The only real solution to this that I see to allow lower level players the opportunity to earn fleet marks and avoid the problems the level scaling system has is to do one of the following:
Set up bracketed fleet events for each rank
Set up two brackets
Elite Fleet Events - just rename the ones we have as it and make them all 40-45+
Fleet Events - make these for Lt. - Captain balanced at the Lt. Commander/Commander level
The devs say most people are at level cap but I do see alot of lower level players in these. I was in a Starbase Defense the other night where it was first off four of us, me as a VA, two Lt. Commanders, and a Commander. We earned a whopping two fleet marks.
On both sides of the coin, this is not fair to people at level cap, nor is it fair to people a lower levels. It boils down to that somewhere along the lines someone made the decision to push everyone into one mission using the level scaling system. That decision may have been time and cost effective, but it is not fair to the playerbase. Just look at the issues it is causing.
They should give them their own bracket. Because as with the Borg DSEs, having lower levels in the group actually decreases chances of succeeding in these events. (Even if they are captained by Lifetimers).
If they want lower levels to mix with higher levels, then Cryptic needs boost them more than just making them temporarily level 60. Maybe decrease NPC's strength or increase the timer based on the lowest level.
Ok so it does appear the ALOT feel the same way I do about after earning your ability to carry a mission through, and having to go above and beyond that using expensive consumables to carry leechers.
Ive been reading this topic from the beginning... and I dont think anyone has ever agreed with you...
Now for the few that hammered me about not completing the mission. Here is some news for you:
Infected Ground (Normal) I have done over 450 times. How many EVER won (And that means playing to the end), NONE. Yes people that is correct. I spent many many, many, many hours doing this mission over and over and over, with lowbie noobs etc. even a few VA's thrown in like myself on occasion, and ALL FAILED, because of the dying noobsters.
So in this this instance... 'lowbie noobs' are what? Level 45 players? Because thats the level when STFs open up... And if youve never won 1 Infected Ground mission on Normal... then you have more problems you need to take a look at... because even with PUGs I won more missions than I failed on that one...
Do I want to endure this pain and suffering again spending hundreds of thousands of EC trying to carry and teach them only to never see them again?.
What the heck are you spending hundreds of thousands of ECs on to finish missions? Hypos? Batteries? What? Because Ive been running STFs for a long while... and I dont think Ive spend that much, even on failed runs... and I dont hardly buy anything for the new Fleet missions.
Main point quit with the QQ and deal with getting low level players in public queues. Finish the mission, regardless of the cost, or live with the leaver penalty.
I fully support an early leaver penalty.
I have never left a fleet event or STF early, no matter how bad it goes.
And I've never had to use "hundreds of thousands of EC" on even several PUGs in a row, even when they go bad...so, donno what's so expensive there.
Now if we could get a penalty for those that don't move or fire the whole mission.
Lord Krueg
KBF CO We are the Dead
join date Aug 2008
Low level players trying to earn fleet marks are not leechers. They're just trying to contribute to their fleet's projects just like you.
Yes, but they are not contributing. A lvl 7, even when he is bumped up in hull points, doesn?t put a dent into a single, measly frigate. Nada, nothing. They lack the character skills, boff skills and finally equipment slots to contribte anything. A lvl 50 flying a runabout/fighter/shuttle would have a higher dmg output and survivability as a lowie Miranda. Since they?re not contributing, they?re leeching. Even worse, they are not only leeching, but also actively sabotaging the event for everyone else, since the fleet mark output will be close to zero.
So either put them in their own brackets, similar to SB24 or the mirror events, or keep them out until they hit 44 as is being done in STFs.
Until then I?ll treat them like the trolls taking their Connies to STFs or sitting around afk: I won't play with them.
Yes, but they are not contributing. A lvl 7, even when he is bumped up in hull points, doesn?t put a dent into a single, measly frigate. Nada, nothing. They lack the character skills, boff skills and finally equipment slots to contribte anything. A lvl 50 flying a runabout/fighter/shuttle would have a higher dmg output and survivability as a lowie Miranda. Since they?re not contributing, they?re leeching. Even worse, they are not only leeching, but also actively sabotaging the event for everyone else, since the fleet mark output will be close to zero.
So either put them in their own brackets, similar to SB24 or the mirror events, or keep them out until they hit 44 as is being done in STFs.
Until then I?ll treat them like the trolls taking their Connies to STFs or sitting around afk: I won't play with them.
It is not their fault that the game queues them in with vice admirals. Leeching is an intentional behavior, and just queueing up for a game does not make you a leecher, regardless of who is in the game with you. Low level players joining a public queue are also not "actively sabotaging" anything.
As for the fleet mark output being "close to zero" because of lowbie players, that's just flat out wrong. I've played events with all vice admirals and a mix of ranks, and they gave the same amount of fleet marks depending on the level of success the mission had.
I've also seen all VA teams fail spectacularly at Fleet Alert (the event I find the easiest) and mixed teams succeed easily. Yes, even mixed teams with a member ranking as low as level 7. You may think a low ranking player can't contribute, but you'd be wrong. I've seen them do just fine in the events, and I'd rather have them than a level 50 who sits around and does nothing (which I've also seen happen).
So what if low level players die easily or don't have the same DPS you do? Escorts die easily. Some cruisers don't have fantastic DPS. Do you refuse to play with them too? :rolleyes:
If you don't want to play with "lowbies" then don't enter the public queues. Make your own private match until the matches are level-gated (if that ever happens).
Upon entering earlier, I attempted the No-Win scenario (Which is a VA50 Mission) and upon rez had a Captain with ZERO accolade points sitting next to me. Knowing full well he is a one hit wonder who will immediately explode cryning HELP and HILFE, leaving the rest of the team to have to carry him and spend costly consumables, as always, I left before it even started.
Wham, hit with penalty.
.
Stop whining. The leaver penalty is designed specifically for people like you that would leave your team mates high and dry. If you don't like what shows up in pugs, don't pug to begin with.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
BTW it is near, (unless you DOFFed you way there), impossible to get to VA without getting the damage received and dealt accolades.
Impossible? Not at all. Not by a long shot. Both on my Fed and my KDF I made it to VA/LG without having made even 2000 accolade points. And I didn't doff my way there in either case.
On my Fed I made it to VA in a little over a week, and some of my kill accolades hadn't even unlocked yet. In fact, after doing all the story episodes and a bunch of STFs and fleet actions, I had to go into the Foundry to do accolade grind missions in order to get all my kill accs, and even so I still have one pending after having made +9000 acc points.
I created my KDF on 7/14/2012 and I made it to LG in four days flat, not even trying. I haven't even finished the story episodes; Coliseum's been in progress for at least 2 weeks. Accolade points so far: 3515. Kill accolades still to go: 21, most of them still under 500 kills (with quite a few even under 100).
I just got pugged with 2 captains, 1 commander and 1 BA for Klingon Fleet Alert. Needless to say, we failed the mission. We didn't even make it to wave 3. Worst game ever.
Now, mission only lasts 10 minutes or so, but it's time that I lost shooting TRIBBLE -and adding to my keyboard wreckage- for nothing. All I got was SEVEN lousy fleet marks. I could have been doing 10 other different things which would have been far more rewarding, either in-game or in RL. But because of the leave penalty, I couldn't leave. So, fine, I stayed and did my best until the clock timed out.
However, I'm still p-off and frustrated for having wasted my time.
The "don't leave your team mates out to dry" TRIBBLE is BS. My time and effort is as valuable as theirs, and the mission was a fail ANYWAY, regardless of whether I stayed or left. The lowbies didn't earn anything for their time and effort either, or learned anything new other than "I need to level the frak up".
So leave penalties are not a solution. They are not benefiting anyone.
The solution for this is fairly simple: devs make it so no more than one lowbie is pugged in a team. 2 max, but it's a stretch. That gives the high levels a chance to successfully finish the mission, and it also gives the lowbies the chance to learn the ropes while getting rewards in the process. Everyone ends up happy. Gg.
Zero sympathy here. Time for you "elite" people to actually start helping and mentoring less experienced players instead of leaving the team just because you are too good for everyone.
Impossible? Not at all. Not by a long shot. Both on my Fed and my KDF I made it to VA/LG without having made even 2000 accolade points. And I didn't doff my way there in either case.
On my Fed I made it to VA in a little over a week, and some of my kill accolades hadn't even unlocked yet. In fact, after doing all the story episodes and a bunch of STFs and fleet actions, I had to go into the Foundry to do accolade grind missions in order to get all my kill accs, and even so I still have one pending after having made +9000 acc points.
I created my KDF on 7/14/2012 and I made it to LG in four days flat, not even trying. I haven't even finished the story episodes; Coliseum's been in progress for at least 2 weeks. Accolade points so far: 3515. Kill accolades still to go: 21, most of them still under 500 kills (with quite a few even under 100).
So, yeah, I beg to differ.
Please allow me to highlight the operating adverb that makes you response pedantic,
BTW it is near, (unless you DOFFed you way there), impossible to get to VA without getting the damage received and dealt accolades.
See I never said impossible, I did say almost, nigh, just about, close to , fairly or any other synonym you could think of. Then I listed an example in parenthesis. For that matter much like you, (and as I said before), most of my toons have precious few accolades but I did notice I managed to get many of the damage dealt and received ones from story play and PvP.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
and the discussion is about players what leave mission for whatever reason and make the mission for the smaller group harder?
and if dis discussion is about that i vote for 5 hours penality for anyone who join a mission and then leave its 100% not importend why if he leave he have to pay for that.;)
I got no remorse about making things harder for a group of players who would never finish a mission without my help. One player shouldn't have to carry an entire STF...not on elite, at least, and especially not elite space. Yeah, it's rare that things get that bad, but when you have a team-full of people who are not ready for elite and do not communicate (in whatever language they speak...) you expect me to feel bad for them? Heck, it's a penalty just to finish the game! I'd rather take the leaver's penalty and do something else or swap characters!
Someone once called me an elitist when I explained that I could see that the STF we were in was going to take three times longer than average, and that I was going to leave. I laughed and said, well, that it WAS an "elite" STF. I'll be an elitist again for a moment. Note that the poster I quoted is arguing for even tougher penalties against "elitists." S/he thinks that if a good player is alone in a team full of players who don't care about playing a mission well or arriving prepared to do the job, that the good player should be punished for not sacrificing themselves for them. On one hand, you could say it's "for the good of the many" as in the other teammates. On the other hand, it would be better for that player's fleet if s/he were to ditch that mission and swap. My point is, we have someone here arguing for tougher penalties against elitists but who doesn't have the knowledge or the self-respect to spell properly. That is the same attitude I see from some players who arrive in badly-set-up ships, ignore advice from veteran players, don't call for help when they need it, and then talk smack when "elitists" start to lose their patience!!! How about some sort of vote-to-kick option to punish people like them, then, if you are going to have leaver's penalties? Huh?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Zero sympathy here. Time for you "elite" people to actually start helping and mentoring less experienced players instead of leaving the team just because you are too good for everyone.
Oh believe me, I try. You assume that most less experienced players actually listen to advice, or even care. When I enter a team mission that I am unfamiliar with, I ask for advice and I listen to it. If everyone did that, I would hardly ever quit out of a mission. I know this because whenever a mission is going badly, if even some of the team is communicating and clearly trying then I almost never abandon them.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Oh believe me, I try. You assume that most less experienced players actually listen to advice, or even care. When I enter a team mission that I am unfamiliar with, I ask for advice and I listen to it. If everyone did that, I would hardly ever quit out of a mission. I know this because whenever a mission is going badly, if even some of the team is communicating and clearly trying then I almost never abandon them.
I try multiple times. If people don't listen the first time around then I try to give advice again. Sometimes I have to do it on the local channel or use emotes to get their attention because some people aren't watching team chat.
If the situation is truly hopeless someone always quits before I do. When I finally am forced to quit whatever coding there is recognizes others have quite before I did. Then I can try again with NO leaver penalty. Simple as that.
I'm fine with the penalty to be honest. Having been in a few groups now where people have bailed before we even started I'm fine with them been penalised for it. The irony is, that if people just stuck to the groups and played, they'd probably earn more Fleet Marks per hour as they wouldn't have as much time spent in queues.
To be honest, this is why I hate the queue mechanic in MMO's, ever since it appeared its just encouraged anti-social behavior in MMO's where team mates don't even bother to talk to each other anymore and leave on a whim because they can just join another group. I miss the good old days, even though getting a group together was more of a hassle, you atleast communicated with other people and made more of an effort to ensure everyone in the group knew what was going on.
As far as the leaver penalty is concerned it only affects one character. If you are worried you can switch characterss and play again.
This is why they should make the Leaver penalty Account wide. Of course I know that unless they put in a AFK penalty this wont solve anything. People will just go AFK to avoid the penalty.
Please allow me to highlight the operating adverb that makes you response pedantic,
"BTW, is near impossible..."
See I never said impossible, I did say almost, nigh, just about, close to , fairly or any other synonym you could think of. Then I listed an example in parenthesis. For that matter much like you, (and as I said before), most of my toons have precious few accolades but I did notice I managed to get many of the damage dealt and received ones from story play and PvP.
It is not near impossible. It is not almost, nigh, just about, close to, fairly or any-other-synonym-you-could-think-of impossible. It is actually quite on the opposite side of impossible, as in quite ridiculously easy to get to VA without the kill accolades.
So your statement is simply just PLAIN WRONG.
I wasn't trying to be "pedantic" in my first post, but now I am.
This is why they should make the Leaver penalty Account wide. Of course I know that unless they put in a AFK penalty this wont solve anything. People will just go AFK to avoid the penalty.
This is why they should make the Leaver penalty Account wide. Of course I know that unless they put in a AFK penalty this wont solve anything. People will just go AFK to avoid the penalty.
What you are saying is akin to lowering the speed limit on a closed expressway/freeway from, say, 65 mph--already slow to many drivers--to 45 mph because inexperienced drivers (or people who don't like or don't care about driving well) are intimidated by the higher speeds. How about suggesting that those drivers use surface roads instead? Or, better yet, increasing the speed limit to European levels (80 mph is fairly standard, even in tiny Luxembourg) so that people will actually pay attention like they should while driving at such speeds or pay the penalty?
I'll close my round of posts in this thread with a reiteration of this point: if you are going to step up penalties against leavers, you had better balance that by stepping up penalties (or actually creating them in the first place) against the careless players who prompt people to quit in the first place. A vote to kick option seems to be the best bet, requiring three players to vote you out at first and then just two if you have been kicked a lot recently (or perhaps you can get the same penalty leavers get if you get kicked too many times within a certain span of time). Votes to kick should be broadcast automatically to the team so that the other players know what is going on. It won't help veterans stuck in bad STF's where too many of the others are clueless, but it would help. A vet is also more likely to get other players to support his/her vote-to-kick attempt if the vet clearly offered advice along the way and the malfeasant player clearly ignored said advice, which is good if it means vets will be more likely to communicate as well instead of just blowing up and/or quitting as soon as somebody makes a mistake.
Don't like the vote-to-kick idea? I'm not entirely convinced of it myself. How about we just go back to the way things were then and call it square, without stepping up the leaver's penalties? Because if you do that, I say it's only fair that players who are actually trying to do a good job can boot your hide if you wander about aimlessly mucking things up!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Fleet events are not "elite type missions", and to get to No Win (the event you're complaining about) you have to be a Vice Admiral. That's the only requirement. And how the hell are "lowbies" supposed to learn how to run a fleet event if they don't play them? (Answer: they can't.)
By learning how to play the dam game through storylines and doing things like PVP as well. Not asking ME to teach and carry them. That's for their fleeters to do.
You want to exclude "lowbies" because "they aren't experienced enough". You're claiming that you're more qualified for whatever reason. Guess what? That's elitism.
Wrong, it is called FED UP.
Too Bad, So Sad
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
What kind of demon keeled over and spilled his horrid essense over basic logic to make you think that accolades are in any way a proper method of appraising ones skill?
Very simple, it gives them a pile of 2% chances to hold up better to NPC hits (Kill and Damage).
Second, it shows they took the time to learn how to play.
Rank doesn't mean zilch anymore, because everyone becomes a VA in like a week. Doesn't mean they spent anytime learning how to play.
Too Bad, So Sad
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
It is not near impossible. It is not almost, nigh, just about, close to, fairly or any-other-synonym-you-could-think-of impossible. It is actually quite on the opposite side of impossible, as in quite ridiculously easy to get to VA without the kill accolades.
So your statement is simply just PLAIN WRONG.
I wasn't trying to be "pedantic" in my first post, but now I am.
Good day.
0.o
Sorry you read all my posts plain wrong.
I never once mentioned kill accolades like you get from killing x number of Romulans or Klingons. I said damage dealt and received, you know the kind that come from firing phasers and disruptors and polarons, or Punching Bag's kinetic damage received.
If you actually play the game, (and not level only by DOFFing), it is nigh impossible to get past LtC, (level 20), without getting the Punching Bag accolade from getting hit by NPC and or player torps and mines.
So in fact you are the one who is quite wrong.
And a hearty good day to you too SIR! HarumPH!!!
*Storms off in an over animated mock huff, gets off stage and dies laughing*
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
So in this this instance... 'lowbie noobs' are what? Level 45 players? Because thats the level when STFs open up... And if youve never won 1 Infected Ground mission on Normal... then you have more problems you need to take a look at... because even with PUGs I won more missions than I failed on that one...
Well, aren't you the privledged queen? Some of us aren't as lucky to have all of our capable friends on at the same time and are forced to PUG it. As stated earlier, RANK MEANS NOTHING. VA in a week, no stroylines, no pvp jump right in and wreck it all is about your typical F2P noob.
Problems? how about ON REZ, in chat, try yelling: wait do not run ahead, and wham, everything aggroed, impossible to reach hostages in time, mission done almost immediately. THAT is the problem with ALL of the noobsters.
Go ahead and tell me I am wrong on that.
ELITE?? I finished those a long time ago, luckily finished Cure and KA Normal, but Infected Ground? 400+ times, NEVER.
What the heck are you spending hundreds of thousands of ECs on to finish missions? Hypos? Batteries? What? Because Ive been running STFs for a long while... and I dont think Ive spend that much, even on failed runs... and I dont hardly buy anything for the new Fleet missions.
Give the girl a Quipy pie for nailing the consumables required.
Lady I have plenty of shielding, weapons and accolades to stand up to a severe beating, but when you are the ONLY one fighting TAC ELITE and REBECCA and throw in some other Borgsters, I don't care how much armor and shielding you have, your eventually going to go down IF you do not use your Hypos or other consumables. That is the fact Jack.
Burning these up every mission digging into EC over and over and over. Because I am usually the only one standing, and listening to AS YOU PUT IT. QQ (I think that means crying) of HELP and HILFE. And my reply? Drop dead.
Main point quit with the QQ and deal with getting low level players in public queues. Finish the mission, regardless of the cost, or live with the leaver penalty.
Wrong, I will not spend another consumable or waste my time teaching the stupid and leeching. Not my job, I don't want it, but feel free to take the position anytime you want.
Too Bad, So Sad
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
I never once mentioned kill accolades like you get from killing x number of Romulans or Klingons. I said damage dealt and received, you know the kind that come from firing phasers and disruptors and polarons, or Punching Bag's kinetic damage received.
If you actually play the game, (and not level only by DOFFing), it is nigh impossible to get past LtC, (level 20), without getting the Punching Bag accolade from getting hit by NPC and or player torps and mines.
So in fact you are the one who is quite wrong.
And a hearty good day to you too SIR! HarumPH!!!
*Storms off in an over animated mock huff, gets off stage and dies laughing*
I know Martin in game and he is a darn good player who knows what he is talking about. I know he isn't DOFFING, his way like Sollvax the troll is.
At the same time you are correct about the puniching bag, but geez let's face it, that is only ONE of the pile of 2% you need to have to stand up to the severe beatings you can take in these types of missions.
Best kill and damage accs AND EXPERIENCE would come from doing at least SOME PVP both ground AND space, before even attempting to do PVE's and STF's, how do I know? I did ONE and was murdered wback when I was a noob, never went back until I had some decent gear and accs to hold up.
I as well as others, are considerate players, not greedy little whiney shts, like most of these noob F2P are.
So as for all the laughing off the stage bit, watch out, you might trip and fall.
Too Bad, So Sad
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
Comments
Guess we don't need to read your posts then, eh? :P Since only the first one is 'importend'... :rolleyes:
They should give them their own bracket. Because as with the Borg DSEs, having lower levels in the group actually decreases chances of succeeding in these events. (Even if they are captained by Lifetimers).
If they want lower levels to mix with higher levels, then Cryptic needs boost them more than just making them temporarily level 60. Maybe decrease NPC's strength or increase the timer based on the lowest level.
Ive been reading this topic from the beginning... and I dont think anyone has ever agreed with you...
So in this this instance... 'lowbie noobs' are what? Level 45 players? Because thats the level when STFs open up... And if youve never won 1 Infected Ground mission on Normal... then you have more problems you need to take a look at... because even with PUGs I won more missions than I failed on that one...
What the heck are you spending hundreds of thousands of ECs on to finish missions? Hypos? Batteries? What? Because Ive been running STFs for a long while... and I dont think Ive spend that much, even on failed runs... and I dont hardly buy anything for the new Fleet missions.
Main point quit with the QQ and deal with getting low level players in public queues. Finish the mission, regardless of the cost, or live with the leaver penalty.
Why should it? And I mean a valid reason, not some silly "VAs should retire" reason.
you keep stealing bread out of their mouths to give to the VA's they are going to QUIT
So there are no VA's that pay for the game? Nice try, but that's really a stretch. And it's still not a valid reason.
Incursion and the other fleet events should remain the way they are, open to everyone (with the exception of no win, that should remain level 50).
I have never left a fleet event or STF early, no matter how bad it goes.
And I've never had to use "hundreds of thousands of EC" on even several PUGs in a row, even when they go bad...so, donno what's so expensive there.
Now if we could get a penalty for those that don't move or fire the whole mission.
KBF CO
We are the Dead
join date Aug 2008
me to never left to anyone from my 2k missions thats why i vote for 5 hours penality:D
Yes, but they are not contributing. A lvl 7, even when he is bumped up in hull points, doesn?t put a dent into a single, measly frigate. Nada, nothing. They lack the character skills, boff skills and finally equipment slots to contribte anything. A lvl 50 flying a runabout/fighter/shuttle would have a higher dmg output and survivability as a lowie Miranda. Since they?re not contributing, they?re leeching. Even worse, they are not only leeching, but also actively sabotaging the event for everyone else, since the fleet mark output will be close to zero.
So either put them in their own brackets, similar to SB24 or the mirror events, or keep them out until they hit 44 as is being done in STFs.
Until then I?ll treat them like the trolls taking their Connies to STFs or sitting around afk: I won't play with them.
It is not their fault that the game queues them in with vice admirals. Leeching is an intentional behavior, and just queueing up for a game does not make you a leecher, regardless of who is in the game with you. Low level players joining a public queue are also not "actively sabotaging" anything.
As for the fleet mark output being "close to zero" because of lowbie players, that's just flat out wrong. I've played events with all vice admirals and a mix of ranks, and they gave the same amount of fleet marks depending on the level of success the mission had.
I've also seen all VA teams fail spectacularly at Fleet Alert (the event I find the easiest) and mixed teams succeed easily. Yes, even mixed teams with a member ranking as low as level 7. You may think a low ranking player can't contribute, but you'd be wrong. I've seen them do just fine in the events, and I'd rather have them than a level 50 who sits around and does nothing (which I've also seen happen).
So what if low level players die easily or don't have the same DPS you do? Escorts die easily. Some cruisers don't have fantastic DPS. Do you refuse to play with them too? :rolleyes:
If you don't want to play with "lowbies" then don't enter the public queues. Make your own private match until the matches are level-gated (if that ever happens).
Stop whining. The leaver penalty is designed specifically for people like you that would leave your team mates high and dry. If you don't like what shows up in pugs, don't pug to begin with.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
"Help" in SPACE???
Impossible? Not at all. Not by a long shot. Both on my Fed and my KDF I made it to VA/LG without having made even 2000 accolade points. And I didn't doff my way there in either case.
On my Fed I made it to VA in a little over a week, and some of my kill accolades hadn't even unlocked yet. In fact, after doing all the story episodes and a bunch of STFs and fleet actions, I had to go into the Foundry to do accolade grind missions in order to get all my kill accs, and even so I still have one pending after having made +9000 acc points.
I created my KDF on 7/14/2012 and I made it to LG in four days flat, not even trying. I haven't even finished the story episodes; Coliseum's been in progress for at least 2 weeks. Accolade points so far: 3515. Kill accolades still to go: 21, most of them still under 500 kills (with quite a few even under 100).
So, yeah, I beg to differ.
Now, mission only lasts 10 minutes or so, but it's time that I lost shooting TRIBBLE -and adding to my keyboard wreckage- for nothing. All I got was SEVEN lousy fleet marks. I could have been doing 10 other different things which would have been far more rewarding, either in-game or in RL. But because of the leave penalty, I couldn't leave. So, fine, I stayed and did my best until the clock timed out.
However, I'm still p-off and frustrated for having wasted my time.
The "don't leave your team mates out to dry" TRIBBLE is BS. My time and effort is as valuable as theirs, and the mission was a fail ANYWAY, regardless of whether I stayed or left. The lowbies didn't earn anything for their time and effort either, or learned anything new other than "I need to level the frak up".
So leave penalties are not a solution. They are not benefiting anyone.
The solution for this is fairly simple: devs make it so no more than one lowbie is pugged in a team. 2 max, but it's a stretch. That gives the high levels a chance to successfully finish the mission, and it also gives the lowbies the chance to learn the ropes while getting rewards in the process. Everyone ends up happy. Gg.
Those are my 2 cents. Flame on.
Please allow me to highlight the operating adverb that makes you response pedantic,
See I never said impossible, I did say almost, nigh, just about, close to , fairly or any other synonym you could think of. Then I listed an example in parenthesis. For that matter much like you, (and as I said before), most of my toons have precious few accolades but I did notice I managed to get many of the damage dealt and received ones from story play and PvP.
I got no remorse about making things harder for a group of players who would never finish a mission without my help. One player shouldn't have to carry an entire STF...not on elite, at least, and especially not elite space. Yeah, it's rare that things get that bad, but when you have a team-full of people who are not ready for elite and do not communicate (in whatever language they speak...) you expect me to feel bad for them? Heck, it's a penalty just to finish the game! I'd rather take the leaver's penalty and do something else or swap characters!
Someone once called me an elitist when I explained that I could see that the STF we were in was going to take three times longer than average, and that I was going to leave. I laughed and said, well, that it WAS an "elite" STF. I'll be an elitist again for a moment. Note that the poster I quoted is arguing for even tougher penalties against "elitists." S/he thinks that if a good player is alone in a team full of players who don't care about playing a mission well or arriving prepared to do the job, that the good player should be punished for not sacrificing themselves for them. On one hand, you could say it's "for the good of the many" as in the other teammates. On the other hand, it would be better for that player's fleet if s/he were to ditch that mission and swap. My point is, we have someone here arguing for tougher penalties against elitists but who doesn't have the knowledge or the self-respect to spell properly. That is the same attitude I see from some players who arrive in badly-set-up ships, ignore advice from veteran players, don't call for help when they need it, and then talk smack when "elitists" start to lose their patience!!! How about some sort of vote-to-kick option to punish people like them, then, if you are going to have leaver's penalties? Huh?
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Oh believe me, I try. You assume that most less experienced players actually listen to advice, or even care. When I enter a team mission that I am unfamiliar with, I ask for advice and I listen to it. If everyone did that, I would hardly ever quit out of a mission. I know this because whenever a mission is going badly, if even some of the team is communicating and clearly trying then I almost never abandon them.
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
I try multiple times. If people don't listen the first time around then I try to give advice again. Sometimes I have to do it on the local channel or use emotes to get their attention because some people aren't watching team chat.
If the situation is truly hopeless someone always quits before I do. When I finally am forced to quit whatever coding there is recognizes others have quite before I did. Then I can try again with NO leaver penalty. Simple as that.
To be honest, this is why I hate the queue mechanic in MMO's, ever since it appeared its just encouraged anti-social behavior in MMO's where team mates don't even bother to talk to each other anymore and leave on a whim because they can just join another group. I miss the good old days, even though getting a group together was more of a hassle, you atleast communicated with other people and made more of an effort to ensure everyone in the group knew what was going on.
This is why they should make the Leaver penalty Account wide. Of course I know that unless they put in a AFK penalty this wont solve anything. People will just go AFK to avoid the penalty.
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
It is not near impossible. It is not almost, nigh, just about, close to, fairly or any-other-synonym-you-could-think-of impossible. It is actually quite on the opposite side of impossible, as in quite ridiculously easy to get to VA without the kill accolades.
So your statement is simply just PLAIN WRONG.
I wasn't trying to be "pedantic" in my first post, but now I am.
Good day.
I'd get a second account, problem fixed.
What you are saying is akin to lowering the speed limit on a closed expressway/freeway from, say, 65 mph--already slow to many drivers--to 45 mph because inexperienced drivers (or people who don't like or don't care about driving well) are intimidated by the higher speeds. How about suggesting that those drivers use surface roads instead? Or, better yet, increasing the speed limit to European levels (80 mph is fairly standard, even in tiny Luxembourg) so that people will actually pay attention like they should while driving at such speeds or pay the penalty?
I'll close my round of posts in this thread with a reiteration of this point: if you are going to step up penalties against leavers, you had better balance that by stepping up penalties (or actually creating them in the first place) against the careless players who prompt people to quit in the first place. A vote to kick option seems to be the best bet, requiring three players to vote you out at first and then just two if you have been kicked a lot recently (or perhaps you can get the same penalty leavers get if you get kicked too many times within a certain span of time). Votes to kick should be broadcast automatically to the team so that the other players know what is going on. It won't help veterans stuck in bad STF's where too many of the others are clueless, but it would help. A vet is also more likely to get other players to support his/her vote-to-kick attempt if the vet clearly offered advice along the way and the malfeasant player clearly ignored said advice, which is good if it means vets will be more likely to communicate as well instead of just blowing up and/or quitting as soon as somebody makes a mistake.
Don't like the vote-to-kick idea? I'm not entirely convinced of it myself. How about we just go back to the way things were then and call it square, without stepping up the leaver's penalties? Because if you do that, I say it's only fair that players who are actually trying to do a good job can boot your hide if you wander about aimlessly mucking things up!
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Agreed
By learning how to play the dam game through storylines and doing things like PVP as well. Not asking ME to teach and carry them. That's for their fleeters to do.
Wrong, it is called FED UP.
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
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Very simple, it gives them a pile of 2% chances to hold up better to NPC hits (Kill and Damage).
Second, it shows they took the time to learn how to play.
Rank doesn't mean zilch anymore, because everyone becomes a VA in like a week. Doesn't mean they spent anytime learning how to play.
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
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0.o
Sorry you read all my posts plain wrong.
I never once mentioned kill accolades like you get from killing x number of Romulans or Klingons. I said damage dealt and received, you know the kind that come from firing phasers and disruptors and polarons, or Punching Bag's kinetic damage received.
If you actually play the game, (and not level only by DOFFing), it is nigh impossible to get past LtC, (level 20), without getting the Punching Bag accolade from getting hit by NPC and or player torps and mines.
So in fact you are the one who is quite wrong.
And a hearty good day to you too SIR! HarumPH!!!
*Storms off in an over animated mock huff, gets off stage and dies laughing*
Then I guess you don't comprehend what you read. Try brushing up on reading comprehension.
Well, aren't you the privledged queen? Some of us aren't as lucky to have all of our capable friends on at the same time and are forced to PUG it. As stated earlier, RANK MEANS NOTHING. VA in a week, no stroylines, no pvp jump right in and wreck it all is about your typical F2P noob.
Problems? how about ON REZ, in chat, try yelling: wait do not run ahead, and wham, everything aggroed, impossible to reach hostages in time, mission done almost immediately. THAT is the problem with ALL of the noobsters.
Go ahead and tell me I am wrong on that.
ELITE?? I finished those a long time ago, luckily finished Cure and KA Normal, but Infected Ground? 400+ times, NEVER.
Give the girl a Quipy pie for nailing the consumables required.
Lady I have plenty of shielding, weapons and accolades to stand up to a severe beating, but when you are the ONLY one fighting TAC ELITE and REBECCA and throw in some other Borgsters, I don't care how much armor and shielding you have, your eventually going to go down IF you do not use your Hypos or other consumables. That is the fact Jack.
Burning these up every mission digging into EC over and over and over. Because I am usually the only one standing, and listening to AS YOU PUT IT. QQ (I think that means crying) of HELP and HILFE. And my reply? Drop dead.
Wrong, I will not spend another consumable or waste my time teaching the stupid and leeching. Not my job, I don't want it, but feel free to take the position anytime you want.
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
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I know Martin in game and he is a darn good player who knows what he is talking about. I know he isn't DOFFING, his way like Sollvax the troll is.
At the same time you are correct about the puniching bag, but geez let's face it, that is only ONE of the pile of 2% you need to have to stand up to the severe beatings you can take in these types of missions.
Best kill and damage accs AND EXPERIENCE would come from doing at least SOME PVP both ground AND space, before even attempting to do PVE's and STF's, how do I know? I did ONE and was murdered wback when I was a noob, never went back until I had some decent gear and accs to hold up.
I as well as others, are considerate players, not greedy little whiney shts, like most of these noob F2P are.
So as for all the laughing off the stage bit, watch out, you might trip and fall.
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.
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