No, sorry. What's on-screen trumps what the creator may or may not have said. "Gene said" or "Lucas said" or whatever is not a valid argument without on-screen support.
Okay. From the TNG Episode "The Neutral Zone"
"(The Romulans) killed my parents in an attack on Khitomer at a time when they were supposed to be our allies." Worf.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Jesus, people. I agree that the Romulan-Klingon Alliance happened. Agamemnon you even responded to one of my posts agreeing that it happened on the previous page. All I was saying is that "Gene said" is not a valid argument (except maybe for situations where the on-screen evidence is ambiguous and so creator intent becomes valuable) and people need to stop using it.
But the Romulan-Klingon Alliance is not ambiguous.
I agree with where the OP is coming from. I like my Romulans as a hybrid mix of martial honor and pride coupled with subterfuge and craftiness. My Romulan will be trying to rebuild the Romulan Star Empire not some wishy washy democracy.
Not sure what shows some of you watch... the Romulans already had warp drive by the time of the alliance with the Klingons, they did not gain warp technology from the trade with the Klingons.
They are shown using warp enabled vessels during the time of Enterprise which takes place from 2151-2161. The trade between the KDF and the romulans was sometime in the late 2260s which is almost 100 years after the Romulans demonstrated the ability to field warp capable ships. (Plus the D7 battlecruisers were not in service, they were using the D5 as shown on ST:E, granted the visuals were originally a D7s basically because of TOS budget but the canon is that they are totally different ships)
That and how the hell would they even power a cloaking device without warp power? 25th century ships with the exception of the Reman scimitar class can't cloak and use shields at the same time due to power constraints.
Fair enough but it doesn't change the fact that the Rommies were clearly warp able long before the alliance/trade with KDF for the reasons I listed above. Even if those ships in minefield were impulse only (they were not shown on screen warping) the drone ships in season four of Ent when they were up to shennagians were clearly shown to have warp drive that even the more advanced races were hard pushed to keep pace with (Vulcans and Andorians )
Hang on, are we arguing about the Romulan's status as a warp capable race now? Seriously?
So, tell me this, if it didn't have warp drive, how did it travel system to system rapidly knocking out multiple outposts along the neutral zone? How did it even get out there? At relativistic speeds it would have taken decades for it to do what it did and even longer for it to reach the neutral zone. Why did it have warp nacelles with bussard collectors? Why did discussion of what it could and could not do while cloaked address it's warp capabilities?
Plus its more likely that the Klingons would of just conquered Romulus and Remus making it part of the empire rather than say giving them the means to setup their own empire and become one of the major players in the quadrant.
Klingons are not known for freely handing out tech and other random acts of kindness after all, they prefer taking it by force from others.
Hang on, are we arguing about the Romulan's status as a warp capable race now? Seriously?
All of this stems from one comment that the writers may not have known the science behind it or even understood it at the time.
Besides, they had to have had some type of FTL travel, otherwise the Earth-Romulan War would not have happened.
And as TNG shows, there are other ways to power a starship (we see that the Romulans use microsingularities to power their warbirds).
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Theres more than one way to go FTL and Warp drive is not the only one used in trek
Romulan ships in early trek moved at the speed of plot
as indeed did all ships
We have seen plot shields, plot weapons and plot armor in Star Trek. Why not add plot engines to that.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
They can come up with anything they want for any race it doesn't say anywhere it has to make any kind of sense, it's not canon.
You should worry more about the bugs or interruption of gameplay we are facing - i.e something real instead of worrying about if makes strict logistical sense compared to what was said on TNG episode 23 timecode 45:02
If they can make an entire series with a station that doesn't go anywhere and call it "Trek", then the Romulans can use a wormhole, an alien gate, or anything really, to get things "going".
According to the Encyclopedia, the Bird of Prey seen in TOS could only fly at impulse speeds.
One of these rare instances where common sense must prevail.
Unless they launched a couple hundred years earlier to the event in Balance of Terror than they must have had some type of FTL capability. If not, you are talking about relativistic speeds and in that instance we are talking about decades just getting from Romulus to the Neutral Zone.
Unless there is some phantom warp capable support vessle lurking just inside the Neutral Zone.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
If they can make an entire series with a station that doesn't go anywhere and call it "Trek"
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You must have missed those runabouts, that little ship called the Defiant, and the Gamma Quadrant
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Hang on, are we arguing about the Romulan's status as a warp capable race now? Seriously?
So, tell me this, if it didn't have warp drive, how did it travel system to system rapidly knocking out multiple outposts along the neutral zone? How did it even get out there? At relativistic speeds it would have taken decades for it to do what it did and even longer for it to reach the neutral zone. Why did it have warp nacelles with bussard collectors? Why did discussion of what it could and could not do while cloaked address it's warp capabilities?
I agree. There is no solid reason to beleive the Romulan ship in Balance of Terror didn't have warp drive. Sure there was a throwaway line about them moving at impulse, BUT the ship was shown to have moved several lightyears during the episode.
Also I just rewatched the part where Scotty talks about the warbird's speed. His statement seems to be based solely on observations of the way the Romulan ship was moving. The Enterprise had no scan data of the Romulan ship at the time. They'd barely even gotten a visual of it....
So why move so slow when you know someone is coming after you? Well, the Romulan commander seemed to be trying to bait Kirk into fighting him....
I agree. There is no solid reason to beleive the Romulan ship in Balance of Terror didn't have warp drive.
Except published sources of Trek lore like the Encyclopedia and the episode itself? Those are usually solid reasons.
If you're going to throw out canon completely then hey, let's have a T5 NX, because there's no solid reason to believe it can't function at STO end-game.
Apparently Starfleet went decades without hearing a peep from the Romulans. Multiple times in the history of Trek.
Isolationism doesn't equate to lack of technology.
Again, common sense must prevail. Without some type of Romulan FTL capability, the Earth-Romulan is impossible and the Neutral Zone incursion in "Balance of Terror" is impossible.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Except published sources of Trek lore like the Encyclopedia and the episode itself? Those are usually solid reasons.
If you're going to throw out canon completely then hey, let's have a T5 NX, because there's no solid reason to believe it can't function at STO end-game.
I have the episode on DVD and just rewatched it. Scotty was talking about the BoP's OBSERVED speed. They had no other data available to determine if that vessel could move at warp or not. At that point in the ep they had only breifly even gotten a visual of it. They had no scan data of the ship, only a handful of observations.
You must have missed those runabouts, that little ship called the Defiant, and the Gamma Quadrant
I'm dropping a long discussion regarding how properly the "mobilis in mobili" spirit of the franchise is served by some stationary object as a focus.
I never said the station operated in a vacuum... alright, we will have to get back to that one... but rather tried to hint to the alternate forms of travel such an object inspired.
Not entirely in a respectful tone granted. That one is on me.
Why would it have warp nacelles if it could not move faster then light?
As an expensive decoration?
Quoted :
Visual evidence (such as the presence of warp nacelle-like objects on the model) also suggest that the ship had faster-than-light capability, as does the fact that the Enterprise was traveling at warp speeds for much of the engagement with the Romulans.
So if one film said that Kirk was a vulcan, and all the others said he was a human ...and he looked human... which species do you think Kirk would be of?
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Agreed. It is extremely compelling to take that rather lovely decoration for warp nacelles, and say that whatever Scotty meant, he was commenting on something unknown, rather than specific engine specifications and capabilities.
Sometimes you need to appear confident, and in control of the situation. And make a comment, even if it is vague. I don't think that's stretching it, given the rather floating nature of said specifications. Encyclopedia or not.
Simple impulse for some, only part of the output for others.
It is this, or Space Unicorns. And those we reserve for May. Unless something better turns up. Let's pray.
If there is not a third alternative... Preferably one that does not involve a headache.
Comments
Okay. From the TNG Episode "The Neutral Zone"
"(The Romulans) killed my parents in an attack on Khitomer at a time when they were supposed to be our allies." Worf.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
But the Romulan-Klingon Alliance is not ambiguous.
He is the creator and had the last say
Same as if you want absolute fact about harry potter you ask J K Rowling not watch the films
(example for our younger peoples)
Nope, the last say is what is on the screen or, in your Rowling example, on the page. That is where the story is.
They are shown using warp enabled vessels during the time of Enterprise which takes place from 2151-2161. The trade between the KDF and the romulans was sometime in the late 2260s which is almost 100 years after the Romulans demonstrated the ability to field warp capable ships. (Plus the D7 battlecruisers were not in service, they were using the D5 as shown on ST:E, granted the visuals were originally a D7s basically because of TOS budget but the canon is that they are totally different ships)
That and how the hell would they even power a cloaking device without warp power? 25th century ships with the exception of the Reman scimitar class can't cloak and use shields at the same time due to power constraints.
You use the power of your core
if you examine the first TOS appearance of the romulans
you will see a cloaked ship without full warp drive
they effectively tore up canon to make a worse story
Hell, she won't even know what year it is
And depending on stats and traits she might not even look romulan either.
So, tell me this, if it didn't have warp drive, how did it travel system to system rapidly knocking out multiple outposts along the neutral zone? How did it even get out there? At relativistic speeds it would have taken decades for it to do what it did and even longer for it to reach the neutral zone. Why did it have warp nacelles with bussard collectors? Why did discussion of what it could and could not do while cloaked address it's warp capabilities?
Romulan ships in early trek moved at the speed of plot
as indeed did all ships
We ourselves do this as well (at proper warp speed we are doing about warp 40 when we travel across the map)
Klingons are not known for freely handing out tech and other random acts of kindness after all, they prefer taking it by force from others.
All of this stems from one comment that the writers may not have known the science behind it or even understood it at the time.
Besides, they had to have had some type of FTL travel, otherwise the Earth-Romulan War would not have happened.
And as TNG shows, there are other ways to power a starship (we see that the Romulans use microsingularities to power their warbirds).
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
We have seen plot shields, plot weapons and plot armor in Star Trek. Why not add plot engines to that.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
You should worry more about the bugs or interruption of gameplay we are facing - i.e something real instead of worrying about if makes strict logistical sense compared to what was said on TNG episode 23 timecode 45:02
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One of these rare instances where common sense must prevail.
Unless they launched a couple hundred years earlier to the event in Balance of Terror than they must have had some type of FTL capability. If not, you are talking about relativistic speeds and in that instance we are talking about decades just getting from Romulus to the Neutral Zone.
Unless there is some phantom warp capable support vessle lurking just inside the Neutral Zone.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
You must have missed those runabouts, that little ship called the Defiant, and the Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Also I just rewatched the part where Scotty talks about the warbird's speed. His statement seems to be based solely on observations of the way the Romulan ship was moving. The Enterprise had no scan data of the Romulan ship at the time. They'd barely even gotten a visual of it....
So why move so slow when you know someone is coming after you? Well, the Romulan commander seemed to be trying to bait Kirk into fighting him....
My character Tsin'xing
If you're going to throw out canon completely then hey, let's have a T5 NX, because there's no solid reason to believe it can't function at STO end-game.
Isolationism doesn't equate to lack of technology.
Again, common sense must prevail. Without some type of Romulan FTL capability, the Earth-Romulan is impossible and the Neutral Zone incursion in "Balance of Terror" is impossible.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
My character Tsin'xing
I'm dropping a long discussion regarding how properly the "mobilis in mobili" spirit of the franchise is served by some stationary object as a focus.
I never said the station operated in a vacuum... alright, we will have to get back to that one... but rather tried to hint to the alternate forms of travel such an object inspired.
Not entirely in a respectful tone granted. That one is on me.
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This article mentions the topic.
It also says..... the ship has warp nacelles.
Why would it have warp nacelles if it could not move faster then light?
As an expensive decoration?
Quoted :
Visual evidence (such as the presence of warp nacelle-like objects on the model) also suggest that the ship had faster-than-light capability, as does the fact that the Enterprise was traveling at warp speeds for much of the engagement with the Romulans.
So if one film said that Kirk was a vulcan, and all the others said he was a human ...and he looked human... which species do you think Kirk would be of?
Agreed. It is extremely compelling to take that rather lovely decoration for warp nacelles, and say that whatever Scotty meant, he was commenting on something unknown, rather than specific engine specifications and capabilities.
Sometimes you need to appear confident, and in control of the situation. And make a comment, even if it is vague. I don't think that's stretching it, given the rather floating nature of said specifications. Encyclopedia or not.
Simple impulse for some, only part of the output for others.
It is this, or Space Unicorns. And those we reserve for May. Unless something better turns up. Let's pray.
If there is not a third alternative... Preferably one that does not involve a headache.
---