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T5 Constellation Class.

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  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    What is this obsession with canon Fed carriers anyway?
    There are no canon carriers. For any faction. Period.
  • lexusk19lexusk19 Member Posts: 1,415 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Ok, the Constellation is not a carrier to the best of my knowledge. From what was seen in show it was just a cruiser with 4 nacelles. On to next point, Constellations are not small! Look at the episode the battle. It is only slightly smaller than a Galaxy class. The Enterprise D is shown towing one, clear size comparison right there. Also the argument about age will never work. Excelsior was around when the Constitution was about. That means the Exc predates the Constellation by a great many years. And the Exc is one of the best ships in the game!
    1e3sni150tar.jpg
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lexusk19 wrote: »
    Ok, the Constellation is not a carrier to the best of my knowledge. From what was seen in show it was just a cruiser with 4 nacelles. On to next point, Constellations are not small! Look at the episode the battle. It is only slightly smaller than a Galaxy class. The Enterprise D is shown towing one, clear size comparison right there. Also the argument about age will never work. Excelsior was around when the Constitution was about. That means the Exc predates the Constellation by a great many years. And the Exc is one of the best ships in the game!

    Geko's inability to see his favorite ship not be a powerhouse is at fault there.
  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Geko's inability to see his favorite ship not be a powerhouse is at fault there.

    As punishment Geko must be forced to play Star Trek: Shattered Universe for 100 hours straight (if you don't get it, it's a game where the Excelsior is basically made of paper).
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Geko's inability to see his favorite ship not be a powerhouse is at fault there.
    But that doesn't change the fact that the Excelsior is older than the Constellation. There's a T3 and T5 version of the ship. So setting aside the Geko bias that turned it into the best layout for a cruiser of all-time, there's still the fact that a Constellation is newer. So a T4 and T5 version? Or just make it a reskin of the already existing 4-nacelle cruiser, which is ... heh, T3 and Fleet.

    The ship is certainly new enough to be in Starfleet right now just because of how many old ships Cryptic has already made for this game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • evendzharevendzhar Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lexusk19 wrote: »
    That means the Exc predates the Constellation by a great many years.
    No. The USS Excelsior (the first Excelsior class starship) was launched in 2285, while the earliest known Constellation class starship, the USS Hathaway, was also commissioned in 2285. However, considering the Constellation design (it uses the Constitution refit saucer and nacelles), it seems likely that it predates the Excelsior by at least a few years.
  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    evendzhar wrote: »
    No. The USS Excelsior (the first Excelsior class starship) was launched in 2285, while the earliest known Constellation class starship, the USS Hathaway, was also commissioned in 2285. However, considering the Constellation design (it uses the Constitution refit saucer and nacelles), it seems likely that it predates the Excelsior by at least a few years.

    Not necessarily. The Excelsior uses a non standard parts design that is rarely seen again, aside from those godawful DS9 kitbashes that no one should speak of.
    The Ambassador for example, apart from the nacelles, resembles a Constitution more than an Excelsior.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lizwei wrote: »
    What is this obsession with canon Fed carriers anyway?
    There are no canon carriers. For any faction. Period.

    where do you think all those fighters used by the federation during operation return were held? they did not warp with the fleets all the way to starbase 375, then to wherever they engaged the dominion fleet by themselves...something had to be carrying them
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    where do you think all those fighters used by the federation during operation return were held? they did not warp with the fleets all the way to starbase 375, then to wherever they engaged the dominion fleet by themselves...something had to be carrying them

    The fighters and runabouts shown in DS9 have been shown to be warp capable before.
    Since no carriers were shown, the logical conclusion is they didn't want to waste money showing tiny ships warping in.
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lizwei wrote: »
    Oh please, compared to the death of the Enterprise D, the Odyssey practically went down swinging.

    Yeah, the Odyssey was lost in battle over Sisko, while the Enterprise was lost in battle stopping a planet's annihilation. So yeah, its better to lose a Galaxy and its officers for one officer in comparison to losing a Galaxy with no casualties over a planet.

    If you look at the Constellation's model, you can see the large shuttlebay doors. In fact the door is nearly as large as the saucer's depth. There are six more large shuttlebay doors that ring the saucer section. They are not as wide, but their height is the same. We only have seen the Constellation doing rather little in all of its appearances.

    The Constellation is slightly larger than the Constitution II at 310m. Given that the Constellation, herself, was going through certification trials in 2293 when the Hathaway was commissioned in 2285, and the ship, itself, is made from Constitution II technology, I would say that the Constellation was built just before the Excelsior, and if you go by the registry numbers, the Constellation is NX-1974 while the Excelsior was NX-2000.

    Exactly, the fighters would have to have been transported to the front lines, their engines would not have kept up with the main fleet.
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    Before that, and it wasn't as bad as he makes out. I suspect a lot of sore losers were in the mix.

    The Chandley was a horrible design, however, it did make it into Trek novels with its inclusion in Starfleet Corps of Engineers novel, Foundations.
    You are the first person I have ever seen say they didn't like the Chandley.

    Only criticism I have ever heard before was that it looked like a Connie saucer with D-7 wings added. Which is a valid statement, however design-wise it made sense (since it was a carrier) and I found it made it look pretty bad-TRIBBLE.
    I only have one beef about the Chandley...

    Why the hell would anybody want their nacelles stuck out, that far from the main body of the ship?
    Why would a carrier need that kind of a design?

    Are Star Fleet pilots so bad that they might crash into one of them if they were closer?

    I'd be more worried about them getting blown off during a battle.

    I like the body design, just think the nacelle struts are a bit silly.
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    Yeah, the Odyssey was lost in battle over Sisko, while the Enterprise was lost in battle stopping a planet's annihilation. So yeah, its better to lose a Galaxy and its officers for one officer in comparison to losing a Galaxy with no casualties over a planet.

    The Odyssey was lost fighting the new hot ships of the new hot big bad to save a beloved main character, being instrumental in his rescue.

    The Enterprise D was lost fighting a Klingon garbage scow because it's commander was too incompetent to know what the phrase "fire everything we've got at that ship" meant to save a pre-industrial civilisation we don't know and have never heard of, being incidental in their salvation, as Picard and Kirk take care of that.
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lizwei wrote: »
    The Odyssey was lost fighting the new hot ships of the new hot big bad to save a beloved main character, being instrumental in his rescue.

    The Enterprise D was lost fighting a Klingon garbage scow because it's commander was too incompetent to know what the phrase "fire everything we've got at that ship" meant to save a pre-industrial civilisation we don't know and have never heard of, being incidental in their salvation, as Picard and Kirk take care of that.

    The Odyssey was still lost over one officer. The Enterprise went to Veridian III to stop Soran from destroying the system with the inhabited planet. As for, Riker's actions, you got me on that one. Granted, both ships' shields were of no use, yet the Odyssey survived longer, maybe the Odyssey was refitted, while the Enterprise hasn't been able to get to the shipyard yet.
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    The Odyssey was still lost over one officer. The Enterprise went to Veridian III to stop Soran from destroying the system with the inhabited planet. As for, Riker's actions, you got me on that one. Granted, both ships' shields were of no use, yet the Odyssey survived longer, maybe the Odyssey was refitted, while the Enterprise hasn't been able to get to the shipyard yet.

    Jem'Hadar clearly did not have the "Uber Lucky Shot" trait.
  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Well the Odyssey didn't use the "show your rear to the enemy and expose your warp core section to their shots" maneuver.

    I realise that the stakes in Generations were higher (well unless you're a member of the Cult of the Sisko) but the E-D's performance was shocking.
    If it had been a top of the line Klingon warship, fair enough, but they go out of the way to say that this is an old junker that's only good for hauling garbage.

    But I suppose it could be worse. The original draft for Generations had a scene where the Duras sisters survive and have sex with Data.
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Am I the only one who noticed that whole sub-plot with Geordie's Visor?

    And the fact that nobody on the 'D' had a clue that their shields were totally compromised...

    ...so that a couple of "targeted" shots by the "garbage scow", took out most of the Enterprises' main systems.

    (almost exactly like Khans' shots did to Kirk)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lizwei wrote: »
    The fighters and runabouts shown in DS9 have been shown to be warp capable before.
    Since no carriers were shown, the logical conclusion is they didn't want to waste money showing tiny ships warping in.

    i know the fighters were warp-capable, but something that small really doesn't seem like it would have the ability to generate a powerful enough warp field to go warp 9.whatever and keep up with the bigger ships, and the capital ships wouldn't have slowed down to match the fighter's warp speed because they were rushing to get to DS9 before the dominion took down the minefield

    ergo, there must've been carriers somewhere in that fleet, and since Akira class ships are both known to be carriers (though whether this is canon is debatable, since there's no info about it at all on the ship's MA article) and saw action during the dominion war (including operation return), i'd say that's what was being used to carry them
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    daveyny wrote: »
    Am I the only one who noticed that whole sub-plot with Geordie's Visor?

    And the fact that nobody on the 'D' had a clue that their shields were totally compromised...

    ...so that a couple of "targeted" shots by the "garbage scow", took out most of the Enterprises' main systems.

    (almost exactly like Khan did to Kirk)

    - It's called remodulating the shields. Riker, of all people, should be familiar with this.

    - The first few hits did nothing to the Enterprise's system's, it could still fire back. It just didn't do so enough.

    - Khan knew exactly where to hit the Enterprise, because he was on a Federation ship with Federation computers and top level access because he controlled the captain.

    - The Jem'hadar had a similar shield penetrating advantage, and yet the only way they could kill the Odyssey was by ramming it.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lizwei wrote: »
    The Jem'hadar had a similar shield penetrating advantage, and yet the only way they could kill the Odyssey was by ramming it.

    didn't one of the main cast say that ship rammed the odyssey to 'prove a point', or some such thing like that?
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    didn't one of the main cast say that ship rammed the odyssey to 'prove a point', or some such thing like that?

    The point being "we'll do anything to destroy you even if you try to run away".
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    didn't one of the main cast say that ship rammed the odyssey to 'prove a point', or some such thing like that?

    Indeed. O'Brien asks why the Jem'Hadar made a kamikaze run when the Odyssey was retreating. Sisko replies with "They're showing us how far they're willing to go".
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Indeed. O'Brien asks why the Jem'Hadar made a kamikaze run when the Odyssey was retreating. Sisko replies with "They're showing us how far they're willing to go".

    also that they were willing to do anything to achieve victory, since to them, "Victory is life"
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    At least it wasn't a computer virus. Poor Yamato.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    i know the fighters were warp-capable, but something that small really doesn't seem like it would have the ability to generate a powerful enough warp field to go warp 9.whatever and keep up with the bigger ships, and the capital ships wouldn't have slowed down to match the fighter's warp speed because they were rushing to get to DS9 before the dominion took down the minefield

    ergo, there must've been carriers somewhere in that fleet, and since Akira class ships are both known to be carriers (though whether this is canon is debatable, since there's no info about it at all on the ship's MA article) and saw action during the dominion war (including operation return), i'd say that's what was being used to carry them

    There are numerous problems with the idea those craft needed a carrier ship.
    Primarily the fact that whenever the fleets leave their staging grounds the fighters are in formation with them.

    If the fighters needed a carrier craft that would be the dumbest approach imaginable.
    Because then the fleet would get underway, and then while already underway get slowed down by the need to initiate the recovery operations.

    In "Sacrifice of Angels" we see the fighters in formation with the bigger ships while they are on their way...BEFORE they detect the Dominion fleet.
    Did they just launch their entire fighter force out fo boredom halfway to their target?

    There are other options how the fighters get to their target without th need to land on any ship.
    We know from "Enterprise" as well as the TNG pilot that it's possible to ferry another ship or a Galaxy saucer section inside the warpfield of another ship.
    So just cluster the fighters around the bigger ships and you're ready to go.
    This would also explain why the fighters are always inbetween the ships ionstead of at the fring of the formations (whihc would indicate they're doing CAP operations of some sort).

    Also the Peregrines are rather hughe (about the size of a Boeing 737) and therfore much larger than some small fighter-bombers we have today like the Su-34...which has its own toiled and galley for its 2-man crew.

    So what would they need carriers for?

    Also in Voyager's "Message in a Bottle" Starfleet sent an Akira and two Defiants to retrieve the Prometheus...and the supposed carrier didn't have any fighters.
    Is Starfleet staffed my morons? A carrier without fighters?:confused:
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    We know from "Enterprise" as well as the TNG pilot that it's possible to ferry another ship or a Galaxy saucer section inside the warpfield of another ship.
    So just cluster the fighters around the bigger ships and you're ready to go.

    that would still make the bigger ships carriers, just not in a traditional sense...that would actually be interesting to see onscreen though; maybe for a future trek series
    misterde3 wrote: »
    Also in Voyager's "Message in a Bottle" Starfleet sent an Akira and two Defiants to retrieve the Prometheus...and the supposed carrier didn't have any fighters.
    Is Starfleet staffed my morons? A carrier without fighters?:confused:

    well, i can't give an in-universe answer for that, but the out-of-universe answer was probably they didn't have enough money for that particular episode's budget to show a bunch of fighters on top of everything else
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Just in that one sentence, you just insulted 20th Century naval experts. Why do fighter craft need carriers, to refuel, for a mobile base, to be repaired on the fly, to expand their range, for better coordination in battle, and so on and so on.

    The D's saucer was only in the warp bubble for a small amount of time and when the star drive section left, the saucer coasted along until it went back in normal space. The Columbia and the Enterprise were an emergency situation and since we haven't really seen it happen afterwards, it probably was not a viable option for normal stellar travel.

    The fighters were in formation to get ready, you dont launch fighters right away in fight, only if the battle is spontaneous, I suspect that they were launched just prior to what the viewer sees.
  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    At least it wasn't a computer virus. Poor Yamato.

    If we go by that episode, the entire Federation computer network could be hijacked by a single hacker in present day Russia. :P
  • skillzftwskillzftw Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    the stargazer is a constellation class go buy the fleet one and be happy.
    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Stargazer

    T5 connie t5 constellation no different imo id rather see what the artists can dream up and have something completely new
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lizwei wrote: »
    If we go by that episode, the entire Federation computer network could be hijacked by a single hacker in present day Russia. :P

    wait, the Russians have access to highly advanced 200,000 year old Iconian computer viruses?! :eek:

    no wonder pirating is so widespread over there
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • pagolsagolpagolsagol Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Get free steam games from www.steampoints.com = 100% free Steam Games.
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