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Path to F2P Dev Blog #14

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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Agreed. rather off topic.
    Btw, your signature can't exceed 5 lines. yours is 6. might wanna fix that too.

    I feel like predicting doom and gloom with previous examples of companies ignoring their customer base, like Cryptic would be doing if they go through with adding Dilithium to crafting, is way more on topic than talking about me being off topic. The topic is F2P changes to crafting. Ask SWG fans how they feel about NGE come this Dec. Its all extremely on topic because no one wants to see the ship to go down in flames and lose what they love. 630+ posts later this still feels poorly addressed by Cryptic. I get that some fires you let burn themselves out, but some you have to douse before they spread. For example: How does Cryptic intend to handle fleet crafting with F2P. Is something you forgot about, or didn't fully grasp how important it was to people, or felt needed to go in order to make the new model work?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    A working crafting system: LOTRO's system. LOTRO went f2p awhile back. They changed the crafting system to add some monetization to it, BUT the monetization is still very much OPTIONAL. If you want to craft your heart out, you are free to gather crafting nodes or have your kinmates send the needed mats to you. If you are getting close to the next tier in crafting, or you have something specific that you want to craft 'right now', and you just don't have one of the needed mats, then you can either a. go harvest it or b. go spend Turbine points to buy 'crafting packs' in order to make the needed item(s). This works extremely well. I can still serve as the Kinship's cook and potion maker, I don't have to spend money if I don't want to, and there is not a time-gate or limit on what I can make and when. Now, if you buy the crafting packs in the turbine store, the items made with the pack are bind-on-account, but at least those items I can send to my other alts.

    This incidentally has dropped the prices for some of the really hot items in the auction house--black and red dyes no longer sell at premium prices, because people will pay real money to craft those for themselves instead of over-paying large amounts of in-game gold for them on the AH.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Cryptiecop wrote:
    Picard says it right here in Star Trek First Contact:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilY4hRgfC2Q&feature=related

    So why do we even have currencies in this game (aside from Latinum) ????

    the reason we have currencies is because even clear into the 29th century with the temporal agencies and whatnot, the law of equivalent exchange still holds true...

    sorry, but even replicators gotta have something to change into whatever it is you're replicating....
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    ArgentSF wrote:
    the law of equivalent exchange still holds true...

    I'm pretty sure no one in star trek is an alchemist ;)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I'm pretty sure no one in star trek is an alchemist ;)

    no but you also don't get to make a pair of deck boots out of only ONE lump of TRIBBLE ;) (Star Trek Enterprise in a letter to the kids)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    ...because as we all know, one of Gene Roddenberry's great ideals in Star Trek was indentured servitude.

    BWAHAHAHA... I love it, that's brilliant!

    Hehe, glad you liked it. I had fun writing that one.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    iamjoffy wrote: »
    Too bad there aren't any other examples out there for Cryptic to learn from.

    "Netflix shares plunged Tuesday after the one-time Wall Street favorite revealed a massive departure of subscribers angered by price increases and other questionable changes at rental service that was created to make entertainment a snap."

    Another major update called the "New Game Enhancements" (abbreviated as NGE) was implemented on 15 November 2005, and created huge demonstrations in game from the majority of players....
    "We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players."

    Well funnily enough, their other MMO Champions Online have a much better F2P concept. So we know they can make things work. But then again, CO has much more events and things like that so it's obvious that the only thing they share is some worm geometry.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    There is a lot of talk in this and other forums about dilithium in crafting ALOT of responses are remove dilithium from crafting or I will quit STO.

    I DO NOT accept that there are only two options. But this is also clearly a case of the needs (or desires) of the many outway the need (or possible changes to STO) if the few (IE "THE DEVS).

    I am not going to expand on where or how the idea of incorperateing the newest currency Dilithuim came to the table, it is irrevalent.

    I would like to see it removed and replaced with energy credits (or the chance to convert EC into Dilithium) any alternative that does not leave it dependent on the crafter to come up with the outrageously high amount of dilithium needed for crafting as is.

    There has been a few hints that energy credits may become more important then they are now. Not enough to make it clear, why?

    One thing that is obvious is that very few like the idea of dilithium in crafting at the current amount per item. No crafter that I KNOW of likes the dilithium in crafting at all, but many would be more accepting of it if the amounts was reduced, more would be more accepting even happy to see an EC even if it was more then the current dilithium amount as long as the dilithium requirement was removed if not entirely at least 90% or more of the present requirement. Too Much is Too MUCH!

    I believe that this meets the requirement of CONSTRUCTIVE advise and not emotional ranting, if i am in error in makeing this conclusion please let me know.

    Also if Cryptic would like to know what we think as a community before they inverst time and effort into making a radical (as in a large divergance not as a adjective) change. Create a forum use a dummy account put it out there and see what response is generated. I am finally undersand that for whatever reason cryptic puts great store in what is posted in this forum. I am even getting used to coming here a little each day. I am not a fan of forums but if that is what is required to help stear the game changes I will do it.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Maye you will be able to by ore for energy credits?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    There is a lot of talk in this and other forums about dilithium in crafting ALOT of responses are remove dilithium from crafting or I will quit STO.

    I DO NOT accept that there are only two options. But this is also clearly a case of the needs (or desires) of the many outway the need (or possible changes to STO) if the few (IE "THE DEVS).

    I am not going to expand on where or how the idea of incorperateing the newest currency Dilithuim came to the table, it is irrevalent.

    I would like to see it removed and replaced with energy credits (or the chance to convert EC into Dilithium) any alternative that does not leave it dependent on the crafter to come up with the outrageously high amount of dilithium needed for crafting as is.

    There has been a few hints that energy credits may become more important then they are now. Not enough to make it clear, why?

    One thing that is obvious is that very few like the idea of dilithium in crafting at the current amount per item. No crafter that I KNOW of likes the dilithium in crafting at all, but many would be more accepting of it if the amounts was reduced, more would be more accepting even happy to see an EC even if it was more then the current dilithium amount as long as the dilithium requirement was removed if not entirely at least 90% or more of the present requirement. Too Much is Too MUCH!

    I believe that this meets the requirement of CONSTRUCTIVE advise and not emotional ranting, if i am in error in makeing this conclusion please let me know.

    Also if Cryptic would like to know what we think as a community before they inverst time and effort into making a radical (as in a large divergance not as a adjective) change. Create a forum use a dummy account put it out there and see what response is generated. I am finally undersand that for whatever reason cryptic puts great store in what is posted in this forum. I am even getting used to coming here a little each day. I am not a fan of forums but if that is what is required to help stear the game changes I will do it.

    All we want is a fun game that we are still playing in 5 years.....the changes to this game doesn't make it fun to play anymore.I mean.....it's supposed to be a game,not a job. I work to get paid,I do not pay to work.
    Give me a challenge through great gameplay,not through endless grinding to get things that are sub par to what you can get in the c-store. That's just plain lazy money grabbing.I want them to make money,because I want the game to still be around in 5 years time for me to play and enjoy.Happy people will stick around longer and spend more money on things they don't need because it makes them feel good about spending their money.

    Railroading their gaming experience and forcing them to the c-store at every turn doesn't make people happy....and unhappy people don't spend money on something they don't like doing,or when they feel cheated.If Cryptic and PWE can't get that through their thick skulls,they should go out of business.....as they deserve no other fate.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    (sorry double post)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    iamjoffy wrote: »
    As you can probably tell I don't post much, or know about points. But I don't mind being a sacrificial lamb. I do feel like its extremely on topic as I feel like our complaints against this are being barely acknowledged as we cry out "not like this! not like this!" and they are thinking "yeah this is gonna happen". I mean they are making me identify with Shinzon! Thats not good. Maybe my voice shall echo through time, long after theirs has faded to a dim memory! Free my Reman brothers from the Dilithium mines!

    This is real great drama: Revolution as part of the gameplay.;)
    But I like it:
    "Throw the tea in ..." errr I mean:
    "Free my Reman brothers from the Dilithium mines!"
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    SHARKFORCE wrote: »
    All we want is a fun game that we are still playing in 5 years.....the changes to this game doesn't make it fun to play anymore.I mean.....it's supposed to be a game,not a job. I work to get paid,I do not pay to work.
    Give me a challenge through great gameplay,not through endless grinding to get things that are sub par to what you can get in the c-store. That's just plain lazy money grabbing.I want them to make money,because I want the game to still be around in 5 years time for me to play and enjoy.Happy people will stick around longer and spend more money on things they don't need because it makes them feel good about spending their money.

    Railroading their gaming experience and forcing them to the c-store at every turn doesn't make people happy....and unhappy people don't spend money on something they don't like doing,or when they feel cheated.If Cryptic and PWE can't get that through their thick skulls,they should go out of business.....as they deserve no other fate.


    Quoted for truth! :D

    Seriously, are we still waitng for an official statement on the cfafting mess?? :rolleyes:
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    The creator of the 'star trek' relem believed that in the future we all help each other.

    crafting items to help people in the fleets WAS one such way.


    Gene Roddenberry will be turning in his grave!.


    TERRAHAWX.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    This isn't going away, we need an official response like yesterday on the mess up....
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I suspect that the most direct response we'll see may well be in tomorrow or Friday's Tribble patch notes, if even then. :mad:

    They have said that it can take 1-2 weeks to make changes based on our feedback, and I understand that. But if there are no major, and I mean MAJOR, changes to crafting as it exists on Tribble now, in the next patch, then we'd darn well better get a Dev response (and a detailed one!) ASAP! Keeping silent on this issue is not filling your player base with confidence, Cryptic.

    I am assuming that we're not going to get one tonight as it's past close of business, and tomorrow afternoon will be a week without any *direct* response. To be fair, there were 2 posts in other forum topics that said you were aware of our feedback, but those weren't here.

    Cryptic didn't even fumble most of the Dilithium-for-ship-purchase issues this poorly. Even if they haven't resolved it completely to most of our satisfaction (Still no word on VA tokens, Ship prices are still outrageous), at least they *communicated* with us.

    So come on ! A lot of us want to believe. We love this game. However, you're just shooting our faith in you repeatedly in the foot by staying virtually silent on this matter. We're about to pull away a stub here ! You ask us to communicate our feedback, but communication is a two way street. So, you know.... communicate with us.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    The reasons they haven't answered:
    a. they don't want to answer (given some of our ire, I could understand that fear)
    b. they don't have an answer yet that they can give us--consider the fact that they spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out how much dilithium everything should cost, only to have us all point out the obvious that this would destroy fleet crafting and make alt crafting much harder. They now have to rethink an entire section of the game and how it's going to work with other parts of the game. I suspect that's taking longer than 3 days of consideration.
    c. myriad of other, less important reasons

    Option b is far more likely than a.

    So, I shall wait.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    JaeOnasi wrote:
    The reasons they haven't answered:
    a. they don't want to answer (given some of our ire, I could understand that fear)
    b. they don't have an answer yet that they can give us--consider the fact that they spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out how much dilithium everything should cost, only to have us all point out the obvious that this would destroy fleet crafting and make alt crafting much harder. They now have to rethink an entire section of the game and how it's going to work with other parts of the game. I suspect that's taking longer than 3 days of consideration.
    c. myriad of other, less important reasons

    Option b is far more likely than a.

    So, I shall wait.

    :confused:

    I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but imho this is starting to reek of the stench of "free" games you can DL to your phone/tablet where if you want the good stuff you have to pay through the nose for it. Taking it to an extreme, I can just see it now RD cost for docking, slipstream, STF, PVP, refits, ships, etc I have seen many games lose their "Full of Win" awards by pulling stunts like this, but most of us are sitting around and taking it, trying to find that silver lining because of two words "Star and Trek". And to think I got suckered into LTS for this mess... Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    SatansHell wrote: »
    This isn't going away, we need an official response like yesterday on the mess up....

    ok satan, gotta say it mate, but on one of the blogs we were told that the staff of cryptic has been asked to keep low on this matters so no misunderstandings are forumed, just stayed relaxed and give it time.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Feldan wrote:
    :confused:

    I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but imho this is starting to reek of the stench of "free" games you can DL to your phone/tablet where if you want the good stuff you have to pay through the nose for it. Taking it to an extreme, I can just see it now RD cost for docking, slipstream, STF, PVP, refits, ships, etc I have seen many games lose their "Full of Win" awards by pulling stunts like this, but most of us are sitting around and taking it, trying to find that silver lining because of two words "Star and Trek". And to think I got suckered into LTS for this mess... Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    I'm right there with you--I bought my LTS this past spring because I had faith that we'd see more featured episodes, and I was enjoying those. I'm disappointed that we haven't seen any more since the Reman episode arc. I'm quite distressed with the dilithium for crafting business. Cryptic ignores that at their peril, but the devs strike me as people who want the game to do as well as it can, so I imagine it's going to change. We've certainly made the case that the current crafting system is going to gut fleet and alt crafting. Can I grind 4 days to get the 32,000 refined dilithium to make one single Mark XI console or shield? 2 days to get the 16k for one single Mark XI weapon? 8k for one single Mark XI Vulcan Lirpa? Nope. I don't have that kind of time--I do have to work and take care of a family, after all. I think even the developers can agree that spending literally an entire month of daily dilithium grinding just to craft the equipment needed for 1 single VA ship for a fleet mate, or myself, for that matter, is not doable. Even a tenth of that is not doable for fleet crafters like me. I'm also not going to pay a ton of real money to make an in game item for myself or a fleetmate. I don't have that kind of money to waste spending it on in game items for myself or fleetmates.

    I suspect the devs are going to change it. If/when they do, then I'll be able to comment more intelligently. If they don't change it, and this crafting tax hits Holodeck, well, I'll move on to activities and games that I consider a lot more fun than a mindless grind to make just one single Mark XI item. In the meantime, I'm going to go craft a ton of stuff for fleetmates in case Cryptic does decide to go through with this.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Well, that was a long week...
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Its Thursday already and we haven't heard a peep from management about this issue.

    Next time I hear someone tell me that D'Angelo is as communicative as Daniel, I'll 'nuke them from orbit'. ;)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Palmera wrote:
    ok satan, gotta say it mate, but on one of the blogs we were told that the staff of cryptic has been asked to keep low on this matters so no misunderstandings are forumed, just stayed relaxed and give it time.

    Aye, I was wrong to let my frustration spill into my posts, must relax more :p

    Like quite a few I have met in this game, this is my first mmo. I doubt it will be my last with TOR just around the corner, but I gotta say, this whole experience has left me empty and just not even wanting to play it anymore.

    I put my trust in cryptic by forking out quite a bit of money on a lifetime sub, much much more than I have ever spent on a game. Stupidly it was this year, so I will never break even with the cost of the lifetime ontop of the previous monthly subs allready paid.
    Honestly if it was not for that fact, I would have stopped my sub months ago, something shared with a lot of lifers at the moment... :(
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Edit: They ain't fixed squat.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    LTigh wrote:
    Edit: They ain't fixed squat.

    Agreed, its almost as if they want this game to be the next SWG :rolleyes:
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    LTigh wrote:
    Edit: They ain't fixed squat.

    That's not true. They did a lot of work on the DOff system and fixed a few bugs that were driving people insane. Now, if you mean that they didn't do anything regarding the crafting system, then you're right. They didn't do squat. They also didn't address the VA ship token or the stupid forced mission progression...three of the biggest problems that I currently have regarding the F2P Tribble test.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Now, if you mean that they didn't do anything regarding the crafting system, then you're right. They didn't do squat.

    This.

    Original post was a comment regarding crafting and the edit was made accordingly.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Ever since I first heard speculations years ago about STO going F2P (P2W), I knew it would end up like this. Well, maybe it doesn't even end here, bet they can create some more $$$-holes, thats what the gaming industry is best at these days anyway. DLC anyone?

    Getting ripped off while playing a Star Trek game is a tragedy in itself and I already disliked the focus on the C-Store, which most ppl seemed to be ok with. The $$$ was mighty already back in the days when there was still fun in gaming, but companies at least asked themselves if its really always worth to squeeze the last single Dollar out of every move you make. Or if maybe that brilliant new business plan, developed by financial guys without knowledge of the gaming sector, is just too much for a fanb... I mean current paying customers? Ever thought of sustainability? F2Pers who change games more often than their underwear won't grant it, and they sure won't add to a immersive universe, but this doesn't matter since it can't be directly converted to money I guess.

    I really have to regret now that I bought that LTA back then. Its not about the money (just by the figures I had enough months for it, though I didn't play most of them), but it really bugs me that I supported this game seeing what it becomes. And everything under the flag of Star Trek, next humongous disappointment after the last flick and STO always only being mediocre.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    SatansHell wrote: »
    Aye, I was wrong to let my frustration spill into my posts, must relax more :p

    Like quite a few I have met in this game, this is my first mmo. I doubt it will be my last with TOR just around the corner, but I gotta say, this whole experience has left me empty and just not even wanting to play it anymore.

    I put my trust in cryptic by forking out quite a bit of money on a lifetime sub, much much more than I have ever spent on a game. Stupidly it was this year, so I will never break even with the cost of the lifetime ontop of the previous monthly subs allready paid.
    Honestly if it was not for that fact, I would have stopped my sub months ago, something shared with a lot of lifers at the moment... :(

    yeah... think i might have to agree with your signage below...

    RIP STO. be seeing you on TOR thou. Dec 22nd cant come fast enough and than ill have new space and stories to tell, with some new faces and more drama. but atleast there be content not explored.

    PW and Cryptic really is dipliting sicking this ship. not fixxing bugs, not telling us whats going on. adding little new things like pets and not fixing the things we already have... dare i go on...

    thus ill relax too
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Palmera wrote:
    yeah... think i might have to agree with your signage below...

    RIP STO. be seeing you on TOR thou. Dec 22nd cant come fast enough and than ill have new space and stories to tell, with some new faces and more drama. but atleast there be content not explored.

    PW and Cryptic really is dipliting sicking this ship. not fixxing bugs, not telling us whats going on. adding little new things like pets and not fixing the things we already have... dare i go on...

    thus ill relax too

    I'll be playing TOR, so you may see me in the galaxy far far away :D
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