Guys, please don't discuss things that are counter to the OP's personal world views. He's carefully crafted them in spite of reality and he's ok with that. You should be too.
You know what, really, honestly, kudos for trying and sticking to a tac carrier.
I fly an outdated bop with a comm + lt sci, lt comm eng, and 1 single lt tac, and I have fun with it.
I love unconventional builds, and it really is more the pilot being in tune with his ship and his loadout.
Ah, yeah, but there are things that work better than others. The sustained DPS on my current weapons load, for example, is 25%-50% higher than that of any of the firing arcs of the weapons loadout in post #1.
Still, I would be infinitely more noobish than I currently am now if I discarded all the info I've gotten with fellow captains over time.
Well, obviously I don't do that either. On the other hand, note that even Mavairo was wrong about at least one thing (the tachyon detection field). The message behind this being: Know and understand what you are doing, and test everything yourself. Don't follow any orders on how to change your build.
Ah, yeah, but there are things that work better than others. The sustained DPS on my current weapons load, for example, is 25%-50% higher than that of any of the firing arcs of the weapons loadout in post #1.
Well, obviously I don't do that either. On the other hand, note that even Mavairo was wrong about at least one thing (the tachyon detection field). The message behind this being: Know and understand what you are doing, and test everything yourself. Don't follow any orders on how to change your build.
I'd have Mav on my side compared to you any time of the day in a match. At least with him I'll know he'll be thinking of team play instead of thinking my ship is awesome look at me.
Also, his posts at least help others unlike your "look at my ship - how awesome" thread. When given advice you say thanks but I know better. Get real dude.
You haven't been paying much attention to this thread, hm? ^^
You really can't blame people....
Tactical is just so not fit to be in a carrier. :P
Seriously you don't have the weapon slots... you don't have the tac boffs... to synergize with Alpha and go down fighting... and then you have fit it with sci powers that don't at least gain a dmg bonus from the tac skills....
I have made tactical sci ships work... you use sci powers that are dmg boosted by alpha and go down... You have been loading CPB and heals... so yes the question is Why a tac exactly... it doesn't seem to add anything accept the squish.
Doing what everybody does is boring. Building a max DPS escort is not only easy (I mean, it's basic math), but has also been done many times. Besides, I really don't like escorts, and yes, I have commanded a few, even with the two toons that I played to max and then deleted (1 tac, 1 sci).
See, this is what really annoys me about the PvP community: While there are many helpful spirits, there are also so many people whose only contribution is a mixture of arrogance, narrow-mindedness and a certain apparent insecurity that makes them ridicule people who do other things than they do.
Maybe so, but there is a reason everybody is doing it: it simply works.
It can be fun to fly a ship with an unusual setup, but most likely it won't be the most effective thing you can do with your captain. So any request for comments on your build will ultimately run into the problem that improving your effectiveness in pvp means switching to a different ship or captain type or running a boring setup.
So maybe you don't want to maximise your effectiveness for pvp and are more interested in maximising your fun. This is a valid goal, but as you can see in this thread it is really difficult to give advice on that because everyone has a different opinion on what fun is.
Maybe so, but there is a reason everybody is doing it: it simply works.
Sure it does.
It can be fun to fly a ship with an unusual setup, but most likely it won't be the most effective thing you can do with your captain. So any request for comments on your build will ultimately run into the problem that improving your effectiveness in pvp means switching to a different ship or captain type or running a boring setup.
So maybe you don't want to maximise your effectiveness for pvp and are more interested in maximising your fun. This is a valid goal, but as you can see in this thread it is really difficult to give advice on that because everyone has a different opinion on what fun is.
Or I could be wanting to maximize my effectiveness with certain additional limits imposed, such as "having carrier commands and pets to use them on".
Doing what everybody does is boring. Building a max DPS escort is not only easy (I mean, it's basic math), but has also been done many times. Besides, I really don't like escorts, and yes, I have commanded a few, even with the two toons that I played to max and then deleted (1 tac, 1 sci).
See, this is what really annoys me about the PvP community: While there are many helpful spirits, there are also so many people whose only contribution is a mixture of arrogance, narrow-mindedness and a certain apparent insecurity that makes them ridicule people who do other things than they do.
Lol...
If memory serves, I was one of the first posts on this thread and it was a constructive post. Before calling anyone arrogant, perhaps you should go back and read some of your responses to ppls suggestions. I get it though...like A few others in this game (cough*mickey*cough) your an attention whor*, but unlike those ppl, you dont really have the skill to back up your words...now go home and get your shine box
And just to clarify, how many toons do you CURRENTLY have at VA? What types of toons are they and what are there names? I'm STILL guessing you don't have an engy to at least try in a carrier
If memory serves, I was one of the first posts on this thread and it was a constructive post. Before calling anyone arrogant, perhaps you should go back and read some of your responses to ppls suggestions.
Oh, I do remember your post. It was basically "wtf are you doing, do something else, and what the other guy above me said".
I get it though...like A few others in this game (cough*mickey*cough) your an attention whor*, but unlike those ppl, you dont really have the skill to back up your words...
Logimo, since you generally disregarded my advice or even gave straight up wrong counter advice and still desire to do 1v1s I propose two things.
Firstly we should do a 1v1, I've been flying an Excel lately but I'll jump back in my Atrox just for you.
Realistically we will likely never kill eachother unless you seriously just suck, we can just shoot at eachother until one of us DC's, has to use the bathroom, or something.
Secondly I'd propose a 2v2 or 3v3 with us on opposing teams with 1 or 2 friendly escorts being our lovely little "parasites", this way hopefully something actually dies and you can further learn the value of the healing, debuffing, etc present and how an Atrox supports a group.
To put it bluntly, my Atrox can and will tank you pretty much forever. Barring subnucs it can generally tank afew people nearly forever. And this highlights the issue, even escorts on there good day, spike brel's with perfect alphas, most of them with crits can usually get me to 20% hull or so, without crits I'm usually staying above 50-70% hull, and I usually drop HE, Aux2Sif, and TT right afterwards if they weren't already up more or less nulling out there alpha.
I have no clue how you can even hope to do better than that. I'll even take any realistic handicap you want such as not directly targeting your fighters so you keep more damage around or something.
The simple fact is, you just can't do enough damage. The sad part is I'm not even that great at tanking.
Conversely I've accepted the fact I can't do damage, its a limitation of the ship and its design.
Instead I focus on setting up my allies to blow things up, and making sure they live so they can blow things up.
The Atrox is not an RSV, you don't have the tac consoles, tac boffs, manueverability, or much of anything else needed to effectively run great dps from a sci boat.
Most good DPS setups for Sci revolve around the front 90, usually with DBB's and turrets, or torps and turrets. They keep there nose on the target all the time and try to shred a facing while keeping the ship as disabled as possible so they can't stop them from shedding a facing.
An atrox can't replicate this. Its to slow, and lacks the slots to fit it properly.
I am completely fine with having fun, I consider my excel my fun ship (its a blast lol), but I also except I would be strictly better in my excel as a tac because its focusing on spamming CRF's for turret spam.
If you want to fly a tac carrier by all means go for it, but to remotely argue that it is as effect, on par, or anywhere within the same realm of usefulness as a more properly piloted carrier I believe the term we'd be search for to describe this is "delusional".
The sad part is, the atrox even on its best of days is rather "average".
PS, we'll have to schedule our fights for the weekend, as generally I don't play much on weekdays except rather late in the day
This has taken a while to get here, I'm impressed at how long it kept an air of civility. I got trolled SO hard in one of his first threads. It was a long con. He let it build up, acting like he was truly interested in learning about STO for a while, only to explain why anyone with a comment was a fool.
Logimo, since you generally disregarded my advice or even gave straight up wrong counter advice and still desire to do 1v1s I propose two things.
I am a fan of sapere aude. Words must be very convincing (with numbers and stuff mixed into it) to convince me. Hard, cold data. That is why battles convince me, and if you have followed this thread, the battles that occured against rally good people did make me change my build.
Firstly we should do a 1v1, I've been flying an Excel lately but I'll jump back in my Atrox just for you.
Realistically we will likely never kill eachother unless you seriously just suck, we can just shoot at eachother until one of us DC's, has to use the bathroom, or something.
Sure, why not.
[...]PS, we'll have to schedule our fights for the weekend, as generally I don't play much on weekdays except rather late in the day
Comments
Let's not discuss this further. Opinions about the way MMO group PvP is generally designed to be are certainly out of place in this thread.
I guess I'll have to test ET1 vs EPTS1 further and will report back when done.
I fly an outdated bop with a comm + lt sci, lt comm eng, and 1 single lt tac, and I have fun with it.
I love unconventional builds, and it really is more the pilot being in tune with his ship and his loadout.
Still, I would be infinitely more noobish than I currently am now if I discarded all the info I've gotten with fellow captains over time.
Ah, yeah, but there are things that work better than others. The sustained DPS on my current weapons load, for example, is 25%-50% higher than that of any of the firing arcs of the weapons loadout in post #1.
Well, obviously I don't do that either.
See my sig below
I love the last string of text
I'd have Mav on my side compared to you any time of the day in a match. At least with him I'll know he'll be thinking of team play instead of thinking my ship is awesome look at me.
Also, his posts at least help others unlike your "look at my ship - how awesome" thread. When given advice you say thanks but I know better. Get real dude.
Lmao @ sonic's sig.
I think you may have been missing the point.
about as good as any heal boat running full weapons power
...that is buffed by APA, GDF, TF, and debuffing the enemy with FOMM.
with your two beams and torp, Roger that
You really can't blame people....
Tactical is just so not fit to be in a carrier. :P
Seriously you don't have the weapon slots... you don't have the tac boffs... to synergize with Alpha and go down fighting... and then you have fit it with sci powers that don't at least gain a dmg bonus from the tac skills....
I have made tactical sci ships work... you use sci powers that are dmg boosted by alpha and go down... You have been loading CPB and heals... so yes the question is Why a tac exactly... it doesn't seem to add anything accept the squish.
True or false soph?
False.
Doing what everybody does is boring. Building a max DPS escort is not only easy (I mean, it's basic math), but has also been done many times. Besides, I really don't like escorts, and yes, I have commanded a few, even with the two toons that I played to max and then deleted (1 tac, 1 sci).
See, this is what really annoys me about the PvP community: While there are many helpful spirits, there are also so many people whose only contribution is a mixture of arrogance, narrow-mindedness and a certain apparent insecurity that makes them ridicule people who do other things than they do.
Sir, you don't pilot a ship, you command or captain it
So true. This is not a space fighter game, after all. A little bit more immersion won't hurt anyone.
It can be fun to fly a ship with an unusual setup, but most likely it won't be the most effective thing you can do with your captain. So any request for comments on your build will ultimately run into the problem that improving your effectiveness in pvp means switching to a different ship or captain type or running a boring setup.
So maybe you don't want to maximise your effectiveness for pvp and are more interested in maximising your fun. This is a valid goal, but as you can see in this thread it is really difficult to give advice on that because everyone has a different opinion on what fun is.
Sure it does.
Or I could be wanting to maximize my effectiveness with certain additional limits imposed, such as "having carrier commands and pets to use them on".
Lol...
If memory serves, I was one of the first posts on this thread and it was a constructive post. Before calling anyone arrogant, perhaps you should go back and read some of your responses to ppls suggestions. I get it though...like A few others in this game (cough*mickey*cough) your an attention whor*, but unlike those ppl, you dont really have the skill to back up your words...now go home and get your shine box
And just to clarify, how many toons do you CURRENTLY have at VA? What types of toons are they and what are there names? I'm STILL guessing you don't have an engy to at least try in a carrier
Oh, I do remember your post. It was basically "wtf are you doing, do something else, and what the other guy above me said".
Prove me that you know better. Fight me.
Regading your question, just click the link.
This was your first response to advice in this thread...
Firstly we should do a 1v1, I've been flying an Excel lately but I'll jump back in my Atrox just for you.
Realistically we will likely never kill eachother unless you seriously just suck, we can just shoot at eachother until one of us DC's, has to use the bathroom, or something.
Secondly I'd propose a 2v2 or 3v3 with us on opposing teams with 1 or 2 friendly escorts being our lovely little "parasites", this way hopefully something actually dies and you can further learn the value of the healing, debuffing, etc present and how an Atrox supports a group.
To put it bluntly, my Atrox can and will tank you pretty much forever. Barring subnucs it can generally tank afew people nearly forever. And this highlights the issue, even escorts on there good day, spike brel's with perfect alphas, most of them with crits can usually get me to 20% hull or so, without crits I'm usually staying above 50-70% hull, and I usually drop HE, Aux2Sif, and TT right afterwards if they weren't already up more or less nulling out there alpha.
I have no clue how you can even hope to do better than that. I'll even take any realistic handicap you want such as not directly targeting your fighters so you keep more damage around or something.
The simple fact is, you just can't do enough damage. The sad part is I'm not even that great at tanking.
Conversely I've accepted the fact I can't do damage, its a limitation of the ship and its design.
Instead I focus on setting up my allies to blow things up, and making sure they live so they can blow things up.
The Atrox is not an RSV, you don't have the tac consoles, tac boffs, manueverability, or much of anything else needed to effectively run great dps from a sci boat.
Most good DPS setups for Sci revolve around the front 90, usually with DBB's and turrets, or torps and turrets. They keep there nose on the target all the time and try to shred a facing while keeping the ship as disabled as possible so they can't stop them from shedding a facing.
An atrox can't replicate this. Its to slow, and lacks the slots to fit it properly.
I am completely fine with having fun, I consider my excel my fun ship (its a blast lol), but I also except I would be strictly better in my excel as a tac because its focusing on spamming CRF's for turret spam.
If you want to fly a tac carrier by all means go for it, but to remotely argue that it is as effect, on par, or anywhere within the same realm of usefulness as a more properly piloted carrier I believe the term we'd be search for to describe this is "delusional".
The sad part is, the atrox even on its best of days is rather "average".
PS, we'll have to schedule our fights for the weekend, as generally I don't play much on weekdays except rather late in the day
Imma just leave this here.
I am a fan of sapere aude. Words must be very convincing (with numbers and stuff mixed into it) to convince me. Hard, cold data. That is why battles convince me, and if you have followed this thread, the battles that occured against rally good people did make me change my build.
Sure, why not.
Well, just ask me when you see me in game.