I'm partial to "Quark's Bar" myself, for the RP forum :P
Honestly like Quark's Bar more than Captains table as well.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
That's why one of you lot should take the time to make an Index Sticky. You are welcome to copy/paste the code off this and use it as the foundation. It may need a check over to see if any of the threads linked have been outdated in the past 9 months, and whether any new ones have been posted around the forum.
I have done post indexes before on other forums, for my own topics.
Let me tell you why I'm not volunteering to do it here.
One, it takes a lot of time to update the index with new posts/threads and culling out the outdated ones. You have to find them, get the link, and update the index post by hand. It's a lot of work even if you're just updating an index for stuff you personally post, let alone what everyone else posts here on a daily basis.
I have enough work just being a Mod.
Two, it's ridiculously easy for links to get broken for various reasons.
Three, if the person who created the index quits updating it, then it's dead. Then some other poor soul is stuck creating a new one. Same deal with the actual posts/guides that you link to. Rinse and repeat.
Four, the forum itself IS an index, and it's a lot more efficient than anything you or I could cobble together by hand. It just needs to be organized correctly and that's what we're talking about right now.
If a future version of the forum software allows users to create a "Favorites" list of threads that they can share, that would be way better.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Honestly like Quark's Bar more than Captains table as well.
I'm good either way.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
In regards to the "BOFFs, Captains, classes, traits, powers, mechanics, etc." subforum, it turns out we should probably separate this into Space and Ground -- like the content team and separated faction-gameplay forums, this would help the systems team.
Thoughts?
the truth is, you could stick anything that will fit in any of your equipment slots and do any of the pve just fine. you don't have to actually make good builds, have good equipment, and create good synergy unless your trying to build a ship that will do well in pvp. so thats why then best mechanics, tactics, and build advice ends up there. best part is, everything that works in pvp will work great in pve, except maybe a sci/sci build to control other player ships.
i haven't seen much in the other sections that is supposed to address these things that i would call good advice, good information or good builds. its all in the pvp section, because you cant get away with sub par wile pvping. the best information is just there.
if the devs arent looking in the pvp section to find out what people are talking about regarding these things, they are looking at the wrong places. i know at least borticus checks the place out.
I can empathize with that, but if the content team is requesting it and it makes it easier for them to find and act on feedback, we should consider keeping it separate. In the end, players are posting in the feedback forums so that the devs read and consider their feedback -- if this makes it easier for them to do that, it's a win-win for all
====
For the RP Subforum, what would you think of "Captain's Table"?
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
those separate sections are going to be dead zones. im sure they would like to be in charge of monitoring sections that hardly get any posts and almost no traffic. combined they should get a good amount of traffic and an amount of threads created that will still be pretty easy to keep up with.
i think the forum setup needs as much thought to dev preference, as to how many redundant niche sections that would create, and how little that will actually help players, trying to connect player questions with player traffic that can answer those questions. it all sounds like a product ruined by comity wanting arbitrary things, because thats what they like, but not what their consumer would like. if theres to many redundant sections, the forum becomes useless.
Information and Discussion
.Game News
.Release Notes
.Dev Tracker
.Star Trek Online General Discussion and Feedback
.Ten Forward
..Role Play Central
Feedback
.PVE Story Gameplay
.PVE Qued content Gameplay
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Space and Ships Game Mechanics Help
.Ground and Captain Game Mechanics Help
.Duty Officer System
.Reputation and Fleet Holdings Systems
.Controls and User Interface
.The Art of Star Trek Online
.C-Store and Promotions
ditch the academy too, the game mechanics section should cover everything. the qued content is all basically cross faction, and so is a lot of the story content. really, very little of the story will be unique per factions going forward. the fetured episodes are cross faction, and now the cardasian sector is cross faction. only the kdf war and rom sector missions for fed are unique, the fek'lar and house of martok missions for kdf is unique, and the romulan up to 10, and then beyond that a bit is unique for romulans. how could you possibly justify a section for just the fek'lar and martok missions?
.Game News
.Release Notes
.Dev Tracker
.Star Trek Online General Discussion and Feedback
.Ten Forward
..Role Play Central
Feedback
.PVE Story Gameplay
.PVE Qued content Gameplay
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Space and Ships Game Mechanics Help
.Ground and Captain Game Mechanics Help
.Duty Officer System
.Reputation and Fleet Holdings Systems
.Controls and User Interface
.The Art of Star Trek Online
.C-Store and Promotions
Frankly, I'd even say PvE Story/Q'd content could be merged, but >shrug< either way, I love this set up. Streamlined. Easy to find things/know where to put things.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
In regards to the "BOFFs, Captains, classes, traits, powers, mechanics, etc." subforum, it turns out we should probably separate this into Space and Ground -- like the content team and separated faction-gameplay forums, this would help the systems team.
Thoughts?
I don't think it makes sense to separate Space and Ground. It seems like a needless irritation for the players, having to divide their questions in two separate threads, when they ask for help/discuss/suggest ect.
New suggestion
Information Network
.News
.Dev Tracker
.Update Notes
.C-Store and Promotions
Feedback & Discussions
.General Discussion (Discussion of news, dev blogs, general stuff not covered by other sections)
.PvE Gameplay (Classes, Ships, BOFFs, traits, powers, builds, mechanics etc.)
.PvE Queued Content (STFs, Fleet Actions, calendar, events, non-story missions)
.Story Missions (All three factions, it is what makes the most sense, despite separate developers in charge of different faction missions, ideally players could label their threads with prefixes of [ROM][FED][KDF] designating the type of content in the thread, some forums already have this feature implemented, but setting it manually can work too)
.Duty Officer System
.Fleet Holdings System
.Reputation System
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Controls and User Interface
.Art, Graphics and Sound
Off Duty
.Ten Forward
..Role Play Central
Fleet Administrative Station
.Starbase One
.Qo'noS
.New Romulus
The Foundry for Star Trek Online
.The Foundry For Star Trek Online - Discussion & Feedback
.The Foundry For Star Trek Online - Mission Database
.The Foundry for Star Trek Online - Bug Reports
These are make-or-break paradigms for the forum reorg as I see it.
Right now, we have people posting similar topics in different subforums... basically wherever they want based on what they think the subforum is about.
"Oh, I'm posting my Uber-BoP build... it belongs in the Klingon Shipyard!"
I disagree.
We've got people posting Guides, Tips, and Builds in Feedback subforums. Frankly, they don't belong there.
It strikes me that these forums are mostly intended by PWE/Cryptic to be focused on Feedback first, Cryptic-to-Community communication second, and Player-to-Player third.
"Feedback" is not Player-to-Player. It's Community-to-Cryptic. Off-topic discussions that aren't "Community-to-Cryptic" don't belong in Feedback subforums, IMO. This is where the Devs go to find specific feedback and it shouldn't be cluttered up with anything that isn't a Community-to-Cryptic issue.
By the same token, we do need a few subforums that are more Community-Focused.
There's also the fact that players are going to post in the first available subforum that seems to fit what they want to talk about, even if it doesn't. This is why order of subforums, naming of subforums, and description of subforums is very important.
Community-Focused subforums are either Player-to-Player or Cryptic-to-Player communication. It should be clear that these are not intended to be monitored by the Devs for Gameplay feedback. Mods like me should be looking at these for feedback threads/individual posts and relocating them where they need to go.
The Academy was always intended to be for Player-to-Player communication, for example. This is where all of those guides, builds, and tips ought to be put. I concede that we might need to break out "child" forums for various subtypes of "helps". This is a very specific kind of Player-to-Player communication and general discussion topics don't belong here. Questions that only Cryptic can answer belong in feedback subforums.
If you pull out the Academy, where will all of that Player-to-Player stuff go? Cluttering up a feedback subforum.
People who are serious about feedback should seek out an appropriate Feedback subforum. And the Mods should be looking in these subforums for off-topic threads and relocating those.
Now perhaps I'm wrong about this. Maybe it's okay to lump Cryptic-Focused and Community-focused threads together into related subjects. Well then, if that's the case we should get serious about reorganizing it like that. Lose the idea of "Feedback" and "Discussion" subforums and make it all topical. Maybe encourage people to tag their subject lines as [Feedback] and [Discussion], to help the Devs find what they're looking for.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Okay, if we accept the paradigm that subforums should be topically-oriented and that it's okay to mix feedback (Dev-focused) and discussion (Community-focused) as long as the topics are specific enough, I have a more radical proposal to make.
A Topical Taxonomy
Information [Cryptic-to-Community]
. News
. Release Notes
. Dev Tracker
Discussion, Feedback, and Support [Community-to-Cryptic, Community-to-Community]
. Ten Forward (General Discussion)
.. Role-Play
. Powers and Mechanics (Feedback and Discussion)
.. Space (PvE)
.. Space (PvP)
.. Ground (PvE)
.. Ground (PvP)
.. Captains and Bridge Officers
. PvE Gameplay
.. STF's
.. Fleet Actions, PvE Queues, and Events
.. Featured Episodes and Cross-Faction Content
.. Builds
. PvP Gameplay
.. Maps and Arenas
.. PvP Queues and Events
.. Builds
. Federation Discussion
.. Federation Content (Missions & Episodes)
.. Federation Fleets
. Klingon Discussion
.. Klingon Content (Missions & Episodes)
.. Klingon Fleets
. Romulan Discussion
.. Romulan Content (Missions & Episodes)
.. Romulan Fleets
. Shipyard (Feedback about Stats, Features, Equipment, and Art)
.. Federation Ships
.. Klingon Ships
.. Romulan Ships
.. Cross-Faction Ships
. Duty Officer and Commendation System
. Fleet Holdings and Reputation System
. Controls and User Interface
. Star Trek Online Art
. The Foundry
. Technical Support (Support Issues not covered by another topic)
.. PC and Connectivity Issues
.. Graphical Issues
.. Bugs
. C-Store, Lobi Store, Vendors, and Promotions
Test Servers [Cryptic-to-Community, Community-to-Cryptic]
. Tribble
.. Discussion and Feedback
.. Release Notes and Bug Reports
. Redshirt
.. Discussion and Feedback
.. Release Notes and Bug Reports
Feel free to tear it apart.
You'll notice a few things about this.
One, I got rid of the Academy. Guides and questions would belong in specific topic areas.
Two, liberal use of "child" sub-fora.
Three, "Powers and Mechanics" has been separated out into its own group; all of those technical balance questions, feedback, and debates would go in there.
Four, builds go in either PvE or PvP Gameplay since they tend to be specific to one or the other and because the scope of builds includes ships, skills, gear, and bridge officers.
Five, all Faction-specific gameplay and discussion is grouped per-Faction, with the exception of ships.
Six, the Shipyard is no longer about builds or gameplay mechanics (which get covered in other topics) but rather feedback about specific ships and ship equipment.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Okay, if we accept the paradigm that subforums should be topically-oriented and that it's okay to mix feedback (Dev-focused) and discussion (Community-focused) as long as the topics are specific enough, I have a more radical proposal to make.
A Topical Taxonomy
Information [Cryptic-to-Community]
. News
. Release Notes
. Dev Tracker
Discussion, Feedback, and Support [Community-to-Cryptic, Community-to-Community]
. Ten Forward (General Discussion)
.. Role-Play
. Powers and Mechanics (Feedback and Discussion)
.. Space (PvE)
.. Space (PvP)
.. Ground (PvE)
.. Ground (PvP)
.. Captains and Bridge Officers
. PvE Gameplay
.. STF's
.. Fleet Actions, PvE Queues, and Events
.. Featured Episodes and Cross-Faction Content
.. Builds
. PvP Gameplay
.. Maps and Arenas
.. PvP Queues and Events
.. Builds
. Federation Discussion
.. Federation Content (Missions & Episodes)
.. Federation Fleets
. Klingon Discussion
.. Klingon Content (Missions & Episodes)
.. Klingon Fleets
. Romulan Discussion
.. Romulan Content (Missions & Episodes)
.. Romulan Fleets
. Shipyard (Feedback about Stats, Features, Equipment, and Art)
.. Federation Ships
.. Klingon Ships
.. Romulan Ships
.. Cross-Faction Ships
. Duty Officer and Commendation System
. Fleet Holdings and Reputation System
. Controls and User Interface
. Star Trek Online Art
. The Foundry
. Technical Support (Support Issues not covered by another topic)
.. PC and Connectivity Issues
.. Graphical Issues
.. Bugs
. C-Store, Lobi Store, Vendors, and Promotions
Test Servers [Cryptic-to-Community, Community-to-Cryptic]
. Tribble
.. Discussion and Feedback
.. Release Notes and Bug Reports
. Redshirt
.. Discussion and Feedback
.. Release Notes and Bug Reports
Feel free to tear it apart.
You'll notice a few things about this.
One, I got rid of the Academy. Guides and questions would belong in specific topic areas.
Two, liberal use of "child" sub-fora.
Three, "Powers and Mechanics" has been separated out into its own group; all of those technical balance questions, feedback, and debates would go in there.
Four, builds go in either PvE or PvP Gameplay since they tend to be specific to one or the other and because the scope of builds includes ships, skills, gear, and bridge officers.
Five, all Faction-specific gameplay and discussion is grouped per-Faction, with the exception of ships.
Six, the Shipyard is no longer about builds or gameplay mechanics (which get covered in other topics) but rather feedback about specific ships and ship equipment.
I'd like to shoot for less forums than we have now, as things are already too spread out Subforums will be limited to PvP Boot Camp and the Role Play subforums, for now.
Community-Focused subforums are either Player-to-Player or Cryptic-to-Player communication. It should be clear that these are not intended to be monitored by the Devs for Gameplay feedback. Mods like me should be looking at these for feedback threads/individual posts and relocating them where they need to go.
I don't think this approach you've outlined is viable, it's far too clinical and results in an abundance of redundant subforums as well as making it more difficult for the players and devs alike.
Besides feedback from Players to Cryptic, is better for Cryptic and the players, if it is discussed first among the community and "screened" for insanity and drivel. Popular/well discussed ideas will gain more traction and end up being more likely to be viewed and considered by Cryptic, IMHO.
The Academy was always intended to be for Player-to-Player communication, for example. This is where all of those guides, builds, and tips ought to be put. I concede that we might need to break out "child" forums for various subtypes of "helps". This is a very specific kind of Player-to-Player communication and general discussion topics don't belong here. Questions that only Cryptic can answer belong in feedback subforums.
If you pull out the Academy, where will all of that Player-to-Player stuff go? Cluttering up a feedback subforum.
Again entirely too clinical, I also think it's in error viewing it as clutter. There will be questions posed by players, that is unavoidable, but there will also be better feedback from the more concentrated discussions possible in a less wide spread forum. People will be able to focus on fewer but deeper topics.
Now perhaps I'm wrong about this. Maybe it's okay to lump Cryptic-Focused and Community-focused threads together into related subjects. Well then, if that's the case we should get serious about reorganizing it like that. Lose the idea of "Feedback" and "Discussion" subforums and make it all topical. Maybe encourage people to tag their subject lines as [Feedback] and [Discussion], to help the Devs find what they're looking for.
While Prefixes are good for certain categories, I don't see the benefit in this clinical divide between Feedback and Discussions. It overcomplicates the forum needlessly.
I'd like to shoot for less forums than we have now, as things are already too spread out Subforums will be limited to PvP Boot Camp and the Role Play subforums, for now.
Besides feedback from Players to Cryptic, is better for Cryptic and the players, if it is discussed first among the community and "screened" for insanity and drivel. Popular/well discussed ideas will gain more traction and end up being more likely to be viewed and considered by Cryptic, IMHO.
I don't disagree with that. But how do you make the ounce of gold easier for the Devs to find when the dross is measured in metric tons?
If topics were consolidated into single-threaded conversations, I would agree that the more discussed ideas would float to the top. But duplicate threads abound.
There's also a certain level of tension between two not entirely aligned priorities.
Cryptic's priority is to mine the forums for feedback that can be used to improve the game.
The Community's priority is to voice their opinions, some of which are either mutually exclusive or compete for attention.
I'm trying to get to where the balance point is and what works best for both Cryptic and the Community. I can honestly say that I don't know.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Discussion and Feedback
. Ten Forward (General Discussion)
.. Role-Play
. Space Powers and Mechanics
. Ground Powers and Mechanics
. Captains and Bridge Officers
. Shipyard
. Missions, Events, and Episodes
. PvE Gameplay
. PvP Gameplay
.. PvP Boot Camp
. Duty Officer and Commendation System
. Fleet Holdings and Reputation System
. Federation Discussion
. Federation Fleets
. Klingon Discussion
. Klingon Fleets
. Romulan Discussion
. Romulan Fleets
. Controls and User Interface
. Star Trek Online Art
. The Foundry
. C-Store, Lobi Store, Vendors, and Promotions
Technical Support
. PC and Connectivity Issues
. Graphical Issues
. Bug Reports
Test Servers
. Tribble Discussion and Feedback
. Tribble Release Notes and Bug Reports
. Redshirt Discussion and Feedback
. Redshirt Release Notes and Bug Reports
Better?
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
in regards to the "BOFFs, Captains, classes, traits, powers, mechanics, etc." subforum, it turns out we should probably separate this into Space and Ground -- like the content team and separated faction-gameplay forums, this would help the systems team.
The content team wants Space and Ground, and the Systems Team wants Fed/klin/rom separate sections.
What constitutes "Federation Gameplay" that the Systems team wants separate from "Klingon Gameplay" and "Romulan Gameplay"? Is it story missions? Uniforms? Ships? player races?
.C-Store and Promotions
.PvE Core Gameplay (Classes, BOFFs, traits, powers, mechanics etc.)
.Shipyard (Ships, consoles, ship weapons ect)
.PvE Non-Story Missions (STFs, Fleet Actions, calendar, events, ect.)
.PvE Story Missions (Players could label their threads with prefixes of [ROM][FED][KDF] designating the faction it is related to)
.Duty Officer System
.Starbase System
.Reputation System
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Controls and User Interface
.Art, Graphics and Sound
Off Duty
.Ten Forward (Offtopic)
..Role Play Central (Roleplay)
Fleet Administrative Station
.Starbase One
.Qo'noS
.New Romulus
The Foundry for Star Trek Online
.The Foundry For Star Trek Online - Feedback & Bug Reports
.The Foundry For Star Trek Online - Mission Database
Dunno about how to organize the forums, but a small suggesstion I have had in mind for some time now is the constant complains in some threads by people telling "The devs don't see this, the devs don't know this etc etc".
You should add a function that everytime a dev have visited a thread, the thread should have a marking on it (or something) That way everybody know that you have seen the thread and recieved the information even if a reply is not necessary.
Dunno about how to organize the forums, but a small suggesstion I have had in mind for some time now is the constant complains in some threads by people telling "The devs don't see this, the devs don't know this etc etc".
You should add a function that everytime a dev have visited a thread, the thread should have a marking on it (or something) That way everybody know that you have seen the thread and recieved the information even if a reply is not necessary.
Just my 2 cents
I would assume this is coming back as the NW forums have this as well and it's pretty much the same update (obviously different coloring)
EDIT: Actually Brandon actually said they are for sure coming hehe
You may have noticed that Neverwinter has recently upgraded to a newer version of vBulletin (our forum software) -- STO will be making the upgrade in the future. We know that your forum persona is important to you, so we want to make sure you know everything that you should do before the change, as well as what some of the new features are:
You will need to re-upload your signature and avatar. VB4 uses a separate database, so you'll need to add these back in once the upgrade is complete.
You will want to save your private messages as they may be lost in the upgrade.
You will want to bookmark any threads you are subscribed to as subscriptions may be lost in the upgrade.
You will be able to report posts for breaking the community rules. This system worked well in the past, and with VB4, this feature will return.
EDIT 2: Unless you mean actually visited a thread, that tends to be an issue because the dev's do read almost every thread (I know Brandon does for sure hehe), and it'd clutter things up. Plus then people would take that as they can post there and a dev would notice which is highly inacurrate.
Now I'm going back to what i was doing that doesn't require my brain lol.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Is it really necessary for "Star Trek Online Discussion" and "General Community Feedback" to be separate? Because they appear to host essentially the same types of threads.
In regards to the "BOFFs, Captains, classes, traits, powers, mechanics, etc." subforum, it turns out we should probably separate this into Space and Ground -- like the content team and separated faction-gameplay forums, this would help the systems team.
If we look at the two Federation and Klingon Gameplay forums objectively, they are pretty much unambiguous in their content. It's topics which would be covered by either "The Shipyard", "The Captain + BOFF" section or PvE missions either story or non story.
Does it really make sense for the Content and system teams, to have separate Faction Gameplay forums when the topics are better categorized under specific content types, such as ships, or such as the classes/captain?
Does it really make sense to have the arbitrary "Ground" vs "Space"?
.C-Store and Promotions
.PvE Core Gameplay (Classes, BOFFs, traits, powers, mechanics etc.)
.Shipyard (Ships, consoles, ship weapons ect)
.PvE Non-Story Missions (STFs, Fleet Actions, calendar, events, ect.)
.PvE Story Missions (Players could label their threads with prefixes of [ROM][FED][KDF] designating the faction it is related to)
.Duty Officer System
.Starbase System
.Reputation System
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Controls and User Interface
.Art, Graphics and Sound
I would not put C-Store and Promotions at the top of the list. Doesn't necessarily have to be at the bottom, but it shouldn't be all the way at the top.
I'm on board with "Core Gameplay" if we drop the PvE off the front. Core Gameplay should be about common systems.
I don't think a division between story and non-story missions will really help the Dev team, nor provide much benefit for the Community.
You've dropped the faction-specific forums entirely and per BranFlakes the Dev team wants to see them. I do, too, although I do see your point that they may not be entirely necessary.
You've also dropped the Space/Ground divisions. Based on the fact that Space and Ground mechanics, look and feel, combat, and missions are very different, I see why the Devs would want those called out. Might make sense to have a "Core Space Gameplay" and a "Core Ground Gameplay".
Based on how they work, the Fleet Advancement and the Reputation systems both work alike and the same Devs are responsible for them. I see no point in separating Starbases and Reputation into different areas, but I'm open to any insight that I might be overlooking.
Finally, you've completely dropped any kind of "catchall" feedback forum. I think we need that.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I like most of aexrael's suggestions outside of the Feedback and Discussion heading, and I'm even on-board with some of those.
I would not put C-Store and Promotions at the top of the list. Doesn't necessarily have to be at the bottom, but it shouldn't be all the way at the top.
I'm on board with "Core Gameplay" if we drop the PvE off the front. Core Gameplay should be about common systems.
I don't think a division between story and non-story missions will really help the Dev team, nor provide much benefit for the Community.
You've dropped the faction-specific forums entirely and per BranFlakes the Dev team wants to see them. I do, too, although I do see your point that they may not be entirely necessary.
You've also dropped the Space/Ground divisions. Based on the fact that Space and Ground mechanics, look and feel, combat, and missions are very different, I see why the Devs would want those called out. Might make sense to have a "Core Space Gameplay" and a "Core Ground Gameplay".
Based on how they work, the Fleet Advancement and the Reputation systems both work alike and the same Devs are responsible for them. I see no point in separating Starbases and Reputation into different areas, but I'm open to any insight that I might be overlooking.
Finally, you've completely dropped any kind of "catchall" feedback forum. I think we need that.
You're right that the c-store section doesn't really feel appropriate at the top, it was really only listed there due to starting with C, but alpha sorting felt inappropriate.
About the space/ground division, it in part makes the Shipyard redundant then. It may be better to forego the shipyard section and brand the two sections Core Gameplay Ground and Space respectively as suggested.
Regarding separation of starbases, doffs and reputation, that was due to the Systems team requesting it be setup that way, tough given the low traffic, it probably doesn't make sense to separate them, since it should be easy enough to pickup the relevant threads for anyone browsing the forum.
Either way it presents two alternatives.
A) Feedback & Discussions
.Core Gameplay Ground (Classes, ground BOFFs, traits, powers, ground items etc.)
.Core Gameplay Space (Ships, ship items, traits, space BOFFs, powers ect.)
.Core Gameplay Other (Duty Officers, Starbases, Reputations)
.Missions (Journal Story Missions, STFs, Fleet Actions, calendar events, ect.)
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Zen-Store and Promotions
.Controls and User Interface
.Art, Graphics and Sound
Feedback & Discussions
.Core Gameplay Ground (Classes, ground BOFFs, traits, powers, ground items etc.)
.Core Gameplay Space (Ships, ship items, traits, space BOFFs, powers ect)
.Core Gameplay Other (Duty Officers, Starbases, Reputations)
.Missions (STFs, Fleet Actions, calendar events, ect.)
.Federation Gameplay (Journal story missions, ...?)
.Klingon Gameplay (Journal story missions, ...?)
.Rumulan Gameplay (Journal story missions, ...?)
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Zen-Store and Promotions
.Controls and User Interface
.Art, Graphics and Sound
.Core Gameplay Ground (Classes, ground BOFFs, traits, powers, ground items etc.)
.Core Gameplay Space (Ships, ship items, traits, space BOFFs, powers ect)
.Core Gameplay Other (Duty Officers, Starbases, Reputations)
.Missions (STFs, Fleet Actions, calendar events, ect.)
.Federation Gameplay (Journal story missions, ...?)
.Klingon Gameplay (Journal story missions, ...?)
.Romulan Gameplay (Journal story missions, ...?)
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Zen-Store and Promotions
.Controls and User Interface
.Art, Graphics and Sound
I could get behind something like this.
They could even rename the "Core Gameplay" to something more Trekkish.
Core Gameplay Ground -> Away Team
Core Gameplay Space -> The Final Frontier
Core Gameplay Other -> Lower Decks
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I was thinking, regardless of what Branflakes/Cryptic decides on, the best course of action for any new sections is probably to hide the existing ones from regular members and establish the new sections.
Then move the first 1-2 pages worth of threads from the old sections to their new respective sections.
That way you keep the new sections free from irrelevant/offtopic posts and lay the foundation for a cleaner forum and easier search options.
Over time more threads can be moved to their respective section as Bran/mods have some downtime.
I know Legacy Of Romulus isn't out yet, but does anyone know when/if the forums are going to be updated to include Romulan gameplay, Romulan Republic Academy (don't know what else to call it) and Romulan shipyards forum sections?
I was king of surprised they didn't just go ahead and do it when they added the Romulan Fleet Recruitment and just have them temporarily locked until closer to launch.
Comments
Honestly like Quark's Bar more than Captains table as well.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
I have done post indexes before on other forums, for my own topics.
Let me tell you why I'm not volunteering to do it here.
One, it takes a lot of time to update the index with new posts/threads and culling out the outdated ones. You have to find them, get the link, and update the index post by hand. It's a lot of work even if you're just updating an index for stuff you personally post, let alone what everyone else posts here on a daily basis.
I have enough work just being a Mod.
Two, it's ridiculously easy for links to get broken for various reasons.
Three, if the person who created the index quits updating it, then it's dead. Then some other poor soul is stuck creating a new one. Same deal with the actual posts/guides that you link to. Rinse and repeat.
Four, the forum itself IS an index, and it's a lot more efficient than anything you or I could cobble together by hand. It just needs to be organized correctly and that's what we're talking about right now.
If a future version of the forum software allows users to create a "Favorites" list of threads that they can share, that would be way better.
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I'm good either way.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
the truth is, you could stick anything that will fit in any of your equipment slots and do any of the pve just fine. you don't have to actually make good builds, have good equipment, and create good synergy unless your trying to build a ship that will do well in pvp. so thats why then best mechanics, tactics, and build advice ends up there. best part is, everything that works in pvp will work great in pve, except maybe a sci/sci build to control other player ships.
i haven't seen much in the other sections that is supposed to address these things that i would call good advice, good information or good builds. its all in the pvp section, because you cant get away with sub par wile pvping. the best information is just there.
if the devs arent looking in the pvp section to find out what people are talking about regarding these things, they are looking at the wrong places. i know at least borticus checks the place out.
those separate sections are going to be dead zones. im sure they would like to be in charge of monitoring sections that hardly get any posts and almost no traffic. combined they should get a good amount of traffic and an amount of threads created that will still be pretty easy to keep up with.
i think the forum setup needs as much thought to dev preference, as to how many redundant niche sections that would create, and how little that will actually help players, trying to connect player questions with player traffic that can answer those questions. it all sounds like a product ruined by comity wanting arbitrary things, because thats what they like, but not what their consumer would like. if theres to many redundant sections, the forum becomes useless.
Information and Discussion
.Game News
.Release Notes
.Dev Tracker
.Star Trek Online General Discussion and Feedback
.Ten Forward
..Role Play Central
Feedback
.PVE Story Gameplay
.PVE Qued content Gameplay
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Space and Ships Game Mechanics Help
.Ground and Captain Game Mechanics Help
.Duty Officer System
.Reputation and Fleet Holdings Systems
.Controls and User Interface
.The Art of Star Trek Online
.C-Store and Promotions
ditch the academy too, the game mechanics section should cover everything. the qued content is all basically cross faction, and so is a lot of the story content. really, very little of the story will be unique per factions going forward. the fetured episodes are cross faction, and now the cardasian sector is cross faction. only the kdf war and rom sector missions for fed are unique, the fek'lar and house of martok missions for kdf is unique, and the romulan up to 10, and then beyond that a bit is unique for romulans. how could you possibly justify a section for just the fek'lar and martok missions?
Frankly, I'd even say PvE Story/Q'd content could be merged, but >shrug< either way, I love this set up. Streamlined. Easy to find things/know where to put things.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Ditching the Academy makes sense if it's not going to be organized properly and just a dumping ground for random questions and outdated stickies.
I don't think it makes sense to separate Space and Ground. It seems like a needless irritation for the players, having to divide their questions in two separate threads, when they ask for help/discuss/suggest ect.
New suggestion
Information Network
.News
.Dev Tracker
.Update Notes
.C-Store and Promotions
Feedback & Discussions
.General Discussion (Discussion of news, dev blogs, general stuff not covered by other sections)
.PvE Gameplay (Classes, Ships, BOFFs, traits, powers, builds, mechanics etc.)
.PvE Queued Content (STFs, Fleet Actions, calendar, events, non-story missions)
.Story Missions (All three factions, it is what makes the most sense, despite separate developers in charge of different faction missions, ideally players could label their threads with prefixes of [ROM][FED][KDF] designating the type of content in the thread, some forums already have this feature implemented, but setting it manually can work too)
.Duty Officer System
.Fleet Holdings System
.Reputation System
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Controls and User Interface
.Art, Graphics and Sound
Off Duty
.Ten Forward
..Role Play Central
Fleet Administrative Station
.Starbase One
.Qo'noS
.New Romulus
The Foundry for Star Trek Online
.The Foundry For Star Trek Online - Discussion & Feedback
.The Foundry For Star Trek Online - Mission Database
.The Foundry for Star Trek Online - Bug Reports
Support
.Gameplay issues
.Graphical Issues
.PC & Technical Issues
Test Servers
.Tribble - Announcements and Release Notes
.Tribble - Bug Reports
.Tribble - General Discussion and Feedback
.Redshirt - Announcements and Release Notes
.Redshirt - Bug Reports
.Redshirt - General Discussion and Feedback
AND
Dev-Focused/Community-Focused
These are make-or-break paradigms for the forum reorg as I see it.
Right now, we have people posting similar topics in different subforums... basically wherever they want based on what they think the subforum is about.
"Oh, I'm posting my Uber-BoP build... it belongs in the Klingon Shipyard!"
I disagree.
We've got people posting Guides, Tips, and Builds in Feedback subforums. Frankly, they don't belong there.
It strikes me that these forums are mostly intended by PWE/Cryptic to be focused on Feedback first, Cryptic-to-Community communication second, and Player-to-Player third.
"Feedback" is not Player-to-Player. It's Community-to-Cryptic. Off-topic discussions that aren't "Community-to-Cryptic" don't belong in Feedback subforums, IMO. This is where the Devs go to find specific feedback and it shouldn't be cluttered up with anything that isn't a Community-to-Cryptic issue.
By the same token, we do need a few subforums that are more Community-Focused.
There's also the fact that players are going to post in the first available subforum that seems to fit what they want to talk about, even if it doesn't. This is why order of subforums, naming of subforums, and description of subforums is very important.
Community-Focused subforums are either Player-to-Player or Cryptic-to-Player communication. It should be clear that these are not intended to be monitored by the Devs for Gameplay feedback. Mods like me should be looking at these for feedback threads/individual posts and relocating them where they need to go.
The Academy was always intended to be for Player-to-Player communication, for example. This is where all of those guides, builds, and tips ought to be put. I concede that we might need to break out "child" forums for various subtypes of "helps". This is a very specific kind of Player-to-Player communication and general discussion topics don't belong here. Questions that only Cryptic can answer belong in feedback subforums.
If you pull out the Academy, where will all of that Player-to-Player stuff go? Cluttering up a feedback subforum.
People who are serious about feedback should seek out an appropriate Feedback subforum. And the Mods should be looking in these subforums for off-topic threads and relocating those.
Now perhaps I'm wrong about this. Maybe it's okay to lump Cryptic-Focused and Community-focused threads together into related subjects. Well then, if that's the case we should get serious about reorganizing it like that. Lose the idea of "Feedback" and "Discussion" subforums and make it all topical. Maybe encourage people to tag their subject lines as [Feedback] and [Discussion], to help the Devs find what they're looking for.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
A Topical Taxonomy
Information [Cryptic-to-Community]
. News
. Release Notes
. Dev Tracker
Discussion, Feedback, and Support [Community-to-Cryptic, Community-to-Community]
. Ten Forward (General Discussion)
.. Role-Play
. Powers and Mechanics (Feedback and Discussion)
.. Space (PvE)
.. Space (PvP)
.. Ground (PvE)
.. Ground (PvP)
.. Captains and Bridge Officers
. PvE Gameplay
.. STF's
.. Fleet Actions, PvE Queues, and Events
.. Featured Episodes and Cross-Faction Content
.. Builds
. PvP Gameplay
.. Maps and Arenas
.. PvP Queues and Events
.. Builds
. Federation Discussion
.. Federation Content (Missions & Episodes)
.. Federation Fleets
. Klingon Discussion
.. Klingon Content (Missions & Episodes)
.. Klingon Fleets
. Romulan Discussion
.. Romulan Content (Missions & Episodes)
.. Romulan Fleets
. Shipyard (Feedback about Stats, Features, Equipment, and Art)
.. Federation Ships
.. Klingon Ships
.. Romulan Ships
.. Cross-Faction Ships
. Duty Officer and Commendation System
. Fleet Holdings and Reputation System
. Controls and User Interface
. Star Trek Online Art
. The Foundry
. Technical Support (Support Issues not covered by another topic)
.. PC and Connectivity Issues
.. Graphical Issues
.. Bugs
. C-Store, Lobi Store, Vendors, and Promotions
Test Servers [Cryptic-to-Community, Community-to-Cryptic]
. Tribble
.. Discussion and Feedback
.. Release Notes and Bug Reports
. Redshirt
.. Discussion and Feedback
.. Release Notes and Bug Reports
Feel free to tear it apart.
You'll notice a few things about this.
One, I got rid of the Academy. Guides and questions would belong in specific topic areas.
Two, liberal use of "child" sub-fora.
Three, "Powers and Mechanics" has been separated out into its own group; all of those technical balance questions, feedback, and debates would go in there.
Four, builds go in either PvE or PvP Gameplay since they tend to be specific to one or the other and because the scope of builds includes ships, skills, gear, and bridge officers.
Five, all Faction-specific gameplay and discussion is grouped per-Faction, with the exception of ships.
Six, the Shipyard is no longer about builds or gameplay mechanics (which get covered in other topics) but rather feedback about specific ships and ship equipment.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I'd like to shoot for less forums than we have now, as things are already too spread out
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
I don't think this approach you've outlined is viable, it's far too clinical and results in an abundance of redundant subforums as well as making it more difficult for the players and devs alike.
Besides feedback from Players to Cryptic, is better for Cryptic and the players, if it is discussed first among the community and "screened" for insanity and drivel. Popular/well discussed ideas will gain more traction and end up being more likely to be viewed and considered by Cryptic, IMHO.
Again entirely too clinical, I also think it's in error viewing it as clutter. There will be questions posed by players, that is unavoidable, but there will also be better feedback from the more concentrated discussions possible in a less wide spread forum. People will be able to focus on fewer but deeper topics.
While Prefixes are good for certain categories, I don't see the benefit in this clinical divide between Feedback and Discussions. It overcomplicates the forum needlessly.
Less is more. To use a popular phrase.
I don't disagree with that. But how do you make the ounce of gold easier for the Devs to find when the dross is measured in metric tons?
If topics were consolidated into single-threaded conversations, I would agree that the more discussed ideas would float to the top. But duplicate threads abound.
There's also a certain level of tension between two not entirely aligned priorities.
Cryptic's priority is to mine the forums for feedback that can be used to improve the game.
The Community's priority is to voice their opinions, some of which are either mutually exclusive or compete for attention.
I'm trying to get to where the balance point is and what works best for both Cryptic and the Community. I can honestly say that I don't know.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Information
. News
. Release Notes
. Dev Tracker
Discussion and Feedback
. Ten Forward (General Discussion)
.. Role-Play
. Space Powers and Mechanics
. Ground Powers and Mechanics
. Captains and Bridge Officers
. Shipyard
. Missions, Events, and Episodes
. PvE Gameplay
. PvP Gameplay
.. PvP Boot Camp
. Duty Officer and Commendation System
. Fleet Holdings and Reputation System
. Federation Discussion
. Federation Fleets
. Klingon Discussion
. Klingon Fleets
. Romulan Discussion
. Romulan Fleets
. Controls and User Interface
. Star Trek Online Art
. The Foundry
. C-Store, Lobi Store, Vendors, and Promotions
Technical Support
. PC and Connectivity Issues
. Graphical Issues
. Bug Reports
Test Servers
. Tribble Discussion and Feedback
. Tribble Release Notes and Bug Reports
. Redshirt Discussion and Feedback
. Redshirt Release Notes and Bug Reports
Better?
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I should be able to mass-move them to the forum that's best suited for them
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
It probably isn't there and one side has to give in to compromise (likely the community).
The content team wants Space and Ground, and the Systems Team wants Fed/klin/rom separate sections.
What constitutes "Federation Gameplay" that the Systems team wants separate from "Klingon Gameplay" and "Romulan Gameplay"? Is it story missions? Uniforms? Ships? player races?
Information Network
.Dev Tracker
.News
.Update Notes
Feedback & Discussions
.C-Store and Promotions
.PvE Core Gameplay (Classes, BOFFs, traits, powers, mechanics etc.)
.Shipyard (Ships, consoles, ship weapons ect)
.PvE Non-Story Missions (STFs, Fleet Actions, calendar, events, ect.)
.PvE Story Missions (Players could label their threads with prefixes of [ROM][FED][KDF] designating the faction it is related to)
.Duty Officer System
.Starbase System
.Reputation System
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Controls and User Interface
.Art, Graphics and Sound
Off Duty
.Ten Forward (Offtopic)
..Role Play Central (Roleplay)
Fleet Administrative Station
.Starbase One
.Qo'noS
.New Romulus
The Foundry for Star Trek Online
.The Foundry For Star Trek Online - Feedback & Bug Reports
.The Foundry For Star Trek Online - Mission Database
Support
.Gameplay issues
.Graphical Issues
.Technical Issues
Test Servers
.Tribble - Announcements and Release Notes
.Tribble - Feedback & Bug Reports
.Redshirt - Announcements and Release Notes
.Redshirt - Feedback & Bug Reports
Threads posted in the 'Feedback and Bug Reports' forums must be designated by either Prefix [Bug] or [Feedback].
You should add a function that everytime a dev have visited a thread, the thread should have a marking on it (or something) That way everybody know that you have seen the thread and recieved the information even if a reply is not necessary.
Just my 2 cents
I would assume this is coming back as the NW forums have this as well and it's pretty much the same update (obviously different coloring)
EDIT: Actually Brandon actually said they are for sure coming hehe
EDIT 2: Unless you mean actually visited a thread, that tends to be an issue because the dev's do read almost every thread (I know Brandon does for sure hehe), and it'd clutter things up. Plus then people would take that as they can post there and a dev would notice which is highly inacurrate.
Now I'm going back to what i was doing that doesn't require my brain lol.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
If we look at the two Federation and Klingon Gameplay forums objectively, they are pretty much unambiguous in their content. It's topics which would be covered by either "The Shipyard", "The Captain + BOFF" section or PvE missions either story or non story.
Does it really make sense for the Content and system teams, to have separate Faction Gameplay forums when the topics are better categorized under specific content types, such as ships, or such as the classes/captain?
Does it really make sense to have the arbitrary "Ground" vs "Space"?
I would not put C-Store and Promotions at the top of the list. Doesn't necessarily have to be at the bottom, but it shouldn't be all the way at the top.
I'm on board with "Core Gameplay" if we drop the PvE off the front. Core Gameplay should be about common systems.
I don't think a division between story and non-story missions will really help the Dev team, nor provide much benefit for the Community.
You've dropped the faction-specific forums entirely and per BranFlakes the Dev team wants to see them. I do, too, although I do see your point that they may not be entirely necessary.
You've also dropped the Space/Ground divisions. Based on the fact that Space and Ground mechanics, look and feel, combat, and missions are very different, I see why the Devs would want those called out. Might make sense to have a "Core Space Gameplay" and a "Core Ground Gameplay".
Based on how they work, the Fleet Advancement and the Reputation systems both work alike and the same Devs are responsible for them. I see no point in separating Starbases and Reputation into different areas, but I'm open to any insight that I might be overlooking.
Finally, you've completely dropped any kind of "catchall" feedback forum. I think we need that.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
You're right that the c-store section doesn't really feel appropriate at the top, it was really only listed there due to starting with C, but alpha sorting felt inappropriate.
About the space/ground division, it in part makes the Shipyard redundant then. It may be better to forego the shipyard section and brand the two sections Core Gameplay Ground and Space respectively as suggested.
Regarding separation of starbases, doffs and reputation, that was due to the Systems team requesting it be setup that way, tough given the low traffic, it probably doesn't make sense to separate them, since it should be easy enough to pickup the relevant threads for anyone browsing the forum.
Either way it presents two alternatives.
A) Feedback & Discussions
.Core Gameplay Ground (Classes, ground BOFFs, traits, powers, ground items etc.)
.Core Gameplay Space (Ships, ship items, traits, space BOFFs, powers ect.)
.Core Gameplay Other (Duty Officers, Starbases, Reputations)
.Missions (Journal Story Missions, STFs, Fleet Actions, calendar events, ect.)
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Zen-Store and Promotions
.Controls and User Interface
.Art, Graphics and Sound
.Core Gameplay Ground (Classes, ground BOFFs, traits, powers, ground items etc.)
.Core Gameplay Space (Ships, ship items, traits, space BOFFs, powers ect)
.Core Gameplay Other (Duty Officers, Starbases, Reputations)
.Missions (STFs, Fleet Actions, calendar events, ect.)
.Federation Gameplay (Journal story missions, ...?)
.Klingon Gameplay (Journal story missions, ...?)
.Rumulan Gameplay (Journal story missions, ...?)
.PvP Gameplay
..PvP Boot Camp
.Zen-Store and Promotions
.Controls and User Interface
.Art, Graphics and Sound
I could get behind something like this.
They could even rename the "Core Gameplay" to something more Trekkish.
Core Gameplay Ground -> Away Team
Core Gameplay Space -> The Final Frontier
Core Gameplay Other -> Lower Decks
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Then move the first 1-2 pages worth of threads from the old sections to their new respective sections.
That way you keep the new sections free from irrelevant/offtopic posts and lay the foundation for a cleaner forum and easier search options.
Over time more threads can be moved to their respective section as Bran/mods have some downtime.
I was king of surprised they didn't just go ahead and do it when they added the Romulan Fleet Recruitment and just have them temporarily locked until closer to launch.