No you claimed that a disabled person could not effectively command a starship, then went on to say they'd get stuck on uneven ground.
So.... is it easy to get around a swamp or forest in a wheelchair?
I said that a crippled person without functional legs couldnt effectively do his duties as well as would be required for a starship captain in ST. In ST the captain goes toe to toe with enemies, gets into situations that require nimble and intricate movement in confined spaces, and require manueverability not possesed by a person in a wheelchair.
Sure, you could sit in the captins chair, but that would most likely be the extent of your ability. Being captured and put into an enemy prison isn't the best situation to not have working legs in, would it?
the lack of disabled people is due to the nature of medical science. there is almost no problem they cant fix in TNG an DS9 and this game is further ahead that that. even when worf had his spine crushed there was a way to replace his spinal cord. nog lost a leg and they just give him a new one that works almost as well.
in 700 episodes how many wheelchairs where seen? one for an alien (who bashir also devised a way that she would no longer need it), and pike in both TOS and XI, and that was two centuries before this time period.
I dont have a problem with a few npc having them just for those very very rare cases, but i dont really want to get into a situation where people are having races around ESD though. that would just make it silly.
people would be using them, not to show respect but because its a new gizmo to use and suddenly they would be everywhere. with an NPC it can be used sparingly and more realistically considering the games setting.
So.... is it easy to get around a swamp or forest in a wheelchair?
I said that a crippled person without functional legs couldnt effectively do his duties as well as would be required for a starship captain in ST. In ST the captain goes toe to toe with enemies, gets into situations that require nimble and intricate movement in confined spaces, and require manueverability not possesed by a person in a wheelchair.
Sure, you could sit in the captins chair, but that would most likely be the extent of your ability. Being captured and put into an enemy prison isn't the best situation to not have working legs in, would it?
I came up with a solution for your theory on this, but you dont seem to want to hear it.
you need to stop now. you are attacking him whether you realise it or not.
Fine I'll stop.
If someone wants to suggest something they should cite the merits of having that in-game. Be ready to defend those merits against scrutiny, and justify how it is good for all players not just themselves. I haven't seen that in this thread. Whenever asked for specifics the OP claims people are attacking him. When given an analogy to illustrate a point, responses are made that are deliberately obtuse.
So fine, I'll head off to bed. Have an epicly good rest of the night.
If someone wants to suggest something they should cite the merits of having that in-game. Be ready to defend those merits against scrutiny, and justify how it is good for all players not just themselves. I haven't seen that in this thread. Whenever asked for specifics the OP claims people are attacking him. When given an analogy to illustrate a point, responses are made that are deliberately obtuse.
So fine, I'll head off to bed. Have an epicly good rest of the night.
What?
Theres been lots added to this game that hasnt been good for everyone. I have no need of new costumes, maybe i should just go and attack all the poeple that do because i disagree?
Yes the bicycle v glasses analogy was quite obtuse.
Theres been lots added to this game that hasnt been good for everyone. I have no need of new costumes, maybe i should just go and attack all the poeple that do because i disagree?
Yes the bicycle v glasses analogy was quite obtuse.
He doesnt care about anything like this he wants his wheelchair in the game and could care less how relevant or behind the times it is. That being said I see the likelihood of this happening to be non existent. I cant see a whole lot of people being interesting in using it and they arent gonna waste dev time on one person.
How about a Tribble, that is wearing glasses, that pops your character into a transforming wheelchair (with wheeled and hover modes), armed with omni-directional antiproton shotguns, quantum micro-torpedo launchers, and a Scramble Sensors 3 Can of Spam (tm) Mine Launcher?
I'm a little worried that it might be a little underpowered compared to available options, so, what could we add ro make it more balanced?
...Given everything that has come in this thread I'm almost hesitant to post at all. Not a good sign,
Anyway, part of the hope of Star Trek is that things are so much better than now. The blind can see, disease is cured, spines can be regrown, even the dead can be revived an astounding amount of time after death. (I think it was more than an hour for Nelix that one time, but I don't want to bother looking it up right now)
That doesn't mean there won't be some wheelchairs in the future, but we aren't likely to see them in the front line units of a military organization, just as we don't now. The physical demands on a captain are just as real as the mental, unfortunately.
Heck, I'd fail the medical portion of enlistment now for at least six reasons, and I'm in reasonably good shape considering.
Now, that said, I would have nothing against having a hover-chair or something in game of that sort for those who want it except for the fact that Dev time is severely constrained and budgeted. We can't even get (currently anyway) a knee-length skirt in game because of animation issues and time requirements, and that would be a much simpler thing to add than a wheelchair.
And that's to just add it in a bare bones kind of way. Having the captain be in his chair and another lead the away team was suggested - but we've already been told that such a move (discussed for those who think a Captain's place is on the bridge anyway) will be a massive undertaking with a lot of back end changes and large code rewrites, etc. In other words, a lot more work than the modeling and animation would be, which is still more than they can spare for my skirt example.
Beyond all those concerns there is the issue of how ground combat would work, the very large pass required over existing maps to make them hover/wheel chair accessible, and how a lot of powers (melee weapons and dodging for example) would work, balance issues, and so forth.
So, yeah, got nothing against the idea, but there simply isn't enough time or demand to justify the expense.
To end on a positive note I'd like to say how wonderful it is that right now there are groups in the United States and elsewhere about to start or have started Human trials on things like prosthetic limbs controlled directly by the brain, wireless computer chips (this one I've seen with my own eyes and talked to the inventor) implanted directly into the vision centers of the brain and connected to a camera in a pair of glasses (via a belt mounted computer) to give a blind man vision about as refined as a 720p TV screen. These are exciting times for medical technology and hopefully the next few decades will see these (and powered exo-skeletons like several other groups are working on) improve the lives of people all over the world.
But Capt Pike? Aslo there was a chick in DS9 that had a wheel chair.
Look pal i am disabled as well i am not saying why but i am.
one she didnt have a wheel chair in ds9 she had crutches cause she comes from a planet with less then 1g gravity which is standard on most humanoid worlds. and standard on all starfleet space stations
Now if you really wont to get picky the officer you mention in the destiny books uses a hologram to float around the ship and interact with the crew and at the books a fellow engineer had made her a piece of tech so she would have a field around her so she could move freely among the crew but still could unjoy a good float after her shift
Now as for wheel chairs with all the adaptions in star fleet medicine i dont think this would still be a problem they would have fixed this by now.
i understand your suffering but i dont think youll get your request
If SOE can add this to a old gameengine, where everyone, regardless of size (tall Wookie vs small Rodian f.ex) can use it, I cannot see why it should be such a technical problem in STO, being a far newer (and presumeably more advanced) gameengine.
one she didnt have a wheel chair in ds9 she had crutches cause she comes from a planet with less then 1g gravity which is standard on most humanoid worlds. and standard on all starfleet space stations
the gravity things is right but she did have a wheel chair
If SOE can add this to a old gameengine, where everyone, regardless of size (tall Wookie vs small Rodian f.ex) can use it, I cannot see why it should be such a technical problem in STO, being a far newer (and presumeably more advanced) gameengine.
Apples and Oranges, unfortunately.
No one (that I saw) was arguing that it can't be done, but rather that it would take too long to implement to be justifiable. The level of advancement of the game engine has nothing to do with it - and any impact it has is actually on the other side, i.e. taking longer to put out. The models/animations/textures/whatever in this game are more complicated than any analog item from a game like SWG.
In any case, the linked item was introduced five years after the game launched. Maybe when STO is that old as well there will be time to make something similar.
Assuming that Captains didn't need to go on away missions, then it might be acceptable. However, if there was such a tactical genius, then they would be at HQ while a more physically able captain would be out in the field. There are few if any handicapped captains that go out into the field since someone needs to take care of him and move him to where he needs to be all the time. Being a Captain is not just about making good tactical decisions, it is about taking care of your troops and other things as well that require good mobility.
General Order 15: No flag officer shall beam into a hazardous area without armed escort. (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan) Note that Kirk states that 'there's no such regulation', and Saavik's response of understated amusement suggests either that her description of this general order is not accurate and intended only to help persuade Kirk to allow her on the landing party, or that the regulation exists and Kirk was knowingly trying to circumvent it.
Section 12, Paragraph 4: Relates to the Captain undertaking command of an away mission.
During the Best Man Speech Picard states that Commander Data will never let him undertake an away mission, Data reacts to that by reciting the regulation but is told to shut up by Picard before he can complete his sentence. (Star Trek Nemesis)
Im quite sure a disabled captain would be able to perform the dutys to his ship and crew.
She had a wheel chair because she lived on a planet where you could fly if you maneuvered yourself properly. We're talking, her bones were so light that her body could not support it's own weight in standard G. This is not something that can be medically fixed in any time, it's her pure physiology. It's like me telling you to fly. You can't, you aren't light enough to, you don't have any limbs designed for lift, your bones aren't honeycombed for strength, you're just physically incapable of doing it.
I don't like saying it in the least, but to make this work, Cryptic would have to put a serious amount of time creating new animations, models and a whole bevy of things that could prove problematic. Furthermore, medical technology in Star Trek is far beyond that of today, and we're rapidly approaching the point where many injuries or defects resulting in ambulatory malfunctions can be corrected.
OP, you keep mentioning Captain Pike being in a wheel chair. That was almost 200 years ago from Star Trek Online's setting. And he wasn't serving in Starfleet anymore, he was...disabled in the worst way possible, physically incapable of doing anything. You have to ask, how would someone in a wheel chair fire a phaser rifle? Or run around the ship during a battle to repair broken EPS conduits? The answer is, they wouldn't, it's just...nearly impossible. If anything, they'd use a Holographic interface to serve. But it's more likely they simply wouldn't be disabled.
There's in universe examples to support this, but logic and your imagination can do it just as fine. That's really it, I'm sorry. I sympathize with your desire, but think of it this way; it's a video game.
A video game based on a series that takes place anywhere from one to four centuries in the future, where we have ships that travel hundreds if not thousands of orders of magnitude faster than the speed of light, and almost anything can be made from reorganized matter. And don't get me started on that stupid transporter, that thing's a bloody death trap, but that's an argument for a different day.
And in this video game, we're playing Captains of these ships. Whereas few, if any of us, come remotely close to that. Unless we have any naval captains on the forum, and I'm tempted to say that they should have a PHD in astrophysics too, then nobody here is remotely close to being a Starfleet captain. Hell, I'm a 16 year old boy, and I go to some suburban high school, not Starfleet Academy.
To play this game to the fullest, you need to use your imagination. You're disabled, so imagine your character was injured or born with a defect, or whatever you want to say, and it was repaired. There's no shame in such fantasies. It's only human.
Comments
So.... is it easy to get around a swamp or forest in a wheelchair?
I said that a crippled person without functional legs couldnt effectively do his duties as well as would be required for a starship captain in ST. In ST the captain goes toe to toe with enemies, gets into situations that require nimble and intricate movement in confined spaces, and require manueverability not possesed by a person in a wheelchair.
Sure, you could sit in the captins chair, but that would most likely be the extent of your ability. Being captured and put into an enemy prison isn't the best situation to not have working legs in, would it?
There you go again playing the victim. :rolleyes:
If I wanted to attack you, I would. It would be clear and blatant. All I've been is sarcastic.
in 700 episodes how many wheelchairs where seen? one for an alien (who bashir also devised a way that she would no longer need it), and pike in both TOS and XI, and that was two centuries before this time period.
I dont have a problem with a few npc having them just for those very very rare cases, but i dont really want to get into a situation where people are having races around ESD though. that would just make it silly.
people would be using them, not to show respect but because its a new gizmo to use and suddenly they would be everywhere. with an NPC it can be used sparingly and more realistically considering the games setting.
you need to stop now. you are attacking him whether you realise it or not.
Unfortunately, Sarcasm on the internet is most often interpreted as an attack...
Believe me, I've got over a decade of personal internet experience, in this area...
I came up with a solution for your theory on this, but you dont seem to want to hear it.
Fine I'll stop.
If someone wants to suggest something they should cite the merits of having that in-game. Be ready to defend those merits against scrutiny, and justify how it is good for all players not just themselves. I haven't seen that in this thread. Whenever asked for specifics the OP claims people are attacking him. When given an analogy to illustrate a point, responses are made that are deliberately obtuse.
So fine, I'll head off to bed. Have an epicly good rest of the night.
I have no issue with it, but thats not the topic here man.
The topic is Disabilities. Bad eyes falls under that category.
What?
Theres been lots added to this game that hasnt been good for everyone. I have no need of new costumes, maybe i should just go and attack all the poeple that do because i disagree?
Yes the bicycle v glasses analogy was quite obtuse.
We need glasses and wheelchairs.
Would like to see glasses too, even if they were just for fashion.
Crutches would be fine too. Hey, sometimes something stupid happens and someone gets a broken leg.
(Wheelchairs are OP)
Id buy a wheelchain on the CStore!
I'm a little worried that it might be a little underpowered compared to available options, so, what could we add ro make it more balanced?
Anyway, part of the hope of Star Trek is that things are so much better than now. The blind can see, disease is cured, spines can be regrown, even the dead can be revived an astounding amount of time after death. (I think it was more than an hour for Nelix that one time, but I don't want to bother looking it up right now)
That doesn't mean there won't be some wheelchairs in the future, but we aren't likely to see them in the front line units of a military organization, just as we don't now. The physical demands on a captain are just as real as the mental, unfortunately.
Heck, I'd fail the medical portion of enlistment now for at least six reasons, and I'm in reasonably good shape considering.
Now, that said, I would have nothing against having a hover-chair or something in game of that sort for those who want it except for the fact that Dev time is severely constrained and budgeted. We can't even get (currently anyway) a knee-length skirt in game because of animation issues and time requirements, and that would be a much simpler thing to add than a wheelchair.
And that's to just add it in a bare bones kind of way. Having the captain be in his chair and another lead the away team was suggested - but we've already been told that such a move (discussed for those who think a Captain's place is on the bridge anyway) will be a massive undertaking with a lot of back end changes and large code rewrites, etc. In other words, a lot more work than the modeling and animation would be, which is still more than they can spare for my skirt example.
Beyond all those concerns there is the issue of how ground combat would work, the very large pass required over existing maps to make them hover/wheel chair accessible, and how a lot of powers (melee weapons and dodging for example) would work, balance issues, and so forth.
So, yeah, got nothing against the idea, but there simply isn't enough time or demand to justify the expense.
To end on a positive note I'd like to say how wonderful it is that right now there are groups in the United States and elsewhere about to start or have started Human trials on things like prosthetic limbs controlled directly by the brain, wireless computer chips (this one I've seen with my own eyes and talked to the inventor) implanted directly into the vision centers of the brain and connected to a camera in a pair of glasses (via a belt mounted computer) to give a blind man vision about as refined as a 720p TV screen. These are exciting times for medical technology and hopefully the next few decades will see these (and powered exo-skeletons like several other groups are working on) improve the lives of people all over the world.
Look pal i am disabled as well i am not saying why but i am.
one she didnt have a wheel chair in ds9 she had crutches cause she comes from a planet with less then 1g gravity which is standard on most humanoid worlds. and standard on all starfleet space stations
Now if you really wont to get picky the officer you mention in the destiny books uses a hologram to float around the ship and interact with the crew and at the books a fellow engineer had made her a piece of tech so she would have a field around her so she could move freely among the crew but still could unjoy a good float after her shift
Now as for wheel chairs with all the adaptions in star fleet medicine i dont think this would still be a problem they would have fixed this by now.
i understand your suffering but i dont think youll get your request
http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Hover_Chair
If SOE can add this to a old gameengine, where everyone, regardless of size (tall Wookie vs small Rodian f.ex) can use it, I cannot see why it should be such a technical problem in STO, being a far newer (and presumeably more advanced) gameengine.
the gravity things is right but she did have a wheel chair
http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/9/92/Melora_Pazlar_tests_her_wheelchair.jpg
Apples and Oranges, unfortunately.
No one (that I saw) was arguing that it can't be done, but rather that it would take too long to implement to be justifiable. The level of advancement of the game engine has nothing to do with it - and any impact it has is actually on the other side, i.e. taking longer to put out. The models/animations/textures/whatever in this game are more complicated than any analog item from a game like SWG.
In any case, the linked item was introduced five years after the game launched. Maybe when STO is that old as well there will be time to make something similar.
During the Best Man Speech Picard states that Commander Data will never let him undertake an away mission, Data reacts to that by reciting the regulation but is told to shut up by Picard before he can complete his sentence. (Star Trek Nemesis)
Im quite sure a disabled captain would be able to perform the dutys to his ship and crew.
She had a wheel chair because she lived on a planet where you could fly if you maneuvered yourself properly. We're talking, her bones were so light that her body could not support it's own weight in standard G. This is not something that can be medically fixed in any time, it's her pure physiology. It's like me telling you to fly. You can't, you aren't light enough to, you don't have any limbs designed for lift, your bones aren't honeycombed for strength, you're just physically incapable of doing it.
I don't like saying it in the least, but to make this work, Cryptic would have to put a serious amount of time creating new animations, models and a whole bevy of things that could prove problematic. Furthermore, medical technology in Star Trek is far beyond that of today, and we're rapidly approaching the point where many injuries or defects resulting in ambulatory malfunctions can be corrected.
OP, you keep mentioning Captain Pike being in a wheel chair. That was almost 200 years ago from Star Trek Online's setting. And he wasn't serving in Starfleet anymore, he was...disabled in the worst way possible, physically incapable of doing anything. You have to ask, how would someone in a wheel chair fire a phaser rifle? Or run around the ship during a battle to repair broken EPS conduits? The answer is, they wouldn't, it's just...nearly impossible. If anything, they'd use a Holographic interface to serve. But it's more likely they simply wouldn't be disabled.
There's in universe examples to support this, but logic and your imagination can do it just as fine. That's really it, I'm sorry. I sympathize with your desire, but think of it this way; it's a video game.
A video game based on a series that takes place anywhere from one to four centuries in the future, where we have ships that travel hundreds if not thousands of orders of magnitude faster than the speed of light, and almost anything can be made from reorganized matter. And don't get me started on that stupid transporter, that thing's a bloody death trap, but that's an argument for a different day.
And in this video game, we're playing Captains of these ships. Whereas few, if any of us, come remotely close to that. Unless we have any naval captains on the forum, and I'm tempted to say that they should have a PHD in astrophysics too, then nobody here is remotely close to being a Starfleet captain. Hell, I'm a 16 year old boy, and I go to some suburban high school, not Starfleet Academy.
To play this game to the fullest, you need to use your imagination. You're disabled, so imagine your character was injured or born with a defect, or whatever you want to say, and it was repaired. There's no shame in such fantasies. It's only human.