...
I would however prefer a store version over a fleet version. Simply because I'm not in a fleet and I believe there are still other people like me. I'd like to be able to have a decent ship and decent gear without having to succumb to the fleet system. I'm doing my personal fleet grinding all the time anyway, why do I have to do it a second time? I'd like to craft at least Mk XII phaser/disruptor gear for myself (make hybrid weapons fleet exclusive or something), I'd like usable ship and personal equipment that does not look like TRIBBLE without joining a fleet. Make fleet stuff still 2% superior or something. I don't know. But I don't want to be treated like a 2nd rate player anymore
100% agree.
I would prefer a C-Store version over a Fleet version.
That's how i see it:
Already implemented ships shouldn't be changed much. Cryptic should just turn the GCS Ensign and Lt.Cmdr. Stations into universal ones.
No matter if thats the same layout as the Odyssey. They are both Exploration cruisers, one beautiful, one looking like a fat Excelsior. So in the end it would be a matter of their special consoles and the personal taste of the player. (since Cryptic does not seem to be interested in adding alternative ship parts for the Odyssey, both ships would complement one another very well IMO.)
Additionally Cryptic could release a "mirror" variant (maybe as a Lockbox ship, to limit its quantity), which is a fully tactical focussed GCS, able to use both G -X and G -R ship parts. Same BOFF and Console Layout as the Jem?Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier.
The ability to equip fightesr gets deleted without replacement.
(to take the wind out of the GCS haters sails)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I would prefer a C-Store version over a Fleet version.
That's how i see it:
Already implemented ships shouldn't be changed much. Cryptic should just turn the GCS Ensign and Lt.Cmdr. Stations into universal ones.
No matter if thats the same layout as the Odyssey. They are both Exploration cruisers, one beautiful, one looking like a fat Excelsior. So in the end it would be a matter of their special consoles and the personal taste of the player. (since Cryptic does not seem to be interested in adding alternative ship parts for the Odyssey, both ships would complement one another very well IMO.)
For one who complains about other people "hating" a certain ship, you don't seem to mind hating on others, do you?
It was meant as a joke. Although, thinking about it, a miniature Galaxy flying around you as a non-combat pet might be amusing.
Or, if we want a way I'd love, have it as both. You summon it, and it follows along, just being cute, and then when combat happens, it's little shields flare up and it starts zapping the enemies for light phaser damage with miniature phaser effects. Maybe give it the same strength as a hand phaser or something. If it gets shot, shield effects.
As to the vid, I'm glad you liked it. The guy has more model building skills than he does video editing, but at least he tried with the background music.
I would by it if I get its special console and can use it on my other cruisers:
"Propellers and Ailerons
Universal Console
Adds +50% to turn rate"
That thing was zipping around! Props' and ailerons FTW
For one who complains about other people "hating" a certain ship, you don't seem to mind hating on others, do you?
I am not a game developer, it isn't my job to keep a professional distance in that matter.
And i am not saying the Excelsior or the Odyssey should be the ships with the least firepower which other ppl do.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I am not a game developer, it isn't my job to keep a professional distance in that matter.
And i am not saying the Excelsior or the Odyssey should be the ships with the least firepower which other ppl do.
No, you aren't a dev', but when you are making an appeal on behalf of one ship because of the "hate" its got from dev's and the "hate" its got from players that aren't parallel in thoughts and intentions does little to add credibility to your arguments as anything but biased.
And belittling those ships and making disparaging remarks is a bit hateful and will do you little to garner support for your cause.
No, you aren't a dev', but when you are making an appeal on behalf of one ship because of the "hate" its got from dev's and the "hate" its got from players that aren't parallel in thoughts and intentions does little to add credibility to your arguments as anything but biased.
And belittling those ships and making disparaging remarks is a bit hateful and will do you little to garner support for your cause.
Don't act as if you where to judge about me.
What does my dislike towards the appearance of the excelsior have to do with the GCS being made totally wrong by Cryptics devs?
As i said i am not a dev.
I am not saying those ships should be made weaker as they should.
You should differ between someone just not liking something and someone actively denigrating something.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Everyone knows the Excelsior is the skinny redneck girl and the Galaxy is her chunky bestriend. They may not be the prettiest girls at the ball but they have a good personality.
So you two agree to disagree and move on.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yreodred's opinions on physical asthetics have been made clear at this point. Yes, he doesn't like skinny designs, he likes his gals chunky, and that's his preference. (Oddly, he doesn't seem to care for triple D's on a girl either, in the case of the Galaxy Dreadnought...)
Anyway, his opinions aside, he has good points as to problems with the GCS, and how it seems nerfed compared to much older designs. Outside of it's engineering stations and consoles, there isn't much of note about the ship.
You can add consoles, armor, and other new bits to an old ship, but in the grand scheme of things, every T5 ship should have some defining feature special to that ship. Abundance of Engineering powers, and if you're willing to pay some extra, making the Saucer fall off isn't really special in the grand scheme of things. The Oddy can make most of it's saucer fall off. Kaay. Not special anymore. It also has lots of engineering powers too, depending on the boat you pick.
The Galaxy needs a more defining feature, at least. Special inherent beam array abilities, perhaps, or special weapons only a Galaxy can use. It's smaller than the Oddy by a bit, and on that note should have a better turn rate. The oddy having the worst turn rate in the game I can see. The Galaxy should do a little better at least. My suggestion? Start it at 8 Leave the Oddy at 6.
Be able to customize the weapons on the Saucer. Give it options to command it. It needs a more defining special feature.
The Galaxy X, it's cousin can use an update too. Cloak, Spinal Phaser Lance and equipping DHCs is interesting, but unless you can put in a lot of work and investment into the ship, they're no better than cheap parlor tricks. It hasn't aged well, and needs an update too. Let the saucer fall off, increase the turn rate. Let the two parts of the Phaser Lance come to life to show off it's versatility when you activate Saucer Separation,
Give it more, and serious tricks so it can be a more substantial threat, so that more than only the most clever AND those who love it can drive it successfully.
Given the X was built for war, has three nacelles and can mount cannons, give it a higher turn rate than the Galaxy. Say the stock Galaxy has a turn rate of 8. Make the X start at 10. (Yes, I know, you think it's ugly Yreodred. It needs more customization features than just Venture options. Calm down a little, some of use actually like it. )
Okay, there. Said my piece. Shall we carry on from here?
Weyland-Yutani Joint Space Venture - Always open to new members!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
Yreodred's opinions on physical asthetics have been made clear at this point. Yes, he doesn't like skinny designs, he likes his gals chunky, and that's his preference. (Oddly, he doesn't seem to care for triple D's on a girl either, in the case of the Galaxy Dreadnought...)
It's not necessarily about a ship being skinny, but i like it if they have nice curves and shapes. And the third nacelle and the two little (devil) horns on top of the saucer just ruin the fluid shapes of the GCS design.
Anyway, his opinions aside, he has good points as to problems with the GCS, and how it seems nerfed compared to much older designs. Outside of it's engineering stations and consoles, there isn't much of note about the ship.
You can add consoles, armor, and other new bits to an old ship, but in the grand scheme of things, every T5 ship should have some defining feature special to that ship. Abundance of Engineering powers, and if you're willing to pay some extra, making the Saucer fall off isn't really special in the grand scheme of things. The Oddy can make most of it's saucer fall off. Kaay. Not special anymore. It also has lots of engineering powers too, depending on the boat you pick.
The Galaxy needs a more defining feature, at least. Special inherent beam array abilities, perhaps, or special weapons only a Galaxy can use. It's smaller than the Oddy by a bit, and on that note should have a better turn rate. The oddy having the worst turn rate in the game I can see. The Galaxy should do a little better at least. My suggestion? Start it at 8 Leave the Oddy at 6.
Be able to customize the weapons on the Saucer. Give it options to command it. It needs a more defining special feature.
The Galaxy X, it's cousin can use an update too. Cloak, Spinal Phaser Lance and equipping DHCs is interesting, but unless you can put in a lot of work and investment into the ship, they're no better than cheap parlor tricks. It hasn't aged well, and needs an update too. Let the saucer fall off, increase the turn rate. Let the two parts of the Phaser Lance come to life to show off it's versatility when you activate Saucer Separation,
Give it more, and serious tricks so it can be a more substantial threat, so that more than only the most clever AND those who love it can drive it successfully.
Given the X was built for war, has three nacelles and can mount cannons, give it a higher turn rate than the Galaxy. Say the stock Galaxy has a turn rate of 8. Make the X start at 10. (Yes, I know, you think it's ugly Yreodred. It needs more customization features than just Venture options.
I fully agree with everything you said.
Don't get me wrong i don't hate the G -X and i am ok if it gets reworked too, if it would just get some more choices on it's appearance.
They should just give us the option to remove the third nacelle and the two antenna things (cannons, i think) on top of the saucer and we would have a nice "yesterdays Enterprise" GCS - war configuration.
Calm down a little, some of use actually like it. )
Okay, there. Said my piece. Shall we carry on from here?
I would be pleased in doing so.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
What does my dislike towards the appearance of the excelsior have to do with the GCS being made totally wrong by Cryptics devs?
As i said i am not a dev.
I am not saying those ships should be made weaker as they should.
You should differ between someone just not liking something and someone actively denigrating something.
All I am saying is that just as your judgement of people who do not agree with you about improving the Exploration Cruiser as "hate". I am not offended about your opinion, but the way it was presented was in poor form. The same thing about the way you have made statements about other ships could be considered, so "ugly" (and some of the other things you have said) are strong words. It seems to me like its a glass wall/stones deal. I would argue that those types of statements aren't helping your credibility or cause.
Its okay if you are a chubby chaser (just kidding), but insulting the looks of the other guys "girlfriends" wont help you much in your circle of friends.
...
Its okay if you are a chubby chaser (just kidding), but insulting the looks of the other guys "girlfriends" wont help you much in your circle of friends.
Aehm...
These are just spaceships. Good looking and bad looking ones, but no girlfriends...
Can we please get on topic again..
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
ok, did you see the second friday screenshot? now we known what this battlecruiser is.
look like a sovereign on steroid, but with cloack!
i knew we were not having a galaxy, so no regret here, but why an other version of the regent?
I don't get that either.
The regent is already the most offensive Starfleet ship (escorts don't count for me ).
Cryptic seems to keep its course on keeping the GCS as the punching bag, while the Excelsior/Sovereign/Regent design gets all the offensive power...
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I have noticed a huge lack of offensive ability in both the galaxy and galaxy x. The disappointment in the both is almost tangeable, especially in the Galaxy X's spinal lance. I seem to recall watching it decloak and hull a Klingon cruiser with 1 shot. I know we can't have something that powerful in the game, but come on. It's about as useful as firing a tricobalt device against a shielded opponent. Doesn't do a thing to shields. And when are they gonna give it the ability to saucer seperate and use the wide beam lance like the description suggests? As far as Tanking ability with the Galaxy, I get better results out of my Sovereign class cruiser, as well as far better offensive power.
Since they are releasing the "Avenger" which will be a heavy combat ship, they surely won't make the GCS a heavy combat ship alike.
And we certainly won't see another Starfleet ship in the next forseeable time (other factions, lockbox ships etc.).
Cryptic seems to be determined NOT to make a GCS as we would want it (versatile or tactical heavy as some want it).
Should we continue on this matter at all?
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
So, we won't get a new Galaxy or a reworked Galaxy. Let's hope that they at least come around with some nice ideas for "Cruiser gameplay" and BOFF abilities. Lol.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I feel that we should continue asking for a place for the cruisers in this game. And yes, I'm talking about the standard Starfleet cruisers. Not these ridiculous atrocities they keep throwing at us designed on the basis of no creativity, but rather the easy fix that is slowly creeping into becoming Cryptic's trademark fix for just about anything - "when in doubt, slap a hangar/cloak/DHC and call it a day".
I've said this many times before and even with the risk of boring you to death, I'm gonna' say it again :cool: - I'm fine with the Galaxy setup even as it is in STO if they bring back the role of tanks in this game. Cruisers need to have a place again, whatever that place might be.
Mine preforms admirable for the way she's designed in STO, but I'll admit that it was a long, grindy and expensive road to take her there. Compared to... let's say a Vesta that I purchase and have that usefullness right off the bat. I'm able to pull my weight with mine and I use pure canon setup - phasers,quantums and no Borg TRIBBLE. The issue is that when teams and content don't need a proper tank, I'm basically slowing down the team compared to taking the Excelsior, Vesta or right about any escort in the same battle.
Having Cpt.Geko talking about implementing career specific objectives for S8 and following seasons is a good starting point. At this point, I really believe that the best we can hope on making the Galaxy class more usefull is this, beause it's becoming obvious that they are not planing on changing the current setup of the ship.
So basically we should ask and push for making the role of cruisers usefull again. I know that many here hate the 'trinity' model, not a fan of it myself either, but if this game struggles around it and especially since a whole class of ships struggle around a role intended in a trinity system, the best we can hope on boosting the Galaxy's usefulness is bringing back the role she's intended for in STO. This is good because it would benefit all the classic Starfleet beam cruisers, not just the Galaxy.
This might not be much fun to many people as having her DPS output or manuverability improved, but I think it's the best the class can hope to get. And I'm perfectly fine with it personally, I like long combat sequences and I like my ships big and slow. As long as my ship has a role in game and it's not absolutely out of place.
Until Cryptic revamp the Galaxy Class, they don't get no more purchases out of me. So whilst this Avenger Class is a setback (it's going to be Tactical heavy) I will go back to waiting. Just a thought too, but aside from the Fleet Support Cruiser (Ambassador) I don't believe there is another Cruiser with a Lt.Cmd Science. All Cruisers seem to be about Tactical which is a shame, as that sure ain't what I'm looking for right now.
Cryptic seems to be determined NOT to make a GCS as we would want it (versatile or tactical heavy as some want it).
Should we continue on this matter at all?
TBH, I think pushing for the iconics to be made relevant again (yes, the fleet defiant is probably less gimped than the fleet galaxy and fleet intrepid, but not getting that 10% extra shield like EVERY OTHER SHIP really hurts it) is a waste of time. I truly believe they decided to keep the fleet versions weak, going so far as to bizarrely deny the fleet defiant the extra 10% shield just to make players get new ships. They know full well that if the iconics were decent (not amazing or great, merely decent will do) they would get a lot less sales.
They know full well that if the iconics were decent (not amazing or great, merely decent will do) they would get a lot less sales.
I don't think so. Their are a lot of people who like using ships with better stats and abilities so as long as other ships are clearly better at killing things they will sell. All some people want from actual Star Trek ships like the Galaxy is for it not to be totally obsolete as a end game tier 5 ship.
i personally will not stop fighting, they won't get away with me that easily.
i bielieve that this thread with others concerning the galaxy and galaxy x have done their jobs to point out the subjectives and objectives problem of cruisers in general and specifically the galaxy class.
the devs have responded in the "interview a dev", that good, but don't make mistake, i will not be satisfy with a subpart galaxy until the end of time.
one day or an other they will have to give these ship a clear and well define role as long as stats worthy of a cstore T5 ship.
Just boycott their new ships and lock boxes. Don't reward them for ignoring those iconic ships. Either they get it or they don't get my money.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I feel that we should continue asking for a place for the cruisers in this game. And yes, I'm talking about the standard Starfleet cruisers. Not these ridiculous atrocities they keep throwing at us designed on the basis of no creativity, but rather the easy fix that is slowly creeping into becoming Cryptic's trademark fix for just about anything - "when in doubt, slap a hangar/cloak/DHC and call it a day".
I've said this many times before and even with the risk of boring you to death, I'm gonna' say it again :cool: - I'm fine with the Galaxy setup even as it is in STO if they bring back the role of tanks in this game. Cruisers need to have a place again, whatever that place might be.
I wholeheartedly agree. Cloaking device or other silly items or not, I think even this "Avenger" will find itself lacking against escorts.
Mine preforms admirable for the way she's designed in STO, but I'll admit that it was a long, grindy and expensive road to take her there. Compared to... let's say a Vesta that I purchase and have that usefullness right off the bat. I'm able to pull my weight with mine and I use pure canon setup - phasers,quantums and no Borg TRIBBLE. The issue is that when teams and content don't need a proper tank, I'm basically slowing down the team compared to taking the Excelsior, Vesta or right about any escort in the same battle.
Even driving my Excel', that I drive like I stole, I am still slowing down the escorts in the fight.
Having Cpt.Geko talking about implementing career specific objectives for S8 and following seasons is a good starting point. At this point, I really believe that the best we can hope on making the Galaxy class more usefull is this, beause it's becoming obvious that they are not planing on changing the current setup of the ship.
So basically we should ask and push for making the role of cruisers usefull again. I know that many here hate the 'trinity' model, not a fan of it myself either, but if this game struggles around it and especially since a whole class of ships struggle around a role intended in a trinity system, the best we can hope on boosting the Galaxy's usefulness is bringing back the role she's intended for in STO. This is good because it would benefit all the classic Starfleet beam cruisers, not just the Galaxy.
This might not be much fun to many people as having her DPS output or manuverability improved, but I think it's the best the class can hope to get. And I'm perfectly fine with it personally, I like long combat sequences and I like my ships big and slow. As long as my ship has a role in game and it's not absolutely out of place.
If Cryptic thinks that cruisers role is tank, then they should be able to tank. Even the "tankier" cruisers don't have the ability enough to slug it out with an escort long enough to have a reasonable chance of having its dps output surpass an escorts ability to soak it before it out dps's the cruisers ability to soak incoming fire.
Until Cryptic revamp the Galaxy Class, they don't get no more purchases out of me. So whilst this Avenger Class is a setback (it's going to be Tactical heavy) I will go back to waiting. Just a thought too, but aside from the Fleet Support Cruiser (Ambassador) I don't believe there is another Cruiser with a Lt.Cmd Science. All Cruisers seem to be about Tactical which is a shame, as that sure ain't what I'm looking for right now.
Go with the Fleet Nebula, its the closest thing that a science ship can be to a cruiser. Its sort of a light cruiser.
Having Cpt.Geko talking about implementing career specific objectives for S8 and following seasons is a good starting point. At this point, I really believe that the best we can hope on making the Galaxy class more usefull is this, beause it's becoming obvious that they are not planing on changing the current setup of the ship.
So basically we should ask and push for making the role of cruisers usefull again. I know that many here hate the 'trinity' model, not a fan of it myself either, but if this game struggles around it and especially since a whole class of ships struggle around a role intended in a trinity system, the best we can hope on boosting the Galaxy's usefulness is bringing back the role she's intended for in STO. This is good because it would benefit all the classic Starfleet beam cruisers, not just the Galaxy.
Personally i would absolutely HATE to see cruisers become flying bricks with no teeth again.
They should rather make Cruisers into much more versatile ships (as in "real" trek).
No Star Trek ship has a proper place in the trinity system, not even the Defiant.
Cryptic should do the same thing as the did with the Romulans.
They essentially made the Warbird the Romulans main ship type, Escorts (Talvath) and Science (R'Mor) ships being a exception.
They could and should do the same thing with Starfleet.
All ships should be "Starships" engineering heavy Cruiser like ships. Essentially all Starfleet ships would be like that, some more focussed on tactical or science. The Defiant being a escort/destroyer and the Nova the science exception.
As the romulan ships, Starfleet ships should get some unique abilities on their own. Like a tow-tractor beam, target subsystem X, and something like a torpedo spread ability.
A system like that would make much more sense IMO.
I would rather stop playing STO, than to see my favourite ships become teethless bricks again.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
As the romulan ships, Starfleet ships should get some unique abilities on their own. Like a tow-tractor beam...
I think there's some potential for a Tractor Beam Tow ability. Humerous, and interesting.
Just imagine, someone is annoying you while you're in battle in your Galaxy, you lock on to im with that and just drag him around for fifteen seconds. His weapon strength is reduced for the duration of the Tractor ability.
Also, there's the option of turning the tractored ship into a form of melee weapon, waving it around and smacking any nearby ships with it.
Or, one other function, Grab it with the tractor beam, and if you don't feel like dragging the guy or waving him around, use the tractor beam to throw him out of range. Extra damage if you throw him into something or another ship.
Weyland-Yutani Joint Space Venture - Always open to new members!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
its ignorant to think the trinity model still works.
i'v explained a dozen times why it doesnt work
even the players know it doesnt work, thats why 4 tac console a2b cruisers are the only ones that do jack all because its forcing every scrap of OFFENSIVE power out of the cruisers. it just really frustrating at times pointing out the obvious and having people turn around and say "but but dhuurrr"
all anyone gets with the incompetent trinity in sto is, with a group of equally skilled players, maybe one can maybe force a stalemate through heals, where the other cant lose for any reason but their own impatience.
I agree.
That's why they should get rid of the idea of stone paper scissor completely and try to make every ship equal strong in both offense and defense (just by using different means).
Having all ships more or less equal isn't really canon, but still better than to have Cruisers just serving as target practices for escorts in PvP and cruisers being the most boring ships in PvE.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Personally i would absolutely HATE to see cruisers become flying bricks with no teeth again.
They should rather make Cruisers into much more versatile ships (as in "real" trek).
No Star Trek ship has a proper place in the trinity system, not even the Defiant.
With all due respect, are we even talking about the same game here?
The cruisers already are toothless bricks, with the exception of maybe two that are not toothless in a single cookie cutter setup that basically aims to move them away from their obsolete role in STO into the escort role.
Cryptic should do the same thing as the did with the Romulans.
They essentially made the Warbird the Romulans main ship type, Escorts (Talvath) and Science (R'Mor) ships being a exception.
Impossible. They only did that with the Romulans because they made their complete lineup out of scratch at the same time. Starfleet and KDF ship classes are set in stone. This is Cryptic that we're talking about, I hope you realize how reluctant they are to change already made items. They wouldn't even poke it with a stick from far.
What you're saying is that they should throw out their entire starship mantra and create a entirely new game mechanic out of scratch. I may even agree that this could and would be better, but now the milion dollar question - do you really believe Cryptic would do this??
its ignorant to think the trinity model still works.
It's ignorant to give Feds. cloaking ships.
It's ignorant to delay the first KDF ship in 20 months only to release a new Fed one.
It's ignorant to give one faction superior Boff space passives.
It's ignorant to turn Starfleet into full badass military.
It's ignorant for the sector space in a Star Trek game to look smaller than my living room.
It's ignorant to create power creep and that give all the fruits of said power creep to a single faction.
It's ignorant to make different classes of starships suposedly fit for different roles and them make the whole game content DPS centered.
It's ignorant to kill factions' uniqueness and mold everythiing.
I could go on and on, but I supose you catch my drift by now. Cryptic does a lot of ignorant things in STO. I'll elaborate a bit more below:
i'v explained a dozen times why it doesnt work
even the players know it doesnt work, thats why 4 tac console a2b cruisers are the only ones that do jack all because its forcing every scrap of OFFENSIVE power out of the cruisers. it just really frustrating at times pointing out the obvious and having people turn around and say "but but dhuurrr"
I have to admit, when I said that I know many people are against the so called 'trinity' model and when I pointed out that it's not my favourite cup of tea either, I had you in mind. lol Don't get me wrong, not because of anything bad, but because I know that you're one of the strongest voices against the trinity model on this forum.
Now that said, I agree - the trinity doesn't work currently. To be honest, I don't know wheather it could ever work as Cryptic intended it to be, but I'm giving it the benefit of a doubt that it could in a perfect world.
Why am I saying this? Because I have seen balance become a torublesome issue for many game developers, but damn, here it's all over the place.
And again, because this is Cryptic we're talking about. And Cryptic knows the trinity doesn't work in their game, regardless having Cpt.Geko trying to convince us that it's all good. But honestly, Cryptic couldn't balance it out even if it hits them on their head.
Just look at their recent moves - they realize their trinity system is out of place and that escorts are currently king and how do they go about this? They turn the other classes into escorts. First there was the Vesta, a DHC capable science ship with strong emphasis on tactical. Then there was the Ha'nom - a science ship that can use DHC and battlecloak. Now it's the Avenger, a cloaking cruiser with the ability to mount DHC and probably a better turn rate than any of the current cruisers.
What I'm saying is - we can continue to push Cryptic to try their best to fix the broken trinity they have intended for STO, or leave them to work around it and end up with having only escort type ships,only with different hulls. So we end up with escort looking escort, cruiser looking escort or sciency looking escort. They'll all have huge turn rates, work only with DHCs and ofcourse had the added value of a hangar, because if it doesn't it's not cool. And because it seems to be the widest availible range of their current creativity. And the Galaxy will remain the same.
Honestly, having all ships zooming around in crazy speed, pew-pewing with DHC and heavy cheese spam is not apealing to me in the slightest.
I know this is not what you had in mind and probably have much better ideas, but it's Cryptic we're talking about. So again, the milion dollar question for you as well - do you seriously believe they would go on and change their whole game mantra at this point?
Comments
100% agree.
I would prefer a C-Store version over a Fleet version.
That's how i see it:
Already implemented ships shouldn't be changed much. Cryptic should just turn the GCS Ensign and Lt.Cmdr. Stations into universal ones.
No matter if thats the same layout as the Odyssey. They are both Exploration cruisers, one beautiful, one looking like a fat Excelsior. So in the end it would be a matter of their special consoles and the personal taste of the player.
(since Cryptic does not seem to be interested in adding alternative ship parts for the Odyssey, both ships would complement one another very well IMO.)
Additionally Cryptic could release a "mirror" variant (maybe as a Lockbox ship, to limit its quantity), which is a fully tactical focussed GCS, able to use both G -X and G -R ship parts. Same BOFF and Console Layout as the Jem?Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier.
The ability to equip fightesr gets deleted without replacement.
(to take the wind out of the GCS haters sails)
For one who complains about other people "hating" a certain ship, you don't seem to mind hating on others, do you?
I would by it if I get its special console and can use it on my other cruisers:
"Propellers and Ailerons
Universal Console
Adds +50% to turn rate"
That thing was zipping around! Props' and ailerons FTW
I am not a game developer, it isn't my job to keep a professional distance in that matter.
And i am not saying the Excelsior or the Odyssey should be the ships with the least firepower which other ppl do.
No, you aren't a dev', but when you are making an appeal on behalf of one ship because of the "hate" its got from dev's and the "hate" its got from players that aren't parallel in thoughts and intentions does little to add credibility to your arguments as anything but biased.
And belittling those ships and making disparaging remarks is a bit hateful and will do you little to garner support for your cause.
What does my dislike towards the appearance of the excelsior have to do with the GCS being made totally wrong by Cryptics devs?
As i said i am not a dev.
I am not saying those ships should be made weaker as they should.
You should differ between someone just not liking something and someone actively denigrating something.
Everyone knows the Excelsior is the skinny redneck girl and the Galaxy is her chunky bestriend. They may not be the prettiest girls at the ball but they have a good personality.
So you two agree to disagree and move on.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Anyway, his opinions aside, he has good points as to problems with the GCS, and how it seems nerfed compared to much older designs. Outside of it's engineering stations and consoles, there isn't much of note about the ship.
You can add consoles, armor, and other new bits to an old ship, but in the grand scheme of things, every T5 ship should have some defining feature special to that ship. Abundance of Engineering powers, and if you're willing to pay some extra, making the Saucer fall off isn't really special in the grand scheme of things. The Oddy can make most of it's saucer fall off. Kaay. Not special anymore. It also has lots of engineering powers too, depending on the boat you pick.
The Galaxy needs a more defining feature, at least. Special inherent beam array abilities, perhaps, or special weapons only a Galaxy can use. It's smaller than the Oddy by a bit, and on that note should have a better turn rate. The oddy having the worst turn rate in the game I can see. The Galaxy should do a little better at least. My suggestion? Start it at 8 Leave the Oddy at 6.
Be able to customize the weapons on the Saucer. Give it options to command it. It needs a more defining special feature.
The Galaxy X, it's cousin can use an update too. Cloak, Spinal Phaser Lance and equipping DHCs is interesting, but unless you can put in a lot of work and investment into the ship, they're no better than cheap parlor tricks. It hasn't aged well, and needs an update too. Let the saucer fall off, increase the turn rate. Let the two parts of the Phaser Lance come to life to show off it's versatility when you activate Saucer Separation,
Give it more, and serious tricks so it can be a more substantial threat, so that more than only the most clever AND those who love it can drive it successfully.
Given the X was built for war, has three nacelles and can mount cannons, give it a higher turn rate than the Galaxy. Say the stock Galaxy has a turn rate of 8. Make the X start at 10. (Yes, I know, you think it's ugly Yreodred. It needs more customization features than just Venture options. Calm down a little, some of use actually like it.
Okay, there. Said my piece. Shall we carry on from here?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
I fully agree with everything you said.
Don't get me wrong i don't hate the G -X and i am ok if it gets reworked too, if it would just get some more choices on it's appearance.
They should just give us the option to remove the third nacelle and the two antenna things (cannons, i think) on top of the saucer and we would have a nice "yesterdays Enterprise" GCS - war configuration.
I would be pleased in doing so.
All I am saying is that just as your judgement of people who do not agree with you about improving the Exploration Cruiser as "hate". I am not offended about your opinion, but the way it was presented was in poor form. The same thing about the way you have made statements about other ships could be considered, so "ugly" (and some of the other things you have said) are strong words. It seems to me like its a glass wall/stones deal. I would argue that those types of statements aren't helping your credibility or cause.
Its okay if you are a chubby chaser (just kidding), but insulting the looks of the other guys "girlfriends" wont help you much in your circle of friends.
look like a sovereign on steroid, but with cloack!
i knew we were not having a galaxy, so no regret here, but why an other version of the regent?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
But there are some that seem to really hate the GCS and Cryptic of course.
Aehm...
These are just spaceships. Good looking and bad looking ones, but no girlfriends...
Can we please get on topic again..
The regent is already the most offensive Starfleet ship (escorts don't count for me
Cryptic seems to keep its course on keeping the GCS as the punching bag, while the Excelsior/Sovereign/Regent design gets all the offensive power...
Since they are releasing the "Avenger" which will be a heavy combat ship, they surely won't make the GCS a heavy combat ship alike.
And we certainly won't see another Starfleet ship in the next forseeable time (other factions, lockbox ships etc.).
Cryptic seems to be determined NOT to make a GCS as we would want it (versatile or tactical heavy as some want it).
Should we continue on this matter at all?
So, we won't get a new Galaxy or a reworked Galaxy. Let's hope that they at least come around with some nice ideas for "Cruiser gameplay" and BOFF abilities. Lol.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I feel that we should continue asking for a place for the cruisers in this game. And yes, I'm talking about the standard Starfleet cruisers. Not these ridiculous atrocities they keep throwing at us designed on the basis of no creativity, but rather the easy fix that is slowly creeping into becoming Cryptic's trademark fix for just about anything - "when in doubt, slap a hangar/cloak/DHC and call it a day".
I've said this many times before and even with the risk of boring you to death, I'm gonna' say it again :cool: - I'm fine with the Galaxy setup even as it is in STO if they bring back the role of tanks in this game. Cruisers need to have a place again, whatever that place might be.
Mine preforms admirable for the way she's designed in STO, but I'll admit that it was a long, grindy and expensive road to take her there. Compared to... let's say a Vesta that I purchase and have that usefullness right off the bat. I'm able to pull my weight with mine and I use pure canon setup - phasers,quantums and no Borg TRIBBLE. The issue is that when teams and content don't need a proper tank, I'm basically slowing down the team compared to taking the Excelsior, Vesta or right about any escort in the same battle.
Having Cpt.Geko talking about implementing career specific objectives for S8 and following seasons is a good starting point. At this point, I really believe that the best we can hope on making the Galaxy class more usefull is this, beause it's becoming obvious that they are not planing on changing the current setup of the ship.
So basically we should ask and push for making the role of cruisers usefull again. I know that many here hate the 'trinity' model, not a fan of it myself either, but if this game struggles around it and especially since a whole class of ships struggle around a role intended in a trinity system, the best we can hope on boosting the Galaxy's usefulness is bringing back the role she's intended for in STO. This is good because it would benefit all the classic Starfleet beam cruisers, not just the Galaxy.
This might not be much fun to many people as having her DPS output or manuverability improved, but I think it's the best the class can hope to get. And I'm perfectly fine with it personally, I like long combat sequences and I like my ships big and slow. As long as my ship has a role in game and it's not absolutely out of place.
TBH, I think pushing for the iconics to be made relevant again (yes, the fleet defiant is probably less gimped than the fleet galaxy and fleet intrepid, but not getting that 10% extra shield like EVERY OTHER SHIP really hurts it) is a waste of time. I truly believe they decided to keep the fleet versions weak, going so far as to bizarrely deny the fleet defiant the extra 10% shield just to make players get new ships. They know full well that if the iconics were decent (not amazing or great, merely decent will do) they would get a lot less sales.
I don't think so. Their are a lot of people who like using ships with better stats and abilities so as long as other ships are clearly better at killing things they will sell. All some people want from actual Star Trek ships like the Galaxy is for it not to be totally obsolete as a end game tier 5 ship.
i bielieve that this thread with others concerning the galaxy and galaxy x have done their jobs to point out the subjectives and objectives problem of cruisers in general and specifically the galaxy class.
the devs have responded in the "interview a dev", that good, but don't make mistake, i will not be satisfy with a subpart galaxy until the end of time.
one day or an other they will have to give these ship a clear and well define role as long as stats worthy of a cstore T5 ship.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
- Judge Aaron Satie
I wholeheartedly agree. Cloaking device or other silly items or not, I think even this "Avenger" will find itself lacking against escorts.
Even driving my Excel', that I drive like I stole, I am still slowing down the escorts in the fight.
If Cryptic thinks that cruisers role is tank, then they should be able to tank. Even the "tankier" cruisers don't have the ability enough to slug it out with an escort long enough to have a reasonable chance of having its dps output surpass an escorts ability to soak it before it out dps's the cruisers ability to soak incoming fire.
Go with the Fleet Nebula, its the closest thing that a science ship can be to a cruiser. Its sort of a light cruiser.
It just needs more abilities though, like the Picard Maneuver, and some other cool stuff!
I hope STO get's better ...
They should rather make Cruisers into much more versatile ships (as in "real" trek).
No Star Trek ship has a proper place in the trinity system, not even the Defiant.
Cryptic should do the same thing as the did with the Romulans.
They essentially made the Warbird the Romulans main ship type, Escorts (Talvath) and Science (R'Mor) ships being a exception.
They could and should do the same thing with Starfleet.
All ships should be "Starships" engineering heavy Cruiser like ships. Essentially all Starfleet ships would be like that, some more focussed on tactical or science. The Defiant being a escort/destroyer and the Nova the science exception.
As the romulan ships, Starfleet ships should get some unique abilities on their own. Like a tow-tractor beam, target subsystem X, and something like a torpedo spread ability.
A system like that would make much more sense IMO.
I would rather stop playing STO, than to see my favourite ships become teethless bricks again.
I think there's some potential for a Tractor Beam Tow ability. Humerous, and interesting.
Just imagine, someone is annoying you while you're in battle in your Galaxy, you lock on to im with that and just drag him around for fifteen seconds. His weapon strength is reduced for the duration of the Tractor ability.
Also, there's the option of turning the tractored ship into a form of melee weapon, waving it around and smacking any nearby ships with it.
Or, one other function, Grab it with the tractor beam, and if you don't feel like dragging the guy or waving him around, use the tractor beam to throw him out of range. Extra damage if you throw him into something or another ship.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
That's why they should get rid of the idea of stone paper scissor completely and try to make every ship equal strong in both offense and defense (just by using different means).
Having all ships more or less equal isn't really canon, but still better than to have Cruisers just serving as target practices for escorts in PvP and cruisers being the most boring ships in PvE.
@sevmrage
With all due respect, are we even talking about the same game here?
The cruisers already are toothless bricks, with the exception of maybe two that are not toothless in a single cookie cutter setup that basically aims to move them away from their obsolete role in STO into the escort role.
Impossible. They only did that with the Romulans because they made their complete lineup out of scratch at the same time. Starfleet and KDF ship classes are set in stone. This is Cryptic that we're talking about, I hope you realize how reluctant they are to change already made items. They wouldn't even poke it with a stick from far.
What you're saying is that they should throw out their entire starship mantra and create a entirely new game mechanic out of scratch. I may even agree that this could and would be better, but now the milion dollar question - do you really believe Cryptic would do this??
It's ignorant to give Feds. cloaking ships.
It's ignorant to delay the first KDF ship in 20 months only to release a new Fed one.
It's ignorant to give one faction superior Boff space passives.
It's ignorant to turn Starfleet into full badass military.
It's ignorant for the sector space in a Star Trek game to look smaller than my living room.
It's ignorant to create power creep and that give all the fruits of said power creep to a single faction.
It's ignorant to make different classes of starships suposedly fit for different roles and them make the whole game content DPS centered.
It's ignorant to kill factions' uniqueness and mold everythiing.
I could go on and on, but I supose you catch my drift by now. Cryptic does a lot of ignorant things in STO. I'll elaborate a bit more below:
I have to admit, when I said that I know many people are against the so called 'trinity' model and when I pointed out that it's not my favourite cup of tea either, I had you in mind. lol
Now that said, I agree - the trinity doesn't work currently. To be honest, I don't know wheather it could ever work as Cryptic intended it to be, but I'm giving it the benefit of a doubt that it could in a perfect world.
Why am I saying this? Because I have seen balance become a torublesome issue for many game developers, but damn, here it's all over the place.
And again, because this is Cryptic we're talking about. And Cryptic knows the trinity doesn't work in their game, regardless having Cpt.Geko trying to convince us that it's all good. But honestly, Cryptic couldn't balance it out even if it hits them on their head.
Just look at their recent moves - they realize their trinity system is out of place and that escorts are currently king and how do they go about this? They turn the other classes into escorts. First there was the Vesta, a DHC capable science ship with strong emphasis on tactical. Then there was the Ha'nom - a science ship that can use DHC and battlecloak. Now it's the Avenger, a cloaking cruiser with the ability to mount DHC and probably a better turn rate than any of the current cruisers.
What I'm saying is - we can continue to push Cryptic to try their best to fix the broken trinity they have intended for STO, or leave them to work around it and end up with having only escort type ships,only with different hulls. So we end up with escort looking escort, cruiser looking escort or sciency looking escort. They'll all have huge turn rates, work only with DHCs and ofcourse had the added value of a hangar, because if it doesn't it's not cool. And because it seems to be the widest availible range of their current creativity. And the Galaxy will remain the same.
Honestly, having all ships zooming around in crazy speed, pew-pewing with DHC and heavy cheese spam is not apealing to me in the slightest.
I know this is not what you had in mind and probably have much better ideas, but it's Cryptic we're talking about. So again, the milion dollar question for you as well - do you seriously believe they would go on and change their whole game mantra at this point?