or we could test stuff for a week before we automatically assume its for the worse?
cryptic isnt the greatest company in the world but most thiser decisions are from PWE. publishers have alot of power in that field.
but yes please keep attacking me this is slightly fun.
-Spells
Oh, do you feel like your being attacked?
I thought I was just responding to your posts is all. I didn't release you were so sensitive.
From now on, I won't respond to your posts if that will make you feel better:)
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
I agree forums are alot of unhappy customers but may I ask you guys this?
are you still paying them cause thier still getting alot of money.
this is my point not everyone will be happy some of the most played games in the world have a 65%+ rate of hate for the game but they still play, still pay.
-Spells
cant say ive paid them in over 2 years if i want a lifer still would not pay them for there gold member not the best model ive seen
back under Atari i got 2 featured series in the frist year how many under PWE?
I agree forums are alot of unhappy customers but may I ask you guys this?
are you still paying them cause thier still getting alot of money.
this is my point not everyone will be happy some of the most played games in the world have a 65%+ rate of hate for the game but they still play, still pay.
-Spells
The problem is (for us) that the F2P model is a casual model - you're not paying a sub so it doesn't matter if you give the game a break for a few months and come back.
This business model relies on lots of players spending (relatively) small amounts of money. Because this is Star Trek, PWE also has the added bonus of a select few players that are prepared to spend a BIG amount of money to get the latest cool ship.
Content in this game is used as bait to bring lapsed players back in - there's little or no incentive to continually keep players playing.
Those of us that want to stick around are given half-baked grinds like The Vault (which is an abomination), the Fleet missions and Nukara/Defera (which I suspect were likely under development back in the Atari days).
It's of no small consequence that we haven't had anything like the STFs since the switch to PWE. The need just isn't there to keep people engaged for more that the time it takes for them to blow some cash on lockboxes.
The kind of game I think most of us would like STO to be is the subscription model (not in terms of payment, but in terms of content) - I had no problem paying out for paid expansions to SWG 'cause I got a lot of gameplay out of them (well, Trials of Obi-Wan notwithstanding).
It's a shame that an IP that is all about character and story has ended up in the portfolio of a company that's all about trinkets.
cant say ive paid them in over 2 years if i want a lifer still would not pay them for there gold member not the best model ive seen
back under Atari i got 2 featured series in the frist year how many under PWE?
whats it 1 feature episode that I know of. but yes sad there isnt more of them.
@ solace when saying people are fanboys isnt a relevent post it just shows your targeting me, infact I like hello Kitty, transformers and even the avengers(Ok I agree im a avenger fanboy).
I only about business model I could care less as business interests me since I do alot of it at work.
point is they can do better, will they? were just have to see now wont we.
-Spells
|| Open Door Policy ||
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
The problem is (for us) that the F2P model is a casual model - you're not paying a sub so it doesn't matter if you give the game a break for a few months and come back.
This business model relies on lots of players spending (relatively) small amounts of money. Because this is Star Trek, PWE also has the added bonus of a select few players that are prepared to spend a BIG amount of money to get the latest cool ship.
Content in this game is used as bait to bring lapsed players back in - there's little or no incentive to continually keep players playing.
Those of us that want to stick around are given half-baked grinds like The Vault (which is an abomination), the Fleet missions and Nukara/Defera (which I suspect were likely under development back in the Atari days).
It's of no small consequence that we haven't had anything like the STFs since the switch to PWE. The need just isn't there to keep people engaged for more that the time it takes for them to blow some cash on lockboxes.
The kind of game I think most of us would like STO to be is the subscription model (not in terms of payment, but in terms of content) - I had no problem paying out for paid expansions to SWG 'cause I got a lot of gameplay out of them (well, Trials of Obi-Wan notwithstanding).
It's a shame that an IP that is all about character and story has ended up in the portfolio of a company that's all about trinkets.
yea somedays I wish it just had a month free type of thing and it wasnt ftp, but alot of people try it and like it, I just hope that we get more stfs,redone pvp and doff mobile (not screwed up.
|| Open Door Policy ||
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
whats it 1 feature episode that I know of. but yes sad there isnt more of them.
@ solace when saying people are fanboys isnt a relevent post it just shows your targeting me, infact I like hello Kitty, transformers and even the avengers(Ok I agree im a avenger fanboy).
I only about business model I could care less as business interests me since I do alot of it at work.
point is they can do better, will they? were just have to see now wont we.
-Spells
Ahh, but I submit that it is relevant and by showing someone is a fanboy, it means that their posts need to be looked at in a different way.
I am a STO hater, so guess what, my posts will always be looked at from that point of view.
There are plenty of forum posters who I respect in that they are neither fanboys or haters and their posts usually give a good balanced view of any subject.
Others are either like you or like me. Both don't help but I do enjoy the banter...;)
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
Ahh, but I submit that it is relevant and by showing someone is a fanboy, it means that their posts need to be looked at in a different way.
I am a STO hater, so guess what, my posts will always be looked at from that point of view.
There are plenty of forum posters who I respect in that they are neither fanboys or haters and their posts usually give a good balanced view of any subject.
Others are either like you or like me. Both don't help but I do enjoy the banter...;)
well all i did was show why something wasnt a gamble, and what is, now about content its there but dry. and they can do better only points really made before we got off topic, im going to bed, then waking up for a PVP.
-Spells
|| Open Door Policy ||
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
I sympathise with Cryptic's position - they've been at the brink of going under and had two parent companies, one of which didn't value them as a developer and a second (their current owners) that see their player-base merely as open wallets.
Working within the prior and current constraints can't be easy but PWE only cares about the bottom line. If they can make a profit by developing engaging content then that's what they'd have Cryptic do. They haven't - they've turned a profit by added random loot boxes and graphical fluff to the game.
If we want substance we're going to have to fight for it, constantly - or give up. If the player base is united in what it wants (pretty unlikely but we can always hope) then that sends a clear message to Cryptic and PWE.
If the player base is fragmented like it is now and has been for so long then they'll just continue to do whatever costs them the least amount of money for the maximum return.
Is that what we want?
Unfortunately, I seriously doubt that the playerbase will ever "unite" as you're considering. The vast majority of those who play don't read the forums, the vast majority of those who read don't contribute to the forums, and a large percentage of those who contribute do so, at least initially, because of severe disgruntlement. Frankly I find it pretty depressing to read the forums - unnecessarily so, because it's a sink of negativity, and many of those on the forums seem to spend their time yelling about how the game is super non-canon or how the Federation are butchers in STO or something like that.
Honestly in some ways I can't help but think that if the playerbase, if it is ever to unite, has to figure out what the heck they mean by "content" first and foremost. I have a hard time thinking that a group that splinters between wanting more pew-pew, wanting diplomacy click-through menu missions first and foremost, that wants colony simulation (Sim City?), that want the first 10-20 levels to focus on ground and the last 10-20 levels to remove you from the action entirely to be an admiral, and pulls in many other directions, is going to give the devs a coherent direction to work towards.
Unfortunately, I seriously doubt that the playerbase will ever "unite" as you're considering. The vast majority of those who play don't read the forums, the vast majority of those who read don't contribute to the forums, and a large percentage of those who contribute do so, at least initially, because of severe disgruntlement. Frankly I find it pretty depressing to read the forums - unnecessarily so, because it's a sink of negativity, and many of those on the forums seem to spend their time yelling about how the game is super non-canon or how the Federation are butchers in STO or something like that.
Honestly in some ways I can't help but think that if the playerbase, if it is ever to unite, has to figure out what the heck they mean by "content" first and foremost. I have a hard time thinking that a group that splinters between wanting more pew-pew, wanting diplomacy click-through menu missions first and foremost, that wants colony simulation (Sim City?), that want the first 10-20 levels to focus on ground and the last 10-20 levels to remove you from the action entirely to be an admiral, and pulls in many other directions, is going to give the devs a coherent direction to work towards.
Yep - for better or worse I agree with everything you said there...
Now that they changed them so they don't drop in need or greed and as often I can deal with them now. They were just too in your face and filled with TRIBBLE before.
1. Certain people need to learn and understand what gambling is, how it works, and how a player of that gambling system is supposed to treat it. If you spent some money on opening boxes and got TRIBBLE, and are now complaining about boxes, then you fall under this category. Mature gamblers accept the loss that can come with gambling.
You either get more than what you paid in, or you get less, and in EVERY form of gambling, you'll always get less more than you get more and thats the point of gambling. You're accepting a loss for the chance at completely making that loss irrelevant, ie, hitting that jackpot.
I've spent may be $200 on keys (and twice that in dilithium), and I've more than got my moneys worth. 7 Dkoras, 2 Tholians, and 3 Temporal ships, not including the Lobi ships. There have been times where I used $100 in keys and got nothing of that much importance, and times where I used less than $40 worth and got 4 ships in a row. I was either the 4th or 5th person to get a Wells less than a minute after they came out.
You could say my luck makes me oblivious to whatever problem you percieve, but fact of the matter is I not only didn't but wouldn't have started complaining just because I dropped $100 and got nothing.
2. People will always complain about MMO's as if they're supposed to be perfect. These people always spout unrealistic expectations and get completely immersed in their made up sense of entitlement. No game is perfect and complaining because, apparently, STO isn't a 1 for 1 interactive recreation of the Star Trek universe or because PVP doesn't adhere to some kind of arbitrary standard or because the Dev's aren't adding X feature that you got all hot and bothered over or whatever is pointless and does nothing but drive development towards something that isn't always going to be ideal.
Projects get put off or slowed because because X features aren't adhering to the arbitrary standards of what tends to be a very small group of players.
3. Forums =/= Player base. There are plenty of people who love this game, myself included, just as it is.
1. Certain people need to learn and understand what gambling is, how it works, and how a player of that gambling system is supposed to treat it. If you spent some money on opening boxes and got TRIBBLE, and are now complaining about boxes, then you fall under this category. Mature gamblers accept the loss that can come with gambling.
You either get more than what you paid in, or you get less, and in EVERY form of gambling, you'll always get less more than you get more and thats the point of gambling. You're accepting a loss for the chance at completely making that loss irrelevant, ie, hitting that jackpot.
I've spent may be $200 on keys (and twice that in dilithium), and I've more than got my moneys worth. 7 Dkoras, 2 Tholians, and 3 Temporal ships, not including the Lobi ships. There have been times where I used $100 in keys and got nothing of that much importance, and times where I used less than $40 worth and got 4 ships in a row. I was either the 4th or 5th person to get a Wells less than a minute after they came out.
You could say my luck makes me oblivious to whatever problem you percieve, but fact of the matter is I not only didn't but wouldn't have started complaining just because I dropped $100 and got nothing.
2. People will always complain about MMO's as if they're supposed to be perfect. These people always spout unrealistic expectations and get completely immersed in their made up sense of entitlement. No game is perfect and complaining because, apparently, STO isn't a 1 for 1 interactive recreation of the Star Trek universe or because PVP doesn't adhere to some kind of arbitrary standard or because the Dev's aren't adding X feature that you got all hot and bothered over or whatever is pointless and does nothing but drive development towards something that isn't always going to be ideal.
Projects get put off or slowed because because X features aren't adhering to the arbitrary standards of what tends to be a very small group of players.
3. Forums =/= Player base. There are plenty of people who love this game, myself included, just as it is.
Nice read good post
|| Open Door Policy ||
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
I've spent may be $200 on keys (and twice that in dilithium), and I've more than got my moneys worth. 7 Dkoras, 2 Tholians, and 3 Temporal ships, not including the Lobi ships. There have been times where I used $100 in keys and got nothing of that much importance, and times where I used less than $40 worth and got 4 ships in a row. I was either the 4th or 5th person to get a Wells less than a minute after they came out.
You could say my luck makes me oblivious to whatever problem you percieve, but fact of the matter is I not only didn't but wouldn't have started complaining just because I dropped $100 and got nothing.
I wonder how you'd have felt if you'd dropped $200 and gotten nothing of any value? No D'kora, no Tholian, no Temporal Ships?
People have done this and more - by your own admission, you feel you got value from these boxes. Percentages say that you're vastly in the minority.
I'm a big fan of F2P but loto-boxes and their ilk are pretty much the only area of F2P where I agree that they're there to exploit completionists who aren't able to control their online spending. I'm a refuge from CoH and over there I gladly handed over money for new powersets and costumes, but I will never spend money for a random chance at getting an item I want. There is no reason for using that sort system over just selling the items outright other than relying on the addictive properties of gambling to pull in more money.
As far as F2P offerings go, I feel STO's model is fantastic. All of the game's content and features are offered for free to everyone (LOTRO is terrible in this regard, and as much as I loved CoH even they reserved a portion of the content for subscribers only) and free players don't have their characters arbitrarily crippled (traits in LOTRO. Being unable to equip good items in EQ1 and 2). For how much I've seen people here complain about "greed" since I recently started playing, I think most of them have to be pretty oblivious to how much of the game is being generously given away. Other than respecs, pretty much the only reason to spend money on the game as a new player is for cool looking costumes or high end ships, and all of those are one time purchases. Even if a new "pay to win" ship comes out (which is another meaningless term that people throw out way too often) every few months, that's still less money spent overall than a subscription, and you don't lose access to everything if you stop paying.
Loto-boxes are pretty much the only area that I strongly disagree with. I think a lot of people who complain about them are just people who are looking for any excuse at all to get upset over the mere existence of the cash shop, but even broken clocks are right every now and then.
I think a lot of people who complain about them are just people who are looking for any excuse at all to get upset over the mere existence of the cash shop, but even broken clocks are right every now and then.
1. Certain people need to learn and understand what gambling is, how it works, and how a player of that gambling system is supposed to treat it. If you spent some money on opening boxes and got TRIBBLE, and are now complaining about boxes, then you fall under this category. Mature gamblers accept the loss that can come with gambling.
And therein lies the flaw of your reasoning: people's ability, or lack thereof, to deal with shooting craps, as it were, does not, in any way whatsoever, make lockboxes less of a gamble. Or more of a gamble, for that matter: it's simply irrelevant.
A lockbox, as I outlined before, basically consists of 2 components: a non-gamble part, for which you receive a minimal guaranteed payout, and a gamble part, in which the price to win is purely a matter of chance (currently estimated at ca. 0.02%), and thus very much a lottery, in every sense of the word.
As far as F2P offerings go, I feel STO's model is fantastic. All of the game's content and features are offered for free to everyone (LOTRO is terrible in this regard, and as much as I loved CoH even they reserved a portion of the content for subscribers only) and free players don't have their characters arbitrarily crippled (traits in LOTRO. Being unable to equip good items in EQ1 and 2). For how much I've seen people here complain about "greed" since I recently started playing, I .
but yet lotro has had 2 expansions since going F2P i have to say there model doing better then this one
I wonder how you'd have felt if you'd dropped $200 and gotten nothing of any value? No D'kora, no Tholian, no Temporal Ships?
People have done this and more - by your own admission, you feel you got value from these boxes. Percentages say that you're vastly in the minority.
If you aren't willing to accept the inherent loss in gambling then don't gamble. As I said, don't complain because you (generic you) don't understand gambling and went on ahead doing it anyway. I accept the loss in gambling, thus, I allow myself to do it.
It's not hard to tell by the content of the posts when someone is just looking for a reason to complain about the cash shop's existence at all. Heck, there's even a signature I noticed floating around these forums that throws in a nice double whammy of cash shop QQ and racism.
Also, generalizations aren't always wrong. Ignoring an entire post because of a single fallacy at the end and dismissing the entire post as wrong is itself a fallacy.
If you aren't willing to accept the inherent loss in gambling then don't gamble. As I said, don't complain because you (generic you) don't understand gambling and went on ahead doing it anyway. I accept the loss in gambling, thus, I allow myself to do it.
It's easy to justify the loss when it's a small amount of money - just as it's easy to justify the perceived 'gain' when it's a large amount of money.
What I posit to you is your sage advice about gambling is from the perspective of someone that 'beat' the system and I'm simply wondering if the exact same words of wisdom would be forthcoming from you if you'd gambled all that money and Dilithium and gotten little or nothing of any worth.
but yet lotro has had 2 expansions since going F2P i have to say there model doing better then this one
Maybe LOTRO is doing "better" than STO. I wouldn't be surprised either way, but I'm not too sure what that has to do with my point which was that STO's F2P model is much more favorable for the player than one like LOTRO's.
A lockbox, as I outlined before, basically consists of 2 components: a non-gamble part, for which you receive a minimal guaranteed payout, and a gamble part, in which the price to win is purely a matter of chance (currently estimated at ca. 0.02%), and thus very much a lottery, in every sense of the word.
So what's your point? If you're saying that gambling is a bad thing, then thats your opinion. But it has no relevance here. Most other forms of gambling have no guaranteed payouts, and as far as the current lockbox goes, you actually get a better reward for relying on the guaranteed payout rather than the gamble. (IE, Mobius is a better ship in general than the Wells)
Hmm..?
I've spent approximately $500 on real world lotto in my state and won exactly $50 total. I have not complained once about it.
And I posit to you that if I had said nothing about what I've actually spent and won that you would most likely have accepted what I said about accepting the inherent loss of gambling and been on your way.
Its not wise nor fair to use a man's experiences against him when his words are still true regardless.
If you aren't willing to accept the inherent loss in gambling then don't gamble. As I said, don't complain because you (generic you) don't understand gambling and went on ahead doing it anyway. I accept the loss in gambling, thus, I allow myself to do it.
There's a reason they flash winners' names across your screen (until you disable that 'feature') and it has to do with smart people knowing that not-so-smart people are extremely susceptible to things like lotteries and gambling.
The 'you don't have to do it' argument is garbage; they're doing everything they possible can to entice you to get over the 'you don't have to do it' voice in your head.
That's what advertising is all about. It's how casinos exist at all. It's why people still play the lottery despite knowing it's just a tax on not-so-smart people.
Comments
Oh, do you feel like your being attacked?
I thought I was just responding to your posts is all. I didn't release you were so sensitive.
From now on, I won't respond to your posts if that will make you feel better:)
cant say ive paid them in over 2 years if i want a lifer still would not pay them for there gold member not the best model ive seen
back under Atari i got 2 featured series in the frist year how many under PWE?
system Lord Baal is dead
i support this add
system Lord Baal is dead
The problem is (for us) that the F2P model is a casual model - you're not paying a sub so it doesn't matter if you give the game a break for a few months and come back.
This business model relies on lots of players spending (relatively) small amounts of money. Because this is Star Trek, PWE also has the added bonus of a select few players that are prepared to spend a BIG amount of money to get the latest cool ship.
Content in this game is used as bait to bring lapsed players back in - there's little or no incentive to continually keep players playing.
Those of us that want to stick around are given half-baked grinds like The Vault (which is an abomination), the Fleet missions and Nukara/Defera (which I suspect were likely under development back in the Atari days).
It's of no small consequence that we haven't had anything like the STFs since the switch to PWE. The need just isn't there to keep people engaged for more that the time it takes for them to blow some cash on lockboxes.
The kind of game I think most of us would like STO to be is the subscription model (not in terms of payment, but in terms of content) - I had no problem paying out for paid expansions to SWG 'cause I got a lot of gameplay out of them (well, Trials of Obi-Wan notwithstanding).
It's a shame that an IP that is all about character and story has ended up in the portfolio of a company that's all about trinkets.
whats it 1 feature episode that I know of. but yes sad there isnt more of them.
@ solace when saying people are fanboys isnt a relevent post it just shows your targeting me, infact I like hello Kitty, transformers and even the avengers(Ok I agree im a avenger fanboy).
I only about business model I could care less as business interests me since I do alot of it at work.
point is they can do better, will they? were just have to see now wont we.
-Spells
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
http://sto.perfectworld.com/about/feature-episodes
system Lord Baal is dead
yea somedays I wish it just had a month free type of thing and it wasnt ftp, but alot of people try it and like it, I just hope that we get more stfs,redone pvp and doff mobile (not screwed up.
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
Ahh, but I submit that it is relevant and by showing someone is a fanboy, it means that their posts need to be looked at in a different way.
I am a STO hater, so guess what, my posts will always be looked at from that point of view.
There are plenty of forum posters who I respect in that they are neither fanboys or haters and their posts usually give a good balanced view of any subject.
Others are either like you or like me. Both don't help but I do enjoy the banter...;)
How would you qualify mine?
Honestly, I don't know which I am any more...
-Spells
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
Unfortunately, I seriously doubt that the playerbase will ever "unite" as you're considering. The vast majority of those who play don't read the forums, the vast majority of those who read don't contribute to the forums, and a large percentage of those who contribute do so, at least initially, because of severe disgruntlement. Frankly I find it pretty depressing to read the forums - unnecessarily so, because it's a sink of negativity, and many of those on the forums seem to spend their time yelling about how the game is super non-canon or how the Federation are butchers in STO or something like that.
Honestly in some ways I can't help but think that if the playerbase, if it is ever to unite, has to figure out what the heck they mean by "content" first and foremost. I have a hard time thinking that a group that splinters between wanting more pew-pew, wanting diplomacy click-through menu missions first and foremost, that wants colony simulation (Sim City?), that want the first 10-20 levels to focus on ground and the last 10-20 levels to remove you from the action entirely to be an admiral, and pulls in many other directions, is going to give the devs a coherent direction to work towards.
Yep - for better or worse I agree with everything you said there...
No, all you did was ignore everyone who demonstrated that it *is* a gamble.
also didnt ignor just provided info
-Spells
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
1. Certain people need to learn and understand what gambling is, how it works, and how a player of that gambling system is supposed to treat it. If you spent some money on opening boxes and got TRIBBLE, and are now complaining about boxes, then you fall under this category. Mature gamblers accept the loss that can come with gambling.
You either get more than what you paid in, or you get less, and in EVERY form of gambling, you'll always get less more than you get more and thats the point of gambling. You're accepting a loss for the chance at completely making that loss irrelevant, ie, hitting that jackpot.
I've spent may be $200 on keys (and twice that in dilithium), and I've more than got my moneys worth. 7 Dkoras, 2 Tholians, and 3 Temporal ships, not including the Lobi ships. There have been times where I used $100 in keys and got nothing of that much importance, and times where I used less than $40 worth and got 4 ships in a row. I was either the 4th or 5th person to get a Wells less than a minute after they came out.
You could say my luck makes me oblivious to whatever problem you percieve, but fact of the matter is I not only didn't but wouldn't have started complaining just because I dropped $100 and got nothing.
2. People will always complain about MMO's as if they're supposed to be perfect. These people always spout unrealistic expectations and get completely immersed in their made up sense of entitlement. No game is perfect and complaining because, apparently, STO isn't a 1 for 1 interactive recreation of the Star Trek universe or because PVP doesn't adhere to some kind of arbitrary standard or because the Dev's aren't adding X feature that you got all hot and bothered over or whatever is pointless and does nothing but drive development towards something that isn't always going to be ideal.
Projects get put off or slowed because because X features aren't adhering to the arbitrary standards of what tends to be a very small group of players.
3. Forums =/= Player base. There are plenty of people who love this game, myself included, just as it is.
Nice read good post
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
I wonder how you'd have felt if you'd dropped $200 and gotten nothing of any value? No D'kora, no Tholian, no Temporal Ships?
People have done this and more - by your own admission, you feel you got value from these boxes. Percentages say that you're vastly in the minority.
As far as F2P offerings go, I feel STO's model is fantastic. All of the game's content and features are offered for free to everyone (LOTRO is terrible in this regard, and as much as I loved CoH even they reserved a portion of the content for subscribers only) and free players don't have their characters arbitrarily crippled (traits in LOTRO. Being unable to equip good items in EQ1 and 2). For how much I've seen people here complain about "greed" since I recently started playing, I think most of them have to be pretty oblivious to how much of the game is being generously given away. Other than respecs, pretty much the only reason to spend money on the game as a new player is for cool looking costumes or high end ships, and all of those are one time purchases. Even if a new "pay to win" ship comes out (which is another meaningless term that people throw out way too often) every few months, that's still less money spent overall than a subscription, and you don't lose access to everything if you stop paying.
Loto-boxes are pretty much the only area that I strongly disagree with. I think a lot of people who complain about them are just people who are looking for any excuse at all to get upset over the mere existence of the cash shop, but even broken clocks are right every now and then.
Sweeping generalization FTW!!
And therein lies the flaw of your reasoning: people's ability, or lack thereof, to deal with shooting craps, as it were, does not, in any way whatsoever, make lockboxes less of a gamble. Or more of a gamble, for that matter: it's simply irrelevant.
A lockbox, as I outlined before, basically consists of 2 components: a non-gamble part, for which you receive a minimal guaranteed payout, and a gamble part, in which the price to win is purely a matter of chance (currently estimated at ca. 0.02%), and thus very much a lottery, in every sense of the word.
but yet lotro has had 2 expansions since going F2P i have to say there model doing better then this one
system Lord Baal is dead
If you aren't willing to accept the inherent loss in gambling then don't gamble. As I said, don't complain because you (generic you) don't understand gambling and went on ahead doing it anyway. I accept the loss in gambling, thus, I allow myself to do it.
It's not hard to tell by the content of the posts when someone is just looking for a reason to complain about the cash shop's existence at all. Heck, there's even a signature I noticed floating around these forums that throws in a nice double whammy of cash shop QQ and racism.
Also, generalizations aren't always wrong. Ignoring an entire post because of a single fallacy at the end and dismissing the entire post as wrong is itself a fallacy.
It's easy to justify the loss when it's a small amount of money - just as it's easy to justify the perceived 'gain' when it's a large amount of money.
What I posit to you is your sage advice about gambling is from the perspective of someone that 'beat' the system and I'm simply wondering if the exact same words of wisdom would be forthcoming from you if you'd gambled all that money and Dilithium and gotten little or nothing of any worth.
Hmm..?
may i just say wow lmao
system Lord Baal is dead
Maybe LOTRO is doing "better" than STO. I wouldn't be surprised either way, but I'm not too sure what that has to do with my point which was that STO's F2P model is much more favorable for the player than one like LOTRO's.
edit:
Yeah, it's pretty amazing how ugly people start to get when you mess with their imaginary space ships game.
So what's your point? If you're saying that gambling is a bad thing, then thats your opinion. But it has no relevance here. Most other forms of gambling have no guaranteed payouts, and as far as the current lockbox goes, you actually get a better reward for relying on the guaranteed payout rather than the gamble. (IE, Mobius is a better ship in general than the Wells)
I've spent approximately $500 on real world lotto in my state and won exactly $50 total. I have not complained once about it.
And I posit to you that if I had said nothing about what I've actually spent and won that you would most likely have accepted what I said about accepting the inherent loss of gambling and been on your way.
Its not wise nor fair to use a man's experiences against him when his words are still true regardless.
There's a reason they flash winners' names across your screen (until you disable that 'feature') and it has to do with smart people knowing that not-so-smart people are extremely susceptible to things like lotteries and gambling.
The 'you don't have to do it' argument is garbage; they're doing everything they possible can to entice you to get over the 'you don't have to do it' voice in your head.
That's what advertising is all about. It's how casinos exist at all. It's why people still play the lottery despite knowing it's just a tax on not-so-smart people.