any galaxy class built after the introduction of the sovereign and intrepid most likely came with gel packs, EMHs, mkXII emitters, and all that, theres no chance they were built to the enterprise D's and uss galaxys original spec. those oldest galaxy class if they didn't get most of that stuff from incremental upgrades along the way, would have got them and more at there massive every 20 years refit. were they literally replace everything but the bulkheads with the most modern spec equipment.
they predicted the original space frame design would still be workable and upgradable for the next hundred years, and they were most likely still building them for at least the first 50 of those years. the enterprise D might have gotten the MKXII emitters in season 7 anyway, there was an off hand remark saying their phasers had been upgraded, as early as 2370 it could have happened. the gel packs, no later then the 20 year refit did the original surviving galaxys get those. all this 'most advanced' stuff, its just added to starfleets parts bin, no ship is most advance for very long, and the most advanced ships are soon leap froged by older ships getting their overhauls.
I eagerly follow the discussion but the age argument is thrown in repeatedly. But I ask you, what about the Monarch-class? Sure, it is a Cryptic invention but shouldn't that bring the "Galaxy" to current technological standards (Gel packs and all?)?
i'm not saying it's because of age. eventually star fleet would upgrade the gal to have gel packs. even if they had to totally strip the ship and reinstall from scratch. the gal would be incapable of quantum slipstream, it would be able to use transwarp, witch do not do not have a ship design constraint.
i'm saying that the gal should be upgraded to fill it's roll in this time period, a patrol ship, within the federation borders not an exploration ship, like it was originally intended. i like the gal, she's a novelty ship, who's life expectancy would be a hundred if not two hundred years. it's just that the technology that surpassed the gal could never be used on her. but hay, the federation needs something to replace the aging excelsior, murandas and ambassadors.
it was INTENDED to be MODULAR so they could quickly re-purpose it as & when the need arose.
internally contradictory sentence.
the ambassador or defiant, which where failed designs, would be closer to that, seeing as the federation basically called them failures as they where.
you either dont know, or are deliberately ignoring the meaning of a "major refit".
the ambies replacment is the galaxy.
the excel's replacment may well be the sovereign. (though thats a debate of its own)
and the miranda already has the mirian(though not (yet) in game) and the Shi'Ka.
look at voyager, where the quantum slipstream is first introduced, by an alien, his ship was specifically designed to use it, we know it as the NX-01-a.
point two the borg assimilated the technology but never used it on there cube, instead using the transwarp drive.
yes i do know what a major refit is, but some tech can not be passed on. that can be seen with the the last enterprise, her life expectancy with her reactors were over a hundred years, but instead they retired her after 60, why? Because certain tech could not be integrated into her systems.
I've studied the tech in starfleet for years, all three drives the warp drive, quantum slip stream drive and the trans warp drive.
in warp the top seed in 9.99
slipstream is the next fasted, not having a limit as of yet but having it's own count, but has a constraint about shape of vessel, this can be seen by the delta flyer having a stable flight in it while the voyager is force into a crashed landing.
then transwarp is like instantaneous travel between places, but cant be contained for long distances.
theses are all facts that can be seen in tng, ds9, and voy.
and if you don't believe that, look at the vesta, she was designed for slipstream drive, the first in the fleet specifically designed for it.
first off not the conny but cvn-65 Enterprise the first nuclear aircraft carrier is what i was talking about. and before you give that does not count in st, it's just an example of how things don't go as planed in a ships life.
transwarp stands for transporter warp technology, so basically transporting the ship through space, yes a very complicated tech, which Scotty was the first to come up with in the federation. so no not an iconion gateway or a worm hole. this itself can be seen when lor took over a small amount of Borg in tng.
transwarp is safer, but not better, the main reason borg would not use slipstream is because they would have to radically change ship design. and they have this thing about perfection and symmetrical shapes being the closest thing to it.
the truth is slipstream works, on smiler vessels, not fat ones. the slipstream makes a narrow field subspace bubble that encompasses the ship, hence the wider the ship the more stress on the hall. causing either one the field to collapse or two the total destruction of the ship, from hall stress.
this in turn caused star fleet to design ships that are narrower and longer, as (i hate using this reference) can be seen at the new ship designs currently in use by star fleet, all smaller, narrower vessels that can withstand the stress of slipstream drive.
and if you don't want to believe me and my years of star trek knowledge, from constant tv reruns, watching owned eps, witch i own them all, and all the movies. not to mention the technical guides to starships. so be it.
anyway i was saying i supported the idea of an leveled up gal, just not a super gal that can do anything and everything, every ship should have it's own place within the fleet.
...
those oldest galaxy class if they didn't get most of that stuff from incremental upgrades along the way, would have got them and more at there massive every 20 years refit. were they literally replace everything but the bulkheads with the most modern spec equipment.
Similar to the Constitution Enterprise between TOS and TMP. But unlike the Contitution, the Galaxy Class was especially built to get a massive refit every 20 years.
If the Devs would have made their homework before adding the Galaxy Class into their game we would have gotten a very different ship than that useless bucket we have now.
The Galaxy Class is the only ship i know of which was especially designed to be highly modifiable so it could still be in service in a hundred years, so it should be far better in any way than a Excelsior or Ambassador class IMHO. (which is not possible, since this is a MMO, so it should be at least more versatile and being able to match both ships in their preffered field of work.)
The Excelsior class was a lucky strike for Starfleet in its days, because of its adaptability to new technologies.
Starfleet engineers used that knowledge when designing the Ambassador and later perfecting it with the Galaxy Class.
In my opinion the Galaxy Class isn't a (tactical) specialist like the Sovereign Class, it should be a much better all round ship, able to come close to the sovereigns pure tactical capabilities but not surpassing it.
Being a bit slower than a Sovereign it should be more able to utilize science AND tactical powers alike.
But in any case it should be able to become a (tactical) monster compared to the Excelsior or the Galor Class.
Just my 2 cents.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
you got a reference on that requirement for slim ships that isnt a paraphrase of the nx-01 refit being limited to warp 3 due to the alien deflector tech it had?
should be easy since you own all of them.
i do but you probably wouldn't like it.
the Vesta technical manual
and
the trilogy of books the destiny novels.
+ we've seen how fast the slipstream is, voyager took 10000 light years off in just a few min. compared to the 9500 of the transwarp coil that they stole from the borg, witch took hours to travel if not days. so then tell me why the borg didn't use it then? Given all that we know of the borg?
congratulations on repeating the same fallacy. voyagers use of slipstream vs the alien ships use.
vs voyagers use of transwarp vs the borgs use of transwarp.
both transwarp and slipstream being alien technology to voyager, and the tech they where using being a patch job rather than integrated design.
much like the analogy i made to the nx-01 refit being stuck at warp 3 (slower than the nx-01)because it had alien tech on it causing problems that wouldnt be resolved until starfleet designed their own gear.
also, it was the borgs transwarp that got the ship back.
you are right, i dont like that reference, and any reference i can find in google calls slipstream speed unreliable, and "the speed of plot".:rolleyes:
ok look at this, the slipstream bubble is unstable, that's a given, so to achieve slipstream flight you need to make instantaneous adjustments (i mean with in microseconds). this can be seen when tom and harry test out the tech on the holo deck. this making it unreliable, yes. but once achieved is better then transwarp. and as for being alien tech, the slipstream drive on voyager was desighned and tested by B'Elanna and the crew of voyager, it was untested tech.
as for the transwarp coil that they stole from the borg, the intrepid class has sown it's adaptability to alien tech more then anyother starfleet ship. voyager itself needed a major refit when returning to earth, but yet ran better then anyother intrepid class starship in the fleet because of it's alien upgrades it had picked up along the way.
btw a transwarp hub is way different then a transwarp drive. a hub has longer range and faster travel, but you need special conditions to make one, as a fact there are only eight in existence all owned by the borg. while the transwarp drive is shorter distances, and easier to make.
first off not the conny but cvn-65 Enterprise the first nuclear aircraft carrier is what i was talking about. and before you give that does not count in st, it's just an example of how things don't go as planed in a ships life.
Not sure what this has to do with this thread.
transwarp stands for transporter warp technology, so basically transporting the ship through space, yes a very complicated tech, which Scotty was the first to come up with in the federation. so no not an iconion gateway or a worm hole. this itself can be seen when lore took over a small amount of Borg in tng.
Borg Transwarp Drives, Federation Transwarp drives, and the Transwarp Beaming technique devised by Scotty are two completely different "super warp speed" technologies.
Scotty's Transwarp Beaming: You can send a stream of matter and energy across space and time from one stationary object (assuming it's from a non-inertial frame of reference) to an object currently at warp speed (which is utilizing subspace), while factoring in the movement of space and all of its objects. Essentially, it's a transporter modification that allows transport of people over vast distances or to a ship exceeding light speed.
Federation Transwarp Drive: Technology developed in order to have a Federation vessel travel at speeds far exceeding what was then "conventional" warp speeds. The USS Excelsior was designed to hold the transwarp components and handle very fast speeds. We don't know if the Excelsior project would have actually worked, since Scotty sabotaged the drive, and there was no canon repeat attempts. We do know that Voyager's helmsman did manage to attain a different kind of transwarp (in that scenario, it referred to infinitesimal speed, aka Warp 10). Neither technique utilized the transporter. Also, Scotty did not invent this technology, and in fact, he commented against its success (before he sabotaged it).
Borg transwarp drive: Utilizing formerly-made transwarp conduits, the Borg transwarp drive depends on a transwarp coil, standard warp drive, nav deflector and deflector shields in order to travel at very fast speeds. Again, no use of the transporter system.
btw a transwarp hub is way different then a transwarp drive. a hub has longer range and faster travel, but you need special conditions to make one, as a fact there are only eight in existence all owned by the borg. while the transwarp drive is shorter distances, and easier to make.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transwarp_hub
A transwarp hub was a structure used by the Borg Collective to connect the vast network of transwarp conduits which it maintained across the galaxy.
Think of a highway system. The highways are transwarp conduits, and the transwarp hub is a whole bunch of highways connecting at one central location. At that point, a car can choose to travel along a highway and reach a destination.
transwarp is safer, but not better, the main reason borg would not use slipstream is because they would have to radically change ship design. and they have this thing about perfection and symmetrical shapes being the closest thing to it.
the truth is slipstream works, on smiler vessels, not fat ones. the slipstream makes a narrow field subspace bubble that encompasses the ship, hence the wider the ship the more stress on the hall. causing either one the field to collapse or two the total destruction of the ship, from hall stress.
this in turn caused star fleet to design ships that are narrower and longer, as (i hate using this reference) can be seen at the new ship designs currently in use by star fleet, all smaller, narrower vessels that can withstand the stress of slipstream drive.
and if you don't want to believe me and my years of star trek knowledge, from constant tv reruns, watching owned eps, witch i own them all, and all the movies. not to mention the technical guides to starships. so be it.
This is riddled with fanon.
Transwarp is by no means safer. Watch what happens to Paris when he super-evolved into a lizard as a result for traveling at infinitesimal speeds. Watch what happens to Voyager when it chases Arturis's faux ship. Watch what happens to Voyager again when they try and improve on the slipstream technique. Safer? The NX-01 Transporter is safer than the 2374 Slipstream Drive!
It is not said anywhere about a smaller, narrower ship being capable of slipstream. Here's what Memory Alpha, an apocryphal source, has to say about the technology.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Quantum_slipstream_drive
Technical Data
Quantum slipstream drive operated by routing energy through the vessel's main deflector, which then focused a quantum field, allowing the vessel to penetrate the quantum barrier. In order to maintain the slipstream, the phase variance of the quantum field had to be constantly adjusted, or the slipstream would collapse, violently throwing the ship back into normal space.
According to Star Trek Encyclopedia (3rd ed., p.651), the slipstream was created through subspace.
I can go back and watch the entire two episodes again (VOY: "Hope and Fear" and VOY: "Timeless"), to try and catch some kind of proof when a character says "Slipstream is only used on sleeker designs". As far as I know, there is zero connection between the sleek design of a starship and the capability of said ship to enter quantum slipstream.
As for "causing Starfleet to design ships that are narrower and longer", that is purely based on the game's new ship designs. We have zero proof that Starfleet designed sleeker ships after the return of Voyager, since we see no new ships after its return. In fact, the bulky Enterprise-J type ship would be countering your statements. It's fat and very much against your theory of Starfleet designing sleeker ships that are narrower and longer.
+ we've seen how fast the slipstream is, voyager took 10000 light years off in just a few min. compared to the 9500 of the transwarp coil that they stole from the borg, witch took hours to travel if not days. so then tell me why the borg didn't use it then? Given all that we know of the borg?
The Vesta Technical Manual is an unofficial source. The Destiny trilogy is licensed material. Neither of them are considered canon sources, and are therefore rendered nullified in this discussion about Star Trek's quantum slipstream drive (as opposed to Destiny Trilogy's slipstream drive).
And it's not that I don't believe you. It's just that all of the things you state are conjectural. There is no proof.
anyway i was saying i supported the idea of an leveled up gal, just not a super gal that can do anything and everything, every ship should have it's own place within the fleet.
They're not saying that either. They propose a Galaxy that isn't handicapped by redundant Boff seats and bad console layouts.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
And it's not that I don't believe you. It's just that all of the things you state are conjectural. There is no proof.
thats the whole problem there is no proof for or against it. i stated the tech manual and the books because he asked about a source that was not integrated alien tech, and because it's not cannon, i know he wouldn't like it. but i could also say there is nothing that saying there's not a limitation on shape. when you put two and two together you get four. so by putting the lack of use by borg and ship design of the NX01-a (Yes an alien ship) you get this restriction. yes i might be wrong in the long run, if they decide to come out with a new series and allow the use on all ships. but until then i'll believe what i believe. it's just too hard to believe that the borg would not use it otherwise and be restricted to tech that relies on fixed points in space.
another thing you need to consider is that the bigger the ship the bigger the slipstream bubble, the easier it can fracture in multiple places simultaneously. with current computing power it would be impassable on bigger ships, nearly imposable on an intrepid class, witch has one of the strongest computers in the fleet. about the J, thats At least 100 years from time in the game, more then that from the show, in that time tech could largely advance, allowing bigger vessels, like the j, or the j could use an yet to be discovered warp type, thats better and faster then both trans and slip.
I never said slipstream or transwarp is the safest, with regular warp even one miss calculation could destroy the whole ship without a moments notice.
but this is the last i'll talk about slipstream mechanics in this thread, it is a Galaxy thread after all.
thats the whole problem there is no proof for or against it. i stated the tech manual and the books because he asked about a source that was not integrated alien tech, and because it's not cannon, i know he wouldn't like it. but i could also say there is nothing that saying there's not a limitation on shape. when you put two and two together you get four. so by putting the lack of use by borg and ship design of the NX01-a (Yes an alien ship) you get this restriction. yes i might be wrong in the long run, if they decide to come out with a new series and allow the use on all ships. but until then i'll believe what i believe. it's just too hard to believe that the borg would not use it otherwise and be restricted to tech that relies on fixed points in space.
another thing you need to consider is that the bigger the ship the bigger the slipstream bubble, the easier it can fracture in multiple places simultaneously. with current computing power it would be impassable on bigger ships, nearly imposable on an intrepid class, witch has one of the strongest computers in the fleet. about the J, thats At least 100 years from time in the game, more then that from the show, in that time tech could largely advance, allowing bigger vessels, like the j, or the j could use an yet to be discovered warp type, thats better and faster then both trans and slip.
I never said slipstream or transwarp is the safest, with regular warp even one miss calculation could destroy the whole ship without a moments notice.
but this is the last i'll talk about slipstream mechanics in this thread, it is a Galaxy thread after all.
Again, this is just a pile of conjecture and assumed "fact".
What's to say that the Borg transwarp conduit system is more effective than a slipstream system, and that's why they are using that? Not because of the sleekness of a vessel, but because the Borg technology is so far advanced from the slipstream technology that it would be meaningless to revert backwards.
And as for the slipstream bubble, it was not said canonically whether that logic applies to slipstream principles. A bunch of assumptions with no proof.
Transwarp is definitely not safer. Neither is slipstream. Both technologies rely on a perfectly working system in order to travel at very fast speeds.
But anyways, you're right. This should be about the Galaxy-class, and we've strayed pretty far from that.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
All valid points but that is some other ship, not the Galaxy, the Galaxy is effectively a battleship and an old flagship of the Federation, during the Dominion war, they could dish out devastating damage so again Cryptic tries to rewrite Star Trek lore.
The Galaxy is NOT a tank, anymore then the Intrepid is NOT a Science Vessel
If you want to talk about lore, the Galaxy class starship was NEVER meant to be a battleship. It was an long distance exploratory and research vessel. The Dominion War was spearheaded by the Defiant class starship, which was a warship, the Galaxy was in a largely support role in battles in the Dominion War. And I'll be honest, i tank more in my escort than i ever see crusiers doing.
If you want to talk about lore, the Galaxy class starship was NEVER meant to be a battleship. It was an long distance exploratory and research vessel. The Dominion War was spearheaded by the Defiant class starship, which was a warship, the Galaxy was in a largely support role in battles in the Dominion War. And I'll be honest, i tank more in my escort than i ever see crusiers doing.
The Defiant spear headed combat because it was the hero ship of the DS9 series. The Defiant was built to defend against the borg.
Also, the Galaxy class spear headed the fleet of ships which were sent to defend DS9 against the Klingons. It has though been described as a battleship in one episode and several alternate timeline episodes.
To be fair, in the Voyager episode where Paris breaks Warp 10, in the testing phases there is some discussion about the positioning of the nessels and how they were the main reason the shuttle would break up.
They were able to compensate but it is logical to assume that an optimal ship design (aka 'sleeker') would be the better solution with a greater impact on performance.
From what I gather, transwarp does seem to create forces that can rip a ship apart akin to approaching sonic speeds in Earth's atmosphere.
This isn't explicitly stated but the explanations provided in this episode do infer it.
(...)The Dominion War was spearheaded by the Defiant class starship, which was a warship, the Galaxy was in a largely support role in battles in the Dominion War.(...)
In addition to what the other posters said, the Defiant was meant to manneuver through small gaps, deal damage and move on. With the esception of the Hero ship, these vessels had the same function as Miranda class ships and shuttles.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
To be fair, in the Voyager episode where Paris breaks Warp 10, in the testing phases there is some discussion about the positioning of the nessels and how they were the main reason the shuttle would break up.
They were able to compensate but it is logical to assume that an optimal ship design (aka 'sleeker') would be the better solution with a greater impact on performance.
From what I gather, transwarp does seem to create forces that can rip a ship apart akin to approaching sonic speeds in Earth's atmosphere.
This isn't explicitly stated but the explanations provided in this episode do infer it.
the problem wasnt that the nacels position but that at thouse speeds they start going faster then the rest of the ship(think it was because shuttle wasnt ment to go that speed or something have to watch the episode to be sure know the name?)
its not about what happened in wich episode. The writers can do whatever they want to tell a story.
This threat is about the galaxy in game. Its pretty much useless in the firepower department. And since this game focuses alot around firepower instead of tanking (wich the ingame galaxy certasinly can do) thats quite a disadvantage.
Considering that all T5 variants of the ship are either bought by zen or fleet modules it is obvious that people who paid real money for said ship would like to see cryptic to take a look an upgrade for the galaxy or at least a new version.
For me its not much about being a fan of the design, i like it but i dont go crazy about it, its about all endgame tier 5 ships should be on somewhat equal footing.
and the connie was often called the same thing, yet people arent so butt hurt about it being a heavy cruiser, which afaik, only klingons ever called it that.
That's because the Enterprise display graphics had the heading "Class I Heavy Cruiser" in Star Trek III, clear as day. Therefore, it was.
Some get butthurt about it because those were taken from Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual. Most of the howling comes from your acolytes from the Cult of Roddenberry.
In that same film, Torg referred to the Enterprise as a "Federation battlecruiser" as they (Kirk and Co.) approached Genesis.
Even the heads of Voyager say that episode was a mistake so we can all ignore it.
Also the whole battleship debate here. lets put in simple terms. During most of the kirk era Starfleet was in equal balance of military defense and peaceful exploration. After the Khitomer Peace Treaty you slowly saw that idea slip to more exploration. To the Fleet around TNG the Galaxy was an Expoloration ship but to the Klingons and others it is a Federation Battleship for Galaxy filled that role. Mindset matters.
I'm surprised that people cannot get over the terminology or the mindset that even a ship that is not a battleship can sport strong weaponry as a meassure of defense. The Galaxy-Class, even the Ent-D with their mostly civilian crew was armed super heavily. Enough that more warlike points of view (as the last poster said) classified it as a battleship, though this was not the intented function of the ship. It is and always has been - like ANY OTHER starfleet vessel - a multi-mission vessel, doing whatever needs to be done with a strong focus on peaceful missions. Yet, being peaceful does not equal being weak or foolish and I think that is what people don't get or don't want to get. They seem to think that in order to be taken seriously you must go all badass-military, because that's "cool" and everything else is just whimps.
A example outside of Star Trek are the Bentusi in Homeworld, for example. A species of space faring beings that are quasi pacifistic in their views, they never interfere military, yet feature the most powerful weaponry on their ships able to blow away entire fleets - they just don't employ it in an aggressive manner, just like Starfleet was portrayed in the TNG era.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
the game is poorly designed when 8 beam arrays is the only real option, or a single cannon build on a few.
You've nailed one of my frustrations with cruisers and weapon design in this game. Beam arrays have no synergy with any other kind of weapon, unlike cannons. Want to create an iconic build without gimping your ability to contribute damage? Want to approach your enemies as seen in almost all the film rather than try to fly circles around them? Tough! In your 70 degree box you must go if you want all your guns to fire!
Comments
they predicted the original space frame design would still be workable and upgradable for the next hundred years, and they were most likely still building them for at least the first 50 of those years. the enterprise D might have gotten the MKXII emitters in season 7 anyway, there was an off hand remark saying their phasers had been upgraded, as early as 2370 it could have happened. the gel packs, no later then the 20 year refit did the original surviving galaxys get those. all this 'most advanced' stuff, its just added to starfleets parts bin, no ship is most advance for very long, and the most advanced ships are soon leap froged by older ships getting their overhauls.
i'm not saying it's because of age. eventually star fleet would upgrade the gal to have gel packs. even if they had to totally strip the ship and reinstall from scratch. the gal would be incapable of quantum slipstream, it would be able to use transwarp, witch do not do not have a ship design constraint.
i'm saying that the gal should be upgraded to fill it's roll in this time period, a patrol ship, within the federation borders not an exploration ship, like it was originally intended. i like the gal, she's a novelty ship, who's life expectancy would be a hundred if not two hundred years. it's just that the technology that surpassed the gal could never be used on her. but hay, the federation needs something to replace the aging excelsior, murandas and ambassadors.
Fed: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=780321
RR: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12150781#post12150781
KDF: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=784941
look at voyager, where the quantum slipstream is first introduced, by an alien, his ship was specifically designed to use it, we know it as the NX-01-a.
point two the borg assimilated the technology but never used it on there cube, instead using the transwarp drive.
yes i do know what a major refit is, but some tech can not be passed on. that can be seen with the the last enterprise, her life expectancy with her reactors were over a hundred years, but instead they retired her after 60, why? Because certain tech could not be integrated into her systems.
I've studied the tech in starfleet for years, all three drives the warp drive, quantum slip stream drive and the trans warp drive.
in warp the top seed in 9.99
slipstream is the next fasted, not having a limit as of yet but having it's own count, but has a constraint about shape of vessel, this can be seen by the delta flyer having a stable flight in it while the voyager is force into a crashed landing.
then transwarp is like instantaneous travel between places, but cant be contained for long distances.
theses are all facts that can be seen in tng, ds9, and voy.
and if you don't believe that, look at the vesta, she was designed for slipstream drive, the first in the fleet specifically designed for it.
Fed: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=780321
RR: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12150781#post12150781
KDF: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=784941
first off not the conny but cvn-65 Enterprise the first nuclear aircraft carrier is what i was talking about. and before you give that does not count in st, it's just an example of how things don't go as planed in a ships life.
transwarp stands for transporter warp technology, so basically transporting the ship through space, yes a very complicated tech, which Scotty was the first to come up with in the federation. so no not an iconion gateway or a worm hole. this itself can be seen when lor took over a small amount of Borg in tng.
transwarp is safer, but not better, the main reason borg would not use slipstream is because they would have to radically change ship design. and they have this thing about perfection and symmetrical shapes being the closest thing to it.
the truth is slipstream works, on smiler vessels, not fat ones. the slipstream makes a narrow field subspace bubble that encompasses the ship, hence the wider the ship the more stress on the hall. causing either one the field to collapse or two the total destruction of the ship, from hall stress.
this in turn caused star fleet to design ships that are narrower and longer, as (i hate using this reference) can be seen at the new ship designs currently in use by star fleet, all smaller, narrower vessels that can withstand the stress of slipstream drive.
and if you don't want to believe me and my years of star trek knowledge, from constant tv reruns, watching owned eps, witch i own them all, and all the movies. not to mention the technical guides to starships. so be it.
anyway i was saying i supported the idea of an leveled up gal, just not a super gal that can do anything and everything, every ship should have it's own place within the fleet.
Fed: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=780321
RR: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12150781#post12150781
KDF: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=784941
If the Devs would have made their homework before adding the Galaxy Class into their game we would have gotten a very different ship than that useless bucket we have now.
The Galaxy Class is the only ship i know of which was especially designed to be highly modifiable so it could still be in service in a hundred years, so it should be far better in any way than a Excelsior or Ambassador class IMHO.
(which is not possible, since this is a MMO, so it should be at least more versatile and being able to match both ships in their preffered field of work.)
The Excelsior class was a lucky strike for Starfleet in its days, because of its adaptability to new technologies.
Starfleet engineers used that knowledge when designing the Ambassador and later perfecting it with the Galaxy Class.
In my opinion the Galaxy Class isn't a (tactical) specialist like the Sovereign Class, it should be a much better all round ship, able to come close to the sovereigns pure tactical capabilities but not surpassing it.
Being a bit slower than a Sovereign it should be more able to utilize science AND tactical powers alike.
But in any case it should be able to become a (tactical) monster compared to the Excelsior or the Galor Class.
Just my 2 cents.
i do but you probably wouldn't like it.
the Vesta technical manual
and
the trilogy of books the destiny novels.
+ we've seen how fast the slipstream is, voyager took 10000 light years off in just a few min. compared to the 9500 of the transwarp coil that they stole from the borg, witch took hours to travel if not days. so then tell me why the borg didn't use it then? Given all that we know of the borg?
Fed: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=780321
RR: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12150781#post12150781
KDF: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=784941
ok look at this, the slipstream bubble is unstable, that's a given, so to achieve slipstream flight you need to make instantaneous adjustments (i mean with in microseconds). this can be seen when tom and harry test out the tech on the holo deck. this making it unreliable, yes. but once achieved is better then transwarp. and as for being alien tech, the slipstream drive on voyager was desighned and tested by B'Elanna and the crew of voyager, it was untested tech.
as for the transwarp coil that they stole from the borg, the intrepid class has sown it's adaptability to alien tech more then anyother starfleet ship. voyager itself needed a major refit when returning to earth, but yet ran better then anyother intrepid class starship in the fleet because of it's alien upgrades it had picked up along the way.
btw a transwarp hub is way different then a transwarp drive. a hub has longer range and faster travel, but you need special conditions to make one, as a fact there are only eight in existence all owned by the borg. while the transwarp drive is shorter distances, and easier to make.
Fed: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=780321
RR: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12150781#post12150781
KDF: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=784941
Scotty's Transwarp Beaming: You can send a stream of matter and energy across space and time from one stationary object (assuming it's from a non-inertial frame of reference) to an object currently at warp speed (which is utilizing subspace), while factoring in the movement of space and all of its objects. Essentially, it's a transporter modification that allows transport of people over vast distances or to a ship exceeding light speed.
Federation Transwarp Drive: Technology developed in order to have a Federation vessel travel at speeds far exceeding what was then "conventional" warp speeds. The USS Excelsior was designed to hold the transwarp components and handle very fast speeds. We don't know if the Excelsior project would have actually worked, since Scotty sabotaged the drive, and there was no canon repeat attempts. We do know that Voyager's helmsman did manage to attain a different kind of transwarp (in that scenario, it referred to infinitesimal speed, aka Warp 10). Neither technique utilized the transporter. Also, Scotty did not invent this technology, and in fact, he commented against its success (before he sabotaged it).
Borg transwarp drive: Utilizing formerly-made transwarp conduits, the Borg transwarp drive depends on a transwarp coil, standard warp drive, nav deflector and deflector shields in order to travel at very fast speeds. Again, no use of the transporter system.
Think of a highway system. The highways are transwarp conduits, and the transwarp hub is a whole bunch of highways connecting at one central location. At that point, a car can choose to travel along a highway and reach a destination.
It is not a huge catapult.
Oh, and there are only six of them, not eight.
This is riddled with fanon.
Transwarp is by no means safer. Watch what happens to Paris when he super-evolved into a lizard as a result for traveling at infinitesimal speeds. Watch what happens to Voyager when it chases Arturis's faux ship. Watch what happens to Voyager again when they try and improve on the slipstream technique. Safer? The NX-01 Transporter is safer than the 2374 Slipstream Drive!
It is not said anywhere about a smaller, narrower ship being capable of slipstream. Here's what Memory Alpha, an apocryphal source, has to say about the technology.
I can go back and watch the entire two episodes again (VOY: "Hope and Fear" and VOY: "Timeless"), to try and catch some kind of proof when a character says "Slipstream is only used on sleeker designs". As far as I know, there is zero connection between the sleek design of a starship and the capability of said ship to enter quantum slipstream.
As for "causing Starfleet to design ships that are narrower and longer", that is purely based on the game's new ship designs. We have zero proof that Starfleet designed sleeker ships after the return of Voyager, since we see no new ships after its return. In fact, the bulky Enterprise-J type ship would be countering your statements. It's fat and very much against your theory of Starfleet designing sleeker ships that are narrower and longer.
But wait! Here's what you said later:
The Vesta Technical Manual is an unofficial source. The Destiny trilogy is licensed material. Neither of them are considered canon sources, and are therefore rendered nullified in this discussion about Star Trek's quantum slipstream drive (as opposed to Destiny Trilogy's slipstream drive).
And it's not that I don't believe you. It's just that all of the things you state are conjectural. There is no proof.
They're not saying that either. They propose a Galaxy that isn't handicapped by redundant Boff seats and bad console layouts.
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thats the whole problem there is no proof for or against it. i stated the tech manual and the books because he asked about a source that was not integrated alien tech, and because it's not cannon, i know he wouldn't like it. but i could also say there is nothing that saying there's not a limitation on shape. when you put two and two together you get four. so by putting the lack of use by borg and ship design of the NX01-a (Yes an alien ship) you get this restriction. yes i might be wrong in the long run, if they decide to come out with a new series and allow the use on all ships. but until then i'll believe what i believe. it's just too hard to believe that the borg would not use it otherwise and be restricted to tech that relies on fixed points in space.
another thing you need to consider is that the bigger the ship the bigger the slipstream bubble, the easier it can fracture in multiple places simultaneously. with current computing power it would be impassable on bigger ships, nearly imposable on an intrepid class, witch has one of the strongest computers in the fleet. about the J, thats At least 100 years from time in the game, more then that from the show, in that time tech could largely advance, allowing bigger vessels, like the j, or the j could use an yet to be discovered warp type, thats better and faster then both trans and slip.
I never said slipstream or transwarp is the safest, with regular warp even one miss calculation could destroy the whole ship without a moments notice.
but this is the last i'll talk about slipstream mechanics in this thread, it is a Galaxy thread after all.
Fed: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=780321
RR: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12150781#post12150781
KDF: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=784941
Again, this is just a pile of conjecture and assumed "fact".
What's to say that the Borg transwarp conduit system is more effective than a slipstream system, and that's why they are using that? Not because of the sleekness of a vessel, but because the Borg technology is so far advanced from the slipstream technology that it would be meaningless to revert backwards.
And as for the slipstream bubble, it was not said canonically whether that logic applies to slipstream principles. A bunch of assumptions with no proof.
And yes, you did say it was safer. Right here:
Transwarp is definitely not safer. Neither is slipstream. Both technologies rely on a perfectly working system in order to travel at very fast speeds.
But anyways, you're right. This should be about the Galaxy-class, and we've strayed pretty far from that.
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If you want to talk about lore, the Galaxy class starship was NEVER meant to be a battleship. It was an long distance exploratory and research vessel. The Dominion War was spearheaded by the Defiant class starship, which was a warship, the Galaxy was in a largely support role in battles in the Dominion War. And I'll be honest, i tank more in my escort than i ever see crusiers doing.
The Defiant spear headed combat because it was the hero ship of the DS9 series. The Defiant was built to defend against the borg.
Also, the Galaxy class spear headed the fleet of ships which were sent to defend DS9 against the Klingons. It has though been described as a battleship in one episode and several alternate timeline episodes.
They were able to compensate but it is logical to assume that an optimal ship design (aka 'sleeker') would be the better solution with a greater impact on performance.
From what I gather, transwarp does seem to create forces that can rip a ship apart akin to approaching sonic speeds in Earth's atmosphere.
This isn't explicitly stated but the explanations provided in this episode do infer it.
In addition to what the other posters said, the Defiant was meant to manneuver through small gaps, deal damage and move on. With the esception of the Hero ship, these vessels had the same function as Miranda class ships and shuttles.
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the problem wasnt that the nacels position but that at thouse speeds they start going faster then the rest of the ship(think it was because shuttle wasnt ment to go that speed or something have to watch the episode to be sure know the name?)
This threat is about the galaxy in game. Its pretty much useless in the firepower department. And since this game focuses alot around firepower instead of tanking (wich the ingame galaxy certasinly can do) thats quite a disadvantage.
Considering that all T5 variants of the ship are either bought by zen or fleet modules it is obvious that people who paid real money for said ship would like to see cryptic to take a look an upgrade for the galaxy or at least a new version.
For me its not much about being a fan of the design, i like it but i dont go crazy about it, its about all endgame tier 5 ships should be on somewhat equal footing.
That's because the Enterprise display graphics had the heading "Class I Heavy Cruiser" in Star Trek III, clear as day. Therefore, it was.
Some get butthurt about it because those were taken from Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual. Most of the howling comes from your acolytes from the Cult of Roddenberry.
In that same film, Torg referred to the Enterprise as a "Federation battlecruiser" as they (Kirk and Co.) approached Genesis.
Also the whole battleship debate here. lets put in simple terms. During most of the kirk era Starfleet was in equal balance of military defense and peaceful exploration. After the Khitomer Peace Treaty you slowly saw that idea slip to more exploration. To the Fleet around TNG the Galaxy was an Expoloration ship but to the Klingons and others it is a Federation Battleship for Galaxy filled that role. Mindset matters.
A example outside of Star Trek are the Bentusi in Homeworld, for example. A species of space faring beings that are quasi pacifistic in their views, they never interfere military, yet feature the most powerful weaponry on their ships able to blow away entire fleets - they just don't employ it in an aggressive manner, just like Starfleet was portrayed in the TNG era.
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You've nailed one of my frustrations with cruisers and weapon design in this game. Beam arrays have no synergy with any other kind of weapon, unlike cannons. Want to create an iconic build without gimping your ability to contribute damage? Want to approach your enemies as seen in almost all the film rather than try to fly circles around them? Tough! In your 70 degree box you must go if you want all your guns to fire!