Then i would suggest, please start with the defiant and its god like firepower first, before arguing against the galaxy becoming at least as good as its precursors.
But "godlike firepower" and "general badassery" are the Defiant's calling card. We are told its powerful and we're SHOWN its powerful. We are constantly told the Galaxy was a powerful ship, but we're constantly shown how most of the wacky alien ships of the week totally neutralize it with little effort.
In an MMO Trinity you have the DPS dealer. He is the glass cannon. He can dish-out unrivaled damage that no other Class can come close to equaling but cannot take a lot himself. He constantly needs to be "saved" by the other Classes. Sounds a lot like an Escort, doesn't it?
Then you have the Tank. He can withstand damage that no other Class can endure, but he is only a mid-line damage dealer. His job is to draw aggro and take the beating. His wins are not glorious flurries of explosive power. He wins by outlasting his opponents. Sounds a lot like a Cruiser, doesn't it?
Finally you have the Support. Support's job is to Buff and Debuff. Support slowly weakens foe's shields and resistance, allowing allies to do more damage, while buffing allies. Sounds a lot like a Science Vessel, doesn't it?
And while STO's Trinity is broader then most MMOs, due to all the Captain/Ship mixing and matching, it's still a Trinity of sorts. In an MMO no Tank Class is ever going to be as offensively powerful as the DPS Class.
I'm sorry for you that STO is not a Trek series emulator. It's an MMO with a Trek theme, and it's required to have the tropes that MMO players need to play.
Star Trek ships don't work with your beloved trinity.
I have said it a hundred times to you but i won't tell you again.
We don't want the Galaxy class to be OP or becoming a super cruiser.
On the other hand, cryptic made it a extreme Healer/supporter with no means of offense, this is not acceptable.
What i try to accomplish is to convince Cryptics devs to rework that ship so it resembles at least a bit how it is supposed to be.
They did a very good job with the Vesta, the made great work with defiant and intrepid. I just refuse to accept that they made the Galaxy the most passive and toothless ship of them all.
I can live with Cryptic/Mr. Rivera don't likeing the Galaxy for whatever reason, i couldn't care less. But to punish its fans with a practicaly useless ship is just unprofessional IMO.
Try to see it from a game point of view, the Galaxy was supposed to be a front line Explorer. Thus it HAS to be able to defend itself (and the families on board), but this is not possible by tanking an enemy forever. It also has to be at least a bit versatile, to be able to adapt to various mission types and situations, weher NO support or escort is around. Basicly the Galaxy Class should have been the best all round ship in the Game.
I haven't seen anything from the people who want to "protect" STO from OP hero ships when the Vesta came out...
Where where you guys when the Andorian Escort or the Excelsior was released or even the Ambassador?
I haven't read ONE SINGLE WORD from you arguing those ships where too strong.
Again, no one wants the Galaxy Class to become a super ship or even on par with the Odyssey, not to speak of EVERY SINGLE escort in STO.
Now please, you have to understand one thing, for some people the Galaxy Class is the most iconic ship in Star Trek. For some it is even the essence of it.
Seeing such an important ship being just a target practice and having the weakest offenive of all ships in STO is more than alienating...
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I haven't seen anything from the people who want to "protect" STO from OP hero ships when the Vesta came out...
Where where you guys when the Andorian Escort or the Excelsior was released or even the Ambassador?
I haven't read ONE SINGLE WORD from you arguing those ships where too strong.
Actually, I did answer you above about the Excelsior. You just choose to ignore it - as you did my question about 2 tac consoles versus 3 tac console beam-boat Cruisers DPS.
I just recently returned to the forum. I was not here for the Ambassador, Vesta, or Andorian ship discussions. I do not even own them to make any type of true statements about them, but I have had plenty to say about the Excelsior when it was released.
Now please, you have to understand one thing, for some people the Galaxy Class is the most iconic ship in Star Trek. For some it is even the essence of it.
Seeing such an important ship being just a target practice and having the weakest offenive of all ships in STO is more than alienating...
And what you have to understand is that for some other people the Sovereign or Defiant is the most iconic ship in the game. And for others the TOS Connie is the most iconic ship in the game, and so on.
And I will say it again, the Galaxy R of F is not the weakest ship in the game. It's simply just not the best. It can fight its way through STFs just as a Regent or Excelsior can. It might take it a few extra seconds but we're not talking about the difference between success or failure here. You don't auto-succeed because you have a Regent or Excel F and you don't auto-fail because you have a Galaxy R or F.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Or rather it's an attempt by players to show the the TV episodes were fickle, at best - that they were writer-driven rather then based off of hard mechanics. If you are going to base the value of a ship on clips it should include the failures as well as the glories.
And again, there's a difference between not wanting to idolize something and hating it. We don't hate the Galaxy. We simply don't want it to be treated special just because it's a Galaxy.
i don't want it to be special i would accept mediocre
...
And I will say it again, the Galaxy R of F is not the weakest ship in the game. It's simply just not the best. It can fight its way through STFs just as a Regent or Excelsior can. It might take it a few extra seconds but we're not talking about the difference between success or failure here. You don't auto-succeed because you have a Regent or Excel F and you don't auto-fail because you have a Galaxy R or F.
That's just not true. It can't generate as much firepower as a Regent or Excelsior, that's impossible for it.
Can't you see the irony in it, seeing the excelsior for example having much more firepower, or seeing the Ambassador having a much more well-balanced BOFF & Console layout?
I would be perfectly OK if the galaxy had somehow a bit less offensive power than the regent, but Cryptics gave it the LEAST firepower of all cruisers (not that cruisers in general had much offensive capabilities in STO). Everyone who has at least a bit knowledge about this ship knows that it has the biggest Phaser emitter of all ships in Starfleet, it had a unique photon torpedo tube to fire 10 torps in a row at multiple targets.
Cryptic made other ships reflecting their abilities, why not the Galaxy?
In my opinion Cryptic deliberately ignored it, just for the sake of making it a extreme tank.
I don't see a special reason for that, the Galaxy was more than often at the edge of destruction, just as other hero ships too, why is it the Galaxy that became a extreme tank?
i don't want it to be special i would accept mediocre
I agree.
I wouldn't be here if if where similar to the Ambassador -R, which isn't a OP ship at all.
But at least it isn't completely useless, at least for people who are NOT in a premade PvP or STF group.
It (the Galaxy) just doesn't reflect anything that ship is supposed to be capable of. It's just a boring tank, maybe Cryptics superficial devs can't see anything else in it, because they never bothered to look any closer.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
That's just not true. It can't generate as much firepower as a Regent or Excelsior, that's impossible for it.
You do not need absolute firepower to win an STF. You are confusing the idea of "not having the most power" with "not having any power." The Galaxy generates very good firepower, just not the most firepower in the game.
I just watched a video posted to this very forum 2 days ago where a Jem Carrier soloed Infected Elite. Are you telling me that 5 Galaxy Rs or Fs in Infected Elite cannot do what one Jem Carrier could do? Bologna!
A Galaxy brings 8 weapon slots to bear. Their DPS might be a little lower then a Regent's or Excelsior's but it's not the difference between 1,000 damage and 50 damage. Run the numbers.
I can take my Galaxy into Infected and do just as well as if I took my Excelsior. As I said above, it might take me a few extra seconds per encounter but it's not the difference of succeed with one or fail with the other.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
In an MMO Trinity you have the DPS dealer. He is the glass cannon. He can dish-out unrivaled damage that no other Class can come close to equaling but cannot take a lot himself. He constantly needs to be "saved" by the other Classes. Sounds a lot like an Escort, doesn't it?
Then you have the Tank. He can withstand damage that no other Class can endure, but he is only a mid-line damage dealer. His job is to draw aggro and take the beating. His wins are not glorious flurries of explosive power. He wins by outlasting his opponents. Sounds a lot like a Cruiser, doesn't it?
Finally you have the Support. Support's job is to Buff and Debuff. Support slowly weakens foe's shields and resistance, allowing allies to do more damage, while buffing allies. Sounds a lot like a Science Vessel, doesn't it?
And while STO's Trinity is broader then most MMOs, due to all the Captain/Ship mixing and matching, it's still a Trinity of sorts. In an MMO no Tank Class is ever going to be as offensively powerful as the DPS Class.
I'm sorry for you that STO is not a Trek series emulator. It's an MMO with a Trek theme, and it's required to have the tropes that MMO players need to play.
Even the most popular trinity game World of ******** doesnt have 100% dedicated tank or healers. These are called hybrids, as in the ability to do more than one task.
So if people want trinity, then engineers and science should come under that term, a hybrid, and therefore should do 5% less dps (world of ******** hybrid tax) than escorts.
Having engineers and science pushed into a role wont work, especially when people made their characters when the game started where balance was in better shape.
You do not need absolute firepower to win an STF. You are confusing the idea of "not having the most power" with "not having any power." The Galaxy generates very good firepower, just not the most firepower in the game.
One single tac Lt, and just two tac Consoles are the least offensive ANY Cruiser in STO has.
The Galaxy was not built that way, it had the strongest Phasers in it's time (which includes the Excelsior and the Ambassador). Giving it the LEAST firepower just shows the ignorance of some devs.
Can't you understand that making it an extreme tank is just wrong and not even remotely like that ship is supposed to be?
I just watched a video posted to this very forum 2 days ago where a Jem Carrier soloed Infected Elite. Are you telling me that 5 Galaxy Rs or Fs in Infected Elite cannot do what one Jem Carrier could do? Bologna!
what are you talking about?
So you need 5 Galaxy classes to do the job ONE single Jem hadar Carrier is capable of?
Lol, that's what i call game balancing.
A Galaxy brings 8 weapon slots to bear. Their DPS might be a little lower then a Regent's or Excelsior's but it's not the difference between 1,000 damage and 50 damage. Run the numbers.
Believe it or not, but i have been flying the Galaxy a few times an i know where it strenghts and weaknesses are.
My point since 50 pages is, that the Galaxy -R we have in STO does not correspond with the Galaxy class at all. It is like giving the Defiant a BOFF & console Layout of a RSV, or a Nebula.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Believe it or not, but i have been flying the Galaxy a few times an i know where it strenghts and weaknesses are.
Believe it or not I have an absolute feeling that you have NO IDEA what the DPS numerical differences are between 2 tac consoles or 3. You simply see more and think MUCH MORE. You see 3 and think that means the ship is 50% more powerful than 2, or some other nonsense.
If you are failing in STFs using your Galaxy then its entirely because of you, not the ship.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Believe it or not I have an absolute feeling that you have NO IDEA what the DPS numerical differences are between 2 tac consoles or 3. You simply see more and think MUCH MORE. You see 3 and think that means the ship is 50% more powerful than 2, or some other nonsense.
If you are failing in STFs using your Galaxy then its entirely because of you, not the ship.
Who's talking about STF all the time?
You.
I have never said i would fail in it, or anything like that.
I'm sorry but if your tactic is to get personal as soon as your argument won't work, we should stop discussing right now.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I have never said i would fail in it, or anything like that.
I'm sorry but if your tactic is to get personal as soon as your argument won't work, we should stop discussing right now.
No one is getting personal. The point is that how powerful an end-game ship might be is only important as the actual end-game it is being used in. If you are never using your 4 tac console Galaxy then what's the importance of having it?
STO's end-game is generally not that difficult, even on Elite. As I pointed out above, a single ship did some of it. The Galaxy R and F can both do the STFs without difficulty. More power would simply mean you did it a few seconds faster. More power is not the difference between success or failure for the ship. The only way the ship would fail STO's end-game is if the players failed.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
i was flying a gal-r as my main for about 2 years up until the ambassador came out. the ambassador is a better tank/team healer and better contributes to damage as being a tank/healer in this game is unneeded when i can tank just as well in a defiant witch i also have and use form time to time
oddly if the galaxy had a universal ensign and got rid of the over bloated engineer powers it could get a better power synergy going. and if it had the universal ensign i could live with the 2 tack consoles as i would probably use the universal for a sci power but to have the option of a another tack power would be nice
idk maybe i am doing something wrong i do not claim to be the best at this game but my gal-r has this set up
and the increase in damage is easy read the console 1 blue mkxi is 18% more damage tac consoles do not have a diminishing returns on them. so that is 18% less damage you could be contributing to the team if you used ANY OTHER cruiser (besides some oddys or the star cruiser but they have a better boff seating to make up for it)
and do not say "but you are suppose to heal" when healing is pointless in the end game when my defiant only has 10,000 less hull and 700 less shields
STO's end-game is generally not that difficult, even on Elite. As I pointed out above, a single ship did some of it. The Galaxy R and F can both do the STFs without difficulty. More power would simply mean you did it a few seconds faster. More power is not the difference between success or failure for the ship. The only way the ship would fail STO's end-game is if the players failed.
The difference is one thing is right the other wrong.
The Galaxy -R is just made wrong, too little offensive but extreme defensive in the meantime.
It is like giving a Defiant the BOFF & Console layout of a Nebula, surely you CAN do all endgame stuff, but what's the point in choosing a ship if it's made completely wrong?
Not only that, it is just freaking BORING to fly it.
The "real" Galaxy Class from the shows didn't have it's huge phaser beam array just to tickle an enemy to death. At least in theory.
Surely the Galaxy Class was never shown in too bright light in combat, because SFX was too expensive at it's time, and as soon as it become cheaper they introduced the Sovereign... :mad:
But that's no reason to illustrate it as being just a flying brick with the LEAST offensive of all Starfleet ships. Why not the Nebula, it was stated as inferior to the Galaxy Class, and even the Nebula was able to slice through Cardassian Galors a is they where butter.
We never saw a Federation Starbase in Combat and yet no one opposes to Starbase 234 in the Tau Dewa sector misson, you know why? Because it's just comon sense.
Do you get my point?
No one wants her to become OP, but the Galaxy -R in STO just doesn't deserve to be displayed as inferior compared the Excelsior, Ambassador any other ship in the game.
Yeah, i know it can tank.... but what else?
It cant move, it can't fire back (at least in PvP). So it's just a flying target practice for enemy escorts.
Any engame Cruiser can tank in a STF, if you know how to do it. That's not the point, it is about what can you do with your ship besides that?
Heck, they could even make it a science focussed cruiser, i wouldn't care as long as it isn't the most passive ship anymore. I hope that's understandable....
What is that Galaxy -F, you talking about all the time?
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
No one is getting personal. The point is that how powerful an end-game ship might be is only important as the actual end-game it is being used in. If you are never using your 4 tac console Galaxy then what's the importance of having it?
STO's end-game is generally not that difficult, even on Elite. As I pointed out above, a single ship did some of it. The Galaxy R and F can both do the STFs without difficulty. More power would simply mean you did it a few seconds faster. More power is not the difference between success or failure for the ship. The only way the ship would fail STO's end-game is if the players failed.
When you have a timer counting down and have to be done by that time then DPS is what matters. My defiant can tank quite well and i can blow the TRIBBLE out of an STF without much difficulty. Now the Galaxy can survive alittle better but it takes quite a bit longer to kill the same targets using it. The problem here is most escorts can survive just fine and do great damage without the need of heals aslong as the captain of it knows how to or has the progress to outfit it right. This kind of kills the need for support roles. Tank and healer in PVE are not really a needed thing even in STF's. Quite frankly I don't mind that it doesnt exist here as it would just turn the game into another useless trinity and the queues would have to be redone to reflect the need of said trinity.
The whole point is that the Galaxy needs to be redone not cause it can't bring the dps but because it doesn't bring it or anything else useful to an STF. Its console setup and boff slots make it least wanted t5 ship or close in any STF. I taken mine into a regular STF and actually had ppl complain and at times quit for whatever reason cause they thought I'd be useless. I havent seen the same in any other ship whether it was a science ship an escort or another cruiser. The combo of the problems mentioned here in this thread and the fact that current beams are not able to dps as well as cannons engineer slots share to many cooldowns all go against the galaxy performance.
The Galaxy can be geared out to be a good ship as a healer or a tank, but all the other cruisers can fill those roles better and bring more damage to the table or have better boff powers to be more useful.
What is that Galaxy -F, you talking about all the time?
Fleet Galaxy...
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
When you have a timer counting down and have to be done by that time then DPS is what matters. My defiant can tank quite well and i can blow the TRIBBLE out of an STF without much difficulty. Now the Galaxy can survive alittle better but it takes quite a bit longer to kill the same targets using it. The problem here is most escorts can survive just fine and do great damage without the need of heals aslong as the captain of it knows how to or has the progress to outfit it right. This kind of kills the need for support roles. Tank and healer in PVE are not really a needed thing even in STF's. Quite frankly I don't mind that it doesnt exist here as it would just turn the game into another useless trinity and the queues would have to be redone to reflect the need of said trinity.
The whole point is that the Galaxy needs to be redone not cause it can't bring the dps but because it doesn't bring it or anything else useful to an STF. Its console setup and boff slots make it least wanted t5 ship or close in any STF. I taken mine into a regular STF and actually had ppl complain and at times quit for whatever reason cause they thought I'd be useless. I havent seen the same in any other ship whether it was a science ship an escort or another cruiser. The combo of the problems mentioned here in this thread and the fact that current beams are not able to dps as well as cannons engineer slots share to many cooldowns all go against the galaxy performance.
The Galaxy can be geared out to be a good ship as a healer or a tank, but all the other cruisers can fill those roles better and bring more damage to the table or have better boff powers to be more useful.
The issue you're describing is a Cruiser issue, not a Galaxy issue. You have the same timer problem whether you're using a Galaxy F or Sovereign. An extra tac console doesn't add that much difference to DPS to make this huge Cruiser difference.
If phasers do 200 DPS then an extra tac console is simply adding 40 more DPS - assuming a 20% bonus. Compound that by 6 or 8 beams and you're only talking 320 maximum additional DPS to your beams. Against a 100,000 HP foe it's only subtracting a few seconds from the encounter.
No one is arguing the idea that DPS is king in end-game, but that's the fault of the end-game desing, not the ships. The difference between a Galaxy F and a Sovereign F is no where near the difference between a Cruiser and an Escort. 5 Escorts instead of a mixed team subtracts minutes but substituting in a Galaxy for an Excelsior is a negligible time difference.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
oh look, its the stupidest argument ever again. i can complete all pve in a galaxy so it might be fine! PLEASE, i can complete all pve in a shuttle, or a tos connie, or anything really, completing pve is no benchmark for proving anything.
it is categorically the WORST ship in the game, not just worst cruiser, worst ship. its got the worst movement stats, the worst station setup, and the worst console setup for doing anything. its the worst cruiser at dealing pressure damage, tanking and supporting.
ITS NOT FINE. no ship should be the worst, all ships have their niche and primary purpose. the galaxy niche is to be the worst ship in the game though, its a crime against star trek
ITS NOT FINE. no ship should be the worst, all ships have their niche and primary purpose. the galaxy niche is to be the worst ship in the game though, its a crime against star trek
But when you have so many ships - especially all the clustered Fleet ships - how can one not be the worst? Something is always going to need to be the worst. They can't all be equally bad.
Yes, maybe the Galaxy should have better stats due to its iconic nature, but my point all along is that it's still quite playable even with its current stats. Using the Galaxy doesn't automatically mean you fail in PvE.
Yes, it's stupid that the Excelsior and Ambassador both have better Fleet stats - assuming DPS is your criteria for deciding best - but it seems to me that what needs to be fixed is decreasing their stats rather then making the Galaxy exponentially better.
In my canonical mind the Odyssey should be the best Cruiser, the Sovereign the second best, and the Galaxy the third best - and the stats should reflect that. Within the context of those 3 ships I do believe the stats due reflect that. It just gets wonky because of the Excelsior and Ambassador, IMO.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I do understand your point, but for crying out loud this is the Enterprise, the backbone of Star Trek for decades and it sucks in just about every department unless you want to make a zombie cruiser or RP. It is indeed criminal and I for one am quite astonished that CBS would allow it to be so ****e.
Yes, but not every Galaxy is the Enterprise - I say as I remember the Yamato, Odyssey, and Challenger being destroyed.
What made the Enterprise special was the crew, not the ship. It's sort of like saying that you can have a Galaxy in the game with white Boffs and Doffs or you can have one slotted full of Purple Boffs and Doffs. Which one will be better?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
The issue you're describing is a Cruiser issue, not a Galaxy issue. You have the same timer problem whether you're using a Galaxy F or Sovereign. An extra tac console doesn't add that much difference to DPS to make this huge Cruiser difference.
If phasers do 200 DPS then an extra tac console is simply adding 40 more DPS - assuming a 20% bonus. Compound that by 6 or 8 beams and you're only talking 320 maximum additional DPS to your beams. Against a 100,000 HP foe it's only subtracting a few seconds from the encounter.
No one is arguing the idea that DPS is king in end-game, but that's the fault of the end-game desing, not the ships. The difference between a Galaxy F and a Sovereign F is no where near the difference between a Cruiser and an Escort. 5 Escorts instead of a mixed team subtracts minutes but substituting in a Galaxy for an Excelsior is a negligible time difference.
Personally i do notice a big difference between a Assault Cruiser and a Galaxy -R when flying. Additionally being able to use a second (tt occupies already one) Tac power is unequal more usefuly than a ansign engineering. Not to say that an ensign Tactical would be so great at all, but it is still much better compared to the galaxy -R engineering ensign. You just have more possibilities to act instead of just sitting there and take a beating.
I personally do use a Mirror Assault Cruiser, as long as the Galaxy is in this miserable state. And even if the differences aren't that big according to you, flying it feels completely different.
More maneuverability, one more tac power minus one useless engineering power, PLUS one additional tactical console. At least for me it is a completely diffferent ship.
If the Galaxy -R had all this, i had NOTHING to complain about, even though it wouldn't be a top of the line ship at all.
I have no idea what your criteria are when choosing a ship, but mine are mainly about it's meaning and what i associate with that ship and not at least what it looks like. And there, the Galaxy is no.1 for me.
Now the problem is that EVERY other cruiser (and ship) are more useful than the Galaxy R+F. Just to be able to tank is not enough, every other ship can do this just as well or even better.
I hope you understand my point now, this is not about making the Galaxy -R or -F a Oddyssey 2.0, but to make it at least useful and a bit less passive and maybe a bit more fun to fly.
I have no idea, how often i have written this in the last several days. Still you keep ignoring it and argue about NOT to make the Galaxy too strong or whatever.
So i would say, lets just make the Galaxy R and F Engineering ensign and Science ensign into one universal Lt. and give he ship an additional universal Console slot.
Everyone could be happy with it, people who are already happy with the ship, but also everyone who want a more versatile ship.
Of course, you wouldn't.
ITS NOT FINE. no ship should be the worst, all ships have their niche and primary purpose. the galaxy niche is to be the worst ship in the game though, its a crime against star trek
EXACTLY!
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Finally you have the Support. Support's job is to Buff and Debuff. Support slowly weakens foe's shields and resistance, allowing allies to do more damage, while buffing allies. Sounds a lot like a Science Vessel, doesn't it?
Not really. The debuffs in this game have been significantly weakened over the past three years. And the buffs are usually covered in Engineering as much as they are in Science. I mean, I guess sensor sweep and subnucleonic beam are a buff and debuff with good impact, but those are science captain skills and a science captain can hop in a different ship and still bring those to the encounter.
The most oft used science powers these days are Polarize Hull, Hazard Emitters and Gravity Well. Two of them are easily accessible by any ship and the third has been de-fanged significantly.
Debuffs like Energy Siphon, Tachyon Beam. Tyken's Rift, they get shrugged off in end-game encounters. I guess charged particle burst still has some bite. So there is that.
Crowd Control abilities have been continually defanged since day 1. They still have some use, but don't really contribute to the efficiency of PVE end-game.
Science these days is really all about Hazard Emitters and Polarize Hull, and even a huge fan of the science ships (my first level 50 got there solely through science ships waaaaay back when and I still stubbornly fly the Retro Intrepid with that character, when I do play him), realizes that I don't bring much to the table. It's not even that I want to do damage in the ship. I just am not sure what I do to help get things done better.
Science has a lot of problems right now. It needs some developer attention, as it needs to find its role, its place in the game. I'm not sure the development team knows what to do with science anymore. Back in beta, Jack Emmert was all about science being crowd control, debuffing, space magic. But since launch, Jack's gone and done other projects and those left steering the game forward haven't had much of a clear vision for the science ship and how it functions in the game.
This is fine for levelling. The path from 1 to 50 can be done in any ship. And fans of the Nova, Intrepid, Oberth, Olympic, they can take that journey and have fun. But the end-game grinds, reputation, dilithium, marks, it really does push the science vessel towards the edge of disuse.
I'm veering WAY off topic though. This thread is about the Galaxy and how well it functions in that same end-game. Heh. Sorry for my rant. I just don't know what the solution is. I think BOFF powers and shared cooldowns and what science, engineering and tactical do really needs someone with some big picture thinking to take a look at. Not sure they have that type of big picture view on staff right now. So like when one dev (who takes a lot of heat on the forums) says something like beams are WAD ... I think he's right. From a certain point of view (oh yeah, Kenobi reference! Whoops!) ... But when players counter with how things are in game and in their experience I think they have a very good point as well. The big picture, it's fuzzy right now. And slanted. Not sure who can fix it or how.
if i remember right the yamato was destroyed do to a computer virus do to aliens infiltrating starfleet HQ in the season one ender
and then never heard from again
i completely forget how the challenger was lost
The Yamato was destroyed by a iconian computer program which was icompatible to Federation Hardware/Sorftwae technobabble stuff. (TNG: "Contagion")
Every other ship would have bee destroyed by thist just easy, the defiant, Intrepid, excelsior and so on.
Most of the arguments brought up by Galaxy class haters to "proof" how weak the Galaxy is supposed to be, can easily be applied to almost any other starfleet ship.
Anyway, i haven't read the book that feature the Vesta class, but i can't imagine that the Vesta was illustrated as even better than Cryptic made it.
So why is it so hard to accept to look at the Galaxy Classes positiv sides and make it a ship that isn't so much embarrassing?
I can't find any other canon ship in STO which has been made purely to show its weak/boring side?
Obviously Cryptics devs didn't came to the idea to show that ships positive sides once in a while?
Other ships, like the Akira, Vesta or Excelsior have been made with much more care for it's fans and the ship itself.
I don't think that the Vestas special consoles have been made because the devs had nothing else to do. It was for the fans!
So even if a comparable unpopular ship like the Vesta can get so many special features abilities and even special weapons, why has the Galaxy Class to be in such a miserable state?
Where is the special console for the Galaxys huge phaser emitter arrray, its high-capacity deflector shield grid, where its 10 shot photon torpedo launcher, Metaphasic shield and so on. where is it?
If you think about the iconic status of the Galaxy Class i find it just incomprehensible we don't have such feature for it.
Other iconic ships like the Sovereign (Assault Cruiser) already have a "special" version, like the (Fleet) Regent Class, for example.
In my opinion they just put the Galaxy Class into the game to be able to show it once in a while on some promo pictures or other exhibit opportunities, just to attract some more people. While making it the most boring ship in the game.
And the funny thing is, some people are actually happy with a crappy ship like this.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
It's clear that "someone cosmic" is more than happy with the Galaxy being the weakest T5 cruiser in the game. It's not? Please, I would love your opinion on which T5 cruiser is weaker in overall performance than the Galaxy. On second thought, no I wouldn't because I will disagree. The Galaxy is the weakest T5 cruiser in STO. Anyone who spends time with cruisers and is reasonable will tell you the same thing.
I replied to this thread to add my voice to the masses asking for change to the current state of the Galaxy. Some have come here, to pick an argument because they like the ship being in the gimped position it is in. That's fine, grats, you already have your way. To come into a thread asking for changes to be made to the Galaxy and say "nope, it's fine the way it is" is not helping a cause but is JUST BEING ARGUMENTATIVE for the pure sake of it. Not to mention going back and forth with the other posters. Trying to win a argument over the internet? Good luck with that. You know who I am addressing.
All that being said, this thread should die and those of us who desire reasonable changes be made to get the Galaxy up to the T5 par should instead focus our efforts on the inbox of one Dan Stahl. dstahl@crypticstudios.com
The Yamato was destroyed by a iconian computer program which was icompatible to Federation Hardware/Sorftwae technobabble stuff. (TNG: "Contagion")
Every other ship would have bee destroyed by thist just easy, the defiant, Intrepid, excelsior and so on.
Most of the arguments brought up by Galaxy class haters to "proof" how weak the Galaxy is supposed to be, can easily be applied to almost any other starfleet ship.
Did you even read what I wrote?
Let me rephrase it then. The Enterprise was a Galaxy. It was no different than the Yamato, Odyssey, or Challenger. What made it different was its CREW. The caliber of the people on the Enterprise was higher.
The virus destroyed the Yamato because its CREW was not good enough to avoid the destruction. The Enterprise's CREW was good enough to save the ship.
In STO terms the Boffs and Doffs are the CREW. You slot the right Purple Doffs and you can do things you cannot imagine doing with White Doffs. You slot Purple Boffs with the right Traits and you get much better bonuses on your ship beyond just the Boff abilities.
The Enterprise was a Galaxy Class ship, but it had the best CREW in the fleet. IE, they were all Purples. Except maybe Riker. Every time he was in command of the Enterprise it was defeated or captured.
Anyway, i haven't read the book that feature the Vesta class, but i can't imagine that the Vesta was illustrated as even better than Cryptic made it.
So why is it so hard to accept to look at the Galaxy Classes positiv sides and make it a ship that isn't so much embarrassing?
The Vesta in the novels was a next generation ship (next gen as in next level of technology) designed to deal with the Borg; and I think most people would consider the Vesta build to be weaker then what the books represented.
Of course the Vesta in game is a Science Vessel and only has 6 weapon slots, so unless you really believe 6 weapons are better than 8 I'm beginning to think you don't actually look at ships as a whole. You simply look at tac consoles and tac boffs and make all your decisions from that.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
To come into a thread asking for changes to be made to the Galaxy and say "nope, it's fine the way it is" is not helping a cause but is JUST BEING ARGUMENTATIVE for the pure sake of it.
You do understand that the concept of democracy means that for every person who says they want X someone else has the right to say they do not want X, right?
This game has a LOT of issues; and how powerful the Galaxy should be is well down on the list of things which need fixed. If the ship were unplayable it would be an issue, but saying the ship is not as good as you want it to be is just fan-boyism, IMO. The ship is very playable. One of my VAs flies a Galaxy with a Venture skin. I have no issues using the character in STFs or other end-game content. It's not unplayable - unless you only want to PvP.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Yes, but not every Galaxy is the Enterprise - I say as I remember the Yamato, Odyssey, and Challenger being destroyed.
What made the Enterprise special was the crew, not the ship. It's sort of like saying that you can have a Galaxy in the game with white Boffs and Doffs or you can have one slotted full of Purple Boffs and Doffs. Which one will be better?
The Challenger was never destroyed. According to back ground information the only three Galaxy-class starships confirmed to be destroyed were the Yamato; destroyed by a foreign computer virus, that would have also destroyed the Enterprise had they not been given hints to it before hand; the Odyssey was destroyed by an unknown enemy with superior technology at the time, and also that the writers wished to show that even the Enterprise-D would stand no chance in the same situation; and finally the Enterprise-D. I'd say the Enterprise-D failing against an inferior enemy ship, and crew incompetence, makes the latter part of the argument invalid.
The Challenger was never destroyed. According to back ground information the only three Galaxy-class starships confirmed to be destroyed were the Yamato; destroyed by a foreign computer virus, that would have also destroyed the Enterprise had they not been given hints to it before hand; the Odyssey, which was destroyed by an unknown enemy with superior technology at the time; and finally the Enterprise-D. I'd say the Enterprise-D failing against an inferior enemy ship, and crew incompetence, makes the latter part of the argument invalid.
Don't forget the Galaxies destroyed during the Dominion War. I am sure there was a Galaxy or two at the Chintoka garrison, and I am positive there were Galaxies in the assault fleet sent to retake Chintoka, both sets ended up running into the Breen and were destroyed. I am also sure that there were a few destroyed in "What You Leave Behind", since Admiral Ross did comment that they had lost a 3rd of their ships, and considering the size of the invasion fleet, I am sure that at least a few of them were Galaxy Class starships.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Don't forget the Galaxies destroyed during the Dominion War. I am sure there was a Galaxy or two at the Chintoka garrison, and I am positive there were Galaxies in the assault fleet sent to retake Chintoka, both sets ended up running into the Breen and were destroyed. I am also sure that there were a few destroyed in "What You Leave Behind", since Admiral Ross did comment that they had lost a 3rd of their ships, and considering the size of the invasion fleet, I am sure that at least a few of them were Galaxy Class starships.
The USS Galaxy takes heavy damage in the initial battle to take Chintoka, however that ship is also present at the relief fleet to aid the Enterprise-E In Nemesis, so it survived the Dominion War. Not sure about the final battle in the series finale, however there doesn't appear to be any Galaxy-class starships shown on screen in the fleet that is destroyed by the Breen at Chintoka, a few Nebula-class starships were there though, so it'd be a little difficult to tell their debris from a Galaxy-class.
Comments
But "godlike firepower" and "general badassery" are the Defiant's calling card. We are told its powerful and we're SHOWN its powerful. We are constantly told the Galaxy was a powerful ship, but we're constantly shown how most of the wacky alien ships of the week totally neutralize it with little effort.
Star Trek ships don't work with your beloved trinity.
I have said it a hundred times to you but i won't tell you again.
We don't want the Galaxy class to be OP or becoming a super cruiser.
On the other hand, cryptic made it a extreme Healer/supporter with no means of offense, this is not acceptable.
What i try to accomplish is to convince Cryptics devs to rework that ship so it resembles at least a bit how it is supposed to be.
They did a very good job with the Vesta, the made great work with defiant and intrepid. I just refuse to accept that they made the Galaxy the most passive and toothless ship of them all.
I can live with Cryptic/Mr. Rivera don't likeing the Galaxy for whatever reason, i couldn't care less. But to punish its fans with a practicaly useless ship is just unprofessional IMO.
Try to see it from a game point of view, the Galaxy was supposed to be a front line Explorer. Thus it HAS to be able to defend itself (and the families on board), but this is not possible by tanking an enemy forever. It also has to be at least a bit versatile, to be able to adapt to various mission types and situations, weher NO support or escort is around. Basicly the Galaxy Class should have been the best all round ship in the Game.
I haven't seen anything from the people who want to "protect" STO from OP hero ships when the Vesta came out...
Where where you guys when the Andorian Escort or the Excelsior was released or even the Ambassador?
I haven't read ONE SINGLE WORD from you arguing those ships where too strong.
Again, no one wants the Galaxy Class to become a super ship or even on par with the Odyssey, not to speak of EVERY SINGLE escort in STO.
Now please, you have to understand one thing, for some people the Galaxy Class is the most iconic ship in Star Trek. For some it is even the essence of it.
Seeing such an important ship being just a target practice and having the weakest offenive of all ships in STO is more than alienating...
I just recently returned to the forum. I was not here for the Ambassador, Vesta, or Andorian ship discussions. I do not even own them to make any type of true statements about them, but I have had plenty to say about the Excelsior when it was released.
And what you have to understand is that for some other people the Sovereign or Defiant is the most iconic ship in the game. And for others the TOS Connie is the most iconic ship in the game, and so on.
And I will say it again, the Galaxy R of F is not the weakest ship in the game. It's simply just not the best. It can fight its way through STFs just as a Regent or Excelsior can. It might take it a few extra seconds but we're not talking about the difference between success or failure here. You don't auto-succeed because you have a Regent or Excel F and you don't auto-fail because you have a Galaxy R or F.
i don't want it to be special i would accept mediocre
Can't you see the irony in it, seeing the excelsior for example having much more firepower, or seeing the Ambassador having a much more well-balanced BOFF & Console layout?
I would be perfectly OK if the galaxy had somehow a bit less offensive power than the regent, but Cryptics gave it the LEAST firepower of all cruisers (not that cruisers in general had much offensive capabilities in STO). Everyone who has at least a bit knowledge about this ship knows that it has the biggest Phaser emitter of all ships in Starfleet, it had a unique photon torpedo tube to fire 10 torps in a row at multiple targets.
Cryptic made other ships reflecting their abilities, why not the Galaxy?
In my opinion Cryptic deliberately ignored it, just for the sake of making it a extreme tank.
I don't see a special reason for that, the Galaxy was more than often at the edge of destruction, just as other hero ships too, why is it the Galaxy that became a extreme tank? I agree.
I wouldn't be here if if where similar to the Ambassador -R, which isn't a OP ship at all.
But at least it isn't completely useless, at least for people who are NOT in a premade PvP or STF group.
It (the Galaxy) just doesn't reflect anything that ship is supposed to be capable of. It's just a boring tank, maybe Cryptics superficial devs can't see anything else in it, because they never bothered to look any closer.
I just watched a video posted to this very forum 2 days ago where a Jem Carrier soloed Infected Elite. Are you telling me that 5 Galaxy Rs or Fs in Infected Elite cannot do what one Jem Carrier could do? Bologna!
A Galaxy brings 8 weapon slots to bear. Their DPS might be a little lower then a Regent's or Excelsior's but it's not the difference between 1,000 damage and 50 damage. Run the numbers.
I can take my Galaxy into Infected and do just as well as if I took my Excelsior. As I said above, it might take me a few extra seconds per encounter but it's not the difference of succeed with one or fail with the other.
Even the most popular trinity game World of ******** doesnt have 100% dedicated tank or healers. These are called hybrids, as in the ability to do more than one task.
So if people want trinity, then engineers and science should come under that term, a hybrid, and therefore should do 5% less dps (world of ******** hybrid tax) than escorts.
Having engineers and science pushed into a role wont work, especially when people made their characters when the game started where balance was in better shape.
The Galaxy was not built that way, it had the strongest Phasers in it's time (which includes the Excelsior and the Ambassador). Giving it the LEAST firepower just shows the ignorance of some devs.
Can't you understand that making it an extreme tank is just wrong and not even remotely like that ship is supposed to be?
what are you talking about?
So you need 5 Galaxy classes to do the job ONE single Jem hadar Carrier is capable of?
Lol, that's what i call game balancing.
Believe it or not, but i have been flying the Galaxy a few times an i know where it strenghts and weaknesses are.
My point since 50 pages is, that the Galaxy -R we have in STO does not correspond with the Galaxy class at all. It is like giving the Defiant a BOFF & console Layout of a RSV, or a Nebula.
I.t. i.s. m.a.d.e. j.u.s.t. w.r.o.n.g. p.e.r.i.o.d.
If you are failing in STFs using your Galaxy then its entirely because of you, not the ship.
You.
I have never said i would fail in it, or anything like that.
I'm sorry but if your tactic is to get personal as soon as your argument won't work, we should stop discussing right now.
STO's end-game is generally not that difficult, even on Elite. As I pointed out above, a single ship did some of it. The Galaxy R and F can both do the STFs without difficulty. More power would simply mean you did it a few seconds faster. More power is not the difference between success or failure for the ship. The only way the ship would fail STO's end-game is if the players failed.
oddly if the galaxy had a universal ensign and got rid of the over bloated engineer powers it could get a better power synergy going. and if it had the universal ensign i could live with the 2 tack consoles as i would probably use the universal for a sci power but to have the option of a another tack power would be nice
idk maybe i am doing something wrong i do not claim to be the best at this game but my gal-r has this set up
Lt. Tac: TT1, APB2
Commander Eng: EPTS1, EPTW2, EPTS3, Aux2SIF
Lt. Com eng: ET1, RSP2, aceton beam1
Ensign eng: EPTW1
Lt. Sci: TSS1, HE2
and the increase in damage is easy read the console 1 blue mkxi is 18% more damage tac consoles do not have a diminishing returns on them. so that is 18% less damage you could be contributing to the team if you used ANY OTHER cruiser (besides some oddys or the star cruiser but they have a better boff seating to make up for it)
and do not say "but you are suppose to heal" when healing is pointless in the end game when my defiant only has 10,000 less hull and 700 less shields
The Galaxy -R is just made wrong, too little offensive but extreme defensive in the meantime.
It is like giving a Defiant the BOFF & Console layout of a Nebula, surely you CAN do all endgame stuff, but what's the point in choosing a ship if it's made completely wrong?
Not only that, it is just freaking BORING to fly it.
The "real" Galaxy Class from the shows didn't have it's huge phaser beam array just to tickle an enemy to death. At least in theory.
Surely the Galaxy Class was never shown in too bright light in combat, because SFX was too expensive at it's time, and as soon as it become cheaper they introduced the Sovereign... :mad:
But that's no reason to illustrate it as being just a flying brick with the LEAST offensive of all Starfleet ships. Why not the Nebula, it was stated as inferior to the Galaxy Class, and even the Nebula was able to slice through Cardassian Galors a is they where butter.
We never saw a Federation Starbase in Combat and yet no one opposes to Starbase 234 in the Tau Dewa sector misson, you know why? Because it's just comon sense.
Do you get my point?
No one wants her to become OP, but the Galaxy -R in STO just doesn't deserve to be displayed as inferior compared the Excelsior, Ambassador any other ship in the game.
Yeah, i know it can tank.... but what else?
It cant move, it can't fire back (at least in PvP). So it's just a flying target practice for enemy escorts.
Any engame Cruiser can tank in a STF, if you know how to do it. That's not the point, it is about what can you do with your ship besides that?
Heck, they could even make it a science focussed cruiser, i wouldn't care as long as it isn't the most passive ship anymore. I hope that's understandable....
What is that Galaxy -F, you talking about all the time?
When you have a timer counting down and have to be done by that time then DPS is what matters. My defiant can tank quite well and i can blow the TRIBBLE out of an STF without much difficulty. Now the Galaxy can survive alittle better but it takes quite a bit longer to kill the same targets using it. The problem here is most escorts can survive just fine and do great damage without the need of heals aslong as the captain of it knows how to or has the progress to outfit it right. This kind of kills the need for support roles. Tank and healer in PVE are not really a needed thing even in STF's. Quite frankly I don't mind that it doesnt exist here as it would just turn the game into another useless trinity and the queues would have to be redone to reflect the need of said trinity.
The whole point is that the Galaxy needs to be redone not cause it can't bring the dps but because it doesn't bring it or anything else useful to an STF. Its console setup and boff slots make it least wanted t5 ship or close in any STF. I taken mine into a regular STF and actually had ppl complain and at times quit for whatever reason cause they thought I'd be useless. I havent seen the same in any other ship whether it was a science ship an escort or another cruiser. The combo of the problems mentioned here in this thread and the fact that current beams are not able to dps as well as cannons engineer slots share to many cooldowns all go against the galaxy performance.
The Galaxy can be geared out to be a good ship as a healer or a tank, but all the other cruisers can fill those roles better and bring more damage to the table or have better boff powers to be more useful.
If phasers do 200 DPS then an extra tac console is simply adding 40 more DPS - assuming a 20% bonus. Compound that by 6 or 8 beams and you're only talking 320 maximum additional DPS to your beams. Against a 100,000 HP foe it's only subtracting a few seconds from the encounter.
No one is arguing the idea that DPS is king in end-game, but that's the fault of the end-game desing, not the ships. The difference between a Galaxy F and a Sovereign F is no where near the difference between a Cruiser and an Escort. 5 Escorts instead of a mixed team subtracts minutes but substituting in a Galaxy for an Excelsior is a negligible time difference.
it is categorically the WORST ship in the game, not just worst cruiser, worst ship. its got the worst movement stats, the worst station setup, and the worst console setup for doing anything. its the worst cruiser at dealing pressure damage, tanking and supporting.
ITS NOT FINE. no ship should be the worst, all ships have their niche and primary purpose. the galaxy niche is to be the worst ship in the game though, its a crime against star trek
Yes, maybe the Galaxy should have better stats due to its iconic nature, but my point all along is that it's still quite playable even with its current stats. Using the Galaxy doesn't automatically mean you fail in PvE.
Yes, it's stupid that the Excelsior and Ambassador both have better Fleet stats - assuming DPS is your criteria for deciding best - but it seems to me that what needs to be fixed is decreasing their stats rather then making the Galaxy exponentially better.
In my canonical mind the Odyssey should be the best Cruiser, the Sovereign the second best, and the Galaxy the third best - and the stats should reflect that. Within the context of those 3 ships I do believe the stats due reflect that. It just gets wonky because of the Excelsior and Ambassador, IMO.
What made the Enterprise special was the crew, not the ship. It's sort of like saying that you can have a Galaxy in the game with white Boffs and Doffs or you can have one slotted full of Purple Boffs and Doffs. Which one will be better?
I personally do use a Mirror Assault Cruiser, as long as the Galaxy is in this miserable state. And even if the differences aren't that big according to you, flying it feels completely different.
More maneuverability, one more tac power minus one useless engineering power, PLUS one additional tactical console. At least for me it is a completely diffferent ship.
If the Galaxy -R had all this, i had NOTHING to complain about, even though it wouldn't be a top of the line ship at all.
I have no idea what your criteria are when choosing a ship, but mine are mainly about it's meaning and what i associate with that ship and not at least what it looks like. And there, the Galaxy is no.1 for me.
Now the problem is that EVERY other cruiser (and ship) are more useful than the Galaxy R+F. Just to be able to tank is not enough, every other ship can do this just as well or even better.
I hope you understand my point now, this is not about making the Galaxy -R or -F a Oddyssey 2.0, but to make it at least useful and a bit less passive and maybe a bit more fun to fly.
I have no idea, how often i have written this in the last several days. Still you keep ignoring it and argue about NOT to make the Galaxy too strong or whatever.
So i would say, lets just make the Galaxy R and F Engineering ensign and Science ensign into one universal Lt. and give he ship an additional universal Console slot.
Everyone could be happy with it, people who are already happy with the ship, but also everyone who want a more versatile ship.
Of course, you wouldn't.
EXACTLY!
and then never heard from again
:edit it was an iconian virus not the season ender like i thought
i completely forget how the challenger was lost
Not really. The debuffs in this game have been significantly weakened over the past three years. And the buffs are usually covered in Engineering as much as they are in Science. I mean, I guess sensor sweep and subnucleonic beam are a buff and debuff with good impact, but those are science captain skills and a science captain can hop in a different ship and still bring those to the encounter.
The most oft used science powers these days are Polarize Hull, Hazard Emitters and Gravity Well. Two of them are easily accessible by any ship and the third has been de-fanged significantly.
Debuffs like Energy Siphon, Tachyon Beam. Tyken's Rift, they get shrugged off in end-game encounters. I guess charged particle burst still has some bite. So there is that.
Crowd Control abilities have been continually defanged since day 1. They still have some use, but don't really contribute to the efficiency of PVE end-game.
Science these days is really all about Hazard Emitters and Polarize Hull, and even a huge fan of the science ships (my first level 50 got there solely through science ships waaaaay back when and I still stubbornly fly the Retro Intrepid with that character, when I do play him), realizes that I don't bring much to the table. It's not even that I want to do damage in the ship. I just am not sure what I do to help get things done better.
Science has a lot of problems right now. It needs some developer attention, as it needs to find its role, its place in the game. I'm not sure the development team knows what to do with science anymore. Back in beta, Jack Emmert was all about science being crowd control, debuffing, space magic. But since launch, Jack's gone and done other projects and those left steering the game forward haven't had much of a clear vision for the science ship and how it functions in the game.
This is fine for levelling. The path from 1 to 50 can be done in any ship. And fans of the Nova, Intrepid, Oberth, Olympic, they can take that journey and have fun. But the end-game grinds, reputation, dilithium, marks, it really does push the science vessel towards the edge of disuse.
I'm veering WAY off topic though. This thread is about the Galaxy and how well it functions in that same end-game. Heh. Sorry for my rant. I just don't know what the solution is. I think BOFF powers and shared cooldowns and what science, engineering and tactical do really needs someone with some big picture thinking to take a look at. Not sure they have that type of big picture view on staff right now. So like when one dev (who takes a lot of heat on the forums) says something like beams are WAD ... I think he's right. From a certain point of view (oh yeah, Kenobi reference! Whoops!) ... But when players counter with how things are in game and in their experience I think they have a very good point as well. The big picture, it's fuzzy right now. And slanted. Not sure who can fix it or how.
The Yamato was destroyed by a iconian computer program which was icompatible to Federation Hardware/Sorftwae technobabble stuff. (TNG: "Contagion")
Every other ship would have bee destroyed by thist just easy, the defiant, Intrepid, excelsior and so on.
Most of the arguments brought up by Galaxy class haters to "proof" how weak the Galaxy is supposed to be, can easily be applied to almost any other starfleet ship.
Anyway, i haven't read the book that feature the Vesta class, but i can't imagine that the Vesta was illustrated as even better than Cryptic made it.
So why is it so hard to accept to look at the Galaxy Classes positiv sides and make it a ship that isn't so much embarrassing?
I can't find any other canon ship in STO which has been made purely to show its weak/boring side?
Obviously Cryptics devs didn't came to the idea to show that ships positive sides once in a while?
Other ships, like the Akira, Vesta or Excelsior have been made with much more care for it's fans and the ship itself.
I don't think that the Vestas special consoles have been made because the devs had nothing else to do. It was for the fans!
So even if a comparable unpopular ship like the Vesta can get so many special features abilities and even special weapons, why has the Galaxy Class to be in such a miserable state?
Where is the special console for the Galaxys huge phaser emitter arrray, its high-capacity deflector shield grid, where its 10 shot photon torpedo launcher, Metaphasic shield and so on. where is it?
If you think about the iconic status of the Galaxy Class i find it just incomprehensible we don't have such feature for it.
Other iconic ships like the Sovereign (Assault Cruiser) already have a "special" version, like the (Fleet) Regent Class, for example.
In my opinion they just put the Galaxy Class into the game to be able to show it once in a while on some promo pictures or other exhibit opportunities, just to attract some more people. While making it the most boring ship in the game.
And the funny thing is, some people are actually happy with a crappy ship like this.
I replied to this thread to add my voice to the masses asking for change to the current state of the Galaxy. Some have come here, to pick an argument because they like the ship being in the gimped position it is in. That's fine, grats, you already have your way. To come into a thread asking for changes to be made to the Galaxy and say "nope, it's fine the way it is" is not helping a cause but is JUST BEING ARGUMENTATIVE for the pure sake of it. Not to mention going back and forth with the other posters. Trying to win a argument over the internet? Good luck with that. You know who I am addressing.
All that being said, this thread should die and those of us who desire reasonable changes be made to get the Galaxy up to the T5 par should instead focus our efforts on the inbox of one Dan Stahl. dstahl@crypticstudios.com
Let me rephrase it then. The Enterprise was a Galaxy. It was no different than the Yamato, Odyssey, or Challenger. What made it different was its CREW. The caliber of the people on the Enterprise was higher.
The virus destroyed the Yamato because its CREW was not good enough to avoid the destruction. The Enterprise's CREW was good enough to save the ship.
In STO terms the Boffs and Doffs are the CREW. You slot the right Purple Doffs and you can do things you cannot imagine doing with White Doffs. You slot Purple Boffs with the right Traits and you get much better bonuses on your ship beyond just the Boff abilities.
The Enterprise was a Galaxy Class ship, but it had the best CREW in the fleet. IE, they were all Purples. Except maybe Riker. Every time he was in command of the Enterprise it was defeated or captured.
The Vesta in the novels was a next generation ship (next gen as in next level of technology) designed to deal with the Borg; and I think most people would consider the Vesta build to be weaker then what the books represented.
Of course the Vesta in game is a Science Vessel and only has 6 weapon slots, so unless you really believe 6 weapons are better than 8 I'm beginning to think you don't actually look at ships as a whole. You simply look at tac consoles and tac boffs and make all your decisions from that.
This game has a LOT of issues; and how powerful the Galaxy should be is well down on the list of things which need fixed. If the ship were unplayable it would be an issue, but saying the ship is not as good as you want it to be is just fan-boyism, IMO. The ship is very playable. One of my VAs flies a Galaxy with a Venture skin. I have no issues using the character in STFs or other end-game content. It's not unplayable - unless you only want to PvP.
The Challenger was never destroyed. According to back ground information the only three Galaxy-class starships confirmed to be destroyed were the Yamato; destroyed by a foreign computer virus, that would have also destroyed the Enterprise had they not been given hints to it before hand; the Odyssey was destroyed by an unknown enemy with superior technology at the time, and also that the writers wished to show that even the Enterprise-D would stand no chance in the same situation; and finally the Enterprise-D. I'd say the Enterprise-D failing against an inferior enemy ship, and crew incompetence, makes the latter part of the argument invalid.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Don't forget the Galaxies destroyed during the Dominion War. I am sure there was a Galaxy or two at the Chintoka garrison, and I am positive there were Galaxies in the assault fleet sent to retake Chintoka, both sets ended up running into the Breen and were destroyed. I am also sure that there were a few destroyed in "What You Leave Behind", since Admiral Ross did comment that they had lost a 3rd of their ships, and considering the size of the invasion fleet, I am sure that at least a few of them were Galaxy Class starships.
The USS Galaxy takes heavy damage in the initial battle to take Chintoka, however that ship is also present at the relief fleet to aid the Enterprise-E In Nemesis, so it survived the Dominion War. Not sure about the final battle in the series finale, however there doesn't appear to be any Galaxy-class starships shown on screen in the fleet that is destroyed by the Breen at Chintoka, a few Nebula-class starships were there though, so it'd be a little difficult to tell their debris from a Galaxy-class.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"