I've patiently waited, loved, and supported the devs through the content drought, when I heard about perfect world, all of it, not because the games great (which it could be) not because it's the only game I play (which it's not) It's because I love TREK. This game is getting so far away from TREK it's ridiculous.
This really does look like it's turning into pay to win, and we're not ok with that. We subscribe. Silver doesn't. You want our 15 dollars a month, earn it.
You want your lifers to stay, make them want to.
Right now it isn't turning out that way.
We've got 500 day rewards for a reason, because we are dedicated. You want a bunch of freeloaders coming in, buying 20 bucks worth of gear, then burning out and jumping to a new game next month? Fine. Give us a separate server were we can do our GOLD stuff.
This is supposed to be based on Champions? Sorry there gold members get worthwhile perks. Not us from what I'm seeing.
And I only say this out of sheer disappointment. I think everyone that's here right now are fans, not just of sto, but of star trek. Being a trekkie is a camaraderie. We share that, and I think everybody just feels like there taking TREK and ruining it. Kinda JJ Abrams like. When we can see alot more potential to the TREK universe.
I'm sorry for the rant. But I just want this to be the best game it can be.
I suggest anybody who doesnt like what they are trying to do here just tip off your favorite gaming news site like massively or MMORPG. I'm sure they would be happy to write an article about how Cryptic is trying to force subscribers to spend more money just to get normal in game items. And its obvious our feedback alone isnt enough to make them change. So yeah, get the word out.
We will be bringing the Tribble server down for maintenance to apply a new update.
*Since exploration missions reward dilithium they have been updated to be daily missions.
*Promotion missions given from Admiral Quinn are now available as a remote contact Duty Officer:
*Stuff
Does this mean all explorations are daily, ore individually daily. For example, if I explore Delta Volanis, does that remove the option to explore the Arucanis Arm until the time expires? Cause when I'm in an exploring mood, I tend to do two or three at a time.
I kind of understand being promoted in the field, but I never really minded going back for them. Does this just mean we can start them remotely, because I'd imagine we still have to be at ESD to actually claim our dilithium/ship.
I just started several longer doff assignments. Are they going to be updated to reflect the new timings and rewards, or do I need to drop and reassign my doffs?
Without units, this is still unfounded speculation.
What if dilithium ore is traded in kilos, but refined dilithium is traded in grams?
That is the first apologist post I found some merit with. It could work like that.
But you'd think they would have told us that rather than create the tempest that's been going on since yesterday or so. I'd like to think that they wouldn't make people grind for months to outfit one ship, when right now you can do it in days at most.
Remember, they told us that subscribers would not be hurt badly by the upcoming changes. I hope they keep their word.
This is a first for me but I am kinda not feeling some of the upcoming changes. Earlier I was promoted to Commander. I was excited to get my next ship, yes it was on Tribble, but still excited I was. But I didn't hav eneough Dlithium? WHY does Dilithium have to tie into every facet of this game. Ilisten to interviews all the time involving the Devs and many if not all have said "the players will be rewarded for their time played".
If we were recieving free next tier ships for free when promoted before, bu t now we have to wait until we get enough Dilithium I am not being rewarded for my time played. Basically this life time player is loosing something because why? It seems like too many things are being forced to change for no reason.
Here is an idea to toss around....
The free ship deal when you are promoted should stay intact. Make those ships have 0 amount if sold and if by some chance we want to get rid of it, make it where we can have it "recycled" or "stripped" for parts that would be used to help craft other items.
Simple Dilithium = A way for cryptic to either make you grind or buy C-Points and earn them cash. At least that's the way PW works - Just go play one of their games and see.
Remember, you'll be able to buy all the dilithium you want for cash. It's only the in-game dilithium that's limited. So this isn't some anti-inflation idea. It's a way to force people to spend cash to get anything they want, even the subscribers.
Yes and no.
If this system works anything like Perfect World's other Cash <-> Currency model, you're not buying Dilithium for cash. You're buying other people's Dilithium for cash.
Which means that there's a quasi-finite supply, based on how much dilithium is available versus how much people are wanting to use. Effectively, this creates a bit of a disparity based on the number of people playing. At launch, there will be a surplus of dilithium. If, presumably, lots of people play, there will be a low supply of it if people sell off their dilithium to the new players, but don't bother doing the new missions to get more/the rate is excessively heavy on refinement.
So it is still, in a sense, a game economics standpoint. Because there's an internal supply and demand that revolves around the player base's ability to generate the required income. The price of the Dilithium, an in-game currency, is determined based on how many people are actively playing, allowing you to exchange it for C-Store points, a real world currency. This makes it game economics, that happens to be related to real world currency. Until they add an option to the C-Store that simply deposits a previously non-exsistant sum of Dilithium into your wallet, it's still an game economy related system.
There's also the point that, if you're a subscriber, you're getting a stipend of C-Store points as part of your subscription which, if you don't like the things on the C-Store, you can simply just use to purchase Dilithium from other players on the market. Is this more cost-efficient than just buying C-Store points as a Silver? I don't know, that's entirely dependant on whether or not you find any value in the additional 'perks' granted to you by a gold status. For Lifetimers, this is a flat gain of points which can be contributed toward your C-STore purchases/dilithium each month, so not too bad at least.
Of course, that depends on how much a C-Store point is worth, anymore. There's a little bit of patch note that talks about the change in the pricing of items in the C-Store. I suspect the cost of points for most items has been raised, to better coincide with Perfect world's pricing system, and their tendency to market PW ZEN Points -> Game Currencies. I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing things like the SFA/KA uniforms becoming double their price (from 240 to 480/500, which is about $5 a piece), which is more in-line with the way that Pefect World Entertainment likes to price their decorative items, and also making it so that costume purchases are effectively the price of your monthly stipend, part of the previously mentioned C-Store market research.
Which, I should also probably point out, is a really awful way to conduct market research. Unless every thing you add to the C-Store on Tribble right now is brand new stuff, you're not neccessarily getting an objective view onw hat people's purchasing trends are going to be. You'll see what people absolutely must buy in a limited testing environment, with a limited number of points, for whatever they decide to test at the time. But it doesn't show you the things that people would like to buy, are willing to buy, or even considering to buy. It just gives you messy sample data.
... Anyway. I veered a bit off topic, to my original post, which was just some concern of the in game economics of the Dilithium system, since it seems like you're double-gate-ing the gains of dilithium.
We need to see what the conversion rate of Ore -> Refined is, and whether or not a system where the maximum amount of Dilithium you can refine should be increased.
I'd argue that the amount of Dilithium you can refine should probably actually scale with your rank, which gives people who have access to more sources of it later in the game the ability to refine more, if they choose to do all the missions available to them, versus a lack of needing to refine as much when you start when you only have two or three available sources.
these statements contradict each other. the magnitude of our displeasure is directly proportional to how much the prices need to change, that is the feedback.
i think its naive to assume 1 unrefined dilithium will = 1 refined dilithium. it will probably be more like 5 unrefined dilithium = 1 refined dilithium. in what universe can you take an unrefined substance and turn it into a more refined substance and be left with more then you started with? mater doesn't work like that! if basic physics is applied, this conversion problem is a lot bigger then we realize
Actually you are quite wrong. Gemstone mining today is a perfect example. A pound of high quality gem ore may actually contain anywhere from 5-10 carats worth of cut and polished gems. Dillithium is essentialy a gem. I rather think the equation will be 1 dillithium ore =X x Y refined dillithium where Y is a multiplier based on a number of unknown factors.
You have to remember large amounts of ore can actually yield signficantly more refined product then you imagine. Gold is another example. A pound of ore from a gold mine may only yield an ounce or two of pure gold but its value is much hgher given the current prices. If refined dillithium is our "value" product then it stand to reason the each unit of ore will yield substantially more units of refined dillithium.
what a nonsense to speculate about things, noone has seen yet.
and don't forget, this is TRIBBLE-test-server SO EVERYBODY CALM DOWN and TEST these updates!
and STOP COMPLAINING about things you all never tested :rolleyes:
I know you got to fleece the Silvers however you like. But Gold players are ALREADY PAYING TO PLAY YOUR GAME.
Give us back a FREE ship at level up. There's nothing to test, figure out, balance, or discount...
Gold Players == Free ship at level-up.
:mad:Full Stop.:mad:
I don't care if it's a token or a stipend of Refined Dilithium (that matches ship prices, and no sneaking in Ore that's time-gated). If you're worried about players using the Dilithium for other than a ship then go with the token. If you're worried about the overhead of multiple level tokens getting confusing, then make it s single token for any level ship. You level lock ships so lowbies can't buy higher ranks. And you make the token Unique so you can't save up for multiple higher-level ships. Use it as you rank, you get another. Don't use it? Fine, you still have it when you want it later.
As for the rest of my thoughts: My Feedback is pretty much as spoken already, above and some of the best are QFT below:
I agree, thats way to limited.
Just fully "arming" a T5 cruiser alone would take 108 days aka more than Three and a Half months! And that just isn't acceptable.
Fine for silver members, but still "unacceptable" for us loyal gold members.
Your still ripping us off, as instead of grinding dailies, PvP and exploration missions for better "equipment" we end up being "forced" to spend it on a new ship instead. :mad:
I'm sorry, but the only real solution here is to bring back the Free Ship Token's, at least for subscribers.
If itss 8000 ore = 8000 refined Dilithium.. you aren't even IN THE BALLPARK.
How can people who don't play 12 hours a day get anything done?
Not only is the 8000 cap unreasonable in every way, the rate at which you earn ore will require long play sessions to even get that 8000.. and you can't do anything else?
What happened to it being a time-based currency? Why doesn't anytime spent earn you currency? What happened to the mission rewards that were Merit/Honor being rolled over to Dilithium?
This isn't fooling anyone, its CLEARLY all built around making C-Store->Dilithium exchange being the primary acquisition method... and we won't tolerate that. Keep that junk in Asian games.
At levels below Admiral you should be able to earn 4 to 5 pieces of gear PER DAY so you can reasonably outfit a ship. If you MUST slow down gearing for Admirals, then they MUST earn at least one piece of gear per day.
I can't think that this is anything but a Perfect World economy revamp coming from on high, because this is a complete 180 degree change from the game we know.
News flash: This is "feedback" we are giving.
We are telling them already now that we do not want this.
While the conversion rate may yet to be determined, we do know that at this point gold members are being screwed over.
1.) No ship token and not enough dilithium to get a free ship at commander and up.
2.) Forced to spend dilithium we grind in PvP, Dailies and Exploration on a new ship instead of spending it on EQUIPMENT as we do now with badges on holodeck.
To everyone complaining about how much dilithium is needed to purchase items, may I ask a question.
Are you not getting any items via drops? The items in the stores are some of the very best in the game. To me, being able to go out and acquire all the best stuff should take some time. One of the things I don't like about Holodeck is that the best items are too easy to acquire. Items from drops/mission rewards, for the most part, are completely worthless every step of the way. Why? Every rank up, everyone runs to the store/crafter and grabs the very best, highest Mark gear they can equip, making all drops/rewards for the next 10 levels completely-irrelevant-vendor-trash.
This needs to change.
You rarely get anything useful from drops or from Mission rewards. And if something does become useful (MkIV Efficient Engines for example) they get nerfed. If you were to rely on mission rewards your ship would be a disaster of mix n match equipment completely nerfing your ability to survive or do any damage.
Thats why I liked crafting (I know Tribble crafting isnt as intended right now) and was upset that I couldnt even craft the stuff that I needed to survive.
I could live with a LTC ship through Captain (which is what I am in right now) if I could craft or buy my gear. Loot drops are a big thumbs down to be able to complete anything in a reasonable amount of time without dying.
With the first patch my LTC ship (fighting Commander level romulans) Still had a MkII Green Disruptor Beam bank in it and not till Commander 9 did I get a Mk VI usable ship item (a photon torpedo launcher white). Sitting at Capt1 (didnt want to turn in the mission because I knew the patch was coming) I have a Mk II Dual Disruptor Beam Bank (ACC), Mk III Diruptor Canon, Mk VI Photon Torpedo Launcher, Mk IV Phaser beam array (Dmgx2), Mk IV Efficient Engine, Mk III Covariant Shield Array (Cap), Mk III Deflectors, MkIII Green weapons power console, 1 MkIV white Disruptor weapons console, and 1 Mk III white Disruptor Weapons console.
I have yet to loot or find a useable science console or any other console. This is just leveling up. I really feel sorry for any new player going through this. They are going to die a lot. And get fed up with it because they try to get info and all they find out is "Grind or buy".
Right now I would just be happy with the Mk VI gear I will get in the T4 defiant. It will be considerably better than what I have now.
Typically if you say, refine 8000 tons of Ore you'll usually get LESS than 8000 tons of final product because of all the TRIBBLE being removed by refinement...
Odds are 8000 Ore = 4000 Refined Dilithium
Again you forget the value. Refined dillithium is a value product. For example lets say is costs a gold mine 100 buck to mine 1 pound of gold ore. That ore yields 1/2 ounce of gold. That is only 1/32 of the original pound yet its value is about 200 dollars or twice what it cost the mine to produce it. Number doesn't equal value and you have to assume cryptic knows this.
I've patiently waited, loved, and supported the devs through the content drought, when I heard about perfect world, all of it, not because the games great (which it could be) not because it's the only game I play (which it's not) It's because I love TREK. This game is getting so far away from TREK it's ridiculous.
This really does look like it's turning into pay to win, and we're not ok with that. We subscribe. Silver doesn't. You want our 15 dollars a month, earn it.
You want your lifers to stay, make them want to.
Right now it isn't turning out that way.
We've got 500 day rewards for a reason, because we are dedicated. You want a bunch of freeloaders coming in, buying 20 bucks worth of gear, then burning out and jumping to a new game next month? Fine. Give us a separate server were we can do our GOLD stuff.
This is supposed to be based on Champions? Sorry there gold members get worthwhile perks. Not us from what I'm seeing.
And I only say this out of sheer disappointment. I think everyone that's here right now are fans, not just of sto, but of star trek. Being a trekkie is a camaraderie. We share that, and I think everybody just feels like there taking TREK and ruining it. Kinda JJ Abrams like. When we can see alot more potential to the TREK universe.
I'm sorry for the rant. But I just want this to be the best game it can be.
I agree 99.9%
As far as Dilithium and F2P... Non-Payers should not get anything close to what paying members get... There should be a level cap (even WOW caps at level 20), big restrictions on game areas (what maps you can goto, etc), what missions are available to you, etc etc etc...
With this Dilitium system, I thought there would be one currency. Where does "Ore" and "Refined" come in? Isn't that two seperate currencies? As I said this is really sounding like something fishy going on...
F2P should only be a teaser to make you thirst for more... Not just use a C-Store to "buy yourself a winning character"
I think the whole goal is for people to buy a ship with c-store points and then use the free dilithium to gear it up. That's why they are making all these low level plus one ships and not giving enough dilithium to buy the standard ones. Because it's easier to just buy the ship then have to grind up to get it and then spend even more time grinding up to gear it up.
and the trick is to lable it F2P when infact you will end paying a sub and paying for items :rolleyes:
....hey we have been warned about Ferengi during Academy so just dont buy from em
But let's see how they set it up for Holodeck.. too early to make a final call on the Ferengi Marketing Crowd yet
If this system works anything like Perfect World's other Cash <-> Currency model, you're not buying Dilithium for cash. You're buying other people's Dilithium for cash.
If one of the dev tweets is correct it's going to be more like PW-MY/EN than PWI. There will be an "official" Dilithium -> Cpoint conversion and players have to compete with that.
Now if this is not the case, then yes, it'll be just like PWI's horridly inflated market.
I see you're making the Dilithium issue even worse.
1. Unlimited Dilithium Processing per day is a necessity.
2. Do not make exploration missions a daily. It already takes 756 Mission Runs to get 1 Tier 5 Ship + Mark X Blue equipment, Making us do them once per day is going to drive players away. Both paying and free to play players.
3. No one should have to grind more in their lower tier ship to get their current tier ship at rank up. Additional ships of that tier yes, but the initial ship should always be free. That is the nature of the game you have created. Stick to it.
Simple Dilithium = A way for cryptic to either make you grind or buy C-Points and earn them cash. At least that's the way PW works - Just go play one of their games and see.
i knew getting bought by the chinese would ruin this game, cryptic didn't just sell their soul, they sold star treks soul as well. an economy this vile having anything to do with the star trek universe is blasphemy
The ship tokens should not have been changed. It worked don't mess with it. Heck I even like to buy more than one ship type at any given rank to see what ship I liked. That is gone now, THIS IS THE BIGGEST MESS UP SO FAR.
That is the first apologist post I found some merit with. It could work like that.
But you'd think they would have told us that rather than create the tempest that's been going on since yesterday or so. I'd like to think that they wouldn't make people grind for months to outfit one ship, when right now you can do it in days at most.
Remember, they told us that subscribers would not be hurt badly by the upcoming changes. I hope they keep their word.
Quit calling people apologists. Just because he/she has a different outlook then you doesn't make them an apologist. You sound silly and it makes you look rigid and intolerant of other opinions.
Now, having said that....
There better be one H of a multiplier from the refining process or I'm going to have Mk V gear forever.
what a nonsense to speculate about things, noone has seen yet.
and don't forget, this is TRIBBLE-test-server SO EVERYBODY CALM DOWN and TEST these updates!
and STOP COMPLAINING about things you all never tested :rolleyes:
No, but the devs have told us a lot about some of the stuff.
And a lot of it is about TRIBBLE us subscribers over in effect by their own words.
1. Lift the Dilithium refinement limit to limtless.
2. Move the Limitless Refinement process to Starbases. (Starships are NOT mass Refinement Facilities!...)
2a. Keep the small limit of Refinement (8000) on Starships, but Star bases Refinement is limitless.
3. Starbases charge a small fee (EC ) of like 3 per unit. "Wanna refine 50,000 ore? Cost ya 150,000 EC".
Hey lets face it! There is a HUGE amount of EC floating around.
Keeping a small production amount on Starships, for FREE, and the majority of it being handle at Base, where they would actually have the mass facilities to do so, makes more sense I.M.O.
This would free up the production limit people are showing to be a ligitimate problem, AND finally provide that much needed EC sink the game economy as needed.
(Pssst. Earth Space Dock could FINALLY have some use for that lower useless level...)
Feds would have theirs at ESD, and KDF of have theirs at the Facility on Praxis.
Feds could run down stairs to refine their stuff, and KDF flys over to Praxis for theirs.
Exactly. You cant get more from spending energy to break something down into a better state. You take a a gold nugget just mined that weighs 1lbs. You smelt it and burn out the impurities and it weighs 6oz or less.
Unless, in the star trek universe they have perfected the art of alchemy and transmutation. That would be another story.
So what if it ways 6 oz in todays economy that 6 oz is worth 3000 dollars. The value of that gold nuggest cost to mine and smelt is far less. You trade size for value. Refined dillithium is valuable so you have to assume cryptic understandst that basic princile. There is a differenc between absolute numbers and value.
1. Lift the Dilithium refinement limit to limtless.
2. Move the Limitless Refinement process to Starbases. (Starships are NOT mass Refinement Facilities!...)
2a. Keep the small limit of Refinement (8000) on Starships, but Star bases Refinement is limitless.
3. Starbases charge a small fee (EC ) of like 3 per unit. "Wanna refine 50,000 ore? Cost ya 150,000 EC".
Hey lets face it! There is a HUGE amount of EC floating around.
Keeping a small production amount on Starships, for FREE, and the majority of it being handle at Base, where they would actually have the mass facilities to do so, makes more sense I.M.O.
This would free up the production limit people are showing to be a ligitimate problem, AND finally provide that much needed EC sink the game economy as needed.
(Pssst. Earth Space Dock could FINALLY have some use for that lower useless level...)
Feds would have theirs at ESD, and KDF of have theirs at the Facility on Praxis.
Feds could run down stairs to refine their stuff, and KDF flys over to Praxis for theirs.
The thing is, we're not Gold Players during the testing phase, we are silver players.
Negative. Rehpic has stated that we are testing as gold players during the beta test.
ETA: It would very much help to know what the rate multiplier is when going from Dilithium Ore to Refined Dilithium. That is, when refined, how much Refined Dilithium does 1 Dilithium Ore give? Hopefully the Path to F2P Blog (#7?) will tell us, or it will be pretty obvious once Tribble comes back up.
To be honest, I am not holding my breath against there not being unhappiness, but we shall see.
Comments
This really does look like it's turning into pay to win, and we're not ok with that. We subscribe. Silver doesn't. You want our 15 dollars a month, earn it.
You want your lifers to stay, make them want to.
Right now it isn't turning out that way.
We've got 500 day rewards for a reason, because we are dedicated. You want a bunch of freeloaders coming in, buying 20 bucks worth of gear, then burning out and jumping to a new game next month? Fine. Give us a separate server were we can do our GOLD stuff.
This is supposed to be based on Champions? Sorry there gold members get worthwhile perks. Not us from what I'm seeing.
And I only say this out of sheer disappointment. I think everyone that's here right now are fans, not just of sto, but of star trek. Being a trekkie is a camaraderie. We share that, and I think everybody just feels like there taking TREK and ruining it. Kinda JJ Abrams like. When we can see alot more potential to the TREK universe.
I'm sorry for the rant. But I just want this to be the best game it can be.
this really needs to be made clear, and with units of measurement. if its the same units, well my brain hurts already just thinking about it
I fully agree with everything said in that post. Cryptic, your not treating us right!
Does this mean all explorations are daily, ore individually daily. For example, if I explore Delta Volanis, does that remove the option to explore the Arucanis Arm until the time expires? Cause when I'm in an exploring mood, I tend to do two or three at a time.
I kind of understand being promoted in the field, but I never really minded going back for them. Does this just mean we can start them remotely, because I'd imagine we still have to be at ESD to actually claim our dilithium/ship.
I just started several longer doff assignments. Are they going to be updated to reflect the new timings and rewards, or do I need to drop and reassign my doffs?
a coversion rate table for those who can't do the math:
Lieutenant = 8,000
Lt. Commander = 16,000
Commander = 24,000
Captain = 32,000
Rear Admiral (LH) = 40,000
Rear Admiral (UH) = 48,000
Vice Admiral = 56,000
would this be fair? at least somewhat?
That is the first apologist post I found some merit with. It could work like that.
But you'd think they would have told us that rather than create the tempest that's been going on since yesterday or so. I'd like to think that they wouldn't make people grind for months to outfit one ship, when right now you can do it in days at most.
Remember, they told us that subscribers would not be hurt badly by the upcoming changes. I hope they keep their word.
Simple Dilithium = A way for cryptic to either make you grind or buy C-Points and earn them cash. At least that's the way PW works - Just go play one of their games and see.
Yes and no.
If this system works anything like Perfect World's other Cash <-> Currency model, you're not buying Dilithium for cash. You're buying other people's Dilithium for cash.
Which means that there's a quasi-finite supply, based on how much dilithium is available versus how much people are wanting to use. Effectively, this creates a bit of a disparity based on the number of people playing. At launch, there will be a surplus of dilithium. If, presumably, lots of people play, there will be a low supply of it if people sell off their dilithium to the new players, but don't bother doing the new missions to get more/the rate is excessively heavy on refinement.
So it is still, in a sense, a game economics standpoint. Because there's an internal supply and demand that revolves around the player base's ability to generate the required income. The price of the Dilithium, an in-game currency, is determined based on how many people are actively playing, allowing you to exchange it for C-Store points, a real world currency. This makes it game economics, that happens to be related to real world currency. Until they add an option to the C-Store that simply deposits a previously non-exsistant sum of Dilithium into your wallet, it's still an game economy related system.
There's also the point that, if you're a subscriber, you're getting a stipend of C-Store points as part of your subscription which, if you don't like the things on the C-Store, you can simply just use to purchase Dilithium from other players on the market. Is this more cost-efficient than just buying C-Store points as a Silver? I don't know, that's entirely dependant on whether or not you find any value in the additional 'perks' granted to you by a gold status. For Lifetimers, this is a flat gain of points which can be contributed toward your C-STore purchases/dilithium each month, so not too bad at least.
Of course, that depends on how much a C-Store point is worth, anymore. There's a little bit of patch note that talks about the change in the pricing of items in the C-Store. I suspect the cost of points for most items has been raised, to better coincide with Perfect world's pricing system, and their tendency to market PW ZEN Points -> Game Currencies. I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing things like the SFA/KA uniforms becoming double their price (from 240 to 480/500, which is about $5 a piece), which is more in-line with the way that Pefect World Entertainment likes to price their decorative items, and also making it so that costume purchases are effectively the price of your monthly stipend, part of the previously mentioned C-Store market research.
Which, I should also probably point out, is a really awful way to conduct market research. Unless every thing you add to the C-Store on Tribble right now is brand new stuff, you're not neccessarily getting an objective view onw hat people's purchasing trends are going to be. You'll see what people absolutely must buy in a limited testing environment, with a limited number of points, for whatever they decide to test at the time. But it doesn't show you the things that people would like to buy, are willing to buy, or even considering to buy. It just gives you messy sample data.
... Anyway. I veered a bit off topic, to my original post, which was just some concern of the in game economics of the Dilithium system, since it seems like you're double-gate-ing the gains of dilithium.
We need to see what the conversion rate of Ore -> Refined is, and whether or not a system where the maximum amount of Dilithium you can refine should be increased.
I'd argue that the amount of Dilithium you can refine should probably actually scale with your rank, which gives people who have access to more sources of it later in the game the ability to refine more, if they choose to do all the missions available to them, versus a lack of needing to refine as much when you start when you only have two or three available sources.
Actually you are quite wrong. Gemstone mining today is a perfect example. A pound of high quality gem ore may actually contain anywhere from 5-10 carats worth of cut and polished gems. Dillithium is essentialy a gem. I rather think the equation will be 1 dillithium ore =X x Y refined dillithium where Y is a multiplier based on a number of unknown factors.
You have to remember large amounts of ore can actually yield signficantly more refined product then you imagine. Gold is another example. A pound of ore from a gold mine may only yield an ounce or two of pure gold but its value is much hgher given the current prices. If refined dillithium is our "value" product then it stand to reason the each unit of ore will yield substantially more units of refined dillithium.
and don't forget, this is TRIBBLE-test-server SO EVERYBODY CALM DOWN and TEST these updates!
and STOP COMPLAINING about things you all never tested :rolleyes:
There's nothing to test, figure out, balance, or discount...
Gold Players == Free ship at level-up.
:mad:Full Stop.:mad:
I don't care if it's a token or a stipend of Refined Dilithium (that matches ship prices, and no sneaking in Ore that's time-gated). If you're worried about players using the Dilithium for other than a ship then go with the token. If you're worried about the overhead of multiple level tokens getting confusing, then make it s single token for any level ship. You level lock ships so lowbies can't buy higher ranks. And you make the token Unique so you can't save up for multiple higher-level ships. Use it as you rank, you get another. Don't use it? Fine, you still have it when you want it later.
As for the rest of my thoughts: My Feedback is pretty much as spoken already, above and some of the best are QFT below:
You rarely get anything useful from drops or from Mission rewards. And if something does become useful (MkIV Efficient Engines for example) they get nerfed. If you were to rely on mission rewards your ship would be a disaster of mix n match equipment completely nerfing your ability to survive or do any damage.
Thats why I liked crafting (I know Tribble crafting isnt as intended right now) and was upset that I couldnt even craft the stuff that I needed to survive.
I could live with a LTC ship through Captain (which is what I am in right now) if I could craft or buy my gear. Loot drops are a big thumbs down to be able to complete anything in a reasonable amount of time without dying.
With the first patch my LTC ship (fighting Commander level romulans) Still had a MkII Green Disruptor Beam bank in it and not till Commander 9 did I get a Mk VI usable ship item (a photon torpedo launcher white). Sitting at Capt1 (didnt want to turn in the mission because I knew the patch was coming) I have a Mk II Dual Disruptor Beam Bank (ACC), Mk III Diruptor Canon, Mk VI Photon Torpedo Launcher, Mk IV Phaser beam array (Dmgx2), Mk IV Efficient Engine, Mk III Covariant Shield Array (Cap), Mk III Deflectors, MkIII Green weapons power console, 1 MkIV white Disruptor weapons console, and 1 Mk III white Disruptor Weapons console.
I have yet to loot or find a useable science console or any other console. This is just leveling up. I really feel sorry for any new player going through this. They are going to die a lot. And get fed up with it because they try to get info and all they find out is "Grind or buy".
Right now I would just be happy with the Mk VI gear I will get in the T4 defiant. It will be considerably better than what I have now.
Again you forget the value. Refined dillithium is a value product. For example lets say is costs a gold mine 100 buck to mine 1 pound of gold ore. That ore yields 1/2 ounce of gold. That is only 1/32 of the original pound yet its value is about 200 dollars or twice what it cost the mine to produce it. Number doesn't equal value and you have to assume cryptic knows this.
I agree 99.9%
As far as Dilithium and F2P... Non-Payers should not get anything close to what paying members get... There should be a level cap (even WOW caps at level 20), big restrictions on game areas (what maps you can goto, etc), what missions are available to you, etc etc etc...
With this Dilitium system, I thought there would be one currency. Where does "Ore" and "Refined" come in? Isn't that two seperate currencies? As I said this is really sounding like something fishy going on...
F2P should only be a teaser to make you thirst for more... Not just use a C-Store to "buy yourself a winning character"
and the trick is to lable it F2P when infact you will end paying a sub and paying for items :rolleyes:
....hey we have been warned about Ferengi during Academy so just dont buy from em
But let's see how they set it up for Holodeck.. too early to make a final call on the Ferengi Marketing Crowd yet
If one of the dev tweets is correct it's going to be more like PW-MY/EN than PWI. There will be an "official" Dilithium -> Cpoint conversion and players have to compete with that.
Now if this is not the case, then yes, it'll be just like PWI's horridly inflated market.
1. Unlimited Dilithium Processing per day is a necessity.
2. Do not make exploration missions a daily. It already takes 756 Mission Runs to get 1 Tier 5 Ship + Mark X Blue equipment, Making us do them once per day is going to drive players away. Both paying and free to play players.
3. No one should have to grind more in their lower tier ship to get their current tier ship at rank up. Additional ships of that tier yes, but the initial ship should always be free. That is the nature of the game you have created. Stick to it.
i knew getting bought by the chinese would ruin this game, cryptic didn't just sell their soul, they sold star treks soul as well. an economy this vile having anything to do with the star trek universe is blasphemy
The thing is, we're not Gold Players during the testing phase, we are silver players.
Quit calling people apologists. Just because he/she has a different outlook then you doesn't make them an apologist. You sound silly and it makes you look rigid and intolerant of other opinions.
Now, having said that....
There better be one H of a multiplier from the refining process or I'm going to have Mk V gear forever.
No, but the devs have told us a lot about some of the stuff.
And a lot of it is about TRIBBLE us subscribers over in effect by their own words.
1. Lift the Dilithium refinement limit to limtless.
2. Move the Limitless Refinement process to Starbases. (Starships are NOT mass Refinement Facilities!...)
2a. Keep the small limit of Refinement (8000) on Starships, but Star bases Refinement is limitless.
3. Starbases charge a small fee (EC
Hey lets face it! There is a HUGE amount of EC floating around.
Keeping a small production amount on Starships, for FREE, and the majority of it being handle at Base, where they would actually have the mass facilities to do so, makes more sense I.M.O.
This would free up the production limit people are showing to be a ligitimate problem, AND finally provide that much needed EC sink the game economy as needed.
(Pssst. Earth Space Dock could FINALLY have some use for that lower useless level...)
Feds would have theirs at ESD, and KDF of have theirs at the Facility on Praxis.
Feds could run down stairs to refine their stuff, and KDF flys over to Praxis for theirs.
So what if it ways 6 oz in todays economy that 6 oz is worth 3000 dollars. The value of that gold nuggest cost to mine and smelt is far less. You trade size for value. Refined dillithium is valuable so you have to assume cryptic understandst that basic princile. There is a differenc between absolute numbers and value.
I like this idea.
No, we are all gold. They changed their minds and went gold for F2P testing.
Negative. Rehpic has stated that we are testing as gold players during the beta test.
ETA: It would very much help to know what the rate multiplier is when going from Dilithium Ore to Refined Dilithium. That is, when refined, how much Refined Dilithium does 1 Dilithium Ore give? Hopefully the Path to F2P Blog (#7?) will tell us, or it will be pretty obvious once Tribble comes back up.
To be honest, I am not holding my breath against there not being unhappiness, but we shall see.