1st: continues the P2W power creep spiral, ask around PvP the best ships are all P2W and of the those Lotto ships are the best. Fyi, allowing someone to grind in game resourses doesn't absolve the P2W, since someone payed $ at some point.
2nd: added a new P2W currancy and store
3rd: It's gambling, people pay for the chance to get good to great stuff and will take ok to crappy stuff. People paying for good stuff w/a chance of nice to have xtras would be closer to a grab bag (lets be honest grab bags are usually just something fun to do and often the most fun ones are the white elephants).
4th: It was visually annoying to see the boxes dropping everywhere. (This has been corrected for space).
5th: Need or Greed popups were annoying (This has been corrected as well don't really play ground anymore).
6th: Hasn't resulted in more high quality content, PvE nor PvP. In the last year we've had 1 F.E., 1 KDF 1 off mission, 1 short Friday the 13th temporary misssion. I don't consider grinding missions aka STF and Fleet missions as quality content. Don't get me started on the lack of PvP development tracks.
Further, even the F.E. released this year was basically an advertisement for Lockboxes. Imo, there's been striking little quality content released (2 one off missions on of which was temporary) that didn't have a direct revenue stream to back it. This includes Fleets and Doffs. I'd been happy if they let a couple of devs make quarterly to monthly missions of various lengths, and or actually had a project plan in place and making progress for MMO scaled PvP. Coupled w/the lost year of Dev time while it was a sub based game I'm fine w/people griping all they want for as long as they want about lock boxes.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Grab bags are not gambling.
People can make a choice to not play.
So it's not gambling if people can choose not to do it? Nobody is forced to play the slots in Vegas and it's still called gambling. EPIC FAIL OF A POST YOU DID
And OP, as long as the boxes are there, they are open to the comments. May be YOU are the one who needs to get over the comments.
_____
Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
That's a horrible example. When you pay for a box of Crackerjacks, you're purchasing the food stuffs--not the chance at a prize. When you buy a lockbox, you're not buying it for the box, but for the chance at something that could be inside the box.
There are other brands of the same foodstuff, and most of them taste better and sell for the same price or less. They don't have the prize inside, though; and like the lockboxes, a Crackerjack box *ALWAYS* has something, barring a packaging defect. It's brilliant marketing, and nobody complains about it, even though the value of the prizes is miniscule.
I don't buy lockboxes for the chance of a prize; I buy them because I know that over even small sample sizes, I'll average more than 1.4 million EC in value from them, and over any larger sample size, significantly more. If they didn't average more than that, I'd be selling the keys, not opening the boxes.
In other words, I don't buy them for the ships that might drop; I buy them for the ships that I will absolutely guaranteed get from them. You are guaranteed a certain minimum value from a lockbox; feel free to make your economic decisions on their value on that basis. The fact is a tremendous number of people like them, and they're optional for you. You can use ingame resources to get everything in them that's of any substantive difference from other ingame assets.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
meimeitoo isn't denying he "had to" get the item, the debate is why he is complaining if he is happy and have no regrets.
Yes, that's what I said for 10 posts now, it don't matter you trying to convince me by typing "lol" or whatever, it only puts the effort you throw into trying to pose and pretend on display - which is pointless since your displeasure is with your purchase, and not tied to my perception, I can't change that for you even if you did eventually manage to actually persuade me.
Since my perception is so utterly skewed why waste time on trying to change it. Vanity ? Yep.
And that's another example, you don't have to defend what isn't in question.
J
ust like you feel you have to justify how you aren't being an addict... I never said you were bitter and upset over what I said, I said you don't feel satisfied with your purchase and that makes you come off as bitter and upset.
Basically overtalking here and giving out information in a situation that didn't require you to say anything.
Because yes NOW I do know you are upset with me too and it doesn't take anymore than someone disagree with you in a polite manner to get you there.
And that's also going back to one of my first posts, where I complimented you for being a poor liar which is a good quality - you just have to be aware of the fact so that you don't get yourself in trouble as with in this here example
Don't you understand, I'm just toying with you? For lolz. You keep coming back with these what you no doubt think are fiendishly clever retorts, yet all you do is look incredibly trollish every time. Just a FYI.
If I ever do get upset with you, I'll let you know, k? In the meantime, yawn.
I don't buy lockboxes for the chance of a prize; I buy them because I know that over even small sample sizes, I'll average more than 1.4 million EC in value from them, and over any larger sample size, significantly more
Considering the odds and monitoring the exchange closely every day, I can say that you are completely wrong. The average value of the lockbox is rather around 250-300k EC per key. It would require more serious calculation but it must be very close. Consoles, doff packs and boosters, have a very low market value. Even the purple doff won't pay for your key. Actually, only the ship will, and the odds to get it are insanely low (0.5%).
These prices gives us a good insight on what people want when they open a box: they want the ship, nothing else, and will sell every other piece of TRIBBLE they get to recover some credits to buy more keys or to save for the ship itself. The only people who could give a damn about the regular doffs packs are the hardcore fleet farmers, and the only ones having some interest in consoles and purple doff packs are good players with the game knowledge to use them. The good guy opening the box couldn't care less about that.
So it's not gambling if people can choose not to do it? Nobody is forced to play the slots in Vegas and it's still called gambling. EPIC FAIL OF A POST YOU DID
Some definitions for you.
As originally posted in this thread.
grab bag : noun.
1. A container filled with articles, such as party gifts, to be drawn unseen.(all items are unseen just like doff packs.)
gambling :
gamble (gmbl)
v. gambled, gambling, gambles
v.intr. 1. a. To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.
Lockboxes are not uncertain. You are certain to get 4 LOBI plus 1 random item.
b. To play a game of chance for stakes. 2. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit. 3. To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: EXAMPLE : You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.
v.tr. 1. To put up as a stake in gambling; wager.No wager 2. To expose to hazard; risk: gambled their lives in a dangerous rescue mission.
n. 1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
(your not betting or doing a wager)
Ergo, lockboxes are not gambling accroding to recognized linguistic definitions of the word.
What they are is Grab Bags.
The point that people don't need to play is totally valid.
What kills me is that people seem to think it is Cryptic's responsibility to monitor people's unhealthy habits. Cryptic and by extension PWE are COMPANIES. Companies are NOT people. Is McDonald's responsible for the fat guy who can't stop eating their cheeseburgers ?
If someone you know, is actually a gambling addict, WHY is it the responsibilty of a company to help that person ?
The company should continue to do what it can to make money.
Helping the people who are sick, addicted, etc. is the responsibility of that person's friends and/or family.
My challenge to the people raging against the boxes and decrying Cryptic as reprehensibly immoral for all this, is as follows ...
IF indeed this gambling problem is SO terrible, I challenge you to put your money where your mouths are.
Do something that actually HELPS these people instead of raging about it.
Don't expect a company to be morally responsible for people's problems.
If you individually care so much, go volunteer at a gambling addicts hotline.
Volunteer in your community to help these people.
Oh , wait ... that would take time away from you playing your game.
Best to just rage about it on forums, and expect a company to do something that is actually an individual's responsibilty.
meimeitoo isn't denying he "had to" get the item, the debate is why he is complaining if he is happy and have no regrets.
This has actually has nothing to do with what I said.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to keep accusing meimeitoo of "regretting" his purchase when he's already plainly his opinions on said purchase, and I really don't care. It'd be nice if you'd take your pointless, bordering on harassment, argument to PMs rather than dragging down the rest of the thread with your off topic fascination with his personal life.
Some definitions for you.
As originally posted in this thread.
grab bag : noun.
1. A container filled with articles, such as party gifts, to be drawn unseen.(all items are unseen just like doff packs.)
gambling :
gamble (gmbl)
v. gambled, gambling, gambles
v.intr. 1. a. To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.
Lockboxes are not uncertain. You are certain to get 4 LOBI plus 1 random item.
EPIC FAIL ON THIS POST YOU DID.
Imagine a casino guaranteeing you, say, a minimum of 4 drinks (= lobi) for every time you used a slot machine; you think what they do would be considered any less gambling because of it?
If I ever do get upset with you, I'll let you know, k?
And that's another example. "I am laughing, I am bored and I am not upset"
First of all they contrast eachother, if you are going with a story you have to stick to it.
Like if you wanted to pretend you found something funny, you'd have to get into character of a person that is entertained and joyful.
Would it fit the profile to defend your ego for 11 pages ?
Then in your story you jump from having a jolly good time to being totally uninterested in 1 line. Unless you are manic you have to stick to the story.
Second, you are repeating the same mistake again, you are defending what is not in question.
You feel you have to directly come out and say "oh I am so laughing over this" because your emotional response is in question - which it wasn't until you brought it up, you felt it had to be defended and thus actually putting in a position where yes now it does.
You are basically only showing me what you would like me to think but you are not experienced enough to bluff or maybe intelligent enough - but like I said it's a good thing, you just need to become aware of strength and weaknesses.
What do I think ?
If people are happy with throwing 5000 $ or a million after a ship and they are happy then nothing else matters, least of all people's perception of you.
But if you aren't solid inside the appearance of being so is all you have left
Some definitions for you.
As originally posted in this thread.
grab bag : noun.
1. A container filled with articles, such as party gifts, to be drawn unseen.(all items are unseen just like doff packs.)
gambling :
gamble (gmbl)
v. gambled, gambling, gambles
v.intr. 1. a. To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.
Lockboxes are not uncertain. You are certain to get 4 LOBI plus 1 random item.
b. To play a game of chance for stakes. 2. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit. 3. To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: EXAMPLE : You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.
v.tr. 1. To put up as a stake in gambling; wager.No wager 2. To expose to hazard; risk: gambled their lives in a dangerous rescue mission.
n. 1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
(your not betting or doing a wager)
Ergo, lockboxes are not gambling accroding to recognized linguistic definitions of the word.
What they are is Grab Bags.
The point that people don't need to play is totally valid.
What kills me is that people seem to think it is Cryptic's responsibility to monitor people's unhealthy habits. Cryptic and by extension PWE are COMPANIES. Companies are NOT people. Is McDonald's responsible for the fat guy who can't stop eating their cheeseburgers ?
If someone you know, is actually a gambling addict, WHY is it the responsibilty of a company to help that person ?
The company should continue to do what it can to make money.
Helping the people who are sick, addicted, etc. is the responsibility of that person's friends and/or family.
My challenge to the people raging against the boxes and decrying Cryptic as reprehensibly immoral for all this, is as follows ...
IF indeed this gambling problem is SO terrible, I challenge you to put your money where your mouths are.
Do something that actually HELPS these people instead of raging about it.
Don't expect a company to be morally responsible for people's problems.
If you individually care so much, go volunteer at a gambling addicts hotline.
Volunteer in your community to help these people.
Oh , wait ... that would take time away from you playing your game.
Best to just rage about it on forums, and expect a company to do something that is actually an individual's responsibilty.
Have a Nice Day
The fact you qualified yourself indicates you know this is a form of gambling. People wanting Cryptic to stop is a matter of an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. Historically, write in campaigns have been an effective means of changing a companies business practices. I see forum requests a means of doing just that.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
So recognized literary definitions of words constitute epic fail. I'll be sure and pass your feedback on to the editors of the dictionary so they can account for your opinions ...
OH and since you ignore the rest of the post , I guess you won't be actually doing any volunteering for gambling addict hotlines or doing anything that actually helps those poor gambling addicts ?
I like crackerjacks.But seriously, I either toss them out an airlock, or opened a few once when they were awarding lobi, a console, and gamma duty officers,could care less about a non-faction ship.I can see the appeal for the ferengi, or cardassian character players who want a ship in that faction.
Lockboxes bothered me for awhile, but I just ignore them.If i have some disposible income I might open a few sometime again. IT really has no interest for me, and as long as they sell keys,cryptic makes money, employees get paid,the servers stay powered up, and I can play the game.That's all I care about.No pretentious moral-holier than thou speech, no "Gene Rodenberry's ghost is crying "rant here.
Imagine a casino guaranteeing you, say, a minimum of 4 drinks (= lobi) for every time you used a slot machine; you think what they do would be considered any less gambling because of it?
That's a terrible deal... The equivalent is vouchers that when you collect 800 of you get a spanking new Bugatti.
I hate superhigh end sport cars however.
Btw, your sig has me thinking of Jikan Tonderu Shoujo.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
There are other brands of the same foodstuff, and most of them taste better and sell for the same price or less. They don't have the prize inside, though; and like the lockboxes, a Crackerjack box *ALWAYS* has something, barring a packaging defect. It's brilliant marketing, and nobody complains about it, even though the value of the prizes is miniscule.
I don't buy lockboxes for the chance of a prize; I buy them because I know that over even small sample sizes, I'll average more than 1.4 million EC in value from them, and over any larger sample size, significantly more. If they didn't average more than that, I'd be selling the keys, not opening the boxes.
In other words, I don't buy them for the ships that might drop; I buy them for the ships that I will absolutely guaranteed get from them. You are guaranteed a certain minimum value from a lockbox; feel free to make your economic decisions on their value on that basis. The fact is a tremendous number of people like them, and they're optional for you. You can use ingame resources to get everything in them that's of any substantive difference from other ingame assets.
While the specific prize in a box of Crackerjacks varies, the quantifiable value of each is relatively the same. That cannot be said about the lockboxes, where the value of each potential reward is quantifiably different.
The 'you always get a reward in a lockbox' argument is moot.
The fact you qualified yourself indicates you know this is a form of gambling. People wanting Cryptic to stop is a matter of an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. Historically, write in campaigns have been an effective means of changing a companies business practices. I see forum requests a means of doing just that.
So i am guessing no volunteer hours from you actually assisting gambling addicts either ?
Oh wait, this forum post, write in campaign is going to convince them to stop what you want them to stop ... I forgot ... You are writing posts in the game forum. You are truly a caring and wonderful individual actually doing something to help people. :rolleyes:
And no, I do not consider the lockboxes gambling.
By recognized literary definitions they are grab bags.
Plain and simple.
So i am guessing no volunteer hours from you actually assisting gambling addicts either ?
Oh wait, this forum post, write in campaign is going to convince them to stop what you want them to stop ... I forgot ... You are writing posts in the game forum. You are truly a caring and wonderful individual actually doing something to help people. :rolleyes:
And no, I do not consider the lockboxes gambling.
By recognized literary definitions they are grab bags.
Plain and simple.
I find myself asking that a lot when reading posts from people that are supposedly arguing in favor of lockboxes. It's like this thread can't go a few pages without the discussion going into personal discussions about whether people in this thread are gambling addicts or whether they've ever done anything to help anyone in real life. If he really wants to get in an argument about moral superiority and caring for other people then he and I can gladly discuss the numerous hours I've spent volunteering at my grandad's nursing home over the past two years, but it really has nothing to do with anything going on in this thread.
So i am guessing no volunteer hours from you actually assisting gambling addicts either ?
Oh wait, this forum post, write in campaign is going to convince them to stop what you want them to stop ... I forgot ... You are writing posts in the game forum. You are truly a caring and wonderful individual actually doing something to help people. :rolleyes:
And no, I do not consider the lockboxes gambling.
By recognized literary definitions they are grab bags.
Plain and simple.
Actually they aren't grab bags. A grab bag would be if players put like quality items in lock boxes and exchanged them with each other. The exception would be the "white elaphant" optional grab bags. Have you even done a grab bag before?
You can try and play all the word games you want, fact is this is no different from people who run "internet cafes" which sell overpriced internet time w/$ prizes. The internet time is irrelavant as is most of the TRIBBLE in the lockboxes. It's the chance rewards people want. Based on the way you qualified your last post and went further to continue to bring up a strawman of how people spend their irl time very much indicates in your heart you know this is gambling. You just like playing games too much to admit it.
Btw, way to skip over the ounce of prevention part. There would be zero need to devote serious irl time if the supply was stopped. If Cryptic spent its time making a quality product there wouldn't be a need for gambling gimics to make enough $ to pay their bills and investors. I mentioned the old write ins to explain why people do post their complaints on boards as well as show why it's justifiable. Sorry, you're trying to be too clever to give thought to what people are actually writing.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Btw, your sig has me thinking of Jikan Tonderu Shoujo.
Hehe; not familiar with that. But it's actually the English title of the namesake Japanese anime Toki Wo Kakeru Shoujo (lit. "The young lady to leap time.")
In your last story you were trolling me, now I am trolling. If you are going to lie you have to stick to the story and that's where I said you aren't experienced enough to bluff, you are a poor liar you just need to realize it.
So either stop lying or became better at it. I'd naturally always wish for people to become honest and decent but I get it's hard coming from a life of vanity as you put it.
Second, it's a classic move to imitate what sits well with you, like you'd imitate rolemodels or your parents or siblings.
So in this here case where your desire is to discredit me it's in heavy contrast to the "flattery of the imitation" when you copy me. First the curse it, then they rehearse it.
You are actually getting solid advice here albeit your vanity prevents you from receiving it which is my critique of that particular mental state, why it doesn't work, though nothing wrong with professional pride or honor
Where we can all agree or disagree about lockboxes and their place in this game (or no game for that matter), I think we can all agree that name-calling and personal insults are counter-productive and ultimately damaging to the community.
I'd kindly ask you all baiting each other to knock it off.
You've hit the nail on the head. The Lobi store is the new C-store. The big prize in the lockboxes is now like the tuffly freighter, a nice extra when waht you really want is the Lobi Crystals. Its also a convenient way to make character bound ships and items cost lots, lots more.
I think you're close... But the C-Store hasn't gone away and has seen plenty of releases this year.
Lockboxes are the new subscription fee but the idea is that they're of indeterminate and potentially unlimited value... and Lobi is how this value is secured.
It's really simple, though. The model is basically the same as what it was a year ago. The only difference is that Lockboxes replaced subscription fees. It's a stealth way of increasing sub fees.
The problem is that $15 a month is TOO LOW for a fully featured game; it's what supported a fully featured game 12 years ago and the modern equivalent should be more like $21. But at the same time $15 is prohibitively high for some people whose presence adds value, is the limit for others, and is far less than some would be willing to pay.
It's like with the lockbox ships. Cryptic wants to make $250 or so for everyone they release but the shock of charging that would be too high so they're able to make $250 off of every lockbox ship by making it a low drop chance from a box that costs $1.25.
The whole point is removing the $15 a month, either as a barrier to play or a maximum fee for playing. Lockboxes and Lobi are simply what replace that. The C-Store is what it always was on top of that.
The one loser in all of this is theoretically the lifer or the subber past 1000 days. In theory, a 12 lockbox master key pack would be better compensation than 500 ZEN but this whole system limits Cryptic's liabilities for longterm players by reducing the ongoing value of their sub past the final reward point.
Where we can all agree or disagree about lockboxes and their place in this game (or no game for that matter), I think we can all agree that name-calling and personal insults are counter-productive and ultimately damaging to the community.
I'd kindly ask you all baiting each other to knock it off.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
I think the question of are lockboxes worth it comes down to this: Are you happy paying $0.25 for a lobi crystal? (1 key costs $1.25 and you get 5 per box on average.)
The only way to realistically look at the lockboxes is with this frame of mind. Recognise that you are buying Lobi and understand that anything else you get is a bonus. This is the only way of looking at a situation where the most desirable outcome comes with a negligible percentage.
Personally I'm NOT happy spending $0.25 per Lobi. It makes a simple console that costs 200 lobi crystals come with a $50 price tag. Thats absolutely ridiculous. The latest 3 piece set would cost you $150.
Hell with the lifetime sale up now, the cost of the LIFETIME subscription is the same as the monetary cost of a Temporal Destroyer! Anyone else find that insane?
Think I'd like to get a job working for PWE where $50 is considered a micro-transaction.
I've said before I think it would be more worth it if most Lobi prices were about 40% to half what they are. Then you could reasonably get a ground weapon on a monthly stipend budget, a costume in a month with some grinding or a month and a half... and consoles would be more like $20-$25, which is frankly the main prize with a lot of $25 ships already.
I also hate that while space premium items seem balanced for Mk XII power and ignore PvP mostly (focusing on value for the money, something I see Geko all over), ground weapons from Lobi store stop scaling at Mk X and ARE balanced for PvP (something I see Jeremy/Borticus all over). And it's backwards because nobody DOES ground PvP and space PvP imbalances DO affect lots of people. And in terms of PvE, most people already cream space content as long as they have the strategy down and have frustration in ground content, which cryptic seems averse to letting people pay for real power in.
They should be selling the nigh godmode powers FOR GROUND and show more restraint in space balance, IMHO.
See, though, this is a nuanced complaint. These are the kinds of complaints I have with the game. I'm not a blind Cryptic defender. I have real, legitimate beefs with Lobi prices, effectiveness of Lobi and C-Store items, value for the money, paying for PvE advantage (which I support) while acknowledging PvP impact.
But once lockboxes got a guaranteed, minimum reward, the issue for me became the nature of that reward, not challenging the whole idea of lockboxes all the time. It just seems like a big, easy target.
I thought it was funny eight months ago when people were talking about giving the devs at Comic-Con a present in a locked box and charging them $1.25 for the key.
The signal to noise ratio has gotten higher though, to a point where I feel like a lot of people's response to everything boils down to "Lockbox lockbox lockbox lockbox, Dan Stahl, lockbox Klingons lockbox lockbox Chinese lockbox."
I mean, sheez, if that's how you feel, why are you here?
Considering the odds and monitoring the exchange closely every day, I can say that you are completely wrong. The average value of the lockbox is rather around 250-300k EC per key. It would require more serious calculation but it must be very close. Consoles, doff packs and boosters, have a very low market value. Even the purple doff won't pay for your key. Actually, only the ship will, and the odds to get it are insanely low (0.5%).
These prices gives us a good insight on what people want when they open a box: they want the ship, nothing else, and will sell every other piece of TRIBBLE they get to recover some credits to buy more keys or to save for the ship itself. The only people who could give a damn about the regular doffs packs are the hardcore fleet farmers, and the only ones having some interest in consoles and purple doff packs are good players with the game knowledge to use them. The good guy opening the box couldn't care less about that.
That's why you open the DOff packs rather than sell them.
Granted, the strategy is less effective the more people catch on but what people have been doing is opening them or buying them off the exchange (where they were underpriced) and then converting all the DOffs they get into purple DOffs at the personnel officer. This is why the price of purple DOffs has plummeted, because people realized they could do this.
But it was insanely good money for awhile, a way to make millions of EC per dollar spent on average and even better if you bought up the exchange DOff packs, cracked 'em all open, sold purples, and converted anything else to purples or blues to sell.
Hehe; not familiar with that. But it's actually the English title of the namesake Japanese anime Toki Wo Kakeru Shoujo (lit. "The young lady to leap time.")
Yeah that was the anime I was talking about. "Jikan wo Tonderu Shoujo" is a reference made by another anime to The Girl Who Lept Through Time, and I mixed it up.
Along with the rest of my terrible performances this morning, someone obviously crossed the isolinear connections in my positronic brain.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Comments
Ah, thanks. Although it figures that it's tied in with other potentially important "gameplay announcements."
1st: continues the P2W power creep spiral, ask around PvP the best ships are all P2W and of the those Lotto ships are the best. Fyi, allowing someone to grind in game resourses doesn't absolve the P2W, since someone payed $ at some point.
2nd: added a new P2W currancy and store
3rd: It's gambling, people pay for the chance to get good to great stuff and will take ok to crappy stuff. People paying for good stuff w/a chance of nice to have xtras would be closer to a grab bag (lets be honest grab bags are usually just something fun to do and often the most fun ones are the white elephants).
4th: It was visually annoying to see the boxes dropping everywhere. (This has been corrected for space).
5th: Need or Greed popups were annoying (This has been corrected as well don't really play ground anymore).
6th: Hasn't resulted in more high quality content, PvE nor PvP. In the last year we've had 1 F.E., 1 KDF 1 off mission, 1 short Friday the 13th temporary misssion. I don't consider grinding missions aka STF and Fleet missions as quality content. Don't get me started on the lack of PvP development tracks.
Further, even the F.E. released this year was basically an advertisement for Lockboxes. Imo, there's been striking little quality content released (2 one off missions on of which was temporary) that didn't have a direct revenue stream to back it. This includes Fleets and Doffs. I'd been happy if they let a couple of devs make quarterly to monthly missions of various lengths, and or actually had a project plan in place and making progress for MMO scaled PvP. Coupled w/the lost year of Dev time while it was a sub based game I'm fine w/people griping all they want for as long as they want about lock boxes.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
So it's not gambling if people can choose not to do it? Nobody is forced to play the slots in Vegas and it's still called gambling. EPIC FAIL OF A POST YOU DID
And OP, as long as the boxes are there, they are open to the comments. May be YOU are the one who needs to get over the comments.
Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
There are other brands of the same foodstuff, and most of them taste better and sell for the same price or less. They don't have the prize inside, though; and like the lockboxes, a Crackerjack box *ALWAYS* has something, barring a packaging defect. It's brilliant marketing, and nobody complains about it, even though the value of the prizes is miniscule.
I don't buy lockboxes for the chance of a prize; I buy them because I know that over even small sample sizes, I'll average more than 1.4 million EC in value from them, and over any larger sample size, significantly more. If they didn't average more than that, I'd be selling the keys, not opening the boxes.
In other words, I don't buy them for the ships that might drop; I buy them for the ships that I will absolutely guaranteed get from them. You are guaranteed a certain minimum value from a lockbox; feel free to make your economic decisions on their value on that basis. The fact is a tremendous number of people like them, and they're optional for you. You can use ingame resources to get everything in them that's of any substantive difference from other ingame assets.
Don't you understand, I'm just toying with you? For lolz. You keep coming back with these what you no doubt think are fiendishly clever retorts, yet all you do is look incredibly trollish every time. Just a FYI.
If I ever do get upset with you, I'll let you know, k? In the meantime, yawn.
Taste is completely subjective and therefore has nothing to do with the point you are trying to make.
Considering the odds and monitoring the exchange closely every day, I can say that you are completely wrong. The average value of the lockbox is rather around 250-300k EC per key. It would require more serious calculation but it must be very close. Consoles, doff packs and boosters, have a very low market value. Even the purple doff won't pay for your key. Actually, only the ship will, and the odds to get it are insanely low (0.5%).
These prices gives us a good insight on what people want when they open a box: they want the ship, nothing else, and will sell every other piece of TRIBBLE they get to recover some credits to buy more keys or to save for the ship itself. The only people who could give a damn about the regular doffs packs are the hardcore fleet farmers, and the only ones having some interest in consoles and purple doff packs are good players with the game knowledge to use them. The good guy opening the box couldn't care less about that.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Some definitions for you.
As originally posted in this thread.
grab bag : noun.
1. A container filled with articles, such as party gifts, to be drawn unseen.(all items are unseen just like doff packs.)
gambling :
gamble (gmbl)
v. gambled, gambling, gambles
v.intr.
1. a. To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.
Lockboxes are not uncertain. You are certain to get 4 LOBI plus 1 random item.
b. To play a game of chance for stakes.
2. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.
3. To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: EXAMPLE : You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.
v.tr.
1. To put up as a stake in gambling; wager.No wager
2. To expose to hazard; risk: gambled their lives in a dangerous rescue mission.
n.
1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
(your not betting or doing a wager)
Ergo, lockboxes are not gambling accroding to recognized linguistic definitions of the word.
What they are is Grab Bags.
The point that people don't need to play is totally valid.
What kills me is that people seem to think it is Cryptic's responsibility to monitor people's unhealthy habits. Cryptic and by extension PWE are COMPANIES. Companies are NOT people. Is McDonald's responsible for the fat guy who can't stop eating their cheeseburgers ?
If someone you know, is actually a gambling addict, WHY is it the responsibilty of a company to help that person ?
The company should continue to do what it can to make money.
Helping the people who are sick, addicted, etc. is the responsibility of that person's friends and/or family.
My challenge to the people raging against the boxes and decrying Cryptic as reprehensibly immoral for all this, is as follows ...
IF indeed this gambling problem is SO terrible, I challenge you to put your money where your mouths are.
Do something that actually HELPS these people instead of raging about it.
Don't expect a company to be morally responsible for people's problems.
If you individually care so much, go volunteer at a gambling addicts hotline.
Volunteer in your community to help these people.
Oh , wait ... that would take time away from you playing your game.
Best to just rage about it on forums, and expect a company to do something that is actually an individual's responsibilty.
Have a Nice Day
This has actually has nothing to do with what I said.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to keep accusing meimeitoo of "regretting" his purchase when he's already plainly his opinions on said purchase, and I really don't care. It'd be nice if you'd take your pointless, bordering on harassment, argument to PMs rather than dragging down the rest of the thread with your off topic fascination with his personal life.
EPIC FAIL ON THIS POST YOU DID.
Imagine a casino guaranteeing you, say, a minimum of 4 drinks (= lobi) for every time you used a slot machine; you think what they do would be considered any less gambling because of it?
And that's another example. "I am laughing, I am bored and I am not upset"
First of all they contrast eachother, if you are going with a story you have to stick to it.
Like if you wanted to pretend you found something funny, you'd have to get into character of a person that is entertained and joyful.
Would it fit the profile to defend your ego for 11 pages ?
Then in your story you jump from having a jolly good time to being totally uninterested in 1 line. Unless you are manic you have to stick to the story.
Second, you are repeating the same mistake again, you are defending what is not in question.
You feel you have to directly come out and say "oh I am so laughing over this" because your emotional response is in question - which it wasn't until you brought it up, you felt it had to be defended and thus actually putting in a position where yes now it does.
You are basically only showing me what you would like me to think but you are not experienced enough to bluff or maybe intelligent enough - but like I said it's a good thing, you just need to become aware of strength and weaknesses.
What do I think ?
If people are happy with throwing 5000 $ or a million after a ship and they are happy then nothing else matters, least of all people's perception of you.
But if you aren't solid inside the appearance of being so is all you have left
/edit
ps
Here is another example, the best way to show someone you don't care ? Get involved and post, that will surely teach them !
Are you taking notes yet
meimeitoo was "unhappy" with what he "had to do", but there were "no other way".
In conclusion yes I do think we can summerize he bought a cash ship out of vanity but sort of blame himself for it now, since it was an empty feeling.
The fact you qualified yourself indicates you know this is a form of gambling. People wanting Cryptic to stop is a matter of an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. Historically, write in campaigns have been an effective means of changing a companies business practices. I see forum requests a means of doing just that.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
So recognized literary definitions of words constitute epic fail. I'll be sure and pass your feedback on to the editors of the dictionary so they can account for your opinions ...
OH and since you ignore the rest of the post , I guess you won't be actually doing any volunteering for gambling addict hotlines or doing anything that actually helps those poor gambling addicts ?
Lockboxes bothered me for awhile, but I just ignore them.If i have some disposible income I might open a few sometime again. IT really has no interest for me, and as long as they sell keys,cryptic makes money, employees get paid,the servers stay powered up, and I can play the game.That's all I care about.No pretentious moral-holier than thou speech, no "Gene Rodenberry's ghost is crying "rant here.
...which is why I'm just buying keys off the EC and opening them. I don't expect to win anything, but 400 lobi sounds like a manageable goal.
As long as someone is giving money to Cryptic, I'm not complaining. After turning the lockbox announcements off, my life has gotten A LOT better.
And I don't really see lockboxes that often now that I'm just grinding eSTFs. The one at the end and pretty much that's it.
I still recall the time when killing a HEAVY PLASMA TORPEDO drops a Ferengi box. LOL
That's a terrible deal... The equivalent is vouchers that when you collect 800 of you get a spanking new Bugatti.
I hate superhigh end sport cars however.
Btw, your sig has me thinking of Jikan Tonderu Shoujo.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
While the specific prize in a box of Crackerjacks varies, the quantifiable value of each is relatively the same. That cannot be said about the lockboxes, where the value of each potential reward is quantifiably different.
The 'you always get a reward in a lockbox' argument is moot.
So i am guessing no volunteer hours from you actually assisting gambling addicts either ?
Oh wait, this forum post, write in campaign is going to convince them to stop what you want them to stop ... I forgot ... You are writing posts in the game forum. You are truly a caring and wonderful individual actually doing something to help people. :rolleyes:
And no, I do not consider the lockboxes gambling.
By recognized literary definitions they are grab bags.
Plain and simple.
What does any of that have to do with anything?
I find myself asking that a lot when reading posts from people that are supposedly arguing in favor of lockboxes. It's like this thread can't go a few pages without the discussion going into personal discussions about whether people in this thread are gambling addicts or whether they've ever done anything to help anyone in real life. If he really wants to get in an argument about moral superiority and caring for other people then he and I can gladly discuss the numerous hours I've spent volunteering at my grandad's nursing home over the past two years, but it really has nothing to do with anything going on in this thread.
Actually they aren't grab bags. A grab bag would be if players put like quality items in lock boxes and exchanged them with each other. The exception would be the "white elaphant" optional grab bags. Have you even done a grab bag before?
You can try and play all the word games you want, fact is this is no different from people who run "internet cafes" which sell overpriced internet time w/$ prizes. The internet time is irrelavant as is most of the TRIBBLE in the lockboxes. It's the chance rewards people want. Based on the way you qualified your last post and went further to continue to bring up a strawman of how people spend their irl time very much indicates in your heart you know this is gambling. You just like playing games too much to admit it.
Btw, way to skip over the ounce of prevention part. There would be zero need to devote serious irl time if the supply was stopped. If Cryptic spent its time making a quality product there wouldn't be a need for gambling gimics to make enough $ to pay their bills and investors. I mentioned the old write ins to explain why people do post their complaints on boards as well as show why it's justifiable. Sorry, you're trying to be too clever to give thought to what people are actually writing.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Hehe; not familiar with that.
You aren't learning. 2 things here:
In your last story you were trolling me, now I am trolling. If you are going to lie you have to stick to the story and that's where I said you aren't experienced enough to bluff, you are a poor liar you just need to realize it.
So either stop lying or became better at it. I'd naturally always wish for people to become honest and decent but I get it's hard coming from a life of vanity as you put it.
Second, it's a classic move to imitate what sits well with you, like you'd imitate rolemodels or your parents or siblings.
So in this here case where your desire is to discredit me it's in heavy contrast to the "flattery of the imitation" when you copy me. First the curse it, then they rehearse it.
You are actually getting solid advice here albeit your vanity prevents you from receiving it which is my critique of that particular mental state, why it doesn't work, though nothing wrong with professional pride or honor
I'd kindly ask you all baiting each other to knock it off.
I think you're close... But the C-Store hasn't gone away and has seen plenty of releases this year.
Lockboxes are the new subscription fee but the idea is that they're of indeterminate and potentially unlimited value... and Lobi is how this value is secured.
It's really simple, though. The model is basically the same as what it was a year ago. The only difference is that Lockboxes replaced subscription fees. It's a stealth way of increasing sub fees.
The problem is that $15 a month is TOO LOW for a fully featured game; it's what supported a fully featured game 12 years ago and the modern equivalent should be more like $21. But at the same time $15 is prohibitively high for some people whose presence adds value, is the limit for others, and is far less than some would be willing to pay.
It's like with the lockbox ships. Cryptic wants to make $250 or so for everyone they release but the shock of charging that would be too high so they're able to make $250 off of every lockbox ship by making it a low drop chance from a box that costs $1.25.
The whole point is removing the $15 a month, either as a barrier to play or a maximum fee for playing. Lockboxes and Lobi are simply what replace that. The C-Store is what it always was on top of that.
The one loser in all of this is theoretically the lifer or the subber past 1000 days. In theory, a 12 lockbox master key pack would be better compensation than 500 ZEN but this whole system limits Cryptic's liabilities for longterm players by reducing the ongoing value of their sub past the final reward point.
^ This.aaa
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
I've said before I think it would be more worth it if most Lobi prices were about 40% to half what they are. Then you could reasonably get a ground weapon on a monthly stipend budget, a costume in a month with some grinding or a month and a half... and consoles would be more like $20-$25, which is frankly the main prize with a lot of $25 ships already.
I also hate that while space premium items seem balanced for Mk XII power and ignore PvP mostly (focusing on value for the money, something I see Geko all over), ground weapons from Lobi store stop scaling at Mk X and ARE balanced for PvP (something I see Jeremy/Borticus all over). And it's backwards because nobody DOES ground PvP and space PvP imbalances DO affect lots of people. And in terms of PvE, most people already cream space content as long as they have the strategy down and have frustration in ground content, which cryptic seems averse to letting people pay for real power in.
They should be selling the nigh godmode powers FOR GROUND and show more restraint in space balance, IMHO.
See, though, this is a nuanced complaint. These are the kinds of complaints I have with the game. I'm not a blind Cryptic defender. I have real, legitimate beefs with Lobi prices, effectiveness of Lobi and C-Store items, value for the money, paying for PvE advantage (which I support) while acknowledging PvP impact.
But once lockboxes got a guaranteed, minimum reward, the issue for me became the nature of that reward, not challenging the whole idea of lockboxes all the time. It just seems like a big, easy target.
I thought it was funny eight months ago when people were talking about giving the devs at Comic-Con a present in a locked box and charging them $1.25 for the key.
The signal to noise ratio has gotten higher though, to a point where I feel like a lot of people's response to everything boils down to "Lockbox lockbox lockbox lockbox, Dan Stahl, lockbox Klingons lockbox lockbox Chinese lockbox."
I mean, sheez, if that's how you feel, why are you here?
That's why you open the DOff packs rather than sell them.
Granted, the strategy is less effective the more people catch on but what people have been doing is opening them or buying them off the exchange (where they were underpriced) and then converting all the DOffs they get into purple DOffs at the personnel officer. This is why the price of purple DOffs has plummeted, because people realized they could do this.
But it was insanely good money for awhile, a way to make millions of EC per dollar spent on average and even better if you bought up the exchange DOff packs, cracked 'em all open, sold purples, and converted anything else to purples or blues to sell.
Yeah that was the anime I was talking about. "Jikan wo Tonderu Shoujo" is a reference made by another anime to The Girl Who Lept Through Time, and I mixed it up.
Along with the rest of my terrible performances this morning, someone obviously crossed the isolinear connections in my positronic brain.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!