"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
It's a bit of an oddball time to call for peace when the war itself hasn't really been played out yet.
Even during the run of TNG the Alliance itself was rather shaky and one-sided with pretty much all the concessions being given to Klingon sensitivities, and all that effort didn't seem to do anything but lead the Klingons to holding the Federation further in contempt.
And perhaps that was the problem with the Federation-Klingon Alliance... no real sharing of values,and no logical reason to keep them together.
What about the time when they needed the Fed to act as arbitor of seccesion.
What about all the hybrids out there like B'lanna Torras.My Fed tac has 15% Klingon in her.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
What about the time when they needed the Fed to act as arbitor of seccesion.
What about all the hybrids out there like B'lanna Torras.My Fed tac has 15% Klingon in her.
First, was timing and clearly, a plot device from the TV show. Schlepping is what schlepping does. Hey, the script was paid for and people got to tune in. Did it make sense versus lore? No, but most of the writing in the shows wasn't to make lore solid but sell shows, commercial time, and hopefully for writers to stay employed long enough to write some more for the next season.
Hybrids just meant someone had sex. Nothing more to read into that. Maybe it was like, "I drank too much last night..." "Oops". Personal unions should not determine the fate of empires any way.
Some feddie officer: "Stop! I am 1/16th Klingon... I have so much respect for your people!"
*sounds of many disruptors firing at once*
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Heck first figure out what the war is even about. What is J'mpok's trying to achieve? Rooting out Undine? Territorial desires? Full conquest of the Federation? A simple apology from the Federation Council? A simple lust for battles to fight? From all the Path To 2409 stuff, I'm not sure what the strategic objective is, and who wages war for zero reason? Even B'vat had a reason.
The only thing I get from the history is that J'mpok was embarassed by Taris, blamed the Federation rather than admit his own mistakes, and has held a grudge ever since. Is this whole war really just one guy lashing out to hide his own insecurities?
Heck first figure out what the war is even about. What is J'mpok's trying to achieve? Rooting out Undine? Territorial desires? Full conquest of the Federation? A simple apology from the Federation Council? A simple lust for battles to fight? From all the Path To 2409 stuff, I'm not sure what the strategic objective is, and who wages war for zero reason? Even B'vat had a reason.
The only thing I get from the history is that J'mpok was embarassed by Taris, blamed the Federation rather than admit his own mistakes, and has held a grudge ever since. Is this whole war really just one guy lashing out to hide his own insecurities?
-J'mpok knows that the Federation is infiltrated by Undine. Heck, even Starfleet Inteligence knows it if you read the STO lore. So what is J'mpok & KDF suposed to do? Ofcourse that they'll wage war against a Federation lead by Undine infiltrators.
-The Federation fleet intercepted & destroyed the KDF fleet led by Worf acting to protect the Romulans from KDF invasion after the destruction of Romulus, while the Federation was suposed to be an ally of the Klingon Empire. One thing Klingons never forget is betrayal in their eves. That's the reason they despise Romulans so much.
-J'mpok acting as Chancellor or the Klingon Empire announced that the Empire is taking back their lost systems to the Federation in the past. In DS9, Gowron acting as Chancellor told Sisko that when the KDF is involved in war, not even he as Chancellor can put an end to it without the Klingons having a victory and conquering something. It would put and end to his honor, life and probably House as well. So peace = one of the blue or green sectors turning red.
-And last but not least - the KDF in order to increase it's capacity and counter an ever expanding Federation has signed a list of alliances and non-agression pacts with certain species. Most prominent of them at least according to starship contribution to the KDF are the Orions & Nausicaans.
When you talk peace, you must take into consideration the new allignment of the KDF and it not being only Klingon. Orions are marauders and Nausicaans are pirates. They attack Fed. ships & trade convoys and then hide under the protection of the KDF in Klingon space. How would peace fit them?
If these reasons are not enough I don't know what else to say. They certainly are enough for me.
If these reasons are not enough I don't know what else to say. They certainly are enough for me.
Those are reasons to dislike someone, to fight. (Though I completely missed the Fed-destroys-Klingon-fleet thing. If that were the case, shouldn't this conflict have started 20 years ago? Got a link?) But what is the long-term strategic objective? IS there an objective? Or is it just "I'm mad at you so I'm going to kill you" ? What is a satisfactory outcome to all of this?
I'm not sure, it's a part of the lore "path to 2409" thingy I think. I'll post it when i stumble upon it again.
The way that the events have played out, I think that the KDF has two possible strategic goals in the war against the Federation.
One would be purging the Federation of Undine, or forcing it to take action purgin them from their own ranks (which has not happened in the Federation yet, they're behaving quite ignorant I don't know why).
The other would be establishing Klingon control & supremacy in the disputed systems that J'mpok announced the KDF is "taking back". By doing this he could preserve his honor on his word and Klingon tradition of conquest when going to war as well as revenge for the conflict in Romulan space.
Edit - I must however mention Spock's statement quoting J'mpok - "Only in war a Klingon is trully a Klingon". So as far as that goes I guess "I'm mad at you so I'm going to kill you" works for him as well.
Oh, if only the rules allowed the off-colour jokes I could make off that last sentence...
What exactly is wrong with it with out the off coloured jokes ever heard of the pm system or you can come over to my boards and say this if you got the guts to?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
I don't want to see peace between the Federation and Klingon Empire. I want to see Cryptic actually *expand* on the idea that they made to begin with.
It is Cryptic that made this game with the Federation - Klingon War in mind, shattering the alliance that persisted through all of TNG, almost all of DS9, and went right into the end of the Dominion War and beyond.
Personally, it annoyed me when STO released with the alliance shattered. But, being a Star Trek geek that I am, I do know that there is alot of potentially great war story arcs to be had. Quite a bit of Classic Trek background has to do with the wars (cold and hot) between these 2 powers, going back to TOS days.
But Cryptic has not done anything with the war and just ignored it. This includes PVP and PVE. Absolutely nothing done. The same story and background we have now is the exact same that we had when this game was released. That's how little attention this "war" has had in STO development.
They kind of are in a ceasefire by the time you start tackling Borg. There's just nothing in the game that makes it obvious besides not killing each other on sight on New Romulus.
Battlestar Galactica Online open PvP sector block.
This is what a real war should be. Like Ker'rat, but applied to every planet and system in Eta Eridani. Respawn is at K-7 or Ganalda, and you can be attacked at any time, any place.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I want Season 8 to wrap up the Klingon-Federation War. We do nothing but cooperate anyway, fighting Borg all the time. Both powers are helping the Romulan Republic start up. They work together all the time, just like they did back during the Dominion War. We should be brothers, fighting along side one another.
I want Season 8 to wrap up the Klingon-Federation War. We do nothing but cooperate anyway, fighting Borg all the time. Both powers are helping the Romulan Republic start up. They work together all the time, just like they did back during the Dominion War. We should be brothers, fighting along side one another.
Oh yes, ...new cities, homes in the country, ...your woman at your side, children playing at your feet. And overhead, fluttering in the breeze, the flag of the Federation. Charming.
:mad:
I don't see how peace would impact me at all... when I cruise around from mission to mission its not like Klingons jump out and attack me or anything.
Frankly I would prefer if I could be attacked in subspace as I travel between systems because it would make the game more enjoyable. Right now I can travel anywhere with impunity.
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USS Dallas (NCC361836-A) - Defiant Class
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USS Stonewall Jackson (NCC241861) - Prometheus Class
That's joke is bad and you should feel bad. Should I feel bad for knowing it? I think so. Come, let me buy you a drink and we can feel bad together.
Lol. That joke evidently crosses all racial barriers. I guess all males of any species have made that "promise" at one time another in the throws of passion.
Oh yes, ...new cities, homes in the country, ...your woman at your side, children playing at your feet. And overhead, fluttering in the breeze, the flag of the Federation. Charming.
:mad:
And on the other side of the border, the flag of the Empire. I don't see the problem.
I don't think anybody's suggesting the Klingons join the Federation. Just a peace treaty, like they had during TNG.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
You would be surprised at the amount of people that have actually suggested that the KDF do just that using the flimsy excuse of the Daniel's timeline. In reality they just want our ''op'' ships.
That said one way or another Cryptic need to get the hell on with this supposed war or end it with the reformation of the Khitomer accords. There is even story potential there with both sides as well as the RR knowing that they are being played like Data's violin by the Iconians. Which also ties in the unresolved undine stuff which is also down to said Iconinan meddling.
Declare peace, combine the PvP queues, and jointly agree to destroy necro-posting!
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Actually, why not? We already started the Samurai-viking thing. May as well as end it all with special feature episodes, where a great house alliance ruled by "outsiders" and actively traded with foreigners ended up overthrowing the existing government and "restored" the emperor, modernizing the empire.
And just in case that sounded like some fantasy stories, it's called Bakumetsu. The House of Mortok and House of Grilka can easily stand in for Satcho alliance, which does started out as Seii elements but ended up being more friendly to foreign powers.
And on the other side of the border, the flag of the Empire. I don't see the problem.
I don't think anybody's suggesting the Klingons join the Federation. Just a peace treaty, like they had during TNG.
If ya hadn't already noticed there's already too much peace in the universe, you can travel almost anywhere without being attacked by anyone. If the devs actually say the 2 factions will be part of a peace treaty MANY missions will have to be remastered from both factions as well as many random encounters.
It's bad enough that a few of the new KDF missions still call me a Federation captain , I won't bother playing at all if the universe is put into a perpetual kumbaya moment (excluding the Romulan lapdogs for each faction). I can find better ways to put myself to sleep.
Comments
Okay ... what does that mean?
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
There are no old warriors.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
>D lol, thanks for sharing (and good argument). I think we've found a new anthem for the Empire!
@psycoticvulcan: You really have to click the link to fully appreciate what he posted.
OK, the forum is really starting to scare me today...:eek:
What about the time when they needed the Fed to act as arbitor of seccesion.
What about all the hybrids out there like B'lanna Torras.My Fed tac has 15% Klingon in her.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
First, was timing and clearly, a plot device from the TV show. Schlepping is what schlepping does. Hey, the script was paid for and people got to tune in. Did it make sense versus lore? No, but most of the writing in the shows wasn't to make lore solid but sell shows, commercial time, and hopefully for writers to stay employed long enough to write some more for the next season.
Hybrids just meant someone had sex. Nothing more to read into that. Maybe it was like, "I drank too much last night..." "Oops". Personal unions should not determine the fate of empires any way.
Some feddie officer: "Stop! I am 1/16th Klingon... I have so much respect for your people!"
*sounds of many disruptors firing at once*
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
The only thing I get from the history is that J'mpok was embarassed by Taris, blamed the Federation rather than admit his own mistakes, and has held a grudge ever since. Is this whole war really just one guy lashing out to hide his own insecurities?
-J'mpok knows that the Federation is infiltrated by Undine. Heck, even Starfleet Inteligence knows it if you read the STO lore. So what is J'mpok & KDF suposed to do? Ofcourse that they'll wage war against a Federation lead by Undine infiltrators.
-The Federation fleet intercepted & destroyed the KDF fleet led by Worf acting to protect the Romulans from KDF invasion after the destruction of Romulus, while the Federation was suposed to be an ally of the Klingon Empire. One thing Klingons never forget is betrayal in their eves. That's the reason they despise Romulans so much.
-J'mpok acting as Chancellor or the Klingon Empire announced that the Empire is taking back their lost systems to the Federation in the past. In DS9, Gowron acting as Chancellor told Sisko that when the KDF is involved in war, not even he as Chancellor can put an end to it without the Klingons having a victory and conquering something. It would put and end to his honor, life and probably House as well. So peace = one of the blue or green sectors turning red.
-And last but not least - the KDF in order to increase it's capacity and counter an ever expanding Federation has signed a list of alliances and non-agression pacts with certain species. Most prominent of them at least according to starship contribution to the KDF are the Orions & Nausicaans.
When you talk peace, you must take into consideration the new allignment of the KDF and it not being only Klingon. Orions are marauders and Nausicaans are pirates. They attack Fed. ships & trade convoys and then hide under the protection of the KDF in Klingon space. How would peace fit them?
If these reasons are not enough I don't know what else to say. They certainly are enough for me.
Those are reasons to dislike someone, to fight. (Though I completely missed the Fed-destroys-Klingon-fleet thing. If that were the case, shouldn't this conflict have started 20 years ago? Got a link?) But what is the long-term strategic objective? IS there an objective? Or is it just "I'm mad at you so I'm going to kill you" ? What is a satisfactory outcome to all of this?
The way that the events have played out, I think that the KDF has two possible strategic goals in the war against the Federation.
One would be purging the Federation of Undine, or forcing it to take action purgin them from their own ranks (which has not happened in the Federation yet, they're behaving quite ignorant I don't know why).
The other would be establishing Klingon control & supremacy in the disputed systems that J'mpok announced the KDF is "taking back". By doing this he could preserve his honor on his word and Klingon tradition of conquest when going to war as well as revenge for the conflict in Romulan space.
Edit - I must however mention Spock's statement quoting J'mpok - "Only in war a Klingon is trully a Klingon". So as far as that goes I guess "I'm mad at you so I'm going to kill you" works for him as well.
I consider both faction's skirmishes with the Tal Shiar, and assistance to the Republic a form of war.
Of course the battle with the Borg is war.
There are many threats against Klingons, Republic, and Federation, war is everywhere, therefore I consider this time of warfare GWI, Galaxy War I.
What exactly is wrong with it with out the off coloured jokes ever heard of the pm system or you can come over to my boards and say this if you got the guts to?
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
It is Cryptic that made this game with the Federation - Klingon War in mind, shattering the alliance that persisted through all of TNG, almost all of DS9, and went right into the end of the Dominion War and beyond.
Personally, it annoyed me when STO released with the alliance shattered. But, being a Star Trek geek that I am, I do know that there is alot of potentially great war story arcs to be had. Quite a bit of Classic Trek background has to do with the wars (cold and hot) between these 2 powers, going back to TOS days.
But Cryptic has not done anything with the war and just ignored it. This includes PVP and PVE. Absolutely nothing done. The same story and background we have now is the exact same that we had when this game was released. That's how little attention this "war" has had in STO development.
It's a ZOMBIE THREAD!!!! RUNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is what a real war should be. Like Ker'rat, but applied to every planet and system in Eta Eridani. Respawn is at K-7 or Ganalda, and you can be attacked at any time, any place.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Must resist urge.........avoid telling joke..... Must resist.....
R.I.P
That's joke is bad and you should feel bad. Should I feel bad for knowing it? I think so. Come, let me buy you a drink and we can feel bad together.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Oh yes, ...new cities, homes in the country, ...your woman at your side, children playing at your feet. And overhead, fluttering in the breeze, the flag of the Federation. Charming.
:mad:
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Frankly I would prefer if I could be attacked in subspace as I travel between systems because it would make the game more enjoyable. Right now I can travel anywhere with impunity.
USS Dallas (NCC361836-A) - Defiant Class
USS Florida (NCC361513) - Sovereign Class (Mirror)
USS Stonewall Jackson (NCC241861) - Prometheus Class
Lol. That joke evidently crosses all racial barriers. I guess all males of any species have made that "promise" at one time another in the throws of passion.
R.I.P
And on the other side of the border, the flag of the Empire. I don't see the problem.
I don't think anybody's suggesting the Klingons join the Federation. Just a peace treaty, like they had during TNG.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
That said one way or another Cryptic need to get the hell on with this supposed war or end it with the reformation of the Khitomer accords. There is even story potential there with both sides as well as the RR knowing that they are being played like Data's violin by the Iconians. Which also ties in the unresolved undine stuff which is also down to said Iconinan meddling.
They have all our consoles, cloaked ships...let's merge and get it over with.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
And just in case that sounded like some fantasy stories, it's called Bakumetsu. The House of Mortok and House of Grilka can easily stand in for Satcho alliance, which does started out as Seii elements but ended up being more friendly to foreign powers.
If ya hadn't already noticed there's already too much peace in the universe, you can travel almost anywhere without being attacked by anyone. If the devs actually say the 2 factions will be part of a peace treaty MANY missions will have to be remastered from both factions as well as many random encounters.
It's bad enough that a few of the new KDF missions still call me a Federation captain , I won't bother playing at all if the universe is put into a perpetual kumbaya moment (excluding the Romulan lapdogs for each faction). I can find better ways to put myself to sleep.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG