I'm sure cryptic will follow up with something like this, so far we have fleet saber (edit: or escort carrier for that reason with Akira skin). I bet they'll add more ships from lower tiers as new fleet ships or box ships. For that reason, I wouldn't be surprised to offer opposite faction ships as mirror universe box ship, with cloak and all the goodies. Heck, if that means more sales, why wouldn't they do it, lol.
Tier 5 Constitution +1 super pocket-cruiser Re-Re-Re-Re-Refit...
Commin to a lock box sometime in the future.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
Frosty, I think you criticize all p2w games business models. You either have to play this game as a full time job, to grind enough dilithium and exchange it for z credits (and really, who can really afford it except few people) and buy all the goodies, either open your wallet. Husanak nailed it right, you want to stay competitive, maybe even getting a slight edge, you must buy the zstore ships or open lots of boxes and take your chances in winning a better ship. This game is not what it was before pwe acquired cryptic, it follows a different model that by definition creates advantages for people that get best gear. And right now, this seems to work for cryptic better than it worked in the past, when they tried to have more ballanced ships/gear. I'm pretty sure mwo will follow the same path. The only difference would be that the gear may be less expensive (or more for that reason). P2w seems to be the key to success for mmos these days.
What I would do, is to offer some "upgrade" option that would transform your ship in a +1, or another upgrade that will give you whatever station in a ship as a universal. It would still mean "open your wallet" but let some people to keep their favorite choice ship.
Actually the really successful f2p mmos over here don't attempt to sell you Victory in a package. They sell you convenience, things like faster unlocks, bank space, etc. The only reason this is "working" is because STO has by and large the lionshare of rabid fanboy trekkies playing it that will buy any and everything trek. They haven't actually gained any new audience, they are only exploiting the ones they have. Age of Conan is doing really well for itself running the correct f2p western model, because the devs weren't complete morons like STO's devs are. Also f2p, and p2w isn't the only way to have a successful game. The state of the game also right now is frankly so poor, that if they were to launch in Asia it would Fail. Hard. They know this, which is why they haven't done it yet. They can't even gain new players over here, in a culture that is very familiar with trek. Because most gamers look and see Cryptic Studios name on the title and go "Yeah not going to happen"
Having devs that give a damn about their community is really the ticket. RIFT is a good example of that, they are still going right along where they were, and are making enough cash on RIFT alone to develop 2 high end projects simultaneously, they have had more content releases, in a six month period than STO has had since beta. They keep at their pvp balance, tweaking things based Directly off of customer feedback, and not some stupid TRIBBLE spread sheet and mysterious substances that have bearing on Reality.
I know who Mewi is and she's a damn good PvPer. I have no idea who you are though.
I suggest you take up the challenge and go PvP her, perhaps you'll learn to be more civil to each other after a good fight.
I doubt it. That aside, I already offered up a challenge once before. And mewi? Yeah. Dodged it. Someone didn't want to be made a youtube star, one way or another. Also, you know who I am. Or at least you'd recognize my account name in game.
I doubt Mewi is anything really special when "she" makes comments like "I don't 5v5 I 1v5!".
I doubt it. That aside, I already offered up a challenge once before. And mewi? Yeah. Dodged it. Someone didn't want to be made a youtube star, one way or another. Also, you know who I am. Or at least you'd recognize my account name in game.
I doubt Mewi is anything really special when "she" makes comments like "I don't 5v5 I 1v5!".
I CLEARLY just challenged you 10 posts ago? Yet I am the one dodging? All you do is disregard all logic so you can sit in your reinforced shelter of "I'm so good because I didn't fight Mewi, she sucks because I don't know her, and no one knows her, so she must suck at PvP even though I don't know her."
Oh logic, where did you go?
Yes I like unfair teams against me? And? I like a challenge, you are probably the type to be part of the 5 in rather than the 1. I recommend Whispering me @mewi for 1v1 challenge, until then keep your hands away from the keyboard.
PS: When did you ever challenge me? I can't recall a single time, show me the post.
I know who Mewi is and she's a damn good PvPer. I have no idea who you are though.
I suggest you take up the challenge and go PvP her, perhaps you'll learn to be more civil to each other after a good fight.
Pretty sure I've tried very hard to remain civil to this person, whilst him frequently throwing insults, and belittling me with videos that are clearly meant to offend. What do you think ;3?
Pretty sure this guy is Mavairo on an alt, which would mean he got banned a 2nd time.
And right now, this seems to work for cryptic better than it worked in the past, when they tried to have more ballanced ships/gear. I'm pretty sure mwo will follow the same path. The only difference would be that the gear may be less expensive (or more for that reason). P2w seems to be the key to success for mmos these days.
Indeed. I don't think we are going to be seeing Sub Style MMOs anymore. They may offer a sub option... really a few years down the road I don't even see them doing that.
Every MMO that has tried to do the perfect balance thing... has failed terribly.
STO failed for 2 years trying hard to keep every ship and skill mostly balanced. Of course you still have to have things mostly equal... but trying to make it perfectly balanced is complete fail.
Look at recent major title game, like TOR. Great base... terrible execution. At the core of why that have has failed (I know its not down and out yet)... I would say is there attempt to balance every single class... and every classes end game gear, ect ect. Funny enough they will be F2P shortly... and I wouldn't doubt that 6 months from now it looks more like STO.
Yes we can argue that they went to far with pushing the bug out of balance to sell them... really I think its just the nature of the single role escort ship in this game... every Lockbox escort ship is going to see much more out of balance then the lockbox cruisers or sci ships.
In most other MMOs there lockbox stuff would be items... STO is different having Captains and Ship combos. Think about any other MMO if they where to do lockbox classes... would a Lockbox assassin ever feel balanced ?
Again, might be worth watching if you still have not had the opportunity.....
Send that to Geko
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
pointless, delete his ****** spreadsheet and force him to play the game with a 5 man team at lvl 50 for an hour every day. Using a different ship/classes....maybe something might come out of it
Forgive the naive question but I'm too curious...is Mewi really a woman?:cool:
Anyway I see him/her in the Bug sometime at Ker'rat and he/she is a very skilled Captain!
Mewi is neither woman nor man.
Mewi is no less then a purple-painted-polaron-polluting-pain in the-posterior.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Again, might be worth watching if you still have not had the opportunity.....
Very interesting... I haven't had the chance to see it when you linked it first time, but I have to admit it is an interesting concept and it seems STO takes plenty advantages from it. And indeed, this perfect imbalance makes players look for other alternatives (aka a bug killer that one of the fleet escorts may be) so that after few months cryptic will release another box ship (or just buff the bug again) that will be [the whatever is deemed superior at that time] killer. It's definitely a smart mathematical and business model. I still don't think that Cryptic embraced this from a PvP standpoint, but I may be wrong and they may start the foundation and architecture of a new pvp core model. The beauty of perfect imbalance is the unlimited revenue money bag, players that want to stay competitive will realize that beyond skill, they will have to invest (aka open your wallet) for getting a slight advantage since complaints and whines about this and that being OP (aside of the bugs and issues that need to be addressed) won't address their issue.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
It fails to establish much and reinforces what many have said about the Bug being the best escort.
Three matches of three heats.
What would be nice is if two bug owners were to use the same ships, (for example the Bug) for three heats to establish a base line for individual performance. Then have two more matches of MAVM vs Bug for three heats where the players change ship between matches.
This way the bugs power relative to a top C-Store ship can e evaluated.
Better yet would be if both had Bugs and Fleet Defiants but I do not think too many fleets are there yet.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
It fails to establish much and reinforces what many have said about the Bug being the best escort.
This match was not a balance test match, and certainly was not a "Is this fleet level ship better then this non fleet level ship" The match was whether or not I had anything on Mavairo "In PvP, you've got nothing on me chump." Not an exact quote, but an accurate one.( Click Here )
Hey, other than being caustic a bit, Mav is a damn fine escort pilot! And same as mewi. It was a match that only proved mevi stand her grounds well. Even if bug gives a slight advantage, a noob wouldn't have gotten those results.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
This match was not a balance test match, and certainly was not a "Is this fleet level ship better then this non fleet level ship" The match was whether or not I had anything on Mavairo "In PvP, you've got nothing on me chump." Not an exact quote, but an accurate one.( Click Here )
Does not mean we cannot organize a test whether claims of the bug being OP has any basis in reality.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
This match was not a balance test match, and certainly was not a "Is this fleet level ship better then this non fleet level ship" The match was whether or not I had anything on Mavairo "In PvP, you've got nothing on me chump." Not an exact quote, but an accurate one.( Click Here )
I'd like to see us square off in Flyers, or shuttles though. I bet you'd be the only person that stands a chance against me in a shuttle duel.
And the 3 SNB doffs helped you Loads. I'd still take my chances in an Arena though.
Does not mean we cannot organize a test whether claims of the bug being OP has any basis in reality.
Anyone with eyesight can tell the Bug is better than any escort, proving that it is overpowered would be difficult. But definitely a test of non fleet MVAM vs a Bug ship isnt very realistic lol.
Anyone with eyesight can tell the Bug is better than any escort, proving that it is overpowered would be difficult. But definitely a test of non fleet MVAM vs a Bug ship isnt very realistic lol.
Do me a solid and remove the name of the guy you fought that MAVM vs Bug match with from your post before this.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
Anyone with eyesight can tell the Bug is better than any escort, proving that it is overpowered would be difficult. But definitely a test of non fleet MVAM vs a Bug ship isnt very realistic lol.
A non fleet mvam, flown with subpar gear for dueling, and sleep deprived, half drunk pilot.
Cryptic has a chip on their shoulder about naming banned peeps. Like massive chip. Like so massive we'll likely both get kicked in the proverbial nuts for it.
This match was not a balance test match, and certainly was not a "Is this fleet level ship better then this non fleet level ship" The match was whether or not I had anything on Mavairo "In PvP, you've got nothing on me chump." Not an exact quote, but an accurate one.( Click Here )
It was wrong of Ghosty to assume Mewi was a nub compared to him just because he'd never seen her before...
Edit: Mewi, I'd really like to set up a match between the two of us. Bug vs Bug?
Comments
Tier 5 Constitution +1 super pocket-cruiser Re-Re-Re-Re-Refit...
Commin to a lock box sometime in the future.
Actually the really successful f2p mmos over here don't attempt to sell you Victory in a package. They sell you convenience, things like faster unlocks, bank space, etc. The only reason this is "working" is because STO has by and large the lionshare of rabid fanboy trekkies playing it that will buy any and everything trek. They haven't actually gained any new audience, they are only exploiting the ones they have. Age of Conan is doing really well for itself running the correct f2p western model, because the devs weren't complete morons like STO's devs are. Also f2p, and p2w isn't the only way to have a successful game. The state of the game also right now is frankly so poor, that if they were to launch in Asia it would Fail. Hard. They know this, which is why they haven't done it yet. They can't even gain new players over here, in a culture that is very familiar with trek. Because most gamers look and see Cryptic Studios name on the title and go "Yeah not going to happen"
Having devs that give a damn about their community is really the ticket. RIFT is a good example of that, they are still going right along where they were, and are making enough cash on RIFT alone to develop 2 high end projects simultaneously, they have had more content releases, in a six month period than STO has had since beta. They keep at their pvp balance, tweaking things based Directly off of customer feedback, and not some stupid TRIBBLE spread sheet and mysterious substances that have bearing on Reality.
I doubt it. That aside, I already offered up a challenge once before. And mewi? Yeah. Dodged it. Someone didn't want to be made a youtube star, one way or another. Also, you know who I am. Or at least you'd recognize my account name in game.
I doubt Mewi is anything really special when "she" makes comments like "I don't 5v5 I 1v5!".
Ah, I challenged you to a 1v1, you clearly dodged my challenge with an insulting remark. Classy dodge.
I CLEARLY just challenged you 10 posts ago? Yet I am the one dodging? All you do is disregard all logic so you can sit in your reinforced shelter of "I'm so good because I didn't fight Mewi, she sucks because I don't know her, and no one knows her, so she must suck at PvP even though I don't know her."
Oh logic, where did you go?
Yes I like unfair teams against me? And? I like a challenge, you are probably the type to be part of the 5 in rather than the 1. I recommend Whispering me @mewi for 1v1 challenge, until then keep your hands away from the keyboard.
PS: When did you ever challenge me? I can't recall a single time, show me the post.
Pretty sure I've tried very hard to remain civil to this person, whilst him frequently throwing insults, and belittling me with videos that are clearly meant to offend. What do you think ;3?
Pretty sure this guy is Mavairo on an alt, which would mean he got banned a 2nd time.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Indeed. I don't think we are going to be seeing Sub Style MMOs anymore. They may offer a sub option... really a few years down the road I don't even see them doing that.
Every MMO that has tried to do the perfect balance thing... has failed terribly.
STO failed for 2 years trying hard to keep every ship and skill mostly balanced. Of course you still have to have things mostly equal... but trying to make it perfectly balanced is complete fail.
Look at recent major title game, like TOR. Great base... terrible execution. At the core of why that have has failed (I know its not down and out yet)... I would say is there attempt to balance every single class... and every classes end game gear, ect ect. Funny enough they will be F2P shortly... and I wouldn't doubt that 6 months from now it looks more like STO.
Yes we can argue that they went to far with pushing the bug out of balance to sell them... really I think its just the nature of the single role escort ship in this game... every Lockbox escort ship is going to see much more out of balance then the lockbox cruisers or sci ships.
In most other MMOs there lockbox stuff would be items... STO is different having Captains and Ship combos. Think about any other MMO if they where to do lockbox classes... would a Lockbox assassin ever feel balanced ?
i'll take you all on!!!!!!!!!!!
*drinks*
*takes a swing*
...
*misses horribly*
rawr!
If you both put your money where your mouths are and scrapped, can I ask who flew what and how it all scored out?
Here it is, if you want to see it and good game
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
So you flew the bug?
Lol. Bug is op!!!
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Again, might be worth watching if you still have not had the opportunity.....
Send that to Geko
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Mewi is neither woman nor man.
Mewi is no less then a purple-painted-polaron-polluting-pain in the-posterior.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Very interesting... I haven't had the chance to see it when you linked it first time, but I have to admit it is an interesting concept and it seems STO takes plenty advantages from it. And indeed, this perfect imbalance makes players look for other alternatives (aka a bug killer that one of the fleet escorts may be) so that after few months cryptic will release another box ship (or just buff the bug again) that will be [the whatever is deemed superior at that time] killer. It's definitely a smart mathematical and business model. I still don't think that Cryptic embraced this from a PvP standpoint, but I may be wrong and they may start the foundation and architecture of a new pvp core model. The beauty of perfect imbalance is the unlimited revenue money bag, players that want to stay competitive will realize that beyond skill, they will have to invest (aka open your wallet) for getting a slight advantage since complaints and whines about this and that being OP (aside of the bugs and issues that need to be addressed) won't address their issue.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
OMG! I love this! Well done, Mewi!
@f4tamy | Sad Pandas
LMAO! This got me laughin'! I needed this tonight
It fails to establish much and reinforces what many have said about the Bug being the best escort.
Three matches of three heats.
What would be nice is if two bug owners were to use the same ships, (for example the Bug) for three heats to establish a base line for individual performance. Then have two more matches of MAVM vs Bug for three heats where the players change ship between matches.
This way the bugs power relative to a top C-Store ship can e evaluated.
Better yet would be if both had Bugs and Fleet Defiants but I do not think too many fleets are there yet.
This match was not a balance test match, and certainly was not a "Is this fleet level ship better then this non fleet level ship" The match was whether or not I had anything on Mavairo "In PvP, you've got nothing on me chump." Not an exact quote, but an accurate one. ( Click Here )
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Does not mean we cannot organize a test whether claims of the bug being OP has any basis in reality.
I'd like to see us square off in Flyers, or shuttles though. I bet you'd be the only person that stands a chance against me in a shuttle duel.
And the 3 SNB doffs helped you Loads. I'd still take my chances in an Arena though.
Anyone with eyesight can tell the Bug is better than any escort, proving that it is overpowered would be difficult. But definitely a test of non fleet MVAM vs a Bug ship isnt very realistic lol.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Do me a solid and remove the name of the guy you fought that MAVM vs Bug match with from your post before this.
A non fleet mvam, flown with subpar gear for dueling, and sleep deprived, half drunk pilot.
Why would I do such a thing o.o?
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Cryptic has a chip on their shoulder about naming banned peeps. Like massive chip. Like so massive we'll likely both get kicked in the proverbial nuts for it.
I love it because of what it DOES establish. And Mewi puts it quite nicely:
It was wrong of Ghosty to assume Mewi was a nub compared to him just because he'd never seen her before...
Edit: Mewi, I'd really like to set up a match between the two of us. Bug vs Bug?
@f4tamy | Sad Pandas
Sure x3 Although I just bought a fleet patrol escort cause it is so perty~ Was hoping to fly that for awhile. But I could delay n.n
@Ghosty: Shuttle PvP? Never really tried it seriously, I certainly have the items for it though.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |