Sure and I guess then we remove a bunch of doffs as well then... shield distros can go... the dmg control doff... the maintence doffs... the warp core doffs... the hazards doffs... Def Lab doffs... ya know remove all the extra healing that has been added as well.
Frankly we would all get by with out Tac Team, people might have to pilot there ships again instead of park and pivot... I don't know I don't think Tac Team being removed would be the dooms day people seem to think.
Honestly if it turns out to be that bad... all they have to do is up the natural resist from shield power 10-20%... problem solved.
actually yeah I'd be game for the complete removal of Doffs.
The game needs to revert to Season 3, or earlier honestly because this game has been doing nothing but degrade with every single new thing they introduce.
Only in your opinion, many others would disagree, me being one of them. The DOFFs add another level of complexity and variety to the builds and can make a real difference if done right.
This whole thread seems pointless to me, but as a bug owner, someone who spent a long long time saving up the EC to buy one, I don't want to see it nerfed because a few people think it's too difficult to kill. Surely if it's hard to kill then there is your ultimate PvP challenge, rather than nerf everything into a bland global mediocrity, a level playing field of moribund ship builds, why not try to excel at what you've got.
I also run a nebula and the way it's set up I love it when an escort tries to kill me in it, they die real quick and the harder they hit the faster they die, no bug can threaten it seriously. I made this build deliberately to prove that you can take on any ship including the bug in a seemingly far inferior ship. As I said earlier the best weapon you can have on your ship is the one between your ears.
And for all those decrying and whining about the bug, then save your EC and buy one whilst there's still a few about. It will cost you 40,000 Zen to buy one by selling fleet ship modules, it's a lot of money for sure but it's all you'll ever want to fly again I guarantee it, the whole game is transformed with such a fast, agile and powerful ship, put simply it's a shed load of fun that can't be beaten for me at least in this game by any other ship.
Most people seem to agree. This games pvp population nose dived hard, over the last 2 years+. Doffs haven't seemed to help that much. Ontop of that, everything for the most part Doffs do now, Boffs used to do single handedly, with the only exception being the SDOs. All they did was take what the game used to be, and break it down into some stupid TRIBBLE /faceroll wanna be azn title grind fest to get the same results.
Either give the MVAM and Defiant more teeth, or nerf the bug. While they are at it they will have to boost the Saber, the Nausicaan Escort, Fleet Patrol, the Aquarius, both Fleet Bops, and the 2 Fleet Raptors.
You can whine all you want about how "omg you just want to make me not special", but that don't pass with me. What, do you think people that bought fleet ships don't get the right to have Great ships too? What makes you so special?
There's a difference between killing someone' that is awesome and amazing in a fight, and killing someone that's only awesome because of the toys he is flying. Sure I kill average pilots flying bugs. Because they aren't capable of getting the miles out of the airframe. Hell they can't even get the full miles out of a normal Escort. The problem is, when you put someone who is frankly only a little above average in a bug, that doesn't know all of the advanced tricks of the Trade, and he's still able to keep pace with someone in another Escort who Does know all the tricks of the Trade.
And right there you just summed up that yes the Bug is infact OP. Thank you for that last paragraph. And no I don't want to spend Hundreds of Dollars on a Ship. That's just Stupid. Not only that, but frankly why would I want an advantage that takes an already over all unchallenging pvp experience and make it even more pathetic? I win too much in pvp as it is, to the point where I rarely play this game anymore, between the Suck For Luck skill level of the average STO player in the ques, seriously by and large I can sleep through a given fight practically. People have Sucked SO hard and long in this game and refused to get better that I've virtually given up trying to help the community anymore which is why my presence in my cruiser and sci threads has dwindled down, and the repeated kick in the nuts this game has delivered to pvp.
Reading through your posts you seem to take a very defensive and aggressive attitude to anyone who doesn't agree with you, this is a shame because you do make some valid points.
Nothing makes me special, I just bought a ship that I loved and really really wanted, it cost me a lot of money because this is my hobby and I put all my spare cash into it but I am not rich. Obviously I wouldn't like to see it nerfed, I wouldn't mind other ships catching up a bit but as I stated and you so deftly ignored I can kill a bug in my Nebula anyway.
PvP in this game needs some love for sure, it will get it over the next two seasons or so we are told. I spend most of my time in PvE nowadays anyway helping to build my fleet base but when I do go to PvP it is most enjoyable in my bug but I often get killed anyway. It's not an I Win button, that's a silly claim, it has some advantages of course and it should, it cost a lot, it's extremely rare, a diamond wouldn't be a diamond if they were as common as pebbles.
Because people at this point should know how the game works 2 years+ in. This isn't a terribly hard game to figure out honestly. I shouldn't even be having to bring up these points because they are so retardedly obvious, that honestly I shouldn't have to bring them up at all. It's beyond frustrating to have to do this, time and time again.
Yes, killing someone with FBP3 and tac buffs. That's not really killing someone, that's them frying themselves. And really the only people are you are going to be gibbing repeatedly are the Unskilled with a setup like that.
Also, why don't the rest of everyone else get to have nice things? I mean really, what makes your love of the ship design any lesser than my love of the Cerebus/prommy/hephestus, and someone elses love of the Defiant, Raptor, or BOP more important? The Cryptic refuses to bring them up to par because Captain Inbred himself, doesn't see the issues. Allegedly. I refuse to believe he is really that stupid otherwise he'd have killed himself in a Darwin Award fashion by now.
If you're dying often in a bug, 1 of 2 things is happening, 1 you haven't figured out the ship yet and or 2 you're pugging. Pugging is never the metric that you should gauge balance on, especially in this game.
Diamonds actually are only expensive because of the DeBeers monopoly. They set the prices for diamonds, and their rarity actually has nothing to do with their cost. (see Industrial diamonds for example)
Saying you can kill it in a Nebula's not really relevant to the bug however, as it's a science ship. You're fighting an apple with an orange, not an apple with an inferior apple, which is what any escort pilot would be doing.
I think a big point of contention is that it out-escorts any other escort. If you rely on other means than turn rate and front arc DPS to do your thing, then you're not nearly as handicapped. A sci ship running FBP for example's turning an escort's strength against it, and as the strongest escort, the bug will take the biggest hits from such a tactic. That said, I'd love to have seen it happen, it sounds pretty cool.
I'm finally at breaking point and considering embracing the cheese and running phaser/danube Armitage and drain carriers. But that won'e be fun.
Fair point about the Mk XII [acc]x3 by the way, I can't recall who made it nor be bothered to wait for my browser to lumber back to that page.
I think if the Fleet ships were brought up to a decent standard, with KDF ones being brought up to parity, and with them being brought into line with the JHAS, it wouldn't diminish the JHAS with a nerf at all, but we wouldn't be faced with a situation where there is only one "best" ship, and it's of such limited availability. It should be unique, but it shouldn't be dramaticly OP.
So, guys, what is your solution and how do you plan to implement it?
Hull reduced to 26k base.
Shield mod reduced to .9
Allow the use of ramming speed regardless of your current hull strength.
It would make much more sense to me without nerfing its crazy turnrate which is the biggest issue in my opinion. And it adds something cool to the ship.
Saying you can kill it in a Nebula's not really relevant to the bug however, as it's a science ship. You're fighting an apple with an orange, not an apple with an inferior apple, which is what any escort pilot would be doing.
I think a big point of contention is that it out-escorts any other escort. If you rely on other means than turn rate and front arc DPS to do your thing, then you're not nearly as handicapped. A sci ship running FBP for example's turning an escort's strength against it, and as the strongest escort, the bug will take the biggest hits from such a tactic. That said, I'd love to have seen it happen, it sounds pretty cool.
I'm finally at breaking point and considering embracing the cheese and running phaser/danube Armitage and drain carriers. But that won'e be fun.
Fair point about the Mk XII [acc]x3 by the way, I can't recall who made it nor be bothered to wait for my browser to lumber back to that page.
I think if the Fleet ships were brought up to a decent standard, with KDF ones being brought up to parity, and with them being brought into line with the JHAS, it wouldn't diminish the JHAS with a nerf at all, but we wouldn't be faced with a situation where there is only one "best" ship, and it's of such limited availability. It should be unique, but it shouldn't be dramaticly OP.
People just don't spend money on something that's just unique. Its the same as someone willing to buy [acc]x3 weapons for 100s of millions on the exchange. Because its precious, and yes because it is the best.
It's an attractive offer, and as Cryptic have stated - it's supposed to make people want to spend money to buy it. Why would anyone want to buy - "Here, spend really money on a "LOCKBOX lucky draw" average ship"??? We already saw what happened with the mirrior ships...
I'd say the advantage in turning the Bug has over most fed escorts is much smaller .
Which means that the nose of their ship is on your ship more frequently than the reverse. Add in a 5th tac console for extra damage, and yeah, you will go down.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
So its basically the same, but has ~30% better turn and an extra tac console while only being marginally better in all other stats... good thing maneuvering and damage don't make much difference for an escort. :rolleyes:
spot on....
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Regardless their power can be turned against them and they will die if they try to continue, in this match the bug is not all powerful, it cannot kill a Nebby or other sci ship, you could also cycle FBP on an escort too for similar dramatic results
This was used in the metaphorical sense not a literal one, although having to mine a million diamonds to find a single 1 carot diamond, a mineral that has taken millions of years to form in the Earth's mantel under very specific temperature/pressure requirements, formed from carbon that could only have been blasted into space by a dying star undergoing a supernova explosion some may see as slightly rarer than pebbles.
Matt
The first part would be more valid if the bug couldn't also use FBP. In essence it's weakness can also be used against other escorts exploiting their weakness. But it generally doesn't help that most escorts only have a Lt. Sci spot and FBP is a Lt. skill with a 15 second duration and a 1 min CD. Besides pointing out 1 ability that helps exploit the strength of all escorts doesn't necessarily fix the bug (as stated it can also use this skill). The point being for as easily as you throw out that skill the short duration and long CD are easy to mitigate for an escort pilot (ie just stop firing energy weapons for 15 seconds).
For the diamond part we can synthetically make 1 carot diamonds. Mining is no longer necessary. Price is also generally the same
There is no secret about weapon timings and time to target... people do the same thing to evasive into someone and land 2 hy patterns into a hull.... its no secret, and its no hax.
Last I checked Tac Team was NOT a RSP... it was a redistribution of shield power... I can outstrip Tac Team 1 with a defiant or any other 4 tac console escort... wth does that have to do with the bug ?
I fly my defiant at 100 engine power, and rail road HY 3 x 2 into a target.... is that hax then ? lmao
bs huh? at the very least its not obvious to a novice, and ive never seen anyone give that advice anywhere on the forum. i didn't figure it out till around the time the bug first came out last december or whatever. i finally noticed how effective dumping all that damage in the fewest server clicks was, when i saw the bug doing it so well. calling it a hax is satirical, the same way pandas and others often refer to legitimate, basic tactics as hax. i suppose i should just stop trying to be light hearted.
you quoted what it had to do with a bug, with its superior turn rate and impulse mod it can make several full speed passes at a target delivering cycle after cycle of DHC fire in about the time it takes for the cool down to pass between cycles. any other escort or any other cannon using ship can do this on 1 pass, but only it and bops can do this 'easily' for several passes during a single 10 second alpha strike period. all but guaranteeing a kill when done right, you can only get half your hull taken away per pass so many times.
the extra % of damage a bug can deal can have a similar effect to using this high speed tactic, hitting so hard and abruptly that tt cant out pace the incoming damage. this is an example of the bug replacing skill with its bloated stats. combining the skill with the tactic like always is devastating in the bug. no other escort can defeat TT and deal so much damage strait to your hull like the bug can, charging or not, its an order of magnitude difference. the 2 fleet escorts will do similarly.
Well forgive the bluntness of the first line last night it was late. lol
I was simply pointing out that its the system... and it does in fact work on other ships... I run aux to damp often on my defiant and honestly I think it works better.
I have in the past when talking about torps often mentioned the advantage of flight times on torps. As far as it being a bug I don't think so.... I mean every weapon has a travel time. Beams are near instant which make them a good preasure weapon... cannons and torps have travel time which make them the burst weapon... I don't really see the issue.
I know that simplifies it somewhat as beams with a beam overload timed to hit with all your other stuff on the way... can also be a form of burst.
Point is the weapon mechanics are most easily used to the advantage of ANY escort... if its setup to do it... and if the pilot is thinking that. I mean we have posted how many threads describing how to provide burst... and talk over and over about timing....
You have a point though, new players would not be thinking in those terms perhaps right away... but most vets understand timing importance.
Perhaps its time for me to recreate the escort advice thread... and seeing as cryptic made the old one hard to read.
you guys are touching on what i try to get through to all new players....
this game, like may others is all about knowing your weapons/powers and how to best implement them......therefore....
PILOTING is the key to success in pvp. this includes situational awareness and making decisions on the fly.
timing takes practice.....like.....it took me forever to learn how to time a overload and a high yield together. and the fact that it is different with every ship, and every power setting....well....thats why being a good pilot is so important. you feel it out.
this is just like every other video game no? we all get the opportunity to have very similar gear/loadouts......yet the scores always show different outcomes yes?
the human element is the best in this game, what a great community to learn from. trekkies rule, nerds unite.
I don't understand one thing: If the bug would be available for everybody, wouldn't some folks think its still op? Normal, rational thing would be that it would be. I see a lot of us here mentioning "but it outclasses all escorts". Overall bug is indeed a ship with superior attributes, in my own definition is not op, but I don't think it warrants the attribute of being a game ballance breaker (lets be honest, a good escort pilot is op more than the bug will ever be).
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
I don't understand one thing: If the bug would be available for everybody, wouldn't some folks think its still op? Normal, rational thing would be that it would be. I see a lot of us here mentioning "but it outclasses all escorts". Overall bug is indeed a ship with superior attributes, in my own definition is not op, but I don't think it warrants the attribute of being a game ballance breaker (lets be honest, a good escort pilot is op more than the bug will ever be).
here is a true statement prometheus:
the best escort pilots in the game are OP no matter what ship they are in.
there will always be a few either ahead of, or directly on top of the curve....you cannot fault individuals for that, a great pilot will make it work.....even if the turnrate is a little off....or you get a ltcm sci slot instead of a lt....ect ect.....same applies for cruiser pilots, and the oddy....same arguments will persist. just on different powers/build objectives.
the best escort pilots in the game are OP no matter what ship they are in.
there will always be a few either ahead of, or directly on top of the curve....you cannot fault individuals for that, a great pilot will make it work.....even if the turnrate is a little off....or you get a ltcm sci slot instead of a lt....ect ect.....same applies for cruiser pilots, and the oddy....same arguments will persist. just on different powers/build objectives.
Right. If this bug would be a fleet escort, available in both sides, or a zstore ship, a lot of the complaints here would vanish. On the other side, I understand frosty and dontdrunk, they also have a good point. Thing is that with where the game is going and the target at the horizon (not being funny, lol) those will be the new ships, that gradually would replace the old ones. But a great escort pilot (or simply a great pilot) will always kick rear, even if a less experienced player will have a better box ship and will have a slight advantage. I think that's the reality where we are and all we can do is maybe to ask cryptic for more box ships, lol.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
I would agree with prometheus... bugs can fail just as hard as any other ship, and that isn't the bug's fault, it's the pilot's. The best way to put it I think is that it's a force multiplier. A good pilot becomes great in the bug, and a great pilot becomes nigh unstoppable.
In Beta (maybe Gamma) MVAM I can take a good Tac bug about two or three times out of ten.
With anything else there's really no contest, without a dedicated bug-fighting loadout you cannot go toe to toe against one in something like the Saber or the Patrol Escort. With those two, your best chance would be t-beam spam, that and cranking full aux before popping Aux2ID.
I would also agree with dontdrunk, the place I'd start is with the bug's survivability. In just about every serious game under the sun you find a strong tradeoff between damage-dishing capability and innate hardiness, and at the minute the bug doesn't pay (if anything it's rewarded) for its speed and assault power. A glass cannon should be just that: a glass cannon, shiny but easily shattered.
will be the new ships, that gradually would replace the old ones.
sure about that, are you? The fleet ships threathened to approach the Bugs level, and they slapped an extra tac console on it to make sure it's still superior...
I would agree with prometheus... bugs can fail just as hard as any other ship, and that isn't the bug's fault, it's the pilot's. The best way to put it I think is that it's a force multiplier. A good pilot becomes great in the bug, and a great pilot becomes nigh unstoppable.
In Beta (maybe Gamma) MVAM I can take a good Tac bug about two or three times out of ten.
With anything else there's really no contest, without a dedicated bug-fighting loadout you cannot go toe to toe against one in something like the Saber or the Patrol Escort. With those two, your best chance would be t-beam spam, that and cranking full aux before popping Aux2ID.
I would also agree with dontdrunk, the place I'd start is with the bug's survivability. In just about every serious game under the sun you find a strong tradeoff between damage-dishing capability and innate hardiness, and at the minute the bug doesn't pay (if anything it's rewarded) for its speed and assault power. A glass cannon should be just that: a glass cannon, shiny but easily shattered.
Agreed. Every other hard-hitting escort/DPSer out there has to sacrifice at least some survivability to get their advantage (Bops sacrificing hull, shield modifier, and tac consoles in exchange for universal boffs slots and battlecloak, for example). The Defiant is a relatively nimble, hard-hitting escort that sacrificing tanking ability to get it. As others have mentioned, the Jem'hadar doesn't feature this. For all intents and purposes, it's the perfect escort vessel. . .hardest-hitting and as tanky as a MVAE or other 'tanking' escort, if not better. The only thing that screws the JHAS up, as others have said, is the skill of the pilot.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
the skill of the pilot is irreverent sidetracking of the issue anyway, that being that the numbers that determines the ships potential performance are better in every way then all alternatives and it lacks a single dump stat. no ship should have stats that can be described like that in a game that depends on a balance being in place. any one who cant agree to that has had their objectivity compromised.
the skill of the pilot is irreverent sidetracking of the issue anyway, that being that the numbers that determines the ships potential performance are better in every way then all alternatives and it lacks a single dump stat. no ship should have stats that can be described like that in a game that depends on a balance being in place. any one who cant agree to that has had their objectivity compromised.
Dontdrunk, the fleet defiant is very close. In fact, with cloak, may be even worse than the bug, despite a not so good turning rate (which with skills and good equipment/abilities - turn console, aux to id, etc will compensate the bug turn rate easily). I think your point applies also to fleet mvam, 4 sci consoles on an escort doesn't make mvam a bad alternative either. What I'm saying is that the game evolves to superior ships, where bug gets the advantage of better impulse and better turn (all other are really not so important IMO), which is indeed an advantage, but any new fleet ship is greatly superior to old alternatives. I do believe that only a very skilled pilot can beat you in a bug, and also maybe that pilot wouldn't be able to do that (or it would be much harder to do it) on an old escort. In few months, when everybody will have access to new ships, I'm sure we will see more defeated bugs than we see now.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Don't bet on it, I'm already putting together a Fleet Defiant Killer, can't wait for a good scrap but the bug will reign supreme and the whiners that don't have one will keep whining LOL.
You gotta send you wife out on the streets, ransom your kids, rob a bank, whatever it takes, just get a Bug or be bugged by bugs and end up buggered!
At least the mvam can fight any bug to a standstill with enough correct use of VM, tractor locks, and phaser procs. Mind that's about the best you can hope for if both pilots are equally skilled but it's better than the poor fleet defiant is going to fare.
Don't bet on it, I'm already putting together a Fleet Defiant Killer, can't wait for a good scrap but the bug will reign supreme and the whiners that don't have one will keep whining LOL.
You gotta send you wife out on the streets, ransom your kids, rob a bank, whatever it takes, just get a Bug or be bugged by bugs and end up buggered!
I already have the bug. And I only got 2 doffs packages on last day of promotion, last one was the winner. So I'm a lucky TRIBBLE, lol. I'm also planning on getting the defiant and mvam, and im on the same page w frosty, I think Fleet mvam can be a bug killer easier than fleet defiant. Gotta see it though...
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Comments
actually yeah I'd be game for the complete removal of Doffs.
The game needs to revert to Season 3, or earlier honestly because this game has been doing nothing but degrade with every single new thing they introduce.
a science-console
Most people seem to agree. This games pvp population nose dived hard, over the last 2 years+. Doffs haven't seemed to help that much. Ontop of that, everything for the most part Doffs do now, Boffs used to do single handedly, with the only exception being the SDOs. All they did was take what the game used to be, and break it down into some stupid TRIBBLE /faceroll wanna be azn title grind fest to get the same results.
Either give the MVAM and Defiant more teeth, or nerf the bug. While they are at it they will have to boost the Saber, the Nausicaan Escort, Fleet Patrol, the Aquarius, both Fleet Bops, and the 2 Fleet Raptors.
You can whine all you want about how "omg you just want to make me not special", but that don't pass with me. What, do you think people that bought fleet ships don't get the right to have Great ships too? What makes you so special?
There's a difference between killing someone' that is awesome and amazing in a fight, and killing someone that's only awesome because of the toys he is flying. Sure I kill average pilots flying bugs. Because they aren't capable of getting the miles out of the airframe. Hell they can't even get the full miles out of a normal Escort. The problem is, when you put someone who is frankly only a little above average in a bug, that doesn't know all of the advanced tricks of the Trade, and he's still able to keep pace with someone in another Escort who Does know all the tricks of the Trade.
And right there you just summed up that yes the Bug is infact OP. Thank you for that last paragraph. And no I don't want to spend Hundreds of Dollars on a Ship. That's just Stupid. Not only that, but frankly why would I want an advantage that takes an already over all unchallenging pvp experience and make it even more pathetic? I win too much in pvp as it is, to the point where I rarely play this game anymore, between the Suck For Luck skill level of the average STO player in the ques, seriously by and large I can sleep through a given fight practically. People have Sucked SO hard and long in this game and refused to get better that I've virtually given up trying to help the community anymore which is why my presence in my cruiser and sci threads has dwindled down, and the repeated kick in the nuts this game has delivered to pvp.
Because people at this point should know how the game works 2 years+ in. This isn't a terribly hard game to figure out honestly. I shouldn't even be having to bring up these points because they are so retardedly obvious, that honestly I shouldn't have to bring them up at all. It's beyond frustrating to have to do this, time and time again.
Yes, killing someone with FBP3 and tac buffs. That's not really killing someone, that's them frying themselves. And really the only people are you are going to be gibbing repeatedly are the Unskilled with a setup like that.
Also, why don't the rest of everyone else get to have nice things? I mean really, what makes your love of the ship design any lesser than my love of the Cerebus/prommy/hephestus, and someone elses love of the Defiant, Raptor, or BOP more important? The Cryptic refuses to bring them up to par because Captain Inbred himself, doesn't see the issues. Allegedly. I refuse to believe he is really that stupid otherwise he'd have killed himself in a Darwin Award fashion by now.
If you're dying often in a bug, 1 of 2 things is happening, 1 you haven't figured out the ship yet and or 2 you're pugging. Pugging is never the metric that you should gauge balance on, especially in this game.
Diamonds actually are only expensive because of the DeBeers monopoly. They set the prices for diamonds, and their rarity actually has nothing to do with their cost. (see Industrial diamonds for example)
And here I thought that Cryptic just cut them off. :rolleyes:
I think a big point of contention is that it out-escorts any other escort. If you rely on other means than turn rate and front arc DPS to do your thing, then you're not nearly as handicapped. A sci ship running FBP for example's turning an escort's strength against it, and as the strongest escort, the bug will take the biggest hits from such a tactic. That said, I'd love to have seen it happen, it sounds pretty cool.
I'm finally at breaking point and considering embracing the cheese and running phaser/danube Armitage and drain carriers. But that won'e be fun.
Fair point about the Mk XII [acc]x3 by the way, I can't recall who made it nor be bothered to wait for my browser to lumber back to that page.
I think if the Fleet ships were brought up to a decent standard, with KDF ones being brought up to parity, and with them being brought into line with the JHAS, it wouldn't diminish the JHAS with a nerf at all, but we wouldn't be faced with a situation where there is only one "best" ship, and it's of such limited availability. It should be unique, but it shouldn't be dramaticly OP.
Hull reduced to 26k base.
Shield mod reduced to .9
Allow the use of ramming speed regardless of your current hull strength.
It would make much more sense to me without nerfing its crazy turnrate which is the biggest issue in my opinion. And it adds something cool to the ship.
People just don't spend money on something that's just unique. Its the same as someone willing to buy [acc]x3 weapons for 100s of millions on the exchange. Because its precious, and yes because it is the best.
It's an attractive offer, and as Cryptic have stated - it's supposed to make people want to spend money to buy it. Why would anyone want to buy - "Here, spend really money on a "LOCKBOX lucky draw" average ship"??? We already saw what happened with the mirrior ships...
Which means that the nose of their ship is on your ship more frequently than the reverse. Add in a 5th tac console for extra damage, and yeah, you will go down.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
spot on....
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
The first part would be more valid if the bug couldn't also use FBP. In essence it's weakness can also be used against other escorts exploiting their weakness. But it generally doesn't help that most escorts only have a Lt. Sci spot and FBP is a Lt. skill with a 15 second duration and a 1 min CD. Besides pointing out 1 ability that helps exploit the strength of all escorts doesn't necessarily fix the bug (as stated it can also use this skill). The point being for as easily as you throw out that skill the short duration and long CD are easy to mitigate for an escort pilot (ie just stop firing energy weapons for 15 seconds).
For the diamond part we can synthetically make 1 carot diamonds. Mining is no longer necessary. Price is also generally the same
bs huh? at the very least its not obvious to a novice, and ive never seen anyone give that advice anywhere on the forum. i didn't figure it out till around the time the bug first came out last december or whatever. i finally noticed how effective dumping all that damage in the fewest server clicks was, when i saw the bug doing it so well. calling it a hax is satirical, the same way pandas and others often refer to legitimate, basic tactics as hax. i suppose i should just stop trying to be light hearted.
you quoted what it had to do with a bug, with its superior turn rate and impulse mod it can make several full speed passes at a target delivering cycle after cycle of DHC fire in about the time it takes for the cool down to pass between cycles. any other escort or any other cannon using ship can do this on 1 pass, but only it and bops can do this 'easily' for several passes during a single 10 second alpha strike period. all but guaranteeing a kill when done right, you can only get half your hull taken away per pass so many times.
the extra % of damage a bug can deal can have a similar effect to using this high speed tactic, hitting so hard and abruptly that tt cant out pace the incoming damage. this is an example of the bug replacing skill with its bloated stats. combining the skill with the tactic like always is devastating in the bug. no other escort can defeat TT and deal so much damage strait to your hull like the bug can, charging or not, its an order of magnitude difference. the 2 fleet escorts will do similarly.
I was simply pointing out that its the system... and it does in fact work on other ships... I run aux to damp often on my defiant and honestly I think it works better.
I have in the past when talking about torps often mentioned the advantage of flight times on torps. As far as it being a bug I don't think so.... I mean every weapon has a travel time. Beams are near instant which make them a good preasure weapon... cannons and torps have travel time which make them the burst weapon... I don't really see the issue.
I know that simplifies it somewhat as beams with a beam overload timed to hit with all your other stuff on the way... can also be a form of burst.
Point is the weapon mechanics are most easily used to the advantage of ANY escort... if its setup to do it... and if the pilot is thinking that. I mean we have posted how many threads describing how to provide burst... and talk over and over about timing....
You have a point though, new players would not be thinking in those terms perhaps right away... but most vets understand timing importance.
Perhaps its time for me to recreate the escort advice thread... and seeing as cryptic made the old one hard to read.
this game, like may others is all about knowing your weapons/powers and how to best implement them......therefore....
PILOTING is the key to success in pvp. this includes situational awareness and making decisions on the fly.
timing takes practice.....like.....it took me forever to learn how to time a overload and a high yield together. and the fact that it is different with every ship, and every power setting....well....thats why being a good pilot is so important. you feel it out.
this is just like every other video game no? we all get the opportunity to have very similar gear/loadouts......yet the scores always show different outcomes yes?
the human element is the best in this game, what a great community to learn from. trekkies rule, nerds unite.
have fun kill bad guys
true! neither have I!
btw: it's also quite tricky to pull off against a target moving at high speed and changing directions.
and especially when flying an escort! (by far the trickiest ship to get realize the full potential of)
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
here is a true statement prometheus:
the best escort pilots in the game are OP no matter what ship they are in.
there will always be a few either ahead of, or directly on top of the curve....you cannot fault individuals for that, a great pilot will make it work.....even if the turnrate is a little off....or you get a ltcm sci slot instead of a lt....ect ect.....same applies for cruiser pilots, and the oddy....same arguments will persist. just on different powers/build objectives.
Right. If this bug would be a fleet escort, available in both sides, or a zstore ship, a lot of the complaints here would vanish. On the other side, I understand frosty and dontdrunk, they also have a good point. Thing is that with where the game is going and the target at the horizon (not being funny, lol) those will be the new ships, that gradually would replace the old ones. But a great escort pilot (or simply a great pilot) will always kick rear, even if a less experienced player will have a better box ship and will have a slight advantage. I think that's the reality where we are and all we can do is maybe to ask cryptic for more box ships, lol.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
In Beta (maybe Gamma) MVAM I can take a good Tac bug about two or three times out of ten.
With anything else there's really no contest, without a dedicated bug-fighting loadout you cannot go toe to toe against one in something like the Saber or the Patrol Escort. With those two, your best chance would be t-beam spam, that and cranking full aux before popping Aux2ID.
I would also agree with dontdrunk, the place I'd start is with the bug's survivability. In just about every serious game under the sun you find a strong tradeoff between damage-dishing capability and innate hardiness, and at the minute the bug doesn't pay (if anything it's rewarded) for its speed and assault power. A glass cannon should be just that: a glass cannon, shiny but easily shattered.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
sure about that, are you? The fleet ships threathened to approach the Bugs level, and they slapped an extra tac console on it to make sure it's still superior...
Agreed. Every other hard-hitting escort/DPSer out there has to sacrifice at least some survivability to get their advantage (Bops sacrificing hull, shield modifier, and tac consoles in exchange for universal boffs slots and battlecloak, for example). The Defiant is a relatively nimble, hard-hitting escort that sacrificing tanking ability to get it. As others have mentioned, the Jem'hadar doesn't feature this. For all intents and purposes, it's the perfect escort vessel. . .hardest-hitting and as tanky as a MVAE or other 'tanking' escort, if not better. The only thing that screws the JHAS up, as others have said, is the skill of the pilot.
Dontdrunk, the fleet defiant is very close. In fact, with cloak, may be even worse than the bug, despite a not so good turning rate (which with skills and good equipment/abilities - turn console, aux to id, etc will compensate the bug turn rate easily). I think your point applies also to fleet mvam, 4 sci consoles on an escort doesn't make mvam a bad alternative either. What I'm saying is that the game evolves to superior ships, where bug gets the advantage of better impulse and better turn (all other are really not so important IMO), which is indeed an advantage, but any new fleet ship is greatly superior to old alternatives. I do believe that only a very skilled pilot can beat you in a bug, and also maybe that pilot wouldn't be able to do that (or it would be much harder to do it) on an old escort. In few months, when everybody will have access to new ships, I'm sure we will see more defeated bugs than we see now.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
At least the mvam can fight any bug to a standstill with enough correct use of VM, tractor locks, and phaser procs. Mind that's about the best you can hope for if both pilots are equally skilled but it's better than the poor fleet defiant is going to fare.
I already have the bug. And I only got 2 doffs packages on last day of promotion, last one was the winner. So I'm a lucky TRIBBLE, lol. I'm also planning on getting the defiant and mvam, and im on the same page w frosty, I think Fleet mvam can be a bug killer easier than fleet defiant. Gotta see it though...
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...