This is true, the Borg are probably the only faction who've made practical ships in all of Star Trek as well.
Idk, the Voth and Xindi (aquatic) ships were rather nice and looked less vulnerable, and the Intrepid and Sovereign have no neck to speak of.
I think around VOY, the designers got a clue that the neck was a bad idea and phased it out.
I think the Necks on the new ship would actually work rather well. They're curved and that curvature lends it strength against hostile fire. The lower mounting on the hull are a tad thin, but the ship is being developed, its not in its final stage yet, and even so, its not like that mounting is small but any means.
Well, i'm sorry to say that even though they've tweaked it from the original design I still don't like it.
Technically there's nothing wrong with the design and I think it will fit in with the rest of the ships.
But, It's nothing special which in my opinion makes it undeserving of being the new Enterprise.
The Enterprise is supposed to be the flagship of the Federation and as such be the most impressive looking and most technically advanced ship in the fleet.
The chosen design just looks like any other Federation ship and doesn't really stand out or look impressive.
Hell, the Vesta class looks infinitely more impressive, way more advanced / futuristic, and it's an old design in the STO timeline.
Yeah, seems few are warming up to the winning design. The majority of Trekkies just don't like it, even if Probert blessed it.
Doesn't look like Cryptic's Enterprise-F just isn't going to be accepted as canon.
Fortunately for the Enterprise-F then that it has never been fan opinion that determined what was canon and what was not. Also, it is my understanding this entire game was soft-canon or entirely non-canon depending on whom you ask.
This game's forums are full of threads that are nothing but people sniping at each other on various issues; half (which half varies by issue) of them are always unhappy about something. They could have selected any ship on that list of ships and it would have seemed no one liked it. My sympathies are for the poor artist whom was so thoroughly abused by this community that at times it makes me ashamed to be a member.
Fortunately for the Enterprise-F then that it has never been fan opinion that determined what was canon and what was not. Also, it is my understanding this entire game was soft-canon or entirely non-canon depending on whom you ask.
This game's forums are full of threads that are nothing but people sniping at each other on various issues; half (which half varies by issue) of them are always unhappy about something. They could have selected any ship on that list of ships and it would have seemed no one liked it. My sympathies are for the poor artist whom was so thoroughly abused by this community that at times it makes me ashamed to be a member.
i know, poor poor Adam Ihle, he doesn't deserve any of the backlash, threats, complaints and negative whatever else was thrown at him (a lot of it was just plain uncalled for)
it's just a peciluar situation we're in... those who hate the Enterprise-F are very vocal about it, and often brutal with it... those who like or love it don't speak up that often (me included)... and those who think it's meh are even less vocal
While I have to admit that it still doesn't say 'Enterprise' to me, I think the original designers updated art (here) looks a lot better than where the clay model is heading.
I even like the idea of the 'necks' being a Vulcan style warp-ring that stays with the saucer during separation.
I have to agree, that's exactly what I was picturing, and it looks like the devs are not going that direction with it.
I'll also say that while the Voyager and Sovereign show an evolution to a more "organic" look, with an integrated primary and secondary hull, the Excelsior had nearly no neck as well, but was succeeded by the Ambassador and Galaxy. And keep in mind that the entire purpose of the pylons on the Enterprise design in the first place was to protect the crew from the powerful forces emitted by the engines and engineering deck.
The Defiant may mount its warp engines directly on the hull, but it's a mistake to assume there is no sacrifice associated with that. For one thing, the Defiant does not appear capable of operating away from a base for an extended period of time. This may be simply because it is not safe to be on the ship for a long period of time, before the warp drive starts turning you into a tadpole.
Doesn't look like Cryptic's Enterprise-F just isn't going to be accepted as canon.
The game isn't considered canon so your point is moot.
Unless something were to ever happen on TV again, it's up to individuals to distinguish for themselves how the universe continues for them. Essentially, if someone would tell me.. that's not canon!? I would be forced to ask why? Yes elements of STO aren't being shown to us through TV... but we're most likely never going to see anything from the prime universe ever again on TV. So in the end, why does it matter? If I want something to be canon, why would it bother someone else who has completely different views of Trek as a whole. For me, I consider much of the lore surrounding the game - written by Kestrel - as canon because it is very believable as to where things may have gone after Star Trek Nemesis.
I do like the overall design and the unique style of the neck.
However the clay model is looking like it's sat on the sofa for a week eating cheeto's. It could do with the hull section being a little thinner and sleeker as it's a bit podgy at the moment. This could be due to it being a clay model and finesse isn't an option as you need the thing to stay together.
I do hope it's slimmed down just a touch to lose the extra bulk it seems to have picked up and that the neck supports are put on a more forward angle, just a bit though.
Fortunately for the Enterprise-F then that it has never been fan opinion that determined what was canon and what was not. Also, it is my understanding this entire game was soft-canon or entirely non-canon depending on whom you ask.
Dan Stahl stated clearly on STOked that the winner of the Contest was accepted as cannon by CBS. And that it's up to the fans to really accept it or not. But again the majority of Trek fans aren't too open to this design. So in all liklihood, this Enterprise-F will be STO only.
This game's forums are full of threads that are nothing but people sniping at each other on various issues; half (which half varies by issue) of them are always unhappy about something. They could have selected any ship on that list of ships and it would have seemed no one liked it. My sympathies are for the poor artist whom was so thoroughly abused by this community that at times it makes me ashamed to be a member.
Can you blame people for being angry? Fuzzy Modem's ship and Maddens were clear fan favorites and Fuzzy's didn't win, and Madden's got runner-up.
And as for Mr. Ihle, ever since Probert gave his blessing, he no longer cares about people's criticisms. Which is good. However, since this design is supposed to be by the fans for the fans, the fans have the right to state what they like or dislike about it.
And as for Mr. Ihle, ever since Probert gave his blessing, he no longer cares about people's criticisms. Which is good. However, since this design is supposed to be by the fans for the fans, the fans have the right to state what they like or dislike about it.
There is a difference, though, between simply stating a basic like or dislike, and what that poor dude was going through in the follow up weeks after the contest was resolved. It could easily qualify as harassment. He was really stressing out.
Let's face facts: the Star Trek community has been, and always will be, a community of nit-pickers. We are one of the touchiest communities in all of geekdom. No matter whose ship won, I guarantee there would have been scores of "fans" waiting to swoop in and tear it to pieces.
Frankly, we have little to no right to be THAT touchy. Yes, we're entitled to our passions. But what we're not entitled to is behaving like kindergadeners.
This design won. CBS is pretty much gonna accept it as canon. About as Canon as it can get, either way. And frankly, that's good enough for me. Sure I have my opinions on the design. But I'm willing to give it a shot. I mean, let's take a page from the franchise we love so dearly and be civil and understanding about this.
MrJ, I believe all the real Star Trek fans agree with you on this. While trying to be polite as possible, this ship as the next Enterprise is a terrible, terrible mistake.
Who elected you President of Everyone Who Likes Star Trek? I've been watching trek since I was a small child, and not only do I think this design is excellent, but frankly I think a lot of the attacks on the design are being driven by nothing more than sour grapes.
As much as an artist must "develop a thick skin" as so many have stated, individual fans have to stop acting like children because their personal opinion is not taken as final, authoritative gospel. If the aesthetics of the new design offend you; Tough. Make your feelings known without being insulting, then deal with reality, instead of throwing about No True Scotsman fallacies.
MrJ, I believe all the real Star Trek fans agree with you on this. While trying to be polite as possible, this ship as the next Enterprise is a terrible, terrible mistake.
To be honest neither the Excelsior (1701-B) <---- Still think this is the ugliest looking starship in all iof Star Trek (but yes, I do fly one in game as I has good stats, and the Trnswarp abilities can't be beat); nor the 1701-D (second ugliest ship in Star Trek; and I've felt that way since 1987 when I saw the TNG premire) didn't scream 'Enterprise' to me either. Both ships have their fans though.
The Ambassador Class was the last 24th century ship that imo looked like part of the actual 'Enterprise' lineage.
And IMO while I don't hate th Soveriegn per se - I never cared much for the 'flying spoon' look of most latter 24th century era vessels either.
No offense, but what designer of a warship would put such obvious vulnerabilities into the design? You can use whatever Treknobable to justify it being safe, but those struts are just asking for hostiles to target it. Just taking out strut and the entire ship is compromised.
Not with as thick as Cryptic is making them. They should be quite robust, unlike those on the Enterprise prime and the -A.
I Opted for spindly nacelle struts because I felt it suggested a technology beyond what we were familiar with. Matt Jefferies used this same gag on the original series ship with its impossibly thin engine supports. Its nacelles had a floaty appearance, defying the laws of physics. It was my opinion that the ever heavying up of engine struts over the years, took some of the magic out of the Enterprise.
I suppose that makes sense, being that the Ent-J is from the 26th Century and all.
In all honesty, I don't think Cryptic would have picked the design if they didn't believe they could turn it into a good ship - nor would CBS have agreed to it without believing so, too. If they had come and told the Star Trek fanbase, "Here, this is OUR Enterprise-F", we'd just have had to accept the fact. Instead, they gave an actual Trek fan the ability to influence the direction of the Enterprise legacy.
The sheer size of the community backlash against the designer makes me believe that we won't see this kind of playerbase interaction again for quite a while.
I am not a fan of the design. I'll be honest. I don't like it at all.
However...I don't see a point in starting fights over it. I just won't use it.
See I wish more people would take a moderate stance like this... rather than the OMG HATE HATE HATE BURN HATE BURN HAAAAAAAAATE attitude so many people have.
No offense, but what designer of a warship would put such obvious vulnerabilities into the design? You can use whatever Treknobable to justify it being safe, but those struts are just asking for hostiles to target it. Just taking out strut and the entire ship is compromised.
No offense but if you look at nearly every ship in Star Trek besides the borg for places on them to exploit, well then why hasnt anyone ever saw the other guys shields drop and said ok fire on their bridge. I mean on every ship ive seen the bridge is out in the open and easily shot at once shields have dropped. Why worry about firing on the weapons necelles or practically anything when you know you blow that very exposed part of the ship up and youve not only killed off most if not all the senior staff but have taken away most their main stations for controlling practically everything that ship can do.
Tell me if im wrong but from what ive seen where the bridges are placed are usually exposed on the upper part or front part of the ship instead of somewhere more protected like under a couple decks or in the main section of the biggest part of the hull. Im sure they can rig up some cameras to see yet everyone has been placed in a very open area where one good torpedo with the shields down or a transphasic could easy hit it and the fight would be over in a matter of moments. Talk about your flawed designs.
Want to talk about crazy the Klingons are riding on top of where their torpedos fire from. Talk about asking for a stupid design flaw a torpedo doesnt fire down the shaft right and boom, they done blew themselves up lol.
Why didn't they get the lesson from the Defiant and ditched those thin pylons as well?
TBH, the pylons allow:
*The nacelles to be placed in an area of symetry about the ship,
*Are iconic to the Enterprise lineage,
*Spread the ship out, making it look larger than it otherwise would have,
*Sets the IP apart from almost all others,
*Keeps what could be hazardous radiation and materials from the majority of the crew,
*Can be repaired and replaced as modules instead of an integrated part of the ship
So outside of the Wrath Of Khan when the Enterprise blows the nacelle off of the Reliant... can ANYONE point to a single instance where the neck of the ship or the nacelle PYLONS themselves were at risk? Or damaged? Or about to become an issue? Or ever mentioned as a potential trouble-point?
I can think of one or two from the novels... but aside from TWOK I can't think of a single on-screen incident.
Plenty of warp-core burps... a few nacelle problems... but never a structural problem with the neck or pylons.
So outside of the Wrath Of Khan when the Enterprise blows the nacelle off of the Reliant... can ANYONE point to a single instance where the neck of the ship or the nacelle PYLONS themselves were at risk? Or damaged? Or about to become an issue? Or ever mentioned as a potential trouble-point?
I can think of one or two from the novels... but aside from TWOK I can't think of a single on-screen incident.
Plenty of warp-core burps... a few nacelle problems... but never a structural problem with the neck or pylons.
Hmmm...
I think there was one episode where the Boseman came through a spacial rift that the pylons caused a problem in TNG, but that ship had huge pylons comparatively
Comments
dont know, maybe the y is supposed to be something else, i pulled that right from the website. lol..
Idk, the Voth and Xindi (aquatic) ships were rather nice and looked less vulnerable, and the Intrepid and Sovereign have no neck to speak of.
I think around VOY, the designers got a clue that the neck was a bad idea and phased it out.
I think the Necks on the new ship would actually work rather well. They're curved and that curvature lends it strength against hostile fire. The lower mounting on the hull are a tad thin, but the ship is being developed, its not in its final stage yet, and even so, its not like that mounting is small but any means.
Technically there's nothing wrong with the design and I think it will fit in with the rest of the ships.
But, It's nothing special which in my opinion makes it undeserving of being the new Enterprise.
The Enterprise is supposed to be the flagship of the Federation and as such be the most impressive looking and most technically advanced ship in the fleet.
The chosen design just looks like any other Federation ship and doesn't really stand out or look impressive.
Hell, the Vesta class looks infinitely more impressive, way more advanced / futuristic, and it's an old design in the STO timeline.
It feels like a bit of step back, and not that much of an Enterprise.
A background Trek ship maybe, but not an Enterprise, no offense to the creator.
Doesn't look like Cryptic's Enterprise-F just isn't going to be accepted as canon.
Fortunately for the Enterprise-F then that it has never been fan opinion that determined what was canon and what was not. Also, it is my understanding this entire game was soft-canon or entirely non-canon depending on whom you ask.
This game's forums are full of threads that are nothing but people sniping at each other on various issues; half (which half varies by issue) of them are always unhappy about something. They could have selected any ship on that list of ships and it would have seemed no one liked it. My sympathies are for the poor artist whom was so thoroughly abused by this community that at times it makes me ashamed to be a member.
it's just a peciluar situation we're in... those who hate the Enterprise-F are very vocal about it, and often brutal with it... those who like or love it don't speak up that often (me included)... and those who think it's meh are even less vocal
I have to agree, that's exactly what I was picturing, and it looks like the devs are not going that direction with it.
I'll also say that while the Voyager and Sovereign show an evolution to a more "organic" look, with an integrated primary and secondary hull, the Excelsior had nearly no neck as well, but was succeeded by the Ambassador and Galaxy. And keep in mind that the entire purpose of the pylons on the Enterprise design in the first place was to protect the crew from the powerful forces emitted by the engines and engineering deck.
The Defiant may mount its warp engines directly on the hull, but it's a mistake to assume there is no sacrifice associated with that. For one thing, the Defiant does not appear capable of operating away from a base for an extended period of time. This may be simply because it is not safe to be on the ship for a long period of time, before the warp drive starts turning you into a tadpole.
The game isn't considered canon so your point is moot.
Unless something were to ever happen on TV again, it's up to individuals to distinguish for themselves how the universe continues for them. Essentially, if someone would tell me.. that's not canon!? I would be forced to ask why? Yes elements of STO aren't being shown to us through TV... but we're most likely never going to see anything from the prime universe ever again on TV. So in the end, why does it matter? If I want something to be canon, why would it bother someone else who has completely different views of Trek as a whole. For me, I consider much of the lore surrounding the game - written by Kestrel - as canon because it is very believable as to where things may have gone after Star Trek Nemesis.
However the clay model is looking like it's sat on the sofa for a week eating cheeto's. It could do with the hull section being a little thinner and sleeker as it's a bit podgy at the moment. This could be due to it being a clay model and finesse isn't an option as you need the thing to stay together.
I do hope it's slimmed down just a touch to lose the extra bulk it seems to have picked up and that the neck supports are put on a more forward angle, just a bit though.
Dan Stahl stated clearly on STOked that the winner of the Contest was accepted as cannon by CBS. And that it's up to the fans to really accept it or not. But again the majority of Trek fans aren't too open to this design. So in all liklihood, this Enterprise-F will be STO only.
Can you blame people for being angry? Fuzzy Modem's ship and Maddens were clear fan favorites and Fuzzy's didn't win, and Madden's got runner-up.
And as for Mr. Ihle, ever since Probert gave his blessing, he no longer cares about people's criticisms. Which is good. However, since this design is supposed to be by the fans for the fans, the fans have the right to state what they like or dislike about it.
There is a difference, though, between simply stating a basic like or dislike, and what that poor dude was going through in the follow up weeks after the contest was resolved. It could easily qualify as harassment. He was really stressing out.
Let's face facts: the Star Trek community has been, and always will be, a community of nit-pickers. We are one of the touchiest communities in all of geekdom. No matter whose ship won, I guarantee there would have been scores of "fans" waiting to swoop in and tear it to pieces.
Frankly, we have little to no right to be THAT touchy. Yes, we're entitled to our passions. But what we're not entitled to is behaving like kindergadeners.
This design won. CBS is pretty much gonna accept it as canon. About as Canon as it can get, either way. And frankly, that's good enough for me. Sure I have my opinions on the design. But I'm willing to give it a shot. I mean, let's take a page from the franchise we love so dearly and be civil and understanding about this.
Who elected you President of Everyone Who Likes Star Trek? I've been watching trek since I was a small child, and not only do I think this design is excellent, but frankly I think a lot of the attacks on the design are being driven by nothing more than sour grapes.
As much as an artist must "develop a thick skin" as so many have stated, individual fans have to stop acting like children because their personal opinion is not taken as final, authoritative gospel. If the aesthetics of the new design offend you; Tough. Make your feelings known without being insulting, then deal with reality, instead of throwing about No True Scotsman fallacies.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~InfoNinja
The Ambassador Class was the last 24th century ship that imo looked like part of the actual 'Enterprise' lineage.
And IMO while I don't hate th Soveriegn per se - I never cared much for the 'flying spoon' look of most latter 24th century era vessels either.
YMMV.
Not with as thick as Cryptic is making them. They should be quite robust, unlike those on the Enterprise prime and the -A.
LOL
oh wow.
Anyway, for everyone complaining about the neck. The Enterprise J looked kinda flimsy on the pylons, right?
http://suricatasblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/universe.png
Flimsy, yes, flimsy.
Doug Drexler explained the reason for the spindly nacelles on his blog.
I suppose that makes sense, being that the Ent-J is from the 26th Century and all.
In all honesty, I don't think Cryptic would have picked the design if they didn't believe they could turn it into a good ship - nor would CBS have agreed to it without believing so, too. If they had come and told the Star Trek fanbase, "Here, this is OUR Enterprise-F", we'd just have had to accept the fact. Instead, they gave an actual Trek fan the ability to influence the direction of the Enterprise legacy.
The sheer size of the community backlash against the designer makes me believe that we won't see this kind of playerbase interaction again for quite a while.
However...I don't see a point in starting fights over it. I just won't use it.
Oh, I meant it out of sarcasm, in the picture, the nacelle strut of the massive Enterprise J is STILL thick when compared to the Galaxy class.
See I wish more people would take a moderate stance like this... rather than the OMG HATE HATE HATE BURN HATE BURN HAAAAAAAAATE attitude so many people have.
No offense but if you look at nearly every ship in Star Trek besides the borg for places on them to exploit, well then why hasnt anyone ever saw the other guys shields drop and said ok fire on their bridge. I mean on every ship ive seen the bridge is out in the open and easily shot at once shields have dropped. Why worry about firing on the weapons necelles or practically anything when you know you blow that very exposed part of the ship up and youve not only killed off most if not all the senior staff but have taken away most their main stations for controlling practically everything that ship can do.
Tell me if im wrong but from what ive seen where the bridges are placed are usually exposed on the upper part or front part of the ship instead of somewhere more protected like under a couple decks or in the main section of the biggest part of the hull. Im sure they can rig up some cameras to see yet everyone has been placed in a very open area where one good torpedo with the shields down or a transphasic could easy hit it and the fight would be over in a matter of moments. Talk about your flawed designs.
Want to talk about crazy the Klingons are riding on top of where their torpedos fire from. Talk about asking for a stupid design flaw a torpedo doesnt fire down the shaft right and boom, they done blew themselves up lol.
Oh right, fair enough - I see what you mean now.
TBH, the pylons allow:
*The nacelles to be placed in an area of symetry about the ship,
*Are iconic to the Enterprise lineage,
*Spread the ship out, making it look larger than it otherwise would have,
*Sets the IP apart from almost all others,
*Keeps what could be hazardous radiation and materials from the majority of the crew,
*Can be repaired and replaced as modules instead of an integrated part of the ship
I probably could go on and on
I can think of one or two from the novels... but aside from TWOK I can't think of a single on-screen incident.
Plenty of warp-core burps... a few nacelle problems... but never a structural problem with the neck or pylons.
Hmmm...
I think there was one episode where the Boseman came through a spacial rift that the pylons caused a problem in TNG, but that ship had huge pylons comparatively