I was a bit surprised but I believe power level drain was playing a role.
Would be lovely to see it compared to beam arrays
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Explains why my shields and hull just disintegrate when I forget to stay behind one
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
What combination would you like to see? I have a lot of test results but cluttering a graph with too many becomes pointless. Would you like to see sets of beam arrays? ie. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 beam array comparisons? Or combinations of Cannon and beam arrays?
What combination would you like to see? I have a lot of test results but cluttering a graph with too many becomes pointless. Would you like to see sets of beam arrays? ie. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 beam array comparisons? Or combinations of Cannon and beam arrays?
Well, broadside, that is 5+ beams. There is huge diffrence in how to get 4 beams on target (all aft and all front) compared to 5+ in broadside. Considering the overlapping arc is not that larger, im currious how much "bonus" for the "narrow" arc the DHCs get.
So let's say compare 3x DHC + 2x turret, vs. 5 or 6 beams.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
beam arrays on it would act just like any other broad sider. i bet a little overcaping, a little maco shield, and a little borg console would go a long way toward dealing with that bland increase in dps. or 4 cannons and a torp. good weapons energy with 5 DHCs should be monstrous though. you don't want to be dropping below 90 or so energy to be dealing good damage.
beam arrays on it would act just like any other broad sider. i bet a little overcaping, a little maco shield, and a little borg console would go a long way toward dealing with that bland increase in dps. or 4 cannons and a torp. good weapons energy with 5 DHCs should be monstrous though. you don't want to be dropping below 90 or so energy to be dealing good damage.
Something that became quite interesting was the correlation between hits/sec and the DPS affect. You can see some of it in the graph. At a specific point, increasing the hits/sec started affecting the DPS. DHC have a lot less hits per second than turrets. I believe the 5xDHC 0xTurrets resulted in a good result because of the lower hits/sec that resulted in less power drain. It appears that up to a specific point of hits/sec the power drain doesn't play a role. You can see it in the straight line between 2xDHC 0xTurrets to 5xDHX 0xTurrets.
I have noticed that the weapon damage is fixed to the power level it had when it activated. Similar to how most heals work. So as the power level drops during the fire cycle it doesn't affect the damage. But the next weapon that activates might activate at a lower power level and cycle at the new setting. Each "lick" of the cannon affects a drain point. So as a rapid fire starts up a large number of cannons start their fire cycle at full power. With turrets the number of licks are increased dramatically so some of the cannons towards the end of the sequence activate at a lower power setting. We can see that we still receive an over all benefit from adding turrets but it does diminish.
I will get my beam data together and list it as well. I will do up to 8 beams. I think people will find it interesting, since I know 8 beams are overly redundant. But the graph will demonstrate it. What will be important is to study the Hits per Weapon per Second of the Beams. Once that value drops dramatically, that's when you have reached the redundant number.
Back to the Hits/sec. It is important to note that if we have a 2.5% proc chance and an average 6.7 hits per second we will proc on average every 5.97 seconds. With a 3.27 hits per second we will see a proc on average every 12.2 seconds. This is assuming no immunity to the proc and no hits being missed.
What combination would you like to see? I have a lot of test results but cluttering a graph with too many becomes pointless. Would you like to see sets of beam arrays? ie. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 beam array comparisons? Or combinations of Cannon and beam arrays?
I would love to see a comparision of DHCs to DCs and mixing them to see what happens. Similar to how you mixed in the DBB personally. And thanks for your efforts.
Also, my understanding of the mechanics is this and my limited testing has worked with it.
A weapon cycle is two parts, firing and cooldown. Cannon weapons fire for .5 seconds and cooldown for 1. Beams fire for 4 seconds and cooldown for 1.
When a weapon is in the firing cycle the power is reserved. It is released the moment it goes into cooldown. A weapon will check the weapon power for each individual shot.
DHCs fire one shot.
All other cannons fire two shots.
Beams fire four shots.
So if you were to fire say a DHC, a cannon, and a turret at 125 power it would look like this:
DHC fire at 125 power
Cannon first shot at 113 power
Turret first shot at 105 power
Cannon second shot at 105 power
Turret second shot at 105 power
Weapons enter cooldown and reset.
That is what makes beams so power hungry and is why over-capping weapon power has no effect on DHCs because that extra power is only shoved into the system in between shots during the firing cycle.
Also from my understanding CRF reduces the cooldown length of cannons and fire at will adds an extra shot to the cycle in addition to reducing the cooldown.
the damage a weapon deals is based off the power level you have the exact server tic the shot is fired. a weapons cycle does not deal damage the same way a heal over time heals based on the power level of its activation at only
part of why DHCs are better is because they only draw their power for half of their cycle, and then return it. they don't suck the power for the whole 4 seconds like a DC or anything else does.
8 beam arrays are best, once you overcap sufficiently. if you find them an 8th beam doing more harm then good then your not giving yourself enough power. aside from mine spam, theres not much else to use on a cruiser for dealing damage then ether all beams or a single/turret build. if you main intend is to deal damage, weapons power needs to be the priority.
any 8 beam test, where you don't have enough power to use 8 beams, is worthless information
I'd second what Drunk said... overcapping is something that's nice to have for DHCs but an absolute must for beam arrays. With beams, a great portion of your damage (I'm inclined to say the majority after the first one or two firing cycles begins) becomes essentially useless because the drain is so debilitating. You really have to stack as many passive sources of system power as possible to make beams even moderately functional.
So help all my enemies if my jhec had 5 forward weapons. I've learned how to cap it at 179 weapon power 90% of the time. KDF side I can get it to 206 because of plasmonic leech and maco shield (when it is proced.)
Question has anyone noticed missed up timings with 5 dhc? When I'm flying my andorian in pvp or pve it seems sometimes that the 5th dhc fires late and or just gets off rhythm. Maybe I'm seeing things but it just seems because of the short cooldowns of DHC weapons they seem to mess up a bit kind of like multiple torps.
The real question is, does overcapping really work ? Especially with beams ? And how much ? I have seen some data on beams and the difference was about 6%.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Thats all nice, but the test sample was only 6 cycles. Not sure that's enough to make a statement about the average numbers.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
So help all my enemies if my jhec had 5 forward weapons. I've learned how to cap it at 179 weapon power 90% of the time. KDF side I can get it to 206 because of plasmonic leech and maco shield (when it is proced.)
Question has anyone noticed missed up timings with 5 dhc? When I'm flying my andorian in pvp or pve it seems sometimes that the 5th dhc fires late and or just gets off rhythm. Maybe I'm seeing things but it just seems because of the short cooldowns of DHC weapons they seem to mess up a bit kind of like multiple torps.
lol maco will always proc and yes the 5th dhc does actually mess up. after testing it i understood what was being told to me.
Thats all nice, but the test sample was only 6 cycles. Not sure that's enough to make a statement about the average numbers.
it couldn't be more clear how linear the progression was wile he was overcaping. it made little difference compared to when he fired over 1000 shots at the other energy levels.
not to mention the effects in game are impossible not to notice. i can watch my energy levels wile auto fireing, they never drop as low as they would if i just shot for 125. meaning every shot is fired at higher energy levels. 125 is the maximum damage modifier, so every shot that doesn't drain below 125 is fired at the max of that 125 modifier. but instead of the worst shot firing at about 60 power, it fires at about 90.
it couldn't be more clear how linear the progression was wile he was overcaping. it made little difference compared to when he fired over 1000 shots at the other energy levels.
not to mention the effects in game are impossible not to notice. i can watch my energy levels wile auto fireing, they never drop as low as they would if i just shot for 125. meaning every shot is fired at higher energy levels. 125 is the maximum damage modifier, so every shot that doesn't drain below 125 is fired at the max of that 125 modifier. but instead of the worst shot firing at about 60 power, it fires at about 90.
Thats not how it works.
Normally if you have two beams they will fire like this begining at 125 power.
Beam A 1st Shot is at 125 power
Beam B 1st Shot is at 115 power
All remaining beam shots from both A and B are at 115 power
If you overcapped to 135 then it would be like thus.
Beam A fires all shots at 125 power
Beam B fires all shots at 115 power
How do I know this is true?
1) Tested it and the damage from the shots matched up close enough
2) It explains why over-capping works so well with beams vs cannons and why it does nothing for DHCs
3) It makes logical sense.
2) It explains why over-capping works so well with beams vs cannons and why it does nothing for DHCs
It does everything for dhcs!
1) Turrets use more power than dhcs and because of that dhc's will shoot at lower power levels. Over capping basically removes turret drain from the equation. Allowing DHCs to constantly hit (with my build) at 125 power.
2) It still helps with DHC's direct use of power also but not as much as it does for beams though it still helps.
3) IF your power is being drained over capping helps dhcs and turrets aka fighting against power drain builds or against plasmonic leech.
DontDrunkImShoot's aux2bat build really performs well with the jhec. Instead of epta I use eptw along side of epts.
So does using the andorian's original wing cannon with 4 dhcs work well with the timings?
So many here are looking at this like something is wrong, that is simply not the case. Barring some launch bug still being active (which is sadly not out of the question, it IS Cryptic after all), beams are working as intended, drain and all. So why not simply ask for what you really want? Ask for Beams to get a damage buff. I don't think the game would break if Beams got a 5% dps boost.
1) Turrets use more power than dhcs and because of that dhc's will shoot at lower power levels. Over capping basically removes turret drain from the equation. Allowing DHCs to constantly hit (with my build) at 125 power.
2) It still helps with DHC's direct use of power also but not as much as it does for beams though it still helps.
3) IF your power is being drained over capping helps dhcs and turrets aka fighting against power drain builds or against plasmonic leech.
DontDrunkImShoot's aux2bat build really performs well with the jhec. Instead of epta I use eptw along side of epts.
So does using the andorian's original wing cannon with 4 dhcs work well with the timings?
In a standard setup the turrets fire after the DHCs so they are unimportant for DHC weapon power drain. If the guns get off cycle just stop shooting for half a second to reset it. DHCs do not all fire at 125 power with over-capping. The first one does the second fires at 113, third at 101 and so on. Turrets fire twice so half of their shots will be at the lowest power and they will see limited benefit from over-capping. All weapons do benefit from power drain resistance though. Also gaining energy during the firing cycle is funky.
IF you don't believe me do a simple test. Use 4 DHCs of different energy types and parse it. You will see.
DHCs do not all fire at 125 power with over-capping. The first one does the second fires at 113, third at 101 and so on.
K with the over capping I do the power level doesn't drop below 100, and that only happens when using crf or csv. Regular fire my weapons stays at 125 constant when firing. So how does it fire at lower values when the subsystem shows 125 when firing regularly?
IF you don't believe me do a simple test. Use 4 DHCs of different energy types and parse it. You will see.
What does energy types have anything to do with this? To me you're saying that 4 identical cars just painted differently would make a difference.
Now I've parsed my stfs without doing aux2 bat and eptw and get 6-8k in ise. With using those powers I get 8-12k. SO overcapping is doing something for the dhcs. Because I doubt I get 4k more dps from turrets.
Nice data, but I'm not much happy about the numbers. Considering the current healing per second, no wonder beams simply do not cut through shields.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Comments
Testing Graph
I was a bit surprised but I believe power level drain was playing a role.
Thanks for posting this data pug.
Was this with 4 or 5 tac consoles?
In the title it lists that no tactical consoles were used. It simplifies the results for anyone to make adjustments.
Would be lovely to see it compared to beam arrays
What combination would you like to see? I have a lot of test results but cluttering a graph with too many becomes pointless. Would you like to see sets of beam arrays? ie. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 beam array comparisons? Or combinations of Cannon and beam arrays?
Well, broadside, that is 5+ beams. There is huge diffrence in how to get 4 beams on target (all aft and all front) compared to 5+ in broadside. Considering the overlapping arc is not that larger, im currious how much "bonus" for the "narrow" arc the DHCs get.
So let's say compare 3x DHC + 2x turret, vs. 5 or 6 beams.
Woops! Missed that, thanks again pug.
Something that became quite interesting was the correlation between hits/sec and the DPS affect. You can see some of it in the graph. At a specific point, increasing the hits/sec started affecting the DPS. DHC have a lot less hits per second than turrets. I believe the 5xDHC 0xTurrets resulted in a good result because of the lower hits/sec that resulted in less power drain. It appears that up to a specific point of hits/sec the power drain doesn't play a role. You can see it in the straight line between 2xDHC 0xTurrets to 5xDHX 0xTurrets.
I have noticed that the weapon damage is fixed to the power level it had when it activated. Similar to how most heals work. So as the power level drops during the fire cycle it doesn't affect the damage. But the next weapon that activates might activate at a lower power level and cycle at the new setting. Each "lick" of the cannon affects a drain point. So as a rapid fire starts up a large number of cannons start their fire cycle at full power. With turrets the number of licks are increased dramatically so some of the cannons towards the end of the sequence activate at a lower power setting. We can see that we still receive an over all benefit from adding turrets but it does diminish.
I will get my beam data together and list it as well. I will do up to 8 beams. I think people will find it interesting, since I know 8 beams are overly redundant. But the graph will demonstrate it. What will be important is to study the Hits per Weapon per Second of the Beams. Once that value drops dramatically, that's when you have reached the redundant number.
Back to the Hits/sec. It is important to note that if we have a 2.5% proc chance and an average 6.7 hits per second we will proc on average every 5.97 seconds. With a 3.27 hits per second we will see a proc on average every 12.2 seconds. This is assuming no immunity to the proc and no hits being missed.
www.divisionhispana.com
I would love to see a comparision of DHCs to DCs and mixing them to see what happens. Similar to how you mixed in the DBB personally. And thanks for your efforts.
Also, my understanding of the mechanics is this and my limited testing has worked with it.
A weapon cycle is two parts, firing and cooldown. Cannon weapons fire for .5 seconds and cooldown for 1. Beams fire for 4 seconds and cooldown for 1.
When a weapon is in the firing cycle the power is reserved. It is released the moment it goes into cooldown. A weapon will check the weapon power for each individual shot.
DHCs fire one shot.
All other cannons fire two shots.
Beams fire four shots.
So if you were to fire say a DHC, a cannon, and a turret at 125 power it would look like this:
DHC fire at 125 power
Cannon first shot at 113 power
Turret first shot at 105 power
Cannon second shot at 105 power
Turret second shot at 105 power
Weapons enter cooldown and reset.
That is what makes beams so power hungry and is why over-capping weapon power has no effect on DHCs because that extra power is only shoved into the system in between shots during the firing cycle.
Also from my understanding CRF reduces the cooldown length of cannons and fire at will adds an extra shot to the cycle in addition to reducing the cooldown.
The above is AFAIK.
part of why DHCs are better is because they only draw their power for half of their cycle, and then return it. they don't suck the power for the whole 4 seconds like a DC or anything else does.
8 beam arrays are best, once you overcap sufficiently. if you find them an 8th beam doing more harm then good then your not giving yourself enough power. aside from mine spam, theres not much else to use on a cruiser for dealing damage then ether all beams or a single/turret build. if you main intend is to deal damage, weapons power needs to be the priority.
any 8 beam test, where you don't have enough power to use 8 beams, is worthless information
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Question has anyone noticed missed up timings with 5 dhc? When I'm flying my andorian in pvp or pve it seems sometimes that the 5th dhc fires late and or just gets off rhythm. Maybe I'm seeing things but it just seems because of the short cooldowns of DHC weapons they seem to mess up a bit kind of like multiple torps.
lol maco will always proc and yes the 5th dhc does actually mess up. after testing it i understood what was being told to me.
it couldn't be more clear how linear the progression was wile he was overcaping. it made little difference compared to when he fired over 1000 shots at the other energy levels.
not to mention the effects in game are impossible not to notice. i can watch my energy levels wile auto fireing, they never drop as low as they would if i just shot for 125. meaning every shot is fired at higher energy levels. 125 is the maximum damage modifier, so every shot that doesn't drain below 125 is fired at the max of that 125 modifier. but instead of the worst shot firing at about 60 power, it fires at about 90.
Thats not how it works.
Normally if you have two beams they will fire like this begining at 125 power.
Beam A 1st Shot is at 125 power
Beam B 1st Shot is at 115 power
All remaining beam shots from both A and B are at 115 power
If you overcapped to 135 then it would be like thus.
Beam A fires all shots at 125 power
Beam B fires all shots at 115 power
How do I know this is true?
1) Tested it and the damage from the shots matched up close enough
2) It explains why over-capping works so well with beams vs cannons and why it does nothing for DHCs
3) It makes logical sense.
It does everything for dhcs!
1) Turrets use more power than dhcs and because of that dhc's will shoot at lower power levels. Over capping basically removes turret drain from the equation. Allowing DHCs to constantly hit (with my build) at 125 power.
2) It still helps with DHC's direct use of power also but not as much as it does for beams though it still helps.
3) IF your power is being drained over capping helps dhcs and turrets aka fighting against power drain builds or against plasmonic leech.
DontDrunkImShoot's aux2bat build really performs well with the jhec. Instead of epta I use eptw along side of epts.
So does using the andorian's original wing cannon with 4 dhcs work well with the timings?
In a standard setup the turrets fire after the DHCs so they are unimportant for DHC weapon power drain. If the guns get off cycle just stop shooting for half a second to reset it. DHCs do not all fire at 125 power with over-capping. The first one does the second fires at 113, third at 101 and so on. Turrets fire twice so half of their shots will be at the lowest power and they will see limited benefit from over-capping. All weapons do benefit from power drain resistance though. Also gaining energy during the firing cycle is funky.
IF you don't believe me do a simple test. Use 4 DHCs of different energy types and parse it. You will see.
K with the over capping I do the power level doesn't drop below 100, and that only happens when using crf or csv. Regular fire my weapons stays at 125 constant when firing. So how does it fire at lower values when the subsystem shows 125 when firing regularly?
What does energy types have anything to do with this? To me you're saying that 4 identical cars just painted differently would make a difference.
Now I've parsed my stfs without doing aux2 bat and eptw and get 6-8k in ise. With using those powers I get 8-12k. SO overcapping is doing something for the dhcs. Because I doubt I get 4k more dps from turrets.
Test Graph
Nice data, but I'm not much happy about the numbers. Considering the current healing per second, no wonder beams simply do not cut through shields.
No tactical consoles were used.
looks like when you over caped with EPtW the DPS didn't level off, as i would expect.