the only reason the excelsior is still a viable design is because it has a huge warp core for its hull size, one that runs down through the neck of the ship like the constitution class before it; as opposed to a warp core entirely contained in the secondary hull like almost every later starfleet design, (ambassador, galaxy, intrepid) giving star fleet a ship hull design with a large power supply for its size. (Smaller than an Oddesy's saucer section)
further, the excelsior class hull was designed with efficient trans-warp field geometry in mind, making it a very viable hull design now that starfleet has working trans-warp drives
the Excelsior's technical designation would probably be rapid response pocket cruiser at this point. its tiny for a starfleet cruiser nowadays, but it has a big enough power plant to use Oddesy level weapons. and you can have all (well, most) of them in any sector of known space as fast as you can hail them.
all that being said, canonically, an excelsior in a protracted fight with a galaxy class starship of equal tech,should loose, every time.
game wise, i think an easy fix for the galaxy is to give it beam overload 3 on a 30 second timer as a built in ship ability, along with a 1.2 shield modifier.
hes under the same mistaken impression that caused the tier 5 excelsior in the first place, that just because an excelsior can match a defiant, that its top tier. well, the defiant would have to be actually be top tier too for that to be true, its lower mid tier, a tiny corvette thats got the firepower per wight of a bird of prey, with a bit more durability. the lakota wouldn't last 30 seconds against even an akira, much less a nebula, sovereign or galaxy. would lose to an intrepid, steamrunner norway and maybe even a saber too.
I will back you all on this, yes the Gal needs some HEAVY work done on her, but more so because I wanna see this thread hit the magical 2000 mark.....maybe ryptic/pwe will actually listen to the masses at that point. I run the Excel retro on two of my toons...would I run the Gal instead if it had the same specs....HELL YES!!!! I love the Excel, but the power she has would seem more.....appropriate on the Galaxy. Just my 2 cents worth.:cool:
Another few points to note. The Lakota, upgraded Excelsior class, What exactly did she manage to do, Fight the Defiant to a standstill, The Defiant a true warship was shown to blow up Bird of Preys, Jem bugships for fun, knocked out a single galor with a quantum torpedo, Which a Nebula and Galaxy have been shown to one shot disable a galor, but never really handled anything outside her weight class. Pointing to Way of the warrior and tucking tail and legging it when a Vor'cha class starship decloaks and says bring it on.
The Excelsior was a very good ship up until post TNG era, not denying that you don't mass produce a ship without her being capable, but TNG showed her as a workhouse, a ferry to diplomats and Admirals, (Personal flagship of many Admirals, maybe it was because Galaxy's, Nebula and Ambassadors were in shorter number) Appeared to perform terrible during the Dominion War cannon fodder poss due to the large numbers fielded in comparison to other classes.
Obvious to me the Excelsior was behind both the Nebula and Galaxy during TNG run in the way it was used.
The Defiant a very capable escort, very powerful for a ship of her size but as we have seen time and again in ST tonnage matters, and anything way outside her tonnage she was a fly to swat. All you really see her engage in the Dominion war are Bug Ships or Breen Attack ships, No Galors, Dominion Cruisers or Battleships with any success against these. And the one attempt, the Valiant, she got blow to hell but i think any Fed ship solo would have bit the dust against that beast.
Cryptic def have the ships all mixed up in terms of their power and placing, going by the dominion war the bug ship should be the most squishy, weakest escort in game, and defiant the most powerful.
Dominiion Dreadnought the most powerful cruiser and the Galor/Excelsior the weakest going by the Dominion War for tier 5 ships, the only real time we have seen multiple classes of ships in a major engagement.
Thinking about it, "escorts" (using the in-game term here) shouldn't even feature as many weapon slots as cruisers. Cruisers should clearly have most weapon slots while the defiant for example should feature 2 or 3 fore weapon slots and the game be balanced accordingly. But I don't want to beat that horse again
But another suggestion which might even the "damage issue" of Galaxy captains: What about simply moving Beam Overload to engineer boffs? I mean, it is after all an "overload", a skill that diverts power instead of a tactic/attack pattern. This way eng heavy cruisers could get a bit of bite packing BO3 on their high rank boffs. It's a skill perfectly matched for EPS transfers and Nadion Inversion to excel on large cruisers.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I would like to think that the one thing most of us can agree upon is that SOMETHING needs to be done with one of the most iconic ships from the I.P. I rarely see them about anymore.
How about this compromise. Give the Galaxy-R a free BO3 with a cool down time of 2 minutes and it isn't linked to the tactical BoFF abilities. You could essential fire a BoFF BO in chain with the ships natural BO3 (I would pop a weapon battery first though). Heck, it would probably be more effective than the Galaxy-X.
How about this compromise. Give the Galaxy-R a free BO3 with a cool down time of 2 minutes and it isn't linked to the tactical BoFF abilities. You could essential fire a BoFF BO in chain with the ships natural BO3 (I would pop a weapon battery first though). Heck, it would probably be more effective than the Galaxy-X.
I think that idea is a start but I think the main area which the Galaxy falls over in is its Engineering Heavy Boff layout, I would suggest instead of more tactical slots. I believe more science would benefit it immensely, taking advantage of its powerful canon tractor beam emitters and research capabilities.
I think that idea is a start but I think the main area which the Galaxy falls over in is its Engineering Heavy Boff layout, I would suggest instead of more tactical slots. I believe more science would benefit it immensely, taking advantage of its powerful canon tractor beam emitters and research capabilities.
No probs' bro'/sis' (whichever you may full under)
Look I own the Gal-X and Gal-R. I would like to see it be more effective. I have long argued that Engineering abilities need to be brought up to par. If Cryptic was to work on upping Engineer BoFF abilities game, the Galaxy-R would be in a great position. A little more hull wouldnt hurt either, probably smack down in between the Sovy' and the Ody'.
I agree, Engineering abilities are really sub-par compared to abilities such as Attack Pattern: Omega which some consider do way too much. Maybe having Attack Patterns which are more specialized towards Engineering and Science abilities. Like buff damage resistance and power regain, reducing power loss for Engineering and increasing Auxillary effectiveness for Science...
Something like that, since Attack Patterns are so useful and exclusive at the moment for tactical boff powers.
sorry to interrupt you fellows captains, but since we will soon going into 200 pages on this topic i would like for all of us galaxy fanboys to gather in prayer.
reread after me:
Our holy galaxy class starship, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done on STO as it is in cannon.
Give us this day our daily dilithium.
And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into locbox temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory for ever and EVA.
Amen.
and for those who beguining to loose faith remember this from the book of revelation of st dontdrunkimshoot
"Unto the Angel of the starbase of Ephesus write; these things saith He that holdeth the 'Seven Stars' in His right hand, who walketh in the midst of the 'Seven Golden tricorder'.
I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil; and thou hast tried them which say they are Apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars; and hast borne, and hast patience, and for My Name's Sake hast labored, and hast not fainted.
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou Hast Left Thy First Love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy tricorder out of his place, except thou repent.
But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the polaronist, which I also hate.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the SPIRIT saith unto the starbases: To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the replicator, which is in the midst of the holy galaxy class."
and also this one...
"And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the attack pattern Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the replicator of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his starship, and he shall be my captain. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with plasma fire and brimstone; which is the second respawn."
sorry to interrupt you fellows captains, but since we will soon going into 200 pages on this topic i would like for all of us galaxy fanboys to gather in prayer.
reread after me:
Our holy galaxy class starship, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done on STO as it is in cannon.
Give us this day our daily dilithium.
And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into locbox temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory for ever and EVA.
Amen.
and for those who beguining to loose faith remember this from the book of revelation of st dontdrunkimshoot
"Unto the Angel of the starbase of Ephesus write; these things saith He that holdeth the 'Seven Stars' in His right hand, who walketh in the midst of the 'Seven Golden tricorder'.
I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil; and thou hast tried them which say they are Apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars; and hast borne, and hast patience, and for My Name's Sake hast labored, and hast not fainted.
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou Hast Left Thy First Love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy tricorder out of his place, except thou repent.
But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the polaronist, which I also hate.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the SPIRIT saith unto the starbases: To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the replicator, which is in the midst of the holy galaxy class."
and also this one...
"And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the attack pattern Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the replicator of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his starship, and he shall be my captain. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with plasma fire and brimstone; which is the second respawn."
You're right Polaronbeam. We don't call them out.
One we don't really feel like defending someone that seems to be more likely watching as we are fed alive to the wolves with no thought of intervening.
Two we don't care to focus on it. It added nothing, and anyone that reads it will know it was out of line, or will read it and keep their opinions on it to themselves.
Mostly, we just don't focus on them.
The focus of this thread is the problems of the Galaxy class and its epitomization of the problems faced by the Cruisers in general.
I really like the suggestion that Beam Overload be an Engineering skill.
Hadn't thought of that before. As a counter to that, it is still a tactical ability. So it makes sense there too.
Mostly, we just don't focus on them. The focus of this thread is the problems of the Galaxy class and its epitomization of the problems faced by the Cruisers in general.
I really like the suggestion that Beam Overload be an Engineering skill.
Hadn't thought of that before. As a counter to that, it is still a tactical ability. So it makes sense there too.
I agree completely. This thread is for this reason:
and in addition to veraticus' definition, it also includes the discussion around this ship, Cryptic's effect on it, and cruiser mechanics when related to this vessel. Nothing to do with these:
I don't see anything about the Galaxy-class starship in these posts at all; and if there is any mention to the Galaxy, it's a rude, derogatory, and flawed nickname.
(Side note: It's actually quite interesting. Note that some of the many, many posts this user has posted contain descriptive words that can also, if not better, describe him/herself, such as "ignoring" posts, whining, hypocrisy, "end run", etc. And still, this user refuses to contribute meaningfully to the thread.)
Also, yes, having Beam Overload as an Engineering ability would indeed be interesting. Although, it might cause certain problems when an Engineering-heavy escort makes use of said power.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Instead of beam overload, how about all Bo slots be universal. the KDF has an entire line of ships with universal BO slots. I So why not make the Galaxy R a all universal. it be closer to cannon and give the ship alot more flexiblity and be worth her price. and I think it would be an easy job that will take less then a day.
To Polareanbeam. SHUT UP AGAIN. You say nothing contructive and attack people who see a problem and like it fixed. If you comment again and have nothing constructive to say i will report you. sO SAY SOMETHING CONTRUCTIVE TO THE THREAD OR JUST...SHUT UP!
Instead of beam overload, how about all Bo slots be universal. the KDF has an entire line of ships with universal BO slots. I So why not make the Galaxy R a all universal. it be closer to cannon and give the ship alot more flexiblity and be worth her price. and I think it would be an easy job that will take less then a day.
To Polareanbeam. SHUT UP AGAIN. You say nothing contructive and attack people who see a problem and like it fixed. If you comment again and have nothing constructive to say i will report you. sO SAY SOMETHING CONTRUCTIVE TO THE THREAD OR JUST...SHUT UP!
if you don't feed the troll, perhaps it will crawl back to the youtube comments section that spawned it.
BO like an eng hability i already star to listen tactical captains scream, what if eng get other ablity like:
Torpedo Heavy lock = THL1 = incresed ACC and CRTH of next torpedo
Eng Captain with training in "Starship Projectile Weapons" lvl 6 can train that hability THL3
synchronized Torpedo launchers = STL1 = Fire 2 torpedos from all launchers at the same time
Eng Captain with training in "Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization" can train STL3
of course this will made CD any other tactical torpedo hability
i know lot of ppl will say torpedos are not the most effective weapon but with some good hability that can be changed and the cruciers are the most big ship and they can carry a haevy load of torpedos and to me is logical they can be like bombers this have may need a bit more tuning i dont want a god ship, and this can hlp all cruciers in game.
sry for any miss speling
I would like to hear any feedback pro or against but in a constructive spirit
I agree, Engineering abilities are really sub-par compared to abilities such as Attack Pattern: Omega which some consider do way too much. Maybe having Attack Patterns which are more specialized towards Engineering and Science abilities. Like buff damage resistance and power regain, reducing power loss for Engineering and increasing Auxillary effectiveness for Science...
Something like that, since Attack Patterns are so useful and exclusive at the moment for tactical boff powers.
I see what you are talking about, what I was thinking was on the lines of maybe the aux power/emergency 2 abilities that were Lt. Commander and higher could also temporarily increase the energy caps or decrease power drains (such as when BO is used during a EP2W buff). Maybe make Aceton Beam and other high level abilities more dangerous/offensive.
Instead of beam overload, how about all Bo slots be universal. the KDF has an entire line of ships with universal BO slots. I So why not make the Galaxy R a all universal. it be closer to cannon and give the ship alot more flexiblity and be worth her price. and I think it would be an easy job that will take less then a day.
There is really not much of a need for an all universal Fed ship, there are so many combinations of BoFF stations with our vessels that there probably already a ship that has the layout someone wants. Case in point, many Galaxy-changer's want a layout like the Ambassador, Sovy or Excelsior, to which they are rebuffed , use an Ambassador, Sovy or Excelsior.
Working on engineering BoFF abilities to make them useful (as I state in another post today) can make engineering leaning ships like the Galaxy unique and effective.
To Polareanbeam. SHUT UP AGAIN. You say nothing contructive and attack people who see a problem and like it fixed. If you comment again and have nothing constructive to say i will report you. sO SAY SOMETHING CONTRUCTIVE TO THE THREAD OR JUST...SHUT UP!
That is certainly the wrong approach to counter someone and will probably get you censored.
There is really not much of a need for an all universal Fed ship, there are so many combinations of BoFF stations with our vessels that there probably already a ship that has the layout someone wants. Case in point, many Galaxy-changer's want a layout like the Ambassador, Sovy or Excelsior, to which they are rebuffed , use an Ambassador, Sovy or Excelsior.
Working on engineering BoFF abilities to make them useful (as I state in another post today) can make engineering leaning ships like the Galaxy unique and effective.
That is certainly the wrong approach to counter someone and will probably get you censored.
I don't want another copy of those ships, this will make the gal more unique and adaptable to suit anyone's needs.
And in regaurds to beam, if I'm censored for that they they are really messed up if they let him get away with what he says.
I see what you are talking about, what I was thinking was on the lines of maybe the aux power/emergency 2 abilities that were Lt. Commander and higher could also temporarily increase the energy caps or decrease power drains (such as when BO is used during a EP2W buff). Maybe make Aceton Beam and other high level abilities more dangerous/offensive.
Well we could start by asking to have DEM actually work as it was originally intended?
I do like the idea of Aceton Beam working on more than just a PvE target as a debuff.
Reduce the cooldown to a minute thirty and have it inflict 100 damage over 15 seconds.
Same amount of damage over the length of the debuff, just done faster increasing pressure.
Allow an innate reduced beam drain on DEM and instead of an increase in Shield Pen say while active it ignores x% of opponents shields.
Separate the various team abilities from each other so they no longer share a cooldown.
For example say you use Engineering Team, and then use Science Team.
Science Team will remove all Science debuffs but will not apply the Shield Regeneration.
Tactical Team would remove boarding parties, Tactical debuffs, and possibly even the redistribute effect but not increase your weapon and projectile training.
Engineering Team if used after another Team ability would repair disabled systems.
Additionally I think that all hull and shield heals should be a % heal.
So ships running with a higher shield amount or having more power into shields would have a more valuable shield heal. While ships with a higher hull amount would have a more valuable hull heal. And all ships would receive the same % of their health back.
Instead of beam overload, how about all Bo slots be universal. the KDF has an entire line of ships with universal BO slots. I So why not make the Galaxy R a all universal. it be closer to cannon and give the ship alot more flexiblity and be worth her price. and I think it would be an easy job that will take less then a day.
So the Galaxy R gets an all universal layout. The day that happens all Oddy and Vesta pilots including Assault Cruiser pilots will scream for the same thing since their ships are technically "newer" than the Galaxy line.
Giving ONE single cruiser class ship an all uni layout would then stack that ship above all other cruiser ships in the federation. Cryptic would lose money, and possibly any future customers for the Oddy, Vesta and Assault Cruiser. Also the reason a lot of the klink ships have uni layouts is simple... they dont have lot of ships to choose from compared to the federation. The Federation on the otherhand has a overabundance of ships, all with varying boff layouts.
There is really not much of a need for an all universal Fed ship, there are so many combinations of BoFF stations with our vessels that there probably already a ship that has the layout someone wants. Case in point, many Galaxy-changer's want a layout like the Ambassador, Sovy or Excelsior, to which they are rebuffed , use an Ambassador, Sovy or Excelsior.
I don't want another copy of those ships, this will make the gal more unique and adaptable to suit anyone's needs.
Suit "everyones needs" or do you mean just yours in an attempt to make the Galaxy line of ships the SINGLE most powerful and adaptable ship in the fed line which would far outclass the Oddy and Vesta lines of ships.
It's arguements like this which has made this thread nothing more than a running joke. There is ships out there (like the excelsior) which is engineer "heavy". Heck, the fleet excelsior only has ONE LtCom TAC station..just one tac station. Its an engineer heavy ship which a lot of folks are complaining about in this thread about the layout of the Galaxy being enginneer heavy which makes it "bad".
If thats the case, then why have i seen Galaxy class ships in PVP holding their own in a team environment? Why is it that I have also seen the Gal X Dread go up against THREE other players in a pvp and survive for a very long time?
If this ship is as "bad" as folks say it is, shouldn't the thing be space debris if one single little defiant alphas it?
The fact is the Galaxy line is not as bad as some folks in this thread is making out. Its one hell of a good tanking ship for a cruiser, its got a boff layout which would allow aux2batt cycling (like the excelsior).
Looking at the boff layout, all it needs is one thing... an LtCom Tac Officer so an ltcom attack pattern can be slotted in. The layouts of the Galaxy is VERY simmilar to the Excelsior and i have seen Galaxy Retrofits go toe to toe with "newer" large cruisers and hold its own just fine.
What most of you people want is a Galaxy line of ships which would outperform the oddy. The Galaxy can already go toe to toe with an Excelsior...and sometimes win (which is to be expected) and go toe to toe with the Sovereign...and sometimes win (which again is to be expected, but to give the Galaxy line universal boff slots would mean that technically it would outclass and outshine the federations most newest ship... The Oddessy.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
The fact is the Galaxy line is not as bad as some folks in this thread is making out. Its one hell of a good tanking ship for a cruiser, its got a boff layout which would allow aux2batt cycling (like the excelsior).
rubish. that is THE worst possible station setup a ship can have, due to the lack of variety of different system cooldowns you get at eng ENS. it prevents use of EPtS3, if you use that on the ship it will have have to leave one of its ens station empty. the ship also has the least cruiser damage output thanks to the low number of tac stations, tac consoles and turn rate. inferior tanking and healing ability due to system cooldonws tripping over each other of the possible skills you can slot. and lack of sci powers, with more eng abilities then are possibly useful. theres a good reason why the ody with a LTC and LT sci is the best cruiser healers, because thats were the best heals are. the galaxy is as far removed from that as is possible. its garbage in every category you can rate a cruiser in.
theres like 1 unique boff station setup left for a fed cruiser
COM eng
LTC tac
LT eng
LT sci
ENS sci
a mirror of the ambassador, and like the galor but without the universal LT, and 10 turn rate. thats what the galaxy should have, it even suits the canon ship well. and a 4/3/3 console setup, in fleet form
If thats the case, then why have i seen Galaxy class ships in PVP holding their own in a team environment? Why is it that I have also seen the Gal X Dread go up against THREE other players in a pvp and survive for a very long time?
If this ship is as "bad" as folks say it is, shouldn't the thing be space debris if one single little defiant alphas it?
That may not be the examples to prove the Galaxy's worth. The one redeeming quality the Galaxy has is its ridiculous durability if properly built.
As far as the Galaxy-X holding off 3 players... I think that the Galaxy-X pilot must've had at least some competency, but the bigger factor was that 3 opposing players were wasting their time on it!
Most players in PvP know that cruisers are the LAST thing you take out in a PvP match. They are incredibly tough to kill, the Galaxy and Galaxy-X more so than other cruisers. The only time you would go after a cruiser is if it was badly built and easy to pop (newer players that recently dinged 50), or if the rest of the team is actually harder to kill, such as romulan ships constantly cloaking and decloaking before doing an alpha and instantly speeding away with EM and/or EPtE. In such cases killing the cruisers may be easier/faster. I realize its an extreme case but it happened to me in a pug vs. pug match. It was pretty funny tbh.
rubish. that is THE worst possible station setup a ship can have, due to the lack of variety of different system cooldowns you get at eng ENS. it prevents use of EPtS3, if you use that on the ship it will have have to leave one of its ens station empty. the ship also has the least cruiser damage output thanks to the low number of tac stations, tac consoles and turn rate. inferior tanking and healing ability due to system cooldonws tripping over each other of the possible skills you can slot. and lack of sci powers, with more eng abilities then are possibly useful. theres a good reason why the ody with a LTC and LT sci is the best cruiser healers, because thats were the best heals are. the galaxy is as far removed from that as is possible. its garbage in every category you can rate a cruiser in.
theres like 1 unique boff station setup left for a fed cruiser
COM eng
LTC tac
LT eng
LT sci
ENS sci
a mirror of the ambassador, and like the galor but without the universal LT, and 10 turn rate. thats what the galaxy should have, it even suits the canon ship well. and a 4/3/3 console setup, in fleet form
You also have to remember that the Galaxy has not improved as much as the curve for other Fleet ships. I personally do not believe the Galaxy needs higher tactical powers in order to be effective. I think it needs 4 Engineering, 3 Science and 3 Tactical for optimal balance.
In my opinion, its strength should flow from its adaptability in combat allowing it to use both the power of Science and Engineering and making Engineering abilities stronger in order to give it viability as a "Command Cruiser". That was the role it served during the Dominion War and I would like to see it equipped with this;
This design has a good balance for ship, allowing access to additional science powers to support the undercutting of DPS compared to the flat out increase that the Sovereign and Excelsior.
I really like the suggestion that Beam Overload be an Engineering skill.
Hadn't thought of that before. As a counter to that, it is still a tactical ability. So it makes sense there too.
BO doesn't really make sense as a tactical ability. Fire at will/torpedo spreads/cannon volleys etc. are all basically tactics/manneuvres like attack patterns. A beam overload, however, is an *overload*, a energy transfer and would be better suited in the engineering slot in my opinion - this would also benefit other cruisers and engineers in general, since they can counter the power drain via their natural abilities.
This would give the Galaxy more flexibility slotting another damage enhancing ability in the high ranking engineers instead of a healing or buff. I think it would work quite well.
I actually don't call the ship garbage - to be honest, I can dish out decent damage in my R and tank very well in case tanking is actually a viable option. I don't want better turnrate, I don't want more tactical boffs, I'd really like a peak damage ability (BO to engineers or shipwise) to support team/individual damage though. I also don't think an all universal boff layout would make sense - remember nobody wants the Galaxy class to be the uber-ship making everything else obsolete.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
BO doesn't really make sense as a tactical ability. Fire at will/torpedo spreads/cannon volleys etc. are all basically tactics/manneuvres like attack patterns. A beam overload, however, is an *overload*, a energy transfer and would be better suited in the engineering slot in my opinion - this would also benefit other cruisers and engineers in general, since they can counter the power drain via their natural abilities.
This would give the Galaxy more flexibility slotting another damage enhancing ability in the high ranking engineers instead of a healing or buff. I think it would work quite well.
I actually don't call the ship garbage - to be honest, I can dish out decent damage in my R and tank very well in case tanking is actually a viable option. I don't want better turnrate, I don't want more tactical boffs, I'd really like a peak damage ability (BO to engineers or shipwise) to support team/individual damage though. I also don't think an all universal boff layout would make sense - remember nobody wants the Galaxy class to be the uber-ship making everything else obsolete.
Some might argue that giving Cruisers access to that kind of burst would upset the balance between Escorts and Cruisers. Cruisers in general could be running with two copies of BO, most likely R2 and 3. In addition to that, Tac Captains can pilot Cruisers and would be able to buff them with their own innate skills.
As a possible final nail in that argument I mention the Galaxy X.
A Tac Captain in a Galaxy X right now can one shot people. Add in the option of running with BO2/3 and a Phaser Lance. And why fly an Escort at all?
That said, I do agree with your assessment that BO does not really seem like a "tactical" ability.
I'd like to see the C-Store and Fleet variants of the Galaxy class get the "coveted" tenth console slot.
And a LtC Universal at the minimum.
It's arguements like this which has made this thread nothing more than a running joke. There is ships out there (like the excelsior) which is engineer "heavy". Heck, the fleet excelsior only has ONE LtCom TAC station..just one tac station. Its an engineer heavy ship which a lot of folks are complaining about in this thread about the layout of the Galaxy being enginneer heavy which makes it "bad".
Actually those kinds of suggestions are few and far inbetween.
It is others reading this thread that choose to single these so called ideas out rather than actually put forth the effort in constructively responding to other more common and viable ideas. It has always been easier to tear down than to build up.
It isn't just the LtC Tac slot on the Excelsior, that provides it with 3 viable and valuable abilities, that gives the FAHC its edge. It is the 60% weapon damage edge she can command over any Galaxy vessel with the sole exception being the Galaxy X where it only has a possible 30% edge.
Compare that to the EIGHT Engineering slots available on the Galaxy R and only 2 tac consoles.
That is enough to slot almost the entire line up of Engineering abilities.
There are 14 space abilities available for Engineering. You can slot over half of that in a Galaxy R and there is no reason to carry most of them as they either don't work, don't overlap, clash with your build or are just flat out garbage.
As for the consoles, the Engineering consoles that are of most value have diminishing returns for their value, Tactical consoles do not.
If thats the case, then why have i seen Galaxy class ships in PVP holding their own in a team environment? Why is it that I have also seen the Gal X Dread go up against THREE other players in a pvp and survive for a very long time?
If this ship is as "bad" as folks say it is, shouldn't the thing be space debris if one single little defiant alphas it?
Did they destroy any of the 3 ships attacking it?
I and others have seen Escorts take on 3 ships and have it end in a draw or sometimes even in the Escorts favor.
As for being space debris in a single pass. Seen it.
The fact is the Galaxy line is not as bad as some folks in this thread is making out. Its one hell of a good tanking ship for a cruiser, its got a boff layout which would allow aux2batt cycling (like the excelsior).
And there in lies the problem.
There is no need for tanking in this game. None.
And as also mentioned by dontdrunkimshoot, her layout is not conducive to tanking anyways as Engineering powers are constantly tripping over each other.
It isn't so much that she is a bad ship as it is that she is a misplaced ship with a botched layout.
Looking at the boff layout, all it needs is one thing... an LtCom Tac Officer so an ltcom attack pattern can be slotted in. The layouts of the Galaxy is VERY simmilar to the Excelsior and i have seen Galaxy Retrofits go toe to toe with "newer" large cruisers and hold its own just fine.
What most of you people want is a Galaxy line of ships which would outperform the oddy. The Galaxy can already go toe to toe with an Excelsior...and sometimes win (which is to be expected) and go toe to toe with the Sovereign...and sometimes win (which again is to be expected, but to give the Galaxy line universal boff slots would mean that technically it would outclass and outshine the federations most newest ship... The Oddessy.
As repeatedly mentioned in this thread. Even in the last couple of pages. We don't want her to be the best ship available. We agreed long ago that despite what we believe to be shown onscreen in games like this ships like the Sovereign will be more powerful. And we are ok with that. But there is nothing wrong with making the Galaxy line of Cruisers a viable option as well. It would even help the game to do so, not hurt it.
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further, the excelsior class hull was designed with efficient trans-warp field geometry in mind, making it a very viable hull design now that starfleet has working trans-warp drives
the Excelsior's technical designation would probably be rapid response pocket cruiser at this point. its tiny for a starfleet cruiser nowadays, but it has a big enough power plant to use Oddesy level weapons. and you can have all (well, most) of them in any sector of known space as fast as you can hail them.
all that being said, canonically, an excelsior in a protracted fight with a galaxy class starship of equal tech,should loose, every time.
game wise, i think an easy fix for the galaxy is to give it beam overload 3 on a 30 second timer as a built in ship ability, along with a 1.2 shield modifier.
The Excelsior was a very good ship up until post TNG era, not denying that you don't mass produce a ship without her being capable, but TNG showed her as a workhouse, a ferry to diplomats and Admirals, (Personal flagship of many Admirals, maybe it was because Galaxy's, Nebula and Ambassadors were in shorter number) Appeared to perform terrible during the Dominion War cannon fodder poss due to the large numbers fielded in comparison to other classes.
Obvious to me the Excelsior was behind both the Nebula and Galaxy during TNG run in the way it was used.
The Defiant a very capable escort, very powerful for a ship of her size but as we have seen time and again in ST tonnage matters, and anything way outside her tonnage she was a fly to swat. All you really see her engage in the Dominion war are Bug Ships or Breen Attack ships, No Galors, Dominion Cruisers or Battleships with any success against these. And the one attempt, the Valiant, she got blow to hell but i think any Fed ship solo would have bit the dust against that beast.
Cryptic def have the ships all mixed up in terms of their power and placing, going by the dominion war the bug ship should be the most squishy, weakest escort in game, and defiant the most powerful.
Dominiion Dreadnought the most powerful cruiser and the Galor/Excelsior the weakest going by the Dominion War for tier 5 ships, the only real time we have seen multiple classes of ships in a major engagement.
But another suggestion which might even the "damage issue" of Galaxy captains: What about simply moving Beam Overload to engineer boffs? I mean, it is after all an "overload", a skill that diverts power instead of a tactic/attack pattern. This way eng heavy cruisers could get a bit of bite packing BO3 on their high rank boffs. It's a skill perfectly matched for EPS transfers and Nadion Inversion to excel on large cruisers.
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I think that idea is a start but I think the main area which the Galaxy falls over in is its Engineering Heavy Boff layout, I would suggest instead of more tactical slots. I believe more science would benefit it immensely, taking advantage of its powerful canon tractor beam emitters and research capabilities.
See my next post on this thought.
I agree, Engineering abilities are really sub-par compared to abilities such as Attack Pattern: Omega which some consider do way too much. Maybe having Attack Patterns which are more specialized towards Engineering and Science abilities. Like buff damage resistance and power regain, reducing power loss for Engineering and increasing Auxillary effectiveness for Science...
Something like that, since Attack Patterns are so useful and exclusive at the moment for tactical boff powers.
reread after me:
Our holy galaxy class starship, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done on STO as it is in cannon.
Give us this day our daily dilithium.
And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into locbox temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory for ever and EVA.
Amen.
and for those who beguining to loose faith remember this from the book of revelation of st dontdrunkimshoot
"Unto the Angel of the starbase of Ephesus write; these things saith He that holdeth the 'Seven Stars' in His right hand, who walketh in the midst of the 'Seven Golden tricorder'.
I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil; and thou hast tried them which say they are Apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars; and hast borne, and hast patience, and for My Name's Sake hast labored, and hast not fainted.
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou Hast Left Thy First Love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy tricorder out of his place, except thou repent.
But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the polaronist, which I also hate.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the SPIRIT saith unto the starbases: To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the replicator, which is in the midst of the holy galaxy class."
and also this one...
"And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the attack pattern Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the replicator of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his starship, and he shall be my captain. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with plasma fire and brimstone; which is the second respawn."
that all folks, keep it going:)
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Amen... All Hail the Holy Galaxy!
One we don't really feel like defending someone that seems to be more likely watching as we are fed alive to the wolves with no thought of intervening.
Two we don't care to focus on it. It added nothing, and anyone that reads it will know it was out of line, or will read it and keep their opinions on it to themselves.
Mostly, we just don't focus on them.
The focus of this thread is the problems of the Galaxy class and its epitomization of the problems faced by the Cruisers in general.
I really like the suggestion that Beam Overload be an Engineering skill.
Hadn't thought of that before. As a counter to that, it is still a tactical ability. So it makes sense there too.
I agree completely. This thread is for this reason: and in addition to veraticus' definition, it also includes the discussion around this ship, Cryptic's effect on it, and cruiser mechanics when related to this vessel. Nothing to do with these:
I don't see anything about the Galaxy-class starship in these posts at all; and if there is any mention to the Galaxy, it's a rude, derogatory, and flawed nickname.
(Side note: It's actually quite interesting. Note that some of the many, many posts this user has posted contain descriptive words that can also, if not better, describe him/herself, such as "ignoring" posts, whining, hypocrisy, "end run", etc. And still, this user refuses to contribute meaningfully to the thread.)
Also, yes, having Beam Overload as an Engineering ability would indeed be interesting. Although, it might cause certain problems when an Engineering-heavy escort makes use of said power.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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To Polareanbeam. SHUT UP AGAIN. You say nothing contructive and attack people who see a problem and like it fixed. If you comment again and have nothing constructive to say i will report you. sO SAY SOMETHING CONTRUCTIVE TO THE THREAD OR JUST...SHUT UP!
if you don't feed the troll, perhaps it will crawl back to the youtube comments section that spawned it.
BO like an eng hability i already star to listen tactical captains scream, what if eng get other ablity like:
Torpedo Heavy lock = THL1 = incresed ACC and CRTH of next torpedo
Eng Captain with training in "Starship Projectile Weapons" lvl 6 can train that hability THL3
synchronized Torpedo launchers = STL1 = Fire 2 torpedos from all launchers at the same time
Eng Captain with training in "Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization" can train STL3
of course this will made CD any other tactical torpedo hability
i know lot of ppl will say torpedos are not the most effective weapon but with some good hability that can be changed and the cruciers are the most big ship and they can carry a haevy load of torpedos and to me is logical they can be like bombers this have may need a bit more tuning i dont want a god ship, and this can hlp all cruciers in game.
sry for any miss speling
I would like to hear any feedback pro or against but in a constructive spirit
I see what you are talking about, what I was thinking was on the lines of maybe the aux power/emergency 2 abilities that were Lt. Commander and higher could also temporarily increase the energy caps or decrease power drains (such as when BO is used during a EP2W buff). Maybe make Aceton Beam and other high level abilities more dangerous/offensive.
There is really not much of a need for an all universal Fed ship, there are so many combinations of BoFF stations with our vessels that there probably already a ship that has the layout someone wants. Case in point, many Galaxy-changer's want a layout like the Ambassador, Sovy or Excelsior, to which they are rebuffed , use an Ambassador, Sovy or Excelsior.
Working on engineering BoFF abilities to make them useful (as I state in another post today) can make engineering leaning ships like the Galaxy unique and effective.
That is certainly the wrong approach to counter someone and will probably get you censored.
I don't want another copy of those ships, this will make the gal more unique and adaptable to suit anyone's needs.
And in regaurds to beam, if I'm censored for that they they are really messed up if they let him get away with what he says.
Well we could start by asking to have DEM actually work as it was originally intended?
I do like the idea of Aceton Beam working on more than just a PvE target as a debuff.
Reduce the cooldown to a minute thirty and have it inflict 100 damage over 15 seconds.
Same amount of damage over the length of the debuff, just done faster increasing pressure.
Allow an innate reduced beam drain on DEM and instead of an increase in Shield Pen say while active it ignores x% of opponents shields.
Separate the various team abilities from each other so they no longer share a cooldown.
For example say you use Engineering Team, and then use Science Team.
Science Team will remove all Science debuffs but will not apply the Shield Regeneration.
Tactical Team would remove boarding parties, Tactical debuffs, and possibly even the redistribute effect but not increase your weapon and projectile training.
Engineering Team if used after another Team ability would repair disabled systems.
Additionally I think that all hull and shield heals should be a % heal.
So ships running with a higher shield amount or having more power into shields would have a more valuable shield heal. While ships with a higher hull amount would have a more valuable hull heal. And all ships would receive the same % of their health back.
So the Galaxy R gets an all universal layout. The day that happens all Oddy and Vesta pilots including Assault Cruiser pilots will scream for the same thing since their ships are technically "newer" than the Galaxy line.
Giving ONE single cruiser class ship an all uni layout would then stack that ship above all other cruiser ships in the federation. Cryptic would lose money, and possibly any future customers for the Oddy, Vesta and Assault Cruiser. Also the reason a lot of the klink ships have uni layouts is simple... they dont have lot of ships to choose from compared to the federation. The Federation on the otherhand has a overabundance of ships, all with varying boff layouts.
Whamhammer makes a good point about this...
To which you reply...
rubish. that is THE worst possible station setup a ship can have, due to the lack of variety of different system cooldowns you get at eng ENS. it prevents use of EPtS3, if you use that on the ship it will have have to leave one of its ens station empty. the ship also has the least cruiser damage output thanks to the low number of tac stations, tac consoles and turn rate. inferior tanking and healing ability due to system cooldonws tripping over each other of the possible skills you can slot. and lack of sci powers, with more eng abilities then are possibly useful. theres a good reason why the ody with a LTC and LT sci is the best cruiser healers, because thats were the best heals are. the galaxy is as far removed from that as is possible. its garbage in every category you can rate a cruiser in.
theres like 1 unique boff station setup left for a fed cruiser
COM eng
LTC tac
LT eng
LT sci
ENS sci
a mirror of the ambassador, and like the galor but without the universal LT, and 10 turn rate. thats what the galaxy should have, it even suits the canon ship well. and a 4/3/3 console setup, in fleet form
That may not be the examples to prove the Galaxy's worth. The one redeeming quality the Galaxy has is its ridiculous durability if properly built.
As far as the Galaxy-X holding off 3 players... I think that the Galaxy-X pilot must've had at least some competency, but the bigger factor was that 3 opposing players were wasting their time on it!
Most players in PvP know that cruisers are the LAST thing you take out in a PvP match. They are incredibly tough to kill, the Galaxy and Galaxy-X more so than other cruisers. The only time you would go after a cruiser is if it was badly built and easy to pop (newer players that recently dinged 50), or if the rest of the team is actually harder to kill, such as romulan ships constantly cloaking and decloaking before doing an alpha and instantly speeding away with EM and/or EPtE. In such cases killing the cruisers may be easier/faster. I realize its an extreme case but it happened to me in a pug vs. pug match. It was pretty funny tbh.
Id be happy with
COM Eng
LTC Eng
LTC Sci
LT Tact
4/4/2
In my opinion, its strength should flow from its adaptability in combat allowing it to use both the power of Science and Engineering and making Engineering abilities stronger in order to give it viability as a "Command Cruiser". That was the role it served during the Dominion War and I would like to see it equipped with this;
Lt Tactical
Commander Engineering
Lt Commander Science
Lt Engineering
Ens Science
This design has a good balance for ship, allowing access to additional science powers to support the undercutting of DPS compared to the flat out increase that the Sovereign and Excelsior.
BO doesn't really make sense as a tactical ability. Fire at will/torpedo spreads/cannon volleys etc. are all basically tactics/manneuvres like attack patterns. A beam overload, however, is an *overload*, a energy transfer and would be better suited in the engineering slot in my opinion - this would also benefit other cruisers and engineers in general, since they can counter the power drain via their natural abilities.
This would give the Galaxy more flexibility slotting another damage enhancing ability in the high ranking engineers instead of a healing or buff. I think it would work quite well.
I actually don't call the ship garbage - to be honest, I can dish out decent damage in my R and tank very well in case tanking is actually a viable option. I don't want better turnrate, I don't want more tactical boffs, I'd really like a peak damage ability (BO to engineers or shipwise) to support team/individual damage though. I also don't think an all universal boff layout would make sense - remember nobody wants the Galaxy class to be the uber-ship making everything else obsolete.
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Some might argue that giving Cruisers access to that kind of burst would upset the balance between Escorts and Cruisers. Cruisers in general could be running with two copies of BO, most likely R2 and 3. In addition to that, Tac Captains can pilot Cruisers and would be able to buff them with their own innate skills.
As a possible final nail in that argument I mention the Galaxy X.
A Tac Captain in a Galaxy X right now can one shot people. Add in the option of running with BO2/3 and a Phaser Lance. And why fly an Escort at all?
That said, I do agree with your assessment that BO does not really seem like a "tactical" ability.
I'd like to see the C-Store and Fleet variants of the Galaxy class get the "coveted" tenth console slot.
And a LtC Universal at the minimum.
Actually those kinds of suggestions are few and far inbetween.
It is others reading this thread that choose to single these so called ideas out rather than actually put forth the effort in constructively responding to other more common and viable ideas. It has always been easier to tear down than to build up.
It isn't just the LtC Tac slot on the Excelsior, that provides it with 3 viable and valuable abilities, that gives the FAHC its edge. It is the 60% weapon damage edge she can command over any Galaxy vessel with the sole exception being the Galaxy X where it only has a possible 30% edge.
Compare that to the EIGHT Engineering slots available on the Galaxy R and only 2 tac consoles.
That is enough to slot almost the entire line up of Engineering abilities.
There are 14 space abilities available for Engineering. You can slot over half of that in a Galaxy R and there is no reason to carry most of them as they either don't work, don't overlap, clash with your build or are just flat out garbage.
As for the consoles, the Engineering consoles that are of most value have diminishing returns for their value, Tactical consoles do not.
Did they destroy any of the 3 ships attacking it?
I and others have seen Escorts take on 3 ships and have it end in a draw or sometimes even in the Escorts favor.
As for being space debris in a single pass. Seen it.
And there in lies the problem.
There is no need for tanking in this game. None.
And as also mentioned by dontdrunkimshoot, her layout is not conducive to tanking anyways as Engineering powers are constantly tripping over each other.
It isn't so much that she is a bad ship as it is that she is a misplaced ship with a botched layout.
As repeatedly mentioned in this thread. Even in the last couple of pages. We don't want her to be the best ship available. We agreed long ago that despite what we believe to be shown onscreen in games like this ships like the Sovereign will be more powerful. And we are ok with that. But there is nothing wrong with making the Galaxy line of Cruisers a viable option as well. It would even help the game to do so, not hurt it.