This is an escort where you only have 3 survivability bridge officer abilities to choose from (2 less than a regular escort). Obviously you wont last long if being shot.
But it has 1 more tactical console and 1 fore weapon in exchange of a turret compared to a regular escort. It can no doubt do a lot of damage.
If I apoligize, will I get some alone time with Smurfette? I could use a little blue.
She is busy right now. You know, being the only female of such a prolific especie is a full time job. And even though a lot of people still think smurfs reproduce by spores that just isn't true.
But I will look into it and try to arrange a date (hopefuly before we get this new BoP and the raptors fixed).
@patrickngo
If ignorance is what is the root of the problem, I just make a proposition that each member of Cryptic that is involved in ship making decisions should have a kdf char and participate in P.V.P with it.
The reason why I made this proposition is because people in general tend to favor their habits many times even not knowingly (it is a general trait not a specific one this one.)
(sometime myself I do such things and later understand why I did choose a over b)
This is an escort where you only have 3 survivability bridge officer abilities to choose from (2 less than a regular escort). Obviously you wont last long if being shot.
But it has 1 more tactical console and 1 fore weapon in exchange of a turret compared to a regular escort. It can no doubt do a lot of damage.
She is busy right now. You know, being the only female of such a prolific especie is a full time job. And even though a lot of people still think smurfs reproduce by spores that just isn't true.
But I will look into it and try to arrange a date (hopefuly before we get this new BoP and the raptors fixed).
Then make a Bop bundle and have the 5th foreweapon on one varian and another that has the Ensign Uslot but a 4/3 weapons layout, finish the bundle with a Bop with extra weapons but give it the Ensign Uslot and standard sci ship skills like sensor analysis.
How ever it happens, I think a 3BoP bundle pack is a good idea to give new life to an old Bird of Prey and hopefully see something new but still comfortable in the way Bop players enjoy and the way that made Bops so much fun.
Then make a Bop bundle and have the 5th foreweapon on one varian and another that has the Ensign Uslot but a 4/3 weapons layout, finish the bundle with a Bop with extra weapons but give it the Ensign Uslot and standard sci ship skills like sensor analysis.
Smurfette thinks thats another good idea that probably will be wasted.
Sensor analysis is overrated, with all those placates.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
a bop with a 5th weapon is more problematic then a non cloaking escort with one. and the proposed stats on a bop earlier in the thread, were basically better then a bug. sure its down a little on hitpoints, but not very much. all universal stations, with an ens also is a bit much as well. in game bops are for hitting and running, they are not supposed to dog fight, they need to be fragile or they would actually be op. currently, i think the fleet bops are perfect, and with more hull they arent up or op.
a bop with a 5th weapon is more problematic then a non cloaking escort with one. and the proposed stats on a bop earlier in the thread, were basically better then a bug. sure its down a little on hitpoints, but not very much. all universal stations, with an ens also is a bit much as well. in game bops are for hitting and running, they are not supposed to dog fight, they need to be fragile or they would actually be op. currently, i think the fleet bops are perfect, and with more hull they arent up or op.
I must remind that fed side already have an escort that cloaks with 3 rear weapons as well as 5 tac consoles.
TBH I don't think we NEED to cross class with the Bird of Prey layout-that is, we don't NEED an extra weapon. Maybe a Raptor with a better turn-pivot, but not a BoP. a 4/3 layout on a Bird of Prey just turns it into a funny-looking Raptor, and that, if'n you pardon my saying, kind of runs counter to the ethos OF the Bird of Prey-which class is all about doing the MOST, with the LEAST-and that ethic has an appeal of it's own.
The "Soul" of the Bird of Prey is stripped down, nothing wasted, pure essentials and pure battle-of-manuever instead of the brute siege.
for that, adding another power draining weapon really isn't needed-what's needed, is what I've stated before:
1. More Movement-boost the Impulse modifier so that it has the best speed of any ship in the game...period. Worst hull, best speed, best turn rate, but you pay for the privelage and you have to actually THINK about how to skill and fly it.
2. Some useful gimmick-adding a fixed ensign to an all universal bird CAN be a useful gimmick, esp. if you give it Sensor analysis and 4 Sci consoles in at least one variant, repeat the 4 tac console and 4 engie console on the other two variants. (could even go FIVE consoles on the tac version, just to be sick and funny, but 4 means you have room for a Fleeted version to pack that extra console in).
I agree birds of prey are pretty well as they are though a small boost wouldnt harm anyone (well, yes, maybe feds). But if the fed side get better ships than regular, then klingon side should get them with comparable boosts too.
1. More Movement-boost the Impulse modifier so that it has the best speed of any ship in the game...period. Worst hull, best speed, best turn rate, but you pay for the privelage and you have to actually THINK about how to skill and fly it.
This. The BoP class NEEDS this. By my count (which might be off, as I haven't logged in for almost 2 months), there are 2-3 ships that move faster than the BoP, and most escorts move AS fast.
Boost BoP impulse mod to .24 or .25 and keep the maneuverability. That would do a lot towards making the BoP more effective hit-and-run ships. I deliberately avoid tangling with the JHAS because I know it's unlikely I'll catch the pilot off guard enough to kill them in a single alphastrike, and I won't be able to escape easily unless I use an Impulse Capacitance Cell.
I can work around the vulnerability of the BoP. . .I'll complain about it and remind Federation noobs of it, but I can work around it using tactics. 4 tac console slots on the Fleet BoPs is fine for the purposes of the BoP. Speed, however, is a bit less flexible and improvable.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Agreed i want a kdf escort 3 ships pack too. Make it a bop, a ferasan escort, a raptor 2.0, whatever, but something with good consoles, very aggresive like the kumari, and a lot of dps.
a bop with a 5th weapon is more problematic then a non cloaking escort with one. and the proposed stats on a bop earlier in the thread, were basically better then a bug. sure its down a little on hitpoints, but not very much. all universal stations, with an ens also is a bit much as well. in game bops are for hitting and running, they are not supposed to dog fight, they need to be fragile or they would actually be op. currently, i think the fleet bops are perfect, and with more hull they arent up or op.
How was what I proposed better then a bug.... my goodness I never expected you to sound like the feds that got the first Brel nerfed... because cloaked healing would destroy the game. lmao
I proposed 28k... the Jem has 34,500
That is pretty major... and after skill boosts its very major. Every one complains how much more hull the jem has over the fed escorts and THAT base number really is only a couple K off.
Universal stations... give me a break your are not talking about a JEM with 2 UNI Lt stations. Right ?
Is the bop ANY challenge to a JEM with out using Commander and Lt. commander Tac... Exactly... uni or not its the same layout. lol
OR.... you can say Tactical Comamnder LT.Commander Sci/Engi.... which makes it IDENTICAL to MVAM or Armitage...which IS NOT going to give it the advantage.
I'm sorry Uni Stations mean 100% NOTHING anymore. There IS NO setup that gives the bop an advantages... there are only setups that MATCH existing fed escorts. 4 years ago at launch YES bop drivers could choose 90% of a MVAM or Armitage Setup... a year or two before the feds where giving those setups... with extra boff slots... and none of the hull shield or weapons disadvantages to go with them.
The only reason UNi stations deserve and should stay... is the lack of klingon ships... and frankly I am not asking nor want a parade of new klink ships to fill every role. It would be unklink... the klingons take the same old piece of junk and mod it for the mission... they don't role out fancy new ships every week so they can break a few bottles of Chateau Picard.
IN THIS game bops are for hitting and running because that is what Cryptic wants you to think the bop is for.... That is NOT what the BOP is for in canon... and it doesn't NEED to be what its for in STO.
I'd still like to see super sleek Orion or Ferisian escort with 5 forward and 5 tac after that the rest of the consoles really dont matter as long as the numbers are relatively balanced between sci and eng. Seating is really whatever at this point as if its not bone head dumb unbalanced boff slots you can make a build thats good for it.
Bops arn't hit an run in ST but its what they do in the game and they do it well, if your gonna make a new bop make it a better melt feds in 7 and run instead of something random for their class.
How was what I proposed better then a bug.... my goodness I never expected you to sound like the feds that got the first Brel nerfed... because cloaked healing would destroy the game. lmao
I proposed 28k... the Jem has 34,500
That is pretty major... and after skill boosts its very major. Every one complains how much more hull the jem has over the fed escorts and THAT base number really is only a couple K off.
Universal stations... give me a break your are not talking about a JEM with 2 UNI Lt stations. Right ?
Is the bop ANY challenge to a JEM with out using Commander and Lt. commander Tac... Exactly... uni or not its the same layout. lol
OR.... you can say Tactical Comamnder LT.Commander Sci/Engi.... which makes it IDENTICAL to MVAM or Armitage...which IS NOT going to give it the advantage.
I'm sorry Uni Stations mean 100% NOTHING anymore. There IS NO setup that gives the bop an advantages... there are only setups that MATCH existing fed escorts. 4 years ago at launch YES bop drivers could choose 90% of a MVAM or Armitage Setup... a year or two before the feds where giving those setups... with extra boff slots... and none of the hull shield or weapons disadvantages to go with them.
The only reason UNi stations deserve and should stay... is the lack of klingon ships... and frankly I am not asking nor want a parade of new klink ships to fill every role. It would be unklink... the klingons take the same old piece of junk and mod it for the mission... they don't role out fancy new ships every week so they can break a few bottles of Chateau Picard.
IN THIS game bops are for hitting and running because that is what Cryptic wants you to think the bop is for.... That is NOT what the BOP is for in canon... and it doesn't NEED to be what its for in STO.
thats exactly what a bop was for in canon
your saying a ship with over 20 turn, all universal, a 5th forward weapon or 5th tac console or 3rd rear weapon, that has a shield mod and hitpoints nearly the same as a defiant, with a battle cloak and the ensign station too isn't bug level?
universal stations don't mater? HA! your not very imaginative. unless i was setting up a mini or thisler like bird, i doubt i would have more then the commander tactical, and then only use one of the LTs for tactical, maybe. the bug universals are a false choice, theres not much you can really do with them. you can do terrible things with COM and LTC universals though.i think birds should get that ensign station they are missing though. they trade enough already, to much compared to the +1 base line. the weapon isnt as big a deal, but a 5th tac console, or a 5th weapon combined with battle cloak is too much.
i would add an ens station to all the fleet birds, thats basically it. i think they are fairly stated otherwise
your saying a ship with over 20 turn, all universal, a 5th forward weapon or 5th tac console or 3rd rear weapon, that has a shield mod and hitpoints nearly the same as a defiant, with a battle cloak and the ensign station too isn't bug level?
universal stations don't mater? HA! your not very imaginative. unless i was setting up a mini or thisler like bird, i doubt i would have more then the commander tactical, and then only use one of the LTs for tactical, maybe. the bug universals are a false choice, theres not much you can really do with them. you can do terrible things with COM and LTC universals though.i think birds should get that ensign station they are missing though. they trade enough already, to much compared to the +1 base line. the weapon isnt as big a deal, but a 5th tac console, or a 5th weapon combined with battle cloak is too much.
i would add an ens station to all the fleet birds, thats basically it. i think they are fairly stated otherwise
NO it most assuredly is NOT what the bop was in canon. The Brel yes... the Bird of Prey as a general Design NO. 4 years ago Cryptic gave us the Hegh which was supposed to be a larger modern BOP... it has 3x the crew of the brel raider. In canon there are existing bops with crews of 1200.
Also REREAD my OP... I never asked for a 5th forward weapons slot OR a 5th tac console. Did you really even read what I proposed... or just what people started talking about 10 pages in.
Again the Mini Thislier... build yes they are doable on a fed escort... you don't have cloak so it makes no sense... both Mini and Thisler die 2s after a failed run over half the time... that is why you don't see people doing similer in fed ships. :P
Again re read what I asked for the privilege to drop $50 on... 4 Weapons slots fore... 3 aft... an Ensign slot... the same turn as the current fleet bops... 6% more hull then the current fleet bops, but still over 10% less hull then the lowest speced fed escort... 2% better shielding the the current fleet bop... and a FLEET level console setup (WHICH IS NOT 5 tac consoles). The fleet bops are the only fleet ships that do not get a free console upgrade Dont. I didn't even say I wanted them to... I said I want a shiny Cstore version that is +1 like the feds have been getting.... at at that point It should get the fleet console treatment. Shouldn't it ?
My request isn't 5 tac console 5 weapons in the front escort stats... go re read what I in fact said.
OR.... you can say Tactical Comamnder LT.Commander Sci/Engi.... which makes it IDENTICAL to MVAM or Armitage...which IS NOT going to give it the advantage.
Neither of those ships can swap on the fly, and the player needs to actually buy 3 or 4 different ships to get all of the layouts that a KDF player gets with a single free L40 ship choice.
This is one of those advantages that you keep saying isn't an advantage and yet continue to press the point that it's absolutely mandatory to keep.
It can't be all of those things, it's either a clear advantage that you want to keep or it's not a clear advantage and should be on the chopping block of ideas to create a "super BoP" that is basically an escort in all but name, with better turn, cloaking and is fully customizable.
IN THIS game bops are for hitting and running because that is what Cryptic wants you to think the bop is for.... That is NOT what the BOP is for in canon... and it doesn't NEED to be what its for in STO.
Resorting to canon isn't helping your argument, if we went to canon Cruisers would rule the battle field as Tank and DPS and monster spike.
You'd need several BoPs working in tandem to take one down hoping they aren't one-shot by the massive amount of phaser banks loaded on a Galaxy or Sovereign.
Not to mention that we constantly see BoPs cloaking and decloaking, hitting and running, in canon.
You don't want BoPs to be hit and run, but you want them to keep all of their hit and run potential.
You don't think uni stations are advantage, but you seem pretty intent that any future BoPs should have them.
Why should the KDF have a one stop shop to buy an uber escort that can basically do any layout available while Fed players have to buy a handful of ships to get similar layouts?
The Feds just got the least customizable 3pack yet, completely locked into CMD and LTC Tactical, with the Tac version even being saddled with an extra Tac LT of all things.
That's Cryptic trying to balance the ship, we might not agree on the success of their efforts but to me at least their efforts are clear, and a ship like you propose in my eyes looks to go way beyond what we are getting out of the Cstore (a lockbox on the other hand...,lol).
Why should the KDF have a one stop shop to buy an uber escort that can basically do any layout available while Fed players have to buy a handful of ships to get similar layouts?
The Feds just got the least customizable 3pack yet, completely locked into CMD and LTC Tactical, with the Tac version even being saddled with an extra Tac LT of all things.
Well 1... you guys need to read the ship I was talking about... cause it is still no escort... if that was the case people turn there JEMs in for lower hull cooler looking fleet ships.
Yes it has cloak its klink... yes it can keep the uni unless Cryptic feels like following through with there promise of a complete Klingon faction. SURE feds get to buy sci ship and escort 3 packs....
Bottom line my proposal still leaves EVERY single 5 tac console escort FED side... it still leaves the bop on the field as the most Squish ship you can choose. What it does do is remove the joke factor of even flying one in a premade...
How bout this...
I'll ask nicely for 4 of the Critz boys to return from MWO long enough to join be in a Proper Setup 2 Fleet Scorts 2 Wells ODDY fed premade... and you can find yourself 5 Pandas to jump into 2 bops 2 Klink time ships... and a battle cruiser.
Would you bet on the klinks. lol
Thats harsh cause ya Klink premades CAN be done... QEW managed to pull it off at one time... but thing is the ship gap has grown even more since then and we all QQed about it then... QEW has been gone for well over a year.
Sorry but the 10% bump I asked for on the bop... isn't out of line.
I asked for them to replace the omited rear weapon which isn't going to pwn anyone.
I asked them to replace the missing single boff and console. (Which let me remind everyone we have 2 fleet bops that have almost all the hull and shields I asked for... and one gets the console and one gets the BOFF... so asking for a 50 dollar version that does both isn't crazy)
its just the feds turn to get p2w TRIBBLE was the kdf a year ago with all the p2w ships/consoles soon it will go back. just go through the list of ships on the kdf and look at feds and see what they have feds don't have and vice versea...
its just the feds turn to get p2w TRIBBLE was the kdf a year ago with all the p2w ships/consoles soon it will go back. just go through the list of ships on the kdf and look at feds and see what they have feds don't have and vice versea...
The kdf toys where pretty much all matched with fed ones... for every Aceton unit there was a AMS. Sure some of the fed ones where terrible, but there are klink ones that barely get used as well.
Perhaps they swing and make some klink ships... really though I highly doubt it. Which is why the logical solution is to tinker with the BOP line... the raptors are terrible and will never sell everyone knows that.
It would seem we will likely see romulans shortly... and I don't want to loose the klink faction. Frankly that's what is going to happen. We can all see it now... These guys arguing that I am asking for super BOP seem to not be thinking 2 months down the line... When with out HALF DECENT bop I asked for.... Klink faction simply dies, and we all fly Proper FED counter Romulan BOPs... and Dexs. They will sure wish there Klingon allies perhaps had a proper bop when that comes. lol
I still like the idea. It seems fair as long as the BoP remains a raider at the heart of it design.
If the KDF is to get a 5 forward weapon and/or a 5 tactical console slot ship it should be a Battle Cruiser.
Though the OP (I cant spell antlliroeies from memory right now) has a point. If the BoP was near the powerful ship or had the potential that some claim it would be used more in premades.
It can shine in a pug enviroment but it is weak in a premade. It would be nice to see it as a viable choice instead of a favorite choice for premades.
In the end the OPs ideas would make it no more tough than the Kumari with is an excellent raider in its own right.
OP, it seems to me the KDF Vet ship has a lot of what you're asking for already (granted it's not available to the masses).
To me the Fleet B'rel lacking a 4th sci console and needing T5 base is what's lacking most.
The Battlecruisers, Fleet Somraw (sp?), KDF Vet ship, fill most other roles imo. Even, the new Fleet ship maybe an OK sci option. But in general while these ships maybe agile/fast for their class, it does slow the KDF faction down. A Sci oriented Fleet B'rel would help maintain the hit and run faction feel.
I would also boost Raiders movement across the board, there shouldn't be any Escort that comes close to out manuvering them. Escorts should have better damage potential, and better defenses, not better movement imo.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
What it does do is remove the joke factor of even flying one in a premade...
Cryptic is clearly not designing for Premades (or any extreme outliers) at most they try to tone a few items down for PvP but that's it.
BoPs are really open world PvP ships, you don't want them to be hit and run ships - you want them to be arena combatants, but you want them to keep everything they have now.
Hey run with it, who knows. I just don't see it happening.
Ultimately the devs won't, and likely can't design ships around 'Premade Arena Combat'. That's just too extreme an outlier to really design around for a game like STO.
I'll ask nicely for 4 of the Critz boys to return from MWO long enough to join be in a Proper Setup 2 Fleet Scorts 2 Wells ODDY fed premade... and you can find yourself 5 Pandas to jump into 2 bops 2 Klink time ships... and a battle cruiser.
Would you bet on the klinks. lol
1) The best escort is still the JHAS and is available to both factions.
2) Why do you want the KDF in the match up to bring their assassin ships instead of their gladiators? Conceptually that's how ships like Raiders vs. Escorts/Raptors have been designed.
I get it, you want the BoP to be the main ship for KDF, that would be nice thematically I admit.
I think it's unrealistic for it to get closer to Escorts and also retain all of it's current Hit & Run advantages.
Take a look at the Peghqu'. That's a ship that is right in the escort/destroyer/raptor territory, plus it has a battle cloak.
What did it lose? Uni layout and Turn rate.
I wouldn't be necessarily worried about facing the ship you proposed in an arena. I just think some of the Hull, OR some of the turn rate, OR some of the Uni stations would be likely to get tuned down should Cryptic actually design a ship like this.
Ultimately the devs won't, and likely can't design ships around 'Premade Arena Combat'.
I won't argue anymore I have made my points.
But I did have to comment on this one.
You have been paying attention to the Ships and doffs released the last 6 months right...
Doffs that do almost nothing in PvE but are OP in PvP ?
I'm sorry the Vesta and the Andorian ship are both... enhancements aimed at PvP. Even the lockbox ships mostly have been seen as OP and annoying in PvP... and yet the PvErs are less impressed with them.
For a company not catering to PvP... they sure know how to ask for PvPers pocket change. lol
I wouldn't be necessarily worried about facing the ship you proposed in an arena. I just think some of the Hull, OR some of the turn rate, OR some of the Uni stations would be likely to get tuned down should Cryptic actually design a ship like this.
Now consider what I asked for again and tell me it isn't honestly a pretty minor upgrade 2 both of those designs.... and can you honestly argue that the fed Cstore +1 ships don't include just as many and in fact MORE bonuses over say a Fleet Patrol... or in the cast of the Vesta over a Fleet Deep Space.
Kumari raise the level for federation escorts with at least 2 marks making most of them obsolete.
If I would want to buy a ship for my federation tac I would buy the full pack of Kumari i wouldn't buy any federation escort, fleet or c-version as they are now.
-It was 5 fore hardpoints able to slot DHC backed by 5 tactical consoles.
-The consoles are unique and good.You have one that is a mega shield stripper ,another that make an aoe hit of ~27 squared km ,and one that give +2 forward hitting cannons
(so actually you have 7 cannons+2 turrets=9 cannons with CRF+APA+APO ...)
Federation players who consider kumari flawed due to bof seating are wrong due to habit I think and they don't understand what ship they got or they simply don't want to see because they are afraid that their new ship could be nerfed in future.As I said in another post kumari it is the ultimate raptor in game and it would be a pity to nerf it and federation should keep it as it and kdf should get something really good instead.
I think that Cryptic should work out something with kdf playerbase and that thing must be the same awesome ship to kdf as it is Kumari to fed .
Federation players opposing new powerful kdf ship must understand that if kdf won't get at least a new Really good ship they will slowly vanish from game and federation won't have any "bad guys" left to fight.Federation players should keep in mind that in last interview it was confirmed that federation will get 2 revamped c-store ships "when they are ready" so they always can get another "Kumari" if by mistake the new kdf will get too powerful.
Cryptic should understand that if they give a good ship to kdf ,kdf will flourish or at least remain as it is.What happens if kdf gets a bad ship again?It won't sell again,forum posts will continue to pour,people will slowly get tired for asking,kdf slowly will start vanishing from game and that would made the game untrek.Cryptic must not let that happen under no circumstance.Even if that means giving a really good ship to kdf which could anger a little and for short time some of federation playerbase who don't understand that Star Trek means federation,klingon,romulan all together not just a faction or two.
Cryptic must make money and giving a good ship to kdf will do that but what is more important it can restore some faith in Cryptic for kdf players and so maybe give a boost to kdf playerbase and so give a boost to game itself.That boost in game means more in my opinion than the immediate money they will get from sells of a good ship it means more future money and growth of the game.
I think we should be more constructive all (kdf /federation) and start finding a viable option to kdf even if it may could be a little too powerful at start.
In this thread I see 2 viable propositions :@antoniosalieri proposition for the 3 bop package
(http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8224231&postcount=1)
and @dontdrunkimshoot idea for an vet destroyer as it is now enhanced with 5 cannons +2 turn rate
(http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8268321&postcount=150)
We could discuss both versions with a note that if it would be the second one then it would be fair that all LTS (fed or kdf ) should get something in exchange since their ship will go obsolete.
So I propose to start fresh with the 2 variants from above and try to make specifications for a kdf ship that will be able to win against a Kumari in 50% of times.
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
KDF ships are in the pipe. We may possibly see some of them before May. But we will see them. As a KDF player I would like to for the most part see Raptors re-imagined as a expoloration/science type class of hull. I'd like to see a nice BOP 3 pack like what the OP has proposed. I'd like to see some more KDF Battlecruisers running a LtC TC BOff, and LtC Sci BOFF to go with the cruiser standard Engineer Cmdr BOFF. round it out with a Lt TAC and Lt ENG, go with a 4/3/3 console stacking 4/4 weps.. or better 5/3 weps and KDF Battle cruisers all of a sudden are something feddy escorts have to be cautious around.. I'd personally like to see a battlecruiser 3 pack that focuses the Battle cruiser in the DPS ships with a sci boff enhancement..
From an asthetics standpoint I like the look of the Kamarag and K'maj hulls...need one more look on that same basic form.
I'd like to see a fleet version of the X-wing BOP..just because I think its its a sexy beast..bbut let it mount 2 quad mounts eh? After all, I recall all the contraversy about how unpowerfull the quad was... (funny, My quad disruptors keep following me into my next ships..go figure eh?)
Comments
But it has 1 more tactical console and 1 fore weapon in exchange of a turret compared to a regular escort. It can no doubt do a lot of damage.
She is busy right now. You know, being the only female of such a prolific especie is a full time job. And even though a lot of people still think smurfs reproduce by spores that just isn't true.
But I will look into it and try to arrange a date (hopefuly before we get this new BoP and the raptors fixed).
Devs having Toons of all factions playing PvP should be ajob requirement
R.I.P
Then make a Bop bundle and have the 5th foreweapon on one varian and another that has the Ensign Uslot but a 4/3 weapons layout, finish the bundle with a Bop with extra weapons but give it the Ensign Uslot and standard sci ship skills like sensor analysis.
How ever it happens, I think a 3BoP bundle pack is a good idea to give new life to an old Bird of Prey and hopefully see something new but still comfortable in the way Bop players enjoy and the way that made Bops so much fun.
R.I.P
Smurfette thinks thats another good idea that probably will be wasted.
I must remind that fed side already have an escort that cloaks with 3 rear weapons as well as 5 tac consoles.
I agree birds of prey are pretty well as they are though a small boost wouldnt harm anyone (well, yes, maybe feds). But if the fed side get better ships than regular, then klingon side should get them with comparable boosts too.
This. The BoP class NEEDS this. By my count (which might be off, as I haven't logged in for almost 2 months), there are 2-3 ships that move faster than the BoP, and most escorts move AS fast.
Boost BoP impulse mod to .24 or .25 and keep the maneuverability. That would do a lot towards making the BoP more effective hit-and-run ships. I deliberately avoid tangling with the JHAS because I know it's unlikely I'll catch the pilot off guard enough to kill them in a single alphastrike, and I won't be able to escape easily unless I use an Impulse Capacitance Cell.
I can work around the vulnerability of the BoP. . .I'll complain about it and remind Federation noobs of it, but I can work around it using tactics. 4 tac console slots on the Fleet BoPs is fine for the purposes of the BoP. Speed, however, is a bit less flexible and improvable.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
How was what I proposed better then a bug.... my goodness I never expected you to sound like the feds that got the first Brel nerfed... because cloaked healing would destroy the game. lmao
I proposed 28k... the Jem has 34,500
That is pretty major... and after skill boosts its very major. Every one complains how much more hull the jem has over the fed escorts and THAT base number really is only a couple K off.
Universal stations... give me a break your are not talking about a JEM with 2 UNI Lt stations. Right ?
Is the bop ANY challenge to a JEM with out using Commander and Lt. commander Tac... Exactly... uni or not its the same layout. lol
OR.... you can say Tactical Comamnder LT.Commander Sci/Engi.... which makes it IDENTICAL to MVAM or Armitage...which IS NOT going to give it the advantage.
I'm sorry Uni Stations mean 100% NOTHING anymore. There IS NO setup that gives the bop an advantages... there are only setups that MATCH existing fed escorts. 4 years ago at launch YES bop drivers could choose 90% of a MVAM or Armitage Setup... a year or two before the feds where giving those setups... with extra boff slots... and none of the hull shield or weapons disadvantages to go with them.
The only reason UNi stations deserve and should stay... is the lack of klingon ships... and frankly I am not asking nor want a parade of new klink ships to fill every role. It would be unklink... the klingons take the same old piece of junk and mod it for the mission... they don't role out fancy new ships every week so they can break a few bottles of Chateau Picard.
IN THIS game bops are for hitting and running because that is what Cryptic wants you to think the bop is for.... That is NOT what the BOP is for in canon... and it doesn't NEED to be what its for in STO.
Bops arn't hit an run in ST but its what they do in the game and they do it well, if your gonna make a new bop make it a better melt feds in 7 and run instead of something random for their class.
thats exactly what a bop was for in canon
your saying a ship with over 20 turn, all universal, a 5th forward weapon or 5th tac console or 3rd rear weapon, that has a shield mod and hitpoints nearly the same as a defiant, with a battle cloak and the ensign station too isn't bug level?
universal stations don't mater? HA! your not very imaginative. unless i was setting up a mini or thisler like bird, i doubt i would have more then the commander tactical, and then only use one of the LTs for tactical, maybe. the bug universals are a false choice, theres not much you can really do with them. you can do terrible things with COM and LTC universals though.i think birds should get that ensign station they are missing though. they trade enough already, to much compared to the +1 base line. the weapon isnt as big a deal, but a 5th tac console, or a 5th weapon combined with battle cloak is too much.
i would add an ens station to all the fleet birds, thats basically it. i think they are fairly stated otherwise
NO it most assuredly is NOT what the bop was in canon. The Brel yes... the Bird of Prey as a general Design NO. 4 years ago Cryptic gave us the Hegh which was supposed to be a larger modern BOP... it has 3x the crew of the brel raider. In canon there are existing bops with crews of 1200.
Also REREAD my OP... I never asked for a 5th forward weapons slot OR a 5th tac console. Did you really even read what I proposed... or just what people started talking about 10 pages in.
Again the Mini Thislier... build yes they are doable on a fed escort... you don't have cloak so it makes no sense... both Mini and Thisler die 2s after a failed run over half the time... that is why you don't see people doing similer in fed ships. :P
Again re read what I asked for the privilege to drop $50 on... 4 Weapons slots fore... 3 aft... an Ensign slot... the same turn as the current fleet bops... 6% more hull then the current fleet bops, but still over 10% less hull then the lowest speced fed escort... 2% better shielding the the current fleet bop... and a FLEET level console setup (WHICH IS NOT 5 tac consoles). The fleet bops are the only fleet ships that do not get a free console upgrade Dont. I didn't even say I wanted them to... I said I want a shiny Cstore version that is +1 like the feds have been getting.... at at that point It should get the fleet console treatment. Shouldn't it ?
My request isn't 5 tac console 5 weapons in the front escort stats... go re read what I in fact said.
MT has a pretty interesting set up going, I'm pretty sure he's using Ltc Sci.
Neither of those ships can swap on the fly, and the player needs to actually buy 3 or 4 different ships to get all of the layouts that a KDF player gets with a single free L40 ship choice.
This is one of those advantages that you keep saying isn't an advantage and yet continue to press the point that it's absolutely mandatory to keep.
It can't be all of those things, it's either a clear advantage that you want to keep or it's not a clear advantage and should be on the chopping block of ideas to create a "super BoP" that is basically an escort in all but name, with better turn, cloaking and is fully customizable.
Resorting to canon isn't helping your argument, if we went to canon Cruisers would rule the battle field as Tank and DPS and monster spike.
You'd need several BoPs working in tandem to take one down hoping they aren't one-shot by the massive amount of phaser banks loaded on a Galaxy or Sovereign.
Not to mention that we constantly see BoPs cloaking and decloaking, hitting and running, in canon.
You don't want BoPs to be hit and run, but you want them to keep all of their hit and run potential.
You don't think uni stations are advantage, but you seem pretty intent that any future BoPs should have them.
Why should the KDF have a one stop shop to buy an uber escort that can basically do any layout available while Fed players have to buy a handful of ships to get similar layouts?
The Feds just got the least customizable 3pack yet, completely locked into CMD and LTC Tactical, with the Tac version even being saddled with an extra Tac LT of all things.
That's Cryptic trying to balance the ship, we might not agree on the success of their efforts but to me at least their efforts are clear, and a ship like you propose in my eyes looks to go way beyond what we are getting out of the Cstore (a lockbox on the other hand...,lol).
No they can drop every single uni slot....
IF
They are willing to release 20 different bops to even the factions.
I think you see the issue and why we say leave the uni slot alone.
Well 1... you guys need to read the ship I was talking about... cause it is still no escort... if that was the case people turn there JEMs in for lower hull cooler looking fleet ships.
Yes it has cloak its klink... yes it can keep the uni unless Cryptic feels like following through with there promise of a complete Klingon faction. SURE feds get to buy sci ship and escort 3 packs....
Bottom line my proposal still leaves EVERY single 5 tac console escort FED side... it still leaves the bop on the field as the most Squish ship you can choose. What it does do is remove the joke factor of even flying one in a premade...
How bout this...
I'll ask nicely for 4 of the Critz boys to return from MWO long enough to join be in a Proper Setup 2 Fleet Scorts 2 Wells ODDY fed premade... and you can find yourself 5 Pandas to jump into 2 bops 2 Klink time ships... and a battle cruiser.
Would you bet on the klinks.
Thats harsh cause ya Klink premades CAN be done... QEW managed to pull it off at one time... but thing is the ship gap has grown even more since then and we all QQed about it then... QEW has been gone for well over a year.
Sorry but the 10% bump I asked for on the bop... isn't out of line.
I asked for them to replace the omited rear weapon which isn't going to pwn anyone.
I asked them to replace the missing single boff and console. (Which let me remind everyone we have 2 fleet bops that have almost all the hull and shields I asked for... and one gets the console and one gets the BOFF... so asking for a 50 dollar version that does both isn't crazy)
The kdf toys where pretty much all matched with fed ones... for every Aceton unit there was a AMS. Sure some of the fed ones where terrible, but there are klink ones that barely get used as well.
Perhaps they swing and make some klink ships... really though I highly doubt it. Which is why the logical solution is to tinker with the BOP line... the raptors are terrible and will never sell everyone knows that.
It would seem we will likely see romulans shortly... and I don't want to loose the klink faction. Frankly that's what is going to happen. We can all see it now... These guys arguing that I am asking for super BOP seem to not be thinking 2 months down the line... When with out HALF DECENT bop I asked for.... Klink faction simply dies, and we all fly Proper FED counter Romulan BOPs... and Dexs. They will sure wish there Klingon allies perhaps had a proper bop when that comes.
If the KDF is to get a 5 forward weapon and/or a 5 tactical console slot ship it should be a Battle Cruiser.
Though the OP (I cant spell antlliroeies from memory right now) has a point. If the BoP was near the powerful ship or had the potential that some claim it would be used more in premades.
It can shine in a pug enviroment but it is weak in a premade. It would be nice to see it as a viable choice instead of a favorite choice for premades.
In the end the OPs ideas would make it no more tough than the Kumari with is an excellent raider in its own right.
R.I.P
To me the Fleet B'rel lacking a 4th sci console and needing T5 base is what's lacking most.
The Battlecruisers, Fleet Somraw (sp?), KDF Vet ship, fill most other roles imo. Even, the new Fleet ship maybe an OK sci option. But in general while these ships maybe agile/fast for their class, it does slow the KDF faction down. A Sci oriented Fleet B'rel would help maintain the hit and run faction feel.
I would also boost Raiders movement across the board, there shouldn't be any Escort that comes close to out manuvering them. Escorts should have better damage potential, and better defenses, not better movement imo.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Cloak, sure. Battle cloak, that you've said is a liability, why?
Cryptic is clearly not designing for Premades (or any extreme outliers) at most they try to tone a few items down for PvP but that's it.
BoPs are really open world PvP ships, you don't want them to be hit and run ships - you want them to be arena combatants, but you want them to keep everything they have now.
Hey run with it, who knows. I just don't see it happening.
Ultimately the devs won't, and likely can't design ships around 'Premade Arena Combat'. That's just too extreme an outlier to really design around for a game like STO.
1) The best escort is still the JHAS and is available to both factions.
2) Why do you want the KDF in the match up to bring their assassin ships instead of their gladiators? Conceptually that's how ships like Raiders vs. Escorts/Raptors have been designed.
I get it, you want the BoP to be the main ship for KDF, that would be nice thematically I admit.
I think it's unrealistic for it to get closer to Escorts and also retain all of it's current Hit & Run advantages.
Take a look at the Peghqu'. That's a ship that is right in the escort/destroyer/raptor territory, plus it has a battle cloak.
What did it lose? Uni layout and Turn rate.
I wouldn't be necessarily worried about facing the ship you proposed in an arena. I just think some of the Hull, OR some of the turn rate, OR some of the Uni stations would be likely to get tuned down should Cryptic actually design a ship like this.
I won't argue anymore I have made my points.
But I did have to comment on this one.
You have been paying attention to the Ships and doffs released the last 6 months right...
Doffs that do almost nothing in PvE but are OP in PvP ?
I'm sorry the Vesta and the Andorian ship are both... enhancements aimed at PvP. Even the lockbox ships mostly have been seen as OP and annoying in PvP... and yet the PvErs are less impressed with them.
For a company not catering to PvP... they sure know how to ask for PvPers pocket change. lol
I know, I just said I wouldn't. lol
http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Ning%27tao_Bird-of-Prey_Retrofit
22 turn / 9 consoles / 1 Commander... and 2 Lt. Commander / Just under 25,000 hull / .88 shield mod
http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Hoh%27SuS_Bird-of-Prey
21 turn / 10 consles / 1 commander ... and 1 Lt . Commander / Just under 25,000 Hull / .88 shield mod
Those are the fleet ships we have...
Now consider what I asked for again and tell me it isn't honestly a pretty minor upgrade 2 both of those designs.... and can you honestly argue that the fed Cstore +1 ships don't include just as many and in fact MORE bonuses over say a Fleet Patrol... or in the cast of the Vesta over a Fleet Deep Space.
If I would want to buy a ship for my federation tac I would buy the full pack of Kumari i wouldn't buy any federation escort, fleet or c-version as they are now.
-It was 5 fore hardpoints able to slot DHC backed by 5 tactical consoles.
-The consoles are unique and good.You have one that is a mega shield stripper ,another that make an aoe hit of ~27 squared km ,and one that give +2 forward hitting cannons
(so actually you have 7 cannons+2 turrets=9 cannons with CRF+APA+APO ...)
Federation players who consider kumari flawed due to bof seating are wrong due to habit I think and they don't understand what ship they got or they simply don't want to see because they are afraid that their new ship could be nerfed in future.As I said in another post kumari it is the ultimate raptor in game and it would be a pity to nerf it and federation should keep it as it and kdf should get something really good instead.
I think that Cryptic should work out something with kdf playerbase and that thing must be the same awesome ship to kdf as it is Kumari to fed .
Federation players opposing new powerful kdf ship must understand that if kdf won't get at least a new Really good ship they will slowly vanish from game and federation won't have any "bad guys" left to fight.Federation players should keep in mind that in last interview it was confirmed that federation will get 2 revamped c-store ships "when they are ready" so they always can get another "Kumari" if by mistake the new kdf will get too powerful.
Cryptic should understand that if they give a good ship to kdf ,kdf will flourish or at least remain as it is.What happens if kdf gets a bad ship again?It won't sell again,forum posts will continue to pour,people will slowly get tired for asking,kdf slowly will start vanishing from game and that would made the game untrek.Cryptic must not let that happen under no circumstance.Even if that means giving a really good ship to kdf which could anger a little and for short time some of federation playerbase who don't understand that Star Trek means federation,klingon,romulan all together not just a faction or two.
Cryptic must make money and giving a good ship to kdf will do that but what is more important it can restore some faith in Cryptic for kdf players and so maybe give a boost to kdf playerbase and so give a boost to game itself.That boost in game means more in my opinion than the immediate money they will get from sells of a good ship it means more future money and growth of the game.
I think we should be more constructive all (kdf /federation) and start finding a viable option to kdf even if it may could be a little too powerful at start.
In this thread I see 2 viable propositions :@antoniosalieri proposition for the 3 bop package
(http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8224231&postcount=1)
and @dontdrunkimshoot idea for an vet destroyer as it is now enhanced with 5 cannons +2 turn rate
(http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8268321&postcount=150)
We could discuss both versions with a note that if it would be the second one then it would be fair that all LTS (fed or kdf ) should get something in exchange since their ship will go obsolete.
So I propose to start fresh with the 2 variants from above and try to make specifications for a kdf ship that will be able to win against a Kumari in 50% of times.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
None of this **** is ever happening. The Romulans will take precedence over the Klingons when they get released.
From an asthetics standpoint I like the look of the Kamarag and K'maj hulls...need one more look on that same basic form.
I'd like to see a fleet version of the X-wing BOP..just because I think its its a sexy beast..bbut let it mount 2 quad mounts eh? After all, I recall all the contraversy about how unpowerfull the quad was... (funny, My quad disruptors keep following me into my next ships..go figure eh?)
Khemaraa sends