff distribution problem with fleet starbases. I farm DOff recruitments heavily because I am the ONLY person in my fleet actively contributing significant numbers of DOffs to the starbase. However, because of the inequality in the random distribution of DOffs vs the requirements for starbase projects, I end up with thousands, yes, THOUSANDS of excess science and tactical DOffs. Since they're worth nothing on the Exchange, and there are the occasional projects I can run that use just these, I save all these so I can fill up those projects instantly. The core problem here is that starbases require far fewer science and tactical DOffs than are randomly created, and far more security and medical DOffs than are randomly created.

    Yes, using mail as storage is silly and is borderline exploitative. We shouldn't do it, but we shouldn't HAVE to do it because of poorly balanced mechanics. I would be 100% in support of a mail item attachment limit if you simultaneously fixed the DOff distribution problem. Don't nerf mail attachments, which players are simply using as a workaround to this imbalanced mechanic, until you've fixed the reason players are flooding the mail system with thousands of DOffs in the first place.

    A fairly simple change has already been proposed. Instead of requiring 30 tactical and 30 security DOffs for the most common starbase projects, change the requirement to 60 tactical or security DOffs. Players will quickly eat through their thousands of stored tactical and science DOffs in a couple weeks, and we will no longer have a reason to keep flooding the mail system with DOffs. Do this, and I predict most players will be okay with a mail attachment limit (though the OP's concerns about trolling by flooding someone's mail with worthless attachments is still legitimate).
  • bootybootsbootyboots Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Just to recap:

    The nerf is intentional and is account wide (meaning no more than 100 stacks in mailbox, in total)

    Most of us agree that the magic mail was exploitative; however we had no viable alternative since the starbase doff problem has been ignored for months and getting worse (even more now since this stealth nerf).

    Mailbox spamming another player is a concern, however mail from non-friends and fleet can be blocked.

    Cryptic reports that returned exchange items will eventually make it to you even if you are at the cap. However I am skeptical given that mails containing items that are accidentally deleted aren't returned to you despite the tool-tip that says otherwise.

    Lots of us have taken issue that this wasn't addressed in the patch notes and the only response from Cryptic is from a 3rd-party service saying to buy more slots. This comes off as both contemptuous and naive of the actual players and how they are playing the game.

    Remember Cryptic, if a large segment of the player-base is using an exploit; its because you've failed to address an issue somewhere or because the game is more enjoyable with the exploit or because not performing the exploit would put the individual player at a significant disadvantage.
    House of Sigma (channel KDFdefera for PvE requiring only KDF teams) List of KDF issues [my in-game handle @bootymcboots] (channel KDF Empire for KDF orientated discussion - still in development/growing)
  • aarons9aarons9 Member Posts: 961
    edited May 2013
    you guys are laughing and joking saying this is no big deal well it is..

    all day log i been getting emails saying my echange item has expired.. yet there is no attachment. even if i go to a mail station..


    now do i delete these emails? will i get new ones someday?

    i have many many many expensive items in the EX on multiple characters.. lock box ships. contraband in stacks.. acc2-3 weapons..

    i buy items and resell them at a higher price.. there are prices i wont go under so if the market is bad those items dont sell.. they do eventually tho.. someday..

    i have about 100m tied up right now in inventory. if it doesnt get returned to me, what then?
    [12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
    [12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Yes, they snuck this right in, didnt they? :mad:
    Mail is broken right now too; can't delete messages.

    If players have too much mail in the box it's because Cryptic is not giving players enough space. Only 10 Boffs on your 'bench' is not enough.

    AND lower the price of the doff grinder and I won't have to store them in the mail. I'll go grind them for a better one like I used to instead of sitting on them for the chance at fleet donation.
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • suiksagasuiksaga Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    At this this point it is no surprise the extent cryptic will go to cripple a game, or try to get money out of people, even if they can't get anymore out of people.

    It's a shame that they have to continue nerfing already established systems that have been in place since the game was launched just to justify a few extra sale out of the few that will by that can still buy

    And for what to TRIBBLE off the majority of the player base yet again.

    I am about at my wits end I keep throwing time and money at them but their greed is unending and being punished for trying to support my fleet is BS.
  • daedalus27daedalus27 Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Ok this patch has been an absolute disaster for me. The chronic instability has limited my ability to play and now I run into this unannounced "feature" has dramatically changed how I play the game. Doff storage is a nightmare and necessary for those advancing a starbase which demands doffs like a fat guy eats cake. You open hundreds of packs and have to sort what is needed now and what is needed later. Four hundred doff slots is far too few for serious doffers to both use for projects and to store for starbase builders.

    Switching accounts is a pain in the TRIBBLE already and I am not playing the game to spend all my time jumping from account to account as needed. This game has already made things difficult for doffing due to poor design for storage and this change just may kill it. Doffing is the one area where I felt I can contribute and this change makes the game feel more like a job if I am forced to switch and manage accounts to sort and find what I need. I could care less about the new content if it forces me to work ten times harder to help advance the fleet. When a game starts to feel like work, I tend to leave for greener pastures.

    If this is some crude method to facilitate storage sales then I will probably have to say goodbye. I don't respond to gimmicks to make me buy something that was a core feature. I can take my money and time elsewhere. Doffing/Starbase construction is the one thing that has kept me involved in STO and these changes have killed that aspect for me if there isn't a suitible replacement for what the mail was allowing in terms of doff/item storage. This change has made me sick and has me incredibly frustrated unable to enjoy anything else with this additional content.
This discussion has been closed.