Because EPTS is not usable on others - and at while it does mathematically make a difference, in practice it does not seem to do much of one for self-healing.
EPtS's shield heal is pretty good, but its resistance bonus is the awesome part. You really should be using it, especially if you're a tactical captain - you don't have the luxury of those lovely Eng Captain abilities.
Also, you have 3 team abilities. You should replace Engineering Team 1 with EPtS1, IMO. And, if you can, squeeze in a second EPtS. Keeping that up 100% of the time is very beneficial.
EPtS's shield heal is pretty good, but its resistance bonus is the awesome part. You really should be using it, especially if you're a tactical captain - you don't have the luxury of those lovely Eng Captain abilities.
Also, you have 3 team abilities. You should replace Engineering Team 1 with EPtS1, IMO. And, if you can, squeeze in a second EPtS. Keeping that up 100% of the time is very beneficial.
Stop it right now, keep your common sense and logic to yourself!
EPtS's shield heal is pretty good, but its resistance bonus is the awesome part. You really should be using it, especially if you're a tactical captain - you don't have the luxury of those lovely Eng Captain abilities.
I know. I even knew before this thread about the resistance bonus - my first toon was an engineer, after all, and when I command cruisers, they use EPT3x2.
It's a concious decision, and it has been discussed a lot in this thread. But from my tests up to now, I don't seem to necessarily need EPTS with the MACO Mk XII shields. I have even tested both an epts1 and an epts1+2 build, but all in all, I feel I am better off with another hull heal that I can use on myself and others.
Especially with the improvements of transphasic torpedoes that are coming up (which are also the reason why I am testing Delta Flyers together with the Runabouts now).
Oh and yes, 3 team abilities. I feel I am more flexible that way.
And your tests are all 1v1 tests. How do you think your currently survivability scales with your attackers? Currently, you live against a single enemy. That's great. (Well, it's okay at least, there are people that die to a single enemy - sometims with 3 shield facings still in perfect health).
What will scale better: The ability that gives you 20+ % shield resistance, or the ability that gives you what - 1,000 points in healing or so?
Ah, no, I also do a lot of Arena and C&H. But according to the people on these forums, the guys I fight there are all super-dumb. *shrug*
How do you think your currently survivability scales with your attackers? Currently, you live against a single enemy. That's great. (Well, it's okay at least, there are people that die to a single enemy - sometims with 3 shield facings still in perfect health).
What will scale better: The ability that gives you 20+ % shield resistance, or the ability that gives you what - 1,000 points in healing or so?
in my experience, it does not really matter - the Tolerance is harder to cripple than any given escort and most other carriers. They might destroy my ship once or twice and then decide that it just takes too much time that should be spent on killing two others who have been killing them in the meantime (unless my team coordinates badly and theirs superbly, in which case they can afford the luxury to spread kills evenly). I then becomea healer with some dps potential in bursts, and that usually hurts them even more.
Yesterday, for example, I got disconnected from an Arena match, and when I reconnected, I rejoined the same fight, and it had become a 4v4 (with me counted in) from a previous 3v3. It had been even when I left, we were loosing when I came back, and won the battle something like 15:5 eventually.
Economically speaking, the opportunity cost of actually destroying the Tolerance is normally just too high to do it often, and hunting ships that are easier to kill becomes more difficult as long as my team works together, because I can use almost that same tanking power for the benefit of another ship (which will also have a few self-heals). And that while doing actual DPS, believe it or not.
Sure, prolongued focus fire from three escorts will destroy any ship, the Tolerance as much as any other. But for that, having EPTS will not buy more than a few seconds.
Please note that I totally understand what you are saying, but I am referrring specific combat experience. Yes, those must be all total noobs, I hear the people here say. While I would not call them such, it is possible that with the awesomeness that so many people here claim implicitly on both sides, I would not stand a chance. But that would have to be proven, please... which hasn't happened yet.
I know. I even knew before this thread about the resistance bonus - my first toon was an engineer, after all, and when I command cruisers, they use EPT3x2.
Are you still doing this with your cruisers? If so, stop. To put it bluntly, it's selfish for a cruiser and a huge waste of its potential.
It's a concious decision, and it has been discussed a lot in this thread. But from my tests up to now, I don't seem to necessarily need EPTS with the MACO Mk XII shields. I have even tested both an epts1 and an epts1+2 build, but all in all, I feel I am better off with another hull heal that I can use on myself and others.
I would consider EPtS to be a must have for any ship in PvP (even PvE). It's just one of those things, and , really, it's rather silly to not use it... Without it, you're not going to last very long if you're under fire from an escort. BTW, what exactly is your ship's focus? It appears to be tanky and have the ability to decently heal your team-mates, though this is more suitable for an Eng Captain...So, I'm a little unsure of what your focus is.
Oh and yes, 3 team abilities. I feel I am more flexible that way.
TBH, with the cooldown issues, it's going to be quite the opposite of flexible. I would recommend keeping your TT1 and ST2, but switch out that ET1 for EPtS1. Besides, you've already got a decent amount of hull healing from HE3 and AtSIF2.
Also, I'd switch out the BO2 for FAW2. BO2 is nothing special when used with single beams. You're likely to find more use out of FAW, which is also great at spam clearing (almost a must have with all the carriers around these days).
Are you still doing this with your cruisers? If so, stop. To put it bluntly, it's selfish for a cruiser and a huge waste of its potential.
The assault cruiser that I used as a tactical did quite a lot of destruction. It was a tank, not a healer. But we digress.
I would consider EPtS to be a must have for any ship in PvP (even PvE).[...]
And you are definitely not alone with that. But thing is: Contrary to your prognosis, my ship does well in Arena and C&H. Even more so since I switched to the MACO Mk XII shield. (Edit: Which was, by the way, an advice from this thread that I tested and which passed my tests. It's not as if I was not looking into things.)
TBH, with the cooldown issues, it's going to be quite the opposite of flexible.
Well, it apparently works, alternating between the teams.
Also, I'd switch out the BO2 for FAW2. BO2 is nothing special when used with single beams. [...]
It does some mini-spike DPS that, when combined with the tactical captain powers, is usually irritating enough to get someone's attention. It is also good for finishing off ships that have been beaten to low shields and low hull and are about to recover.
The assault cruiser that I used as a tactical did quite a lot of destruction. It was a tank, not a healer. But we digress.
And you are definitely not alone with that. But thing is: Contrary to your prognosis, my ship does well in Arena and C&H. Even more so since I switched to the MACO Mk XII shield.
Well, it apparently works, alternating between the teams.
It does some mini-spike DPS that, when combined with the tactical captain powers, is usually irritating enough to get someone's attention. It is also good for finishing off ships that have been beaten to low shields and low hull and are about to recover.
But please also read my previous post.
Hmm. I suppose I'll just have to see it in battle and decide for myself.
Edit: Are you in-game? Would you like to set up a challenge? I'm curious to see what it can do.
Okay, then let's gather ten people, find a time and try. I am usually available from about 18:00 Middle European Summer Time to 23.O0 MEST on workdays, which is 9:00 to 14:00 Pacific Standard Time (and 12:00 to 17:00 EST). I could, if no other time can be found, also be availabe from 05:00 to 07:00 MEST (20:00 to 22:00 PST or 23:00 to 01:00 EST).
Okay, then let's gather ten people, find a time and try. I am usually available from about 18:00 Middle European Summer Time to 23.O0 MEST on workdays, which is 9:00 to 14:00 Pacific Standard Time (and 12:00 to 17:00 EST). I could, if no other time can be found, also be availabe from 05:00 to 07:00 MEST (20:00 to 22:00 PST or 23:00 to 01:00 EST).
I dont really see the point of this. Whenever I see you in a PVP game with your dyson-kitty-hoover you go pooof so quickly I dont even laugh about it anymore. Your build does not stand up to any kind of focus fire.
I dont really see the point of this. Whenever I see you in a PVP game with your dyson-kitty-hoover you go pooof so quickly I dont even laugh about it anymore. Your build does not stand up to any kind of focus fire.
[...]
Then maybe I am unaware of some "I win" buttons. But as far as my basic math sais, focus fire from three escorts can only be survived for a very short time, such as the runtime of TT plus that of RSP plus maybe half a dozen seconds. That is also true when you use a cruiser with EPTS3x2.
Then maybe I am unaware of some "I win" buttons. But as far as my basic math sais, focus fire from three escorts can only be survived for a very short time, such as the runtime of TT plus that of RSP plus maybe half a dozen seconds. That is also true when you use a cruiser with EPTS3x2.
So the point of your build is??????? 1 v 1? Any tank run right be it carrier or not can tank any escort 1 v 1. What's the point in having a tank if you can't dish out the dps?
We have players in our fleet and and others who can tank, heal and throw out sufficient dps to be useful. All you will do is be left alone in a 5 v 5 by the other team because:
A. There is no point in killing you because you are no threat
B. Other members of your team will be easier targets because they will realise you are too selfish in your build to heal others making them easy targets.
The other thing is 1 v 1 is a different build to a team build. Say you win 90% of your 1 v 1 battles, you enter an arena, your individualistic build will be your team weakness.
How is this thread not closed yet mod's on summer break I think this thread has been off topic from the get go. This has turned into a undercover bump thread by the OP can we get this thread closed already. So we can move on to things like how OP the BoP is or why this or that will end PvP as we know it.
if team work is the answer to that question, how would someone observing exploding a ship under three such strikes prove that that ship's build is bad? No, it would only prove that that team's teamwork is bad. Which happens with PUGs.
Don't think I said that. I asked a question. What is the goal of your build.
[...]
I have explained that many times. But again: It is a healer/tank that does more dps than usual carriers due to its captain, meaning it can contribute at least 51% to what is required for a kill. As you need two ships for destroying one capable target anyway, 51% is actually the number you want to have. And that it does in most 5v5 games. (Got that last part?;) )
Think of all the possible builds, from the lowliest zombie cruiser to the highest glass cannon escort, as drawn on a graph, with dps being the x-axis and durability being the y-axis. You will then find the zombie in the upper left corner and the glass cannon in the lower right corner, and all other possible builds roughly around a line drawn through these two, and somewhere in between. My tactical carrier is in the left half of that graph, but closer to the center than it would be with an Engineer or Sci captain.
Actually, there is a way to survive 3 alphas simultaneously and come out on top. Seen it done to me and I've done it myself.
[...]
I have explained that many times. But again: It is a healer/tank that does more dps than usual carriers due to its captain, meaning it can contribute at least 51% to what is required for a kill. As you need two ships for destroying one capable target anyway, 51% is actually the number you want to have. And that it does in most 5v5 games. (Got that last part?;) )
Think of all the possible builds, from the lowliest zombie cruiser to the highest glass cannon escort, as drawn on a graph, with dps being the x-axis and durability being the y-axis. You will then find the zombie in the upper left corner and the glass cannon in the lower right corner, and all other possible builds roughly around a line drawn through these two, and somewhere in between. My tactical carrier is in the left half of that graph, but closer to the center than it would be with an Engineer or Sci captain.
How?
Ask Tuq Hegh'ta fleet. They are some of the best at it. If I'm in my escort, I have to think twice before I attack most of their ships.
Okay, then let's gather ten people, find a time and try. I am usually available from about 18:00 Middle European Summer Time to 23.O0 MEST on workdays, which is 9:00 to 14:00 Pacific Standard Time (and 12:00 to 17:00 EST). I could, if no other time can be found, also be availabe from 05:00 to 07:00 MEST (20:00 to 22:00 PST or 23:00 to 01:00 EST).
Unless I miscalculated the time zones, it's not in the time frame. Today, i will also be on about two hours later than usual due to a business dinner. But after that, sure!
Comments
EPtS's shield heal is pretty good, but its resistance bonus is the awesome part. You really should be using it, especially if you're a tactical captain - you don't have the luxury of those lovely Eng Captain abilities.
Also, you have 3 team abilities. You should replace Engineering Team 1 with EPtS1, IMO. And, if you can, squeeze in a second EPtS. Keeping that up 100% of the time is very beneficial.
Stop it right now, keep your common sense and logic to yourself!
I know. I even knew before this thread about the resistance bonus - my first toon was an engineer, after all, and when I command cruisers, they use EPT3x2.
It's a concious decision, and it has been discussed a lot in this thread. But from my tests up to now, I don't seem to necessarily need EPTS with the MACO Mk XII shields. I have even tested both an epts1 and an epts1+2 build, but all in all, I feel I am better off with another hull heal that I can use on myself and others.
Especially with the improvements of transphasic torpedoes that are coming up (which are also the reason why I am testing Delta Flyers together with the Runabouts now).
Oh and yes, 3 team abilities. I feel I am more flexible that way.
What will scale better: The ability that gives you 20+ % shield resistance, or the ability that gives you what - 1,000 points in healing or so?
Actually why do I bother, I read the rest of the thread.
And I enjoyed blowing up the USS Ignorance ... eh wait, Tolerance.
Ah, no, I also do a lot of Arena and C&H. But according to the people on these forums, the guys I fight there are all super-dumb. *shrug*
in my experience, it does not really matter - the Tolerance is harder to cripple than any given escort and most other carriers. They might destroy my ship once or twice and then decide that it just takes too much time that should be spent on killing two others who have been killing them in the meantime (unless my team coordinates badly and theirs superbly, in which case they can afford the luxury to spread kills evenly). I then becomea healer with some dps potential in bursts, and that usually hurts them even more.
Yesterday, for example, I got disconnected from an Arena match, and when I reconnected, I rejoined the same fight, and it had become a 4v4 (with me counted in) from a previous 3v3. It had been even when I left, we were loosing when I came back, and won the battle something like 15:5 eventually.
Economically speaking, the opportunity cost of actually destroying the Tolerance is normally just too high to do it often, and hunting ships that are easier to kill becomes more difficult as long as my team works together, because I can use almost that same tanking power for the benefit of another ship (which will also have a few self-heals). And that while doing actual DPS, believe it or not.
Sure, prolongued focus fire from three escorts will destroy any ship, the Tolerance as much as any other. But for that, having EPTS will not buy more than a few seconds.
Please note that I totally understand what you are saying, but I am referrring specific combat experience. Yes, those must be all total noobs, I hear the people here say. While I would not call them such, it is possible that with the awesomeness that so many people here claim implicitly on both sides, I would not stand a chance. But that would have to be proven, please... which hasn't happened yet.
Are you still doing this with your cruisers? If so, stop. To put it bluntly, it's selfish for a cruiser and a huge waste of its potential.
I would consider EPtS to be a must have for any ship in PvP (even PvE). It's just one of those things, and , really, it's rather silly to not use it...
TBH, with the cooldown issues, it's going to be quite the opposite of flexible. I would recommend keeping your TT1 and ST2, but switch out that ET1 for EPtS1. Besides, you've already got a decent amount of hull healing from HE3 and AtSIF2.
Also, I'd switch out the BO2 for FAW2. BO2 is nothing special when used with single beams. You're likely to find more use out of FAW, which is also great at spam clearing (almost a must have with all the carriers around these days).
The assault cruiser that I used as a tactical did quite a lot of destruction. It was a tank, not a healer. But we digress.
And you are definitely not alone with that. But thing is: Contrary to your prognosis, my ship does well in Arena and C&H. Even more so since I switched to the MACO Mk XII shield. (Edit: Which was, by the way, an advice from this thread that I tested and which passed my tests. It's not as if I was not looking into things.)
Well, it apparently works, alternating between the teams.
It does some mini-spike DPS that, when combined with the tactical captain powers, is usually irritating enough to get someone's attention. It is also good for finishing off ships that have been beaten to low shields and low hull and are about to recover.
But please also read my previous post.
Hmm. I suppose I'll just have to see it in battle and decide for myself.
Edit: Are you in-game? Would you like to set up a challenge? I'm curious to see what it can do.
me too, me too *raises arm* pick me .......
The thought of a tactical carrier seams a bit ludicrous to me. But who knows. I never tryed it out myself.
What does this mean? RPvP?
The more emotional ones tend to attack me (allowing me to do some tanking) if that happens.
Apart from that, sometimes dpv is more important than dps. IMHO.
I dont really see the point of this. Whenever I see you in a PVP game with your dyson-kitty-hoover you go pooof so quickly I dont even laugh about it anymore. Your build does not stand up to any kind of focus fire.
1v1? Good for you.
Sorry.
Then maybe I am unaware of some "I win" buttons. But as far as my basic math sais, focus fire from three escorts can only be survived for a very short time, such as the runtime of TT plus that of RSP plus maybe half a dozen seconds. That is also true when you use a cruiser with EPTS3x2.
So the point of your build is??????? 1 v 1? Any tank run right be it carrier or not can tank any escort 1 v 1. What's the point in having a tank if you can't dish out the dps?
We have players in our fleet and and others who can tank, heal and throw out sufficient dps to be useful. All you will do is be left alone in a 5 v 5 by the other team because:
A. There is no point in killing you because you are no threat
B. Other members of your team will be easier targets because they will realise you are too selfish in your build to heal others making them easy targets.
The other thing is 1 v 1 is a different build to a team build. Say you win 90% of your 1 v 1 battles, you enter an arena, your individualistic build will be your team weakness.
Target just got bigger....lol
One step at a time. Are you saying you know a way how a ship could survive three simultaneous alpha strikes?
HUM maybe that thing called team work.......bet that waht naz says too.
Don't think I said that. I asked a question. What is the goal of your build.
Your response should start with "I want my ship to accomplish........"
Actually, there is a way to survive 3 alphas simultaneously and come out on top. Seen it done to me and I've done it myself.
No point in telling you because you know better as the general jist of this thread is going.
I have explained that many times. But again: It is a healer/tank that does more dps than usual carriers due to its captain, meaning it can contribute at least 51% to what is required for a kill. As you need two ships for destroying one capable target anyway, 51% is actually the number you want to have. And that it does in most 5v5 games. (Got that last part?;) )
Think of all the possible builds, from the lowliest zombie cruiser to the highest glass cannon escort, as drawn on a graph, with dps being the x-axis and durability being the y-axis. You will then find the zombie in the upper left corner and the glass cannon in the lower right corner, and all other possible builds roughly around a line drawn through these two, and somewhere in between. My tactical carrier is in the left half of that graph, but closer to the center than it would be with an Engineer or Sci captain.
How?
RAWR!
Ask Tuq Hegh'ta fleet. They are some of the best at it. If I'm in my escort, I have to think twice before I attack most of their ships.
Anyway, I will just open a new thread about it.
Really? Really............? Sounds like you just described yourself.
Hmm, can we do it, like, right now?
You shouldn't be doing this.
Unless I miscalculated the time zones, it's not in the time frame. Today, i will also be on about two hours later than usual due to a business dinner. But after that, sure!