I like the idea of Starfleet marines, but personally I think they got turned into Section 31. MACOs were supposed to be the defensive ground support on away missions back when UFP was still a baby. Now that we have hundreds of worlds in the federation and millions of people the ships crew can defend themselves.
However I would like to see Section 31 related missions... at least one or two.
Nothing directly has so far been built into the system; ground assignments requiring military force use Security department duty officers.
The canonicalness of MACOs in the modern era of Star Trek is one of those hotly-contested questions that I personally try to sidestep where possible.
While not directly specified, Colonel West in Star Trek 6 might've been a "MACO" of the TMP-era. He wore a Starfleet uniform, but had an obviously non-Navy rank.
I like the idea of Starfleet marines, but personally I think they got turned into Section 31.
That doesn't make much sense. Section 31 has existed since at least the mid-2100s and has never been an officially sanctioned agency of Starfleet or the Federation, whereas a "Starfleet Marines" outfit would've been by virtue of its name. How would an officially sanctioned military force end up a secret, non-sanctioned intelligence operation?
That doesn't make much sense. Section 31 has existed since at least the mid-2100s and has never been an officially sanctioned agency of Starfleet or the Federation, whereas a "Starfleet Marines" outfit would've been by virtue of its name. How would an officially sanctioned military force end up a secret, non-sanctioned intelligence operation?
Indeed. And as has been said in the series, and I quote...
"The organization's title came from the original Starfleet Charter, Article 14, Section 31, which allowed for extraordinary measures to be taken in times of extreme threat."
Section 31 has existed since before the Federation was founded, as Starfleet itself was founded several years prior. The marines/MACOs were a different unit, not part of Starfleet during the pre-Federation years. After the formation of the Federation, it's likely they were rolled into Starfleet as "Starfleet Security", or continued to operate as Marine-unit within Starfleet.
However I would like to see Section 31 related missions... at least one or two.
I agree. More Section 31 missions and assignments would be nice to see. Especially, if it leads to factional missions where it affects the dialogue of future missions. Could lead to us defining our characters as By the Book Captains where they stay loyal to the ideals of the Federation or Maverick Captains where doing the right thing sometimes requires the rules to be bent.
The canonicalness of MACOs in the modern era of Star Trek is one of those hotly-contested questions that I personally try to sidestep where possible.
I do believe MACOs are mentioned in the Star Trek Online tie-in book. I seem to recall that the first interview was with a MACO who had been part of a boarding party on an Undine ship
That doesn't make much sense. Section 31 has existed since at least the mid-2100s and has never been an officially sanctioned agency of Starfleet or the Federation, whereas a "Starfleet Marines" outfit would've been by virtue of its name. How would an officially sanctioned military force end up a secret, non-sanctioned intelligence operation?
They could have been disbanded, and even if S31 existed before the UFP, its still plausible if you think about it instead of trying to shoot holes in my idea
Macos are elite soldiers, they were the "starfleet security" basically. The Redshirts. Section 31 is kinda like the CIA, James Bond and Navy Seals all rolled into one. If the Maco were disbanded, it is likely that S31 would recruit them.
But whatever... its a more likely senario than some of the other things that probly have been tossed out there. I honestly can't see the Maco piddling about a starship endlessly waiting for the Captain to haplessly get caught by the Alien de Jour. It would be like asking the Navy Seals to babysit a football game.
There was a few episodes of Section 31 before they were Section 31 in Enterprise. I believe they were trying to recruit Malcolm Reed into their organization.
I say bring on the MACOs. I doubt Starfleet Security is trained for offensive boarding actions and long-term fortification of remote outposts. Just like the Marines fall under the Navy, so does MACO fall under Starfleet.
Macos are elite soldiers, they were the "starfleet security" basically. The Redshirts. Section 31 is kinda like the CIA, James Bond and Navy Seals all rolled into one. If the Maco were disbanded, it is likely that S31 would recruit them.
Okay, I see where you're approaching that idea from now, and, yes, it does seem plausible that Section 31 would want to recruit some former ground forces (whether their organization was called MACO, Starfleet Marines, or wasn't even nominally a separate group at all with a distinct name). From the way you phrased it before, I was picturing Section 31 absorbing whole-sale such a ground force, which doesn't seem to fit with the intelligence angle - they wouldn't need an army, after all, just a (relatively) few operatives with military experience.
Okay, I see where you're approaching that idea from now, and, yes, it does seem plausible that Section 31 would want to recruit some former ground forces (whether their organization was called MACO, Starfleet Marines, or wasn't even nominally a separate group at all with a distinct name). From the way you phrased it before, I was picturing Section 31 absorbing whole-sale such a ground force, which doesn't seem to fit with the intelligence angle - they wouldn't need an army, after all, just a (relatively) few operatives with military experience.
It's doubtful that an intelligence group that wants anonymity would keep standing ground forces.
I like the idea of Starfleet marines, but personally I think they got turned into Section 31. MACOs were supposed to be the defensive ground support on away missions back when UFP was still a baby. Now that we have hundreds of worlds in the federation and millions of people the ships crew can defend themselves.
However I would like to see Section 31 related missions... at least one or two.
Section 31 has nothing to do with MACOs. Section 31 is a secret society, basically. At best a secret arm of Starfleet, most likely strictly speaking illegal even. They will certainly not serve as ground or boarding troops. They act as spies and saboteurs.
Of course some people might want secret-ops style missions (be it for Duty Officers or player characters). But that doesn't require Section 31 either. There is still Starfleet Intelligence, the actual intelligence service for Starfleet or the Federation.
[...]
However I would like to see Section 31 related missions... at least one or two.
I respectfully disagree. We have Section 31 missions both in the romulan and cardassian arc, as well as a full feature series. That is quite enough. I would rather see a Starfleet Intelligence mission NOT involving Section 31 for a change.
Following that train of thoughts Section 31 assignments would be a NO GO too. Maybe one very rare assignment on top of the category tree but I cannot imagine Section 31 handing out assignments like candy. Doesn't go along with the secret society thing.
I've read through the OP (all 5 of 'em! :P) twice now and I gotta say I'm really excited to see this new mechanic. I know it's a (beautifully) disguised TCG but it looks like a great way to while away the time between STF's.
I respectfully disagree. We have Section 31 missions both in the romulan and cardassian arc, as well as a full feature series. That is quite enough. I would rather see a Starfleet Intelligence mission NOT involving Section 31 for a change.
Following that train of thoughts Section 31 assignments would be a NO GO too. Maybe one very rare assignment on top of the category tree but I cannot imagine Section 31 handing out assignments like candy. Doesn't go along with the secret society thing.
You make it sound like we got a S31 mission in every sector of space... we didn't, I think we only got two. And I wasnt asking for more regular style missions, but Doff assignments. One or two assignments would be perfectly fine. They shouldn't pop up immediately and they should only pop up once.
I think it would be kinda cool if you got a doff mission from them, and then you get a critical success rate (not sure how you win it), and then S31 approaches sometime later and wants to recruit the officer that finished the mission.
You would loose the doff of course, but you should get a reward that makes up for it.
These assignment ideas are imagined to be incorporated into normal non-DOff missions, so you would pick up a new exploration mission or territory control mission first and then these assignments would become available to the player. Adapt at your own developers prerogative, and players, discuss at will. All ideas presented to be discussed and the outcome to be determined.
Federation:
Relocate an alien colony before their planets natural disaster causes their extinction (Optional).
A Federation anthropology research team while studying a colony populated by a newly discovered alien species under cloak has determined that the aliens will become extinct due to natural disaster but are either about to become warp capable elsewhere on the planet or members of the research team are threatening to stay behind and sacrifice themselves unless action is taken. Leave them to their fate or break the prime directive and relocate the alien colony from their home-world to a different but suitably similar planet by sending DOffs in disguise to convince as many colonists as possible to follow them.
Please note: When the DOffs complete their mission, the player must return to the planet to beam up the colonists and DOffs to the holodeck for relocation, then find another planet to beam them to.
Time to completion 3d
Reward Data samples, a new duty officer / bridge officer, etc
Disaster X% (No colonists saved, duty officer killed)
Requires A loss of merits, energy credits, etc
Klingon:
Enslave an alien colony before their planets natural disaster causes their extinction (Optional).
A KDF scout ship has discovered a colony populated by a newly discovered alien species that can not defend themselves but could provide a valuable workforce, however the Scout has also determined that the aliens will soon become extinct due to natural disaster. Leave them to their fate or intervene and enslave the alien colony from their home-world by sending DOffs to capture as many of the colonists as possible.
Please note: When the DOffs have completed their mission the player must return to the planet to beam up the colonists and DOffs, then they can be sold off to the Orion Syndicate or put to work else where, maybe you decide?
Time to completion 3d
Reward Data samples, a new duty officer / bridge officer, etc
Disaster X% (No colonists saved, duty officer killed)
Requires A loss of honor, energy credits, etc
Federation:
Provide additional support to one of the Federation colonies before they're attacked by the enemy faction (Optional).
Intelligence reports that one of our colonies is under threat, and have determined that an escorted enemy transport is en-route with ground troops. While attempting to defend the colonies population assign DOffs to make sure that the colonies infrastructure stays intact, water purification structures, power structures, etc.
Time to completion 6h
Reward Merits, energy credits, random level appropriate gift, etc
Chance of success
Critical Success X% (All structures saved, random level appropriate gift x2 rewarded)
Success XX% (Most structures saved, random level appropriate gift rewarded)
Disaster X% (No structures saved, duty officer killed)
Requires A loss of commodities such as, shield generators, water purification systems, etc
Klingon:
Provide additional support to one of the Empires colonies before they're attacked by the enemy faction (Optional).
Intelligence reports that one of our colonies is under threat, and have determined that an escorted enemy transport is en-route with ground troops. While attempting to defend the colonies population assign DOffs to make sure that the colonies infrastructure stays intact, water purification structures, power structures, etc.
Time to completion 6h
Reward Honor, energy credits, random level appropriate gift, etc
Chance of success
Critical Success X% (All structures saved, random level appropriate gift x2 rewarded)
Success XX% (Most structures saved, random level appropriate gift rewarded)
It's doubtful that an intelligence group that wants anonymity would keep standing ground forces.
Right, which is, I believe, what I said - they wouldn't need (or want!) an army, but it's logical enough that a group such as Section 31 might want to recruit some former soldiers into their organization. The CIA does it in current times and I'm sure the intelligence agencies of other countries do the same, so why wouldn't S31 look for former soldiers (both Starfleet and any "MACO" / "Marine" outfits that may or may not exist) who could be useful?
I personally think that Section 31 is already overdone in this game. They are supposed to be a secret clandestine organization in the Federation, akin to the Obsidian Order or Tal Shiar. If you want intelligence operations, might I suggest utilizing Starfleet Intelligence instead?
I never liked Drake and the way that he represents that shadowy organization. That, and he was a TRIBBLE. At least Sloan had some class.
I personally think that Section 31 is already overdone in this game. They are supposed to be a secret clandestine organization in the Federation, akin to the Obsidian Order or Tal Shiar. If you want intelligence operations, might I suggest utilizing Starfleet Intelligence instead?
I never liked Drake and the way that he represents that shadowy organization. That, and he was a TRIBBLE. At least Sloan had some class.
Unlike the argument that the MU is overdone and too common, I will have to agree with this. As much as I like the secret agent them of S31, they shouldnt really be out there as much as they are. I wouldnt have even made the head of S31 visible in the dialogues.
And I didnt even like that mission where you went to the Romulan medical base and killed the lot of them. I thought that was terribly thought out. I cant think of the other one right now.
Meh, I'm not a big fan of having too many Section31 missions, however if they are added I think they should be more morally dubious missions, you know missions that make your doffs have to commit "evil" for the good of the federation, like killing a civilian scientist before he discovers a technology that could tip the balance of power.
On the topic of MACOs, according the the ST wiki they apparently have bases at places like West Point so I kinda assumed they were what became of the old national armies that existed before unification. As such before the UFP it might not be such a long shot to attach a unit to an Earth starship, however once the UFP formed I assume they were regulated to more of a reserve army just in case Earth got attacked or merged into starfleet as an elite ground assault force. (I assume Starfleet conducts ground invasions because it doesn't seem very starfleet to just bomb a planet into submission)
If there was a planet being actively fought over between the UFP and KDF then having a bunch of doff missions related to Starfleet marines and such might work pretty good.
As such before the UFP it might not be such a long shot to attach a unit to an Earth starship, however once the UFP formed I assume they were regulated to more of a reserve army just in case Earth got attacked or merged into starfleet as an elite ground assault force. (I assume Starfleet conducts ground invasions because it doesn't seem very starfleet to just bomb a planet into submission)
We saw who was dispatched to secure and patrol Earth as the UFP feared an attack by the Dominion, and we saw who was on the ground fighting the Jem'hadar during the big War. And in both times it was the Yellowshirts of Starfleet Security.
Let's face it, MACOs became obsolete in the Federation, just like any other traditional United Earth military force. They had their place in ENT as a remnant of the old days of a more violent and aggressive Earth, but as can clearly be seen in the series, their job has been taken over by someone else. I'll probably catch some flak for this, but whilst many will see them as "cool" and "badass", I think they have no place in a Federation-era Starfleet, so I very much approve of Heretic attempting to sidestep the issue.
There's nothing wrong with the idea of a potentially existing specialized branch of elite soldiers within Starfleet Security trained and equipped for warfare beyond the standards, but how they look and what they are called will be personal interpretation, and everyone will quite simply have his own idea regarding that. Me, I think that the Hazard Teams of the "Elite Force" series of computer games are a far more sensible and fitting approach (in that they actually look like they're part of the same outfit) than some corps of elitist cowboys who wear camos in space and whose very name basically screams "aggressor" at every alien species encountered by Federation diplomats.
I personally think that Section 31 is already overdone in this game. They are supposed to be a secret clandestine organization in the Federation, akin to the Obsidian Order or Tal Shiar. If you want intelligence operations, might I suggest utilizing Starfleet Intelligence instead?
Quite so. Even more, it is actually Starfleet Intelligence which would be the counterpart of the Obsidian Order or the Tal Shiar. S31 is really just a group of rogue officers with extremely good connections, who think that laws and regulations don't apply for them as long as all they do is for the very subjective "greater good".
It's a little sad that Starfleet Intelligence has about zero presence in the game because it is considered not "cool" or "edgy" enough.
In retrospect, both the idea of S31 and MACOs are part of the same general trend. They're the "lensflares" and the "big explosions" that some people feel would make everything better. A matter of taste - I can see why many people will not agree, but I think those themes simply run contrary to the more traditional style of Star Trek that I would wish to be present in the game. If I'd want Grimdark, I would play 40k or Star Wars. Actually, I do, but I also play STO, and in here I'd like some Trek please.
still looking around sep 22nd for release to tribble (redshirt)?
We're getting close, but there are a lot of moving pieces that have to be lined up. We're working on a very aggressive series of incentives right now, since we really want to see this system - along with everything else coming down the pipe - thoroughly explored and tested.
We're getting close, but there are a lot of moving pieces that have to be lined up. We're working on a very aggressive series of incentives right now, since we really want to see this system - along with everything else coming down the pipe - thoroughly explored and tested.
Comments
However I would like to see Section 31 related missions... at least one or two.
Ah
While not directly specified, Colonel West in Star Trek 6 might've been a "MACO" of the TMP-era. He wore a Starfleet uniform, but had an obviously non-Navy rank.
Indeed. And as has been said in the series, and I quote...
"The organization's title came from the original Starfleet Charter, Article 14, Section 31, which allowed for extraordinary measures to be taken in times of extreme threat."
Section 31 has existed since before the Federation was founded, as Starfleet itself was founded several years prior. The marines/MACOs were a different unit, not part of Starfleet during the pre-Federation years. After the formation of the Federation, it's likely they were rolled into Starfleet as "Starfleet Security", or continued to operate as Marine-unit within Starfleet.
I agree. More Section 31 missions and assignments would be nice to see. Especially, if it leads to factional missions where it affects the dialogue of future missions. Could lead to us defining our characters as By the Book Captains where they stay loyal to the ideals of the Federation or Maverick Captains where doing the right thing sometimes requires the rules to be bent.
Uh oh, better get MACO.
I do believe MACOs are mentioned in the Star Trek Online tie-in book. I seem to recall that the first interview was with a MACO who had been part of a boarding party on an Undine ship
They could have been disbanded, and even if S31 existed before the UFP, its still plausible if you think about it instead of trying to shoot holes in my idea
Macos are elite soldiers, they were the "starfleet security" basically. The Redshirts. Section 31 is kinda like the CIA, James Bond and Navy Seals all rolled into one. If the Maco were disbanded, it is likely that S31 would recruit them.
But whatever... its a more likely senario than some of the other things that probly have been tossed out there. I honestly can't see the Maco piddling about a starship endlessly waiting for the Captain to haplessly get caught by the Alien de Jour. It would be like asking the Navy Seals to babysit a football game.
Section 31 has nothing to do with MACOs. Section 31 is a secret society, basically. At best a secret arm of Starfleet, most likely strictly speaking illegal even. They will certainly not serve as ground or boarding troops. They act as spies and saboteurs.
Of course some people might want secret-ops style missions (be it for Duty Officers or player characters). But that doesn't require Section 31 either. There is still Starfleet Intelligence, the actual intelligence service for Starfleet or the Federation.
Similar to "Starfleet Intelligence", but with a more clandestine attitude, and an unwavering conviction to protect the "empire" from itself.
I respectfully disagree. We have Section 31 missions both in the romulan and cardassian arc, as well as a full feature series. That is quite enough. I would rather see a Starfleet Intelligence mission NOT involving Section 31 for a change.
Following that train of thoughts Section 31 assignments would be a NO GO too. Maybe one very rare assignment on top of the category tree but I cannot imagine Section 31 handing out assignments like candy. Doesn't go along with the secret society thing.
MACOs are in Needs of the Many...so they are indeed incorporated into STO's timeline
Can't wait!
You make it sound like we got a S31 mission in every sector of space...
I think it would be kinda cool if you got a doff mission from them, and then you get a critical success rate (not sure how you win it), and then S31 approaches sometime later and wants to recruit the officer that finished the mission.
You would loose the doff of course, but you should get a reward that makes up for it.
These assignment ideas are imagined to be incorporated into normal non-DOff missions, so you would pick up a new exploration mission or territory control mission first and then these assignments would become available to the player. Adapt at your own developers prerogative, and players, discuss at will. All ideas presented to be discussed and the outcome to be determined.
Federation:
Relocate an alien colony before their planets natural disaster causes their extinction (Optional).
A Federation anthropology research team while studying a colony populated by a newly discovered alien species under cloak has determined that the aliens will become extinct due to natural disaster but are either about to become warp capable elsewhere on the planet or members of the research team are threatening to stay behind and sacrifice themselves unless action is taken. Leave them to their fate or break the prime directive and relocate the alien colony from their home-world to a different but suitably similar planet by sending DOffs in disguise to convince as many colonists as possible to follow them.
Please note: When the DOffs complete their mission, the player must return to the planet to beam up the colonists and DOffs to the holodeck for relocation, then find another planet to beam them to.
Time to completion 3d
Reward Data samples, a new duty officer / bridge officer, etc
Chance of success
Critical Success X% (All colonists saved, bridge officer rewarded)
Success XX% (Most colonists saved, duty officer rewarded)
Failure XX% (Some colonists saved, injured duty officer)
Disaster X% (No colonists saved, duty officer killed)
Requires A loss of merits, energy credits, etc
Klingon:
Enslave an alien colony before their planets natural disaster causes their extinction (Optional).
A KDF scout ship has discovered a colony populated by a newly discovered alien species that can not defend themselves but could provide a valuable workforce, however the Scout has also determined that the aliens will soon become extinct due to natural disaster. Leave them to their fate or intervene and enslave the alien colony from their home-world by sending DOffs to capture as many of the colonists as possible.
Please note: When the DOffs have completed their mission the player must return to the planet to beam up the colonists and DOffs, then they can be sold off to the Orion Syndicate or put to work else where, maybe you decide?
Time to completion 3d
Reward Data samples, a new duty officer / bridge officer, etc
Chance of success
Critical Success X% (All colonists saved, bridge officer rewarded)
Success XX% (Most colonists saved, duty officer rewarded)
Failure XX% (Some colonists saved, injured duty officer)
Disaster X% (No colonists saved, duty officer killed)
Requires A loss of honor, energy credits, etc
Federation:
Provide additional support to one of the Federation colonies before they're attacked by the enemy faction (Optional).
Intelligence reports that one of our colonies is under threat, and have determined that an escorted enemy transport is en-route with ground troops. While attempting to defend the colonies population assign DOffs to make sure that the colonies infrastructure stays intact, water purification structures, power structures, etc.
Time to completion 6h
Reward Merits, energy credits, random level appropriate gift, etc
Chance of success
Critical Success X% (All structures saved, random level appropriate gift x2 rewarded)
Success XX% (Most structures saved, random level appropriate gift rewarded)
Failure XX% (Some structures saved, injured duty officer)
Disaster X% (No structures saved, duty officer killed)
Requires A loss of commodities such as, shield generators, water purification systems, etc
Klingon:
Provide additional support to one of the Empires colonies before they're attacked by the enemy faction (Optional).
Intelligence reports that one of our colonies is under threat, and have determined that an escorted enemy transport is en-route with ground troops. While attempting to defend the colonies population assign DOffs to make sure that the colonies infrastructure stays intact, water purification structures, power structures, etc.
Time to completion 6h
Reward Honor, energy credits, random level appropriate gift, etc
Chance of success
Critical Success X% (All structures saved, random level appropriate gift x2 rewarded)
Success XX% (Most structures saved, random level appropriate gift rewarded)
Failure XX% (Some structures saved, injured duty officer)
Disaster X% (No structures saved, duty officer killed)
Requires A loss of commodities such as, shield generators, water purification systems, etc
I never liked Drake and the way that he represents that shadowy organization. That, and he was a TRIBBLE. At least Sloan had some class.
Unlike the argument that the MU is overdone and too common, I will have to agree with this. As much as I like the secret agent them of S31, they shouldnt really be out there as much as they are. I wouldnt have even made the head of S31 visible in the dialogues.
And I didnt even like that mission where you went to the Romulan medical base and killed the lot of them. I thought that was terribly thought out. I cant think of the other one right now.
On the topic of MACOs, according the the ST wiki they apparently have bases at places like West Point so I kinda assumed they were what became of the old national armies that existed before unification. As such before the UFP it might not be such a long shot to attach a unit to an Earth starship, however once the UFP formed I assume they were regulated to more of a reserve army just in case Earth got attacked or merged into starfleet as an elite ground assault force. (I assume Starfleet conducts ground invasions because it doesn't seem very starfleet to just bomb a planet into submission)
If there was a planet being actively fought over between the UFP and KDF then having a bunch of doff missions related to Starfleet marines and such might work pretty good.
Let's face it, MACOs became obsolete in the Federation, just like any other traditional United Earth military force. They had their place in ENT as a remnant of the old days of a more violent and aggressive Earth, but as can clearly be seen in the series, their job has been taken over by someone else. I'll probably catch some flak for this, but whilst many will see them as "cool" and "badass", I think they have no place in a Federation-era Starfleet, so I very much approve of Heretic attempting to sidestep the issue.
There's nothing wrong with the idea of a potentially existing specialized branch of elite soldiers within Starfleet Security trained and equipped for warfare beyond the standards, but how they look and what they are called will be personal interpretation, and everyone will quite simply have his own idea regarding that. Me, I think that the Hazard Teams of the "Elite Force" series of computer games are a far more sensible and fitting approach (in that they actually look like they're part of the same outfit) than some corps of elitist cowboys who wear camos in space and whose very name basically screams "aggressor" at every alien species encountered by Federation diplomats.
My thoughs on the subject.
Quite so. Even more, it is actually Starfleet Intelligence which would be the counterpart of the Obsidian Order or the Tal Shiar. S31 is really just a group of rogue officers with extremely good connections, who think that laws and regulations don't apply for them as long as all they do is for the very subjective "greater good".
It's a little sad that Starfleet Intelligence has about zero presence in the game because it is considered not "cool" or "edgy" enough.
In retrospect, both the idea of S31 and MACOs are part of the same general trend. They're the "lensflares" and the "big explosions" that some people feel would make everything better. A matter of taste - I can see why many people will not agree, but I think those themes simply run contrary to the more traditional style of Star Trek that I would wish to be present in the game. If I'd want Grimdark, I would play 40k or Star Wars. Actually, I do, but I also play STO, and in here I'd like some Trek please.
We're getting close, but there are a lot of moving pieces that have to be lined up. We're working on a very aggressive series of incentives right now, since we really want to see this system - along with everything else coming down the pipe - thoroughly explored and tested.
I've wanted to play this FOREVER.
......I hope you all are ready for this. I just hope my expectations aren't set too high, but this looks Sooooooo coooool.
Bring it on Heretic! I ain't scared!!