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    daedalus27daedalus27 Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    WE CAN'T BUY MORE SLOTS, THEY DON'T LET US BUY MORE

    400 doff slots is the max you can get, period. Bank slots are also limited on the number of purchases. Account wide storage is very expensive and also limited.There isn't enough storage options available for purchase for what this game pushes you to do.

    Doffing is the biggest problem as the fixed number of slots are woefully inadquate during starbase construction. Opening hundreds of boxes to find those rare medical and security doffs leaves you overwhelmed with science and tactical doffs you can't deal with unless you have the mail. Add to it that a 100 mail slots is for all characters on an account so if you have 40 sales on multiple characters and they start expiring it will quickly overwhelm your mailbox denying your ability to recieve anything else.

    They cut off what has been used for many years without any warning or ability to function with the existing tools. If they allowed unlimited purchases, it may be something although it would be a blantant money grab which would make me rethink future support as what would prevent them from eliminating ships or making torpedos require purchasable ammo (shoot did I give them ideas...) Instead they cut us off at the knees without any ability to play how we have been for months and years. It dramatically changes how we will have to play the game and greatly affects fleets ability to build their starbase.
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    breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    tarrennis wrote: »
    I was strongly considering the buying the lifetime subscription during the sale. But now, due to this mail issue, I will not be purchasing the lifetime subscription. I'm not getting a monthly subscription either. I will keep playing for free only. Cryptic's ploy to get me to spend more money has caused me to not spend $199.99. Cryptic can't make unilateral, unannounced changes without angering their customers. Any changes should have been officially disclosed. Changing the mail should have been announced well in advance. Cryptic can read our posts of confusion and outrage, but refuses to respond. In any RPG, no players like being "Rail Roaded." Stealth nerfs are bad for Cryptic's bottom line.

    This, and also saved me the cost of extra character slots. I don't mind grinding dilithium and selling it for Zen, though they also make money off of that by setting dilithium costs high enough that folks are willing to pay real money to get things faster... still, they would get more out of me if they could just release a new season without borking something that was working fine for the players. Did the ability of every player to use the mail system to store doffs and lock boxes and other random items actually place any other player at a disadvantage?
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
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    elessymelessym Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Free accounts are free.

    Or we could have a sit in.

    Gimme a STO!

    STO!!

    Gimme a RAGE!

    RAGE!!

    What do we want!

    STO-RAGE!!
    STO-RAGE!!
    STO-RAGE!!
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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    lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jam3s1701 wrote: »
    I asked them on twitter and the email limit is here to stay and the delete thing is a bug being looked at

    When I asked a work round I was just told buy more slots are the mail isn't ment for storage so. . .
    -from the 'other' 100 mail limit thread

    Again, the devs are passing info about the mail system on another site instead of the OFFICIAL STO site.

    Anyone else see a pattern here ?
    :mad:
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
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    askrayaskray Member Posts: 3,329 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    -from the 'other' 100 mail limit thread

    Again, the devs are passing info about the mail system on another site instead of the OFFICIAL STO site.

    Anyone else see a pattern here ?
    :mad:

    Most likely because someone was directly tweeted and it popped up on their phone so they replied. It's a lot easier to reply that way quickly while you're out and about waiting for something (like I check my twitter when i'm pumping gas) than to load up the forums, go into the forums find things to read then read the entire thing then post. By the time I even probably read half the thread my gas would be done and I'd be off and running :P
    Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care.
    Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
    Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113


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    donutsmasherdonutsmasher Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    askray wrote: »
    Most likely because someone was directly tweeted and it popped up on their phone so they replied. It's a lot easier to reply that way quickly while you're out and about waiting for something (like I check my twitter when i'm pumping gas) than to load up the forums, go into the forums find things to read then read the entire thing then post. By the time I even probably read half the thread my gas would be done and I'd be off and running :P


    The point being we shouldn't have had to go to twitter and ask, they should have made an official post on the forums, hell it wasn't even in the patch notes. That lack of respect for customers is astounding.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sig by my better half.
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    suiksagasuiksaga Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I grow tired of the treatment from cryptic, like today we had a major upgrade project in one of my fleets asking for 1000 doff officers needed yet with this new change people in my fleet are struggling to be able to fill thanks to the limits imposed.

    Again they force people to make alt accounts or alt character slots that are jut used for hold 400 random white officers so we can have storage, I feel the greed is sickening.

    Instead of coming up with a solid system to help us with our fleet doff storage needs for projects they are trying to milk us even more by nerfing something that has been in game since release.

    All I can say is sooner or later there will be a all out outcry because they stealth nerfed this and also more and more people are catching on they will either cave a bit or make a official announcement sooner or later due to the lack of intelligent management.

    As another person stated earlier in the forums this can not be good for cryptics bottom line, in that I whole hearty agree.

    I will keep speaking up and maybe people will soon realize that crpytic is up to its old games yet again..

    Not hard considering that the mail system is broken on top of the new very crippling mail system, on my main account its horrible I have 10 characters now and 100 mail items is far from even remotely reasonable both with sales and excess doffs.
  • Options
    tarrennistarrennis Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    For the person that stated the mail is 100 attachments per account, so 33 each if 3 characters, has this been tested?

    When they say buy more bank space, not everything can be stored in the bank. Such as DOFFs or BOFFs.

    When they say people are storing too much in mail, not everything can be stored in mail. Such as Bound items. Also, it's more convenient to store commodities, samples, and repair parts in the bank where the system can use them as needed.

    I still want to know why I have to waste bank slots on Borg Neural Processors and similar items. These can be stored like Omega Marks as a number.

    I have been selling items to reduce what is stored in mail, but for each sale I get an item sold mail that further clogs my mail, and I can't delete any messages.
  • Options
    smi3thsmi3th Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Yes, this really is an outrage.

    In-game mail is the only in-game tool that allows the transfer of certain items such as duty officers and bridge officers. These items cannot be stored in bank slots.

    The idea that they would cap this without providing some other method of moving these commodities around is very insulting.

    If you are playing multiple toons (as I am) then you generate a large number of duty officers and the 100 attachment limit can fill up in a little time as 1 day. Not counting criticals, when duty officer assignments come due you can end up with 21 new duty officers all at once (actually it is even more for Romulan Characters- another 13 on top of that).

    I have paid Zen for 16 extra character slots, plus I have the three free ones, one for each faction. So at one time I could generate as much as 400 doffs at once, none of which are necessarily immediately useable. Mail is currently the only tool that can handle them, and now it is broken.

    I enjoy playing the type of game I have been playing, but mail is the only thing that has made it possible. I have spent well over 15,000 Zen in this game. I paid for it and PWE has no business telling me that I am having wrongbadfun playing it that way.

    I consider this a grievous breach of trust and it may end up ruining the game for me.

    Peet
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    lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    IIRC the feature matrix shows 'unlimited' in the email line for gold subs. Guess it isn't so unlimited anymore. I would expect a limit on this feature on F2P accounts, but we who've paid for subs and LTS'ers also get the same limit.

    Guess paying to play doesn't have any real benefit anymore.
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
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    xyrmaelineraxyrmaelinera Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    If Cryptic will not alter his course with the mail limit they will hurt him self. I can understand that they need to reduce the datastorage need, but this is the total wrong way to do it.

    what will happen on the long term
    - players will leave if frustrated from the new limits
    - players will create alt accounts for extra storage of doffs and this will be a lot accounts by the mass on useless doffs we will get
    - players wll stop buying doff packs from store if there is no way to storage the "useless" ones of the packs. selling civilin and science doffs is near useless no one need them every one has to many of them, and no one will throw them away if he has paid real money for it.

    So Cryptic IF u will keep your mail Limit than
    - increase the doffs roster that every char can hold to maybe 1000 so we have a way to increase the roster without make useless new charakters.
    - Reduce the need of Doffs for Fleet Projects,
    - throw tac/sec, sci/med, eng/ops in every project to one slot as by the embassy projects.
    - Give us a Accound Doff Holding (with double click option instant of boring drag'n'drop) for a easy transfer of doffs between charakters (maybe base 500 and expandale 9 times to max 5k).

    and make a OFFICIAL STATEMENT at THE FORUM , we are playing Star Trek Online and not Twitter Online !
  • Options
    mango6645mango6645 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    IIRC the feature matrix shows 'unlimited' in the email line for gold subs. Guess it isn't so unlimited anymore. I would expect a limit on this feature on F2P accounts, but we who've paid for subs and LTS'ers also get the same limit.

    Guess paying to play doesn't have any real benefit anymore.

    Which is why I'm done paying them. This mail thing is the last straw. I will just f2p, won't affect me that much anymore.
  • Options
    suiksagasuiksaga Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I agree giving them any more money would be foolish after every nerf they have hit us with,especially the stealth nerfs.

    I'll spend less time with this game as time goes on I can only hope the devs get their head out of their behinds before that, but I am not holding my breath.
  • Options
    felderburgfelderburg Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I've been running basically every BOff mission from the DOff system, and I have a ton of them that I store in the mail... It would be nice to have a place to put them, since this limit may hinder that...
  • Options
    breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So, patching now... hopefully we can get a mail fix and a bit of clarity now :)

    Hey, I can be optimistic sometimes :P

    Oh, and for cross reference:
    Can't delete mail ***Known issue, team is working on a fix so you can delete mail***
    Mail is going to get Fixed? (Can't delete mail) **known issue, fix incoming**
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • Options
    omegashinzonomegashinzon Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    daedalus27 wrote: »
    400 doff slots is the max you can get, period. Bank slots are also limited on the number of purchases. Account wide storage is very expensive and also limited.There isn't enough storage options available for purchase for what this game pushes you to do.

    Exactly.
    askray wrote: »
    Most likely because someone was directly tweeted and it popped up on their phone so they replied. It's a lot easier to reply that way quickly while you're out and about waiting for something (like I check my twitter when i'm pumping gas) than to load up the forums, go into the forums find things to read then read the entire thing then post. By the time I even probably read half the thread my gas would be done and I'd be off and running :P

    Hey that's a great explanation of why he did that. Now explain why no official comment or response on the forums.
    tarrennis wrote: »
    I still want to know why I have to waste bank slots on Borg Neural Processors and similar items. These can be stored like Omega Marks as a number.

    Outstanding idea. But if they believe not doing so will earn them .1% profit, I wouldn't count on it. Even if it made players happy who then proceed to earn them .5%. Welcome to the world of greed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
    So realistically, you only need to have the exact number of doffs that you need. ~leadme2kirk
  • Options
    daedalus27daedalus27 Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Complaining about these changes probably won't work given the mail system is attached to the other perfect world games and for some reason they need to limit storage there. So instead we need to try and make the best of a bad situation to remedy the disastrous changes and effects this has. At the same time it may make them some Zen (although I hate rewarding bad behavior, but we have to motivate changes). Below are 3 changes I feel would help address the lack of storage presently in the game with the present mail attachments limitations.

    1. Greatly increase stack sizes on everything. Instead of stacks of 20 or 250, make stacks up to 10k or so on bank and inventory storage. Let us store the commodities and consumables to our hearts content. As far as active use slots on characters, they can still be limited, but stuff in the cargo bay should be virtually unlimited. We still need bank slots for bound items, pets, rewards, etc. so there is still a need for storage there but freeing up some space on basic items would help things a bit.

    2. Remove the limitation on buying extra storage. If I want to have 1000 doff slots, let me have them. If I want huge bank storage for all the stuff I pull down, why are you stopping me? It is preventing me from spending cash how I want to spend it and limiting your sales. Why are you preventing me from giving you money on an area where it will have almost no impact in game for pve or pvp other than potentially providing more out of combat items? As a side note you may want to revisit pricing as making it relatively cheap will encourage sales of these items instead of making new accounts as many are suggesting is the appropriate workaround. The account bank pricing especially seems excessive and therefore less utilized than it could be.

    3. A new category of storage, RESERVE DUTY OFFICERS slots. Make a special doff roster of doffs in storage that are in your crew but unavailable for active missions or duty officer assignments. It is a doff bank that can be used for storage of doffs or (and I hope you would allow this) pull officers off of it for starbase construction or other missions where officers are expended like other commodities are used. Given the limitations on these storage slots, they should be cheaper than regular doff slots say 250 or 300 Zen per 100 slots. It would provide a storage solution as well as increase sales for perfect world.

    I personally don't like having to alter my play from a flawed system that worked to the huge hassles we presently have. However if they aren't going to alter the mail limit, the very least they can do is provide avenues so that our play styles and needs are provided for in some way. This would provide an increased cash flow to perfect world as well as utility to players to deal with the changes. I hope this would be considered.
  • Options
    lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I gotta better idea:

    Put the mail limit back to the way it was pre-LoR, compress all messages with attachments into a single file on exit from mail terminal and store the file client side and generate a checksum, then store the checksum on the account server. This will free up the space on cryptic servers they seem to think they need and with a server stored checksum it should ensure the client-side stored message file doesn't get tampered with. On opening the mail from the ingame mail terminal the file is decompressed on the client computer provided the checksums match.

    So what if it takes a couple of minutes to decompress a large stored file on the clients computer, the solution would be to decrease the size of the file, and totally in the control of the player.
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • Options
    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    IIRC the feature matrix shows 'unlimited' in the email line for gold subs. Guess it isn't so unlimited anymore. I would expect a limit on this feature on F2P accounts, but we who've paid for subs and LTS'ers also get the same limit.

    Guess paying to play doesn't have any real benefit anymore.
    Did it EVER say unlimited attachments? I think not....

    The mail system was designed before Doffs were added to the game. The devs simply didn't think people would go and actually stuff hundreds of doffs into the mail. Otherwise they probably would have done this sooner...

    I have to agree with the idea of creating an account bank for doffs. that sounds very useful, and less annoying than mailing things to myself.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • Options
    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    I gotta better idea:

    Put the mail limit back to the way it was pre-LoR, compress all messages with attachments into a single file on exit from mail terminal and store the file client side and generate a checksum, then store the checksum on the account server. This will free up the space on cryptic servers they seem to think they need and with a server stored checksum it should ensure the client-side stored message file doesn't get tampered with. On opening the mail from the ingame mail terminal the file is decompressed on the client computer provided the checksums match.

    So what if it takes a couple of minutes to decompress a large stored file on the clients computer, the solution would be to decrease the size of the file, and totally in the control of the player.
    That wouldn't work....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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    lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    That wouldn't work....

    I didn't say it was a perfect idea as portability of messages would be lost, but anything ATM would be an improvement. The mail system is so hosed right now I'm afraid to even open it up or post anything on the exchange because stuff might get lost.
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • Options
    l0cutus359l0cutus359 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    I didn't say it was a perfect idea as portability of messages would be lost, but anything ATM would be an improvement. The mail system is so hosed right now I'm afraid to even open it up or post anything on the exchange because stuff might get lost.

    Agreed, I havent sold a thing. I am waiting for this to get fixed.

    The Ninja Nerfs with each new season is getting beyond old.
    Locutus

    Delirium Tremens
    Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
    http://dtfleet.com/
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    getabigdogupyougetabigdogupyou Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Unlimited mailacess for life means unlimited not unlimited until someone decides its inconveniant for them...If its a storage issue make the F2P horde pay to store extra mail or allow lifers more bankslots and makedoffs stackable by class I have maxed out my bankslots across several alts and having my mailnerfed is second only to the pinappleenema the serve in adam sandlers version of hell
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    dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Just make unlimited mail a benefit of LTS, that'd work for me. ;)
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    l0cutus359l0cutus359 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Just make unlimited mail a benefit of LTS, that'd work for me. ;)

    I agree. I was considering getting a LTS, but then this nerf happened.

    But now, i may suspend my Gold membership and just upgrade the specific options I need and not fill as invested to the game and lack of development process and outages.

    Thanks
    Locutus

    Delirium Tremens
    Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
    http://dtfleet.com/
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    elessymelessym Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Did it EVER say unlimited attachments? I think not....

    Since they didn't qualify it with an exclusion, unlimited included unlimited attachments.
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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    l0cutus359l0cutus359 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    elessym wrote: »
    Since they didn't qualify it with an exclusion, unlimited included unlimited attachments.

    One of my big issues....they didnt disclose/publish the change before release
    Locutus

    Delirium Tremens
    Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
    http://dtfleet.com/
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    daedalus27daedalus27 Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    If we take the twitter announcement as final, the 100 mail attachment limit is here to stay. We then need to find solutions to the storage issue many of us have. I would prefer the old limit was still in place, but if that is out, the 3 part solution I posted above would help meet the players storage needs while offering perfect world additional revenue. I hesitate to call it a win-win as players are forced to pay for something that was given, but at least it motivates the change on the developers end.
  • Options
    jule71jule71 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The only way to survive in STO, TRADE!!!!
    Even now that is not possible!!!
    It is a shame that it has come to this, shame for all the other players, that try to survive in the EC-world!!!
    Because this is the only way to make some EC's

    In other words, The crisis is gonna happen in STO allso!!!

    I have a mailbox that does'nt DELETE the old ones, try to fix that, for a change!!!!
  • Options
    atomictikiatomictiki Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    l0cutus359 wrote: »
    One of my big issues....they didnt disclose/publish the change before release

    This is to be expected of Cryptic. How many undocumented large nerfs have they pushed out?

    They have a serious problem in communicating negative changes to the playerbase... as in never communicating about it until it becomes a problem, waiting a few days then issuing a half-assed apology -- with, if you're lucky, some small changes to shut up enough people to gloss over the initial nerf.

    They haven't learned a thing. Or, more importantly, Stahl hasn't learned a thing from his past mistakes.
    Leave nerfing to the professionals.
This discussion has been closed.