There is no statement saying that the Enterprise was to be decommissioned.
Actually I think that was said, or at least that they wanted to retire the ship. It was right before Riker's "One of the perks of being an admiral is getting to choose your own ship" line.
Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Cosmos, Yorktown-class Star Cruiser Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
Lance or not, i don't care.
What i want is the G-X without that stupid looking third nacelle or better said a Galaxy Class that can use a energy weapons and a torpedo Tac power in combination with Tactical team. Nothing more.
Let them turn the Lance into a console and give the ship a additional console slot, call it Venture Dreadnought and be fine with it.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
What about punching HOLES in a friggin Borg cube double the size of the Ent-D's saucer? You see, that's what I mean. Iam quite certain that fully charged shots from the phaser arrays would be capable of dealing massive damage to an opponent, the amount of one-shots is also something to keep in mind. The "lance" was never called anything else than a "phaser emitter", I think the lancing term was STOs invention. The additional arrays/emitter hardpoints on the nacelles were also part of the Galaxies scrambled during the Dominion War. I don't know about the additional torpedo launcher and the "antenna cannons", we never see anything of that on-screen and I still don't know what a third warp nacelle offers in terms of tactical advantages Also keep in mind that the AGT Enterprise just recieved those mods to keep her from being decomissioned - all of those mods are custom hotrodding by Bill Riker, it's questionable wether other ships recieved the same mods. That's all I'm saying
The Borg didn't have a deflecort shield in the shows, remember? Aflter takin g damage then the borg were able to adapt and make the hull absorb the phaser engery blast. Even photone torpedoes didn't do anything after that. Go back and watch that episode. In the game, Cryptic gave the borg deflector shields to make them more advanced in the current 25th Century.
Wheher you know what the name of the lance was or not, you saw the firepower and it basted through the Negh'Var with its shields up. The show didn't call the lance anything so you lied by saying it was called a phaser emitter. Just by looking at it you could use common sense and could of called it a huge phaser cannon because it physically stretched through the length of the sauser section and adjoined to the drive section. You don't have to see the firepower of the new add on weopons to figure out what they would do. A gun doesn't have to shoot in order for you to know it is a gun or the it can kill. The box on top was also seen on another war class starship that the Feds were experimenting with. There are a few ships the had the same type of torpedoe pods on them. An experimental nebula class also sported something similar. Just look up Nebular class on Memory Alpha.
The third engine nacelle help with power and warp speed. The more power a ship has, the more power can be charged to its weapons for overloading firepower or firing all weapons without getting drained. In "All Good Things," the alternate future Enterprise D was able to attain Warp 13 as said so by Amiral Riker. Also, the Warpcore of the Dreadnought was so much more powerful that it could outlast two Galaxy Class warpcores while sustaining warp shell to close the anti-time rift.
Just because an old ship was hotrodded don't make it the same as the origional. You would know this if you knew anything about building race cars from factory models. I had turned my old 205 horsepower, 120 mph, 1997 Thunderbird into a barely street-legal, 650 horspower race car, reaching speeds over 200 mph. The only original part of the car was the interior and chasey, but the body kit, hood, engine, exhaust, wheels and suspension were all aftermarket race parts to help the car's performance. Yes the car was still a Thunderbird but it was not ths same car in anyway.
If you pay more attetion to the shows, manuals and information outside of the show, you can get a more complete understanding of the ships' stats.
Are you guys crazy? Have you seen "All good things?''(TNG) The regular Enterprise D only was armed with 12 Phaser arrays, and 2 torpedo lauchers, according to the manual. The "Alternate Future" Enterprise D had the 12 arrays plus 3 phaser hardpoints on top of 3 engine nacelles, plus the two phaser cannons on top of sauser section. That brings the total of regular phaser weapons to 17. That thing on top of the shuttle bay is a twin torpedo laucher making the total laucher count to 4. Then you have the one superweapon ,which is the Phaser Lance that blast right through a Negh'Var's shields and hull with one shot and completely destroy it with 6 shots. How does that not make the "X" more Tactical than the "R." There was not one scene in TNG where the forward phaser arrays of the Enterprise D blasted through the shields and hull of a ship of equal to or greater than mass with one shot.
Note: Cryptic didn't make the Galaxy classes to their true specs or hull dimensions. The game's Galaxies window pattern is not the same as the canon one on the sauser section or drive section. The drive section windows are supposed be fanned out from the neck , in a spider web pattern along with the hull plating.
The game ship have rectangular hull pattern on Drive section and fits tubular like a submarine. The Sauser section is missing the windows on front leading edge that would make up "Ten Forward"and other quarters and lounges. The bridge deck is very low profile in comparison to the show and the drive section when separated is missing it's bridge deck.
Cruptic didn't make the box on top of the Galaxy Dreadnought's shuttle bay high enough to notice when actually in the show it was raised higher than the bridge deck itself. Also Cryptic has limited all ships to no more than 8 weapon slots because they didn't want to deal with complex designs on bringing each ship true stats and abilities.
Even in the Game, the Galaxy X has a better time surviving and killing than the over-engineered Galaxy R. The lack of a 3 weapon console and lack of tac boff set up, limiting the Galaxy R to just healing itself and others, which is now obsolete in this game.
guess i'll use this as an excuse to tear down the X. with regard to phaser arrays, it doesn't mater how many a ship has. it maters how long at least 1 or 2 of them are. the akira has 3 arrays, its main dorcel array is even longer then the sovereign best, longest of all the canon ships save for the galaxy and nebula. it also has 2 fairly large venal arrays, and thats it. save for dead aft, these cover the ship completely with very high phaser firepower.
all but 2 of the galaxy class's arrays are little more then blind spot coverage and extra point defense. only a very small ship could hide in the large array blind spots, so small that several of those small arrays could handle them. those 3 extra the X has serve no purpose, any area they could cover is already covered by the main array, or any other smaller arrays on the secondary hull.
the galaxy's main arrays are already the most powerful ship mounted arrays by an order of magnitude, adding some additional phaser cannon up front, that has none of the fireing arc advantages the massively powerful arrays already has, makes absolutely no sense. what it did with it to the negvars, isn't all that impressive vs what the arrays have been seen capable of doing the few times the galaxy actually got to use them without holding back, or got jobed before it got a shot off. there appeared to be a difference in the way it deals damage though, arrays when they hit hull vaporize a crater into it, the lance shoots a hole right through a ship, without additional vaporization. if it had used its main array on the head of that negvar, it likely would have vaporized that whole side of it, instead of punched a hole through it. those ships apparently didn't even have their shields up, some times plot armor is so strong it also debuffs your targets too.
the extra nacelle is a pointless additional as well. if its not, why dont all ships have 3, 4, 5, 6 nacelles? the galaxy X is a figment of Q's imagination. it should be taken as seriously as the winter event.
This may have been suggested before, and I apologize if it has, but here's my idea on how to bring up the Galaxy R a bit. It's really simple, no Boff changes, no stat changes, just add one thing: A hangar. Make it a flight-deck cruiser.
It makes sense gameplay-wise, the Feds have a carrier of every type except that to call their own except that one, and a single launch bay of shuttles/fighters would be helpful, but not overwhelming. It would also fit canon as well. No, the Galaxy was never explicitly called or used as a carrier in the shows, but where were all those fighters in the Dominion War berthed when not in use anyway? Well the numerous Galaxy-class ships in those fleets would be a good answer to that question. Remember: In TNG we only ever saw shuttlebays two and three, and those were big enough for the show, but shuttlebay 1 is that massive thing on the saucer that could probably easily hold enough small craft for at least two hangars of small craft in-game, but one seems sufficient to me for gameplay purposes.
Any other thoughts on this?
that would nerf the ship. you would lose 2 of the cruiser auras, 1 being the most important by far, in exchange for some crappy 1 shot pop pets. it would be one thing to have a flight deck galaxy as part of a 3 pack, but the only end game varient? hell no
This may have been suggested before, and I apologize if it has, but here's my idea on how to bring up the Galaxy R a bit. It's really simple, no Boff changes, no stat changes, just add one thing: A hangar. Make it a flight-deck cruiser.
It makes sense gameplay-wise, the Feds have a carrier of every type except that to call their own except that one, and a single launch bay of shuttles/fighters would be helpful, but not overwhelming. It would also fit canon as well. No, the Galaxy was never explicitly called or used as a carrier in the shows, but where were all those fighters in the Dominion War berthed when not in use anyway? Well the numerous Galaxy-class ships in those fleets would be a good answer to that question. Remember: In TNG we only ever saw shuttlebays two and three, and those were big enough for the show, but shuttlebay 1 is that massive thing on the saucer that could probably easily hold enough small craft for at least two hangars of small craft in-game, but one seems sufficient to me for gameplay purposes.
Any other thoughts on this?
That is a good idea. Maybe that should be offered as part of the 3 pack Galaxy or FLeet Galaxy revamp option because the current Fleet Galaxy is barely better than the C-store version.
Limiting the fix to JUST a hangar bay isn't going to solve the problem. It's still going to be a low-DPS ship with bad Boff seating arrangement and power, it just comes with carrier spawn now. A good hull breach or BFAW attack will clear all that away, meaning you have to relaunch your carrier spawn, while continuing to do what you did before. Adding a Hangar to the ship as is will result in nothing more than a distraction.
I would be happy with a hangar is the rest of the ship was tweaked a bit to support better boff seating, or an improvement on the base stats.
Besides, if the Devs added a hanger, in order to make it fair to the other carrier drivers, the Galaxy would lose two weapons and some hull. To start with. I wouldn't be surprised if they took a point away from base maneuver rating. then you get a 2500 Zen Federation Obelisk with crappy seating and half the hull and hangars.
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My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
There is no statement saying that the Enterprise was to be decommissioned.
There is no statement saying that Riker added the dreadnought customizations to the Enterprise.
There is no statement saying whether or not there were additional dreadnoughts created.
The phaser strips on the nacelles never showed up before or after the galaxy dreadnought. They are placed ontop of points that were added exclusively to the dreadnought and are never shown again, making it unique to this particular sub-class of the galaxy
The "antenna cannons" as you state could very well be actual cannons, I don't know what else to call something with large barrels sticking out like that. They certainly aren't scientific in nature on a dreadnought class of ship.
.
You are correct in that the term "lance" is not a canon one. It could just be a "Phaser Cannon" for all we know. It could be the "KILLEVERYTHINGINSIGHTPHASER" for all we know. But the term lance works fine for most people.
The reason you see the Enterprise-D punch "HOLES in a friggin Borg cube", is because the Borg had not yet encountered Federation weaponry or ships. Their shielding was not yet adapted to their frequencies and outputs. So full powered phaser shots from a galaxy class (Which has already proven to be ultra-lethal to most enemies) is not surprising to blast giant gaping holes in the side of a ship that's not shielded. However, once adapted that never happened again. The "Lance" on the other hand, impacted both shielding AND hull and pierced both, every single time it was shot. The two cannot be compared.
You have one statement that I would correct. "The phaser strips on the nacelles never showed up before or after the galaxy dreadnought. They are placed ontop of points that were added exclusively to the dreadnought and are never shown again, making it unique to this particular sub-class of the galaxy."
Those phaser arrays on top of the necelles were also sported on the USS Verture during the dominoin war. They were backwards in camparison to the ones on the Alt Enterprise D. By seeing that, it would be more likely that Starfleet planned on upgrading the Galaxy Class at a later time to make up for the shortage of advanced battleship type ships. the Galaxy Class production was ramped up after the "Battle of Wolf 359" and was commissioned in time for the Dominion War. Only two Sovereign classes were built, the USS Sovereign and the USS Enterprise E, which was turned into a experimental platform after Captain Picard retired and Captain Data took over.
guess i'll use this as an excuse to tear down the X. with regard to phaser arrays, it doesn't mater how many a ship has. it maters how long at least 1 or 2 of them are. the akira has 3 arrays, its main dorcel array is even longer then the sovereign best, longest of all the canon ships save for the galaxy and nebula. it also has 2 fairly large venal arrays, and thats it. save for dead aft, these cover the ship completely with very high phaser firepower.
all but 2 of the galaxy class's arrays are little more then blind spot coverage and extra point defense. only a very small ship could hide in the large array blind spots, so small that several of those small arrays could handle them. those 3 extra the X has serve no purpose, any area they could cover is already covered by the main array, or any other smaller arrays on the secondary hull.
the galaxy's main arrays are already the most powerful ship mounted arrays by an order of magnitude, adding some additional phaser cannon up front, that has none of the fireing arc advantages the massively powerful arrays already has, makes absolutely no sense. what it did with it to the negvars, isn't all that impressive vs what the arrays have been seen capable of doing the few times the galaxy actually got to use them without holding back, or got jobed before it got a shot off. there appeared to be a difference in the way it deals damage though, arrays when they hit hull vaporize a crater into it, the lance shoots a hole right through a ship, without additional vaporization. if it had used its main array on the head of that negvar, it likely would have vaporized that whole side of it, instead of punched a hole through it. those ships apparently didn't even have their shields up, some times plot armor is so strong it also debuffs your targets too.
the extra nacelle is a pointless additional as well. if its not, why dont all ships have 3, 4, 5, 6 nacelles? the galaxy X is a figment of Q's imagination. it should be taken as seriously as the winter event.
Yeah, why don't you try to rewrite the story and script on TNG to fit your purposes? There are no such weapons that are completely useless like you would suggest. Stick to the script, manual and canon information from the Star Trek sanctioned sites to rebut some information, not your opinion. Making a crater into unshielded hull can't be compared to damage through shields and I have never seen a beam weapon completely vaporize a whole part of ship in Star Trek, ever. Hulls have been blasted through, or blasted away but not turn into steam or gas cloud or just disappeard. The Negh'Vars did have their shields up because Worf said the the USS Pastor's weapons will not penetrate their shields.
Its quite obvious you have not been watching Star Trek in a long time or been looking at Star Trek information material, because everything is useless to you and pointless. Why even call yourself a Star Trek fan? Have you seen the USS Stargazer? An old ship with 4 Warp naccelles and was fastest warp Fed ship till the USS Enterprise D, then 10 or so years later they came up with Prometheus Class, aslo have 5 Warp engine nacelles, 4 for normal docked mode and 5th for sauser separation during Warp speed. it was known as fastest Warp ship for the Feds up until the broke the Warp 10 threshhold. The Alternate Future was not Q's idea, Captain Picard said that Q allowed him to pass back and forth between the time periods.
You need to go buy and watch every episode and movie before you start making up stuff about Star Trek with your opinion.
Limiting the fix to JUST a hangar bay isn't going to solve the problem. It's still going to be a low-DPS ship with bad Boff seating arrangement and power, it just comes with carrier spawn now. A good hull breach or BFAW attack will clear all that away, meaning you have to relaunch your carrier spawn, while continuing to do what you did before. Adding a Hangar to the ship as is will result in nothing more than a distraction.
I would be happy with a hangar is the rest of the ship was tweaked a bit to support better boff seating, or an improvement on the base stats.
Besides, if the Devs added a hanger, in order to make it fair to the other carrier drivers, the Galaxy would lose two weapons and some hull. To start with. I wouldn't be surprised if they took a point away from base maneuver rating. then you get a 2500 Zen Federation Obelisk with crappy seating and half the hull and hangars.
That would be one of the badder endings for the GCS in STO.
Personally i don't think that a hangar would add anything useful to the GCS. What that ship needs is more versatility.
I think the Galaxys "role" in STO should be reconsidered, since (1.) there is no need for a teethless tank and (2.) the Galaxy Class is one of the most improper ship to put into that role.
If you look at Starfleet Cruisers in STO one can identify two extremes. The offensive extreme is the Avenger, while the defensive king is the Odyssey (depending on Station setup).
The Galaxys place should be somewhere in the middle of both extremes, not outgunning a Aveger but also not outtanking a Odyssey. (But able to outgun a defensive Odyssey and able to outtank a Avenger.)
A good example for such a ship is the Ambassador or (even better) the Voth bastion Flight deck Cruiser BOFF and Console Layout.
Especially the later ones BOFF and Console Layout would be perfect for the Galaxy Class IMO since it allows a high amount of adaptability to a players playstyle.
One more interesting thing about it:
(STOWIKI)
Performance
The Voth Bastion Flight-Deck Cruiser is a well-armed (4 aft, 4 fore) and well-armored cruiser capable of taking and delivering a harsh amount of punishment.
That's exactly what the Galaxy Class is supposed to be in my opinion!
It would even work as a sucessor of the T5 Ambassador, since the GCS would be even more versatile
The devs should just put that BOFF and Console Layout on the Galaxy -R and call it a day.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Yeah, why don't you try to rewrite the story and script on TNG to fit your purposes? There are no such weapons that are completely useless like you would suggest. Stick to the script, manual and canon information from the Star Trek sanctioned sites to rebut some information, not your opinion.
were have you been all those times i explained how arrays worked? based entirely on their on screen operation, and their tech spelled out about them in the tech manuals? the beauty of this spelled out in detail array function is that im relieved of any need to try to come up with some explanation for how they work myself, that would surly be biased 1 way or the other. theres the oficial, sanctioned detailing i can point to as needed. do i need to spell it out in detail again? reference my sources like the page number of the tech manual again? suffice to say, length= per shot power potential, leaving smaller arrays nearly irreverent in their presence.
Making a crater into unshielded hull can't be compared to damage through shields and I have never seen a beam weapon completely vaporize a whole part of ship in Star Trek, ever. Hulls have been blasted through, or blasted away but not turn into steam or gas cloud or just disappears. The Negh'Vars did have their shields up because Worf said the the USS Pastor's weapons will not penetrate their shields.
no shield impact effects = no shields. the E-D in 3 shots vaporized more volume of the borg cube then there was volume of the enterrpise D it self. there was clear vaporization after impact, especially the close up on that shot through the edge. there are few and far between detailed beam hits on hull, another that comes to mind is the hits the uss galaxy takes from a defense platform, on hit a large chunk of the secondary hull was vaporized around the point of the beam impacts. torps or energy cannons did a number on the saucer too. then theres hand phasers doing the same things a number of times in trek. the lance's effect was completely different, but it doesn't exactly prove its worth.
Its quite obvious you have not been watching Star Trek in a long time or been looking at Star Trek information material, because everything is useless to you and pointless. Why even call yourself a Star Trek fan? Have you seen the USS Stargazer? An old ship with 4 Warp naccelles and was fastest warp Fed ship till the USS Enterprise D, then 10 or so years later they came up with Prometheus Class, aslo have 5 Warp engine nacelles, 4 for normal docked mode and 5th for sauser separation during Warp speed. it was known as fastest Warp ship for the Feds up until the broke the Warp 10 threshhold. The Alternate Future was not Q's idea, Captain Picard said that Q allowed him to pass back and forth between the time periods.
You need to go buy and watch every episode and movie before you start making up stuff about Star Trek with your opinion.
wow. seriously, wow. to go that far, you better know everything about everything, and me not able to back up everything i say from on screen or manual sources. to bad i actually can. whats this TRIBBLE about the stargazer? there was never any reference to that thing being fast with 4 engines, the only canon description of the class is that it was underpowered. it looks like they took all those constitition class that never showed up in tng, took them apart, and combined 2 of them into the constellation class lol.
i find it almost delightful that in this parafraph you get the number of nacelles the prometheus has wrong. technically, it has 6, wile separated. one on the top and bottom of the saucer unit. number on neccels is not an indicator of anything, the number of warp coils, their advanced-ness and effiency, the peek output of the warp core, and the size of warp bubble they have to project is what determines speed. the neccles are just packageing for the ideal or target ratio. the uss pasture went the exact same warp 13 the 3 neccel E-D did, clearly that speed is not speciel, and its just a warp factor thats part of a reconfigured warp scale anyway. not faster then warp 10 on the current warp scale, thats not a thing. i bet you think borg transwarp and slip stream is faster then warp 10 too. lol at the voyager warp 10 thing, tom paris, in a shuttle craft, occupies all points in the universe simultaneously and turns into a lizard. right. theres practically a public apology for that episode.
if you even payed attention to what happened in AGT, you would know that the entire chain of events was instigated by Q, for picard to unwittingly set in motion for him to try to unravel and solve. the whole thing was a test for him, and with Q's powers he recreated the past outside continuity and created a reasonable future for it all to play out in, for picard to phase too due to some syndrome he gave him for the purpose of the test.
just for future reference, if i post something definitive relating to the canon, know that im not going to say something i cant present evidence to back up. save yourself the embarrassment of calling me out as a fraud before responding, and double check what i say first at least. wouldn't want to be guilty of the same creative license your accusing me of.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the lance more of a piercing attack, as seen from how they go straight through on screen, while the regular array attack is more like a sledge hammer?
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the lance more of a piercing attack, as seen from how they go straight through on screen, while the regular array attack is more like a sledge hammer?
Here is why the Galaxy is sub-par (for me, and in my opinion)
For me i fly hard in an Oddy, But the Vesta puts me where i need to be Boff wise, the Oddy does too for a different set of circumstances.
But the Vesta is where i sit right now, cause i can do in it, what the Galaxy is supposed to be awesome at. You find a way to just sraight up EAT Donatra's Thalaron or the CE on Elite, in a Galaxy show me proof and i'll applaud you.
Cause if i can eat one in a Vesta that has 2/3 - 3/5 of the hull of a Galaxy and remain at 50-60% hull and not survive the same thing in a Galaxy which ship is the Better tank, and why?
Simple, Science powers offer real resists to damage on the shields and Hull
Just saying..... Also i can do the Same thing in My Oddy, though i take considerably more damage, dropping my to about 10 - 20% Remaining Hull.
The Galaxy is a about as much of a tank as a 10 year old in a cradboard box holding a towl tube is a panzer
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
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Last night i was having bit of a debate with some people about the Galaxy and saying she needs reworking in the game. The resistance i was met with was quite shocking. TNG really did a good job of brainwashing people into believing that Starfleet was not the Military and once again the age of old argument about the Galaxy being a Explorer (Starfleets destination for a battleship wasn't the Sovereign classed as an Explorer), having families onboard ect came up.
The information i provided that if the Galaxy was not a military vessel why was she sent to patrol the Romulan Neutral Zone and posture to the Romulans as a show of Federation strength at a time the Romulans were attacking and testing federation defenses, The Cardassian DMZ, and most importantly the 1st Borg incursion into Federation space. Why would you send a under gunned Civilian ship to search and find the Borg to delay them whilst you gather a defense force if said ship didn't have very capable defensive and offensive systems or wasn't a military vessel. The argument i got for all of these was you send whets available. BS in those situations Starfleet sent its best
Then one of them hit me with this taken from Memory Alpha :
According to Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual, the Nova-class is the successor of the Galaxy-class starship as the next primary explorer ship of Starfleet.
This statement alone contradicts Janeways assessment of the class in Equinox Nova-class starships are short-range planetary research vessels, not designed for long-range tactical missions.
i didn't believe it for one moment that the Nova replaces the Galaxy. It replaced the Oberth
TNG didn't do the Galaxy or indeed Starfleet in general any favors regarding combat and military ability. But TNG wasn't that kind of show that was DS9.
If the Galaxy had been the hero ship in DS9 we wouldn't have this thread as she would be a battle cruiser in this game. If she had appeared in Voyager we would have a totally different ship again and probably a more tactically orientated ship or balanced between eng and sci . Sadly the perception of a Utopian society during TNG's run and that most conflicts can be resolved with Diplomacy or technobabble has given us the ship we have in game today. As people can't see past that view and see the ship for what she actually was.
And i think thats the view the Devs have. TNG peaceful pacifist culture so TNG ships are presented as such. DS9 full of conflict ships are more military focused and VOY a lost in space series where it was about encountering the unknown on the Journey home ends up with the ships Sci focused
TNG didn't do the Galaxy or indeed Starfleet in general any favors regarding combat and military ability. But TNG wasn't that kind of show that was DS9.
If the Galaxy had been the hero ship in DS9 we wouldn't have this thread as she would be a battle cruiser in this game. If she had appeared in Voyager we would have a totally different ship again and probably a more tactically orientated ship or balanced between eng and sci . Sadly the perception of a Utopian society during TNG's run and that most conflicts can be resolved with Diplomacy or technobabble has given us the ship we have in game today. As people can't see past that view and see the ship for what she actually was.
And i think thats the view the Devs have. TNG peaceful pacifist culture so TNG ships are presented as such. DS9 full of conflict ships are more military focused and VOY a lost in space series where it was about encountering the unknown on the Journey home ends up with the ships Sci focused
I fully agree with you. TNG was by nature a more family oriented series, and so everyone things the Galaxy Class was a flying living room INCLUDING THE DEVS!!!
What i find shocking is that Cryptics devs are so superficial and just take that view for granted.
But if someone looks a dit closer to that ship he/seh will find a completely different thing than expected.
Just because the Galaxy Class wasn't involved in epic battles in eache episode and its captain was more like a bureaucrat (in the series in the movies he turned into John McLanes grandfather, lol) than a adventurer, doesn't mean the ship sucks. It was the mostly the script and the crew that sucked IMO.
To be honest i was heavily disappointed by STOs devs when i saw that they just put the Galaxy Class into the teethless tank role, obviously because they didn't care to look into a TNG a bit more.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Here is why the Galaxy is sub-par (for me, and in my opinion)
For me i fly hard in an Oddy, But the Vesta puts me where i need to be Boff wise, the Oddy does too for a different set of circumstances.
But the Vesta is where i sit right now, cause i can do in it, what the Galaxy is supposed to be awesome at. You find a way to just sraight up EAT Donatra's Thalaron or the CE on Elite, in a Galaxy show me proof and i'll applaud you.
Cause if i can eat one in a Vesta that has 2/3 - 3/5 of the hull of a Galaxy and remain at 50-60% hull and not survive the same thing in a Galaxy which ship is the Better tank, and why?
Simple, Science powers offer real resists to damage on the shields and Hull
Just saying..... Also i can do the Same thing in My Oddy, though i take considerably more damage, dropping my to about 10 - 20% Remaining Hull.
The Galaxy is a about as much of a tank as a 10 year old in a cradboard box holding a towl tube is a panzer
Please show us the vid on how you built and played your Fleet galaxy so the Fleet Galaxy experts can tell you where you made mistakes.
This statement is a complete fallacy - "The Galaxy is a about as much of a tank as a 10 year old in a cradboard box holding a towl tube is a panzer " .
On a Fleet Galaxy, upon hit on Donatra's Thaloron pulse, a Fleet Galaxy should have at least the following stats:
(at the minimum)
65,000 hull
15,000 Shield
65% hull resistance
60% shield resistance
If you cannot achieve the above stats on a Fleet Galaxy R, your build is wrong or your playing the ship wrong or both.
Fleet Galaxy's BoFFs are excellent for eng tanking and eng healing for either pvp or pve.
You cannot build nor do the same playstyle of a Fleet galaxy like any other types of Odyssey or all Vestas. However, you can play an Operation odyssey like a fleet galaxy.
Although, with all my posts, I have always supported the upgrade in hull and shield modifier on the Fleet Galaxy R due to more and more newer ships having equal or better tanking capabilities than the Fleet Galaxy R.
Please show us the vid on how you built and played your Fleet galaxy so the Fleet Galaxy experts can tell you where you made mistakes.
This statement is a complete fallacy - "The Galaxy is a about as much of a tank as a 10 year old in a cradboard box holding a towl tube is a panzer " .
On a Fleet Galaxy, upon hit on Donatra's Thaloron pulse, a Fleet Galaxy should have at least the following stats:
(at the minimum)
65,000 hull
15,000 Shield
65% hull resistance
60% shield resistance
If you cannot achieve the above stats on a Fleet Galaxy R, your build is wrong or your playing the ship wrong or both.
Fleet Galaxy's BoFFs are excellent for eng tanking and eng healing for either pvp or pve.
You cannot build nor do the same playstyle of a Fleet galaxy like any other types of Odyssey or all Vestas. However, you can play an Operation odyssey like a fleet galaxy.
Although, with all my posts, I have always supported the upgrade in hull and shield modifier on the Fleet Galaxy R due to more and more newer ships having equal or better tanking capabilities than the Fleet Galaxy R.
If i had Vid i would, but as i dont have a Cap card or anything of the sort Vid would require me to use an ACTUAL video camera to do so and with look like utter garbage.
Instead how about you post this mighty build that has 65k hull and 60%+ in resists, the shields are the easy part i got those.....
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
But the Vesta is where i sit right now, cause i can do in it, what the Galaxy is supposed to be awesome at. You find a way to just sraight up EAT Donatra's Thalaron or the CE on Elite, in a Galaxy show me proof and i'll applaud you.
The ability to eat a one-shot attack in a Besta while remaining totally unscathed isn't really a thing that proves anything, because that's pretty much the ship's one-shot magic power.
Here is why the Galaxy is sub-par (for me, and in my opinion)
For me i fly hard in an Oddy, But the Vesta puts me where i need to be Boff wise, the Oddy does too for a different set of circumstances.
But the Vesta is where i sit right now, cause i can do in it, what the Galaxy is supposed to be awesome at. You find a way to just sraight up EAT Donatra's Thalaron or the CE on Elite, in a Galaxy show me proof and i'll applaud you.
Cause if i can eat one in a Vesta that has 2/3 - 3/5 of the hull of a Galaxy and remain at 50-60% hull and not survive the same thing in a Galaxy which ship is the Better tank, and why?
Simple, Science powers offer real resists to damage on the shields and Hull
Just saying..... Also i can do the Same thing in My Oddy, though i take considerably more damage, dropping my to about 10 - 20% Remaining Hull.
The Galaxy is a about as much of a tank as a 10 year old in a cradboard box holding a towl tube is a panzer
(emphasis mine)
Regarding the part I bolded, if that is indeed your experience, then I'd say you're doing it wrong.
I haven't taken my standard Gal-R into STFs in probably 6 months or so, but my Gal-R has never had a problem tanking anything I can throw at it. Yes, even KASE, taking Donatra's Thalaron blast to the face. (it looks like hell after, and walks with a limp, but survives it). Much like your experience in the Oddy, 15-20% hull left. With PH3, I can see that increasing to 50%+, which I admit, the Gals can't equip.
Heck, my favorite part of KASE was soloing the cubes quickly by making them eat their own torpedoes, while they barely scratch my paint.
Implying that sci abilities offer more damage resistance than engineering is largely incorrect.
The *only* exception being polarize hull. (PH3's resist is HUGE)
EP2S trumps TSS's resist by a large margin.
From stowiki:
TSS3 has the same resist as EP2S1.
HE3 has 1% more resist than A2SIF1.
The Gal can have:
- EP2S3x2: resist up 50% of the time with 2 copies... 15 sec resist, 30 sec global cooldown (same length as TSS, if I remember right).
- Aux2SIF3.
- Polarize Hull
- Hazard Emitters
- Extend Shields (allies only, but that's part of my job as a tank. ES3 is twice the resist and duration of TSS3)
Three of those abilities can be used on allies.
All that said, I admit that the Gal-R needs improvement.
I wanted the fleet version to have a uni ensign station and an extra tac console instead of the 5th eng.
I don't expect it to dish out crazy damage. It shouldn't. But implying that it can't tank is laughably incorrect.
In a Gal-R, if someone can't tank in it and pull their weight in damage, then it's not the ship's fault.
My favorite tanking ship at this particluar moment is the tactical Bortas.
Every bit as sturdy, and can really dish out the damage.
The Gal-R is a close 2nd fav, but just because I love the Galaxy class. Beautiful ship.
Ideally, I'd LOVE to see the Gal hit as hard as my Bortas while retaining the tankability... but I'm not going to hold my breath.
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
...
All that said, I admit that the Gal-R needs improvement.
I wanted the fleet version to have a uni ensign station and an extra tac console instead of the 5th eng.
I don't expect it to dish out crazy damage. It shouldn't. But implying that it can't tank is laughably incorrect.
In a Gal-R, if someone can't tank in it and pull their weight in damage, then it's not the ship's fault.
May i ask why?
I read such a statement all the time, i'd really like to know why most ppl are thinking the Galaxy shouldn't have more than average firepower.
In TNG it was clearly shown how massive the Galaxys firepower can be.
Just because they didn't use it all the time, doesn't mean it's not capable to dish out lots of damage.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
May i ask why?
I read such a statement all the time, i'd really like to know why most ppl are thinking the Galaxy shouldn't have more than average firepower.
In TNG it was clearly shown how massive the Galaxys firepower can be.
Just because they didn't use it all the time, doesn't mean it's not capable to dish out lots of damage.
I think most of us assume this due to the layout. DPS isn't intuitive.
Lt. tactical station and 2 tactical consoles.
It's layout leans more toward tanking/healing.
In the show, it could definitely hold it's own. But the way that the devs made the in-game version doesn't necessarily reflect that. Even then, one could argue that the show's ship was more science based.
On that note... I've always thought the cruiser beam arrays could be more accurately represented. How they follow the "tracks" on the array until the firing point, converge then fire.
Always thought it would be awesome if it worked that way in game, just increasing the power of each pulse by how many arrays are equipped so the "DPS" stayed the same.
FAW might not be the same after that tho :-P
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Dah! You are correct, I completely forgot about the Venture showing up in that DS9 episode with those on it's nacelles. Good job sir!
And yes, you are correct, Riker states "They tried to decommission her about 5 years ago".
I am off my game today, sheesh.
It happens to everyone, don't worry I could also reinforce every little thing I say with a source but frankly most of the time I don't bother as the evidence is lying somewhere but I'm not feeling like digging it up. But in canon discussions I'm trying to rely only on things that can be proven or I mark it clearly as my opinion.
Last night i was having bit of a debate with some people about the Galaxy and saying she needs reworking in the game. The resistance i was met with was quite shocking. TNG really did a good job of brainwashing people into believing that Starfleet was not the Military and once again the age of old argument about the Galaxy being a Explorer (Starfleets destination for a battleship wasn't the Sovereign classed as an Explorer),(...)
I'l probably side with the people you discussed with, at least partly. Gameplay problems the ship has put aside, canonically they were right. Starfleet is by it's very credo not a military. It's under civil command and Federation memberworlds have abandoned their own military and all ressources associated with it have been absorbed by Starfleet (Member worlds might keep own security forces for policing duties or non-Starfleet associated institutes like the Vulcan Academy of Sciences, however). And the Galaxy Class is an Explorer. That's Starfleet's term for their biggest ships according to design documents. You however fell in the same trap as people that use these arguments to illustrate that the ship is in any way uncapable of facing confrontations: All of you are very narrow minded concerning terminology and assume that militarism represents the only viable way of strength.
Starfleet is not a military, they don't build warships (in general), yet it prevailed through countless wars and their ships are rightfully respected throughout the Trekverse. Just because ships are called Explorers, their personnel doesn't wear camouflage uniforms and shouts "SIR YES SIR SHOOT TO KILL!" every two minutes does in no way shape or form mean they are "weak" or "foolish". An Explorer is meant to operate away from support for years. That's why there were families, because those people's lives basically took place on those ships. And exactly this circumstance means that the ships are heavily armed and defended - to protect that precious "cargo". Compare them roughly to 17th century merchantmen. You had plenty of trading ships that would dwarf military vessels in pure firepower and size for that reason. The Galaxy and those traders lack a certain tactical finesse in full fledged fleet combat situations, that's why there are different types of vessels to fill these rolls and to support each other.
Now, the fact that the ENT-D in the show was confronted more and more with border patrol duties and still remained in it's original exploration setup is somewhat discussion worthy, I'm not defending every little thing they did or showed, but people should really step down from that obsession about terminology and especially need to accept that militarism is not a sign of strength nor is it necessary in any way. The Enterprise was not a military vessel, it was a Starfleet vessel. Starfleet's concept might be hard to grasp if you need a present day real life equivalent as a organization like that doesn't exist. It is, in my opinion, as military as certain paramilitary police forces that share civil jurisdiction and combatant status in appropriate circumstances (for example Germanies post WW2 border patrol, US coast guard during peacetime...) And keep in mind that Starfleets military function is not their primary function but they are very capable of dealing with everything they face.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
May i ask why?
I read such a statement all the time, i'd really like to know why most ppl are thinking the Galaxy shouldn't have more than average firepower.
In TNG it was clearly shown how massive the Galaxys firepower can be.
Just because they didn't use it all the time, doesn't mean it's not capable to dish out lots of damage.
I personally would argue with my own preferences in combination with the gameplay and justify that with the fact that although the firepower is there, there are ships that can utilize it in a more efficient way which is represented in boff abilities, consoles and such. And I personally think just wanting the Galaxy to mirror the assault cruiser family is not the right way to go because I think it would be more awesome to trump with a eng/sci heavy build and overcome sheer stupid firepower but that's my personal preference (That's why I'll root for a Venture-type at endgame, more emphasize on sci than tac).
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
On that note... I've always thought the cruiser beam arrays could be more accurately represented. How they follow the "tracks" on the array until the firing point, converge then fire.
Always thought it would be awesome if it worked that way in game, just increasing the power of each pulse by how many arrays are equipped so the "DPS" stayed the same.
FAW might not be the same after that tho :-P
I think most of us assume this due to the layout. DPS isn't intuitive.
Lt. tactical station and 2 tactical consoles.
It's layout leans more toward tanking/healing.
In the show, it could definitely hold it's own. But the way that the devs made the in-game version doesn't necessarily reflect that. Even then, one could argue that the show's ship was more science based.
I personally would argue with my own preferences in combination with the gameplay and justify that with the fact that although the firepower is there, there are ships that can utilize it in a more efficient way which is represented in boff abilities, consoles and such. And I personally think just wanting the Galaxy to mirror the assault cruiser family is not the right way to go because I think it would be more awesome to trump with a eng/sci heavy build and overcome sheer stupid firepower but that's my personal preference (That's why I'll root for a Venture-type at endgame, more emphasize on sci than tac).
I understand that the GCs is more leaned towards science, i am all with you. But i also think that the devs where just too superficial by putting the GCS into the "teethless tank" corner.
If the devs where really wanting to create a GOOD representation of the GCS in STO, they should make her more like the Vesta. I know.. please hear me out.
I think the GCS should be come something like a Cruiser/science hybrid, with some extra firepower (something like a heavy Beam array or some console to reflect its massive firepower, similar to the Vestas aux cannons) but in general it should be more leaned towards science.
But just because the devs didn't really did their homework and made the Galaxy a toothless brick, doesn't mean it has to stay like that forever. I see that most positions (tank, DD, and whatever) are filled by other ships in STO, which is ok, since i never saw the Galaxy Class as a specialized ship. As i said i'd rather like to see her become something unique.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
The Ambassador we ultimately got in the 3rd Anniversary was everything the Galaxy should have been. Had the Galaxy been released with that layout, nobody would have complained.
I understand that the GCs is more leaned towards science, i am all with you. But i also think that the devs where just too superficial by putting the GCS into the "teethless tank" corner.
If the devs where really wanting to create a GOOD representation of the GCS in STO, they should make her more like the Vesta. I know.. please hear me out.
I think the GCS should be come something like a Cruiser/science hybrid, with some extra firepower (something like a heavy Beam array or some console to reflect its massive firepower, similar to the Vestas aux cannons) but in general it should be more leaned towards science.
But just because the devs didn't really did their homework and made the Galaxy a toothless brick, doesn't mean it has to stay like that forever. I see that most positions (tank, DD, and whatever) are filled by other ships in STO, which is ok, since i never saw the Galaxy Class as a specialized ship. As i said i'd rather like to see her become something unique.
I'd like to see it as either a Nebula type build Engineer focused with a science lt com and tac lt uni lt uni ensign or a mirror of the D'deridex as I believe it was stated in an episode of Next gen that it and the Galaxy where equal in firepower and shielding.
I'd like to see it as either a Nebula type build Engineer focused with a science lt com and tac lt uni lt uni ensign or a mirror of the D'deridex as I believe it was stated in an episode of Next gen that it and the Galaxy where equal in firepower and shielding.
Well, to be fair, they both have a 1.0 shield modifier and 4 fore and 4 aft weapons.
heh
But I get that you're saying :P
I'd rather have the Avenger's layout than the double-D.
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Comments
Actually I think that was said, or at least that they wanted to retire the ship. It was right before Riker's "One of the perks of being an admiral is getting to choose your own ship" line.
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
And yes, you are correct, Riker states "They tried to decommission her about 5 years ago".
I am off my game today, sheesh.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
What i want is the G-X without that stupid looking third nacelle or better said a Galaxy Class that can use a energy weapons and a torpedo Tac power in combination with Tactical team. Nothing more.
Let them turn the Lance into a console and give the ship a additional console slot, call it Venture Dreadnought and be fine with it.
The Borg didn't have a deflecort shield in the shows, remember? Aflter takin g damage then the borg were able to adapt and make the hull absorb the phaser engery blast. Even photone torpedoes didn't do anything after that. Go back and watch that episode. In the game, Cryptic gave the borg deflector shields to make them more advanced in the current 25th Century.
Wheher you know what the name of the lance was or not, you saw the firepower and it basted through the Negh'Var with its shields up. The show didn't call the lance anything so you lied by saying it was called a phaser emitter. Just by looking at it you could use common sense and could of called it a huge phaser cannon because it physically stretched through the length of the sauser section and adjoined to the drive section. You don't have to see the firepower of the new add on weopons to figure out what they would do. A gun doesn't have to shoot in order for you to know it is a gun or the it can kill. The box on top was also seen on another war class starship that the Feds were experimenting with. There are a few ships the had the same type of torpedoe pods on them. An experimental nebula class also sported something similar. Just look up Nebular class on Memory Alpha.
The third engine nacelle help with power and warp speed. The more power a ship has, the more power can be charged to its weapons for overloading firepower or firing all weapons without getting drained. In "All Good Things," the alternate future Enterprise D was able to attain Warp 13 as said so by Amiral Riker. Also, the Warpcore of the Dreadnought was so much more powerful that it could outlast two Galaxy Class warpcores while sustaining warp shell to close the anti-time rift.
Just because an old ship was hotrodded don't make it the same as the origional. You would know this if you knew anything about building race cars from factory models. I had turned my old 205 horsepower, 120 mph, 1997 Thunderbird into a barely street-legal, 650 horspower race car, reaching speeds over 200 mph. The only original part of the car was the interior and chasey, but the body kit, hood, engine, exhaust, wheels and suspension were all aftermarket race parts to help the car's performance. Yes the car was still a Thunderbird but it was not ths same car in anyway.
If you pay more attetion to the shows, manuals and information outside of the show, you can get a more complete understanding of the ships' stats.
guess i'll use this as an excuse to tear down the X. with regard to phaser arrays, it doesn't mater how many a ship has. it maters how long at least 1 or 2 of them are. the akira has 3 arrays, its main dorcel array is even longer then the sovereign best, longest of all the canon ships save for the galaxy and nebula. it also has 2 fairly large venal arrays, and thats it. save for dead aft, these cover the ship completely with very high phaser firepower.
all but 2 of the galaxy class's arrays are little more then blind spot coverage and extra point defense. only a very small ship could hide in the large array blind spots, so small that several of those small arrays could handle them. those 3 extra the X has serve no purpose, any area they could cover is already covered by the main array, or any other smaller arrays on the secondary hull.
the galaxy's main arrays are already the most powerful ship mounted arrays by an order of magnitude, adding some additional phaser cannon up front, that has none of the fireing arc advantages the massively powerful arrays already has, makes absolutely no sense. what it did with it to the negvars, isn't all that impressive vs what the arrays have been seen capable of doing the few times the galaxy actually got to use them without holding back, or got jobed before it got a shot off. there appeared to be a difference in the way it deals damage though, arrays when they hit hull vaporize a crater into it, the lance shoots a hole right through a ship, without additional vaporization. if it had used its main array on the head of that negvar, it likely would have vaporized that whole side of it, instead of punched a hole through it. those ships apparently didn't even have their shields up, some times plot armor is so strong it also debuffs your targets too.
the extra nacelle is a pointless additional as well. if its not, why dont all ships have 3, 4, 5, 6 nacelles? the galaxy X is a figment of Q's imagination. it should be taken as seriously as the winter event.
that would nerf the ship. you would lose 2 of the cruiser auras, 1 being the most important by far, in exchange for some crappy 1 shot pop pets. it would be one thing to have a flight deck galaxy as part of a 3 pack, but the only end game varient? hell no
That is a good idea. Maybe that should be offered as part of the 3 pack Galaxy or FLeet Galaxy revamp option because the current Fleet Galaxy is barely better than the C-store version.
I would be happy with a hangar is the rest of the ship was tweaked a bit to support better boff seating, or an improvement on the base stats.
Besides, if the Devs added a hanger, in order to make it fair to the other carrier drivers, the Galaxy would lose two weapons and some hull. To start with. I wouldn't be surprised if they took a point away from base maneuver rating. then you get a 2500 Zen Federation Obelisk with crappy seating and half the hull and hangars.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
You have one statement that I would correct. "The phaser strips on the nacelles never showed up before or after the galaxy dreadnought. They are placed ontop of points that were added exclusively to the dreadnought and are never shown again, making it unique to this particular sub-class of the galaxy."
Those phaser arrays on top of the necelles were also sported on the USS Verture during the dominoin war. They were backwards in camparison to the ones on the Alt Enterprise D. By seeing that, it would be more likely that Starfleet planned on upgrading the Galaxy Class at a later time to make up for the shortage of advanced battleship type ships. the Galaxy Class production was ramped up after the "Battle of Wolf 359" and was commissioned in time for the Dominion War. Only two Sovereign classes were built, the USS Sovereign and the USS Enterprise E, which was turned into a experimental platform after Captain Picard retired and Captain Data took over.
just saying.
That is a good picture.
Yeah, why don't you try to rewrite the story and script on TNG to fit your purposes? There are no such weapons that are completely useless like you would suggest. Stick to the script, manual and canon information from the Star Trek sanctioned sites to rebut some information, not your opinion. Making a crater into unshielded hull can't be compared to damage through shields and I have never seen a beam weapon completely vaporize a whole part of ship in Star Trek, ever. Hulls have been blasted through, or blasted away but not turn into steam or gas cloud or just disappeard. The Negh'Vars did have their shields up because Worf said the the USS Pastor's weapons will not penetrate their shields.
Its quite obvious you have not been watching Star Trek in a long time or been looking at Star Trek information material, because everything is useless to you and pointless. Why even call yourself a Star Trek fan? Have you seen the USS Stargazer? An old ship with 4 Warp naccelles and was fastest warp Fed ship till the USS Enterprise D, then 10 or so years later they came up with Prometheus Class, aslo have 5 Warp engine nacelles, 4 for normal docked mode and 5th for sauser separation during Warp speed. it was known as fastest Warp ship for the Feds up until the broke the Warp 10 threshhold. The Alternate Future was not Q's idea, Captain Picard said that Q allowed him to pass back and forth between the time periods.
You need to go buy and watch every episode and movie before you start making up stuff about Star Trek with your opinion.
Personally i don't think that a hangar would add anything useful to the GCS. What that ship needs is more versatility.
I think the Galaxys "role" in STO should be reconsidered, since (1.) there is no need for a teethless tank and (2.) the Galaxy Class is one of the most improper ship to put into that role.
If you look at Starfleet Cruisers in STO one can identify two extremes. The offensive extreme is the Avenger, while the defensive king is the Odyssey (depending on Station setup).
The Galaxys place should be somewhere in the middle of both extremes, not outgunning a Aveger but also not outtanking a Odyssey. (But able to outgun a defensive Odyssey and able to outtank a Avenger.)
A good example for such a ship is the Ambassador or (even better) the Voth bastion Flight deck Cruiser BOFF and Console Layout.
Especially the later ones BOFF and Console Layout would be perfect for the Galaxy Class IMO since it allows a high amount of adaptability to a players playstyle.
One more interesting thing about it:
(STOWIKI)
That's exactly what the Galaxy Class is supposed to be in my opinion!
Voth Bastion Flight-Deck Cruiser:
Tactical: Lt.
Engineering: Cmdr.
Science: Lt. cmdr.
Universal: Lt., Ens.
Consoles: 4, 3 ,3
It would even work as a sucessor of the T5 Ambassador, since the GCS would be even more versatile
The devs should just put that BOFF and Console Layout on the Galaxy -R and call it a day.
were have you been all those times i explained how arrays worked? based entirely on their on screen operation, and their tech spelled out about them in the tech manuals? the beauty of this spelled out in detail array function is that im relieved of any need to try to come up with some explanation for how they work myself, that would surly be biased 1 way or the other. theres the oficial, sanctioned detailing i can point to as needed. do i need to spell it out in detail again? reference my sources like the page number of the tech manual again? suffice to say, length= per shot power potential, leaving smaller arrays nearly irreverent in their presence.
no shield impact effects = no shields. the E-D in 3 shots vaporized more volume of the borg cube then there was volume of the enterrpise D it self. there was clear vaporization after impact, especially the close up on that shot through the edge. there are few and far between detailed beam hits on hull, another that comes to mind is the hits the uss galaxy takes from a defense platform, on hit a large chunk of the secondary hull was vaporized around the point of the beam impacts. torps or energy cannons did a number on the saucer too. then theres hand phasers doing the same things a number of times in trek. the lance's effect was completely different, but it doesn't exactly prove its worth.
wow. seriously, wow. to go that far, you better know everything about everything, and me not able to back up everything i say from on screen or manual sources. to bad i actually can. whats this TRIBBLE about the stargazer? there was never any reference to that thing being fast with 4 engines, the only canon description of the class is that it was underpowered. it looks like they took all those constitition class that never showed up in tng, took them apart, and combined 2 of them into the constellation class lol.
i find it almost delightful that in this parafraph you get the number of nacelles the prometheus has wrong. technically, it has 6, wile separated. one on the top and bottom of the saucer unit. number on neccels is not an indicator of anything, the number of warp coils, their advanced-ness and effiency, the peek output of the warp core, and the size of warp bubble they have to project is what determines speed. the neccles are just packageing for the ideal or target ratio. the uss pasture went the exact same warp 13 the 3 neccel E-D did, clearly that speed is not speciel, and its just a warp factor thats part of a reconfigured warp scale anyway. not faster then warp 10 on the current warp scale, thats not a thing. i bet you think borg transwarp and slip stream is faster then warp 10 too. lol at the voyager warp 10 thing, tom paris, in a shuttle craft, occupies all points in the universe simultaneously and turns into a lizard. right. theres practically a public apology for that episode.
if you even payed attention to what happened in AGT, you would know that the entire chain of events was instigated by Q, for picard to unwittingly set in motion for him to try to unravel and solve. the whole thing was a test for him, and with Q's powers he recreated the past outside continuity and created a reasonable future for it all to play out in, for picard to phase too due to some syndrome he gave him for the purpose of the test.
just for future reference, if i post something definitive relating to the canon, know that im not going to say something i cant present evidence to back up. save yourself the embarrassment of calling me out as a fraud before responding, and double check what i say first at least. wouldn't want to be guilty of the same creative license your accusing me of.
seems like a good analogy
For me i fly hard in an Oddy, But the Vesta puts me where i need to be Boff wise, the Oddy does too for a different set of circumstances.
But the Vesta is where i sit right now, cause i can do in it, what the Galaxy is supposed to be awesome at. You find a way to just sraight up EAT Donatra's Thalaron or the CE on Elite, in a Galaxy show me proof and i'll applaud you.
Cause if i can eat one in a Vesta that has 2/3 - 3/5 of the hull of a Galaxy and remain at 50-60% hull and not survive the same thing in a Galaxy which ship is the Better tank, and why?
Simple, Science powers offer real resists to damage on the shields and Hull
Just saying..... Also i can do the Same thing in My Oddy, though i take considerably more damage, dropping my to about 10 - 20% Remaining Hull.
The Galaxy is a about as much of a tank as a 10 year old in a cradboard box holding a towl tube is a panzer
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The information i provided that if the Galaxy was not a military vessel why was she sent to patrol the Romulan Neutral Zone and posture to the Romulans as a show of Federation strength at a time the Romulans were attacking and testing federation defenses, The Cardassian DMZ, and most importantly the 1st Borg incursion into Federation space. Why would you send a under gunned Civilian ship to search and find the Borg to delay them whilst you gather a defense force if said ship didn't have very capable defensive and offensive systems or wasn't a military vessel. The argument i got for all of these was you send whets available. BS in those situations Starfleet sent its best
Then one of them hit me with this taken from Memory Alpha :
According to Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual, the Nova-class is the successor of the Galaxy-class starship as the next primary explorer ship of Starfleet.
This statement alone contradicts Janeways assessment of the class in Equinox Nova-class starships are short-range planetary research vessels, not designed for long-range tactical missions.
i didn't believe it for one moment that the Nova replaces the Galaxy. It replaced the Oberth
TNG didn't do the Galaxy or indeed Starfleet in general any favors regarding combat and military ability. But TNG wasn't that kind of show that was DS9.
If the Galaxy had been the hero ship in DS9 we wouldn't have this thread as she would be a battle cruiser in this game. If she had appeared in Voyager we would have a totally different ship again and probably a more tactically orientated ship or balanced between eng and sci . Sadly the perception of a Utopian society during TNG's run and that most conflicts can be resolved with Diplomacy or technobabble has given us the ship we have in game today. As people can't see past that view and see the ship for what she actually was.
And i think thats the view the Devs have. TNG peaceful pacifist culture so TNG ships are presented as such. DS9 full of conflict ships are more military focused and VOY a lost in space series where it was about encountering the unknown on the Journey home ends up with the ships Sci focused
I fully agree with you. TNG was by nature a more family oriented series, and so everyone things the Galaxy Class was a flying living room INCLUDING THE DEVS!!!
What i find shocking is that Cryptics devs are so superficial and just take that view for granted.
But if someone looks a dit closer to that ship he/seh will find a completely different thing than expected.
Just because the Galaxy Class wasn't involved in epic battles in eache episode and its captain was more like a bureaucrat (in the series in the movies he turned into John McLanes grandfather, lol) than a adventurer, doesn't mean the ship sucks. It was the mostly the script and the crew that sucked IMO.
To be honest i was heavily disappointed by STOs devs when i saw that they just put the Galaxy Class into the teethless tank role, obviously because they didn't care to look into a TNG a bit more.
Please show us the vid on how you built and played your Fleet galaxy so the Fleet Galaxy experts can tell you where you made mistakes.
This statement is a complete fallacy - "The Galaxy is a about as much of a tank as a 10 year old in a cradboard box holding a towl tube is a panzer
On a Fleet Galaxy, upon hit on Donatra's Thaloron pulse, a Fleet Galaxy should have at least the following stats:
(at the minimum)
65,000 hull
15,000 Shield
65% hull resistance
60% shield resistance
If you cannot achieve the above stats on a Fleet Galaxy R, your build is wrong or your playing the ship wrong or both.
Fleet Galaxy's BoFFs are excellent for eng tanking and eng healing for either pvp or pve.
You cannot build nor do the same playstyle of a Fleet galaxy like any other types of Odyssey or all Vestas. However, you can play an Operation odyssey like a fleet galaxy.
Although, with all my posts, I have always supported the upgrade in hull and shield modifier on the Fleet Galaxy R due to more and more newer ships having equal or better tanking capabilities than the Fleet Galaxy R.
If i had Vid i would, but as i dont have a Cap card or anything of the sort Vid would require me to use an ACTUAL video camera to do so and with look like utter garbage.
Instead how about you post this mighty build that has 65k hull and 60%+ in resists, the shields are the easy part i got those.....
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(emphasis mine)
Regarding the part I bolded, if that is indeed your experience, then I'd say you're doing it wrong.
I haven't taken my standard Gal-R into STFs in probably 6 months or so, but my Gal-R has never had a problem tanking anything I can throw at it. Yes, even KASE, taking Donatra's Thalaron blast to the face. (it looks like hell after, and walks with a limp, but survives it). Much like your experience in the Oddy, 15-20% hull left. With PH3, I can see that increasing to 50%+, which I admit, the Gals can't equip.
Heck, my favorite part of KASE was soloing the cubes quickly by making them eat their own torpedoes, while they barely scratch my paint.
Implying that sci abilities offer more damage resistance than engineering is largely incorrect.
The *only* exception being polarize hull. (PH3's resist is HUGE)
EP2S trumps TSS's resist by a large margin.
From stowiki:
TSS3 has the same resist as EP2S1.
HE3 has 1% more resist than A2SIF1.
The Gal can have:
- EP2S3x2: resist up 50% of the time with 2 copies... 15 sec resist, 30 sec global cooldown (same length as TSS, if I remember right).
- Aux2SIF3.
- Polarize Hull
- Hazard Emitters
- Extend Shields (allies only, but that's part of my job as a tank. ES3 is twice the resist and duration of TSS3)
Three of those abilities can be used on allies.
All that said, I admit that the Gal-R needs improvement.
I wanted the fleet version to have a uni ensign station and an extra tac console instead of the 5th eng.
I don't expect it to dish out crazy damage. It shouldn't. But implying that it can't tank is laughably incorrect.
In a Gal-R, if someone can't tank in it and pull their weight in damage, then it's not the ship's fault.
My favorite tanking ship at this particluar moment is the tactical Bortas.
Every bit as sturdy, and can really dish out the damage.
The Gal-R is a close 2nd fav, but just because I love the Galaxy class. Beautiful ship.
Ideally, I'd LOVE to see the Gal hit as hard as my Bortas while retaining the tankability... but I'm not going to hold my breath.
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
I read such a statement all the time, i'd really like to know why most ppl are thinking the Galaxy shouldn't have more than average firepower.
In TNG it was clearly shown how massive the Galaxys firepower can be.
Just because they didn't use it all the time, doesn't mean it's not capable to dish out lots of damage.
I think most of us assume this due to the layout. DPS isn't intuitive.
Lt. tactical station and 2 tactical consoles.
It's layout leans more toward tanking/healing.
In the show, it could definitely hold it's own. But the way that the devs made the in-game version doesn't necessarily reflect that. Even then, one could argue that the show's ship was more science based.
On that note... I've always thought the cruiser beam arrays could be more accurately represented. How they follow the "tracks" on the array until the firing point, converge then fire.
Always thought it would be awesome if it worked that way in game, just increasing the power of each pulse by how many arrays are equipped so the "DPS" stayed the same.
FAW might not be the same after that tho :-P
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
It happens to everyone, don't worry
I'l probably side with the people you discussed with, at least partly. Gameplay problems the ship has put aside, canonically they were right. Starfleet is by it's very credo not a military. It's under civil command and Federation memberworlds have abandoned their own military and all ressources associated with it have been absorbed by Starfleet (Member worlds might keep own security forces for policing duties or non-Starfleet associated institutes like the Vulcan Academy of Sciences, however). And the Galaxy Class is an Explorer. That's Starfleet's term for their biggest ships according to design documents. You however fell in the same trap as people that use these arguments to illustrate that the ship is in any way uncapable of facing confrontations: All of you are very narrow minded concerning terminology and assume that militarism represents the only viable way of strength.
Starfleet is not a military, they don't build warships (in general), yet it prevailed through countless wars and their ships are rightfully respected throughout the Trekverse. Just because ships are called Explorers, their personnel doesn't wear camouflage uniforms and shouts "SIR YES SIR SHOOT TO KILL!" every two minutes does in no way shape or form mean they are "weak" or "foolish". An Explorer is meant to operate away from support for years. That's why there were families, because those people's lives basically took place on those ships. And exactly this circumstance means that the ships are heavily armed and defended - to protect that precious "cargo". Compare them roughly to 17th century merchantmen. You had plenty of trading ships that would dwarf military vessels in pure firepower and size for that reason. The Galaxy and those traders lack a certain tactical finesse in full fledged fleet combat situations, that's why there are different types of vessels to fill these rolls and to support each other.
Now, the fact that the ENT-D in the show was confronted more and more with border patrol duties and still remained in it's original exploration setup is somewhat discussion worthy, I'm not defending every little thing they did or showed, but people should really step down from that obsession about terminology and especially need to accept that militarism is not a sign of strength nor is it necessary in any way. The Enterprise was not a military vessel, it was a Starfleet vessel. Starfleet's concept might be hard to grasp if you need a present day real life equivalent as a organization like that doesn't exist. It is, in my opinion, as military as certain paramilitary police forces that share civil jurisdiction and combatant status in appropriate circumstances (for example Germanies post WW2 border patrol, US coast guard during peacetime...) And keep in mind that Starfleets military function is not their primary function but they are very capable of dealing with everything they face.
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I personally would argue with my own preferences in combination with the gameplay and justify that with the fact that although the firepower is there, there are ships that can utilize it in a more efficient way which is represented in boff abilities, consoles and such. And I personally think just wanting the Galaxy to mirror the assault cruiser family is not the right way to go because I think it would be more awesome to trump with a eng/sci heavy build and overcome sheer stupid firepower but that's my personal preference
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I understand that the GCs is more leaned towards science, i am all with you. But i also think that the devs where just too superficial by putting the GCS into the "teethless tank" corner.
If the devs where really wanting to create a GOOD representation of the GCS in STO, they should make her more like the Vesta. I know.. please hear me out.
I think the GCS should be come something like a Cruiser/science hybrid, with some extra firepower (something like a heavy Beam array or some console to reflect its massive firepower, similar to the Vestas aux cannons) but in general it should be more leaned towards science.
But just because the devs didn't really did their homework and made the Galaxy a toothless brick, doesn't mean it has to stay like that forever. I see that most positions (tank, DD, and whatever) are filled by other ships in STO, which is ok, since i never saw the Galaxy Class as a specialized ship. As i said i'd rather like to see her become something unique.
I'd like to see it as either a Nebula type build Engineer focused with a science lt com and tac lt uni lt uni ensign or a mirror of the D'deridex as I believe it was stated in an episode of Next gen that it and the Galaxy where equal in firepower and shielding.
Well, to be fair, they both have a 1.0 shield modifier and 4 fore and 4 aft weapons.
heh
But I get that you're saying :P
I'd rather have the Avenger's layout than the double-D.
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~