Push the Devs to create some fed missions that allow the individual fed player to realize that Undine have infiltrated to the very top of the UFP and the KDF was right afterall
This would facilitate a Section 31 mission can both allow the fed to apoligise and petition the High Council to work with KDF forces to fight the greater enemy.
Do the same for the KDF but from the PoV of our side of things.
Tie it all together so it makes sense to the playerbase instead of the forced storyline that wehave now.
Thats my beef with it. It has no good story and was forced upon us, this co-op against the greater foe. Forced after the KDF tried get feds in from the begining and where rebuked.
Forced upon us and given a fed flavor as if it was thier idea all along.
Do I want to see this game present a Peace between the Empire and Federation?
No, I would like instead to actually see all the deeply interesting and complex insinuations found by scouring this game's BACKSTORY brought to the forefront and fed to us over the first 20 levels of our Faction, instead of, well, nothing.
This is a bit like asking if we would prefer to go to Kyoto Japan or stay at home for vacation and do local Japaneesy things for 2 weeks, after reading up on Japan and Kyoto for 3 years.
Hey, yeah we can go do all that stuff when we finally have enough saved away, or, you know, get to go to the Japanese market here in this state for a few weeks, but do it right now.
No, thanks. I'd rather keep saving and eventually go to Japan... er... I mean get to actually SEE this war we keep hearing about.
(Kyoto is amazing, by the way, and so much better than just schleping to the nearest Mitsuwa Market - though Mitsuwa does feel a lot like the Japanese supermarkets I've been in)
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
In one way I can see peace as being a good thing as it means more people in the pool to do STFs and other group stuff with , especially for us poor Klingons.
On the other hand though no, so many nos in fact. There needs to be a actual war first not this farce of a ''war'' we have now with a few instanced zones and Kerrat. Plus as others have said the only thing stopping the KDF from getting rolled into a sub faction of the Federation while every Starfleet captain and his targ are flying round in a bird of prey or a Negh'var.
Add meaningful content to the KDF so its actually worth playing them from a story perspective and so the faction can level up from 1 like the Federation, tidy up the whole mess that is the KDF and Fed combined story line of the Undine infiltration and add in some actual PvP with a decent meta game like territory control for example.
So tldr version: while I can see some benefits of peace I feel it would be the last nail in the coffin of the KDF as a independent faction.
- Formerly Captain Zipa, lifer that recently returned.
Peace with the feds? Now why would we want that... Instead I say extend the warzones! Turn all of the eta eridani block into a giant battlefield! Fed and KDF NPCs fighting constantly, players able to join in and slaughter each other, and constant attacks from NPCs from both factions at all times!
Ex. I enter Eta Eridani, start to make my way to drazona. Suddenly a neg'vhar decloaks in front of me and I enter a loading screen. I drop out of warp and find myself suddenly in the middle of a fight with a dozen Klingon ships. Then fed reinforcements drop out of warp and we all fight until all of one side is dead. If you win, you get the choice of hanging around and fighting reinforcements or leaving. If you lose (yes, LOSE), you are captured and you have to fight your way out of a Klingon brig, and then you can warp out after beaming back to your broke-#$% ship.
Also if they implement this, you should get rewards for winning (ECs, bonus expertise, loot, whatever), and if you lose, well that's your problem :P
Alternate: drop out of warp into a fight already going on between fed and KDF ships. Join in the fun. Reinforcements show up for both sides and a real fight gets going. Note: both of these examples are applicable for both fed and KDF players. Winner is last side standing.
Another idea: have special zones where there is constant fighting between fed and KDF ships that you can warp in, and NPCs spawn every two or three minutes, and the spawns are random and designed to compensate for existing situation (i.e. if the KDF ships won and there are no fed ships around, the next fed spawn is larger and has more powerful ships so that balance can be restored, and vice versa). Also have random dreadnought spawns (i.e. Vo'quvs, Bortas, Odysseys, Jupiters, etc). You get loot after you leave (determined by how many spawns you survived/stayed for, but have a cap so players don't just stay there unless they want to fight)
Turn the warzone into an actual warzone! TRIBBLE this peace bull-TRIBBLE!
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Doubtful any still exist on the High Council. Tests where run and according to the STO backstory at least one whole house was destroyed in the process and wiped from its place on the council.
Perhaps they infiltrated the High Council after the tests were run. I'm pretty sure that one or two of the Councilmen are Species 8472, just like Admiral Quinn is (I have operatives in ESD)
Anyway, I continue to stand by my original statement, make everyone choose for themselves who their enemies are!
The Klingons are not the type to let that happen. I am sure everyone has to undergo screening at random intervals.....unless you are one of those annoying TRIBBLE Rpers who either rewrites or ignores the STO storyline to suit your own purposes. Don't get me wrong I like rping I just hate the ones who do that.
Perhaps they infiltrated the High Council after the tests were run. I'm pretty sure that one or two of the Councilmen are Species 8472, just like Admiral Quinn is (I have operatives in ESD)
The Klingons are not the Psychlos from "Battlefield Earth", who only checked every couple of hours on the man-animals with a picture-cam.;)
Remember this line from DS9: "Klingons are obsessed with blood screenings" ?
They'd be even more vigilant with this enemy.:P
This was asked and answered during dstahls Q/A the other day.
So that basically means, something has to happen first before the Klingon Empire accepts peace. Makes sense to me
And I for one don't want the peace to end, for storyline and/or gameplay reasons
Exactly. There needs to be story to back it up. Story wich the KDF has little of at all.
I would prefer a cold war setting to it, with the individual players making some sort of cease-fire decision based on story from ingame instead of a imposed peace for the sake of ease of creation.
The Klingons are not the Psychlos from "Battlefield Earth", who only checked every couple of hours on the man-animals with a picture-cam.;)
Remember this line from DS9: "Klingons are obsessed with blood screenings" ?
They'd be even more vigilant with this enemy.:P
Without a doubt. Yet the KDF has a poorer Undine story line than the feds to enjoy. Thats a shame. We need story before the talk of a cease fire can exist. Peace though would most likely never happen as the Klingons would most certainly see the feds inability to police thier on command staff and populace against Undine spies as a weakness that may never be overlooked.
I'm not sure we could actually tell the difference.
From a player PvP perspective the war is a joke. There is no "war goals" PvP or campain.
There is no territory or star systems changing hands. Basicly all the "war" is, is a story plot item that doesn't really seem to do a whole lot for the player experience.
Before peace, could we please actually have a war?
I'm Klingon where my war, I was told there was a war, and I showed up now where is it.. I WILL NOT BE CHEATED!
Well that wouldn't really work well the way the things are unfortunately. If there was system control battles I would say odds are feds might win simply because of pure overwhelming numbers...maybe if season 8 is gonna bring a more complete KDF more people will be interested.
Then in the future we could progress with stuff like that...sorta like STO's version of *world* PvP.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Well that wouldn't really work well the way the things are unfortunately. If there was system control battles I would say odds are feds might win simply because of pure overwhelming numbers.
...and because of KDF consoles given to drooling feds.
Grinding for MkIV epic gear?
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
Peace is needed.
If you read the dev diary from a few months ago about the romulans, it is needed.
How can it be done? By choice. A fed rep system.
What do you get for finishing it?
Allowed to join fed mission queue's . Allowed to to fed missions.
Allowed to go to earth.
Doing fed mission with the right rep will give you more rep (because you are helping the Feds).
No items or skills. Just fed stuff.
Peace is not needed, imo, but it has been forced at endgame so the players can enjoy the content.
What is needed now is all the missing KDF backstory mission content that doesnt currently exist that makes sense of why a KDF player may choose to help in the endgame content.
The same is needed for the feds. Keep the war as a low level storyline and slowly reveal the reasons its Undine subversion to the player through missions as one levels up.
It allows for PvP to still exist and places the individual player as the lone decisive hero fighting for the right cause without it being imposed.
In terms of gameplay...there are Fed players who salivate over the idea that as a Federation Captain, they could conceivably captain a Bird of Prey or Vorcha cruiser...because we are all friends, right?
What we need is a revamp of the PvP system...and then the introduction of real PvE war-oriented events and missions that have a real effect in the game. Things like territory control which, when owned by a specific faction, allows access to rich deposits of resources or some such idea. Or...how about real exploration, where new systems are found and then have to be won over by either the Klingons or Federation -- through conquest or through diplomacy. Klingons DO have a form of diplomacy...and I can see where some alien races might find the Klingon Way attractive -- no meddling by the Federation, no prime directive to limit their technological advancement, aggressive capitalism and trading opportunities. Being a vassal of the Klingon Empire has its advantages....
One of the problems with the state of the war as it stands now though is this -- Klingons are probably outnumbered by roughly ten to one. I know that the heart of a warrior laughs at such odds...but if the galaxy were opened up to general warfare, there are probably not enough of us to hold on to what we currently control, let alone expand. If the balance of captains was closer...even to a 60/40 in favor of the Feds, we could prevail I think.
Despite the disparity in numbers though...there should never be peace. Peace with the Federation would compromise some core principles -- the idea that the Federation has been infiltrated at the highest levels by the Undine, for example. Only the Klingon Empire knows for certain that it is free from this taint -- the Federation turns a blind eye towards this issue, and in fact in past missions it has been shown that high level Federation admirals were in fact Undine. In this sense, the Klingon Empire represents the only viable defense against the threats of the galaxy...because we know for certain that "here we stand, we can do no other!"
I agree that enhancements can be made through using the reputation system. I think that it could be ok if at end-game level it would be up to the player's choice wheather he'll cooperate with Feds. for example and promote peace or not.
However, we'd need a revamp of the reputation system. Ok, maybe not a revamp, but the rep. system needs to grow into something more than just grinding for marks/dil./items so you can buy equipment of a certain faction/reputation.
What is needes is the ability of choice to be implemented in the future with the reputations.
For example, my KDF captain can be benevolent towards Romulans, which in consequence will increase my reputation with Rommies and get me access to equipment unique for their rep. But at the same time their enemies, let's say Tholians for the sake of the argument, don't like me working with Rommies and my rep. with them decreases or goes negative, which in consequence will prevent me from using their toys. Now, some other player that blows Romulan ships will have this 'Tholian' rep and access to their toys, but not the Romulan ones.
You know, we'll be able to have a little more diversity and probably more brain exercise than just everyone having everything just the same. Plus, from immersion perspective it will provide the players that want peace with certain faction (Fed. for ex.) to be friendly and have peace & cooperation with Feds., but it would also be possible for Klingons that couln't bare to help Romulans on their new colony to take a different path.
Long shot I know, but we're all allowed to dream. Imagine how would that be like...
One of the problems with the state of the war as it stands now though is this -- Klingons are probably outnumbered by roughly ten to one. I know that the heart of a warrior laughs at such odds...but if the galaxy were opened up to general warfare, there are probably not enough of us to hold on to what we currently control, let alone expand. If the balance of captains was closer...even to a 60/40 in favor of the Feds, we could prevail I think.
Ofcourse that a possible opened galaxy combat is not plausible at the moment. There can be no such thing having a breast-fed faction since the beggining against a gimped faction. Hell, the numbers of Fed. players will always be higher, not only because more players are fans of the Federation, but because you have to start as a Fed. in STO. Talking about fresh blood. :rolleyes:
The next best thing would be war zones for control of certain sectors, but with limited pre-determined number of players that will go into the battle on both sides.
If there was system control battles I would say odds are feds might win simply because of pure overwhelming numbers...
I strongly disagree.
Been in other games where small groups consistently destroyed larger ones over spans of hours in open world FFA PVP.
In terms of STO, KDF has quality PVPers, always has.
Have to factor in that KDF has cloaking tech so we get to pick and choose our battles. We fight smarter, not harder.
Even if we get downplayed to nothing better than an insurgency, we will still have more pluses than minuses.
The average feddie does not PVP, has their ship kitted out entirely for PVE as is their mind-set and play-style. Equip more borg gear and weapons based on sounds and colors that you like! They are fighting themselves first, and us second.
Like others, what I would really like to see is consensual, open galaxy, territorial control-based PVP. Scrap the queues and let's fight for the map. Let's bring conflict and danger to the game!
What we need is a revamp of the PvP system...and then the introduction of real PvE war-oriented events and missions that have a real effect in the game.
Things like territory control which, when owned by a specific faction, allows access to rich deposits of resources or some such idea. Or...how about real exploration, where new systems are found and then have to be won over by either the Klingons or Federation -- through conquest or through diplomacy. Klingons DO have a form of diplomacy...and I can see where some alien races might find the Klingon Way attractive -- no meddling by the Federation, no prime directive to limit their technological advancement, aggressive capitalism and trading opportunities. Being a vassal of the Klingon Empire has its advantages....
"
Yeah, I like the idea of PVE affecting territorial control. Gives the non-PVPers a chance to make their mark and be contributing to their faction's war effort. Make perfect sense!
Crafting and Resources could use an over-haul, too. Those are things worth fighting for and do more to promote conflict than lame-assed PVP gear and titles.
Ground combat could tie in to resources also. Have extraction and refining facilities to set-up, attack and defend. So much potential.
The next best thing would be war zones for control of certain sectors, but with limited pre-determined number of players that will go into the battle on both sides.
Basically, you are proposing a bigger queue.
I do like the idea of bigger places to fight in, namely open areas. Non-instanced.
As for the numbers game, I think the feddies need to roll deep aka have more of them than the KDF. Gives them a chance to win and might lessen the QQ when they lose.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Rather like that idea, even though I'm no sort of a PvPer myself. I picked up a bad habit of wanting to do things my own way from playing Underlight, which is a completely freestyle MMORPG where the only rule is it should make RP sense, so I'm always up for anything that lets the players decide instead of giving them a script.
For the same reasons, I like shpoks's reputation idea so much I'm starting a new thread for it (in the General Feedback section) rather than derail this one.
I do like the idea of bigger places to fight in, namely open areas. Non-instanced.
As for the numbers game, I think the feddies need to roll deep aka have more of them than the KDF. Gives them a chance to win and might lessen the QQ when they lose.
Not necessarily, not only bigger queue, but I was proposing here a system for sector control. Let's say Xarantine Sector for ex. There would have to be somekind of system implemented to measure who has the hold on the sector, for example the first faction to get to 100 battle victories and after that, whichever faction is in the lead.
The disputed sectors would have a social zone, mission locations and possibly some acess to unique equipment or sth. else only found in that sector what would make it tempting.
Basically for this there shouldn't be only one queue per say, maybe a dozen of 20 vs 20 for example, although as you said, it would still be a queue.
Believe me, I take it that I might be wrong, but at this moment I'm pretty certain that if Cryptic today says - "From tommorow you'll have open space combat" the KDF will be ovverrun. I agree we have better PvPers, but conider this:
- Feds have vast amount of numbers on the KDF
- Feds have access to many KDF consoles (so no element of suprise there)
- Feds also have cloak on the Defiant, combined with the 5 tac. console fleet version they could pretty much adapt & use KDF tactics.
- Feds have access to free science ships, that ususally are equiped with better tech.
- Feds outnumber the KDF in trolls, and believe me there will be entire fleets of trolls outnumbering the KDF, just for the sake of trolling and outnumbering.
Open non-instanced combat would be ok in STO if it's only about the combat. If it results in controling sectors of space, rules need to be applied because it would be Fed. all the way.
Not necessarily, not only bigger queue, but I was proposing here a system for sector control. Let's say Xarantine Sector for ex. There would have to be somekind of system implemented to measure who has the hold on the sector, for example the first faction to get to 100 battle victories and after that, whichever faction is in the lead.
The disputed sectors would have a social zone, mission locations and possibly some acess to unique equipment or sth. else only found in that sector what would make it tempting.
Basically for this there shouldn't be only one queue per say, maybe a dozen of 20 vs 20 for example, although as you said, it would still be a queue.
Believe me, I take it that I might be wrong, but at this moment I'm pretty certain that if Cryptic today says - "From tommorow you'll have open space combat" the KDF will be ovverrun. I agree we have better PvPers, but conider this:
- Feds have vast amount of numbers on the KDF
- Feds have access to many KDF consoles (so no element of suprise there)
- Feds also have cloak on the Defiant, combined with the 5 tac. console fleet version they could pretty much adapt & use KDF tactics.
- Feds have access to free science ships, that ususally are equiped with better tech.
- Feds outnumber the KDF in trolls, and believe me there will be entire fleets of trolls outnumbering the KDF, just for the sake of trolling and outnumbering.
Open non-instanced combat would be ok in STO if it's only about the combat. If it results in controling sectors of space, rules need to be applied because it would be Fed. all the way.
I see what you are saying and it's a step up from what we got now but I still disagree based on my earlier statements.
Numbers are not everything and I know we can hit them where it hurts. The feddies would be nothing more than a Zerg at best and even those can be chipped at. They tend to congregate in one spot versus be everywhere at once so the KDF can exercise initiative and the freedom to be pro-active. Again, we pick the battles.
If small numbers were ineffective then insurgencies would not exist and larger forces would be able to better counter them. Trying not to get rl with this but attrition, continual resistance, and force multiplication can do a lot.
Plus, I believe organized fleets would rise to the challenge. Open galaxy combat would give a purpose for Fleets to develop and evolve rather than be just homes for pre-mades.
Also, there is the possibility of adding NPC enemies in each sector and they can respond to reputations to outright attack. Borg could be present and they would have to be dealt with.
As for the KDF numbers being small, am sure if there was a real reason to fight we would see our numbers increase. New blood is coming soon from the movie and the "not-Season 8".
Queues suck at 5v5 as it is. Having to get 20v20 just sounds even lamer. Queues and instances are what ruin PVP in MMOs. Been in MMOs since 2000 and that is what I have seen happen.
I think if a third faction came into the mix, we would see the feddie population lessen.
A Terran Empire faction would further split the feddie vote and open up more PVP.
There is so much to fix that a new game would be the answer but if we are to polish the TRIBBLE, then it has to start with fixing PVP and why we fight.
Support more thinking on the matter and thanks for your contributions!
P.S.
Also, to do what we been talking of, the devs would have to stop giving feddies all the KDF specific gear. Actually, they should make sure KDF stuff stays in the KDF in order to give us a better fighting chance... since we will always be out-numbered.
P.S.S.
There could be System defenses:
Starbases, obstacles like minefields and energy barrriers, turrets, NPC ships and fighters, all kinds of stuff to make up for our lack of numbers. Items could be faction-specific and lore-based as to help bolster the underdog.
Maybe these things could be worked on via PVE missions and bring another layer to the gaming onion?
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
I would like to see the Klingon Empire part ways with the Federation. Be that through some peace accord or a simple cease fire or whatever. The result I would want is the two factions becoming so far apart in story the Klingons can feel like they are all alone when you play as a Klingon. What I mean is, stop intertwining the two factions and start creating Klingon specific stories that progress their future and hash out their religion and past and all that.
Peace? I don't even feel we're at war with the Federation. Those are only rumours
I am at war every time I login here or there.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
I see what you are saying and it's a step up from what we got now but I still disagree based on my earlier statements.
Numbers are not everything and I know we can hit them where it hurts. The feddies would be nothing more than a Zerg at best and even those can be chipped at.
[snap]
As for the KDF numbers being small, am sure if there was a real reason to fight we would see our numbers increase. New blood is coming soon from the movie and the "not-Season 8".
[snap]
I think if a third faction came into the mix, we would see the feddie population lessen.
A Terran Empire faction would further split the feddie vote and open up more PVP.
[snap]
P.S.
Also, to do what we been talking of, the devs would have to stop giving feddies all the KDF specific gear. Actually, they should make sure KDF stuff stays in the KDF in order to give us a better fighting chance... since we will always be out-numbered.
- First, never underestimate the Federation!
- The "new blood" is obliged to start as a Fed. and if the trend continues and S8 is not "big" for the KDF, unfortunately I can't see many of them converting to the Empire.
- I agree, a third (preferably Romulan) faction would improve the game in general, the PvP environment and take a nice chunk to the current Fed. players.
- If Terran Empire faction ever appears (which will never ever ever happen), I'm protesting untill they give me Santa Clause faction with Raindeer Sledge Dreadnought! We have enough of multi-dimensional and temporal incursions as it is already.
- The last part, the P.S. - I really want to, but I just can't see that happening.
On I lighter note, I completely agree with what you're saying. I'd like to see those suggestions you've made implemented in STO. But, the realist that I am, I somehow don't believe it will be available for us as players in the forseable future. Fingers crossed that I'm wrong about it and that Cryptic will surprise us all!
- First, never underestimate the Federation!
- The "new blood" is obliged to start as a Fed. and if the trend continues and S8 is not "big" for the KDF, unfortunately I can't see many of them converting to the Empire.
- I agree, a third (preferably Romulan) faction would improve the game in general, the PvP environment and take a nice chunk to the current Fed. players.
- If Terran Empire faction ever appears (which will never ever ever happen), I'm protesting untill they give me Santa Clause faction with Raindeer Sledge Dreadnought! We have enough of multi-dimensional and temporal incursions as it is already.
- The last part, the P.S. - I really want to, but I just can't see that happening.
On I lighter note, I completely agree with what you're saying. I'd like to see those suggestions you've made implemented in STO. But, the realist that I am, I somehow don't believe it will be available for us as players in the forseable future. Fingers crossed that I'm wrong about it and that Cryptic will surprise us all!
If the new blood was like me, they will make their toon, level it up and then join the KDF to check it out. Luckily, it is fast to level in STO.
I was thinking of more than just 3 factions. Multiple factions. Romulan, Terran Empire, Tholian, Undine... but no Borg!
Was just thinking of ways to break up the feddie playerbase and spread it out more. Plus, more factions would really amp up the conflict and open the door for true diplomacy and politics, too. We should be controlling things like that, not devs.
I got a big wish-list but will be happy just to see a step forward for the KDF and for PVP. Change has to start somewhere.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Peace with the Federation. This old question again?
First, the war has not been fought. Few here even know what a war between galactic hegemonys means. War means diplomacy continued by other means. To win a war each side has to invade space, a vast area without real barriers, destroy their enemies resources and will to wage war, kill their ability to resist, and occupy and HOLD whole planets and control the populace, forcing them to assimilate to new ideologies from alien species.
This game is not set up for this. There is no means to destroy infrastructure, take access to dilithium, the petroleum of Star Trek, from the enemy, take and hold planets, permanently kill players and their ships, wipe out populations.
Peace or war with the Fed is pure story and hyperbole. All I know is when I am playing my KDF toons I want to be able to team with friend playing either side.
Opening up play would take away Cryptics argument of KDF player population being a minority and may increase pressure on them to generate more real content.
The view of the KDF is too bound up with being the "bad guys". Klingons are a race. They did not become a star faring race by being a bunch of idiots. They farm, research, build houses, have cultural events, and live by laws and the best code of honor in the game. The best warrior mentality in the game. War is not meant to last forever. It lasts until one side or the other achieves their objective or both sides find no more reason to fight. After that sides return to regular daily life.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Opening up play would take away Cryptics argument of KDF player population being a minority and may increase pressure on them to generate more real content.
The view of the KDF is too bound up with being the "bad guys". Klingons are a race. They did not become a star faring race by being a bunch of idiots. They farm, research, build houses, have cultural events, and live by laws and the best code of honor in the game. The best warrior mentality in the game. War is not meant to last forever. It lasts until one side or the other achieves their objective or both sides find no more reason to fight. After that sides return to regular daily life.
How do you see the possibility to 'open up play' as something that could lead to more content? Not being sarcastic here, it's just I've always thought that the same thing is a move in the direction of having less KDF content.
About the second quoted paragraph - I'm really glad to see one more member of STO that understands what the Klingon are. Compared to the entire STO comunity, this type of people are a rare comodity. I applaud you for what you wrote!
lol Reminded me of me...I still have to level a Fed. char to 50 :P
How do you see the possibility to 'open up play' as something that could lead to more content? Not being sarcastic here, it's just I've always thought that the same thing is a move in the direction of having less KDF content.
About the second quoted paragraph - I'm really glad to see one more member of STO that understands what the Klingon are. Compared to the entire STO comunity, this type of people are a rare comodity. I applaud you for what you wrote!
The reason is that by getting rid of that on going war but keeping the rivalry and the drive to expand and compete for territory while allowing factions to do content together it creates more opportunity to develop original story arcs. It also means Cryptrick cannot say KDF is only x% minority group while Federation is the 70% majority so we will only develop 1 side. It will force them to develop the whole 100%.if you see my meaning.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Comments
Push the Devs to create some fed missions that allow the individual fed player to realize that Undine have infiltrated to the very top of the UFP and the KDF was right afterall
This would facilitate a Section 31 mission can both allow the fed to apoligise and petition the High Council to work with KDF forces to fight the greater enemy.
Do the same for the KDF but from the PoV of our side of things.
Tie it all together so it makes sense to the playerbase instead of the forced storyline that wehave now.
Thats my beef with it. It has no good story and was forced upon us, this co-op against the greater foe. Forced after the KDF tried get feds in from the begining and where rebuked.
Forced upon us and given a fed flavor as if it was thier idea all along.
Meh, it needs a rewrite.
R.I.P
No, I would like instead to actually see all the deeply interesting and complex insinuations found by scouring this game's BACKSTORY brought to the forefront and fed to us over the first 20 levels of our Faction, instead of, well, nothing.
This is a bit like asking if we would prefer to go to Kyoto Japan or stay at home for vacation and do local Japaneesy things for 2 weeks, after reading up on Japan and Kyoto for 3 years.
Hey, yeah we can go do all that stuff when we finally have enough saved away, or, you know, get to go to the Japanese market here in this state for a few weeks, but do it right now.
No, thanks. I'd rather keep saving and eventually go to Japan... er... I mean get to actually SEE this war we keep hearing about.
(Kyoto is amazing, by the way, and so much better than just schleping to the nearest Mitsuwa Market - though Mitsuwa does feel a lot like the Japanese supermarkets I've been in)
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On the other hand though no, so many nos in fact. There needs to be a actual war first not this farce of a ''war'' we have now with a few instanced zones and Kerrat. Plus as others have said the only thing stopping the KDF from getting rolled into a sub faction of the Federation while every Starfleet captain and his targ are flying round in a bird of prey or a Negh'var.
Add meaningful content to the KDF so its actually worth playing them from a story perspective and so the faction can level up from 1 like the Federation, tidy up the whole mess that is the KDF and Fed combined story line of the Undine infiltration and add in some actual PvP with a decent meta game like territory control for example.
So tldr version: while I can see some benefits of peace I feel it would be the last nail in the coffin of the KDF as a independent faction.
- Formerly Captain Zipa, lifer that recently returned.
Ex. I enter Eta Eridani, start to make my way to drazona. Suddenly a neg'vhar decloaks in front of me and I enter a loading screen. I drop out of warp and find myself suddenly in the middle of a fight with a dozen Klingon ships. Then fed reinforcements drop out of warp and we all fight until all of one side is dead. If you win, you get the choice of hanging around and fighting reinforcements or leaving. If you lose (yes, LOSE), you are captured and you have to fight your way out of a Klingon brig, and then you can warp out after beaming back to your broke-#$% ship.
Also if they implement this, you should get rewards for winning (ECs, bonus expertise, loot, whatever), and if you lose, well that's your problem :P
Alternate: drop out of warp into a fight already going on between fed and KDF ships. Join in the fun. Reinforcements show up for both sides and a real fight gets going. Note: both of these examples are applicable for both fed and KDF players. Winner is last side standing.
Another idea: have special zones where there is constant fighting between fed and KDF ships that you can warp in, and NPCs spawn every two or three minutes, and the spawns are random and designed to compensate for existing situation (i.e. if the KDF ships won and there are no fed ships around, the next fed spawn is larger and has more powerful ships so that balance can be restored, and vice versa). Also have random dreadnought spawns (i.e. Vo'quvs, Bortas, Odysseys, Jupiters, etc). You get loot after you leave (determined by how many spawns you survived/stayed for, but have a cap so players don't just stay there unless they want to fight)
Turn the warzone into an actual warzone! TRIBBLE this peace bull-TRIBBLE!
Perhaps they infiltrated the High Council after the tests were run. I'm pretty sure that one or two of the Councilmen are Species 8472, just like Admiral Quinn is (I have operatives in ESD)
Anyway, I continue to stand by my original statement, make everyone choose for themselves who their enemies are!
The Klingons are not the Psychlos from "Battlefield Earth", who only checked every couple of hours on the man-animals with a picture-cam.;)
Remember this line from DS9: "Klingons are obsessed with blood screenings" ?
They'd be even more vigilant with this enemy.:P
Exactly. There needs to be story to back it up. Story wich the KDF has little of at all.
I would prefer a cold war setting to it, with the individual players making some sort of cease-fire decision based on story from ingame instead of a imposed peace for the sake of ease of creation.
R.I.P
Without a doubt. Yet the KDF has a poorer Undine story line than the feds to enjoy. Thats a shame. We need story before the talk of a cease fire can exist. Peace though would most likely never happen as the Klingons would most certainly see the feds inability to police thier on command staff and populace against Undine spies as a weakness that may never be overlooked.
R.I.P
Well that wouldn't really work well the way the things are unfortunately. If there was system control battles I would say odds are feds might win simply because of pure overwhelming numbers...maybe if season 8 is gonna bring a more complete KDF more people will be interested.
Then in the future we could progress with stuff like that...sorta like STO's version of *world* PvP.
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you read the dev diary from a few months ago about the romulans, it is needed.
How can it be done? By choice. A fed rep system.
What do you get for finishing it?
Allowed to join fed mission queue's . Allowed to to fed missions.
Allowed to go to earth.
Doing fed mission with the right rep will give you more rep (because you are helping the Feds).
No items or skills. Just fed stuff.
What is needed now is all the missing KDF backstory mission content that doesnt currently exist that makes sense of why a KDF player may choose to help in the endgame content.
The same is needed for the feds. Keep the war as a low level storyline and slowly reveal the reasons its Undine subversion to the player through missions as one levels up.
It allows for PvP to still exist and places the individual player as the lone decisive hero fighting for the right cause without it being imposed.
R.I.P
No peace.
In terms of gameplay...there are Fed players who salivate over the idea that as a Federation Captain, they could conceivably captain a Bird of Prey or Vorcha cruiser...because we are all friends, right?
What we need is a revamp of the PvP system...and then the introduction of real PvE war-oriented events and missions that have a real effect in the game. Things like territory control which, when owned by a specific faction, allows access to rich deposits of resources or some such idea. Or...how about real exploration, where new systems are found and then have to be won over by either the Klingons or Federation -- through conquest or through diplomacy. Klingons DO have a form of diplomacy...and I can see where some alien races might find the Klingon Way attractive -- no meddling by the Federation, no prime directive to limit their technological advancement, aggressive capitalism and trading opportunities. Being a vassal of the Klingon Empire has its advantages....
One of the problems with the state of the war as it stands now though is this -- Klingons are probably outnumbered by roughly ten to one. I know that the heart of a warrior laughs at such odds...but if the galaxy were opened up to general warfare, there are probably not enough of us to hold on to what we currently control, let alone expand. If the balance of captains was closer...even to a 60/40 in favor of the Feds, we could prevail I think.
Despite the disparity in numbers though...there should never be peace. Peace with the Federation would compromise some core principles -- the idea that the Federation has been infiltrated at the highest levels by the Undine, for example. Only the Klingon Empire knows for certain that it is free from this taint -- the Federation turns a blind eye towards this issue, and in fact in past missions it has been shown that high level Federation admirals were in fact Undine. In this sense, the Klingon Empire represents the only viable defense against the threats of the galaxy...because we know for certain that "here we stand, we can do no other!"
However, we'd need a revamp of the reputation system. Ok, maybe not a revamp, but the rep. system needs to grow into something more than just grinding for marks/dil./items so you can buy equipment of a certain faction/reputation.
What is needes is the ability of choice to be implemented in the future with the reputations.
For example, my KDF captain can be benevolent towards Romulans, which in consequence will increase my reputation with Rommies and get me access to equipment unique for their rep. But at the same time their enemies, let's say Tholians for the sake of the argument, don't like me working with Rommies and my rep. with them decreases or goes negative, which in consequence will prevent me from using their toys. Now, some other player that blows Romulan ships will have this 'Tholian' rep and access to their toys, but not the Romulan ones.
You know, we'll be able to have a little more diversity and probably more brain exercise than just everyone having everything just the same. Plus, from immersion perspective it will provide the players that want peace with certain faction (Fed. for ex.) to be friendly and have peace & cooperation with Feds., but it would also be possible for Klingons that couln't bare to help Romulans on their new colony to take a different path.
Long shot I know, but we're all allowed to dream.
Ofcourse that a possible opened galaxy combat is not plausible at the moment. There can be no such thing having a breast-fed faction since the beggining against a gimped faction. Hell, the numbers of Fed. players will always be higher, not only because more players are fans of the Federation, but because you have to start as a Fed. in STO. Talking about fresh blood. :rolleyes:
The next best thing would be war zones for control of certain sectors, but with limited pre-determined number of players that will go into the battle on both sides.
I strongly disagree.
Been in other games where small groups consistently destroyed larger ones over spans of hours in open world FFA PVP.
In terms of STO, KDF has quality PVPers, always has.
Have to factor in that KDF has cloaking tech so we get to pick and choose our battles. We fight smarter, not harder.
Even if we get downplayed to nothing better than an insurgency, we will still have more pluses than minuses.
The average feddie does not PVP, has their ship kitted out entirely for PVE as is their mind-set and play-style. Equip more borg gear and weapons based on sounds and colors that you like! They are fighting themselves first, and us second.
Like others, what I would really like to see is consensual, open galaxy, territorial control-based PVP. Scrap the queues and let's fight for the map. Let's bring conflict and danger to the game!
Yeah, I like the idea of PVE affecting territorial control. Gives the non-PVPers a chance to make their mark and be contributing to their faction's war effort. Make perfect sense!
Crafting and Resources could use an over-haul, too. Those are things worth fighting for and do more to promote conflict than lame-assed PVP gear and titles.
Ground combat could tie in to resources also. Have extraction and refining facilities to set-up, attack and defend. So much potential.
Great ideas!
Qapla'
Basically, you are proposing a bigger queue.
I do like the idea of bigger places to fight in, namely open areas. Non-instanced.
As for the numbers game, I think the feddies need to roll deep aka have more of them than the KDF. Gives them a chance to win and might lessen the QQ when they lose.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
For the same reasons, I like shpoks's reputation idea so much I'm starting a new thread for it (in the General Feedback section) rather than derail this one.
Not necessarily, not only bigger queue, but I was proposing here a system for sector control. Let's say Xarantine Sector for ex. There would have to be somekind of system implemented to measure who has the hold on the sector, for example the first faction to get to 100 battle victories and after that, whichever faction is in the lead.
The disputed sectors would have a social zone, mission locations and possibly some acess to unique equipment or sth. else only found in that sector what would make it tempting.
Basically for this there shouldn't be only one queue per say, maybe a dozen of 20 vs 20 for example, although as you said, it would still be a queue.
Believe me, I take it that I might be wrong, but at this moment I'm pretty certain that if Cryptic today says - "From tommorow you'll have open space combat" the KDF will be ovverrun. I agree we have better PvPers, but conider this:
- Feds have vast amount of numbers on the KDF
- Feds have access to many KDF consoles (so no element of suprise there)
- Feds also have cloak on the Defiant, combined with the 5 tac. console fleet version they could pretty much adapt & use KDF tactics.
- Feds have access to free science ships, that ususally are equiped with better tech.
- Feds outnumber the KDF in trolls, and believe me there will be entire fleets of trolls outnumbering the KDF, just for the sake of trolling and outnumbering.
Open non-instanced combat would be ok in STO if it's only about the combat. If it results in controling sectors of space, rules need to be applied because it would be Fed. all the way.
I see what you are saying and it's a step up from what we got now but I still disagree based on my earlier statements.
Numbers are not everything and I know we can hit them where it hurts. The feddies would be nothing more than a Zerg at best and even those can be chipped at. They tend to congregate in one spot versus be everywhere at once so the KDF can exercise initiative and the freedom to be pro-active. Again, we pick the battles.
If small numbers were ineffective then insurgencies would not exist and larger forces would be able to better counter them. Trying not to get rl with this but attrition, continual resistance, and force multiplication can do a lot.
Plus, I believe organized fleets would rise to the challenge. Open galaxy combat would give a purpose for Fleets to develop and evolve rather than be just homes for pre-mades.
Also, there is the possibility of adding NPC enemies in each sector and they can respond to reputations to outright attack. Borg could be present and they would have to be dealt with.
As for the KDF numbers being small, am sure if there was a real reason to fight we would see our numbers increase. New blood is coming soon from the movie and the "not-Season 8".
Queues suck at 5v5 as it is. Having to get 20v20 just sounds even lamer. Queues and instances are what ruin PVP in MMOs. Been in MMOs since 2000 and that is what I have seen happen.
I think if a third faction came into the mix, we would see the feddie population lessen.
A Terran Empire faction would further split the feddie vote and open up more PVP.
There is so much to fix that a new game would be the answer but if we are to polish the TRIBBLE, then it has to start with fixing PVP and why we fight.
Support more thinking on the matter and thanks for your contributions!
P.S.
Also, to do what we been talking of, the devs would have to stop giving feddies all the KDF specific gear. Actually, they should make sure KDF stuff stays in the KDF in order to give us a better fighting chance... since we will always be out-numbered.
P.S.S.
There could be System defenses:
Starbases, obstacles like minefields and energy barrriers, turrets, NPC ships and fighters, all kinds of stuff to make up for our lack of numbers. Items could be faction-specific and lore-based as to help bolster the underdog.
Maybe these things could be worked on via PVE missions and bring another layer to the gaming onion?
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
I am at war every time I login here or there.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
- First, never underestimate the Federation!
- The "new blood" is obliged to start as a Fed. and if the trend continues and S8 is not "big" for the KDF, unfortunately I can't see many of them converting to the Empire.
- I agree, a third (preferably Romulan) faction would improve the game in general, the PvP environment and take a nice chunk to the current Fed. players.
- If Terran Empire faction ever appears (which will never ever ever happen), I'm protesting untill they give me Santa Clause faction with Raindeer Sledge Dreadnought!
- The last part, the P.S. - I really want to, but I just can't see that happening.
On I lighter note, I completely agree with what you're saying. I'd like to see those suggestions you've made implemented in STO. But, the realist that I am, I somehow don't believe it will be available for us as players in the forseable future. Fingers crossed that I'm wrong about it and that Cryptic will surprise us all!
If the new blood was like me, they will make their toon, level it up and then join the KDF to check it out. Luckily, it is fast to level in STO.
I was thinking of more than just 3 factions. Multiple factions. Romulan, Terran Empire, Tholian, Undine... but no Borg!
Was just thinking of ways to break up the feddie playerbase and spread it out more. Plus, more factions would really amp up the conflict and open the door for true diplomacy and politics, too. We should be controlling things like that, not devs.
I got a big wish-list but will be happy just to see a step forward for the KDF and for PVP. Change has to start somewhere.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
First, the war has not been fought. Few here even know what a war between galactic hegemonys means. War means diplomacy continued by other means. To win a war each side has to invade space, a vast area without real barriers, destroy their enemies resources and will to wage war, kill their ability to resist, and occupy and HOLD whole planets and control the populace, forcing them to assimilate to new ideologies from alien species.
This game is not set up for this. There is no means to destroy infrastructure, take access to dilithium, the petroleum of Star Trek, from the enemy, take and hold planets, permanently kill players and their ships, wipe out populations.
Peace or war with the Fed is pure story and hyperbole. All I know is when I am playing my KDF toons I want to be able to team with friend playing either side.
Opening up play would take away Cryptics argument of KDF player population being a minority and may increase pressure on them to generate more real content.
The view of the KDF is too bound up with being the "bad guys". Klingons are a race. They did not become a star faring race by being a bunch of idiots. They farm, research, build houses, have cultural events, and live by laws and the best code of honor in the game. The best warrior mentality in the game. War is not meant to last forever. It lasts until one side or the other achieves their objective or both sides find no more reason to fight. After that sides return to regular daily life.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
lol
How do you see the possibility to 'open up play' as something that could lead to more content? Not being sarcastic here, it's just I've always thought that the same thing is a move in the direction of having less KDF content.
About the second quoted paragraph - I'm really glad to see one more member of STO that understands what the Klingon are. Compared to the entire STO comunity, this type of people are a rare comodity.
The reason is that by getting rid of that on going war but keeping the rivalry and the drive to expand and compete for territory while allowing factions to do content together it creates more opportunity to develop original story arcs. It also means Cryptrick cannot say KDF is only x% minority group while Federation is the 70% majority so we will only develop 1 side. It will force them to develop the whole 100%.if you see my meaning.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE