You accept the practice and expect others to accept it. It might not be morals, but it's an imposition. It's also bad form.
Allow me to demonstrate: If you don't like the anti-lockbox conversation, ignore it.
I didn't say I don't like a conversation. I'm just saying that my position is right. (J/K- Kinda...)
You can disagree with the practice all you want, but if you call for it to be banished, it's you who are imposing morality. My disagreement with you is not a banishment or intolerance. I just disagree.
The only people imposing morality are those advocating changes from a status-quo system that offers no imposition as it is. My distaste for that is not an imposition.
I love how the purps keep defending this and the most recent thing tooth n nail.
Yes, because it's not at all possible that people who care enough about this game to volunteer to help keep the forums clean happen to like the way the game does things...
:rolleyes:
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the [URL="http://sto-
forum.perfectworld.com/announcement.php?&a=51"]Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules
and Policies [/URL]. ~Bluegeek
The tone you use is extremely unfriendly. It's also ironic.
I'm sorry, should I offer snacks and fruit juice before disagreeing with you ?
Just because we don't agree about something on an internet forum doesn't mean I wouldn't buy you a beer, and laugh while discussing STO at a local pub, because at the end of the day despite disagreeing about some aspects of it, we are playing and hopefully enjoying the same game.
I am truly sorry that you are so offended by my "unfriendly" manner.
Let me try a friendlier approach.
Lockboxes are here to stay.
It is obvious Cryptic/PWE are making money from them, despite the rage on the forums. Some people actually really like them. Some people really don't.
That's okay.
All I ask, is that people who believe that this is immoral/bad/whatever, do me the favor of (1) Expressing their coherent argument once. In a well thought out analysis, stating their opinions, concerns, and if possible quoting facts and figures, and stop snarkily posting in threads that have nothing to do with lockboxes about how terrible they are and how the people who support them are bad people. That really, doesn't seem too much to ask.
EDIT - To add, you're using the same 'if you don't like it, don't do it' argument. To which I say this: If you don't like the conversation, don't partake of it.
And yes, I am using that "argument", because it actually makes sense.
Don't like something, don't participate, but thank you for telling me that I am no longer welcome in your conversation.
See, I participate in these conversations, because I actually do enjoy seeing when there are well constructed arguments on both sides, and enjoy the mostly intelligent discourse between players. If I no longer was finding such conversations enjoyable, I would stop participating.
That's how that works.
I didn't say I don't like a conversation. I'm just saying that my position is right. (J/K- Kinda...)
You can disagree with the practice all you want, but if you call for it to be banished, it's you who are imposing morality. My disagreement with you is not a banishment or intolerance. I just disagree.
The only people imposing morality are those advocating changes from a status-quo system that offers no imposition as it is. My distaste for that is not an imposition.
I know I'm imposing morality. :P I just question whether you're aware of your own imposition (in this case telling people who disagree, to accept the system).
We can agree that there are things that are morally good and things that are morally bad, yes?
Here, we disagree on the morality of the lockbox system; you don't see it as a moral issue, but I do--and cite the exploitation of human nature as the crux of my complaint (pointing to the winners announcements, emotional attachment to the IP, and the lack of clear statistics which gives the false impression of high reward). For those reasons, I find the lockboxes reprehensible and would prefer Cryptic and PWE find other avenues to turn a profit--like the C-Store.
I have no problem with micro-transactions, F2P or freemium, nor do I have a problem with businesses being about profit. Where I draw a line is how these things are handled and whether or not they present a clear and fair playing field.
Lockboxes are here to stay.
It is obvious Cryptic/PWE are making money from them, despite the rage on the forums. Some people actually really like them. Some people really don't.
That's okay.
All I ask, is that people who believe that this is immoral/bad/whatever, do me the favor of (1) Expressing their coherent argument once. In a well thought out analysis, stating their opinions, concerns, and if possible quoting facts and figures, and stop snarkily posting in threads that have nothing to do with lockboxes about how terrible they are and how the people who support them are bad people. That really, doesn't seem too much to ask.
All I ask, is that people who believe that this is immoral/bad/whatever, do me the favor of (1) Expressing their coherent argument once. In a well thought out analysis, stating their opinions, concerns, and if possible quoting facts and figures, and stop snarkily posting in threads that have nothing to do with lockboxes about how terrible they are and how the people who support them are bad people. That really, doesn't seem too much to ask.
but is that not what your are doing?
this hole thread is about ppl complaining about the complainer's
This thread has now most definitely run its course, and isn't providing any constructive discussion/feedback, so due to this as well as the high number of flaming/trolling posts and/or reported posts in this thread; I'm closing this thread down.
For future reference please remember that it helps a great deal when posts which violate the PWE Community Rules and Policies are not responded to and are reported via submitting a Forums and Website Ticket (click here).
If you think any of your posts within a thread have violated the PWE Community Rules and Policies, please edit your posts before a moderator takes action.
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Thanks,
syberghost
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Comments
I didn't say I don't like a conversation. I'm just saying that my position is right.
You can disagree with the practice all you want, but if you call for it to be banished, it's you who are imposing morality. My disagreement with you is not a banishment or intolerance. I just disagree.
The only people imposing morality are those advocating changes from a status-quo system that offers no imposition as it is. My distaste for that is not an imposition.
Yes, because it's not at all possible that people who care enough about this game to volunteer to help keep the forums clean happen to like the way the game does things...
:rolleyes:
forum.perfectworld.com/announcement.php?&a=51"]Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules
and Policies [/URL]. ~Bluegeek
I'm sorry, should I offer snacks and fruit juice before disagreeing with you ?
Just because we don't agree about something on an internet forum doesn't mean I wouldn't buy you a beer, and laugh while discussing STO at a local pub, because at the end of the day despite disagreeing about some aspects of it, we are playing and hopefully enjoying the same game.
I am truly sorry that you are so offended by my "unfriendly" manner.
Let me try a friendlier approach.
Lockboxes are here to stay.
It is obvious Cryptic/PWE are making money from them, despite the rage on the forums. Some people actually really like them. Some people really don't.
That's okay.
All I ask, is that people who believe that this is immoral/bad/whatever, do me the favor of (1) Expressing their coherent argument once. In a well thought out analysis, stating their opinions, concerns, and if possible quoting facts and figures, and stop snarkily posting in threads that have nothing to do with lockboxes about how terrible they are and how the people who support them are bad people. That really, doesn't seem too much to ask.
And yes, I am using that "argument", because it actually makes sense.
Don't like something, don't participate, but thank you for telling me that I am no longer welcome in your conversation.
See, I participate in these conversations, because I actually do enjoy seeing when there are well constructed arguments on both sides, and enjoy the mostly intelligent discourse between players. If I no longer was finding such conversations enjoyable, I would stop participating.
That's how that works.
I know I'm imposing morality. :P I just question whether you're aware of your own imposition (in this case telling people who disagree, to accept the system).
We can agree that there are things that are morally good and things that are morally bad, yes?
Here, we disagree on the morality of the lockbox system; you don't see it as a moral issue, but I do--and cite the exploitation of human nature as the crux of my complaint (pointing to the winners announcements, emotional attachment to the IP, and the lack of clear statistics which gives the false impression of high reward). For those reasons, I find the lockboxes reprehensible and would prefer Cryptic and PWE find other avenues to turn a profit--like the C-Store.
I have no problem with micro-transactions, F2P or freemium, nor do I have a problem with businesses being about profit. Where I draw a line is how these things are handled and whether or not they present a clear and fair playing field.
I fail to see how I'm not doing that.
but is that not what your are doing?
this hole thread is about ppl complaining about the complainer's
system Lord Baal is dead
This thread has now most definitely run its course, and isn't providing any constructive discussion/feedback, so due to this as well as the high number of flaming/trolling posts and/or reported posts in this thread; I'm closing this thread down.
Thanks,
syberghost