Well bottom line... this is a game... not a RP recreation.
So lets look the 3 classes and see what roles are filled.
Klingon
Cruisers - CHECK... the Klinks have multiple fantastic cruiser designs. A ton that are very usable good fleet cruiser options... and even nice iconic D7 Style and Neg style skins.
No issues with cruisers
Escorts - Raptor - Hands down the worst Escort in the game... and you won't get a real argument FOR the raptor from anyone... people fly it if they really really want an escort klink side... and really most of those people fly one of the naus ships if they really want a KDF escort. SO.... Fail
Science - Gorn Varnus - The ONE and only KDF science ship option... it is a mirror of the worst of the Federation Science ship layouts... it has gotten a few buffs but in general it is found lacking and rarely used. I know I said this is not a RP recreation... however its still NOT a Klingon ship... sorry its GORN and I don't remember seeing them at the meetings. lol
So from a game point of view what do the Klinks need end game to pull ship balance close to even... well they need a science option and they need a real honest escort option.
NOW I don't want mirror factions... that's boring as all heck. As far as I know (not sure if they know however) the Devs don't want a mirror faction either. They want the Klingons and likely the Romulans to be Unique....
So what makes the Klingons Unique... and what could solve both ship issues in ONE simple to implement update.
That's right re read my OP.... A C Store BOP that can return the Sci Bop to the field .... a field it has mostly hasn't been on in over 2 years due to Federation science ship power creep. (really thinking about that more I should have suggested an even more radical Science bop variant with Sensor Ann and perhaps even Sub targeting)
The escort issue... YA I still don't understand how the Raptor a Canon SCOUT vessel ended up being the base for the STO Klingon faction escort designs... but none the less its to much like the fed ships anyway... and doesn't really make the faction unique imo... its really a bad defiant that turns worse... looks terrible, and has such bad pivot issues that it is unplayable. So lets just stagnate the Raptor... and Go forward with renewed BOPS... who cares if the new bops obsolete a few KDF ships... Cryptic has been doing that with Federation Cstore ships for 2 years now.
In any event I hope its clear where I am coming from... I do appreciate the "trek" stuff and I think all the canon really says the BOP is multi role and is really the back bone of the KDF fleet... yes they have cruisers but for almost every other role they use a bop. Small ones for scouting... medium ones for raiding and general warfare... and large ones even that act like faster more agile cruisers. (think Excel).
Most of the point of my op is its an idea that could be brain stormed by Cryptic... programmed and have all the associated Art completed in ONE day of work... and it would right 2 of the major imbalances in the ship rosters of the two factions over night. If they want to go further and add honestly Klingon science ship options ect later let them the fed ship parade isn't over and the roms are coming.
There is no doubt that the klinks have been badly neglected. Will just get worse with another semi faction so is introducing another faction before klinks get parity a good idea?
There is no doubt that the klinks have been badly neglected. Will just get worse with another semi faction so is introducing another faction before klinks get parity a good idea?
Well, from my perspective Cryptic does not try to create equal factions. There simply is not enough players. If 80% players are Starfleet fanboys (guilty as charged hehe), then 80% of devs attention goes to that side. It's kind of logical from bussiness point.
So I guess we will end up with Federation as being main faction, with several smaller factions for other fanboy.
But ye, I would prefer to see much more BoPs on Klingon Side, so I support this idea.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Well, from my perspective Cryptic does not try to create equal factions. There simply is not enough players. If 80% players are Starfleet fanboys (guilty as charged hehe), then 80% of devs attention goes to that side. It's kind of logical from bussiness point.
So I guess we will end up with Federation as being main faction, with several smaller factions for other fanboy.
But ye, I would prefer to see much more BoPs on Klingon Side, so I support this idea.
I agree completely... if I owned Cryptic I would have them releasing Fed ships as well. Lets be honest Fed ships sell likely 10x more units then Klink packs.
That's where my idea comes in... very little output. Klingon players don't want new skins for some obscure race that was associated with the Empire back in some non canon book. I don't expect Cryptic to spend weeks perfecting new skins and designing entire new ship classes.
Just take the one in game that can be tweeked to fill the missing roles... use existing skins that WE LOVE and will buy again anyway.
Quick and dirty is fine with the Klingon population... and we will open our wallets to make it a $ gain for Cryptic. They won't loose money... and there dev time will not have been more profitable working on a new Kilt skin or tech to make said Klit ruffle right when you high kick for Neverwinter that day... and I they shouldn't have to spend more time then that on a bop pack.
Sure some feds will belly ache on the forums for a few days when they announce it but so what... those feds don't que for FvK now... so how would it effect them anyway... I guess when they STF if they get teamed with a BOP... they won't have to watch them respawn 10x from Cube one shots.
i dont mind as much the kdf not getting extravagant releases, but a bone should be thrown once in a wile. that fleet qin, 5th weapon, give the sides a little parity for once.
the fleet bops actually got a hull buff as well you know, theres 2 very good choices for +1 bops, a 3rd once kdf fleets get tier 5 yards.
actually things that deal spike should be getting no buff, pressure needs a flat increase in effect. yet in the face of that need, we get the new king of spike. pay attention to in game conditions cryptic, not terrible ideas made by marketing
i dont mind as much the kdf not getting extravagant releases, but a bone should be thrown once in a wile. that fleet qin, 5th weapon, give the sides a little parity for once.
the fleet bops actually got a hull buff as well you know, theres 2 very good choices for +1 bops, a 3rd once kdf fleets get tier 5 yards.
actually things that deal spike should be getting no buff, pressure needs a flat increase in effect. yet in the face of that need, we get the new king of spike. pay attention to in game conditions cryptic, not terrible ideas made by marketing
Yes they are ok... I own then both...
They are OK and that is all.. they are good... they are still out classed bottom line.
Your right as well... I didn't ask for an uber spike bop... frankly the Norg is still going to be better at that with 3 Lt. Command slots.
I asked for a bop with a bit more hull and shield... (a 4th console in the tac slot won't boost spike a ton) a third rear weapon... won't help spike. They will effect presure which the bop lacks now... and the extra hull... same deal... honestly it won't even help a ton there.
However I think my point is made... I want to be able to field a team with battle cruisers and bops... where there might be an option to extend a bop and do some dmg... and not have it go POP through bleed dmg alone.
While I'm taking the quote below from another thread -- I think it's relevant because the OP's suggestion ignores the missing 5 Tac consoles form the KDF side :
while i still am annoyed that the feds keep getting 5 tac console ships and kdf has one, a bort which nobody uses in pvp, i disagree on the diminishing returns, there are diminishing returns on console stacking.
Right now we have what 2-3 fed escort type ships w/5 Tac consoles .
Some of these can be classified as 'light escorts' some as 'heavy escorts' .
I still want to see a KDF equivalent to both type of ships , with a BOP getting the 'light' version and a Raptor getting a 'heavy' version -- with possible variants , such as a more durable K'Vort 'heavy' BOP that looses some turn rate in exchange for an engineer-tactical console layout .
I want something new...I don't want another same old bop with a bit of a boost. I want a fresh ship...we haven't gotten a truly fresh, new, and original ship since before STO went f2p.
I think its about time we got something new, besides...even if this was made the Peghqu' makes it inferior and if there is ever a fleet version the Peghqu' will only be better.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Right now we have what 2-3 fed escort type ships w/5 Tac consoles .
Some of these can be classified as 'light escorts' some as 'heavy escorts' .
I still want to see a KDF equivalent to both type of ships , with a BOP getting the 'light' version and a Raptor getting a 'heavy' version -- with possible variants , such as a more durable K'Vort 'heavy' BOP that looses some turn rate in exchange for an engineer-tactical console layout .
Honestly I didn't suggest a 5th console... because I am not looking for an uber striking alpha bop. Yes a 5th console on a bop... I'll admit it it would be op. As it is now we can pull off one shots with the Norg and 3 slots... we don't need 5 to juice our overload hy combos out of cloak.
What we NEED is a bop that can in fact not be a liability in a premade setup. A bop that with some minor battle cruiser support can hang long enough to not have to run 30k away all the time... and sentence the team to being down one all the time... its worse when you consider idealy you would want a sci bop as well....
Can you imagine a team of 3 Battle cruisers... 1 Pure dmg 1 Support and debuff... and 1 pure healing ... with a Sci bop + Tac Bop combo.....
Right now that team would get EATEN alive by even the worst of fed teams... because frankly the bops simply can't stay in the fight long enough. The Klink cruisers CAN be pretty good support ships... not in the healing numbers range of the Fed options... still the main issue is trying to keep a bop alive that is under fire from more then one ship is a night mare. Even if there shields are at 100% and there extended... they'll die to bleed.
As far as updating the Raptor goes... sure what ever throw a 5th console on there... no one will buy it anyway because the raptor is a complete piece of junk. Heck if there going to do a 5th console .... release a Guramba Siege Destroyer. At least its a usable ship.
Lets all be honest though... the Raptor blows... the Naus ships blow...
Can't say I agree with that .
The Guramba was great (until the nerf) -- and is still a good PVE ship , and a nice enough spport ship in PVP .
Nothing wrong with the Raptor -- in fact I think it's the ship that got the most BOFF variants on the KDF side (mirror + fleet) .
Well, from my perspective Cryptic does not try to create equal factions. There simply is not enough players. If 80% players are Starfleet fanboys (guilty as charged hehe), then 80% of devs attention goes to that side. It's kind of logical from bussiness point.
So I guess we will end up with Federation as being main faction, with several smaller factions for other fanboy.
But ye, I would prefer to see much more BoPs on Klingon Side, so I support this idea.
This why I push for a complete KDF rather than a equal one. We can be a complete 1 to endgame faction without being equal in cpntent to the feds. Though in fairness the content to fill the lower levels of the KDF needs to be just KDF only content.
I see that in the latest time cryptic do everything to pile the klingon faction , giving to the feds even more powerfull and new ships while they expect that we keep on fighting in our old BOPs or in our even older raptors .. ha ... i will not wonder if they soon will give to the feds a free bug ship equivalent just to make us gone ( i wonder if the cryptic want that KDF faction to be soon dead or mostly disolve) ... so .... NO ... cryptic will NOT give us any kind of new ships (BOP or raptors) , they will consider that the rising some numbers in the present ships its enough for us .. and hell if you dont like it ..go to the feds (cryptic philosophy)
I still dont think the Klingon faction needs a more resilient Bird-of-Prey looking like an escort. For that purpose just fix the Raptors.
The hull/shield of the raiders should stay as it is. But if escorts have even access to the cloaking device there is absolutely no counterpart in the Birds of Prey. They need a boost somehow.
So I suggest we surrender to the feds. War is over.
Honestly I didn't suggest a 5th console... because I am not looking for an uber striking alpha bop. Yes a 5th console on a bop... I'll admit it it would be op.
Plz don't take this as a personal attack , but how long will you keep up that song & dance ?
The Fed's are getting (slowly) more and more 5 console ships (at least one of which happens to have the option for a cloaking device) .
In simple terms this means Alpha Strike w/5 Tac consoles .
If it's good enough for them ... .
As it is now we can pull off one shots with the Norg and 3 slots... we don't need 5 to juice our overload hy combos out of cloak.
Ok , 2 things I need to admit here : I hate the Norg's look (I wanna play in a BOP , but that ain't it ) , and I STF more that PVP , thus I'd like a BOP w/a little more "staying power" .
(I STF-ed a lot in a BOP prior to S.5 -- I loved to PVP with that ship as well)
What we NEED is a bop that can in fact not be a liability in a premade setup. A bop that with some minor battle cruiser support can hang long enough to not have to run 30k away all the time... and sentence the team to being down one all the time...
I see that in the latest time cryptic do everything to pile the klingon faction , giving to the feds even more powerfull and new ships while they expect that we keep on fighting in our old BOPs or in our even older raptors .. ha ... i will not wonder if they soon will give to the feds a free bug ship equivalent just to make us gone ( i wonder if the cryptic want that KDF faction to be soon dead or mostly disolve) ... so .... NO ... cryptic will NOT give us any kind of new ships (BOP or raptors) , they will consider that the rising some numbers in the present ships its enough for us .. and hell if you dont like it ..go to the feds (cryptic philosophy)
The KDF may be getting more ships in he future according to the P1 Al Riveria interview. Al blatantly states the KDF neefs some ships and even talks about some ideas. So it MAY happen....
I still dont think the Klingon faction needs a more resilient Bird-of-Prey looking like an escort. For that purpose just fix the Raptors.
The hull/shield of the raiders should stay as it is. But if escorts have even access to the cloaking device there is absolutely no counterpart in the Birds of Prey. They need a boost somehow.
So I suggest we surrender to the feds. War is over.
<back hand> Surrender!? Turn in your ridges, warrior!
The KDF doesnt surrender because the feds got a SmurfCort.
The KDF may be getting more ships in he future according to the P1 Al Riveria interview. Al blatantly states the KDF neefs some ships and even talks about some ideas. So it MAY happen....
That May thing it is not enough, sorry
And again it May be a joke of a ship with power but something you can't use it.
On the other hand Kumari is a good ship in the hands of a good pilot.Was blown a couple of times by some panda's .It seems panda's consider kumari tactical variant a very potent ship.And yes it is in field
So federation has 2 ships with 5 tactical consoles : fleet defiant and kumari tactical
version .which has 5 DHC too
What they could give kdf to balance the game ?Will they do that ?
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
I agree with everybody else that KDF doesnt get half the support/attention the federation side gets. And I think saying half is probably too much.
Calling it SmurfCort is a bit offensive. You are showing disrespect to the smurfs and you shall retract your words or behold the wrath of Papa Smurf.
Nobody is saying we havent been treated like what the targ drags his butt across the floor to dislodge.
Who knows, maybe the average fed ego is so fragile they need there hands held for combat so the Devs have made them some uberships. It would be the moneyplay thing to do and would not surprise me.
If I apoligize, will I get some alone time with Smurfette? I could use a little blue.
Nobody is saying we havent been treated like what the targ drags his butt across the floor to dislodge.
Who knows, maybe the average fed ego is so fragile they need there hands held for combat so the Devs have made them some uberships. It would be the moneyplay thing to do and would not surprise me.
If I apoligize, will I get some alone time with Smurfette? I could use a little blue.
yes yes roach, my ego is so fragile I need an uber ship. Too bad my Galaxy is not uber, but cannon fodder against those lovely battlecruisers of your neglected faction :P
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
yes yes roach, my ego is so fragile I need an uber ship. Too bad my Galaxy is not uber, but cannon fodder against those lovely battlecruisers of your neglected faction :P
Missed that word "maybe" did you? Maybe the fed ego is fragile. As in the possibilty cpuld exist but nobody knows for sure.
Its not like egoes dont get bent out of shape all the time in the game.
Ok so the Vesta rolled around and now the Andorian escort to the Cstore... and no Klink mirror of either, as with the oddy pack.
Here is the solution Cryptic.
The Bird Of Prey.
Yes the proto typical Klingon vessel.... the ship that DEFINES what it is to be a Klingon warrior. Its versatility coming from modular design... a ship that can be held together by spit and glue if needed.. and keep fighting. The ship that CRYPTIC has been kicking in the teeth for 3 years.
We know Cryptic is very concerned that if they give the Evil Klinks a proper bop the game may end... balance will be destroyed... rivers will boil ect.
Come on we Klinks lived through the ridiculous B'Rel you released. You where scared no doubt that somehow letting a ship with 24k base hull operate properly the game would have died. Well you did in fact correct the mistake eventually. (thanks for that again I guess)... really though when we see the great concern for balance shown with the vesta and now the Kumari it does make all the old school klinkers chuckle. No balance concerns when it involves fed ship design... move along.
Then there was the fleet debacle... Yes that's what I'm calling it... the Norg... one of my new favorite ships... now that you have given it enough hull to only go pop half as often as it did when it had less hull then a cstore shuttle. LOL Klingon balance Ha.
I will also say that many of the fleet bops don't get the fleet vessel console treatment and that is insulting.
Anyway I will stop sounding negative and get to the point... I am going to show you a way to make MONEY for doing very very minimal work... and make customers happy which will in fact make you more Money... see where I'm going here... pay attention now... $$$$ you can make some easy $$$$$.
Hegh'ta Heavy Bird-of-Prey Retrofit - CSTORE 3 Pack
The Klingon High command, in an effort to strengthen the front lines of the empire. Have tasked the Klingon Defense Force with updating the warfare systems on the empires highest surplus of ships and ship components. The results of their efforts is the New and improved Hegh'ta, Haj and QulDun class Bird of Prey designs. Owing to the Bird of Preys highly modular design that has served the Empire in the battle theater for years, the 3 new Bird classes have been rolled out as Refits of outwardly familiar designs. However looks can be deceiving as all 3 of these new Birds of Prey have the latest in Klingon technology. Recent improvements in multiple studies have provided the Empire with 3 highly adaptable base platforms that her warriors can put to great use. The Klingon Defense force has also developed 3 new systems incorporating captured battle technologies that can be tied into the Bird of Preys systems. To compliment the added fire power of the Hegh'ta class Design Klingon Scientists have tied in a captured Dominion Synergy unit adapting it for use with Klingon standard Disruptor weaponry. This unit operates for short periods of time, boosting the strength of the ships disruptor weaponry, however it is prone to over heating and will off line for a predictable amount of time. Klingon scientists have also used captured Federation technology to enhance the sensors of the Haj bird of prey design. This unit when installed in the Haj weapon platform will provide a instant boost to sensor resolution, applying a 10 stack of sensor analysis to a target. Being that the systems are so vastly different they have only been able to achieve this feat for short durations of time of course a wise warrior will make good use of this advantage. With the QulDun class engineers have been able to adapt a small part of the gorn self repair technology that has served the empire well in the Varnus class of science vessel. This additional piece of tech will launch a small contingent of cloaking self repair drones that will follow and repair any external damage the vessel may take in the course of battle. As an added bonus Empire Scientists have been able to enable a system synergy between the adapted units for Commanders deemed worthy enough to be trusted with all 3 adapted systems. By linking all 3 systems the bird of prey is able to engage a AOE field that improves the battle field in the favor of the Empire. This 5k radius field will increase Disruptor dmg passing into it by 10%, it will also enhance sensor systems providing a 10% resistance debuff to enemy vessels as well as improve effected friendly vessels hull repair rate by 100%.
Haj (Science Version BOP refit)
Battle Cloak
Type:Raider
Hull:28,000
Shield 0.9
Crew 100
Turn Rate:22
Impulse Modifier:0.20
Inertia rating:60
Bonus Power:+15 aux power
Boffs.
Commander / Lt. Commander / Lt / Lt / Ensign
Consoles
3 Tactical
4 Sci
3 Engi
Fore Weapons 4 Hard points
Rear Weapons 3 Hard points
Adapted Federation Sensor Unit
QulDun (Engi Version BOP refit)
Battle Cloak
Type:Raider
Hull:28,000
Shield 0.9
Crew 100
Turn Rate:22
Impulse Modifier:0.20
Inertia rating:60
Bonus Power:+10 Engine and Shield power
Boffs.
Commander / Lt. Commander / Lt / Lt / Ensign
Consoles
3 Tactical
3 Sci
4 Engi
Fore Weapons 4 Hard points
Rear Weapons 3 Hard points
Adapted Gorn self repair system
There it is Cryptic... a Kliingon answer to the Kumari AND the Vesta... we don't need mirror klink versions... we need klink ships that are true to the faction... and one of the only classes that fits that bill is the bird of prey... I am hoping that the recent small bump in stats on the norg... is a sign that you understand how badly you have treated the hand down most ICONIC Klingon class of ships in this game.
The Bop DESERVES a ensign slot... another console... and a third rear weapon point.
Sorry but the full uni design is paid for in Hull and shield numbers in spades.
This idea would give you something you could literly WHIP out as I think most of the code exists... the models already exist... and frankly it would sell as well as any of the fed ships you have spent so much more time on.
There are at LEAST 2 BoP versions/skins that havent been brought out yet or been delayed by the F2p transition, one is a b'rel and one is unknown but ive seen the ship in a screeny a big while ago from jamjamz or one of the ship designers.
There are at LEAST 2 BoP versions/skins that havent been brought out yet or been delayed by the F2p transition, one is a b'rel and one is unknown but ive seen the ship in a screeny a big while ago from jamjamz or one of the ship designers.
They just simply get delayed.. no idea why.
Ya they may have some skins in the pipe... I don't know it seems to take them along time to throw the KDF a bone of any kind... they do they buffed the brel and now a couple others... but Klink ships with bad stats will stay that way for much longer then the other factions.
There are 2 confirmed federation c-store shipe that will be revamped among other things
Dan Stahl used to play in game a fleet defiant captain and now loves his new kumari.......
I didn't understood until today why first 5 tactical ships in game (fleet defiant and bortas'q) were so different now I do.Bortas'q was built to have 5 tac consoles and use them only by accident while Fleet defiant was the best raptor in game until kumari and can do very good use of 5 tac consoles.
The kumari is much more powerfull than fleet defiant and I am afraid there will be no kdf response or it May will be a second "bortas'q" aka a ship having firepower but being unable to use it properly
(Which employee would dare to build a ship that is a serious match to his employer's ship's ?)
Edit :Changed last sentence
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
@patrickngo
If ignorance is what is the root of the problem, I just make a proposition that each member of Cryptic that is involved in ship making decisions should have a kdf char and participate in P.V.P with it.
The reason why I made this proposition is because people in general tend to favor their habits many times even not knowingly (it is a general trait not a specific one this one.)
(sometime myself I do such things and later understand why I did choose a over b)
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
the people lol griping that its actually a crappy ship were proboly expecting it to be as stupidly easy to use as a bug, but its not, its a more down to earth ship that takes a little skill to fly it well enough to use its potential. its got the same station setup as a bug and patrol basically, i don't see how anyone could complain about the non tac versions stations. the shields are a bit low, but that didn't stop my kdf vet ship with an even lowwe mod from tanking well and slaughtering this evening. it would have been magic having 2 more turn and a 5th fricking weapon.
the people lol griping that its actually a crappy ship were proboly expecting it to be as stupidly easy to use as a bug, but its not, its a more down to earth ship that takes a little skill to fly it well enough to use its potential. its got the same station setup as a bug and patrol basically, i don't see how anyone could complain about the non tac versions stations. the shields are a bit low, but that didn't stop my kdf vet ship with an even lowwe mod from tanking well and slaughtering this evening. it would have been magic having 2 more turn and a 5th fricking weapon.
Too many folks running around going "Oh, it popped easy! Must be TRIBBLE!" y'know?
Raise your hand if you've ever flown a BoP against a Vesta and popped it with ease?
I see a fair few hands.
Raise your hand if you've ever hit a Heavy Escort Carrier so hard you're sure your name will be feared by the next four generations of its Captain's progeny.
Still seeing hands come up.
Raise your hand if you've cackled with delight as you proceeded blackout and melt Jem'Hadar Attack Ship?
More hands, even more hands.
Raise your hand if you see the point I'm making?
Good, you're smarter than those ones in other threads saying "I killed it, therefore it's worthless." For those that didn't raise their hands, this is for you:
The player always makes the ship, not the other way around.
On the topic of the KDF being out in the cold... it sucks, it's true, and it's a cryin' shame. I don't think you quite hit the nail on the head specs-wise for the BoP's (along, of course, them being the most iconic Klingon ship for folks who grew up with TNG and DS9) but I like the lines along which you think.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Comments
So lets look the 3 classes and see what roles are filled.
Klingon
Cruisers - CHECK... the Klinks have multiple fantastic cruiser designs. A ton that are very usable good fleet cruiser options... and even nice iconic D7 Style and Neg style skins.
No issues with cruisers
Escorts - Raptor - Hands down the worst Escort in the game... and you won't get a real argument FOR the raptor from anyone... people fly it if they really really want an escort klink side... and really most of those people fly one of the naus ships if they really want a KDF escort. SO.... Fail
Science - Gorn Varnus - The ONE and only KDF science ship option... it is a mirror of the worst of the Federation Science ship layouts... it has gotten a few buffs but in general it is found lacking and rarely used. I know I said this is not a RP recreation... however its still NOT a Klingon ship... sorry its GORN and I don't remember seeing them at the meetings.
So from a game point of view what do the Klinks need end game to pull ship balance close to even... well they need a science option and they need a real honest escort option.
NOW I don't want mirror factions... that's boring as all heck. As far as I know (not sure if they know however) the Devs don't want a mirror faction either. They want the Klingons and likely the Romulans to be Unique....
So what makes the Klingons Unique... and what could solve both ship issues in ONE simple to implement update.
That's right re read my OP.... A C Store BOP that can return the Sci Bop to the field .... a field it has mostly hasn't been on in over 2 years due to Federation science ship power creep. (really thinking about that more I should have suggested an even more radical Science bop variant with Sensor Ann and perhaps even Sub targeting)
The escort issue... YA I still don't understand how the Raptor a Canon SCOUT vessel ended up being the base for the STO Klingon faction escort designs... but none the less its to much like the fed ships anyway... and doesn't really make the faction unique imo... its really a bad defiant that turns worse... looks terrible, and has such bad pivot issues that it is unplayable. So lets just stagnate the Raptor... and Go forward with renewed BOPS... who cares if the new bops obsolete a few KDF ships... Cryptic has been doing that with Federation Cstore ships for 2 years now.
In any event I hope its clear where I am coming from... I do appreciate the "trek" stuff and I think all the canon really says the BOP is multi role and is really the back bone of the KDF fleet... yes they have cruisers but for almost every other role they use a bop. Small ones for scouting... medium ones for raiding and general warfare... and large ones even that act like faster more agile cruisers. (think Excel).
Most of the point of my op is its an idea that could be brain stormed by Cryptic... programmed and have all the associated Art completed in ONE day of work... and it would right 2 of the major imbalances in the ship rosters of the two factions over night. If they want to go further and add honestly Klingon science ship options ect later let them the fed ship parade isn't over and the roms are coming.
Well, from my perspective Cryptic does not try to create equal factions. There simply is not enough players. If 80% players are Starfleet fanboys (guilty as charged hehe), then 80% of devs attention goes to that side. It's kind of logical from bussiness point.
So I guess we will end up with Federation as being main faction, with several smaller factions for other fanboy.
But ye, I would prefer to see much more BoPs on Klingon Side, so I support this idea.
I agree completely... if I owned Cryptic I would have them releasing Fed ships as well. Lets be honest Fed ships sell likely 10x more units then Klink packs.
That's where my idea comes in... very little output. Klingon players don't want new skins for some obscure race that was associated with the Empire back in some non canon book. I don't expect Cryptic to spend weeks perfecting new skins and designing entire new ship classes.
Just take the one in game that can be tweeked to fill the missing roles... use existing skins that WE LOVE and will buy again anyway.
Quick and dirty is fine with the Klingon population... and we will open our wallets to make it a $ gain for Cryptic. They won't loose money... and there dev time will not have been more profitable working on a new Kilt skin or tech to make said Klit ruffle right when you high kick for Neverwinter that day... and I they shouldn't have to spend more time then that on a bop pack.
Sure some feds will belly ache on the forums for a few days when they announce it but so what... those feds don't que for FvK now... so how would it effect them anyway... I guess when they STF if they get teamed with a BOP... they won't have to watch them respawn 10x from Cube one shots.
the fleet bops actually got a hull buff as well you know, theres 2 very good choices for +1 bops, a 3rd once kdf fleets get tier 5 yards.
actually things that deal spike should be getting no buff, pressure needs a flat increase in effect. yet in the face of that need, we get the new king of spike. pay attention to in game conditions cryptic, not terrible ideas made by marketing
Yes they are ok... I own then both...
They are OK and that is all.. they are good... they are still out classed bottom line.
Your right as well... I didn't ask for an uber spike bop... frankly the Norg is still going to be better at that with 3 Lt. Command slots.
I asked for a bop with a bit more hull and shield... (a 4th console in the tac slot won't boost spike a ton) a third rear weapon... won't help spike. They will effect presure which the bop lacks now... and the extra hull... same deal... honestly it won't even help a ton there.
However I think my point is made... I want to be able to field a team with battle cruisers and bops... where there might be an option to extend a bop and do some dmg... and not have it go POP through bleed dmg alone.
I am not asking for uber alpha.
Right now we have what 2-3 fed escort type ships w/5 Tac consoles .
Some of these can be classified as 'light escorts' some as 'heavy escorts' .
I still want to see a KDF equivalent to both type of ships , with a BOP getting the 'light' version and a Raptor getting a 'heavy' version -- with possible variants , such as a more durable K'Vort 'heavy' BOP that looses some turn rate in exchange for an engineer-tactical console layout .
I think its about time we got something new, besides...even if this was made the Peghqu' makes it inferior and if there is ever a fleet version the Peghqu' will only be better.
Honestly I didn't suggest a 5th console... because I am not looking for an uber striking alpha bop. Yes a 5th console on a bop... I'll admit it it would be op. As it is now we can pull off one shots with the Norg and 3 slots... we don't need 5 to juice our overload hy combos out of cloak.
What we NEED is a bop that can in fact not be a liability in a premade setup. A bop that with some minor battle cruiser support can hang long enough to not have to run 30k away all the time... and sentence the team to being down one all the time... its worse when you consider idealy you would want a sci bop as well....
Can you imagine a team of 3 Battle cruisers... 1 Pure dmg 1 Support and debuff... and 1 pure healing ... with a Sci bop + Tac Bop combo.....
Right now that team would get EATEN alive by even the worst of fed teams... because frankly the bops simply can't stay in the fight long enough. The Klink cruisers CAN be pretty good support ships... not in the healing numbers range of the Fed options... still the main issue is trying to keep a bop alive that is under fire from more then one ship is a night mare. Even if there shields are at 100% and there extended... they'll die to bleed.
As far as updating the Raptor goes... sure what ever throw a 5th console on there... no one will buy it anyway because the raptor is a complete piece of junk. Heck if there going to do a 5th console .... release a Guramba Siege Destroyer. At least its a usable ship.
Can't say I agree with that .
The Guramba was great (until the nerf) -- and is still a good PVE ship , and a nice enough spport ship in PVP .
Nothing wrong with the Raptor -- in fact I think it's the ship that got the most BOFF variants on the KDF side (mirror + fleet) .
I could see this ... , with perhaps a slightly lowered Turn Rate (20-21) .
This why I push for a complete KDF rather than a equal one. We can be a complete 1 to endgame faction without being equal in cpntent to the feds. Though in fairness the content to fill the lower levels of the KDF needs to be just KDF only content.
R.I.P
The hull/shield of the raiders should stay as it is. But if escorts have even access to the cloaking device there is absolutely no counterpart in the Birds of Prey. They need a boost somehow.
So I suggest we surrender to the feds. War is over.
Plz don't take this as a personal attack , but how long will you keep up that song & dance ?
The Fed's are getting (slowly) more and more 5 console ships (at least one of which happens to have the option for a cloaking device) .
In simple terms this means Alpha Strike w/5 Tac consoles .
If it's good enough for them ... .
Ok , 2 things I need to admit here : I hate the Norg's look (I wanna play in a BOP , but that ain't it
(I STF-ed a lot in a BOP prior to S.5 -- I loved to PVP with that ship as well)
Totally agreed !
<back hand> Surrender!? Turn in your ridges, warrior!
The KDF doesnt surrender because the feds got a SmurfCort.
R.I.P
That May thing it is not enough, sorry
And again it May be a joke of a ship with power but something you can't use it.
On the other hand Kumari is a good ship in the hands of a good pilot.Was blown a couple of times by some panda's .It seems panda's consider kumari tactical variant a very potent ship.And yes it is in field
So federation has 2 ships with 5 tactical consoles : fleet defiant and kumari tactical
version .which has 5 DHC too
What they could give kdf to balance the game ?Will they do that ?
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Calling it SmurfCort is a bit offensive. You are showing disrespect to the smurfs and you shall retract your words or behold the wrath of Papa Smurf.
Nobody is saying we havent been treated like what the targ drags his butt across the floor to dislodge.
Who knows, maybe the average fed ego is so fragile they need there hands held for combat so the Devs have made them some uberships. It would be the moneyplay thing to do and would not surprise me.
If I apoligize, will I get some alone time with Smurfette? I could use a little blue.
R.I.P
yes yes roach, my ego is so fragile I need an uber ship. Too bad my Galaxy is not uber, but cannon fodder against those lovely battlecruisers of your neglected faction :P
Missed that word "maybe" did you? Maybe the fed ego is fragile. As in the possibilty cpuld exist but nobody knows for sure.
Its not like egoes dont get bent out of shape all the time in the game.
R.I.P
and this is the thread I was talking of.
Its a pleasure to meet you.
R.I.P
There are at LEAST 2 BoP versions/skins that havent been brought out yet or been delayed by the F2p transition, one is a b'rel and one is unknown but ive seen the ship in a screeny a big while ago from jamjamz or one of the ship designers.
They just simply get delayed.. no idea why.
Ya they may have some skins in the pipe... I don't know it seems to take them along time to throw the KDF a bone of any kind... they do they buffed the brel and now a couple others... but Klink ships with bad stats will stay that way for much longer then the other factions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBBIH2zaGKg&feature=youtu.be
There are 2 confirmed federation c-store shipe that will be revamped among other things
Dan Stahl used to play in game a fleet defiant captain and now loves his new kumari.......
I didn't understood until today why first 5 tactical ships in game (fleet defiant and bortas'q) were so different now I do.Bortas'q was built to have 5 tac consoles and use them only by accident while Fleet defiant was the best raptor in game until kumari and can do very good use of 5 tac consoles.
The kumari is much more powerfull than fleet defiant and I am afraid there will be no kdf response or it May will be a second "bortas'q" aka a ship having firepower but being unable to use it properly
(Which employee would dare to build a ship that is a serious match to his employer's ship's ?)
Edit :Changed last sentence
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
If ignorance is what is the root of the problem, I just make a proposition that each member of Cryptic that is involved in ship making decisions should have a kdf char and participate in P.V.P with it.
The reason why I made this proposition is because people in general tend to favor their habits many times even not knowingly (it is a general trait not a specific one this one.)
(sometime myself I do such things and later understand why I did choose a over b)
It is here :http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=564501
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Too many folks running around going "Oh, it popped easy! Must be TRIBBLE!" y'know?
Raise your hand if you've ever flown a BoP against a Vesta and popped it with ease?
I see a fair few hands.
Raise your hand if you've ever hit a Heavy Escort Carrier so hard you're sure your name will be feared by the next four generations of its Captain's progeny.
Still seeing hands come up.
Raise your hand if you've cackled with delight as you proceeded blackout and melt Jem'Hadar Attack Ship?
More hands, even more hands.
Raise your hand if you see the point I'm making?
Good, you're smarter than those ones in other threads saying "I killed it, therefore it's worthless." For those that didn't raise their hands, this is for you:
The player always makes the ship, not the other way around.
On the topic of the KDF being out in the cold... it sucks, it's true, and it's a cryin' shame. I don't think you quite hit the nail on the head specs-wise for the BoP's (along, of course, them being the most iconic Klingon ship for folks who grew up with TNG and DS9) but I like the lines along which you think.