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Ground PVP Concerns Directory 1.0

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  • mikiiymikiiy Member Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    guriphu wrote: »
    If it's an easy solution with the tech, yes, I agree that that would be cleaner. I thought red alert lasted 15 seconds when triggered by a self ability (rather than a team ability), though.

    We'd still have the problem of kitswitching to a fresh Operative to clear cloak, with either solution method. I think the ideal solution would be to make all kits Unique, if that would be possible. Kit stacking can't be a problem if you physically can't have more than one of each kit.

    The problem with switching items to unique after-the-fact is that players will keep extra unique items - same as in the past; they switched already a couple rewards to unique afterwards, extras were staying... if they wouldn't they would need to find a way to reimburse players for losing extras.

    Another solution to take care of kit-switching once and for all (at least with the current durations on buffs) could be to put every ability on a newly switched kit on a 1-minute cooldown. That way switching kit's would either be disadvantageous or equal to waiting for normal cooldowns. And the tech to trigger something on a kit-switch event seems to be already there? At least it seems so with engineer pets.. although it works kinda faulty there (not taking care of doff proc pets and pets that were spawned before a death).
  • mikiiymikiiy Member Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    guriphu wrote: »

    Item: Stasis Pistol
    Issue (1): Weapon Disabled effects break the damage immunity associated with the stasis effect, allowing a target to be killed while unable to react.
    Issue (2): Hypos are stated to clear Holds and Stuns. They also clear the Stasis science kit ability. They do not clear Stasis Pistol, and they probably should, given the description, the relationship with similar powers, and the long duration of the disable effect.

    Attaching an immunity to Weapon Malfunction debuffs (like the one granted by Equipment Diagnostics) to the Stasis Pistol secondary fire should solve problem (1). Since the target is supposed to be in temporal Stasis, it might actually make sense to make the target immune to all debuffs for the duration of the stasis effect.

    Thought i'd mention that the latest tribble patch did NOT FIX the stasis pistol issue yet at all, the gun is still totally broken.. just went testing there in case that they made already progress on that issue. Good suggestions there btw.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    webdeath wrote: »
    Sounds reasonable considering I Think the highest cold Resist I've seen from looking at Exchange EV suits was about +5% ish.. And the C-store ones was around +15% maybe? Memory doesn't work that great on the exact figures but that sounds right.

    Yeah there is very little to be had from armors.

    The best you can do requires being a tac and basically sacrificing all of your damage potential.
  • mrkollinsmrkollins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Updated .
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  • guriphuguriphu Member Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Regarding Ambush and the plasma grenade. I consider myself one of the best Medics in STO. I am almost never hit by plasma grenades, because I control my timings and evade them. Yet I am still usually overwhelmed by a good tactical officer running Fire Team, even without caitian or the cryo gun. Fire Team does not in any way need the plasma grenade to overwhelm the medic kit; indeed, against a good opponent, the grenade is not a damage ability at all, merely an area denial threat.
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Ability: Transphasic Bomb
    This ability has a proximity detection radius (making it go off by itself if an enemy gets close) and an explosion radius. That said:

    (1) the detection radius does not seem to consider Line of Sight, but the explosion radius definitely does. This leads to situations where you place a bomb behind a Cover Shield, and when an enemy hugs the Cover Shield from the other side, the bomb detonates but no damage is done. This is also true when the bomb is placed behind a wall.

    (2) then the bomb goes off by proximity detection and does not hit anything, it recharges instantly. For one, this messes with the Engineer's ability to manually detonate the bomb: if he tries to do so, he'll instead start planting another bomb and get into animation-lock.

    Suggestion: making the proximity detection radius consider Line of Sight should solve (1), and also alleviate (2) by making non-damage explosions less frequent.

    COLOR="Lime"]EDIT[/COLOR Here's a video to illustrate both issues: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJLY3vCwj8w
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  • felderburgfelderburg Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    tk79 wrote: »
    Ability: Transphasic Bomb
    This ability has a proximity detection radius (making it go off by itself if an enemy gets close) and an explosion radius.

    I'm pretty sure it's not a proximity radius but a "takes enough damage to die" explosion. If you set the bomb and no one shoots it, it has to be manually exploded.

    This is actually a good thing - manually blowing the bomb puts it on cool down, but if someone else blows it, you can place another right away.



    Your point about animation lock is interesting though - what powers have it? I know for an engineer, the bomb and orbital strike do. Do the other professions have such prominent powers with animation lock?
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    felderburg wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it's not a proximity radius but a "takes enough damage to die" explosion. If you set the bomb and no one shoots it, it has to be manually exploded.

    I just edited my post to add a video which illustrates both issues. But yes, it also detonates by itself when it takes enough damage.

    On that note though, I've never been able to target an enemy bomb using the mouse (my "Never Auto-target Objects" setting is "On"). No matter where I click in the enemy bomb, it just won't target. Does anyone else experience this?
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  • guriphuguriphu Member Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    felderburg wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it's not a proximity radius but a "takes enough damage to die" explosion. If you set the bomb and no one shoots it, it has to be manually exploded.

    This is actually a good thing - manually blowing the bomb puts it on cool down, but if someone else blows it, you can place another right away.



    Your point about animation lock is interesting though - what powers have it? I know for an engineer, the bomb and orbital strike do. Do the other professions have such prominent powers with animation lock?

    The bomb does have a proximity detonation radius now. It is a recent change and not reflected in the tooltip or patchnotes, so far as I am aware. I for one preferred it the way it was.

    Strike Team and Science Proficiency have total animation lock (as does Engineering Proficiency), and Nanoprobe Infestation has a partial animation lock.
  • webdeathwebdeath Member Posts: 1,570 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    guriphu wrote: »
    The bomb does have a proximity detonation radius now. It is a recent change and not reflected in the tooltip or patchnotes, so far as I am aware. I for one preferred it the way it was.

    Strike Team and Science Proficiency have total animation lock (as does Engineering Proficiency), and Nanoprobe Infestation has a partial animation lock.

    Engineers also have partial Animation Lock with deploying their Turrets, Mortars etc..
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  • felderburgfelderburg Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Ok, yeah, I've seen that with the bomb. I thought it must have taken damage somehow.


    Regarding animation lock: it looks like Engineers have the most powers with it, is that right?
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    "Relativity Pistol: The Hold and Damage Immunity should now always last the same duration, regardless of the user and targets' innate resistances and buffs."

    I guess this is the fix you guys have wanted for a long time?
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  • mrkollinsmrkollins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    "Relativity Pistol: The Hold and Damage Immunity should now always last the same duration, regardless of the user and targets' innate resistances and buffs."

    I guess this is the fix you guys have wanted for a long time?



    It's still broken, the fix didn't fix it.
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  • shailatshailat Member Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    "Relativity Pistol: The Hold and Damage Immunity should now always last the same duration, regardless of the user and targets' innate resistances and buffs."

    I guess this is the fix you guys have wanted for a long time?

    Yes it is the fix we are waiting for.........
    But nope it is not fixed yet :(

    "This is NOT working correctly yet."

    "Thought i'd mention that the latest tribble patch did NOT FIX the stasis pistol issue yet at all..........."
    ogew7.jpg
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    guriphu wrote: »
    The bomb does have a proximity detonation radius now. It is a recent change and not reflected in the tooltip or patchnotes, so far as I am aware. I for one preferred it the way it was.

    Strike Team and Science Proficiency have total animation lock (as does Engineering Proficiency), and Nanoprobe Infestation has a partial animation lock.

    From a PvP standpoint, having the bomb set to proximity is actually quite invaluable. Not only does it trigger at the right time, it also blows up on any cloaker walking too close to the bomb. At the same time it decloaks the cloaker via knockback. Engineers don't have tricorder scan or target optics. Transphasic bomb presents the class with an interesting way to deal with cloaked players. You can't sneak up on an engineer while under cloak if they are standing next to a transphasic bomb.
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  • radkipradkip Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I'm sure you can get close enough to get in pulsewave range, as my own experiments with the bomb have shown that it has a laughably small radius (and very slow response time).

    Is it a good idea though? Maybe if you're a suicide bomber, but if I were a cloaker, I'd just look for someone else to deal with.
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  • mikiiymikiiy Member Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Would maybe be a good idea to mention at the bomb one that it has no cooldown when it auto-explodes by proximity... couldn't hurt to get some dev confirmation if thats actually an intended feature as it seems almost to good to be true as it wasn't like that before the proximity was patched in and it can totally outdo dmg of other kits when used like that.

    so maybe

    "(3) Bomb has no cooldown when auto-exploding by proximity - intended feature?"
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    If I'm not mistaken, the auto-exploding cooldown is only instant when the explosion doesn't hit anything.
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  • mikiiymikiiy Member Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    tk79 wrote: »
    If I'm not mistaken, the auto-exploding cooldown is only instant when the explosion doesn't hit anything.

    Its always instant with no cooldown unless triggered manually, makes triggering em manually being the worst idea ever unless you really have to atm. And thats what makes this design feel a bit wrong actually, cause automatic triggering is easier then manually triggering yet you get punished with a penalty for doing it manually.
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I just tested this to make sure, and I stand corrected. Recharge will always be instant when auto-exploding, no matter if hitting or not.

    I just ran a PvE mission with bombs alone (boffs were stationary by the entrance). It was a little insane with the bomb instant-recharging and killing everything. Probably not intended.
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  • carcharodon1975carcharodon1975 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Another point for your list perhaps....the re-spawn in arena maps.When you die and re-spawn you are dropped at a 'random' location on the map.There are 3 issues with this system.

    1. The most obvious one...getting spawn killed,just because you just happen to re-spawn near an opponent.
    2. You re-spawn on the opposite side of where your team is.
    3. "Random" is not really random at all,both Ghost Ship and Assimilated Cruiser are notorious for re-spawns at the starting location,which in turn makes spawn camping very easy.

    A solution would be to give the player control over where they re-spawn,letting them choose from a limited number of possible spawn points.

    On Shanty Town the spawn points are fixed for both sides,the issue there is that the spawn points are very exposed.The turrets protecting them are too weak to be an effective deterrent,which can lead to spawn camping.
    On this map a possible solution could be to make the spawn point a bunker,with walls to break line of sight so people can't be sniped from the high ground.A Force Field Dome that extends beyond the walls to prevent opponents entering the bunker.The turrets protecting the spawn point should have shields to make them more durable.(the turrets at the mainframe should still be without shields)
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  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    felderburg wrote: »
    Your point about animation lock is interesting though - what powers have it? I know for an engineer, the bomb and orbital strike do. Do the other professions have such prominent powers with animation lock?

    Well the animation lock is a fair price if you consider that you can spam bombs dealing damage if it gets triggered automatically. It's more powerful than anything, since when your bomb explodes when it detects an enemy you can place another right away, and deal another 1.2k damage in a matter of seconds. :D

    That's the only reason good engineer players only use this kit in pve and pvp by the way. It's really nasty, but if you're smart enough you will step away from bombs, the animation gives you enough time to run away. I have yet to see a bomb doing something significant in ground pvp when the opponent isn't a clueless guy who queued randomly.
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  • buccaneerdtbbuccaneerdtb Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Tribble notes claim to have fixed the Science kit Mk XII
    Romulan Research Lab Scientist Duty Officers should now function as intended.
    I have yet to test if it now actually does anything or if the electrical damage is enough to make the kit usable, or to compete with the other 2 Romulan kits.
  • mrkollinsmrkollins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    diogene0 wrote: »
    Well the animation lock is a fair price if you consider that you can spam bombs dealing damage if it gets triggered automatically. It's more powerful than anything, since when your bomb explodes when it detects an enemy you can place another right away, and deal another 1.2k damage in a matter of seconds. :D

    This came with S7, and im pretty sure that it's not intended. You can put 1 bomb every 2 secs.
    diogene0 wrote: »
    That's the only reason good engineer players only use this kit in pve and pvp by the way. It's really nasty, but if you're smart enough you will step away from bombs, the animation gives you enough time to run away. I have yet to see a bomb doing something significant in ground pvp when the opponent isn't a clueless guy who queued randomly.

    For PvE it's great, but in PvP against serious opponents you will be in a disadvantage with this kit, the best one for the engineer is the Equipment Technician. But of course, you can always murder pugs with mines and bomb :D
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  • buccaneerdtbbuccaneerdtb Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Tribble notes claim to have fixed the Science kit Mk XII I have yet to test if it now actually does anything or if the electrical damage is enough to make the kit usable, or to compete with the other 2 Romulan kits.

    2 damage per second with the green Doff so basically useless. This makes no sense, fuse armor does way more electrical damage, requires no Doff, and the damage is still laughable. Maybe if the purple Doff triples the damage and you can stack 2 or 3 of them this might become noticeable.

    If a player maxes out willpower then stasis field will only hold him for less than 1 second. That is a serious problem with willpower. My stasis field says holds players for 9 seconds, and yet willpower can drop that to less than 1? Makes most Science kit powers useless in PvP as serious PvPers all have high willpower.
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Control powers are very powerful in any MMO, don't expect them to not be counterable. In that sense there's nothing wrong with Willpower. It's working as intended (for the most part) and it's not a cheap investment. Still, a 1-2 second hold is not entirely useless if you know your timings.

    Stasis Field is useless for a different reason, which is that is a soft hold that's broken by damage (think of "sleep" powers). A "true" hold power would not be cancelled by damage. If I were to make Stasis Field more useful I'd change it to a "true" hold power.
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  • radkipradkip Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I'm actually happy that this is one of the few MMOs where crowd control spam isn't king. Every other MMO out there I press an ability and I get an error "can't do that while stunned", and then the respawn button appears.

    The issue with willpower is that it's required to deal with the ridiculous amounts of knockback and control a Fire Team Tac can put out, but you don't really need it to deal with much else besides pulsewave crits. Even with 9 willpower you're often rooted or slowed to a crawl by strong suppressing fires, but even at 3 willpower most other CC abilities are more often than not negated.
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  • guriphuguriphu Member Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Today's patch included a note about the stasis pistol, but the issues noted in this thread are still true. Weapon malfunction still clears the damage immunity without clearing disable, and hypo still does not clear the stasis effect.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Equipment diagnostic doffs are very overpowered, this should be looked in to.
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  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Suppression fire

    When suppression fire is paired with a weapon with continuous fire, such as the omega autocarbine, it creates a paralysis effect on the target. This paralysis effect makes it impossible for the target to turn to face the attacker while under fire from the ability in addition to the intended run speed reduction.


    Jumping/Firing

    Players are capable of jumping and firing at the same time. When paired with cover, this allows a player to hide behind cover while briefly jumping up to fire on targets with relative impunity. Jumping and firing a weapon at the same time also allows catian players to jump over a player's head while firing their weapon. Such attacks can receive a flanking bonus. If performed by a tactical catian with a pulsewave assault weapon, the flanking attack can result in a one or two hit kill with minimal risk to the attacker.
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