I Can't help but think that the Romulans have been put in a position in game that means they can't really support a faction, to much going on with them. In a Romulan faction the Remans would be included but would have to be equal and currently the to races don't get along mostly. Also Cardassia is broken down in similars way to the Romulans but are abit more stable as they still have a home and government. But both Cardassia and the Romulans are now puppets to the Federation and slightly to KDF (even though klingons hate both), Neither are the big powers they once where.
But the Dominion faction idea might hold some merit as mentioned before they are still powerful got everything in place and are very stable, they can be brang into the game with sectors laying the other side of the wormhole and as another faction with the potential of waging a full on war with the FED and KDF.
However i'd Rather see the Romulans and Cardassians stableised and re-militarised in game and hopefully on TV soon xD
But nothing official from CBS so far. And I think they have their workload cut out for the blu ray remastering. Which is great so far, bought both seasons of TNG so far. I'd like to see DS9 on Blu Ray. So People please buy this stuff so CBS sees that people spend money on it and the continue to remaster all older series.
Oh and for those of you ranting "Eww that costs way too much money". Watch this.
Hmm... well, I am still learning my field (aerospace) so, we'll go with you're right... for now, muahahahaha.
I was going to liken the analogy to a high velocity sniper bullet and a large block of wood, but honestly, have never seen that, lol.
Wood has grain and interlocks on the cell level
its actually harder to break wood than brick with bullets (weird but true)
A Borg cube however is a largely open interior frame work with artificial bonds
its closer to the Rubics cube
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stoleviathan99
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,719# 122
Today, 10:06 AM
If your strategy is so brilliant, sollvax (and I thought of the same thing when I was a kid, as I'm sure many people did) then it makes every captain who had automated shuttles with warp drives at their disposal an idiot. It makes Sisko, Picard, Janeway, and Kirk idiots.
As A kid (long long ago) It never occured to me
as an adult it became obvious
of course it only works against a really stupid enemy (like the borg)
Klingons cloak, romulans cloak and federation ships fight while moving
it also relys on the target being massive (a shuttle at warp might punch a hole in a warbird and vapourise a cube because the warbird is not as heavy)
It would be bad drama to allow this to work. So anyone writing for Trek would have to come up with excuses why this is a bad idea (ie. "The resulting explosion would create a subspace rift that would backtrack along the shuttle's impulse trail, destroying any ship that launched it!", "Objects moving at warp register as energy to shields and standard shields already deflect phaser attacks that deal damage in excess of 200^20th power joules! Any ship attempting this would be dissipated instantly, without leaving a scratch!"") , to keep the drama intact.
Kirk era answer "It would violate treaty captain"
TNG era answer "everyone aboard the enterprise would be killed sir"
Voyager era answer "the paint would get scratched captain"
Drama is more important than physics. And regardless of what has been established, the physics will always contort to the drama.
nah
theres no drama at all with the borg
a bunch of really stupid zombies attack seem invincible then lose
squidheadjax
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 55# 123
Today, 11:03 AM
Quote:
And besides, something moving at warp speed is already telling Newtonian physics to go stuff itself, and either violating or using extreme edge-cases of Einsteinian physics.
Actually no
newton was passed in the 1960's im afraid
most of his equations do not work
and of course the man was more than half an alchemist
Under Einstein, the speed of light is only approachable asymptotically, not reachable, for anything that actually has rest mass.
thus warp
So either an object going superluminal converts itself to tachyons, which have completely different and completely conjectural properties, or it cheats and twists the reference frames themselves so that it's moving at comfortably subluminal speeds in its own frame. Warp drive operates on the latter principle.
actually a transluminal object is possible (just massively expensive in energy terms)
Given that objects moving at different warp speeds are shown to be capable of interacting in times measured longer than nanoseconds, warp fields must tend to be somewhat contagious, merging and carrying along stuff nearby. So a warp-speed impact would probably just be an impact at relativistic velocities. Now, that can still be frakking fast compared to speeds seen onscreen, but something moving fast enough to vaporize a planet on impact is probably just going to do a through-and-through on something like a Borg Cube instead of actually dissipating the energy. Going fast enough, quantum effects might make the matter of both objects miss entirely.
the borg cubes own structure and "fields" will cause it to be destroyed
actually turning off shields and going into reverse are the best defences
Debating about physics in science fiction is about as dumb as debating why certain ships on the shows can take/dish out either great amounts or minscule amounts of damage: it's all depends on what the writer feels will advance the story and keep it interesting (I fully expect any ship with a main character to take a ridiculous amount of damage and one shot anything in its path).
Back on topic:
IMHO a third faction, while being nice, may be a bit superfluous the way the game is set up now. Maybe if there was a PvP system where factions battled for control over sectors (in space and on planets, something along the lines of Planetside 2 or the old Air Warrior series) then a third faction may make sense. Flying around in a Mogai named "V@ldore" maybe nice, but without a fleshed out process as to what the endgame will be for the faction will be and how you will get there, there really isn't much of a point.
And quite frankly, this game is pretty much "warp into sector, kill ships, beam to planet, kill endless hordes, leave planet, kill more ships, report to Starfleet." To only real difference with "the other faction" (since OP asked us not to name it) is that you report to High Command.
Do we really need another faction to do what we've been doing for the past 3 years?
...they are "working" too much on this Star Trek 90210, lens flare, movie stuff.
It's a popular movie (critically and financially) that reinvegerated a dead franchise and reintroduced to a younger generation, deal with it.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Do we really need another faction to do what we've been doing for the past 3 years?
It's a popular movie (critically and financially) that reinvegerated a dead franchise and reintroduced to a younger generation, deal with it.
1'st: Well.. Yes.
2'nd: I never said it was not. I just stated I don't like it. It is a good Popcorn Action Movie, like Transformers or Die Hard or Rambo, you name it. But for me it is no "real" Star Trek. And I think I am entitled to my own opinion. Am I not?
You weren't agreeing with me when I quoted your post. You have in fact edited your post since.
Yes. I added to my response. I still find it a valid one.
There is no reason to start a third faction in STO when the KDF is incomplete.
I would add that since the story of STo is also erratic they may want to flesh out some lose-ends and bring some aspects back inline before attempting to write a new faction into the game and its material.
Perhaps then, you should find someone to teach you, cause self education isn't serving you too well.
My level of education is fine, thanks.
You though may wish to find a therapist and discuss your passive-agressive tendency to both provoke and patronize those whom do not choose to abide by your wishing to impose a silence on speaking out that the KDF needs to be completed before a new third faction is integrated into the game.
You might want to find out the meaning of both words before you use them. I had a reason for calling you an idiot. What's your reason for those insults? Revenge? Hah!
In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Wanker is a pejorative term of English origin common in Britain and other parts of the English-speaking world, including Ireland, Australia and New Zealand. It initially referred to an "onanist", literally meaning "one who wanks ( edited for content )" but has since become a general insult. It is synonymous with the word tosser.[1]
I found in my opinion you apply in the Troll definition becuase of the your statement "For the purpose of this topic, I don't care, nor do I wish to hear about the status of either the Federation or Klingon factions. I would hope that is understood." becuase I did find it inflammatory and it does disrupt the normal on-topic discussion by limiting my and others replies from the very begining.
I find you a wanker, in a general reference, because your where given ample benefit of the doubt and explained your desires very well in the opening post and posts in the five pages that followed. When I harmlessly agreed with Custymacs reply in post # five with my own on page 5/ post #44 and followed it with my snarky "Oh... and KDF faction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" reply to your wish for limited discussion on the topic.
The Edit and further belief in your act possibly trolling with this thread is becuase you where snarky to Crustymac for his reply becuase it was against your wishes and then you where snarky against Centersolace becuase his supported Crusty's post while poking fun at that same desire you stated to control how another person can reply in a open forum even when its one on an idea you have to share. Wanker may figure in here too.
You did not hesitate to attack me or them in a fashion for stating our opinions. None of which even insulted you directly or indirectly, they merely breached a subject you didn't want to hear.
The caustic replies from me came after your need to start the name calling and fears of implications.
If you wish to speak in an open forum, and for all STO players this forum is open, then do not be a Sophie and only wish to hear those things you like to hear and dismiss others so harshly.
Some of our opinons on the creation of a third faction are valid in that we KDF fans whom still care do not wish to see another half-created faction appear while we still have the last half-created faction unfinished.
Otherwise you ideas are fine though I do disagree with them on many levels, such as Races in the faction, the fact it in part seems you want a free lock box ship out of it, how the faction is composed (though its a moot point after the RSE habitat for something for the Humans to do and drag us KDF into program was released) and other areas.
also a dozen breen ships are no match for 1 warbird
I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you. Whilst we have no actual knowledge to back these up, knowing the Breen, knowing their ships, and knowing the Romulans and their ships, in addition to knowing the Romulans and Breen have history, it's fair to say that the two powers have had conflicts of their own.
Why is it you believe Romulan ships to be far superior?
they decloak
fire
ESD disappears
The Quantum bombs rain down
Earth dies
I don't think it would be quite as simple as you make it out to be. It wouldn't surprise me if the enire solar system was rigged with tachyon detection arrays to detect cloaked ships.
They used the tech manuals, the movies, and the magazine articles to create the page on this ship.
I'm sure they did use all those resources, but to examine them and come to the conclusion that the Sovereign was built to fight the Borg isn't a conclusion I'd have come too. Ships built to fight the Borg would be Escorts, not Cruisers with Astrometrics and Science Labs.
The Defiant all by itself was not designed to take down a Borg cube, it was envisioned that a fleet of Defiants would be the Borg killer. The designer of the Sovereign saw it as a replacement for the Excelsior rather than the Galaxy.
However, the Sovereign can take a beating whilst the Mogai cannot.
You are forgetting here that Shinzon wanted Picard alive. He didn't care about the Romulans. If he could destroy their ships, why stop? He wanted the Enterprise and Picard, thus they weren't destroyed. I'm sure if Shinzon wanted, the Scimitar could have wiped the floor with the Sovereign. I don't think the Sovereign is any more superior than these new Warbirds.
I agree Syber, but the OP will just make another thread about his/her idea about the Romulan-Cardassian fusion faction in another new thread.
Wow! We have a psychic on the forums. I guess as you've predicted it, it will have to happen huh? Tell me of psychic one, what's going in next weeks patch?
As much as I want to see this happen, I can't see it. Star Trek as we know it is over. That happened as soon as JJ came along with his film. They're either going to have to reboot it again, or just leave it be.
There is no reason to start a third faction in STO when the KDF is incomplete. I would add that since the story of STo is also erratic they may want to flesh out some lose-ends and bring some aspects back inline before attempting to write a new faction into the game and its material.
Whilst I may agree with you here, I did specifically ask that people not bring up either of the existing factions. I wrote that as clear as possible.
You though may wish to find a therapist and discuss your passive-agressive tendency to both provoke and patronize those whom do not choose to abide by your wishing to impose a silence on speaking out that the KDF needs to be completed before a new third faction is integrated into the game.
Besides stating the obvious (something everyone already knows) what gain do you have by commenting on something that has been asked against?
The mere fact you admitted to not having read the original post before you replied somewhat makes your comment irrelevant anyway.
I found in my opinion you apply in the Troll definition becuase of the your statement "For the purpose of this topic, I don't care, nor do I wish to hear about the status of either the Federation or Klingon factions. I would hope that is understood." becuase I did find it inflammatory and it does disrupt the normal on-topic discussion by limiting my and others replies from the very begining.
See my above reply.
The KDF is related, sure, but there are a whole bunch of other threads about that. Why discuss it here? This thread is about a proposal (one that seems less desired) for a third faction. You, nor anyone else has anything to gain by bringing up the incomplete. That doesn't promote this topic at all. It just turns it into another one of them. (them being the other KDF-focused topics where everyone talks about how the KDF isn't finished).
I find you a wanker, in a general reference, because your where given ample benefit of the doubt and explained your desires very well in the opening post and posts in the five pages that followed. When I harmlessly agreed with Custymacs reply in post # five with my own on page 5/ post #44 and followed it with my snarky "Oh... and KDF faction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" reply to your wish for limited discussion on the topic.
I suppose you're entitled to your opinion, I would not wish to try and change your mind on that. But again, the need to discuss the KDF is irrelevant. I did quote the other person too with a reminder of the original post if I am not mistaken? It wasn't just you.
The Edit and further belief in your act possibly trolling with this thread is becuase you where snarky to Crustymac for his reply becuase it was against your wishes and then you where snarky against Centersolace becuase his supported Crusty's post while poking fun at that same desire you stated to control how another person can reply in a open forum even when its one on an idea you have to share. Wanker may figure in here too.
You did not hesitate to attack me or them in a fashion for stating our opinions. None of which even insulted you directly or indirectly, they merely breached a subject you didn't want to hear.
I desired a discussion on a potential third faction. I asked that the first and second factions be left out of it. That request was denied. Would it not be fair to say that those who posted disregarding my request were firstly inconsiderate to my goal, and also trolls themselves? If your definition for a troll (as mentioned above) is correct, then a bunch of people jumping into a thread saying "we want klingons" when it is asked not to mention them would be considered trolling behavior.
If you wish to speak in an open forum, and for all STO players this forum is open, then do not be a Sophie and only wish to hear those things you like to hear and dismiss others so harshly.
As stated above (and I seem to need to say this quite a bit). I don't need to hear about what I already know. There isn't a single person playing this game today that doesn't know the KDF is lacking on content. People commenting and moaning about it isn't going to help nor change that; it hasn't done so in the past three years, and it isn't going to now. This topic should be focused on a discussion for a third faction, not be dwelling on the second.
Some of our opinons on the creation of a third faction are valid in that we KDF fans whom still care do not wish to see another half-created faction appear while we still have the last half-created faction unfinished.
That's fair enough, but if you (or anyone else) wishes to discuss the KDF, all I ask is that you do it elsewhere. It's hardly asking a lot.
Otherwise you ideas are fine though I do disagree with them on many levels, such as Races in the faction, the fact it in part seems you want a free lock box ship out of it, how the faction is composed (though its a moot point after the RSE habitat for something for the Humans to do and drag us KDF into program was released) and other areas.
Again, that's fine. This thread (in general) is about finding out what people think of my proposal, and also sharing their own.
For what it's worth too, I apologies for calling you an idiot and also to others that I may have sounded abrupt too. It would just have had been nice if the original post was read before people started commenting (people have admitted to not having done this). Most people probably saw the title, and then dropped a comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
also a dozen breen ships are no match for 1 warbird
I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you. Whilst we have no actual knowledge to back these up, knowing the Breen, knowing their ships, and knowing the Romulans and their ships, in addition to knowing the Romulans and Breen have history, it's fair to say that the two powers have had conflicts of their own.
Why is it you believe Romulan ships to be far superior?
personal experience amongst other things
Breen ships are no threat except in numbers
warbirds HURT
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
and ESD is outside the range of earths defences
I'd imagine ESD (like any other space station) would have defenses of it's own.
with Quinn in charge??
probably not
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
they decloak
fire
ESD disappears
The Quantum bombs rain down
Earth dies
I don't think it would be quite as simple as you make it out to be. It wouldn't surprise me if the enire solar system was rigged with tachyon detection arrays to detect cloaked ships.
its not
Remember some of us have played as klingons and flown Right up to utopia and opened fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
only because the defiant is a romulan ship itself
Last I checked, the Defiant was a Starfleet ship.
and the M1a2 Abrams is Israeli??
The Tech is mostly Romulan
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussweatherlight
Romulans and Breen?
Actually, I could see the Breen and Romulans uniting, as well as the Tholians.
I can't say about the Tholian, but in one episode of DS9 it was insinuated that there is bad blood between the Romulan and Breen.
Where could tholian and breen have a meeting?
they are unable to live in each others environments even with a suit
AND the Tholians hate anything biped (two legged before someone reports me for language
personal experience amongst other things
Breen ships are no threat except in numbers
warbirds HURT
Personal experience?
I see we are talking about two very different things. You are obviously on about the ships within STO (most of which aren't balanced). I thought we were talking about the shows and films.
they are unable to live in each others environments even with a suit
Actually, I'm sure if Breen wore EV suits they could go to Tholian Planets, and we know the Tholian have EV suits cause they're walking around New Romulus.
And I apoligise for my deragatory terms towards you spoken in misdirected angst.
Your ideas on the third faction are as good as any, even if I do not agree with all of it.
The Defiant is a Federation ship completely, except for the one component that one ship had.
So, if the Sovereign wasn't designed to fight against the most powerful enemy the Federation has, who was it designed to fight? The Federation didn't even know of the Dominion at the time the ship was being laid down for building (iirc), they were allied with the Klingons, and the Romulans were hanging out past the nuetral zone scheming their Rommy schemes.
So seriously, what is the ship designed to fight against?
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"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
So, if the Sovereign wasn't designed to fight against the most powerful enemy the Federation has, who was it designed to fight?
Why would the Sovereign have been designed to fight anyone? Could it not be that the Sovereign was instead designed as the next generation cruiser, for multi-role purposes? I highly doubt they designed the Sovereign to specifically fight anyone, be that the Klingons, Romulan or Borg.
If anything, it would be Escorts that are designed to fight something (such as the Defiant in response to a Borg threat (yes, it's a Federation ship, not Romulan)). Cruisers and Science Ships aren't built with a target in mind, they're instead built with a purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
personal experience amongst other things
Breen ships are no threat except in numbers
warbirds HURT
Personal experience?
I see we are talking about two very different things. You are obviously on about the ships within STO (most of which aren't balanced). I thought we were talking about the shows and films.
Sorry should have made that clear
Breen ships in STO are lame
Warbirds are much much more potent (level for level)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
The Tech is mostly Romulan
Why is the Defiant Romulan?
romulan cloak
romulan secondary power system
romulan designed electronics and sensors
and romulan officer aboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
Where could tholian and breen have a meeting?
they are unable to live in each others environments even with a suit
Actually, I'm sure if Breen wore EV suits they could go to Tholian Planets, and we know the Tholian have EV suits cause they're walking around New Romulus.
tholians need a suit for our atmosphere and temperature
So do Breen
both are at the extreme ends of their suits in OUR environments
a tholian in Breen environment would die and a breen in tholian environment would actually burst into flames
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
AND the Tholians hate anything biped (two legged before someone reports me for language
We don't actually know this. What we have is speculation at best.
romulan cloak
romulan secondary power system
romulan designed electronics and sensors
and romulan officer aboard
Again, are you talking about the game-defiant here, or the show/film defiant?
Then again, either way, the Defiant is still a Federation ship; it's a Defiant Class, designed by Starfleet Corps of Engineering. STO Defiants may come with a cloak, but in the show/films, only a single Defiant ever came with a cloak, and the Romulan Officer you mention was only there to supervise the installation of the cloaking device.
I can't even remember whether the second Defiant ship (Sao Paulo) had a cloak.
tholians need a suit for our atmosphere and temperature
So do Breen
both are at the extreme ends of their suits in OUR environments
a tholian in Breen environment would die and a breen in tholian environment would actually burst into flames
Then both species could meet on mutual grounds?
Besides, if an EV suit was properly designed, it wouldn't matter the location. If it is designed to work in a certain environment, then it should, and most likely would. I'm sure if the Tholians really wanted to walk around on the Breen or Andorian homeworld they could.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
Breen ships in STO are lame
Warbirds are much much more potent (level for level)
From within STO, you are correct. It is tougher fighting Romulan ships than it is Breen.
Well we can agree on that at least
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
romulan cloak
romulan secondary power system
romulan designed electronics and sensors
and romulan officer aboard
Again, are you talking about the game-defiant here, or the show/film defiant?
show version
the ship needed romulan sensors so it could operate while cloaked (etc)
Then again, either way, the Defiant is still a Federation ship; it's a Defiant Class, designed by Starfleet Corps of Engineering. STO Defiants may come with a cloak, but in the show/films, only a single Defiant ever came with a cloak, and the Romulan Officer you mention was only there to supervise the installation of the cloaking device.
I can't even remember whether the second Defiant ship (Sao Paulo) had a cloak.
probably not
but all ingame ones do
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
tholians need a suit for our atmosphere and temperature
So do Breen
both are at the extreme ends of their suits in OUR environments
a tholian in Breen environment would die and a breen in tholian environment would actually burst into flames
Then both species could meet on mutual grounds?
question is where ?
Besides, if an EV suit was properly designed, it wouldn't matter the location. If it is designed to work in a certain environment, then it should, and most likely would. I'm sure if the Tholians really wanted to walk around on the Breen or Andorian homeworld they could.
I find it unlikely
but then we (bipeds) are wearing tholian suits made for bipeds
which is to me Weird
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
we do actually
extreme xenophobia
since TOS
That doesn't specifically mean they dislike anything with two legs. They could equally dislike species with four legs, or a tail.
If your strategy is so brilliant, sollvax (and I thought of the same thing when I was a kid, as I'm sure many people did) then it makes every captain who had automated shuttles with warp drives at their disposal an idiot. It makes Sisko, Picard, Janeway, and Kirk idiots.
It would be bad drama to allow this to work. So anyone writing for Trek would have to come up with excuses why this is a bad idea (ie. "The resulting explosion would create a subspace rift that would backtrack along the shuttle's impulse trail, destroying any ship that launched it!", "Objects moving at warp register as energy to shields and standard shields already deflect phaser attacks that deal damage in excess of 200^20th power joules! Any ship attempting this would be dissipated instantly, without leaving a scratch!"") , to keep the drama intact.
Drama is more important than physics. And regardless of what has been established, the physics will always contort to the drama.
Well, ramming at warp has NEVER been done in Star Trek. By anyone... impulse, yes, Warp? no.
Why not? Well, one, it makes for a cruddy plot.
I forget where but I have this itch in my brain that tells me that plotting a warp trajectory like that doesn't work for some reason.
Either way, the Borg would adapt after one use and come up with some sort of defense.
the only way I could see a Tal Shiar/Obsidian order teamup is if the faction was doing the mercenary angle. But that's not the RSE or CU as part of the faction, it's a group of outcasts.
Incorrect. The Borg collective would know how you destroyed the ship unless you somehow jammed their Central Plexus communications. The Collective would survive, and they would adapt.
Flash, every tool has a purpose in mind when it's designed. Obviously the Galaxy and Excelsior classes were on par with contemporary Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, Tholian, and even the Dominion, designs, and so weren't really in need of replacement. Refitting could have performed the necessary upgrade without the time and effort put into a completely new design.
So which faction did the Federation have a lot of trouble with? The Borg. They had no contemporary counter to the Borg's capabilities. And so they designed a new fleet. Not just a ship (the Defiant) to be able to work in tandem to counter the Borg, as well as be fully capable of dealing with the more immediate, bordering, factions.
Read design goals of many american naval ships. They all have a niche role to be fulfilled. Something the opponent has that they are meant to counter.
You don't create a whole new tool to do the same job as an existing tool without a good reason. I see no reason to replace the Galaxy, as it's more capable than the Sovereign in non-wartime roles, and almost on par in combat roles. The better multi-role ship is the Galaxy.
Which brings another aspect to the creation reasoning and philosophy of the Sovereign. It's a warship. No civvies, minimal diplomatic facilities (in relation to the Galaxy), compact, agile for a ship it's size. If the Federation were to have a predator ship, the Sovereign closely follows the Defiant.
I'm unwilling to accept that any military organization would just design something completely new which serves no purpose that a current ship couldn't already fulfill.
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"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
Just commenting about the beginning of the thread (since i don't know where it meandered to at the end), the Romulans need to be the primary focus of a third faction. The Cardassian can be included as an alternate Captain, but the ships should be Romulan only (no Cardy or Dominion ships). The idea of allowing Cardy is that canon did see cooperation between Cardy and Romulan (though it was a failed attack against the Dominion) and the goal is to maintain an influence in that part of space near the worm-hole. The lockbox ships cannot be made into free ships (and I don't think CBS would allow this to happen). In fact, the next lockbox will probably be the Dominion Escort and I won't be surprised if a Keldon lockbox is also developed for profit.
Of course, there still is the "elephant in the room" known as the KDF faction that still needs more development, so I don't see any serious work on a third faction for most (if not all) of 2013; also, we still need some real end-game story content.
Sentinel, the reason the Galor and Bugship are lockbox is because those factions aren't in the game, and CBS doesn't want a rampant problem of feds or klings riding in other factions ships.
Plus, we kinda already covered that aspect, lol.
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"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
The alcubierre warp drive wouldn't allow a collision, in theory. But I've never heard of such a thing in ST.
I might be thinking of another Sci-fi franchise. In some, hyperspace travel has this inherent "fudge factor" that prevents you from being able to choose your exit this precisely.
At any rate, if you could the shuttlebomb idea would likely cause a subspace rift. It'd be very similar to why the Federation wants Omega to cease to exist.
It was in the episode that introduce the Defiant that would the first in a new battle fleet, no speculation. The Sovereign doesn't have to be designed to fight anyone, as most ships are designed to fill a specific mission type or replace an existing class. Mostly what Weatherlight said, the designer of the Sovereign foresaw this ship as replacing the Excelsior-class, however from what we have seen of the Sovereign, I would this ship fills the niche of a battlecruiser of battleship.
Shinzon may have wanted to capture Picard, but the Enterprise still took a worse beating than the Mogais and the fact the Enterprise rammed the Scimitar and still survived.
The Galaxy is obviously a flagship since it does have flag facilities (battle bridge) and does have the capacity to coordinate a fleet (Redemption Part II).
Secondly, isn't this your second thread about the exact same thing a few weeks about having the Romulans team up with the Cardassians for a third faction? I
I'm all for a new faction, I just don't think mixing them is a good idea. As above, they have different philsophies. However I see what you've tried to do; combine the best of both worlds, because in my opinion, creating both factions individually would be quite difficult. t present, I believe a Cardassian faction would be easier to create.
The Cardassians have the advantage of being quite standalone in terms of the feature episodes, so I think every series could be adapted to fit the faction without too much stress. As for a campaign, swap the Fed/Klingon War sections for a section in that part of space, with battles with the True Way, development rebuilding Cardassia Prime, and diplomacy with the Bajorans. Then, remove the current Starfleet Cardassian missions, just have the 2800 series.
In way of species, for a Card faction I would have Cardassians (Male and Female), Alpha Jem'Hadar (Male only), Ferengi male and female (they were always prevelent in that part of space in DS9), possibly Caitain/Ferasan or similar (both Male and Female) and Joined Trill (male and female - for those who purchsed it for the FED or KDF)
For ships, start off with a Hideki. At each tier, as the Klingons have BOP, Raptors, and Battle Cruisers, each class looking similar to other ships in it's 'section', I would have variations on the Galor/Keldon for cruisers, have variations on the Hideki/Bugship for escorts, and rather than true science vessels, have something in between escorts and cruisers with a bit of a science-y console layout. (*I feel the original Galor would fit in nicely at Captain, and the Jem'hadar dreadnought at Vice Admiral)
Sadly, the Cardassians fall down in lieu of what ships they have, whereas the Romulans have ships already that fit nicely into the current rank structure (Mogai could go at Commander and D'deridex screams to get squeezed into the captain level, with a toned down Scimitar at VA).
However, while I am passionate about a Romulan faction, at the moment, I just don't thing the storyline is their while the Empire is so split. The Cardassians may be the way forward.
Fleet Admiral Robert Leece
USS Silverburn NX-150996-B
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit [T5-U]
show version
the ship needed romulan sensors so it could operate while cloaked (etc)
The show Defiant is not a Romulan ship. It has a Romulan cloaking device, that's it. It doesn't have Romulan Sensors, it doesn't have Romulan Shields, it doesn't have Romulan Engines, and it was built at the Mars Shipyards.
I would agree, the Dominion would be an interesting faction. The only problem with them is that they're on the other side of the wormhole and have no business being on our side anymore. The War finished long ago, and the 2800 pretty much set them up as doing their own thing in their own space. We really need a third faction that will be able to interact with the Federation and Klingon.
That being said, it has been mentioned of a more neutral faction, and the Dominion would fit in there (not having an aggressive stance to either the FED or KDF). I suspect though, the Dominion will be saved for a further reputation system that deals with Polaron weaponry and Vorta Bridge Officers.
Flash, every tool has a purpose in mind when it's designed. Obviously the Galaxy and Excelsior classes were on par with contemporary Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, Tholian, and even the Dominion, designs, and so weren't really in need of replacement. Refitting could have performed the necessary upgrade without the time and effort put into a completely new design.
I would imagine most of the Excelsior Class vessels (disregarding STO) would have been close to retirement come the Dominion War. It's a fair bet they were kept around as Starfleet needed ships.
Hell, how many Miranda Class did we see in the war alone?
You don't create a whole new tool to do the same job as an existing tool without a good reason. I see no reason to replace the Galaxy, as it's more capable than the Sovereign in non-wartime roles, and almost on par in combat roles. The better multi-role ship is the Galaxy.
Which brings another aspect to the creation reasoning and philosophy of the Sovereign. It's a warship. No civvies, minimal diplomatic facilities (in relation to the Galaxy), compact, agile for a ship it's size. If the Federation were to have a predator ship, the Sovereign closely follows the Defiant.
Except that the Sovereign is still a Cruiser outfitted for multiple mission roles. If it was designed purely for the Borg, they wouldn't have bothered with all the exploration and scientific tools and equipment that it had.
Besides the fact, the Sovereign was designed (if I'm not mistaken) in the Dominion War. It's a safe bet to think that the Sovereign was designed to fight the Dominion, not the Borg. The Defiant (before the war) was designed to fight the Borg. That was explicitly stated to be such.
If you wish to believe the Sovereign was designed to fight the Borg, you're more than welcome to believe so. I however do not see any reason nor evidence to support your conclusion so shall continue to believe otherwise.
In fact, the next lockbox will probably be the Dominion Escort and I won't be surprised if a Keldon lockbox is also developed for profit.
Yeah, you're probably right. Either that or the Warship with the other going into the Lobi Store. I'm not so sure about a Keldon though. They were limited enough in the series as it is. They'd be better off making it an optional upgrade to those who have the Galor.
Of course, there still is the "elephant in the room" known as the KDF faction that still needs more development, so I don't see any serious work on a third faction for most (if not all) of 2013; also, we still need some real end-game story content.
:rolleyes: I thought you said you read the beginning of the thread?
Shinzon may have wanted to capture Picard, but the Enterprise still took a worse beating than the Mogais and the fact the Enterprise rammed the Scimitar and still survived.
...because one Mogai had one less wing than the other one, which was completely disabled. Shinzon took the Enterprise to the point where (he thought) Picard would surrender to save his crew (or something).
Secondly, isn't this your second thread about the exact same thing a few weeks about having the Romulans team up with the Cardassians for a third faction?
It'll be my last, don't worry.
The reason (if you were wondering) is that I actually started this one with a fully-fledged out proposal (ideas, reasons, explanations) etc. The other thread started out all up in the air (so to speak).
Whilst I too would like to play as a Cardassian over a Romulan, they're never going to give us a Cardassian faction before a Romulan one. Romulans will always be number #3.
Comments
But the Dominion faction idea might hold some merit as mentioned before they are still powerful got everything in place and are very stable, they can be brang into the game with sectors laying the other side of the wormhole and as another faction with the potential of waging a full on war with the FED and KDF.
However i'd Rather see the Romulans and Cardassians stableised and re-militarised in game and hopefully on TV soon xD
Last thing I heard, which would be great, is this.
http://screenrant.com/star-trek-captain-worf-tv-show-michael-dorn/
http://nerdbastards.com/2012/09/04/michael-dorn-pushing-captain-worf-spin-off-with-some-success/
But nothing official from CBS so far. And I think they have their workload cut out for the blu ray remastering. Which is great so far, bought both seasons of TNG so far. I'd like to see DS9 on Blu Ray. So People please buy this stuff so CBS sees that people spend money on it and the continue to remaster all older series.
Oh and for those of you ranting "Eww that costs way too much money". Watch this.
But back to topic.
Still want my playable Romulans.
Wood has grain and interlocks on the cell level
its actually harder to break wood than brick with bullets (weird but true)
A Borg cube however is a largely open interior frame work with artificial bonds
its closer to the Rubics cube
_____________________________________________
As A kid (long long ago) It never occured to me
as an adult it became obvious
of course it only works against a really stupid enemy (like the borg)
Klingons cloak, romulans cloak and federation ships fight while moving
it also relys on the target being massive (a shuttle at warp might punch a hole in a warbird and vapourise a cube because the warbird is not as heavy)
Kirk era answer "It would violate treaty captain"
TNG era answer "everyone aboard the enterprise would be killed sir"
Voyager era answer "the paint would get scratched captain"
nah
theres no drama at all with the borg
a bunch of really stupid zombies attack seem invincible then lose
Actually no
newton was passed in the 1960's im afraid
most of his equations do not work
and of course the man was more than half an alchemist
thus warp
actually a transluminal object is possible (just massively expensive in energy terms)
the borg cubes own structure and "fields" will cause it to be destroyed
actually turning off shields and going into reverse are the best defences
Back on topic:
IMHO a third faction, while being nice, may be a bit superfluous the way the game is set up now. Maybe if there was a PvP system where factions battled for control over sectors (in space and on planets, something along the lines of Planetside 2 or the old Air Warrior series) then a third faction may make sense. Flying around in a Mogai named "V@ldore" maybe nice, but without a fleshed out process as to what the endgame will be for the faction will be and how you will get there, there really isn't much of a point.
And quite frankly, this game is pretty much "warp into sector, kill ships, beam to planet, kill endless hordes, leave planet, kill more ships, report to Starfleet." To only real difference with "the other faction" (since OP asked us not to name it) is that you report to High Command.
Do we really need another faction to do what we've been doing for the past 3 years?
It's a popular movie (critically and financially) that reinvegerated a dead franchise and reintroduced to a younger generation, deal with it.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
1'st: Well.. Yes.
2'nd: I never said it was not. I just stated I don't like it. It is a good Popcorn Action Movie, like Transformers or Die Hard or Rambo, you name it. But for me it is no "real" Star Trek. And I think I am entitled to my own opinion. Am I not?
R.I.P
Why is it you believe Romulan ships to be far superior?
I'd imagine ESD (like any other space station) would have defenses of it's own.
I don't think it would be quite as simple as you make it out to be. It wouldn't surprise me if the enire solar system was rigged with tachyon detection arrays to detect cloaked ships.
Last I checked, the Defiant was a Starfleet ship.
A fan page? That's your source? This will not do.
I'm sure they did use all those resources, but to examine them and come to the conclusion that the Sovereign was built to fight the Borg isn't a conclusion I'd have come too. Ships built to fight the Borg would be Escorts, not Cruisers with Astrometrics and Science Labs.
That is speculation only.
You are forgetting here that Shinzon wanted Picard alive. He didn't care about the Romulans. If he could destroy their ships, why stop? He wanted the Enterprise and Picard, thus they weren't destroyed. I'm sure if Shinzon wanted, the Scimitar could have wiped the floor with the Sovereign. I don't think the Sovereign is any more superior than these new Warbirds.
I can't say about the Tholian, but in one episode of DS9 it was insinuated that there is bad blood between the Romulan and Breen.
Do me and yourself a favor. Read the first post. Especially the second paragraph.
Wow! We have a psychic on the forums. I guess as you've predicted it, it will have to happen huh? Tell me of psychic one, what's going in next weeks patch?
As much as I want to see this happen, I can't see it. Star Trek as we know it is over. That happened as soon as JJ came along with his film. They're either going to have to reboot it again, or just leave it be.
Whilst I may agree with you here, I did specifically ask that people not bring up either of the existing factions. I wrote that as clear as possible.
Besides stating the obvious (something everyone already knows) what gain do you have by commenting on something that has been asked against?
The mere fact you admitted to not having read the original post before you replied somewhat makes your comment irrelevant anyway.
See my above reply.
The KDF is related, sure, but there are a whole bunch of other threads about that. Why discuss it here? This thread is about a proposal (one that seems less desired) for a third faction. You, nor anyone else has anything to gain by bringing up the incomplete. That doesn't promote this topic at all. It just turns it into another one of them. (them being the other KDF-focused topics where everyone talks about how the KDF isn't finished).
I suppose you're entitled to your opinion, I would not wish to try and change your mind on that. But again, the need to discuss the KDF is irrelevant. I did quote the other person too with a reminder of the original post if I am not mistaken? It wasn't just you.
I desired a discussion on a potential third faction. I asked that the first and second factions be left out of it. That request was denied. Would it not be fair to say that those who posted disregarding my request were firstly inconsiderate to my goal, and also trolls themselves? If your definition for a troll (as mentioned above) is correct, then a bunch of people jumping into a thread saying "we want klingons" when it is asked not to mention them would be considered trolling behavior.
I would say there is a significant difference between calling someone an idiot, to calling them a trolling wanker. :rolleyes:
As stated above (and I seem to need to say this quite a bit). I don't need to hear about what I already know. There isn't a single person playing this game today that doesn't know the KDF is lacking on content. People commenting and moaning about it isn't going to help nor change that; it hasn't done so in the past three years, and it isn't going to now. This topic should be focused on a discussion for a third faction, not be dwelling on the second.
That's fair enough, but if you (or anyone else) wishes to discuss the KDF, all I ask is that you do it elsewhere. It's hardly asking a lot.
Again, that's fine. This thread (in general) is about finding out what people think of my proposal, and also sharing their own.
For what it's worth too, I apologies for calling you an idiot and also to others that I may have sounded abrupt too. It would just have had been nice if the original post was read before people started commenting (people have admitted to not having done this). Most people probably saw the title, and then dropped a comment.
personal experience amongst other things
Breen ships are no threat except in numbers
warbirds HURT
with Quinn in charge??
probably not
its not
Remember some of us have played as klingons and flown Right up to utopia and opened fire
and the M1a2 Abrams is Israeli??
The Tech is mostly Romulan
Where could tholian and breen have a meeting?
they are unable to live in each others environments even with a suit
AND the Tholians hate anything biped (two legged before someone reports me for language
I see we are talking about two very different things. You are obviously on about the ships within STO (most of which aren't balanced). I thought we were talking about the shows and films.
Why is the Defiant Romulan?
Actually, I'm sure if Breen wore EV suits they could go to Tholian Planets, and we know the Tholian have EV suits cause they're walking around New Romulus.
We don't actually know this. What we have is speculation at best.
Your ideas on the third faction are as good as any, even if I do not agree with all of it.
R.I.P
So, if the Sovereign wasn't designed to fight against the most powerful enemy the Federation has, who was it designed to fight? The Federation didn't even know of the Dominion at the time the ship was being laid down for building (iirc), they were allied with the Klingons, and the Romulans were hanging out past the nuetral zone scheming their Rommy schemes.
So seriously, what is the ship designed to fight against?
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
Noted.
Why would the Sovereign have been designed to fight anyone? Could it not be that the Sovereign was instead designed as the next generation cruiser, for multi-role purposes? I highly doubt they designed the Sovereign to specifically fight anyone, be that the Klingons, Romulan or Borg.
If anything, it would be Escorts that are designed to fight something (such as the Defiant in response to a Borg threat (yes, it's a Federation ship, not Romulan)). Cruisers and Science Ships aren't built with a target in mind, they're instead built with a purpose.
Sorry should have made that clear
Breen ships in STO are lame
Warbirds are much much more potent (level for level)
romulan cloak
romulan secondary power system
romulan designed electronics and sensors
and romulan officer aboard
tholians need a suit for our atmosphere and temperature
So do Breen
both are at the extreme ends of their suits in OUR environments
a tholian in Breen environment would die and a breen in tholian environment would actually burst into flames
we do actually
extreme xenophobia
since TOS
Again, are you talking about the game-defiant here, or the show/film defiant?
Then again, either way, the Defiant is still a Federation ship; it's a Defiant Class, designed by Starfleet Corps of Engineering. STO Defiants may come with a cloak, but in the show/films, only a single Defiant ever came with a cloak, and the Romulan Officer you mention was only there to supervise the installation of the cloaking device.
I can't even remember whether the second Defiant ship (Sao Paulo) had a cloak.
Then both species could meet on mutual grounds?
Besides, if an EV suit was properly designed, it wouldn't matter the location. If it is designed to work in a certain environment, then it should, and most likely would. I'm sure if the Tholians really wanted to walk around on the Breen or Andorian homeworld they could.
That doesn't specifically mean they dislike anything with two legs. They could equally dislike species with four legs, or a tail.
Well we can agree on that at least
show version
the ship needed romulan sensors so it could operate while cloaked (etc)
probably not
but all ingame ones do
question is where ?
I find it unlikely
but then we (bipeds) are wearing tholian suits made for bipeds
which is to me Weird
surely not cats
everyone loves cats right?
Why not? Well, one, it makes for a cruddy plot.
I forget where but I have this itch in my brain that tells me that plotting a warp trajectory like that doesn't work for some reason.
Either way, the Borg would adapt after one use and come up with some sort of defense.
My character Tsin'xing
the only way I could see a Tal Shiar/Obsidian order teamup is if the faction was doing the mercenary angle. But that's not the RSE or CU as part of the faction, it's a group of outcasts.
the dominion would be interesting as a faction.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
So which faction did the Federation have a lot of trouble with? The Borg. They had no contemporary counter to the Borg's capabilities. And so they designed a new fleet. Not just a ship (the Defiant) to be able to work in tandem to counter the Borg, as well as be fully capable of dealing with the more immediate, bordering, factions.
Read design goals of many american naval ships. They all have a niche role to be fulfilled. Something the opponent has that they are meant to counter.
You don't create a whole new tool to do the same job as an existing tool without a good reason. I see no reason to replace the Galaxy, as it's more capable than the Sovereign in non-wartime roles, and almost on par in combat roles. The better multi-role ship is the Galaxy.
Which brings another aspect to the creation reasoning and philosophy of the Sovereign. It's a warship. No civvies, minimal diplomatic facilities (in relation to the Galaxy), compact, agile for a ship it's size. If the Federation were to have a predator ship, the Sovereign closely follows the Defiant.
I'm unwilling to accept that any military organization would just design something completely new which serves no purpose that a current ship couldn't already fulfill.
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
The alcubierre warp drive wouldn't allow a collision, in theory. But I've never heard of such a thing in ST.
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
Of course, there still is the "elephant in the room" known as the KDF faction that still needs more development, so I don't see any serious work on a third faction for most (if not all) of 2013; also, we still need some real end-game story content.
Plus, we kinda already covered that aspect, lol.
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
At any rate, if you could the shuttlebomb idea would likely cause a subspace rift. It'd be very similar to why the Federation wants Omega to cease to exist.
My character Tsin'xing
Shinzon may have wanted to capture Picard, but the Enterprise still took a worse beating than the Mogais and the fact the Enterprise rammed the Scimitar and still survived.
The Galaxy is obviously a flagship since it does have flag facilities (battle bridge) and does have the capacity to coordinate a fleet (Redemption Part II).
Secondly, isn't this your second thread about the exact same thing a few weeks about having the Romulans team up with the Cardassians for a third faction? I
The Cardassians have the advantage of being quite standalone in terms of the feature episodes, so I think every series could be adapted to fit the faction without too much stress. As for a campaign, swap the Fed/Klingon War sections for a section in that part of space, with battles with the True Way, development rebuilding Cardassia Prime, and diplomacy with the Bajorans. Then, remove the current Starfleet Cardassian missions, just have the 2800 series.
In way of species, for a Card faction I would have Cardassians (Male and Female), Alpha Jem'Hadar (Male only), Ferengi male and female (they were always prevelent in that part of space in DS9), possibly Caitain/Ferasan or similar (both Male and Female) and Joined Trill (male and female - for those who purchsed it for the FED or KDF)
For ships, start off with a Hideki. At each tier, as the Klingons have BOP, Raptors, and Battle Cruisers, each class looking similar to other ships in it's 'section', I would have variations on the Galor/Keldon for cruisers, have variations on the Hideki/Bugship for escorts, and rather than true science vessels, have something in between escorts and cruisers with a bit of a science-y console layout. (*I feel the original Galor would fit in nicely at Captain, and the Jem'hadar dreadnought at Vice Admiral)
Sadly, the Cardassians fall down in lieu of what ships they have, whereas the Romulans have ships already that fit nicely into the current rank structure (Mogai could go at Commander and D'deridex screams to get squeezed into the captain level, with a toned down Scimitar at VA).
However, while I am passionate about a Romulan faction, at the moment, I just don't thing the storyline is their while the Empire is so split. The Cardassians may be the way forward.
USS Silverburn NX-150996-B
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit [T5-U]
Don't you mean the 2nd Faction? :P
Well hopefully Season 8 may be the answer to a fully fleshed out KDF, I am hoping so.
My character Tsin'xing
Not all the in-games ones do, only the zen-purchased and fleet versions (I think).
New Romulus? Earth? Cardassia? Bajor? Trill? Hell, there are countless worlds where both could walk with their suits on.
My Dad doesn't.
Thanks for that.
I would agree, the Dominion would be an interesting faction. The only problem with them is that they're on the other side of the wormhole and have no business being on our side anymore. The War finished long ago, and the 2800 pretty much set them up as doing their own thing in their own space. We really need a third faction that will be able to interact with the Federation and Klingon.
That being said, it has been mentioned of a more neutral faction, and the Dominion would fit in there (not having an aggressive stance to either the FED or KDF). I suspect though, the Dominion will be saved for a further reputation system that deals with Polaron weaponry and Vorta Bridge Officers.
I would imagine most of the Excelsior Class vessels (disregarding STO) would have been close to retirement come the Dominion War. It's a fair bet they were kept around as Starfleet needed ships.
Hell, how many Miranda Class did we see in the war alone?
Except that the Sovereign is still a Cruiser outfitted for multiple mission roles. If it was designed purely for the Borg, they wouldn't have bothered with all the exploration and scientific tools and equipment that it had.
Besides the fact, the Sovereign was designed (if I'm not mistaken) in the Dominion War. It's a safe bet to think that the Sovereign was designed to fight the Dominion, not the Borg. The Defiant (before the war) was designed to fight the Borg. That was explicitly stated to be such.
If you wish to believe the Sovereign was designed to fight the Borg, you're more than welcome to believe so. I however do not see any reason nor evidence to support your conclusion so shall continue to believe otherwise.
Yeah, you're probably right. Either that or the Warship with the other going into the Lobi Store. I'm not so sure about a Keldon though. They were limited enough in the series as it is. They'd be better off making it an optional upgrade to those who have the Galor.
:rolleyes: I thought you said you read the beginning of the thread?
...because one Mogai had one less wing than the other one, which was completely disabled. Shinzon took the Enterprise to the point where (he thought) Picard would surrender to save his crew (or something).
It'll be my last, don't worry.
The reason (if you were wondering) is that I actually started this one with a fully-fledged out proposal (ideas, reasons, explanations) etc. The other thread started out all up in the air (so to speak).
Whilst I too would like to play as a Cardassian over a Romulan, they're never going to give us a Cardassian faction before a Romulan one. Romulans will always be number #3.
First Post, Second Paragraph. Thanks.
Already have the ships, outfits, species.
Just need a starbase with the logos and were done