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Cruisers are Seemingly Now a Joke.
hereticknight085
Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
As of you who read what I post know, I am a huge fan of balance and the restoration of the Cruiser from backseat healer to the heart of the fleet. Now we all know that in current STO, escorts rule the roost, cruisers are stuck in healer spots, and science ships are just looked at with the "wtf are they doing here" attitude (first part to get argued no doubt in responses to this thread).
HOWEVER I must point out that cruisers in the hands of Tactical Captains can be rather nasty. But in all honesty we know that they were designed for us Engineering Captains, and unfortunately in comparison to the Tac Cruisers, ours have far less bite, and tbh seem to be far less useful. Rather embarrassing to have the most magnificent ship in the fleet and have it stuck in the back looking pretty and healing.
So in response to this injustice, MANY good and logical ideas have been proposed to give cruisers back their position of honor as the flagships and hearts of Starfleet, and unfortunately ALL of them have been ignored. That hope was rekindled with the release of the Regent, but just as soon dashed when we realized they gave us a piece of eye candy, and not much more. Another cruiser designed for TACTICAL captains with some seemingly attractive add-ons (that I should now mention are buggy as heck and don't even work half the time) and a torp launcher that can shoot sideways. Whippy doo...
So now getting to the point of this thread. I find myself disappointed that threads keep on appearing asking politely (and sometimes even BEGGING) that cruisers be restored to their positions of grace and honor that they hold so graciously in canon, and having these threads seemingly summarily dismissed by the developers. I mean COME ON!!! They gave the aquarius and escort (everything and it's mother refit) a turn rate boost, something NEITHER SHIP NEEDS BUT CRUISERS HAVE BEEN BEGGING FOR. We don't mind flying whales. We don't mind being slow. But to be stuck with an absurdly LOW damage output with an equally disgusting LOW turn rate? Why? Why did you only give us a shield with no sword? Why have you bound our feet instead of letting us run?
So here I stand before you, just goin bleh. They don't seem to listen even when we ask nicely. They scoff at us when we beg. Look at the Galaxy Joke thread. Look at the Better Turn Rate for Fed Ships thread. BOTH threads contain some very good ideas. BOTH threads have ideas that are not only fair and would add (or should I say RESTORE) some semblance of balance to the game, and yet those threads have been there for two whole patches, and all the devs give us is a turn rate bonus to ESCORTS??? THEY DON'T BLOODY NEED IT. ESCORTS ARE SO POWERFUL THAT THEY ALMOST NEGATE THE NEED FOR ANY OTHER CLASS OF SHIP.
Would it kill you guys to at least throw us a bone? Give us SOMETHING? I mean, the Heavy Beam Array suggested by myself and then modified in thread with some balancing ideas by others like yeodred and angrytarg is a good start. Give us a little bite back. The final stats weren't overpowered, and were designed to give the cruisers a little bit of teeth back and not be encumbered by the horrid turn rate. If not that, then the leadership aura again suggested by myself and then modified in thread by players AGAIN like the above two would also make us at least be considered something good to have around instead of just dead weight.
Now I know that the community moderators read these threads. It's their job. But I have heard rumors that the devs do as well. Rumors mind you, I could just be blowing smoke again, but if you guys do read this, please, say something, ANYTHING so all of us cruiser pilots don't just throw in the towel, esp the engineering ones, who want to be able to do their jobs as tank, and actually cause enough distractions and be enough of a threat that escorts CAN do their jobs, instead of PvP and PvE just turning into a mass of escorts duking it out.
HOWEVER I must point out that cruisers in the hands of Tactical Captains can be rather nasty. But in all honesty we know that they were designed for us Engineering Captains, and unfortunately in comparison to the Tac Cruisers, ours have far less bite, and tbh seem to be far less useful. Rather embarrassing to have the most magnificent ship in the fleet and have it stuck in the back looking pretty and healing.
So in response to this injustice, MANY good and logical ideas have been proposed to give cruisers back their position of honor as the flagships and hearts of Starfleet, and unfortunately ALL of them have been ignored. That hope was rekindled with the release of the Regent, but just as soon dashed when we realized they gave us a piece of eye candy, and not much more. Another cruiser designed for TACTICAL captains with some seemingly attractive add-ons (that I should now mention are buggy as heck and don't even work half the time) and a torp launcher that can shoot sideways. Whippy doo...
So now getting to the point of this thread. I find myself disappointed that threads keep on appearing asking politely (and sometimes even BEGGING) that cruisers be restored to their positions of grace and honor that they hold so graciously in canon, and having these threads seemingly summarily dismissed by the developers. I mean COME ON!!! They gave the aquarius and escort (everything and it's mother refit) a turn rate boost, something NEITHER SHIP NEEDS BUT CRUISERS HAVE BEEN BEGGING FOR. We don't mind flying whales. We don't mind being slow. But to be stuck with an absurdly LOW damage output with an equally disgusting LOW turn rate? Why? Why did you only give us a shield with no sword? Why have you bound our feet instead of letting us run?
So here I stand before you, just goin bleh. They don't seem to listen even when we ask nicely. They scoff at us when we beg. Look at the Galaxy Joke thread. Look at the Better Turn Rate for Fed Ships thread. BOTH threads contain some very good ideas. BOTH threads have ideas that are not only fair and would add (or should I say RESTORE) some semblance of balance to the game, and yet those threads have been there for two whole patches, and all the devs give us is a turn rate bonus to ESCORTS??? THEY DON'T BLOODY NEED IT. ESCORTS ARE SO POWERFUL THAT THEY ALMOST NEGATE THE NEED FOR ANY OTHER CLASS OF SHIP.
Would it kill you guys to at least throw us a bone? Give us SOMETHING? I mean, the Heavy Beam Array suggested by myself and then modified in thread with some balancing ideas by others like yeodred and angrytarg is a good start. Give us a little bite back. The final stats weren't overpowered, and were designed to give the cruisers a little bit of teeth back and not be encumbered by the horrid turn rate. If not that, then the leadership aura again suggested by myself and then modified in thread by players AGAIN like the above two would also make us at least be considered something good to have around instead of just dead weight.
Now I know that the community moderators read these threads. It's their job. But I have heard rumors that the devs do as well. Rumors mind you, I could just be blowing smoke again, but if you guys do read this, please, say something, ANYTHING so all of us cruiser pilots don't just throw in the towel, esp the engineering ones, who want to be able to do their jobs as tank, and actually cause enough distractions and be enough of a threat that escorts CAN do their jobs, instead of PvP and PvE just turning into a mass of escorts duking it out.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. 
Post edited by hereticknight085 on
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your post is quite interesting. Ive always thought it quite silly that the cruisers are not the backbone of the fleet with the other ships types playing supporting rolls, but that is another story. anyways, good post!!!
For example...
Escort class keep their current weapon power bonuses, but get a negative shield and aulixury debuff... because they ARE the fragile type of ship, with limited engineering and medical facilities. They do great damage, but can't take a hit even worse now.
Cruiser ships get an innate defensive bonus, no matter what their speed or engine power levels. In addition, possibly getting an innate damage bonus to ONLY beams and torpedoes (what they're best at). Their slow turn rates and inertia are what balance this.
Science ships keep their auxilary focus, but also gain a bonus/debuff depending on your build (a little more weapon power when you're offensively built, and a little more shield power when you're defensively built). In addition, Sensor Analysis not only builds up a damage bonus on their foes, but give them a small defense bonus for each round (chance to be lost when target lock switches). Crowd control and healing is what they're still best at though.
But what do you all think? And remember, it's just a suggestion
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Chances are none of these things will happen but some day in the future those that bare Dual heavy cannons will catch a nerf bat to the nuts. That way no one will be happy.
...Then things will never change and this game will bar any legitimate attempt by future or current companies from making a true STO experience now or in the future due to this bomb.
Yeah... I know that my post will be ignored, even though I did put lots of time, effort and thought into it (despite the fact it seems mostly like raging). But tbh, what else can we do? I am hoping that a dev will read this thread and actually consider all the great ideas that came out in the two other listed threads, and more hoping (and being selfish in the process) that my two ideas will at least appear (even though I know that it's pretty much an impossibility), since I see both of those ideas (for refresher HBA and Flagship Aura Buff) as being good for cruisers and engi pilots in general, since if we have those, our engi cruisers will no longer just be healers and walls. Now we will have swords to go with our shields.
So basically you are saying that because new ships keep on coming out that they will never balance the current ships? As right as you may be, why did you add in the part about stepping back and wrapping my head around the fact that it's a ship based game? I already know that. I see no point in you adding it on since everything in my original post was about the SHIPS. Please read more carefully, even though I understand it's easy to get lost in the wall of text effect I sometimes have with my long posts.
I battled my friend's new lobi store temporal ship today (I forgot the class of ship... the fed one), and what I saw was appalling in terms of balance. I was utterly dominating. I tanked her ship, a photonic fleet, and her two past/future ally ships. My ship, the smallest of them all, held up against them. A dual beam bank overload to the past ship finished up the battle. It was just a joke. I was overwhelmingly superpowered.
Cruisers can sit there, heal, draw aggro, but in the end are just useless for damage. Pitted against a cruiser, my Defiant could probably hold its own against it, and simply follow behind the whale, cannons blazing. It's just a joke, with five tactical consoles, the best turn rate, and a subspace jump my ship is nearly unstoppable. Where are the Deferi and their balance when you need them?
Science ships. Need I say more? Next to useless.
At this point in time, if you want to even be able to win you've gotta be a tactical captain in an escort (which I happen to be). It's just unfair to engineers and poor sciences get thrown the moldiest cookie of all. For the sake of balance... fix this!
Did I mention that in Kerrat today I tanked two or three Fed cruisers in my Defiant at once?
No, I'm saying that they will never balance the ships.
You are paying for a new ship to fly around as your primary character or toon.
I don't see them making you pay for a level xx Engineer to play on the ground... why not?
I am saying that so long as players exist who will pay the monthly, or will pay for the new ships, the system will never change. So long as Cryptic/PWE continue to make money off this game, the system will never change.
You are asking for balance in a game where they purposely make the newest ships more powerful than anything available as a part of the game, aka free to some.
When you ask them to balance them out against their counterparts that means that there is no longer a reason aside from purchasing it as a cosmetic ship skin to purchase those new ships. That means fewer sales, that means less money for Cryptic/PWE so they will never balance it.
I'm saying that you are OK with paying for your toon over and over and over and over and over and over again! What other MMO or even game that is actually taken seriously or is trying to actually make a real name for itself in any kind of market does that?!
No paying a subscription fee is not the same thing. These guys are taking your money on the BASIS OF AN IMBALANCED SHIP DESIGN!
The ships are a Pay to Win system. It is a system that is designed to purposely separate you and your money on the base human want to be better than someone else, or to have something that someone else does not. To WIN!
They will not change the system so long as people continue to pay them money for a purposely designed pay to win system.
Fleet ships. All the dilithium required means the purchase of zen for it. And the fleet ship modules. As I was battling my friend with my Fleet Defiant 'Pay to Win!' screamed through my head. With my ship, I am at a position to see P2W in it's full ugliness. If you want to win... you must pay. And that is exactly what people do, leaving others without the best ships in the dust.
Power creep is an unfortunate reality of a game with STO's model, I can live with some one forking over 20$ in fleet modules and ungodly amounts of dil for a P2W ship that's only got a 10% bonus on two or three attributes. Pilot skill accounts for more than that and the game needs an income.
That doesn't mean other ships/builds need to be as close to worthless as they are now. Your story about your friend brought this to mind Voporak. I had a PVP "capture and hold" match earlier today where 2 experienced cruiser pilots (one Tac in a regent, one sci in a sci ody, we're decent but not elite) working together couldn't drop a Jem'hadar bug. Even when a third cruiser pilot jumped in, after a few minutes, the Bug still wouldn't go down, in the end it took three cruisers and an escort(another bug) with a Tac pilot to drop that one ship. We only won the match because the bug's team mates were obviously new to PVP, that is ridiculous.
BTW, Capture and hold is one of the few things I think a cruiser can still kind of excel at.
I don't get why on earth this game has to be "blanced" with 1on1 encounters in mind, because B'rel pilots want to battle an Galaxy Class in a "fair fight" - THIS WOULDN'T BE A "FAIR FIGHT". A small vessel would need assistance, a cruiser in battle would need escorts and so on. So, when they finally went all the way to P2W county every hope was lost. New ships will always be better so people will buy them, period.
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How do we adress it, is it the fault of P2W or untested mechanics?
I personally think its just misadjusted mechanics. All the fleet ships that give many of us the ability to fly our favs at end game is a true gift. Its the perfect game universe idea for the everymans star trek game. Size is the only factor. Without them lock box ships would be the undeniable king of pvp.
That said, cruisers and sci ships are under powered. With what we saw in DS9 and Voyager, its easy to understand why escorts do all the damage. And so, I personally want all fed cruisers to get an hp boost, and a larger energy boost to all subsystems, include the boost to ones you can buff like inertial dampers.
Many of the best star trek battles with cruisers involved the drama of staying alive long enough for help, lining up the perfect shot, or using some trick. I think the devs did a good job with intent when it comes to how they play, but fell short of how long they could really last.
Sci ships are a different matter, I think they should definitely get a bigger boost to aux power, but im not really sure what else. I feel like in multiplayer they dont use the tractor beam abilities enough, which can put an escort in an extremely bad situation to great effect. Since the maneuvers and actual movement play such a big part in their tanking style, maybe some more area control style abilities are needed. A tholian web style wall that does good damage if you pass through it, but hurts allies too? Maybe they could expand energy draining abilities to target individual subsystems like weapons or shields. Honestly the number of ways they could buff science are gigantic. Maybe il come back to this if I can scrounge up some more.
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At one point had each toon in an escort because thats really the best ship for majority of gameplay.
But, now Im back in Cruisers, and rarely play. Cruisers suck as a whole. The Tactical Bortasqu is the only cruiser that really works IMO. and being a trek fan I WANT to fly cruisers even though I know Id do everything better in an escort.
Im looking for a new game to play at this point. Still enjoy short sessions here and there. But looks like theyre done with content, and just gonna keep pumping out new ships. Power creep really only makes sense if the game had a good PVP component, which it doesn't.
1 vs 1 cruiser vs Escort shouldn't be a balanced battle. A Stalemate.
Escorts should be glass cannons, but theyre far from it. They can tank and do the best damage with the best turn. So why do cruisers even exist at this point?
Only reason I still log in is there arent enough "ship Battle" games around that are any good.
I re downloaded the 2 games I played before this one and giving them another shot. sigh.
:bigbreath:
I think the cruisers are working as intended, from a gameplay perspective. When you see a properly tanked oddy/bortasqu (and now the fleet galaxy retrofit and fleet neg'var should be able too do this too) tank ten players and come out with around 70% hull, you know those ships can do something right. It's a ton of fun going into an STF, and taking all aggro, and KNOWING you and all your friends are going too come out alive.
And it's even better too watch your hull stay above 75% even when you're taking all the damage. And you know all your teammates are watching you and going "Daaaaaaaaaang"
Actually, my oddy has gotten so good at tanking I'm known in my fleet as "The Survivor"
I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!
I now see what you mean, forgive my earlier rudeness. And as much as I hate to do it, I must agree. And it kinda sickens me a little... I have grown rather fond of this Star Trek Based... excuse me, money based game. (for the record I am F2P XD)
I think I can kind of rest my case after this input.
You won't get fisted for it, not even by the original poster with his massive rant. And I thank you for your input. I see what you mean, and I rather enjoy your statement as well. But you're merely proving my point. You remember in my initial post " Why did you only give us a shield with no sword?" Well your statement just proved that. We have our shield. We have our armor. We are ready to go into battle. But many cruiser pilots want our sword as well. Let us deal damage in addition to taking it. I believe I even put in another thread that I expected the highest tier cruisers to be like Apocalypse Tanks from Red Alert 2. We go nowhere fast (which is true), can take a TON of punishment (which is also true), but when we get there, everything, it's mother, cousin twice removed, and it's pet cat all die (noooot quite so true XD). However I would also expect us to be susceptible to swarmers (which ironically cruisers are the best at killing masses of fighters, torps, etc BFAW, the disco ball of death XD). But you are right. They fill their current role wonderfully. It's just that not all of us are satisfied being just a damage sponge.
I love the Star Trek cruisers. They are the things I think of when I think of Star Trek (that is after I think of the single Nicor Class Undine Cruiser PWNING a dozen cubes by it's lonesome, sorry to say, that was just an AWESOME sight). I am not asking that they be overpowered, that they then become the ONLY ship you should use, since that would be boring... but I do ask that they at least be given back SOME of the glory they have rightfully earned (since after all, how many other ships made as much money as the original NCC-1701, or even the Enterprise D?) That's all I ask.
as i see it, there are some cruisers on fed side that are just extremely gimped...other work fine in the role they were intended.
Maybe a turnrate and a inertia boost across the bord would be already enough, so they don't feel so extremely clumsy.
Cruisers are meant as tanks, thats what they are designed for, and i like it that way actually. Right now they feel and play very different from escorts.
Only sci ships are kind of..."hmm, not really a reason to pick one up"
sci ships have a high potential as support ships or even dmg dealers, but the sci powers are so drastically gimped it hurts to look at them. Why it was established that tac captain buffs actually buff sci powers like no others is beyond me, and that should be reverted.
All sci powers from ltdcmdr up, should get an inherent boost. Meaning a gravity well 3, should be a deathtrap for any ship below 25k hull. Right now those commander powers are just too weak to make an significant impact.
I also got 1v1 against P2W ships - Tactical Excelsior (also captain) and never felt that I was underpowered compared to C-Store (so P2W) ship. Some Klinks intervened but had they not I would be able to hold off him and, if I had enough luck - kill him to. Or die - it was even fight. Still: free ship vs P2W one can be a fair fight.
In the end it all comes to the captain skill. I'm not some super-PvPer, I got my TRIBBLE handed to me often enough, but I'm also good enough to win against some good players in ships that are P2W and/or support my team if I have one.
Escorts pack a lot of peak damage, but are susceptible to damage over time. You just need enough patience to outlast them. Don't kow how it will look against Jem'Hadar bug or Fleet escorts - never fought them, but I doubt it will be all that different.
i think they are all scaled to your level in kerrat, or you are to theirs. Or maybe that excelsior was the commander version...hardly a p2w ship.
and yes...en engi in a galaxy that killed off 4 others...they must have been real bad PVP players. You are in for a surprise once you hit max lvl and enter kerrat.
i guess you are above average, just as me when it comes to PVP. And i had the same experiance when i leveled my last toon and entered some PVP matches. 80% of the matches i made all the kills or 13 to 14. And i didn't lose a single FED vs FED...only 2 or 3 arenas against klingons i lost.
I know for a fact that many of those players are not even new to the game...there are just generally very unskilled players out there.
and as you said...it depends on the captain, since there are cruisers out there that can do some impressive damage while tanking anything, but still within the boundrys of a cruiser. Imagine those captains gaining access to even more firepower. would make other ships obsolete.
Doubt it. Play this game since pre-F2P, fought in Ker'rat with Sovereign, free-Odie, Prometheus, Fleet Escort (before it became Patrol Escort) and DSSV in times when death by SCIENCE! was still possible. Only thing that could suprise me are the fleet ships as I still have to fight one (and new Jem bug if it was really upgraded somehow).
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=400461
Cruisers need more firepower? But wait, only eng cruisers, all these tac cruisers don't count. WTF? Does this make any sense at all?
Escorts need a negative shield modifier? They already have one
Cruisers are the backbone of the fleet, escorts are the teeth, science ships are the hands. If you want to do damage then flying as an eng in a cruiser isn't going to happen, it isn't supposed to ever, give up on the idea.
Cruisers are versatile, agro stealing tanks, they provide good SUPPORT level damage, extreme durability and healing skills. They can zone control.
An escort causes damage and takes damage, there is little to no utility. It is a warship, fast, manoeuvrable, meant to kill. Its heals are limited, its ability to control is minimal, they sacrifice ability for damage, its the design.
The reason you complain is the STO content is way too heavily damage based. If we had 3 STFs that were like Starbase Blockade then nobody would be flying escorts, as cruisers are completely op in that mission. Draw agro, support and heal freighters, escorts have to shoot their way out of a healing situation.. most fail.
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Please no more base alert missions, and those are not STF those are boring repetitive missions that i dont even bother doing anymore, and i dont know which escorts are you playing with but i go there in my defiant and is a completly blody NPC scorn.
(Sorry for the caps but i really hate that stupid battle.)
But you're right, a Cruiser vs Escort fight shouldn't be "balanced" for 1 vs 1. It should need at least 3 escorts and a good amount of teamplay to bring down a cruiser. If the game would be balanced like that, it would be the only instance i would accept that cruisers have so little firepower.
(curiously the devs want to have teamplay, but not when it comes to "their" beloved escorts.)
So escorts would be team oriented ships, while Cruisers would become the preferred ship for solo players.
A Cruiser should pose a real thread to a single escort.
Instead the best thing a crusier can do is to "tickle" the escort to death.
This is NOT how big ships in Star trek are fighting!
As others have already stated the only ship class one needs to fly is a escort, because they can do virtually anything other ships can do, just better.
And since we won't get that, i think cruisers should get a lot more firepower.
A much higher energy output, Heavy Beam Arrays, more maneuverability, more tac consoles, additional Tactical BOFF stations, these that are good ideas, when done right.
But the devs aren't interested in it and i heavily doubt they are reading and (most notably) considering anything we are going to suggest here. Just look at the more turnrate to cruisers and the Galaxy Joke thread, no dev has ever answerd and said "sorry we weren't aware this is a problem, we'll do what we can". No, of course not. They don't even pretend to do something about it, they just ignore everyone who has a different opinion.
They aren't interested in creating a game that is balanced in the first place.
And in order to do that, they have to create imbalances so people will buy the next better ship in the Z- store. So there will always be a imbalance in the game.
This wouldn't be a big problem if the devs would keep that imbalance to smaller degree.
In my opinion this is just a part of the problem. The real problem is that the devs have a totally wrong understanding of Star Trek ships and how they work and how they are related to each other, when it comes to their combat power. I have explained this numerous times and other people too, just look at the Galaxy Joke or cruiser turnrate thread, because i am tired to explain the same things over and over again.
In my understanding the devs don't have any sense for Star Trek at all, they want small ships zipping around doing dogfights and attacking big huge and unmaneuverable ships that don't really pose a threat for them, people wearing Heavy armor with grenades attached to it, people carrying huge miniguns, Mohawks, and so on. They really should have created their own Sci Fi universe instead of TRIBBLE the Star Trek universe.
The devs have choosen their favourite ship class, it is almost miserable. Even the Character selection screen has a Defiant bridge in the background. :rolleyes:
Yeah, ignorance, i can see that....
Escorts have no utility... wait a moment what utility are you talking about?
This game is all about damage, there are NO missions about colonization, or other typical Star trek missions we saw in the shows. Escorts rule this game if you fly one if you don't see that, i would suggest, that you should grab a Galaxy -R and do the same things you do with your escort for a couple of weeks.
In other words, Cryptic has an interesting model for game design and it?s seen among other games they started. If Cruisers are ?tanks? then they are intentionally designed for low(er) damage output than ?blasters? ? the Escorts. Science is a support role ? ?controllers?. None of these should be able to do it all by themselves, but be functional part of a unit. That?s one goal of MMOs (I think), to bring players together to share an experience through teamwork. As a Cruiser-player, if I?m going into a situation I can?t handle solo as easily as I want or need, then I better recruit some help.
BUT, for the soloer, each type should be able to play the game with varying degrees of challenges relative to their strengths and weaknesses ? in PvE. So, if a Cruiser was designed with lower damage output, then it makes sense they fight the battle longer ? but they can still fight the fight. Same for all the other ships; each must be played differently ? and that?s the challenge I see in STO.
Balance suggests making each equal to another and that is a desire of the player who wants to use the ship they prefer regardless of their strengths and weaknesses. If that were the case then there would not be a ?tank? needed because it wouldn?t matter ? they are all balanced (equal?) to each other. I seriously doubt the devs would balance the ships because it would change the model of gameplay.
SO I suggest that any vessel can do what the player wants it to do, but it will depend on how the ship is made (not inherent construction) by the player, the Captain/BOfs/DOff skills and abilities in-game and the players skills for the game.
Cruisers captained by engineers, leveled for threat and surviving are unbelievable ships. Cruisers have the abilty to put constant pressure on a traget while staying alive.
And dont say escorts can tank. They cant. Being geared enough to take out a cube isnt tanking. And there is a whole lotta flyin away to do that. A cruiser geared to its strength can easily tank a tac cube. My bro's oddy tanks the scimitar in khittomer like a boss.
Sci vessels are support. Gear for it. Every mmo has it. I wanna see sci's healing and shutting down the tragets systems.
The imbalance in the game is when everyone tries to be the dd. no mmo exists like this.
If you an eng and in a cruiser be the tank. Be the guy that gets the cubes attention so the escorts can keep up pressure without being blown to bits.
If your a sci in a sci vessel. Heal the tank. Debuff the target. Make the party stronger.
PvP is different but every cruiser needs an escort buddy. And every escort needs a cruiser buddy.
I'm afraid I'll have to respectfully disagree with you while not as tanky as cruisers they're still pretty damn tough.
Defense tanking is easy for an escort and not getting hit is always better than getting hit(just flying at full impulse gives me a defense of 80%, that's about 50% of PVE damage just never touching me). Combined with decent heals, 40% shield resist(easy to get) and the ultimate damage mitigation(the other guy dying) any teir 5 escort(especially the Armitage and Jem'hadar bug) can tank just about any PVE encounter that a cruiser can tank.
Just an off topic, question for you, I love the ship in you signature, can you tell me what class it is?
Back on topic, I can tank really really in pve and pvp but in pvp nothing, with my sovy i have added two or sometimes 3x phaser relays or tried torpedo consoles, had my weapons power at full, 125, torpedo spread or beam FAW. Nothing, normally run 6x phaser beams and 2x q-torpedo tubes, just did pvp this time used photon since they have the highest DPS for torpdeos and still nothing sometimes shields go down but there hull stays high or the other way round.
I play a cruiser because I don't like being up close and personal in a fight, I like to have time to think about what I am going to do in any given situation, however I expect to be capable of doing damage. As far as I am concerned the defensive balance (of Escorts vs Cruisers) is fine I get more defence paying with speed and turn rate but it should cost me my damage potential.
I listen to you all saying "Cruisers are Tanks, they are meant to take damage" the extension of this is that they should be incapable of dealing damage. The thing is I am a casual player (I run an Excel -R but it's hardly P2W, no special damage boosting consoles, no special combat boosts) and I don't want to get the perfect cruiser build for the game; I want the perfect cruiser build for me which it happens I have. I can hold off almost anything in the game but that's only HALF the fight; I need to be able to HURT my target at the same time!
Tanking is only half the job and frankly I shouldn't be forced to go and get an escort because I came up against an enemy ship on my travels, I don't mind my team contribution being that I heal others (while I strip enemy shields for them) while I'm out-gunned by an escort and science ships are better at playing with the targets, but that shouldn't stop me flying a general purpose ship (covering ALL the roles) whole obviously I'm better at tanking.
1 last point: Those of you who say that cruisers should have control capability. As the NPCs attack the most damaging ships I thus can't pull aggro off the escorts because they do so much more damage than I can ever dream of. My escort does stupid amounts of damage, if a cruiser doesn't have full (all 9 points) threat control it doesn't have a hope of taking it off me and my poor science is hopeless also. this is mainly due to the huge gulf between the end damage of DHCs vs Beam arrays.
As per my opening statement "Call me what you will"
And I'm at work now so I couldn't read through each post on my phone so I apologize ahead of time if this was already stated.
While I agree with most of what I read and see that cruisers are not as intimidating as they are in canon, I do feel that a rebalance of ships isn't really necessary.
What does need to be balanced in my opinion is content. There is a high demand for doing thing quickly, especially at end-game and the fact of the matter is, tacs in escorts do it fastest. There should be a bigger emphasis on team work and team balance within the content. Sure things should be soloable too, however I think science vessel captains and cruiser captains would get more satisfaction if the true power of their ships was more of a necessity.
I also think that for there to be true tanking in this game, which I think cruisers were intended for, there needs to be a better system for threat generation. Maybe like one of the posters mentioned about a heavy beam, that could have an increased threat generation on it as well for example so the cruiser can pull aggro off of a squishy escort.
If you notice in other MMOs, tanks always do less damage than dps classes because their job is to survive. But they also should be able to hold aggro and take heat off the other classes while whittling down the targets. I'm almost always playing a tank in every other MMO, infact when I created my STO toon at launch, I created him with the thought that he could be a tank, which of course I was mostly wrong (tactical).
I go through phases of using different ships depending on my mood. But I do love being in a huge cruiser and absorbing all the damage. I get satisfaction out of that even knowing im not doing the dps I could be doing in an escort.
It also depends on the captain, and what they want out of their ship. I've flown glass cannons, escort evasive tanks, cruiser absorb tanks, cruiser heal boats, cruiser dps, sci control ships, and sci heal boats. Of course some ships and captain class are more effective at certain things, but that does not mean any captain can tailor any ship to do what they want by changing weapon load out, boffs, console set up, etc.
I'm a dork with 15 end-game toons, and literally every ship in the game, including c-store and lock box ships. I just dont have all the Fleet versions... yet. I've flown all efficient builds to experimental good and bad. My main tac has 24 RA-VA ships alone. I love theory crafting and talking "shop" about ship building so I apologize if I went a little long in this post.