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Atrox Carrier needs a frigate pet now more than ever!
kikanass
Member Posts: 45 Arc User
I know this has been mentioned before, but as the title states: The Atrox Carrier needs a frigate pet now more than ever! (Afterall every other true carrier and even the latest hybrids with a single Hangar have Frigate pets). For the longest time the atrox has suffered 2 glaring disadvantages compared to other true carriers IMO.
First off is the lack of a strong frigate pet which IMO is about to become even more of a disadvantage with the new carrier changes coming. I'm speaking most specifically about the ranking of pets. As it stands most fighter style pets die when you breath on them wrong which will only hurt the Atrox or any carrier/hangar equipped ship that prefers or has no choice but to use fighters over Frigates as the chances of them surviving long enough to rank up especially to rank 5 isn't very good, while frigate pets with much higher hulls and shields have a far greater chance of ranking up and thus increasing there power while the fighters will likely never reach peak power atleast not many of them if any. This will result in any carrier or hanger equipped ship that uses fighters to be at a disadvantage compared to any carrier or hangar equipped ship that has frigate pets available to them IMO.
Just to throw in a quick example lets first look at the hulls of fighters vs Frigate pets.
Fighters = 2777 Hull
Frigate pets = 31013
Now Lets assume even 1 ship on a team or 1 NPC ship uses a Fire At will ability. Pretty much all fighters get wiped out (using recall command will not save them as it apparently takes 15 seconds for them to dock) and lets assume you have a very low hangar cooldown (Mine is 15sec). So you can spawn a new set of fighters immediately but 30 seconds later they can use BFAW again (if not quicker if running 2 copies or get cooldown reduction via aux2bat or duty officer) so again all fighters die not one of them ever reaching even rank 1 (I'm assuming they rank up once per min considering there's 5 ranks and it takes 5min to reach rank 5). Frigate pets on the other hand can survive even multiple BFAW's depending on how many other targets are around and thus will in all likelihood reach atleast rank 1 at which point they receive the designed boost and heal so that they can continue on and with luck rank up even further, but fighters will rarely if ever see rank 1 especially in pvp as they die too quickly and even if they do survive to rank 1 a small percentage based hull heal and percentage based boost to hull is not going to be much help in them reaching the next rank. So it would appear that although any carrier can become increasingly more powerful by it's pets staying alive longer this change will clearly be a much larger benefit to carriers and hangar equipped ships that run Frigate pets (which the Atrox does not have resulting in a larger disadvantage compared to other true carriers)as they will have the highest chance of surviving to rank up.
Secondly The Atrox also suffers from a lack of a 5th Bridge officer slot. I'm not referring to abilities though as it has the same number of abilities as any ship with 5 bridge officers, but rather I'm referring to the lack of a 5th bridge officer causing the Atrox to not be able to receive the passive benefits of 5 Bridge officers as every other ship can.
In closing I feel the Atrox (especially being a c-store ship) is in desperate need of some changes to eliminate these disadvantages or give it something unique (not referring to unique pets as all true carriers have them anyway) to compensate for this lack of a frigate pet and lack of a 5th bridge officer passive. Some may agree and some may disagree with my opinion and views on this, but please keep the negativity to a minimum.
First off is the lack of a strong frigate pet which IMO is about to become even more of a disadvantage with the new carrier changes coming. I'm speaking most specifically about the ranking of pets. As it stands most fighter style pets die when you breath on them wrong which will only hurt the Atrox or any carrier/hangar equipped ship that prefers or has no choice but to use fighters over Frigates as the chances of them surviving long enough to rank up especially to rank 5 isn't very good, while frigate pets with much higher hulls and shields have a far greater chance of ranking up and thus increasing there power while the fighters will likely never reach peak power atleast not many of them if any. This will result in any carrier or hanger equipped ship that uses fighters to be at a disadvantage compared to any carrier or hangar equipped ship that has frigate pets available to them IMO.
Just to throw in a quick example lets first look at the hulls of fighters vs Frigate pets.
Fighters = 2777 Hull
Frigate pets = 31013
Now Lets assume even 1 ship on a team or 1 NPC ship uses a Fire At will ability. Pretty much all fighters get wiped out (using recall command will not save them as it apparently takes 15 seconds for them to dock) and lets assume you have a very low hangar cooldown (Mine is 15sec). So you can spawn a new set of fighters immediately but 30 seconds later they can use BFAW again (if not quicker if running 2 copies or get cooldown reduction via aux2bat or duty officer) so again all fighters die not one of them ever reaching even rank 1 (I'm assuming they rank up once per min considering there's 5 ranks and it takes 5min to reach rank 5). Frigate pets on the other hand can survive even multiple BFAW's depending on how many other targets are around and thus will in all likelihood reach atleast rank 1 at which point they receive the designed boost and heal so that they can continue on and with luck rank up even further, but fighters will rarely if ever see rank 1 especially in pvp as they die too quickly and even if they do survive to rank 1 a small percentage based hull heal and percentage based boost to hull is not going to be much help in them reaching the next rank. So it would appear that although any carrier can become increasingly more powerful by it's pets staying alive longer this change will clearly be a much larger benefit to carriers and hangar equipped ships that run Frigate pets (which the Atrox does not have resulting in a larger disadvantage compared to other true carriers)as they will have the highest chance of surviving to rank up.
Secondly The Atrox also suffers from a lack of a 5th Bridge officer slot. I'm not referring to abilities though as it has the same number of abilities as any ship with 5 bridge officers, but rather I'm referring to the lack of a 5th bridge officer causing the Atrox to not be able to receive the passive benefits of 5 Bridge officers as every other ship can.
In closing I feel the Atrox (especially being a c-store ship) is in desperate need of some changes to eliminate these disadvantages or give it something unique (not referring to unique pets as all true carriers have them anyway) to compensate for this lack of a frigate pet and lack of a 5th bridge officer passive. Some may agree and some may disagree with my opinion and views on this, but please keep the negativity to a minimum.
Post edited by kikanass on
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Comments
Yes the Atrox needs a Catian stlyed Frigate. Every other Carrier has both a Fighter and a Frigate I don't see why the Atrox does not.
If you want a Carrier that has 5 BOFFs get a Recluse or Jem Hadar. The Recluse even comes with Frigates.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
But a Caitian Frigate Pets would be very cool.
As for the need of a frigate class pet, 150% agree. Very strange this oversight was made...
I was totally surprise that they didn't add Frigates in the first place. Since the Atrox is not your Traditional Fed ship, you could make an Orignal Caitian Frigates, but if the devs don't want to invest much, there are alrdy Fed Ships that are small enough, It may be a compermise for the demand of T5 Mirandas, NXs, and Connies
Imagine an Atrox Launching Connies, now that's Awesome
I prefer to have 2 LtCmdr Boffs, instead having one LtCmdr, 1 Lt and 1 Ensign ...
Which other Carrier has 2 LtCmdr Boffs??
Here's an idea, though. If we go by the assumption that Cryptic would rather debut a new ship than beef up an old one, and we assume that the Feds will get another true carrier someday, you know what kind of existing ship would make a great frigate pet, especially for a hypothetical, "Starfleet" style carrier?
An Aquarius destroyer.
It's true! The Oddy already uses it as a pet, and they're among the smallest top tier ships on the Fed side, they'd fit great as the choice of frigate pet for a future carrier.
First off I'm not complaining I'm simply stating my opinions based on testing and observations. Secondly I'm not quite sure I understand the meaning of your statement as I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the boosts that fighters or frigates get in fact if I understand your statement correctly I agree with you fighters do get a more significant boost to them compared to frigates at approximately 25% boost for fighters vs 6.67% for frigates from there base hps to what they end up with at rank 5.
What I'm trying to point out is that this new system is going to cause a disadvantage for any carrier or hangar equipped ship that doesn't have a frigate pet available to it and is forced to use fighter type craft as fighters do not have sufficiant hitpoints to have any kind of survivability to make fair use of this new rank system.
To further Prove my point I transferred my recluse with tholian mesh Weaver's (Frigate class pets), My scimitar with Advanced romulan drones (Frigate class pets), and my Atrox carrier with Advanced stalkers and Advanced perigrines (Both Fighter class pets) as there are no frigates for the atrox. I went into tholian red alerts in Tau Dewa as the tholians use fire at will and on both my scimitar and Recluse within 5min I had 4 fully ranked up pets with no pet deaths, but The Atrox it took over 45min of killing everything I could find and using extremely tedious pet management constantly recalling my fighters and waiting til after the tholians used there fire at will ect... to manage to get just 2 pets out of 12 ranked up to lvl 5 because they would die constantly. Most of the fighters never made it past rank 2 or 3 and that was against NPC's. The problem will be much worse against players and the fighters will likely never reach rank 1. Based on this it's quite clear that any carrier or hangar equipped ship without access to a frigate type pet is going to be getting the shaft so to speak and be at a disadvantage compared to carriers and hangar equipped ships that do have a frigate class pet available.
So Based on all this I'm simply stating my opinion that the Atrox like all other true carriers needs a frigate class pet now more than ever. Granted other hybrid hangar equipped ships without access to frigate class pets will still be at a disadvantage under this new system, but not by as much as the Atrox as carriers by design are meant for the pets to be a significant portion of it's dps and the lack of a frigate class pet will severely hurt the Atrox's ability to compete against other true carriers that do have Frigate class pets.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Not that you will use it much since it got nerfed to useless.
Anyway, here's what i think:
1) Atrox does not need an extra BoFF station, because it have to be parallel to atrox. I would not mind if they make it similar to Mirror Vo'quv in BoFF layout.
2) it does need a frigate. If they don't want aquarius they can always use the Marquis Raider (ala Val Jean). I have a hangar of elite scorpion and they die fast even in just normal fleet actions, while my Frigates just keep on going.
3) Fed can use a more eng-oriented Kar'fi analogue. For Boff they give it 2 lt-eng.
To fellow KDF: Since we are not goign to be able to persuade Fed to switch to the more gameplay oriented side, may as well as make them more useful - do you know how many times we fail an eSTF because the Atrox cannot kill the probes fast enough?!
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Disagree with point 2. They should be Catian ships, not a civilian ship converted to military use. (Yes I'd like a Fighter to replace Peregrines with.)
Frigates are locked to their ships, you can't put BoPs inside a Kar'fi, only a Vo'quv. So since the thread is to get Atrox Frigates they will only work in the Atrox so should be Catian.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
yes, it does need something stronger than just the fighters.
please be kind.
and yes I'm pretty sure its intentionally, given the newly released Romulan Drone Ship, and still no Frigate class...
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Hangar_-_Elite_Romulan_Drone_Ship
Also, I agree with the wish listing of more materials. Bridges I don't care so much about, mostly because I don't spend an enormous amount of time on mine, but materials would be very nice.
Yeah... come think of it, for al;l the accusation of Cryptic favoring to fed, the carrier is the one thing that goes against it.
Here's my understanding:
-Earlier on, Only KDF have carrier. For free too.
-Fed call out, askign for carrier
-Cryptic responded by giving a extremely science heavy carrier (so less APB which is the main buff for carriers) that have no frigates and no customization options. Also DOES NOT look like a fed ship (more liek andromeda)
Fix the fighter AI.
Have them avoid or flee from ships about to explode at "Emergency speeds" to prevent the pilots from seemingly committing suicide. That should have been a duh thing from the get go.
Leave it at 4 BOffs. As others have stated the dual Lt.Cmdr slots is a unique and powerful benefit from "only" having 4.
Give it a 10 console slot, giving it a third tac console for a 3/3/4 spread.
Or even possibly a fourth engineering console to further increase its ability to layer its defenses as it is a Carrier and not an attack ship, this would seem to better fit its implementation within Star Fleet vs the third tac console.
Increase its acceleration and decrease its stopping time to and from full impulse.
Decrease fighter docking times significantly.
They do have massive entry and exit hanger doors for a reason after all.
Decrease the exp required for fighters ranking up to rank 3. So that they can better take care of themselves and serve in the role they were intended to serve. After that, increase slightly the amount required for rank 4 and have a rank 5 fighter be considered a real accomplishment. Granting special bonuses for having reached that.
You don't need a Frigate.
If you should continue to ask for something, ask for something with its own unique flavor instead of QQing and playing the "Well I should have that too!" card.
Agreed with every wordyou said,these changes are a must.
Its not just QQ,ive played every full carrier except the jem bugnought in pve and trust me,the atrox is MUCH more at a disadvantage.Even my voquv,which i run with 1 BOP and 1 slaver and with 2x Tetryon turret,1 cutting beam,1 tetryon dual beam bank,1 tricobalt and 1 tetryon single cannon( :eek: ) out performs the atrox with all beam array(not in terms of dps but in terms of how easily i can kill the target)
Flagship - N.C.C.-99635-A U.S.S. Asterion
I support playable Typhoon class!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
No, the Atrox does NOT, I repeat, does NOT need a 5th bridge officer slot. As it stands right now, it has 2 Lieutenant-Commander BoFFs, allowing for higher-ranked powers (and greater ability diversity). Doing what you all suggest and adding a 5th would reduce it to have a Lieutenant-Commander, a Lieutenant, and an Ensign; this would mitigate one of the Atrox Carriers biggest advantages, and is *no offense* a stupid change to purpose.
Secondly...YES, the Atrox DOES need frigates. Its the only carrier that doesn't have them. There are plenty of Frigate options out there; personally, I prefer the options of Caitain, Aqarius, Oberth, and Miranda hangers over other suggestions, but one way or another, it needs hangers. This is an oversight that has lost Cryptic a decent amount of money on the Atrox, as it gives the Atrox a disadvantage over other carriers.
Thirdly, in response to the guy a few posts above...yep, your right. The Atrox needs a bridge and a new skin. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Atrox skin, it looks sleek and cool. But its the ONLY option the ship has! It needs at *least* one more option (the Kar'Fi, for example, has two unique skins to choose form) to make it at least a little beyond customization beyond paint and set visuals. And even more so, I agree that it needs its own bridge, as does the D'Kyr; these are the only two non-Starfleet playable Fed ships that don't have a unique bridge to choose from.
Instead of taking another factions uniqueness lets try and add/create some of our own.
See if we can't get others to be asking for what we have rather than the other way around eh
- Increase the range of all mounted Atrox weapons to 15-18km. Call it fire support and first strike capability for the carrier to help soften the target up for the smaller fighters. This would also open up a bombardment support option for the Atrox.
- Possibility of a third fighter squadron for the Atrox to help offset the combat output between the various faction carriers.
- Have the option to use Interceptors in flights of 2 or 3 over fighters.
They'd be slower, but pack heavier weaponry and have greater shield and hull life, with their own unique abilities. Again, unique to the Atrox. Would reduce the range of the Atrox's weapons by 3km when equipped in either hanger slot.
- Short range tractor beams that auto target enemy fighter craft, trapping and disabling them for the duration of the tractor beam, and for a brief period of time after release.
Number of beams active at once reliant upon current Aux power.
I would love for a future Starfleet Carrier to have aquarious type frigates, size wise its the best suggestion i can see, and it packs up nicely so belivable space wise
At the very least how about a new hull material or two.
I think every alternately sourced ship should have it's own bridge.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I've never used any other carrier, so didn't realise that my Atrox was at such a disadvantage! :eek:
But I have to WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree both Atrox and D'Kyr MUST get some decent ship-appropriate interiors! Even the Federation-built Odyssey ships have their own (rather beautiful) custom bridges, and they could easily have gotten away with just using the standard set of Federation bridges! And it costs the same as the Atrox. Even the Lockbox unique ships all seem to have unique interiors. If they're going to make a non-federation ship, would it be too much to ask that they provide non-federation interiors to match?