Welcome to the world of F2P:
Rule 1: Someone has to pay
Rule 2: Someone has to pay
I'm still fine with it. And when you look how many people are really dumb throwing hundreds of dollars/euros/pounds out for nothing, I don't see why not.
Is it a great move? Definitely not. Is it understandable? Yepp.
No one has to agree with it, but moaning won't change anything.
STO has to make profit, or it will shut down.
I had never anything against selling NEW ships, with NEW layouts, NEW abilities and NEW skins through C-Store. Ie. there was much work in them, and I appreciated the work done with my money.
But the whole fleet ship situation is beyond GREEDY.
Those fleet ships are NOT NEW SHIPS, ALMOST NONE HAS NEW layouts, NO NEW abilities and NO NEW skins. What's more, some of the Fleet layouts are completely useless. They are unlocks only for ONE character and add only few numbers here and there, something a person can do in excel sheet in half day - and to be honest, some of the experienced players could do much better work at it.
Even tho I was buying ships in the past, I WONT BUY ANY fleet token.
Yep, Season six, it's like getting unplugged from the matrix, you can finally see how they were enslaving you.
Please stop adding that jaunty little 'cheers' to your posts because I'm translating it as 'TRIBBLE you'.
Although with the amount of money you'll be raking in with this new season I'm sure that the drinks will be on us the players, so maybe cheers is the right word to use.
lol, I laughed when I read the translating it as 'TRIBBLE you.' I laughed harder when I read 'that the drinks will be on us the players.'
Good reply, I agree with you
First the game is f2p. This is how it sucks you in. Second, it creates the "if I grind a bit I can play for free" illusion. This works for a time. Than, people smarten up realising that it is just easier to shell out a few bucks now and than. And you spend ten bucks here five bucks there, you never spend much, you don't even realise and you have spent a lot of cash. There have been examples of people playing hundreds of dollars for master keys, not realising that they did.
Also, this habit is strenghtened by the repetitive nature of the game (all MMOs do this).
And call me crazy, but I can see how people after working months on their bases, will happily shell out the cash to culminate their grind in that T5 +1 ship they always wanted.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
If you are looking to purchase a Fleet Ship that has a T5 C-Store version and you already own the T5 C-Store version, you only need to purchase 1 Fleet Ship Module (FSM) instead of 4. If you've purchased a non-T5 ship from the C-Store that has a Fleet Ship version, you will still need to purchase 4 FSMs.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Not sure if it has been answered yet.
So in short if I have a T5 C-Store version of the ship i only need 1 FSM in short that means that if i have for example The Defiant,Artimage, Nebula etc... bought from the C-Store i only need 1 FSM.
That's great BUT what about the other ships that don't have C-Store Equivalent and require 4 FSMs. Would I need to get 4 FSMs for each character or would they decrease once I get my first or something like that?
People will buy the tokens, but some people have a snapping point. Facebook games are a good example. They're free to play--but--so many of them raised the price for paid items to such exorbitant amounts and decreased the amount of free new items so much that it made a mockery of free to play. In another thread I pronounced my annoyance at all of the whining about Season 6.
That was before I found out that some new Fleet ships were going to cost not ONE module, but FOUR. That actually scared me. Where is PWE taking the game with this? People are going to be spending so much dilithium just to get to the point of unlocking certain ships that I can't believe they are going to charge up to $20 worth of Zen/dilith-converted-to-zen for these ships.
...and we thought lockbox spam was annoying. Oh yeah, and those are back in full force, by the way. Just when I thought the devs/powers that be had the sense to limit lockbox drops.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
You see, I have no problem with spending bucks to get something new and shiny (I bought many ships and skins). I appreciation the work of graphics, system engineers and programers to create something that enhances my game experience. I loathe the work of marketing thieves and greedy managers.
Those "new" fleet ships have no hard work behind them, except for raising some of their numbers in a database.
If for example on all fleet ships all ensigns would be turned universal, or they would have unique BO layout, or whatever, they would be worth it. Now you must really ask yourself if few thousands of hps and a console slot are really worth it.
For example. Years ago I bought Nebula refit. I loved the design and the console that boosted subsystem targeting and charged particle burst, and had some unique layout that offered better tanking.
Season 5 hit, the skills were changed and the once good console was changed so it provides only stealth detection.... so it screwed my purchase. The fleet variant of the ship adds nothing that would help that ship or enhance the game play - much like for most fleet ships. There is only handful of ships that really shine in their fleet versions.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
With the lockbox spam, they just moved the option to the more menu so you need to uncheck it again.
A day after I bought my Armitage, they released the Ship podcast and I was disappointed that my new purchase was already going to a lesser version compared to the fleet one. Then I started playing on Tribble and saw how much dilithium, resources and time was needed with Cryptic saying it might take a dedicated fleet 7 months to unlock the tier 5 shipyard, I started to not really care as much anymore about any of the fleet ships since I can play with my Armitage now on all my characters and do not have to grind all that time and can enjoy the game. I am sure if someone really counted all the dilithium that will be needed to get to unlock the tier 5 shipyard, you could have bought all the Zen store ships just buy using the Zen exchange.
The Ferengi Alliance has found masters here! Selling old stuff with different figures isn't a bad idea from a buisness perspective. Not much work, and good profits, but there are some points the dev missed :
- some of the "refit" ships are ugly as hell (let's say the saber). Who could pay for such a TRIBBLE?
- we can see that there is a problem if we already bought several ships. We have to pay twice for the same service?
Hopefully, the next c-store ships will match these fleet ships, otherwise, there is no point buying new designs anymore. And without any new design, we can predict that the game will die quietly. I also hope the management team will be smart enough to see that. :rolleyes:
What about the T5 fleet heavy escort? I own a thunderchild but not an armitage. Would I get a discount or not? I don't want a hangar bay and all that stuff, I just want a T5 thunderchild.
No you wont. But if you buy the heavy escort carrier, you can use the thunderchild skin on it. And use the hangar for shield healing drones only. No need to use fighters.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
If I am right, there has never been said that they will cost MUCH less, only that they will cost less. Only wishful thinking on our part might have added that MUCH.
You're right, Al never said 'much' cheaper. His exact words were 'its gonna be significantly cheaper' and 'a significant discount' I don't call $20 for a single character ship a significant discount from $20 that most T5 ships cost, or the $25 the newer ones cost. Especially once you factor in the single character vs account unlock disparity.
Still wondering if this applies only to the ships with the special abilities that you need to purchase in the c/z-store. I'm under the assumption that non-z-store ships will just be requiring fleet credits.
I logged in and took one look at the shipyard stuff and logged right the hell back out lol. Im sorry cryptic i donno if this comes from you or from PWE or both.
What i can say, if someone i worked for told me to do something that would harm the business i made, I would NOT do it, even if it meant my job. Because principals to me is more important then the next $ in my pocket, I could always get another job, how does one get integrity back?
While Cryptic is a business and thus has none of its own, its employees aught to. If they can honestly sit in their chairs and say $20 for a per character ship is great for the players by all means say it to our faces, with a straight one if you can manage it.
Im sure we will hear how all the money we spend on ships will be great for the game, um ya like all that lockbox money that helped fund new FE..... OH WAIT...
This company will tell you anything you want to hear, sad thing is its coming from the lips and fingers of a person. Donno bout you but I can make a living without making others feel cheated or lied to and hold onto my integrity and principals.
Im not high and mighty, im just a guy. Whats their excuse?
I have to grind forever, make enough fleet credits to even have the chance to earn the ability to buy a fleet ship and it will still cost me at least 20bux?
Seriously? /uninstall is my response. (been a member since the game launched).
-It's only 5$ if you want to upgrade a T5 ship you already bought from the C-Store.
-You don't have to pay a single dollar, instead spend a few more months grinding and buy Zen from the dilithium exchange.
And somehow people exist who think that 20 $ + a few months of grinding is an awesome deal for the most powerful ships in game.:rolleyes:
Of course since the new ships are exactly as powerful as an Oddy that comes without a special ability console that means that months of grinding equal less than 5 $. Today I spent 5 Euro. On Portal 2.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
You're probably right, having had a quick look at the various costs if you want a ship you're still better off grinding your Dil for Zen and buying from the Store, than dumping said Dil into the Starbase projects for FM.
Hm, I'm not that much into the fleet system yet, but it seems that spending dilithium on a project gives the same amount of fleet credits. And from what I can tell so far a fleet ship is 20.000 fleet credits +2000 zen. As far as I remember the fleet credits you earn are supposed to stay with you. So theoretically my characters could spend 20.000 dilithium on opened windows for our scrapyard and in a few months join another fleet that has unlocked everything and buy a ship there without spending anything else..... Fascinating.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
If your figure of 20,000 + the Zen Store ship is correct then I guess the figure without the Zen bought ship would be x4. so 80,000.
After only a day I already have about 30,000.
I'm kind of loyal to my Fleet however, I wouldn't want to start jumping around . . . and I suspect a fleet with a Tier 5 Starbase might get a bit protective of it.
Welcome to the world of F2P:
Rule 1: Someone has to pay
Rule 2: Someone has to pay
I'm still fine with it. And when you look how many people are really dumb throwing hundreds of dollars/euros/pounds out for nothing, I don't see why not.
Is it a great move? Definitely not. Is it understandable? Yepp.
No one has to agree with it, but moaning won't change anything.
STO has to make profit, or it will shut down.
Its rather simple.
I have cash on hand. If they made these ships available for purchase, I will use my cash on hand to buy one or two of them. If they don't make them available for Zen, they lose out on making a quick buck. That is what I am asking. Why do I need to wait until I hit the end of the game, so I can get the only ships I can obtain logically? Why not allow me to buy them now, so that the products I purchase can have a purpose?
I am a Free to Play player who uses a credit card to buy c-points (zen).
So, why am I being punished for freeloaders?
I buy c-points (zen) to avoid intense grinding.
I am their ideal casual consumer, and I am getting the short end of the stick.
I was so looking forward to the new season. What a let down on the ships. I just can?t see paying $20.00 for a ship per-a-character and grinding fleet marks.
Even if you own a T5 Z(C)-Store ship $5.00 is too much on top of the other stuff you have to grid out.
I can see having to spend money, its only fair to the people working to make this game great. But I think you have lost touch with reality.
Drop the price of a FSM to $1.50
Or
Keep the price of the FSM at $5.00 and make the ships an account wide unlock.
You gotta admire the sheer audacity of it. Well played CryPWE, you have learned well grasshopper. It's not just a money grab it's a money haul, they're using an excavator. Audacious!
lol... nice. We get an insane grind only to be greeted with a $25 cash outlay?
What happened to either grinding OR paying? I appreciate the need to turn a profit but if I have to whip out the credit card, then why do I need to grind away too?
lol... nice. We get an insane grind only to be greeted with a $25 cash outlay?
What happened to either grinding OR paying? I appreciate the need to turn a profit but if I have to whip out the credit card, then why do I need to grind away too?
It's not like I'd get a T5 Connie out of it...
Technically you don't need to grind for it:
20k fleet marks is about 20k dilithium
so 20k dilithium + 4 modules + a friend with a fleet that has a T(whatever tier you need for your ship) = profit.
Still wondering if this applies only to the ships with the special abilities that you need to purchase in the c/z-store. I'm under the assumption that non-z-store ships will just be requiring fleet credits.
It aplies only if you bought the exact same ship as a T5 C-Store account unlock no free be ships no lower tier versions.
And still you get left in the rain.
I unlocked almost every FED ship and most of the KDF's plus all ship costumes and still the number of ships where i get a discount is almost none existing.
For example i have unlocked all KDF Flightdeck Cruiser the Dacoit, Corsair and Marauder as a account unlock (the marauder is no freebe ship) and still i don't get a discount on the Corsair fleet refit.
So basicly i bought two ships for about 30$ to play with about 2 hours each leveling, and a T5 ship for another 25$ that gets a Fleet refit to still pay a fee of another 20$ for a single toon.
That makes a total of 75$ for a Fleet Corsair retrofit (aka fleet Marauder).
That is just a scam i am sorry to say it but that's what it is.
And no sweet words or they need to make money does change it.
I would have no problems if a single ship module would be around 50c to a dollar but 5$ a piece when you virtualy need for every single ship four of it because most don't qualify for the discount noway that's just a shot way off the target Cryptic.
Comments
Rule 1: Someone has to pay
Rule 2: Someone has to pay
I'm still fine with it. And when you look how many people are really dumb throwing hundreds of dollars/euros/pounds out for nothing, I don't see why not.
Is it a great move? Definitely not. Is it understandable? Yepp.
No one has to agree with it, but moaning won't change anything.
STO has to make profit, or it will shut down.
Yep, Season six, it's like getting unplugged from the matrix, you can finally see how they were enslaving you.
lol, I laughed when I read the translating it as 'TRIBBLE you.' I laughed harder when I read 'that the drinks will be on us the players.'
Good reply, I agree with you
Fixed it for you.
First the game is f2p. This is how it sucks you in. Second, it creates the "if I grind a bit I can play for free" illusion. This works for a time. Than, people smarten up realising that it is just easier to shell out a few bucks now and than. And you spend ten bucks here five bucks there, you never spend much, you don't even realise and you have spent a lot of cash. There have been examples of people playing hundreds of dollars for master keys, not realising that they did.
Also, this habit is strenghtened by the repetitive nature of the game (all MMOs do this).
And call me crazy, but I can see how people after working months on their bases, will happily shell out the cash to culminate their grind in that T5 +1 ship they always wanted.
Not sure if it has been answered yet.
So in short if I have a T5 C-Store version of the ship i only need 1 FSM in short that means that if i have for example The Defiant,Artimage, Nebula etc... bought from the C-Store i only need 1 FSM.
That's great BUT what about the other ships that don't have C-Store Equivalent and require 4 FSMs. Would I need to get 4 FSMs for each character or would they decrease once I get my first or something like that?
That was before I found out that some new Fleet ships were going to cost not ONE module, but FOUR. That actually scared me. Where is PWE taking the game with this? People are going to be spending so much dilithium just to get to the point of unlocking certain ships that I can't believe they are going to charge up to $20 worth of Zen/dilith-converted-to-zen for these ships.
...and we thought lockbox spam was annoying. Oh yeah, and those are back in full force, by the way. Just when I thought the devs/powers that be had the sense to limit lockbox drops.
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Those "new" fleet ships have no hard work behind them, except for raising some of their numbers in a database.
If for example on all fleet ships all ensigns would be turned universal, or they would have unique BO layout, or whatever, they would be worth it. Now you must really ask yourself if few thousands of hps and a console slot are really worth it.
For example. Years ago I bought Nebula refit. I loved the design and the console that boosted subsystem targeting and charged particle burst, and had some unique layout that offered better tanking.
Season 5 hit, the skills were changed and the once good console was changed so it provides only stealth detection.... so it screwed my purchase. The fleet variant of the ship adds nothing that would help that ship or enhance the game play - much like for most fleet ships. There is only handful of ships that really shine in their fleet versions.
A day after I bought my Armitage, they released the Ship podcast and I was disappointed that my new purchase was already going to a lesser version compared to the fleet one. Then I started playing on Tribble and saw how much dilithium, resources and time was needed with Cryptic saying it might take a dedicated fleet 7 months to unlock the tier 5 shipyard, I started to not really care as much anymore about any of the fleet ships since I can play with my Armitage now on all my characters and do not have to grind all that time and can enjoy the game. I am sure if someone really counted all the dilithium that will be needed to get to unlock the tier 5 shipyard, you could have bought all the Zen store ships just buy using the Zen exchange.
- some of the "refit" ships are ugly as hell (let's say the saber). Who could pay for such a TRIBBLE?
- we can see that there is a problem if we already bought several ships. We have to pay twice for the same service?
Hopefully, the next c-store ships will match these fleet ships, otherwise, there is no point buying new designs anymore. And without any new design, we can predict that the game will die quietly. I also hope the management team will be smart enough to see that. :rolleyes:
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
You're right, Al never said 'much' cheaper. His exact words were 'its gonna be significantly cheaper' and 'a significant discount' I don't call $20 for a single character ship a significant discount from $20 that most T5 ships cost, or the $25 the newer ones cost. Especially once you factor in the single character vs account unlock disparity.
Listen here: http://priorityonepodcast.com/wordpress/priority-one-episode-86-supplemental-the-shipyard-with-al-rivera/
What i can say, if someone i worked for told me to do something that would harm the business i made, I would NOT do it, even if it meant my job. Because principals to me is more important then the next $ in my pocket, I could always get another job, how does one get integrity back?
While Cryptic is a business and thus has none of its own, its employees aught to. If they can honestly sit in their chairs and say $20 for a per character ship is great for the players by all means say it to our faces, with a straight one if you can manage it.
Im sure we will hear how all the money we spend on ships will be great for the game, um ya like all that lockbox money that helped fund new FE..... OH WAIT...
This company will tell you anything you want to hear, sad thing is its coming from the lips and fingers of a person. Donno bout you but I can make a living without making others feel cheated or lied to and hold onto my integrity and principals.
Im not high and mighty, im just a guy. Whats their excuse?
Seriously? /uninstall is my response. (been a member since the game launched).
-It's only 5$ if you want to upgrade a T5 ship you already bought from the C-Store.
-You don't have to pay a single dollar, instead spend a few more months grinding and buy Zen from the dilithium exchange.
And somehow people exist who think that 20 $ + a few months of grinding is an awesome deal for the most powerful ships in game.:rolleyes:
Of course since the new ships are exactly as powerful as an Oddy that comes without a special ability console that means that months of grinding equal less than 5 $. Today I spent 5 Euro. On Portal 2.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
If your figure of 20,000 + the Zen Store ship is correct then I guess the figure without the Zen bought ship would be x4. so 80,000.
After only a day I already have about 30,000.
I'm kind of loyal to my Fleet however, I wouldn't want to start jumping around . . . and I suspect a fleet with a Tier 5 Starbase might get a bit protective of it.
We should be used to it by now, they didn't bother to tell us any of this on the podcasts either.
Related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission
... and they wonder why they get all the forum hate... really?
that is all.
I have cash on hand. If they made these ships available for purchase, I will use my cash on hand to buy one or two of them. If they don't make them available for Zen, they lose out on making a quick buck. That is what I am asking. Why do I need to wait until I hit the end of the game, so I can get the only ships I can obtain logically? Why not allow me to buy them now, so that the products I purchase can have a purpose?
I am a Free to Play player who uses a credit card to buy c-points (zen).
So, why am I being punished for freeloaders?
I buy c-points (zen) to avoid intense grinding.
I am their ideal casual consumer, and I am getting the short end of the stick.
Even if you own a T5 Z(C)-Store ship $5.00 is too much on top of the other stuff you have to grid out.
I can see having to spend money, its only fair to the people working to make this game great. But I think you have lost touch with reality.
Drop the price of a FSM to $1.50
Or
Keep the price of the FSM at $5.00 and make the ships an account wide unlock.
Please be fair to your customers.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
What happened to either grinding OR paying? I appreciate the need to turn a profit but if I have to whip out the credit card, then why do I need to grind away too?
It's not like I'd get a T5 Connie out of it...
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
Exactly my feelings too... what's the point of spending an ENORMOUS amount of resources only to be slapped with a $25 tax.
And the copy/paste "And as always, you can sell Dilithium on the Dilithium Exchange for ZEN" needs to stop being posted. That doesn't help...
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
Technically you don't need to grind for it:
20k fleet marks is about 20k dilithium
so 20k dilithium + 4 modules + a friend with a fleet that has a T(whatever tier you need for your ship) = profit.
It aplies only if you bought the exact same ship as a T5 C-Store account unlock no free be ships no lower tier versions.
And still you get left in the rain.
I unlocked almost every FED ship and most of the KDF's plus all ship costumes and still the number of ships where i get a discount is almost none existing.
For example i have unlocked all KDF Flightdeck Cruiser the Dacoit, Corsair and Marauder as a account unlock (the marauder is no freebe ship) and still i don't get a discount on the Corsair fleet refit.
So basicly i bought two ships for about 30$ to play with about 2 hours each leveling, and a T5 ship for another 25$ that gets a Fleet refit to still pay a fee of another 20$ for a single toon.
That makes a total of 75$ for a Fleet Corsair retrofit (aka fleet Marauder).
That is just a scam i am sorry to say it but that's what it is.
And no sweet words or they need to make money does change it.
I would have no problems if a single ship module would be around 50c to a dollar but 5$ a piece when you virtualy need for every single ship four of it because most don't qualify for the discount noway that's just a shot way off the target Cryptic.