Ok so the Vesta rolled around and now the Andorian escort to the Cstore... and no Klink mirror of either, as with the oddy pack.
Here is the solution Cryptic.
The Bird Of Prey.
Yes the proto typical Klingon vessel.... the ship that DEFINES what it is to be a Klingon warrior. Its versatility coming from modular design... a ship that can be held together by spit and glue if needed.. and keep fighting. The ship that CRYPTIC has been kicking in the teeth for 3 years.
We know Cryptic is very concerned that if they give the Evil Klinks a proper bop the game may end... balance will be destroyed... rivers will boil ect.
Come on we Klinks lived through the ridiculous B'Rel you released. You where scared no doubt that somehow letting a ship with 24k base hull operate properly the game would have died. Well you did in fact correct the mistake eventually. (thanks for that again I guess)... really though when we see the great concern for balance shown with the vesta and now the Kumari it does make all the old school klinkers chuckle. No balance concerns when it involves fed ship design... move along.
Then there was the fleet debacle... Yes that's what I'm calling it... the Norg... one of my new favorite ships... now that you have given it enough hull to only go pop half as often as it did when it had less hull then a cstore shuttle. LOL Klingon balance Ha.
I will also say that many of the fleet bops don't get the fleet vessel console treatment and that is insulting.
Anyway I will stop sounding negative and get to the point... I am going to show you a way to make MONEY for doing very very minimal work... and make customers happy which will in fact make you more Money... see where I'm going here... pay attention now... $$$$ you can make some easy $$$$$.
Hegh'ta Heavy Bird-of-Prey Retrofit - CSTORE 3 Pack
The Klingon High command, in an effort to strengthen the front lines of the empire. Have tasked the Klingon Defense Force with updating the warfare systems on the empires highest surplus of ships and ship components. The results of their efforts is the New and improved Hegh'ta, Haj and QulDun class Bird of Prey designs. Owing to the Bird of Preys highly modular design that has served the Empire in the battle theater for years, the 3 new Bird classes have been rolled out as Refits of outwardly familiar designs. However looks can be deceiving as all 3 of these new Birds of Prey have the latest in Klingon technology. Recent improvements in multiple studies have provided the Empire with 3 highly adaptable base platforms that her warriors can put to great use. The Klingon Defense force has also developed 3 new systems incorporating captured battle technologies that can be tied into the Bird of Preys systems. To compliment the added fire power of the Hegh'ta class Design Klingon Scientists have tied in a captured Dominion Synergy unit adapting it for use with Klingon standard Disruptor weaponry. This unit operates for short periods of time, boosting the strength of the ships disruptor weaponry, however it is prone to over heating and will off line for a predictable amount of time. Klingon scientists have also used captured Federation technology to enhance the sensors of the Haj bird of prey design. This unit when installed in the Haj weapon platform will provide a instant boost to sensor resolution, applying a 10 stack of sensor analysis to a target. Being that the systems are so vastly different they have only been able to achieve this feat for short durations of time of course a wise warrior will make good use of this advantage. With the QulDun class engineers have been able to adapt a small part of the gorn self repair technology that has served the empire well in the Varnus class of science vessel. This additional piece of tech will launch a small contingent of cloaking self repair drones that will follow and repair any external damage the vessel may take in the course of battle. As an added bonus Empire Scientists have been able to enable a system synergy between the adapted units for Commanders deemed worthy enough to be trusted with all 3 adapted systems. By linking all 3 systems the bird of prey is able to engage a AOE field that improves the battle field in the favor of the Empire. This 5k radius field will increase Disruptor dmg passing into it by 10%, it will also enhance sensor systems providing a 10% resistance debuff to enemy vessels as well as improve effected friendly vessels hull repair rate by 100%.
Haj (Science Version BOP refit)
Battle Cloak
Type:Raider
Hull:28,000
Shield 0.9
Crew 100
Turn Rate:22
Impulse Modifier:0.20
Inertia rating:60
Bonus Power:+15 aux power
Boffs.
Commander / Lt. Commander / Lt / Lt / Ensign
Consoles
3 Tactical
4 Sci
3 Engi
Fore Weapons 4 Hard points
Rear Weapons 3 Hard points
Adapted Federation Sensor Unit
QulDun (Engi Version BOP refit)
Battle Cloak
Type:Raider
Hull:28,000
Shield 0.9
Crew 100
Turn Rate:22
Impulse Modifier:0.20
Inertia rating:60
Bonus Power:+10 Engine and Shield power
Boffs.
Commander / Lt. Commander / Lt / Lt / Ensign
Consoles
3 Tactical
3 Sci
4 Engi
Fore Weapons 4 Hard points
Rear Weapons 3 Hard points
Adapted Gorn self repair system
There it is Cryptic... a Kliingon answer to the Kumari AND the Vesta... we don't need mirror klink versions... we need klink ships that are true to the faction... and one of the only classes that fits that bill is the bird of prey... I am hoping that the recent small bump in stats on the norg... is a sign that you understand how badly you have treated the hand down most ICONIC Klingon class of ships in this game.
The Bop DESERVES a ensign slot... another console... and a third rear weapon point.
Sorry but the full uni design is paid for in Hull and shield numbers in spades.
This idea would give you something you could literly WHIP out as I think most of the code exists... the models already exist... and frankly it would sell as well as any of the fed ships you have spent so much more time on.
Yes it is a fair proposition toward kumari spec's and would bring balance between kdf and fed
(It has only 4 tactical consoles but it has more hull and battle cloak.It is ok)
I will buy such a 3 pack when Cryptic decide to make it available.
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
really though when we see the great concern for balance shown with the vesta and now the Kumari it does make all the old school klinkers chuckle. No balance concerns when it involves fed ship design... move along.
/snip lovely OP ship design
The Bop DESERVES a ensign slot... another console... and a third rear weapon point.
Sorry but the full uni design is paid for in Hull and shield numbers in spades.
This idea would give you something you could literly WHIP out as I think most of the code exists... the models already exist... and frankly it would sell as well as any of the fed ships you have spent so much more time on.
That would be swell, and yes the BoP deserves a bump. However, just as with the Galaxy, making a useful BoP will never happen. The ship is too iconic, so in the long run, no-one would be truly compelled to make further ship purchases. Hence, these ships that everybody wants to fly need to remain weak.
I have very bad predictions about my beloved romulan warbird. But even with the BO layout of the T3 Galaxy, and the hull and shields of the bop. It the one ship i really want to fly.
..Yeah...I think I'll stay silent, grab a six pack of bloodcola and a tub of Orion fried Gacht and watch the fireworks from my cloaked bop...
..Incoming!
I don't think its unreasonable.
The Klingon escorts have always been miss handled by cryptic... the raptor was always bad and mostly hated... the naus ships where fun but in the end no exactly fantastic ships... and bottom line they didn't feel Klingon which I believe effected there sales by a large margin.
The klingon escort ships half always been terrible... 1 they are very un klink. I am not even sure what the raptor is... not only is it a pretty meh design in game its ugly... and I would bet sales of items for the fleet versions would reflect that. The naus ships don't get me started they are solid escorts... but they are so very un klink.
The bird of prey is Iconic... and it would sell like all Iconic ships do. For every Fan that is willing to dish out $ for a Hot dog and paper plate iconic fed ship... there is at least one that loves the Industrial Light and magic Bird of Prey so much they will also drop some $. Its to bad the Hegh is so ugly... a classic b'rel model is the real Made for Mr. Nimoy, Mcoy. Still that ship exists end game so I think the Hegh is the likely skin to use.
That would be swell, and yes the BoP deserves a bump. However, just as with the Galaxy, making a useful BoP will never happen. The ship is too iconic, so in the long run, no-one would be truly compelled to make further ship purchases. Hence, these ships that everybody wants to fly need to remain weak.
I have very bad predictions about my beloved romulan warbird. But even with the BO layout of the T3 Galaxy, and the hull and shields of the bop. It the one ship i really want to fly.
Is it may yet?
Indeed I see your point... if you can uber Enterprise why do you want that fuggly ferengi one... ect.
Of course the best bop models are already used by the fleet versions... The B'rel hands down the best best, and the first bop design. Is already in use. The Norg which looks like an updated B'rel is also used. Leaves the Hegh a Cryptic abomination verison of the bop design... that still looks bop enough to be called one... but again it isn't really The ILM bop is it.
I don't know they can't do up a raptor... no one is ever going to drop $ on a raptor... and with no seeming plan to do much with the Klink faction (for sure if romms really are coming) what harm could it really do to there future sales. Besides we all know Cryptic is all about the quick $.
That would be swell, and yes the BoP deserves a bump. However, just as with the Galaxy, making a useful BoP will never happen. The ship is too iconic, so in the long run, no-one would be truly compelled to make further ship purchases. Hence, these ships that everybody wants to fly need to remain weak.
I have very bad predictions about my beloved romulan warbird. But even with the BO layout of the T3 Galaxy, and the hull and shields of the bop. It the one ship i really want to fly.
Is it may yet?
You mean the Romulan Warbird with 2 tac consoles, 5 turn rate, battle cloak and no dual cannons ? :P
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Overcharged Disruptors
The hull damage resistance debuff from these disruptors is twice as effective as standard disruptors.
Hadron Disruptors
These also apply a damage resistance debuff to shields.
You could put purple [Acc][Dmg] on the ship and MK XII with other mods in the dil store. That way you could sell the unlock to people who just want the weapons.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
You mean the Romulan Warbird with 2 tac consoles, 5 turn rate, battle cloak and no dual cannons ? :P
I hope that a Romulan faction's vessels would be as sci-focused as Fed ships are Eng-focused and KDF ships are Tac-focused.
I might buy this proposed BoP set. Maybe. I've paid money, not farmed dil, for a number of ships previously, almost all KDF. I dunno, for me it'd be all about trading the 23 turning rate and 80 inertia of the B'Rel Retrofit for the extra rear mount and ensign boff slot, unless the console set was really neat stuff. I'd rather see a super flexible BoP than a BoP with a rear mount and an extra boff slot. More turning, more speed. Maybe a variant that gets shields like a sci ship but hull like a Hoh'Sus.
I'd really like to see some better sci-focused ships for the KDF, but... I think tacs are boring. :P I just think it sucks that our best sci ship is the CStore Varanus, a KDF equivalent of the Fed's (free) DSSV, discounting the Temporal.
Well, any which way you slice it, there's plenty of room for things to happen.
Just like the Vesta, Kumari and Odyssey lines of ships are the feds archetypical cruiser, science and escort, this 3 ships would *exemplify* the Klingon Art of War. However, it would be more realistic with a turnrate of 17 or 18. Nothing in canon suggests that a bop turns much better than a Defiant .
Nevertheless, you would have my money for that ship pack.
Just like the Vesta, Kumari and Odyssey lines of ships are the feds archetypical cruiser, science and escort, this 3 ships would *exemplify* the Klingon Art of War. However, it would be more realistic with a turnrate of 17 or 18. Nothing in canon suggests that a bop turns much better than a Defiant .
Nevertheless, you would have my money for that ship pack.
Well I gave it exactly 1 point more then the current Hegh... I don't think it should be a downgrade in turn that won't fly or sell.
Worst case it would be equal to the ship that already exists... of course the fleet defiant got a bump over the standard one.
Some questions, I'm not being facetious I'm actually asking for your opinion (I have a few KDF toons and Id love some new ships as well).
Your idea has:
1) Near Escort levels of hull (Cstore defiant has base 30K IIRC)
2) Given them standard Escort/Raptor shield mods (not fleet level)
3) Given them an extra rear weapon
4) Given them an ensign station
*But they have completely retained their Uni boff layouts, built-in battle cloaks, higher than 20 base turn rates and also get a special console on top of it.
So basically a slightly light escort that retains every advantage of the Raider class (which is not an escort class, and really was never meant to be - and only has major issues in Arena PvP IMO which is an environment they are not really designed for).
I know in the face of 5 fore weapon Escorts this seems a silly question, but where is the compromise on these ships?
Or is this just a "balance is already gone, let's just go with it" concept?
Also, realistically speaking, do you actually for a moment think that Cryptic could sell this ship pack with zero new artwork and actually satisfy players that are apparently upset that they don't have to level from 1 to 20?
New artwork is where they lose money on new ships that do not sell well enough, almost everything else is just numbers on a spreadsheet.
This is why Fleet ships are free money maker that have zero risk, they are pure profit:
They recycle art
They are per character unlocks
Many of them are 4 Fleet ship modules, or cost a full Cstore ship (2k to 2.5K zen) plus an additional fleet ship module.
I love my BoP so I'm all for helping it keep up with the times. That being said, it's not like the Fleet Defiant gained all that much over the Retrofit (and it got nothing to turn rate). This seems just a tad much in light of that.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
I want a BoP with only 3 Boffs - but all commander level.
(And 5 tac consoles would be nice.)
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
I love my BoP so I'm all for helping it keep up with the times. That being said, it's not like the Fleet Defiant gained all that much over the Retrofit (and it got nothing to turn rate). This seems just a tad much in light of that.
Fleet defiant didn't go into the Cstore as a 3 pack either did it. There are fleet bops to if you want a slighly better then the hegh option.
This would be shooting at Kumari and Vesta all in one. The defiant as much as we all love it in canon was dropped by star fleet and nothing more then a handful of the class where made. The bop on the other hand was build to last... parts from one where used in the next... in canon that ist he bop. Its the MIG fighter of the Star Trek world... where parts from a previous model will fit in a new model if you need to.
IF the klinks where to design a new ship to compete with the people they are supposed to be at war with... they would USE the bop platform to do it... they wouldn't go raiding gorn or naus ships... and they wouldn't likely be building things from the ground up... they are at war. They would take there massive fleet of existing bops and upgrade em.
Are the stats better then existing bops... yes how else do you ask people to drop 50 bucks on 3 ships. lol
Lets all be honest though... the Raptor blows... the Naus ships blow... the Klinks don't have an escort... and we can argue the points of the raptor all we want... bottom line the feds have every good escort option in the game... if you gave the feds the raptor how many would trade in there Fleet Defiants... or patrols... or advanced. or MVAMS... or Fleet Escort Retros.... NONE that's how many.
Yes I get that the Bop got called a "raider" at some point by the devs so they could justify killing it spec wise at every turn. Lets... give the klink faction the unique nature they deserve... its Cra* that all these new klinks are flying around in anything other then a bop... but they all do... frankly I don't blame them Cryptic has quite on purpose made the bop terrible.
So basically a slightly light escort that retains every advantage of the Raider class (which is not an escort class, and really was never meant to be - and only has major issues in Arena PvP IMO which is an environment they are not really designed for).
I know in the face of 5 fore weapon Escorts this seems a silly question, but where is the compromise on these ships?
Or is this just a "balance is already gone, let's just go with it" concept?
Also, realistically speaking, do you actually for a moment think that Cryptic could sell this ship pack with zero new artwork and actually satisfy players that are apparently upset that they don't have to level from 1 to 20?
I agree fleet ships are a great money maker... and with the specs I am proposing it wouldn't be "fleet" level it would be cash grab level and that's fine... the other faction has multiple cash grabs in the cstore now. Why not even it up.
To answer your question YES balance is out the window already... Vesta and Kumari 100% prove that fact. So why are they NOT cashing in on the Klink players.... seriously if the specs I proposed hit the cstore... do you think it wouldn't sell ? of course it would because its slighly op.... but you could argue that it doesn't break balance at all... and frankly I would put my money on a team built out of Kumari and vestas vs a "Retro Hegh" team any day. Is the design I propose really out of line with what the 2 new 3 pack fed ships offer... not at all... in fact I went tame.
As far as people being upset about 1-20... who cares... less BS leveling sounds good to me. Klink content... who cares don't waste your time. As long as my klink toons can do the featured stuff I don't care about klink content. People that play Klink mainly do for PvP or/and to fly a klink ship... klink missions... the badly written Cryptic style no thanks. I'll roll around the one pvp zone we have and the ques role playing my Klink warrior doing what Klink warriors do...
Man I sure would love to drop $50 on a new bop though Cryptic.
Yes I would by it for my Klink, probably not use it, but buy it to support a faction that needs something to maintain an interest in playing it.
You see that Cryptic your customers are willing to THROW money at you for offering even a token show of support for the Klingon faction. Make a real show in terms of playability and you don't even have to call the art dept... recycle it all.
Some questions, I'm not being facetious I'm actually asking for your opinion (I have a few KDF toons and Id love some new ships as well).
Your idea has:
1) Near Escort levels of hull (Cstore defiant has base 30K IIRC)
2) Given them standard Escort/Raptor shield mods (not fleet level)
3) Given them an extra rear weapon
4) Given them an ensign station
Thats exactly what I was going to say.
Even though I agree that BoPs may need a small boost, some people are already complaining that the escorts can tank almost as well as a cruiser (dont know how, but anyways thats not the point), so they would see this BoPs as real monsters.
An extra tac console OR an extra fore weapon at the cost of chainging a lt. BOFF for an ensign BOFF could be a more viable new BoP. Or just giving it 3 rear slot weapons. But I would never increase its hull/shields.
Yes I get that the Bop got called a "raider" at some point by the devs so they could justify killing it spec wise at every turn.
That's not what happened.
Cryptic followed a very clear thematic legacy from City of Heros in some of their (early) design.
Cruisers = "Tanker" Archtype (sacrifices offense for defense)
Escort (and raptor) = "Scrapper" Archtype DPS w/ Decent survivability
Raider = Stalker Archtype surprise/stealth strike low survivability, was generally TRIBBLE at PvE and mostly excelled at Open PvP instances (there were no arena challenge matches).
I think in this game the BoP suffers from a lack of open world PvP, which is where it has better usage.
Arena, is exactly that, it's just a gladiator situation and environmentally speaking the BoP isn't really suited for it.
This would be shooting at Kumari and Vesta all in one.
Yes, and my question still stands on why you think these BoPs should be escort level survivability but also retain all of their flexibility, gain more offense, and keep all of their stealth advantages.
Whether or not we agree the Devs were successful they felt they were taking something away from the Kumari in order to give it what they did.
It didn't get Ltc Uni.
The 5 tac console version got a terrible BOFF layout.
It has a base turn rate of the Patrol Escort.
It got old Cstore Escort (Defiant, MVAE, HEC) Shield mod and not the Fleet or better than Feet shield mods that the Ody/Vesta got.
Basically I see this as a request for Escorts that have battle cloaks and all uni boff stations.
I didn't want to be accused of asking for 2 much... but ya that would sure be ideal... but at this point even 4 feels like a massive upgrade.
Someone else mentioned the hull was close to a regular escort... well ya that was sort of my point in every way the BOP IS the klink escort... this Raider idea is DEV speak for we don't want to deal with QQ so this is our reasoning for slashing hull and shield numbers all the time. Really though if it ended up with hull numbers = to what a fleet Hegh would get that would be fine... leave the other upgrades but leave the raider hull and people would be happy... the shield though sorry IMO its not up for debate... Cryptic has at every turn made sure the Klingon faction has had next to no shields. We get lower shield numbers on every ship... THIS far no farther. Its time for the BOP to get the same numbers as a 50 year old fed ship... 0.9 puts it where it should be... no more of these crazy 0.7 type bop shielding numbers. The Hegh is a .8 I don't think its hard to believe that the klinks could juice another 10% out of a 20 year old design.
I share the thoughts, Bops need the ensign boff station, they also need the aft weapon to be decent, this new pack could turn the kdf side back to normal, make your own sci bop, eng bop or what you like, I'd pay for that pack.
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
People really overrate the value of a fifth console... in a BoP it sort of makes sense (well, not really) but I wouldn't give up any of its innate advantages for it.
I didn't want to be accused of asking for 2 much... but ya that would sure be ideal... but at this point even 4 feels like a massive upgrade.
Someone else mentioned the hull was close to a regular escort... well ya that was sort of my point in every way the BOP IS the klink escort... this Raider idea is DEV speak for we don't want to deal with QQ so this is our reasoning for slashing hull and shield numbers all the time. Really though if it ended up with hull numbers = to what a fleet Hegh would get that would be fine... leave the other upgrades but leave the raider hull and people would be happy... the shield though sorry IMO its not up for debate... Cryptic has at every turn made sure the Klingon faction has had next to no shields. We get lower shield numbers on every ship... THIS far no farther. Its time for the BOP to get the same numbers as a 50 year old fed ship... 0.9 puts it where it should be... no more of these crazy 0.7 type bop shielding numbers. The Hegh is a .8 I don't think its hard to believe that the klinks could juice another 10% out of a 20 year old design.
I believe that a Kumari template broke whatever was considered reasonable.
A 10-console fleet equivalent rolled into zstore with 5 tac consoles and 5/2 - right there's my mandate. I need look no further.
Why should the KDF be content with scraps, because that's what we have been fed for so long {queue epic Braveheart sequence... ye' foigot ye' God givin ruight LOL}
Someone else mentioned the hull was close to a regular escort... well ya that was sort of my point in every way the BOP IS the klink escort...
Well, clearly it isn't - even though you might want it to be.
If you took your proposal, made it a Raptor, Removed the battle cloak (standard cloak) and gave them some Uni boff stations (Ltc/Ensign) with fixed CMD/Lt/Lt stations like the Ody/Vesta, and dropped Turn rate to 15 to 17 it would be much more realistic.
Then maybe the 3 piece console bonus would be a 10 to 20s battle cloak on 3 min cooldown.
What your asking for is not an Escort.
You're asking for an Escort that is also a Stealth Hit & Run Striker.
Even though I agree that BoPs may need a small boost, some people are already complaining that the escorts can tank almost as well as a cruiser (dont know how, but anyways thats not the point), so they would see this BoPs as real monsters.
An extra tac console OR an extra fore weapon at the cost of chainging a lt. BOFF for an ensign BOFF could be a more viable new BoP. Or just giving it 3 rear slot weapons. But I would never increase its hull/shields.
We already have those...
Fl. Ning'tao Retrofit... Commander / Lt Commander / Lt Commander / LT .... My version would have the same number of boffs but trade one down to an ensign
Fleet Hoh'SuS... has a 4th tac console
Frankly I am not talking Fleet ships here.
The feds have fleet versions of the defiant / patrol / advanced / mvam / escort... there all good ships... but they are not going to be on par with the new Cstore Cash grab Andorian ship are they. Perhaps we can argue it a bit... but I think most agree the Andorian will be the go to escort if you don't own a JEM.
Klinks need a ship to combat the Andorian... no we don't need some new faction or gorn or naus... we need a KLINGON ship and the BOP is the Canon klink ship... there is D7 Neg... and BOP. Those are the klink ships... so if we are going to juice up a cash grab 3 pack for the klinks what better ship to use.
As far as the hull and shield go... anyone that has flown a bop and a fed escort will tell you now there is no comparison. The numbers I proposed put it half way... its still way off the "escort" class hull and shielding at this point. Is it on par with the old MK X ships ... yes why should it not be. Its time for the feds to fight Klingons on a level battle field... one that hasn't been level in at least 2 years now.
Comments
..Yeah...I think I'll stay silent, grab a six pack of bloodcola and a tub of Orion fried Gacht and watch the fireworks from my cloaked bop...
..Incoming!
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
(It has only 4 tactical consoles but it has more hull and battle cloak.It is ok)
I will buy such a 3 pack when Cryptic decide to make it available.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
My thoughts exactly
That would be swell, and yes the BoP deserves a bump. However, just as with the Galaxy, making a useful BoP will never happen. The ship is too iconic, so in the long run, no-one would be truly compelled to make further ship purchases. Hence, these ships that everybody wants to fly need to remain weak.
I have very bad predictions about my beloved romulan warbird. But even with the BO layout of the T3 Galaxy, and the hull and shields of the bop. It the one ship i really want to fly.
Is it may yet?
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I don't think its unreasonable.
The Klingon escorts have always been miss handled by cryptic... the raptor was always bad and mostly hated... the naus ships where fun but in the end no exactly fantastic ships... and bottom line they didn't feel Klingon which I believe effected there sales by a large margin.
The klingon escort ships half always been terrible... 1 they are very un klink. I am not even sure what the raptor is... not only is it a pretty meh design in game its ugly... and I would bet sales of items for the fleet versions would reflect that. The naus ships don't get me started they are solid escorts... but they are so very un klink.
The bird of prey is Iconic... and it would sell like all Iconic ships do. For every Fan that is willing to dish out $ for a Hot dog and paper plate iconic fed ship... there is at least one that loves the Industrial Light and magic Bird of Prey so much they will also drop some $. Its to bad the Hegh is so ugly... a classic b'rel model is the real Made for Mr. Nimoy, Mcoy. Still that ship exists end game so I think the Hegh is the likely skin to use.
Indeed I see your point... if you can uber Enterprise why do you want that fuggly ferengi one... ect.
Of course the best bop models are already used by the fleet versions... The B'rel hands down the best best, and the first bop design. Is already in use. The Norg which looks like an updated B'rel is also used. Leaves the Hegh a Cryptic abomination verison of the bop design... that still looks bop enough to be called one... but again it isn't really The ILM bop is it.
I don't know they can't do up a raptor... no one is ever going to drop $ on a raptor... and with no seeming plan to do much with the Klink faction (for sure if romms really are coming) what harm could it really do to there future sales. Besides we all know Cryptic is all about the quick $.
You mean the Romulan Warbird with 2 tac consoles, 5 turn rate, battle cloak and no dual cannons ? :P
It could also come with one of these:
Overcharged Disruptors
The hull damage resistance debuff from these disruptors is twice as effective as standard disruptors.
Hadron Disruptors
These also apply a damage resistance debuff to shields.
You could put purple [Acc][Dmg] on the ship and MK XII with other mods in the dil store. That way you could sell the unlock to people who just want the weapons.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
I hope that a Romulan faction's vessels would be as sci-focused as Fed ships are Eng-focused and KDF ships are Tac-focused.
I might buy this proposed BoP set. Maybe. I've paid money, not farmed dil, for a number of ships previously, almost all KDF. I dunno, for me it'd be all about trading the 23 turning rate and 80 inertia of the B'Rel Retrofit for the extra rear mount and ensign boff slot, unless the console set was really neat stuff. I'd rather see a super flexible BoP than a BoP with a rear mount and an extra boff slot. More turning, more speed. Maybe a variant that gets shields like a sci ship but hull like a Hoh'Sus.
I'd really like to see some better sci-focused ships for the KDF, but... I think tacs are boring. :P I just think it sucks that our best sci ship is the CStore Varanus, a KDF equivalent of the Fed's (free) DSSV, discounting the Temporal.
Well, any which way you slice it, there's plenty of room for things to happen.
Just like the Vesta, Kumari and Odyssey lines of ships are the feds archetypical cruiser, science and escort, this 3 ships would *exemplify* the Klingon Art of War. However, it would be more realistic with a turnrate of 17 or 18. Nothing in canon suggests that a bop turns much better than a Defiant
Nevertheless, you would have my money for that ship pack.
Well I gave it exactly 1 point more then the current Hegh... I don't think it should be a downgrade in turn that won't fly or sell.
Worst case it would be equal to the ship that already exists... of course the fleet defiant got a bump over the standard one.
Your idea has:
1) Near Escort levels of hull (Cstore defiant has base 30K IIRC)
2) Given them standard Escort/Raptor shield mods (not fleet level)
3) Given them an extra rear weapon
4) Given them an ensign station
*But they have completely retained their Uni boff layouts, built-in battle cloaks, higher than 20 base turn rates and also get a special console on top of it.
So basically a slightly light escort that retains every advantage of the Raider class (which is not an escort class, and really was never meant to be - and only has major issues in Arena PvP IMO which is an environment they are not really designed for).
I know in the face of 5 fore weapon Escorts this seems a silly question, but where is the compromise on these ships?
Or is this just a "balance is already gone, let's just go with it" concept?
Also, realistically speaking, do you actually for a moment think that Cryptic could sell this ship pack with zero new artwork and actually satisfy players that are apparently upset that they don't have to level from 1 to 20?
New artwork is where they lose money on new ships that do not sell well enough, almost everything else is just numbers on a spreadsheet.
This is why Fleet ships are free money maker that have zero risk, they are pure profit:
They recycle art
They are per character unlocks
Many of them are 4 Fleet ship modules, or cost a full Cstore ship (2k to 2.5K zen) plus an additional fleet ship module.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
(And 5 tac consoles would be nice.)
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Fleet defiant didn't go into the Cstore as a 3 pack either did it. There are fleet bops to if you want a slighly better then the hegh option.
This would be shooting at Kumari and Vesta all in one. The defiant as much as we all love it in canon was dropped by star fleet and nothing more then a handful of the class where made. The bop on the other hand was build to last... parts from one where used in the next... in canon that ist he bop. Its the MIG fighter of the Star Trek world... where parts from a previous model will fit in a new model if you need to.
IF the klinks where to design a new ship to compete with the people they are supposed to be at war with... they would USE the bop platform to do it... they wouldn't go raiding gorn or naus ships... and they wouldn't likely be building things from the ground up... they are at war. They would take there massive fleet of existing bops and upgrade em.
Are the stats better then existing bops... yes how else do you ask people to drop 50 bucks on 3 ships. lol
Lets all be honest though... the Raptor blows... the Naus ships blow... the Klinks don't have an escort... and we can argue the points of the raptor all we want... bottom line the feds have every good escort option in the game... if you gave the feds the raptor how many would trade in there Fleet Defiants... or patrols... or advanced. or MVAMS... or Fleet Escort Retros.... NONE that's how many.
Yes I get that the Bop got called a "raider" at some point by the devs so they could justify killing it spec wise at every turn. Lets... give the klink faction the unique nature they deserve... its Cra* that all these new klinks are flying around in anything other then a bop... but they all do... frankly I don't blame them Cryptic has quite on purpose made the bop terrible.
I agree fleet ships are a great money maker... and with the specs I am proposing it wouldn't be "fleet" level it would be cash grab level and that's fine... the other faction has multiple cash grabs in the cstore now. Why not even it up.
To answer your question YES balance is out the window already... Vesta and Kumari 100% prove that fact. So why are they NOT cashing in on the Klink players.... seriously if the specs I proposed hit the cstore... do you think it wouldn't sell ? of course it would because its slighly op.... but you could argue that it doesn't break balance at all... and frankly I would put my money on a team built out of Kumari and vestas vs a "Retro Hegh" team any day. Is the design I propose really out of line with what the 2 new 3 pack fed ships offer... not at all... in fact I went tame.
As far as people being upset about 1-20... who cares... less BS leveling sounds good to me. Klink content... who cares don't waste your time. As long as my klink toons can do the featured stuff I don't care about klink content. People that play Klink mainly do for PvP or/and to fly a klink ship... klink missions... the badly written Cryptic style no thanks. I'll roll around the one pvp zone we have and the ques role playing my Klink warrior doing what Klink warriors do...
Man I sure would love to drop $50 on a new bop though Cryptic.
Hegh'ta (Tactical Version BOP refit)
Battle Cloak
Type:Raider
Hull:28,000
Shield 0.9
Crew 100
Turn Rate:22
Impulse Modifier:0.20
Inertia rating:60
Bonus Power:+15 weapons power
Boffs.
Commander / Lt. Commander / Lt / Lt / Ensign
Consoles
5 Tactical
2 Sci
3 Engi
Fore Weapons 4 Hard points
Rear Weapons 3 Hard points
Adapted Dominion Synergy Device
They get thier own versions of the BOP and raptors/ andorian escorts AND they are better then whats in the KDF?
And the fact they have nerfed the BOP to death is just sad i agree the BOP is the ultimate symbol of the klingon empire and its a raider?
And now we have the rom faction set to debut in may YET the KDF isnt even finished?
Sounds to me alot of bias from the CRYPTIC development team.
You see that Cryptic your customers are willing to THROW money at you for offering even a token show of support for the Klingon faction. Make a real show in terms of playability and you don't even have to call the art dept... recycle it all.
Nonetheless the BoP needs some serious love.....
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
Thats exactly what I was going to say.
Even though I agree that BoPs may need a small boost, some people are already complaining that the escorts can tank almost as well as a cruiser (dont know how, but anyways thats not the point), so they would see this BoPs as real monsters.
An extra tac console OR an extra fore weapon at the cost of chainging a lt. BOFF for an ensign BOFF could be a more viable new BoP. Or just giving it 3 rear slot weapons. But I would never increase its hull/shields.
That's not what happened.
Cryptic followed a very clear thematic legacy from City of Heros in some of their (early) design.
Cruisers = "Tanker" Archtype (sacrifices offense for defense)
Escort (and raptor) = "Scrapper" Archtype DPS w/ Decent survivability
Raider = Stalker Archtype surprise/stealth strike low survivability, was generally TRIBBLE at PvE and mostly excelled at Open PvP instances (there were no arena challenge matches).
I think in this game the BoP suffers from a lack of open world PvP, which is where it has better usage.
Arena, is exactly that, it's just a gladiator situation and environmentally speaking the BoP isn't really suited for it.
Yes, and my question still stands on why you think these BoPs should be escort level survivability but also retain all of their flexibility, gain more offense, and keep all of their stealth advantages.
Whether or not we agree the Devs were successful they felt they were taking something away from the Kumari in order to give it what they did.
It didn't get Ltc Uni.
The 5 tac console version got a terrible BOFF layout.
It has a base turn rate of the Patrol Escort.
It got old Cstore Escort (Defiant, MVAE, HEC) Shield mod and not the Fleet or better than Feet shield mods that the Ody/Vesta got.
Basically I see this as a request for Escorts that have battle cloaks and all uni boff stations.
I didn't want to be accused of asking for 2 much... but ya that would sure be ideal... but at this point even 4 feels like a massive upgrade.
Someone else mentioned the hull was close to a regular escort... well ya that was sort of my point in every way the BOP IS the klink escort... this Raider idea is DEV speak for we don't want to deal with QQ so this is our reasoning for slashing hull and shield numbers all the time. Really though if it ended up with hull numbers = to what a fleet Hegh would get that would be fine... leave the other upgrades but leave the raider hull and people would be happy... the shield though sorry IMO its not up for debate... Cryptic has at every turn made sure the Klingon faction has had next to no shields. We get lower shield numbers on every ship... THIS far no farther. Its time for the BOP to get the same numbers as a 50 year old fed ship... 0.9 puts it where it should be... no more of these crazy 0.7 type bop shielding numbers. The Hegh is a .8 I don't think its hard to believe that the klinks could juice another 10% out of a 20 year old design.
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I believe that a Kumari template broke whatever was considered reasonable.
A 10-console fleet equivalent rolled into zstore with 5 tac consoles and 5/2 - right there's my mandate. I need look no further.
Why should the KDF be content with scraps, because that's what we have been fed for so long {queue epic Braveheart sequence... ye' foigot ye' God givin ruight LOL}
Well, clearly it isn't - even though you might want it to be.
If you took your proposal, made it a Raptor, Removed the battle cloak (standard cloak) and gave them some Uni boff stations (Ltc/Ensign) with fixed CMD/Lt/Lt stations like the Ody/Vesta, and dropped Turn rate to 15 to 17 it would be much more realistic.
Then maybe the 3 piece console bonus would be a 10 to 20s battle cloak on 3 min cooldown.
What your asking for is not an Escort.
You're asking for an Escort that is also a Stealth Hit & Run Striker.
It wont be the best PVE ship, but it can still be given good use.
We already have those...
Fl. Ning'tao Retrofit... Commander / Lt Commander / Lt Commander / LT .... My version would have the same number of boffs but trade one down to an ensign
Fleet Hoh'SuS... has a 4th tac console
Frankly I am not talking Fleet ships here.
The feds have fleet versions of the defiant / patrol / advanced / mvam / escort... there all good ships... but they are not going to be on par with the new Cstore Cash grab Andorian ship are they. Perhaps we can argue it a bit... but I think most agree the Andorian will be the go to escort if you don't own a JEM.
Klinks need a ship to combat the Andorian... no we don't need some new faction or gorn or naus... we need a KLINGON ship and the BOP is the Canon klink ship... there is D7 Neg... and BOP. Those are the klink ships... so if we are going to juice up a cash grab 3 pack for the klinks what better ship to use.
As far as the hull and shield go... anyone that has flown a bop and a fed escort will tell you now there is no comparison. The numbers I proposed put it half way... its still way off the "escort" class hull and shielding at this point. Is it on par with the old MK X ships ... yes why should it not be. Its time for the feds to fight Klingons on a level battle field... one that hasn't been level in at least 2 years now.