THe Ambassador actually did well having a 20 year rule. why the Excel seen so much well from late 23rd century to 2335 earliest where Ambassador takes over. that is a long production run just there and not to say it stop after that. Excel Miranda, and Oberth are the most produce ships in Starfleet history. thus why we see a good deal of them. at start of dominion war my opinion was 60% of Starfleet was Excel and miranada class thus you saw the bulk of them in the fleets. Note I figure 10 Galaxy's active at star of Dominion war so the fleets that didn't have Gals at the core had Ambassador's Which i figure maybe 30 of them active.
Reasonable assumption, variations of the Miranda are seen in TNG as is the Excel. I don't recall seeing any Oberth and only once seeing an Ambassador. Were they shown in any of the DS9 battles?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
But in the last episode where Riker arrives with his dreadnaughted Enterprise. He saved the Enterprise from being scrapped because he was an admiral. A ship that was intended for 100+ years of service was to be scrapped in what 20? Sounds like the Federation was not very happy with the design after all.
That was an alternate timeline created by our lovely friend Q. If you try and use this as proof, I also offer the fact that Starfleet vessels can now travel faster than infinity (warp 13) without turning into lizard creatures.
Now look back at that clip of the Enterprise showing her firepower.
Blew holes in a cube. Cube then healed and began slicing the helpless Enterprise up like a turkey. Saved by better fire power? No. Q sent them home.
Wesley in Best of Both Worlds: "...and our best shot barely scratched the surface."
VFX shots can be messed up (see the phaser coming out of the torpedo tube).
Enterprise-D attacks in BOBW: Repeated refrequenced phaser shots to the tractor emitter managed to disable that. Torpedoes, which should have a higher payload than phasers, did nothing against the Borg Cube. (Oh, and what about the USS Melbourne in the Wolf 359 battle scene in DS9: "Emissary"?)
Defending Enterprise C she takes on three B'rel and kills one. And the remaining two blowup the Enterprise D. Saved by cunning firepower or durability? Nope timeline changed by Enterprise C.
Enterprise-D was required to take the heat in order to allow the higher mission priority - getting the Enterprise-C through the time vortex - to succeed. Picard's ship didn't really move around much, other than turning to aim the torpedo tubes. It was also stated in dialogue that the Enterprise-D came back from a successful skirmish against the Klingon forces at some Federation planet.
Oh and ships other than the Odyssey have been shown dying. Yamato killed by Iconian virus. Unknown galaxy blown up when cube destroyed in First Contact. Enterprise D when a bird of prey gets to shoot through her shields. Did not do even as well as the Oddessy really.
Yamato was TRIBBLE, pure and simple. Nothing to do with a design fault; in fact the hack would probably have succeeded a lot faster if an Excelsior-class starship was there instead. The Galaxy-class starship has three computer cores, which is more than the two cores possessed by a ship of even the Excelsior-Refit type.
There is no proof that another Galaxy-class starship was destroyed in the battle. Yes, you see a floating nacelle that looks very much like a Galaxy-class nacelle. So does the Nebula's, and that class of ship was seen at least twice.
The Generations fight was also due to an unfair advantage, and in fact, it's the crew's fault for not checking Geordi more thoroughly after being so pleasantly returned to the ship, with a spy camera. Besides, the Jem'Hadar fighters didn't even use the higher-yield torpedoes or shoot critical systems. They shot at the tips of the nacelles (Bussard collectors), where the BoP shot all over the Stardrive section in critical places (Warp nacelle coils, main impulse engine exhaust, and the warp reactor coolant system).
I think the best fix to the Galaxy if it really needs one is give the base ship the separation console and give the refit an enhanced warp core only usable in Galaxy class ships. To show the improvements Geordi had done to the Enterprise.
Geordi's improvements only applied to the Enterprise-D. It doesn't make much sense to have every Galaxy-class ship have those modifications, since not every engineer can pull off Geordi's tweaks. The problem with STO's Galaxy-class is the stats, not the console.
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So let's compare. All the way to TNG Farpoint, what brought Admiral McCoy out to the Enterprise? An Excelsior, the frame is still functional. The attempted replacement for that ship, the Ambassador was using newer tech and was bigger, but some how missed the points it needed. So they phased it out.
Pure conjecture.
The Ambassador is seen as a contemporary of the Nebula in DS9s take on the Wolf 359 battle.
And for most of the show it seems to be the cutting edge ship of the Federation. But in the last episode where Riker arrives with his dreadnaughted Enterprise. He saved the Enterprise from being scrapped because he was an admiral. A ship that was intended for 100+ years of service was to be scrapped in what 20? Sounds like the Federation was not very happy with the design after all.
Aside from the fact that we know nothing of the circumstances that placed the Enterprise in a position of being scrapped. It was a Q-Verse creation. So that argument cannot be made.
Now look back at that clip of the Enterprise showing her firepower.
Blew holes in a cube. Cube then healed and began slicing the helpless Enterprise up like a turkey. Saved by better fire power? No. Q sent them home.
The point of mentioning that the Galaxy blew holes in that ship was to illustrate the output capabilities of her phaser array. A display of power against the Borg that has yet to be duplicated.
The argument was never made that she was a match for a Borg Cube as your post here seems to suggest.
Defending Enterprise C she takes on three B'rel and kills one. And the remaining two blowup the Enterprise D. Saved by cunning firepower or durability? Nope timeline changed by Enterprise C.
We never see it blow up. Nor were those B'rels. The were K'Vort class battlecruisers against a single battleship. And that Galaxy variation showed her firepower as well. Even in her limited and handicapped state.
Oh and ships other than the Oddessy have been shown dying.
Ten minute conflict against the much vaunted bugships with no shields and almost completely ineffective weapons. And was able to leave when the Captain decided it was time. Then she took a 4.5 million ton kinetic ton shell to her engineering section. And even though the damage to her superstructure was small, the hit caused the core to explode.
Yamato killed by Iconian virus.
Iconians, a race that operates on such an extreme tech level that they appear to be using magic to most races in the Star Trek universe. Not holding that one against the Yamato, her crew, or the ship design.
Unknown galaxy blown up when cube destroyed in First Contact.
There are no Galaxy class ships in FC.
Enterprise D when a bird of prey gets to shoot through her shields. Did not do even as well as the Oddessy really.
Demonstration of poor command ability more than anything else.
A well placed photon torpedo is something that can take out pretty much any ship we have seen flown by any of the major alpha quadrant powers. HMS Hood or the Bismark anyone.
It is nice to see a new name though +)
Howdy feiqa!
Actually watch when the cube launches the sphere and the cube explodes. It is a galaxy dying with it as the Enterprise goes after the sphere.
Future created by Q I could accept save we have the dreadnaught refit of a Galaxy. So how much was invented by Q and how much was in planning at Starfleet? Sadly we can put conjecture on that for a long time. I will put that as a stalemated argument.
Yamato was a named point out for a Galaxy destroyed in action. And also debatable how fragile the ship is in the nacelles. How many times was the Enterprise D destroyed by clipping a Miranda in that time loop? (Actual question I don't remember.)
Geordi's refits with a higher power availability (and resist energy drain.) Would show the update to current tech level. As was pointed out his improvements were intended for the next class of ship. A little odd for a ship with a potential 100 year service life with refits.
Thus for a refitted ship make sense. Putting the separation console on the regular Galaxy gives it an ability shown in TNG thus canon as well as giving the battle section the turn rate requested and increased firepower from the two halves. It seems the easiest way to accommodate the request for a better Galaxy class in STO without needing to completely redesign it.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Going to agree that someone on the Enterprise dropped the ball not bothering to ever check Geordi's visor. Not like anyone had ever a reason to distrust Duras' sisters or ever seen Geordi compromised.
My point on the being shot through the shields is that the Galaxy may not be as durable as thought. Perhaps it is more a science ship than an engineering or tactical one?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Going to agree that someone on the Enterprise dropped the ball not bothering to ever check Geordi's visor. Not like anyone had ever a reason to distrust Duras' sisters or ever seen Geordi compromised.
My point on the being shot through the shields is that the Galaxy may not be as durable as thought. Perhaps it is more a science ship than an engineering or tactical one?
They had the shield modulation frequency of the Enterprise.
That is why they were able to fire through her shields.
Riker is the one that really dropped the ball, lol.
A single phaser blast, really? Not to mention he doesn't even try to rotate shield frequencies.
The Sisters point out that they are no match for a Galaxy class vessel.
Reasonable assumption, variations of the Miranda are seen in TNG as is the Excel. I don't recall seeing any Oberth and only once seeing an Ambassador. Were they shown in any of the DS9 battles?
I mentioned Oberth so one will say i missed her. yes none seen in DW but how many were destroyed in TNG?
About the Yesterday E-D note as someone has mentoined they were K'Vort not B'rel so it's 3 Battle Cruisers vs a Battleship and a battleship hampered by the fact she had to protect E-C. Could she have done more damage yes. but the writers went for dramatic and heck a change to blow up the enterpise.
As For Riker's E-D her hull life maybe 100 years but who's to say that's not during mothballs. Note Riker said they tried to Decomissin her not scrap her. which means she is rtired from active service and but in the Reserve fleet in case needed, like the connie's and Excels before her.
They had the shield modulation frequency of the Enterprise.
That is why they were able to fire through her shields.
Riker is the one that really dropped the ball, lol.
A single phaser blast, really? Not to mention he doesn't even try to rotate shield frequencies.
The Sisters point out that they are no match for a Galaxy class vessel.
Re-watched the scene again, I stand corrected. That was not a Galaxy.
The part where the sisters are out gunned but get a lucky hit in is reminiscent of another bird of prey taking out the original Enterprise even though he was out gunned. But they stretched a bit.
But I ask this. Even with that shot available to them. How did the Enterprise with all her firepower NOT swat that ship even with it's shields up? They had to trigger the cloak to get her as defenseless then shoot her.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
B'Rel scale but E-D went down for plot reasons only.
everything that happened in the movies/shows was for plot reasons only...however it still happened
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everything that happened in the movies/shows was for plot reasons only...however it still happened
True thus you see the Venture refit and the launch of the Sovereign class. Though powerful the Galaxy class clearly had flaws. Luckily the ship can be modified to reduce or be rid of such flaws.
True thus you see the Venture refit and the launch of the Sovereign class. Though powerful the Galaxy class clearly had flaws. Luckily the ship can be modified to reduce or be rid of such flaws.
the sovereign launching had nothing to do with the galaxy class. they are in completely different weight classes, and dont compete at all on paper, only in the minds of the fans. speaking of which the there is no 'venture refit', thats also fanon.
the galaxy class was built so that 70% of its interior was modular, so it could be setup as a huge science and exploration vassal, or a battleship. this was part of its capability since day 1, when the dominion war happens galaxies were ether left mostly empty or outfitted like the enterrpise D was in yesterdays enterprise.
the sovereign launching had nothing to do with the galaxy class. they are in completely different weight classes, and dont compete at all on paper, only in the minds of the fans. speaking of which the there is no 'venture refit', thats also fanon.
the galaxy class was built so that 70% of its interior was modular, so it could be setup as a huge science and exploration vassal, or a battleship. this was part of its capability since day 1, when the dominion war happens galaxies were ether left mostly empty or outfitted like the enterrpise D was in yesterdays enterprise.
The only counter argument to Galaxy/Sovereign comparison comes from First Contact.
LAFORGE: Captain, we've been out in space for nearly a year now. We're ready! The Enterprise-E is the most advanced starship in the fleet. We should be on the front line.
I suspect with borg and dominion wars the Sovereign is an up rated Galaxy with all the fat trimmed off. Meaning no longer carrying families like a flying military base. Crew members only to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. If not then the borg on the Enterprise E were alot more horrific as parents might be shooting at their own children.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
They had the shield modulation frequency of the Enterprise.
That is why they were able to fire through her shields.
Riker is the one that really dropped the ball, lol.
A single phaser blast, really? Not to mention he doesn't even try to rotate shield frequencies.
The Sisters point out that they are no match for a Galaxy class vessel.
Amazing how fast things go south once Plot armor abandons you.
The only counter argument to Galaxy/Sovereign comparison comes from First Contact.
LAFORGE: Captain, we've been out in space for nearly a year now. We're ready! The Enterprise-E is the most advanced starship in the fleet. We should be on the front line.
I suspect with borg and dominion wars the Sovereign is an up rated Galaxy with all the fat trimmed off. Meaning no longer carrying families like a flying military base. Crew members only to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. If not then the borg on the Enterprise E were alot more horrific as parents might be shooting at their own children.
As stated about 8 pages back, Advanced =/= Powerful. For example, the Sovereign's main phaser array is much smaller than on the Galaxy, and seems to be set for "quick-fire" mode in all of the starship's engagements. Both of these factors results in lower destructive potential compared to the Galaxy-class.
True, the Sovereign-class is no space hotel or flying town (although it is still well suited to diplomatic functions), but that doesn't translate into a stronger, more powerful, deadlier vessel. It seems that the only advantages of the Sovereign is the increase in the number of torpedo launchers, stronger shielding systems (at least in First Contact), better maneuverability/warp speed, and shuttles that can deploy Jeeps.
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the sovereign launching had nothing to do with the galaxy class. they are in completely different weight classes, and dont compete at all on paper, only in the minds of the fans. speaking of which the there is no 'venture refit', thats also fanon.
the galaxy class was built so that 70% of its interior was modular, so it could be setup as a huge science and exploration vassal, or a battleship. this was part of its capability since day 1, when the dominion war happens galaxies were ether left mostly empty or outfitted like the enterrpise D was in yesterdays enterprise.
actually yes it did. Galaxy while a powerhouse was designed with peaceful exploration in mind first. Sovereign is the exact opposite as the borg and the dominion shattered that concept.
And no Ventuie Refit, explain the additional phaser strips on the venture. There is absolutely nothing that disproves the admitted theory that it is an attempt to remove some Galaxy Flaws.
The only counter argument to Galaxy/Sovereign comparison comes from First Contact.
LAFORGE: Captain, we've been out in space for nearly a year now. We're ready! The Enterprise-E is the most advanced starship in the fleet. We should be on the front line.
I suspect with borg and dominion wars the Sovereign is an up rated Galaxy with all the fat trimmed off. Meaning no longer carrying families like a flying military base. Crew members only to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. If not then the borg on the Enterprise E were alot more horrific as parents might be shooting at their own children.
the soverign has about half the volume of a galaxy, yet its got 80% of the crew compliment apparently, why is it so crew dense? and when was it ever said theres no civilains on it? so much is assumed.
advanced will never directly translate to most powerful, ever.
actually yes it did. Galaxy while a powerhouse was designed with peaceful exploration in mind first. Sovereign is the exact opposite as the borg and the dominion shattered that concept.
And no Ventuie Refit, explain the additional phaser strips on the venture. There is absolutely nothing that disproves the admitted theory that it is an attempt to remove some Galaxy Flaws.
it was designed to be a blank slate, set up to be an exploration vessel or battleship, first, actually.
they damaged the 4 foot model when they tried to take the galaxy X TRIBBLE off it, so the pylons arrays were put back on, backward, for filming. then they switched to cgi, and those arrays were never seen again. they were worthless anyway, there was no fireing arc for them to cover that wasn't already covered by arrays already on the secondary hull, or the main saucer arrays itself
the soverign has about half the volume of a galaxy, yet its got 80% of the crew compliment apparently, why is it so crew dense? and when was it ever said theres no civilains on it? so much is assumed.
advanced will never directly translate to most powerful, ever.
it was designed to be a blank slate, set up to be an exploration vessel or battleship, first, actually.
they damaged the 4 foot model when they tried to take the galaxy X TRIBBLE off it, so the pylons arrays were put back on, backward, for filming. then they switched to cgi, and those arrays were never seen again. they were worthless anyway, there was no fireing arc for them to cover that wasn't already covered by arrays already on the secondary hull, or the main saucer arrays itself
Sorry Sovereign is opposite mirror of Galaxy, both multi mission but Gal is explorer leaning, Sovereign tacical. As for DW Gals and Venture Gal Venture was the last fully functioning Galaxy built before war. The DWs are only battle capable and rushed out so they cut time by not putting the Venture strips on just so they get it out there. after war we can assume they were sent back and completed and Given Venture refit. Venture can be the step between standard gal and GalX there is merit for the strips but time is a factor. Hence also why we see Lakota refitted. A more effective fleet in less time but the war was forced sooner than they were ready.
wouldnt say that.
same as you cant put 24 volts through a 12 volt fuse, a single enegry weapon will have a material limit on the energy that cat be put through it, so having 2 weapons cover the same arc is a way of increasing output.
no.
it was designed for modularity & adaptability.
with an array you can, thats how they work. if the huge array on the galaxy class couldn't channel 200 emmiters worth of energy into a single shot, we woud not see the moving glow effect use the entire array in the show. material limits, heat dissipation, its all clearly within tolerance with regards to the part of the array that actually fires
Sorry Sovereign is opposite mirror of Galaxy, both multi mission but Gal is explorer leaning, Sovereign tacical. As for DW Gals and Venture Gal Venture was the last fully functioning Galaxy built before war. The DWs are only battle capable and rushed out so they cut time by not putting the Venture strips on just so they get it out there. after war we can assume they were sent back and completed and Given Venture refit. Venture can be the step between standard gal and GalX there is merit for the strips but time is a factor. Hence also why we see Lakota refitted. A more effective fleet in less time but the war was forced sooner than they were ready.
the sovereign cant fulfill the same tactical role as a galaxy, even if it is pound for pound more tactical. the galaxy simply has twice as many pounds, more then twice the emitters in its big arrays, and unmatched per torp launcher burst potential, even if its in a full explorer setup. if the saucer wasn't the size that it is, it wouldn't be able to mount such large and powerful arrays. even if a galaxy was not designed to be ether/or battleship/explorer, its design would proboly have changed very little, there was no visible exterior difference in yesterdays enterprise.
there were shots of the fleet with 4-10 galaxy in a single fleet, and there was tons of fleet mentioned off screen. by the mid 2370s, the galaxy class was most likely not that rare, they proboly started building as many as they could by wolf 359 by the latest. leaving the interior 3/4 empty, so it was basically just a huge flying armored phaser and torpedo platform must have proved pretty cost effective for them to do it. when they went to retake deep space 9, all the galaxy class steamrollered through the dominion lines disabling or destroying everything in their path. they even got through faster then the defiant did, and began flanking the dominion forces, before the klingons even got there. couldn't help but notice that galaxy going the wrong way, at 9:46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWi-pJLO2m4&feature=related
you can say most of the bulk is wasted space, supported by them leaving them mostly empty during the most brutal war in the federations history. still, it needed to be that size so it could bring the superior firepower from the arrays only they are large enough to have and the damage soak only a ship that large can have, to any engagement it finds itself in. the sovereign trimming the fat also trimmed potential phaser firepower in half. the circumference of a sovereigns saucer rim is about the same as a galaxy's dorsal array. they are in totally different size and firepower weight classes.
with an array you can, thats how they work. if the huge array on the galaxy class couldn't channel 200 emmiters worth of energy into a single shot, we woud not see the moving glow effect use the entire array in the show. material limits, heat dissipation, its all clearly within tolerance with regards to the part of the array that actually fires
the sovereign cant fulfill the same tactical role as a galaxy, even if it is pound for pound more tactical. the galaxy simply has twice as many pounds, more then twice the emitters in its big arrays, and unmatched per torp launcher burst potential, even if its in a full explorer setup. if the saucer wasn't the size that it is, it wouldn't be able to mount such large and powerful arrays. even if a galaxy was not designed to be ether/or battleship/explorer, its design would proboly have changed very little, there was no visible exterior difference in yesterdays enterprise.
there were shots of the fleet with 4-10 galaxy in a single fleet, and there was tons of fleet mentioned off screen. by the mid 2370s, the galaxy class was most likely not that rare, they proboly started building as many as they could by wolf 359 by the latest. leaving the interior 3/4 empty, so it was basically just a huge flying armored phaser and torpedo platform must have proved pretty cost effective for them to do it. when they went to retake deep space 9, all the galaxy class steamrollered through the dominion lines disabling or destroying everything in their path. they even got through faster then the defiant did, and began flanking the dominion forces, before the klingons even got there. couldn't help but notice that galaxy going the wrong way, at 9:46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWi-pJLO2m4&feature=related
you can say most of the bulk is wasted space, supported by them leaving them mostly empty during the most brutal war in the federations history. still, it needed to be that size so it could bring the superior firepower from the arrays only they are large enough to have and the damage soak only a ship that large can have, to any engagement it finds itself in. the sovereign trimming the fat also trimmed potential phaser firepower in half. the circumference of a sovereigns saucer rim is about the same as a galaxy's dorsal array. they are in totally different size and firepower weight classes.
I can see what your saying and i'm not going to say that the gal is not powerful. but Star fleet would shelf the gal for two main reasons reasons.
cant use the new integrated gel packs on the ship systems, stuck with isolinear chips.
no slipstream drive, the bulk that gives her the phaser strength would tear her apart if she even tried.
at best in this time period she would be given patrol work with in the federation borders.
the sovereign on the other hand was designed as the flagship of the fleet, most advanced but not necessarily the strongest. she was meant to give the commands not to be in a hot battle. as well the sovereign was designed to incorporate the gel packs. and with a little tweaking to structural design could use slipstream drive.
personally i like the design better of the sovereign, but don't get me wrong i would love to see a up dated and upgraded version of the gal, just put her were shes meant to be.
the nx 01 a was an alien ship, not a fed ship.
the slipstream was alien tech to voyagers systems, theyd need a refit to get it installed & working properly. a refit every ship in sto has had, since they can all use slipstream.
much like the early nx-01 refit couldnt go to high warp due to the andorian sourced deflector system causing problems.
that includes the gel packs, computer core and eps systems needed to underpin the installation of mk 12 equipment and to have that equipment actually work.
to state "there is a reason why X is so" is nothing but begging the question.
what is that reason?
all ships in sto can use slipstream because thats how the game is designed. yes the nx-01-a is a alien ship but its the first one that can use slipstream, and look at the borg they assimilated slipstream but still use trans wrap instead, ship design has to do with slipstream capable or not.
and for the gel packs a ship would have to be totally redesigned to use them, look how much trouble they would have had on voyager if they had to go back to the chips, most of it's primary systems would not have worked.
just because it works in game does not mean it works in show.
I eagerly follow the discussion but the age argument is thrown in repeatedly. But I ask you, what about the Monarch-class? Sure, it is a Cryptic invention but shouldn't that bring the "Galaxy" to current technological standards (Gel packs and all?)?
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Comments
Reasonable assumption, variations of the Miranda are seen in TNG as is the Excel. I don't recall seeing any Oberth and only once seeing an Ambassador. Were they shown in any of the DS9 battles?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Wesley in Best of Both Worlds: "...and our best shot barely scratched the surface."
VFX shots can be messed up (see the phaser coming out of the torpedo tube).
Enterprise-D attacks in BOBW: Repeated refrequenced phaser shots to the tractor emitter managed to disable that. Torpedoes, which should have a higher payload than phasers, did nothing against the Borg Cube. (Oh, and what about the USS Melbourne in the Wolf 359 battle scene in DS9: "Emissary"?)
Enterprise-D was required to take the heat in order to allow the higher mission priority - getting the Enterprise-C through the time vortex - to succeed. Picard's ship didn't really move around much, other than turning to aim the torpedo tubes. It was also stated in dialogue that the Enterprise-D came back from a successful skirmish against the Klingon forces at some Federation planet.
Yamato was TRIBBLE, pure and simple. Nothing to do with a design fault; in fact the hack would probably have succeeded a lot faster if an Excelsior-class starship was there instead. The Galaxy-class starship has three computer cores, which is more than the two cores possessed by a ship of even the Excelsior-Refit type.
There is no proof that another Galaxy-class starship was destroyed in the battle. Yes, you see a floating nacelle that looks very much like a Galaxy-class nacelle. So does the Nebula's, and that class of ship was seen at least twice.
The Generations fight was also due to an unfair advantage, and in fact, it's the crew's fault for not checking Geordi more thoroughly after being so pleasantly returned to the ship, with a spy camera. Besides, the Jem'Hadar fighters didn't even use the higher-yield torpedoes or shoot critical systems. They shot at the tips of the nacelles (Bussard collectors), where the BoP shot all over the Stardrive section in critical places (Warp nacelle coils, main impulse engine exhaust, and the warp reactor coolant system).
Geordi's improvements only applied to the Enterprise-D. It doesn't make much sense to have every Galaxy-class ship have those modifications, since not every engineer can pull off Geordi's tweaks. The problem with STO's Galaxy-class is the stats, not the console.
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Pure conjecture.
The Ambassador is seen as a contemporary of the Nebula in DS9s take on the Wolf 359 battle.
Aside from the fact that we know nothing of the circumstances that placed the Enterprise in a position of being scrapped. It was a Q-Verse creation. So that argument cannot be made.
The point of mentioning that the Galaxy blew holes in that ship was to illustrate the output capabilities of her phaser array. A display of power against the Borg that has yet to be duplicated.
The argument was never made that she was a match for a Borg Cube as your post here seems to suggest.
We never see it blow up. Nor were those B'rels. The were K'Vort class battlecruisers against a single battleship. And that Galaxy variation showed her firepower as well. Even in her limited and handicapped state.
Ten minute conflict against the much vaunted bugships with no shields and almost completely ineffective weapons. And was able to leave when the Captain decided it was time. Then she took a 4.5 million ton kinetic ton shell to her engineering section. And even though the damage to her superstructure was small, the hit caused the core to explode.
Iconians, a race that operates on such an extreme tech level that they appear to be using magic to most races in the Star Trek universe. Not holding that one against the Yamato, her crew, or the ship design.
There are no Galaxy class ships in FC.
Demonstration of poor command ability more than anything else.
A well placed photon torpedo is something that can take out pretty much any ship we have seen flown by any of the major alpha quadrant powers. HMS Hood or the Bismark anyone.
It is nice to see a new name though +)
Howdy feiqa!
Future created by Q I could accept save we have the dreadnaught refit of a Galaxy. So how much was invented by Q and how much was in planning at Starfleet? Sadly we can put conjecture on that for a long time. I will put that as a stalemated argument.
Yamato was a named point out for a Galaxy destroyed in action. And also debatable how fragile the ship is in the nacelles. How many times was the Enterprise D destroyed by clipping a Miranda in that time loop? (Actual question I don't remember.)
Geordi's refits with a higher power availability (and resist energy drain.) Would show the update to current tech level. As was pointed out his improvements were intended for the next class of ship. A little odd for a ship with a potential 100 year service life with refits.
Thus for a refitted ship make sense. Putting the separation console on the regular Galaxy gives it an ability shown in TNG thus canon as well as giving the battle section the turn rate requested and increased firepower from the two halves. It seems the easiest way to accommodate the request for a better Galaxy class in STO without needing to completely redesign it.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
My point on the being shot through the shields is that the Galaxy may not be as durable as thought. Perhaps it is more a science ship than an engineering or tactical one?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
That is a Steamrunner. Top left corner yes?
They had the shield modulation frequency of the Enterprise.
That is why they were able to fire through her shields.
Riker is the one that really dropped the ball, lol.
A single phaser blast, really? Not to mention he doesn't even try to rotate shield frequencies.
The Sisters point out that they are no match for a Galaxy class vessel.
I mentioned Oberth so one will say i missed her. yes none seen in DW but how many were destroyed in TNG?
As For Riker's E-D her hull life maybe 100 years but who's to say that's not during mothballs. Note Riker said they tried to Decomissin her not scrap her. which means she is rtired from active service and but in the Reserve fleet in case needed, like the connie's and Excels before her.
Re-watched the scene again, I stand corrected. That was not a Galaxy.
The part where the sisters are out gunned but get a lucky hit in is reminiscent of another bird of prey taking out the original Enterprise even though he was out gunned. But they stretched a bit.
But I ask this. Even with that shot available to them. How did the Enterprise with all her firepower NOT swat that ship even with it's shields up? They had to trigger the cloak to get her as defenseless then shoot her.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
B'Rel scale but E-D went down for plot reasons only.
everything that happened in the movies/shows was for plot reasons only...however it still happened
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True thus you see the Venture refit and the launch of the Sovereign class. Though powerful the Galaxy class clearly had flaws. Luckily the ship can be modified to reduce or be rid of such flaws.
the sovereign launching had nothing to do with the galaxy class. they are in completely different weight classes, and dont compete at all on paper, only in the minds of the fans. speaking of which the there is no 'venture refit', thats also fanon.
the galaxy class was built so that 70% of its interior was modular, so it could be setup as a huge science and exploration vassal, or a battleship. this was part of its capability since day 1, when the dominion war happens galaxies were ether left mostly empty or outfitted like the enterrpise D was in yesterdays enterprise.
The only counter argument to Galaxy/Sovereign comparison comes from First Contact.
LAFORGE: Captain, we've been out in space for nearly a year now. We're ready! The Enterprise-E is the most advanced starship in the fleet. We should be on the front line.
I suspect with borg and dominion wars the Sovereign is an up rated Galaxy with all the fat trimmed off. Meaning no longer carrying families like a flying military base. Crew members only to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. If not then the borg on the Enterprise E were alot more horrific as parents might be shooting at their own children.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Amazing how fast things go south once Plot armor abandons you.
As stated about 8 pages back, Advanced =/= Powerful. For example, the Sovereign's main phaser array is much smaller than on the Galaxy, and seems to be set for "quick-fire" mode in all of the starship's engagements. Both of these factors results in lower destructive potential compared to the Galaxy-class.
True, the Sovereign-class is no space hotel or flying town (although it is still well suited to diplomatic functions), but that doesn't translate into a stronger, more powerful, deadlier vessel. It seems that the only advantages of the Sovereign is the increase in the number of torpedo launchers, stronger shielding systems (at least in First Contact), better maneuverability/warp speed, and shuttles that can deploy Jeeps.
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actually yes it did. Galaxy while a powerhouse was designed with peaceful exploration in mind first. Sovereign is the exact opposite as the borg and the dominion shattered that concept.
And no Ventuie Refit, explain the additional phaser strips on the venture. There is absolutely nothing that disproves the admitted theory that it is an attempt to remove some Galaxy Flaws.
the soverign has about half the volume of a galaxy, yet its got 80% of the crew compliment apparently, why is it so crew dense? and when was it ever said theres no civilains on it? so much is assumed.
advanced will never directly translate to most powerful, ever.
it was designed to be a blank slate, set up to be an exploration vessel or battleship, first, actually.
they damaged the 4 foot model when they tried to take the galaxy X TRIBBLE off it, so the pylons arrays were put back on, backward, for filming. then they switched to cgi, and those arrays were never seen again. they were worthless anyway, there was no fireing arc for them to cover that wasn't already covered by arrays already on the secondary hull, or the main saucer arrays itself
Sorry Sovereign is opposite mirror of Galaxy, both multi mission but Gal is explorer leaning, Sovereign tacical. As for DW Gals and Venture Gal Venture was the last fully functioning Galaxy built before war. The DWs are only battle capable and rushed out so they cut time by not putting the Venture strips on just so they get it out there. after war we can assume they were sent back and completed and Given Venture refit. Venture can be the step between standard gal and GalX there is merit for the strips but time is a factor. Hence also why we see Lakota refitted. A more effective fleet in less time but the war was forced sooner than they were ready.
with an array you can, thats how they work. if the huge array on the galaxy class couldn't channel 200 emmiters worth of energy into a single shot, we woud not see the moving glow effect use the entire array in the show. material limits, heat dissipation, its all clearly within tolerance with regards to the part of the array that actually fires
the sovereign cant fulfill the same tactical role as a galaxy, even if it is pound for pound more tactical. the galaxy simply has twice as many pounds, more then twice the emitters in its big arrays, and unmatched per torp launcher burst potential, even if its in a full explorer setup. if the saucer wasn't the size that it is, it wouldn't be able to mount such large and powerful arrays. even if a galaxy was not designed to be ether/or battleship/explorer, its design would proboly have changed very little, there was no visible exterior difference in yesterdays enterprise.
there were shots of the fleet with 4-10 galaxy in a single fleet, and there was tons of fleet mentioned off screen. by the mid 2370s, the galaxy class was most likely not that rare, they proboly started building as many as they could by wolf 359 by the latest. leaving the interior 3/4 empty, so it was basically just a huge flying armored phaser and torpedo platform must have proved pretty cost effective for them to do it. when they went to retake deep space 9, all the galaxy class steamrollered through the dominion lines disabling or destroying everything in their path. they even got through faster then the defiant did, and began flanking the dominion forces, before the klingons even got there. couldn't help but notice that galaxy going the wrong way, at 9:46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWi-pJLO2m4&feature=related
you can say most of the bulk is wasted space, supported by them leaving them mostly empty during the most brutal war in the federations history. still, it needed to be that size so it could bring the superior firepower from the arrays only they are large enough to have and the damage soak only a ship that large can have, to any engagement it finds itself in. the sovereign trimming the fat also trimmed potential phaser firepower in half. the circumference of a sovereigns saucer rim is about the same as a galaxy's dorsal array. they are in totally different size and firepower weight classes.
https://imageshack.us/a/img143/8792/3axissizecompare.jpg
I can see what your saying and i'm not going to say that the gal is not powerful. but Star fleet would shelf the gal for two main reasons reasons.
cant use the new integrated gel packs on the ship systems, stuck with isolinear chips.
no slipstream drive, the bulk that gives her the phaser strength would tear her apart if she even tried.
at best in this time period she would be given patrol work with in the federation borders.
the sovereign on the other hand was designed as the flagship of the fleet, most advanced but not necessarily the strongest. she was meant to give the commands not to be in a hot battle. as well the sovereign was designed to incorporate the gel packs. and with a little tweaking to structural design could use slipstream drive.
personally i like the design better of the sovereign, but don't get me wrong i would love to see a up dated and upgraded version of the gal, just put her were shes meant to be.
PS. there's a reason why all federation ships are designed similar to the intrepid and sovereign classes, and that is slipstream drive. voyager could barely get it working and, that's a slim ship. if you want proff look at the NX-01-A
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints-depot-restricted/sciencefiction/star-trek-u-f-p-and-starfleet-galaxy-exploration/dauntless_non_federation_nx_01a-32020.jpg
Fed: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=780321
RR: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12150781#post12150781
KDF: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=784941
all ships in sto can use slipstream because thats how the game is designed. yes the nx-01-a is a alien ship but its the first one that can use slipstream, and look at the borg they assimilated slipstream but still use trans wrap instead, ship design has to do with slipstream capable or not.
and for the gel packs a ship would have to be totally redesigned to use them, look how much trouble they would have had on voyager if they had to go back to the chips, most of it's primary systems would not have worked.
just because it works in game does not mean it works in show.
Fed: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=780321
RR: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12150781#post12150781
KDF: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=784941
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