Well, to be fair, they both have a 1.0 shield modifier and 4 fore and 4 aft weapons.
heh
But I get that you're saying :P
I'd rather have the Avenger's layout than the double-D.
Id rather have a system where i can chose my boff and console setup for the ship skin i want to play in lol. Avenger layout would be cool but doubt you'll see that tactical of a G-R. Maybe on G-x but doubtful on G-R.
The Ambassador we ultimately got in the 3rd Anniversary was everything the Galaxy should have been. Had the Galaxy been released with that layout, nobody would have complained.
At least i wouldn't complain about it.
I think they should have unlocked the GCS ship model for the ambassador, for those who have bought it at the C-Store or have a Fleet Galaxy.
Another idea would be to create a Mirror Galaxy Class with the BOFF/Console Layout of the T5 Ambassador and vice versa. (the same thing they did with the Star Cruiser and Assault Cruiser)
Edit:
Those mirror ships wouldn't be Lockbox ships, but instead buyable through the C-Store, with a discount for eveyone who have already bought the G-R.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
The GCS was never potrayed as the fleet repair ship going from one place to the next seeking out tiny ships 20 light years away from the nearest starbase to repair
Its a battleship/exploration ship able to handle any encounter from scientic research repair or down and dirty captial ship battles for extended times without any support
The best most durable most firepower ship the federation was capable of making the flagship of the entire Fleet The ship sent onto the most dangerous encounters
Thats what a GCS is not this .................thing STO has made it into
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I seriously don't understand why people are wanting to change ships to suit the imbalanced nature of gameplay when it is the gameplay itself that needs fixing. The Galaxy is a tank with 5 Eng console slots... so what? It's comparable to other ships its level... the problems lie in potency of those 5 eng consoles and the impact it has in-game, rather than the 5 Eng consoles themselves. And the solution to those problems is definitely not 'increase the DPS of everything"...
If you want a Tactical Galaxy, wait for the Gal-X revamp. But leave the Gal-R alone. Let's focus on making the 5 Eng console slots worthwhile and tanks needed in gameplay instead.
I seriously don't understand why people are wanting to change ships to suit the imbalanced nature of gameplay when it is the gameplay itself that needs fixing. The Galaxy is a tank with 5 Eng console slots... so what? It's comparable to other ships its level... the problems lie in potency of those 5 eng consoles and the impact it has in-game. And the solution to those problems is definitely not 'increase the DPS of everything"...
Too answer your question in one word
Immersion
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
lol 484 pages long, and nothing addressed. lollolol talk about fast customer service
Actually much more before the cens... before it was cleaned up.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I seriously don't understand why people are wanting to change ships to suit the imbalanced nature of gameplay when it is the gameplay itself that needs fixing.
....
If you want a Tactical Galaxy, wait for the Gal-X revamp. But leave the Gal-R alone. Let's focus on making the 5 Eng console slots worthwhile and tanks needed in gameplay instead.
I seriously don't understand why people think that they have to oppose one to achieve the other.
If it isnt damaged its a good as when it was first produced
What counts is whats inside the hull..It can be as modern as something you have to build from scratch
just because its new doesnt make it better....just new
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
and you are telling me that Excelsior and Sovereign are superior tactical platforms???!!!???
The Galaxy-class is one of the largest and most powerful Federation starship classes....
Very nicely put, the best description of Starfleet I have read here.
It's a shame that most Star Trek game developers don't know things like that.
Instead people like angrtarg and others have to persuade other people (and devs whichis even more sad) day after day, because obviously most don't even understand what Star trek is about.
Serioulsy i am shocked about the opinion most ppl (and devs) have about Star Trek, they actually seem to think it is just a generic Sci fi universe with a generic sci fi humanity and a generic Sci fi military.
To be honest i do not have the patience to argue and explain it on a daily basis.
So angrytarg and others have my full respect for their work.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I called Starfleet a military as Starfleet is a military. It's not a military we can compare to throughout our own history, but make no mistake it is a military organization who have a lot of different duties to perform and maintain during peacetime where it is more relaxed and Exploration and Scientific missions become the priority as that is what the Federation is about.
It only becomes a true military we can relate to when engaged in a war, such as the Dominion War. If Starfleet weren't the primary force for defense or offense for the Federation which in modern day is our armed forces. Then what exactly is Starfleet if not the Federations Military and who else within the Federation falls into the category of being the Federations armed forces during conflicts. After all it was Starfleet that fought the Borg,Romulans,Klingons,Cardassians ect no other bracnh of the federation.
Starfleet operate a vast array of starships which are as combat capable as they are at exploring and holding 1st contact diplomatic missions and the like. Everyone not part of the Federation sees Starfleet as a military, the only people who do not is the Federation themselves, because by nature they are peaceful society, but have to have ships capable of defense and ending wars otherwise they'd all be speaking Klingon or Romulan by now.
Its not wrong to call or think of Starfleet as a Military. It just goes against the Ideals of star trek to think of the federation as having one. Its kinda taboo for the Federation, just like designating Battleships as Explorers or Warships as escorts.
I called Starfleet a military as Starfleet is a military. It's not a military we can compare to throughout our own history, but make no mistake it is a military organization who have a lot of different duties to perform and maintain during peacetime where it is more relaxed and Exploration and Scientific missions become the priority as that is what the Federation is about.
It only becomes a true military we can relate to when engaged in a war, such as the Dominion War. If Starfleet weren't the primary force for defense or offense for the Federation which in modern day is our armed forces. Then what exactly is Starfleet if not the Federations Military and who else within the Federation falls into the category of being the Federations armed forces during conflicts. After all it was Starfleet that fought the Borg,Romulans,Klingons,Cardassians ect no other bracnh of the federation.
Starfleet operate a vast array of starships which are as combat capable as they are at exploring and holding 1st contact diplomatic missions and the like. Everyone not part of the Federation sees Starfleet as a military, the only people who do not is the Federation themselves, because by nature they are peaceful society, but have to have ships capable of defense and ending wars otherwise they'd all be speaking Klingon or Romulan by now.
Its not wrong to call or think of Starfleet as a Military. It just goes against the Ideals of star trek to think of the federation as having one. Its kinda taboo for the Federation, just like designating Battleships as Explorers or Warships as escorts.
The point is that Starfleet is MAINLY the sucessor of NASA, not the US military. (which easily gets to sweep under the carpet by most ppl, including the devs.)
As angrytarg said, Starfleets job is to protect the federation even with force at wartimes. But it is not primary a military organisation, no matter how other species and factions may perceive it. Thats the difference.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Supergirl has some valid points. Starfleet has long been established as the Federation's military branch. However, Starfleet's mission has always been one of peace - to prevent wars, to enforce laws, to observe its Directives, and protect the people in the Federation as well as galactic peace and stability. Is it a military? Technically yes. Is it an active military? Only when the Federation is under attack by another organization (Cardassian skirmishes, Dominion War, etc.).
Now does the Galaxy-class really fit the image of Federation Starfleet? Yes. The families it carries onboard is a microcosm of Starfleet's cooperative nature. It can defend itself fairly well, it can be used for attacks only if needed, but primarily it exists to explore the galaxy, protect the Federation, and apply diplomatic and humanitarian assistance to planets both within and with-out the Federation.
The "problem" lies with the STO version of the Galaxy-class. Is it wrong? Not necessarily. Is it a perfect fit? Of course not, no ship in the game, not even the Defiant, is a perfect duplicate of its TV counterpart. Is it good enough? That's up to each person to decide.
Oh, and hello everyone, it's been a while. Nice to see all of those banners!
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
i thought riping apart the galaxy X would be easy, this ill be a cake walk by comparison
were have you been all those times i explained how arrays worked? based entirely on their on screen operation, and their tech spelled out about them in the tech manuals? the beauty of this spelled out in detail array function is that im relieved of any need to try to come up with some explanation for how they work myself, that would surly be biased 1 way or the other. theres the oficial, sanctioned detailing i can point to as needed. do i need to spell it out in detail again? reference my sources like the page number of the tech manual again? suffice to say, length= per shot power potential, leaving smaller arrays nearly irreverent in their presence.
no shield impact effects = no shields. the E-D in 3 shots vaporized more volume of the borg cube then there was volume of the enterrpise D it self. there was clear vaporization after impact, especially the close up on that shot through the edge. there are few and far between detailed beam hits on hull, another that comes to mind is the hits the uss galaxy takes from a defense platform, on hit a large chunk of the secondary hull was vaporized around the point of the beam impacts. torps or energy cannons did a number on the saucer too. then theres hand phasers doing the same things a number of times in trek. the lance's effect was completely different, but it doesn't exactly prove its worth.
wow. seriously, wow. to go that far, you better know everything about everything, and me not able to back up everything i say from on screen or manual sources. to bad i actually can. whats this TRIBBLE about the stargazer? there was never any reference to that thing being fast with 4 engines, the only canon description of the class is that it was underpowered. it looks like they took all those constitition class that never showed up in tng, took them apart, and combined 2 of them into the constellation class lol.
i find it almost delightful that in this parafraph you get the number of nacelles the prometheus has wrong. technically, it has 6, wile separated. one on the top and bottom of the saucer unit. number on neccels is not an indicator of anything, the number of warp coils, their advanced-ness and effiency, the peek output of the warp core, and the size of warp bubble they have to project is what determines speed. the neccles are just packageing for the ideal or target ratio. the uss pasture went the exact same warp 13 the 3 neccel E-D did, clearly that speed is not speciel, and its just a warp factor thats part of a reconfigured warp scale anyway. not faster then warp 10 on the current warp scale, thats not a thing. i bet you think borg transwarp and slip stream is faster then warp 10 too. lol at the voyager warp 10 thing, tom paris, in a shuttle craft, occupies all points in the universe simultaneously and turns into a lizard. right. theres practically a public apology for that episode.
if you even payed attention to what happened in AGT, you would know that the entire chain of events was instigated by Q, for picard to unwittingly set in motion for him to try to unravel and solve. the whole thing was a test for him, and with Q's powers he recreated the past outside continuity and created a reasonable future for it all to play out in, for picard to phase too due to some syndrome he gave him for the purpose of the test.
just for future reference, if i post something definitive relating to the canon, know that im not going to say something i cant present evidence to back up. save yourself the embarrassment of calling me out as a fraud before responding, and double check what i say first at least. wouldn't want to be guilty of the same creative license your accusing me of.
Your agument thinking that smaller arrays are irrelivent is so way in left field you need to complain about some other science fiction movie. If they are so irrellivent then why was the Intrepid, Defiant, Prometheus, and Sovereign class loaded with small arrays? The Enterprise E itself was sporting only four large arrays and the other 12 arrays are little small arrays to shoot blind spots or have better targeting angles.
Let me tell you again, the borg didn't have shields to deal with Federation weapons at that time. Notice in the later episodes and shows, including the movie, "First Contact" that it took alot more beams and topedoes to get that giant hole that you would like to have. You still loose your agument about a vaporized hole.
The USS Star Empire back in the 23rd centry also had a 3rd warp engine for extra power. The count of warp nacelle that you call yourselve being a genius rebuting me but in turn made yourself look more ignorant and closed your own argument. I said 5, you corrected me and said it was 6. Well, if it is 6 then why did you think they are irrelevent? In soft canon, the USS Star Empire also had 3 warp naccelles and it was able to jump 3 warp factors faster than the first USS Enterprise 1701 of the 23rd century which speed was then warp 8.
In an alternative future caused by Q the Enterprise had undergone extensive refits including the addition of a third warp nacelle and several additional phaser cannons. The third warp nacelle enhanced the power and speed of the ship. The vessel also had a cloaking device at this time. Her commanding officer was Captain Sam Lavelle, who retired in 2395. (TNGnovelization: All Good Things..., CCG card: "Future Enterprise")
In 2370, Q allowed Picard to shift his consciousness between three parallel timelines, one in the past, one in the present and one in the future from Picard's point of view, in order for him to create an anti-time eruption. The eruption was linking these universes together. When it was sealed into subspace, the coexisting timelines also collapsed. (TNG: "All Good Things...")
I swear you don't read Star Trek material or watch the shows. Maybe you do watch the show but instead of sticking to the script and accepting what was presented, you come up with your own conclusions to the story, mixing opinion with fact. Don't use your opinion as fact. You are not Gene Roddenberry or any of the writers, so quit trying to change the story to what you think it should be. Bring quotes or refences of Star Trek material to prove your points. Not once have you brought any references. Like a good true fan, I owned all the episode and can look at any show at will. Also you can look at countless shows and material on the internet so there is no excuse to be making up stories about the episodes. When in an argument about Star Trek facts, I look at the sites availble online to make sure I am right or I wouldn't say anything. If you have something against the whole show and everything is stupid to you then don't talk to us about it. Make your own thread about "I hate Star Trek and everything is stupid to me."
You don't want to be known as a fraud, in your own words, then quit using you opinions about the show as fact. If you don't post a verbatum reference from the show or Star Trek sources to rebut someone then people will call you out as making up stories. Everyone has internet access in this forum so there is nothing you can say that we can't look up for ourselves.
If immersion is the one thing you hope to get out of STO, then boy are you gonna be disappointed. Not sure why you feel commanding a 70 year old design that's the equivalent of current designs is "immersive" either. It's rubbish, just like all the other non-canon, World of Warcrafty, immersion destroying, junk in this game.
The same reason the 80+ year old Excelsior design got alot of love while it was never the iconic ship on the screen. The old B'rel BOP, the K'tinga, the Vorcha, ETC. the point is people want their favorite ships in the game to get a fair shake in competion with the new ships that Cryptic pushes out. Almost all the other old ships go love with speed, firpower and shielding while the Galaxy just got HP and sauser sep.
Very nicely put, the best description of Starfleet I have read here.
Yeah, angrytarg's ellaborate explanations are always joy to behold - especially because I share that view on Star Trek related topics wit him. How these so basic things that are the essence of Star Trek get lost to some people I will never understand.
Very nicely put, the best description of Starfleet I have read here.
You guys forgot that in a time of war that changed. The Enterprise D was not the only Galaxy Class. In "Yesterdays Enterprise," there were no families onboard but was able to be filled with more than 1000 troops. After the start of the Dominion war Starfleet quit puting families onboard starships at the front lines because of the massive loss of casualties.
Your agument thinking that smaller arrays are irrelivent is so way in left field you need to complain about some other science fiction movie. If they are so irrellivent then why was the Intrepid, Defiant, Prometheus, and Sovereign class loaded with small arrays? The Enterprise E itself was sporting only four large arrays and the other 12 arrays are little small arrays to shoot blind spots or have better targeting angles.
these super sleek neckless ships sure are cool looking huh? to bad all that gets in the way of their main gun fireing arcs. the sov cant even line up its dorsal and ventral arrays on a target smaller then a borg cube, like a galaxy can. do you get these numbers wrong on purpose or something? the sov only has 3 large arrays, on the saucer. they are its most powerful guns, and if a target is in their arc they will fire from them every time, over smaller arrays. they are irreverent in the sense that they are so down on potential per shot firepower, due to having a fraction of the emitters longer arrays have, but they are better then nothing.
Let me tell you again, the borg didn't have shields to deal with Federation weapons at that time. Notice in the later episodes and shows, including the movie, "First Contact" that it took alot more beams and topedoes to get that giant hole that you would like to have. You still loose your agument about a vaporized hole.
was this supposed to make sense? i never argued that borg have traditional shields, its clear they just have hull that can be made immune to damage after they magically adapt to things. focus fire can still make a hole like that, after adaptation, clearly. that disproves nothing, and doesn't magically make all the other vaporization examples not happen. do what you keep going on about, go watch the fleet battle vs those defense platforms, you will see impacts melt huge holes in akiras, d'deridex, vorchas and galaxys in that fight.
The USS Star Empire back in the 23rd centry also had a 3rd warp engine for extra power. The count of warp nacelle that you call yourselve being a genius rebuting me but in turn made yourself look more ignorant and closed your own argument. I said 5, you corrected me and said it was 6. Well, if it is 6 then why did you think they are irrelevent? In soft canon, the USS Star Empire also had 3 warp naccelles and it was able to jump 3 warp factors faster than the first USS Enterprise 1701 of the 23rd century which speed was then warp 8.
"for extra power" what does that mean? warp cores are the power source, naccels turn plasma into a warp field. that ship even being canon is incredibly shaky at best. and all the multi nacelle ships since then have not shown themselves to be especially special. the prometheus is the last canon federation ship introduced. not counting all the non canon since then, it is the newest ship period. and most advanced, its fastest because its newest. its got 4+2 nacelles so the MVAM sections can function independently at warp. the saucer can only maintain a current velocity for a wile with those tiny nacelles. its nacelle arrangement has everything to do with the combat tactics it used to attack that nebula class.
In an alternative future caused by Q the Enterprise had undergone extensive refits including the addition of a third warp nacelle and several additional phaser cannons. The third warp nacelle enhanced the power and speed of the ship. The vessel also had a cloaking device at this time. Her commanding officer was Captain Sam Lavelle, who retired in 2395. (TNGnovelization: All Good Things..., CCG card: "Future Enterprise")
In 2370, Q allowed Picard to shift his consciousness between three parallel timelines, one in the past, one in the present and one in the future from Picard's point of view, in order for him to create an anti-time eruption. The eruption was linking these universes together. When it was sealed into subspace, the coexisting timelines also collapsed. (TNG: "All Good Things...")
I swear you don't read Star Trek material or watch the shows. Maybe you do watch the show but instead of sticking to the script and accepting what was presented, you come up with your own conclusions to the story, mixing opinion with fact. Don't use your opinion as fact. You are not Gene Roddenberry or any of the writers, so quit trying to change the story to what you think it should be. Bring quotes or refences of Star Trek material to prove your points. Not once have you brought any references. Like a good true fan, I owned all the episode and can look at any show at will. Also you can look at countless shows and material on the internet so there is no excuse to be making up stories about the episodes. When in an argument about Star Trek facts, I look at the sites availble online to make sure I am right or I wouldn't say anything. If you have something against the whole show and everything is stupid to you then don't talk to us about it. Make your own thread about "I hate Star Trek and everything is stupid to me."
You don't want to be known as a fraud, in your own words, then quit using you opinions about the show as fact. If you don't post a verbatum reference from the show or Star Trek sources to rebut someone then people will call you out as making up stories. Everyone has internet access in this forum so there is nothing you can say that we can't look up for ourselves.
maybe, just maybe, you have completely lost all subjectivity and perspective here, to attack me like this for calling out the oh so silly galaxyX. this is what happens when someone's head canon gets attacked, they become like the voth, in how they go after anyone questioning 'the doctrine'. nothing i talk about violates canon, or comes into conflict with the tech in all official, valid sources of it. most of what you find on the internet is peoples own extrapolations, and thats fine, its all in good fun. its not strictly canon though. i would immediately change a position on something if something i say was actually pointed out as in conflict with canon, honest. no one has been able to yet, on my current set of parameters i describe.
heres a slew of sources, for just about everything
i love how consistent trek weapon effects are, from the low tech tng to the cgi. same with array functionality. for all the narrative inconsistency, they didn't do to bad with weapon effects. other then there being shields missing completely from ships way to often.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17602666/Star-Trek-TNG-Technical-Manual-182-Pages
tng tech manual, page 126 starts talking about phasers
"Material in space can be vaporized, ionized,and eliminated as a hazard to spaceflight. It did not take anenormous leap of imagination, of course, to realize thatdirected energy could also prove to be an effective weapon system."
phasers are intended to vaporize hazards, or enemy ship hulls too
"A typical large phaser array aboard the USS Enterprise, such as the upper dorsal array on the Saucer Module,consists of two hundred emitter segments in a dense linear ar-rangement for optimal control of firing order, thermal effects,field halos, and target impact. Groups of emitters are supplied by redundant sets of energy feeds from the primary trunks of the electro plasma system (EPS), and are similarly intercon-nected by fire control, thermal management, and sensor lines.The visible hull surface configuration of the phaser is a long shallow raised strip, the bulk of the hardware submerged within the vehicle frame."
arrays are made of daisy chained emitters. the largest on a galaxy class has 200 of them.
"The flow regulator leads into the plasma distribution manifold (PDM), which branches into two hundred supply conduits to an equal number of prefire cham-bers."
each emitter is supplied power, and holds its own power, and can fire its own beam. each is aparently its own self contained unit and can receave, store and fire its own energy.
"Energy from all discharged segments passes direction-ally over neighboring segments due to force coupling, con-verging on the release point, where the beam will emerge and travel at c to the target."
each emitter, when you see that visible glow effect on in the show, passes its stored energy to the actual firing point. and there you have it, leangh which is number of emitters, having a direct effect on per shot firepower.
what ship has the biggest arrays? by more then a factor of 2 galaxy/nebula. since this is how all arrays work, its pretty easy to see how all other array using ships stack up in comparison.
The ability to eat a one-shot attack in a Besta while remaining totally unscathed isn't really a thing that proves anything, because that's pretty much the ship's one-shot magic power.
Oh im not talking about using the Vestas magic power. That would be about as effective as saying the Intrepid is an Epic tank because once every three minutes it cant take the ultimate pounding.
I meant just using powers and standard consoles, not its uni's.
But maybe i will revisit the Galaxy on this toon, and see what i can make of it with one of my builds.
Part of the problem i find is TT doesnt move the shields fast enough in the big slow girl, and we all know you cannot turn fast enough to get your shield facings moved.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Realistically, the number of arrays a ship has doesn't matter much: All your energy weapons are ultimately driven by the same reactor core, and once you've tapped that, you're just producing more, weaker beams. Redundant arrays exist only for arc coverage, you don't actually improve your firepower by getting more of them on target. STO sort of misses this point, and that is why on the show, you never saw massive beam spam like in STO.
these super sleek neckless ships sure are cool looking huh? to bad all that gets in the way of their main gun fireing arcs. the sov cant even line up its dorsal and ventral arrays on a target smaller then a borg cube, like a galaxy can. do you get these numbers wrong on purpose or something? the sov only has 3 large arrays, on the saucer. they are its most powerful guns, and if a target is in their arc they will fire from them every time, over smaller arrays. they are irreverent in the sense that they are so down on potential per shot firepower, due to having a fraction of the emitters longer arrays have, but they are better then nothing.
was this supposed to make sense? i never argued that borg have traditional shields, its clear they just have hull that can be made immune to damage after they magically adapt to things. focus fire can still make a hole like that, after adaptation, clearly. that disproves nothing, and doesn't magically make all the other vaporization examples not happen. do what you keep going on about, go watch the fleet battle vs those defense platforms, you will see impacts melt huge holes in akiras, d'deridex, vorchas and galaxys in that fight.
"for extra power" what does that mean? warp cores are the power source, naccels turn plasma into a warp field. that ship even being canon is incredibly shaky at best. and all the multi nacelle ships since then have not shown themselves to be especially special. the prometheus is the last canon federation ship introduced. not counting all the non canon since then, it is the newest ship period. and most advanced, its fastest because its newest. its got 4+2 nacelles so the MVAM sections can function independently at warp. the saucer can only maintain a current velocity for a wile with those tiny nacelles. its nacelle arrangement has everything to do with the combat tactics it used to attack that nebula class.
memory beta :rolleyes: that specializes in the non hard canon. how memory alpha describes AGT is basically the same as i did lol.
maybe, just maybe, you have completely lost all subjectivity and perspective here, to attack me like this for calling out the oh so silly galaxyX. this is what happens when someone's head canon gets attacked, they become like the voth, in how they go after anyone questioning 'the doctrine'. nothing i talk about violates canon, or comes into conflict with the tech in all official, valid sources of it. most of what you find on the internet is peoples own extrapolations, and thats fine, its all in good fun. its not strictly canon though. i would immediately change a position on something if something i say was actually pointed out as in conflict with canon, honest. no one has been able to yet, on my current set of parameters i describe.
heres a slew of sources, for just about everything
i love how consistent trek weapon effects are, from the low tech tng to the cgi. same with array functionality. for all the narrative inconsistency, they didn't do to bad with weapon effects. other then there being shields missing completely from ships way to often.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17602666/Star-Trek-TNG-Technical-Manual-182-Pages
tng tech manual, page 126 starts talking about phasers
"Material in space can be vaporized, ionized,and eliminated as a hazard to spaceflight. It did not take anenormous leap of imagination, of course, to realize thatdirected energy could also prove to be an effective weapon system."
phasers are intended to vaporize hazards, or enemy ship hulls too
"A typical large phaser array aboard the USS Enterprise, such as the upper dorsal array on the Saucer Module,consists of two hundred emitter segments in a dense linear ar-rangement for optimal control of firing order, thermal effects,field halos, and target impact. Groups of emitters are supplied by redundant sets of energy feeds from the primary trunks of the electro plasma system (EPS), and are similarly intercon-nected by fire control, thermal management, and sensor lines.The visible hull surface configuration of the phaser is a long shallow raised strip, the bulk of the hardware submerged within the vehicle frame."
arrays are made of daisy chained emitters. the largest on a galaxy class has 200 of them.
"The flow regulator leads into the plasma distribution manifold (PDM), which branches into two hundred supply conduits to an equal number of prefire cham-bers."
each emitter is supplied power, and holds its own power, and can fire its own beam. each is aparently its own self contained unit and can receave, store and fire its own energy.
"Energy from all discharged segments passes direction-ally over neighboring segments due to force coupling, con-verging on the release point, where the beam will emerge and travel at c to the target."
each emitter, when you see that visible glow effect on in the show, passes its stored energy to the actual firing point. and there you have it, leangh which is number of emitters, having a direct effect on per shot firepower.
what ship has the biggest arrays? by more then a factor of 2 galaxy/nebula. since this is how all arrays work, its pretty easy to see how all other array using ships stack up in comparison.
You don't have to explain to me the mechanics to me on how phaser arrays work. The was never a point when the phaser from the biggest array blasted right through shields and hull of an equal warship, not even on the small Klingon D12 Bird of Prey or it would have been blown away with on shot. The Lance, on the other hand, blasted completely through the shields and thick hull of the Negh'Var Waship and kept going on. You could have lined some more ships above it and got them destroyed as well.
Ok I miss counted the number of large arrays on the Sovereign. The are 5, not 4. On oval shape one on top and 4 slightly shorter ones on the ventral side of sauser.
Sovereign Class:
Tactical systems
Deflector shields on display
The Sovereign-class starship had several weaponry enhancements over previous starship classes, including quantum torpedoes as well as photon torpedoes, and numerous phaser banks and arrays.
The USS Enterprise-E attacks the Scimitar.
The Sovereign-class originally employed twelve phaser arrays at key locations throughout the ship's hull. Seven dorsal phaser arrays were located on the primary hull, one extending around the saucer section, giving it an oval appearance. Six smaller arrays covered the aft dorsal firing arcs and were located along the aft portion of the saucer section, above the main shuttlebay.
[***Four ventral phaser arrays were located on the primary hull,*** extending around in nearly a half circle on both the starboard and port ventral sides of the saucer section. A single phaser array was located along the ventral section of the engineering hull, running perpendicular to the hull. (Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: Insurrection) During the refit, four were added to the trailing edges of the warp nacelle pylons (one dorsal and one ventral for each pylon) bringing the phaser array count to sixteen. (Star Trek Nemesis)]
Primary hull was always considered the sauser section of the Federation ships.
Memory Alpa did not describe All Good Things as you did, so quit lying!!!!!!!! I have copied and pasted the quotes from Memory Alpha and gave you the references. Do I have to highlight the words to you , too? You still arguing with no pasted references. This guy makes up his own technical data with his own opinions. I am done talking to you.
I have never said anything about Sovereign being better than the Galaxy. I was proving my point these weapons all serve a purpose and are not useless. The more you have the more could be used as some will get damaged in battle. I think the Galaxy would have done a better job against the Scimitar because it has alot more hull than the Sovereign and it could fire a spread of torpedoes to find the cloaked ship, doing more damage then quick phaser blast. If the Scimitar was ramed by a Galaxy class it might of destroy it or nearly destroyed because the Enterpise D's Sauser crash through a mountain top and still was intact for crash landing.
Comments
Id rather have a system where i can chose my boff and console setup for the ship skin i want to play in lol. Avenger layout would be cool but doubt you'll see that tactical of a G-R. Maybe on G-x but doubtful on G-R.
At least i wouldn't complain about it.
I think they should have unlocked the GCS ship model for the ambassador, for those who have bought it at the C-Store or have a Fleet Galaxy.
Another idea would be to create a Mirror Galaxy Class with the BOFF/Console Layout of the T5 Ambassador and vice versa. (the same thing they did with the Star Cruiser and Assault Cruiser)
Edit:
Those mirror ships wouldn't be Lockbox ships, but instead buyable through the C-Store, with a discount for eveyone who have already bought the G-R.
Its a battleship/exploration ship able to handle any encounter from scientic research repair or down and dirty captial ship battles for extended times without any support
The best most durable most firepower ship the federation was capable of making the flagship of the entire Fleet The ship sent onto the most dangerous encounters
Thats what a GCS is not this .................thing STO has made it into
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
If you want a Tactical Galaxy, wait for the Gal-X revamp. But leave the Gal-R alone. Let's focus on making the 5 Eng console slots worthwhile and tanks needed in gameplay instead.
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Too answer your question in one word
Immersion
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
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Actually much more before the cens... before it was cleaned up.
I seriously dont understand....your words
Thats a question
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I seriously don't understand why people think that they have to oppose one to achieve the other.
If it isnt damaged its a good as when it was first produced
What counts is whats inside the hull..It can be as modern as something you have to build from scratch
just because its new doesnt make it better....just new
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
This.
Unless Cryptic decides to implement holodeck malfunctions or aliens that kidnap your BOFFs.
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Thats why this thread is so long perhaps
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Armament: 12/14 phaser arrays
2 torpedo launchers 250 photon torpedoes
antimatter mines
Excelsior
10 dual emitter phaser banks
6 single emitter phaser banks
6 torpedo launchers
Sovereign
12 phaser arrays (before refit)
16 phaser arrays {after refit}
1 forward quantum torpedo launcher
3 forward photon torpedo launchers
6 aft photon torpedo launchers
and you are telling me that Excelsior and Sovereign are superior tactical platforms???!!!???
The Galaxy-class is one of the largest and most powerful Federation starship classes....
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Instead people like angrtarg and others have to persuade other people (and devs whichis even more sad) day after day, because obviously most don't even understand what Star trek is about.
Serioulsy i am shocked about the opinion most ppl (and devs) have about Star Trek, they actually seem to think it is just a generic Sci fi universe with a generic sci fi humanity and a generic Sci fi military.
To be honest i do not have the patience to argue and explain it on a daily basis.
So angrytarg and others have my full respect for their work.
It only becomes a true military we can relate to when engaged in a war, such as the Dominion War. If Starfleet weren't the primary force for defense or offense for the Federation which in modern day is our armed forces. Then what exactly is Starfleet if not the Federations Military and who else within the Federation falls into the category of being the Federations armed forces during conflicts. After all it was Starfleet that fought the Borg,Romulans,Klingons,Cardassians ect no other bracnh of the federation.
Starfleet operate a vast array of starships which are as combat capable as they are at exploring and holding 1st contact diplomatic missions and the like. Everyone not part of the Federation sees Starfleet as a military, the only people who do not is the Federation themselves, because by nature they are peaceful society, but have to have ships capable of defense and ending wars otherwise they'd all be speaking Klingon or Romulan by now.
Its not wrong to call or think of Starfleet as a Military. It just goes against the Ideals of star trek to think of the federation as having one. Its kinda taboo for the Federation, just like designating Battleships as Explorers or Warships as escorts.
As angrytarg said, Starfleets job is to protect the federation even with force at wartimes. But it is not primary a military organisation, no matter how other species and factions may perceive it. Thats the difference.
Now does the Galaxy-class really fit the image of Federation Starfleet? Yes. The families it carries onboard is a microcosm of Starfleet's cooperative nature. It can defend itself fairly well, it can be used for attacks only if needed, but primarily it exists to explore the galaxy, protect the Federation, and apply diplomatic and humanitarian assistance to planets both within and with-out the Federation.
The "problem" lies with the STO version of the Galaxy-class. Is it wrong? Not necessarily. Is it a perfect fit? Of course not, no ship in the game, not even the Defiant, is a perfect duplicate of its TV counterpart. Is it good enough? That's up to each person to decide.
Oh, and hello everyone, it's been a while. Nice to see all of those banners!
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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Your agument thinking that smaller arrays are irrelivent is so way in left field you need to complain about some other science fiction movie. If they are so irrellivent then why was the Intrepid, Defiant, Prometheus, and Sovereign class loaded with small arrays? The Enterprise E itself was sporting only four large arrays and the other 12 arrays are little small arrays to shoot blind spots or have better targeting angles.
Let me tell you again, the borg didn't have shields to deal with Federation weapons at that time. Notice in the later episodes and shows, including the movie, "First Contact" that it took alot more beams and topedoes to get that giant hole that you would like to have. You still loose your agument about a vaporized hole.
The USS Star Empire back in the 23rd centry also had a 3rd warp engine for extra power. The count of warp nacelle that you call yourselve being a genius rebuting me but in turn made yourself look more ignorant and closed your own argument. I said 5, you corrected me and said it was 6. Well, if it is 6 then why did you think they are irrelevent? In soft canon, the USS Star Empire also had 3 warp naccelles and it was able to jump 3 warp factors faster than the first USS Enterprise 1701 of the 23rd century which speed was then warp 8.
In an alternative future caused by Q the Enterprise had undergone extensive refits including the addition of a third warp nacelle and several additional phaser cannons. The third warp nacelle enhanced the power and speed of the ship. The vessel also had a cloaking device at this time. Her commanding officer was Captain Sam Lavelle, who retired in 2395. (TNGnovelization: All Good Things..., CCG card: "Future Enterprise")
Ref:http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Star_Empire,
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701-D)#Alternate_realities
Oh yeah the Q imagination? Read this.
In 2370, Q allowed Picard to shift his consciousness between three parallel timelines, one in the past, one in the present and one in the future from Picard's point of view, in order for him to create an anti-time eruption. The eruption was linking these universes together. When it was sealed into subspace, the coexisting timelines also collapsed. (TNG: "All Good Things...")
Ref:http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Alternate_timeline
I swear you don't read Star Trek material or watch the shows. Maybe you do watch the show but instead of sticking to the script and accepting what was presented, you come up with your own conclusions to the story, mixing opinion with fact. Don't use your opinion as fact. You are not Gene Roddenberry or any of the writers, so quit trying to change the story to what you think it should be. Bring quotes or refences of Star Trek material to prove your points. Not once have you brought any references. Like a good true fan, I owned all the episode and can look at any show at will. Also you can look at countless shows and material on the internet so there is no excuse to be making up stories about the episodes. When in an argument about Star Trek facts, I look at the sites availble online to make sure I am right or I wouldn't say anything. If you have something against the whole show and everything is stupid to you then don't talk to us about it. Make your own thread about "I hate Star Trek and everything is stupid to me."
You don't want to be known as a fraud, in your own words, then quit using you opinions about the show as fact. If you don't post a verbatum reference from the show or Star Trek sources to rebut someone then people will call you out as making up stories. Everyone has internet access in this forum so there is nothing you can say that we can't look up for ourselves.
The same reason the 80+ year old Excelsior design got alot of love while it was never the iconic ship on the screen. The old B'rel BOP, the K'tinga, the Vorcha, ETC. the point is people want their favorite ships in the game to get a fair shake in competion with the new ships that Cryptic pushes out. Almost all the other old ships go love with speed, firpower and shielding while the Galaxy just got HP and sauser sep.
Yeah, angrytarg's ellaborate explanations are always joy to behold - especially because I share that view on Star Trek related topics wit him. How these so basic things that are the essence of Star Trek get lost to some people I will never understand.
You guys forgot that in a time of war that changed. The Enterprise D was not the only Galaxy Class. In "Yesterdays Enterprise," there were no families onboard but was able to be filled with more than 1000 troops. After the start of the Dominion war Starfleet quit puting families onboard starships at the front lines because of the massive loss of casualties.
these super sleek neckless ships sure are cool looking huh? to bad all that gets in the way of their main gun fireing arcs. the sov cant even line up its dorsal and ventral arrays on a target smaller then a borg cube, like a galaxy can. do you get these numbers wrong on purpose or something? the sov only has 3 large arrays, on the saucer. they are its most powerful guns, and if a target is in their arc they will fire from them every time, over smaller arrays. they are irreverent in the sense that they are so down on potential per shot firepower, due to having a fraction of the emitters longer arrays have, but they are better then nothing.
was this supposed to make sense? i never argued that borg have traditional shields, its clear they just have hull that can be made immune to damage after they magically adapt to things. focus fire can still make a hole like that, after adaptation, clearly. that disproves nothing, and doesn't magically make all the other vaporization examples not happen. do what you keep going on about, go watch the fleet battle vs those defense platforms, you will see impacts melt huge holes in akiras, d'deridex, vorchas and galaxys in that fight.
"for extra power" what does that mean? warp cores are the power source, naccels turn plasma into a warp field. that ship even being canon is incredibly shaky at best. and all the multi nacelle ships since then have not shown themselves to be especially special. the prometheus is the last canon federation ship introduced. not counting all the non canon since then, it is the newest ship period. and most advanced, its fastest because its newest. its got 4+2 nacelles so the MVAM sections can function independently at warp. the saucer can only maintain a current velocity for a wile with those tiny nacelles. its nacelle arrangement has everything to do with the combat tactics it used to attack that nebula class.
memory beta :rolleyes: that specializes in the non hard canon. how memory alpha describes AGT is basically the same as i did lol.
maybe, just maybe, you have completely lost all subjectivity and perspective here, to attack me like this for calling out the oh so silly galaxyX. this is what happens when someone's head canon gets attacked, they become like the voth, in how they go after anyone questioning 'the doctrine'. nothing i talk about violates canon, or comes into conflict with the tech in all official, valid sources of it. most of what you find on the internet is peoples own extrapolations, and thats fine, its all in good fun. its not strictly canon though. i would immediately change a position on something if something i say was actually pointed out as in conflict with canon, honest. no one has been able to yet, on my current set of parameters i describe.
heres a slew of sources, for just about everything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d734afLFPds&playnext=1&list=PLF37F38EA72A03613
galaxy class dealing damage, even with the outdated effects often times was shown outdoing the sovereign's best in nemisis, for shear volume of fire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM
most fed ship 'spike' on screen observed. it only fired like that for about 3 seconds, it was only a small burst.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWi-pJLO2m4&feature=related
about 5:45 in, you see the weapon platform beams hitting hull and melting it away on every ship that gets hit by it.
i love how consistent trek weapon effects are, from the low tech tng to the cgi. same with array functionality. for all the narrative inconsistency, they didn't do to bad with weapon effects. other then there being shields missing completely from ships way to often.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17602666/Star-Trek-TNG-Technical-Manual-182-Pages
tng tech manual, page 126 starts talking about phasers
"Material in space can be vaporized, ionized,and eliminated as a hazard to spaceflight. It did not take anenormous leap of imagination, of course, to realize thatdirected energy could also prove to be an effective weapon system."
phasers are intended to vaporize hazards, or enemy ship hulls too
"A typical large phaser array aboard the USS Enterprise, such as the upper dorsal array on the Saucer Module,consists of two hundred emitter segments in a dense linear ar-rangement for optimal control of firing order, thermal effects,field halos, and target impact. Groups of emitters are supplied by redundant sets of energy feeds from the primary trunks of the electro plasma system (EPS), and are similarly intercon-nected by fire control, thermal management, and sensor lines.The visible hull surface configuration of the phaser is a long shallow raised strip, the bulk of the hardware submerged within the vehicle frame."
arrays are made of daisy chained emitters. the largest on a galaxy class has 200 of them.
"The flow regulator leads into the plasma distribution manifold (PDM), which branches into two hundred supply conduits to an equal number of prefire cham-bers."
each emitter is supplied power, and holds its own power, and can fire its own beam. each is aparently its own self contained unit and can receave, store and fire its own energy.
"Energy from all discharged segments passes direction-ally over neighboring segments due to force coupling, con-verging on the release point, where the beam will emerge and travel at c to the target."
each emitter, when you see that visible glow effect on in the show, passes its stored energy to the actual firing point. and there you have it, leangh which is number of emitters, having a direct effect on per shot firepower.
what ship has the biggest arrays? by more then a factor of 2 galaxy/nebula. since this is how all arrays work, its pretty easy to see how all other array using ships stack up in comparison.
Oh im not talking about using the Vestas magic power. That would be about as effective as saying the Intrepid is an Epic tank because once every three minutes it cant take the ultimate pounding.
I meant just using powers and standard consoles, not its uni's.
But maybe i will revisit the Galaxy on this toon, and see what i can make of it with one of my builds.
Part of the problem i find is TT doesnt move the shields fast enough in the big slow girl, and we all know you cannot turn fast enough to get your shield facings moved.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You don't have to explain to me the mechanics to me on how phaser arrays work. The was never a point when the phaser from the biggest array blasted right through shields and hull of an equal warship, not even on the small Klingon D12 Bird of Prey or it would have been blown away with on shot. The Lance, on the other hand, blasted completely through the shields and thick hull of the Negh'Var Waship and kept going on. You could have lined some more ships above it and got them destroyed as well.
Ok I miss counted the number of large arrays on the Sovereign. The are 5, not 4. On oval shape one on top and 4 slightly shorter ones on the ventral side of sauser.
Sovereign Class:
Tactical systems
Deflector shields on display
The Sovereign-class starship had several weaponry enhancements over previous starship classes, including quantum torpedoes as well as photon torpedoes, and numerous phaser banks and arrays.
The USS Enterprise-E attacks the Scimitar.
The Sovereign-class originally employed twelve phaser arrays at key locations throughout the ship's hull. Seven dorsal phaser arrays were located on the primary hull, one extending around the saucer section, giving it an oval appearance. Six smaller arrays covered the aft dorsal firing arcs and were located along the aft portion of the saucer section, above the main shuttlebay.
[***Four ventral phaser arrays were located on the primary hull,*** extending around in nearly a half circle on both the starboard and port ventral sides of the saucer section. A single phaser array was located along the ventral section of the engineering hull, running perpendicular to the hull. (Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: Insurrection) During the refit, four were added to the trailing edges of the warp nacelle pylons (one dorsal and one ventral for each pylon) bringing the phaser array count to sixteen. (Star Trek Nemesis)]
Ref:http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sovereign_class
Primary hull was always considered the sauser section of the Federation ships.
Memory Alpa did not describe All Good Things as you did, so quit lying!!!!!!!! I have copied and pasted the quotes from Memory Alpha and gave you the references. Do I have to highlight the words to you , too? You still arguing with no pasted references. This guy makes up his own technical data with his own opinions. I am done talking to you.