I'll also say that while the Voyager and Sovereign show an evolution to a more "organic" look, with an integrated primary and secondary hull, the Excelsior had nearly no neck as well, but was succeeded by the Ambassador and Galaxy.
But none of that really matters much. STO is placed in the 25th century. Designs change. And Trek itself has rebooted itself back to the original looking ships with the JJ verse.
Clean slate time.
It's the differences that really help me like this ship. It's new. It's different. It's an enterprise I am excited to get a chance to captain.
No offense but if you look at nearly every ship in Star Trek besides the borg for places on them to exploit, well then why hasnt anyone ever saw the other guys shields drop and said ok fire on their bridge. I mean on every ship ive seen the bridge is out in the open and easily shot at once shields have dropped. Why worry about firing on the weapons necelles or practically anything when you know you blow that very exposed part of the ship up and youve not only killed off most if not all the senior staff but have taken away most their main stations for controlling practically everything that ship can do.
Feel free to watch Wrath of Khan, again. The Enterprise fired at the Reliant's Bridge, took out the Torpedo Launcher, and blew off one of the Warp Nacelles.
As for the Bridge out in the Open, this isn't Battlestar Galactica where the CIC is deep inside the ship. This is a Star Trek Staple.
[Tell me if im wrong but from what ive seen where the bridges are placed are usually exposed on the upper part or front part of the ship instead of somewhere more protected like under a couple decks or in the main section of the biggest part of the hull. Im sure they can rig up some cameras to see yet everyone has been placed in a very open area where one good torpedo with the shields down or a transphasic could easy hit it and the fight would be over in a matter of moments. Talk about your flawed designs.
Want to talk about crazy the Klingons are riding on top of where their torpedos fire from. Talk about asking for a stupid design flaw a torpedo doesnt fire down the shaft right and boom, they done blew themselves up lol.
You could say that about any torpedo launcher. How about the ones that were located at the end of the Sovereigns bridge during the Nemesis refit?
Say what you will, people may think in this case "two is better than one", but that isn't so. If this ship is in combat, then the ship is manuvering at high speeds, which puts stress on the structure. If the SIF cannot handle it, the saucer ends up ripping off and it would likely fly into one of the warp pylons, crippling the ship.
But hey this is a game right, who cares about what fans think.
If this ship is in combat, then the ship is manuvering at high speeds, which puts stress on the structure. If the SIF cannot handle it, the saucer ends up ripping off and it would likely fly into one of the warp pylons, crippling the ship.
high speed traveling puts a lot of the stress at the center of the ship, so a lot of the stress went to the central neck of the other enterprise's
two necks however, according to the devs (at least i think), put less stress on the ship during high speeds
and also, SIF is designed to handle low warp speeds easily, so it can handle combat speeds without even trying (and therefore, there's no stress unless they're doing high warp maneuvers)
I'll just clarify my position and likely a lot of other peoples too. This is not a dig on the artist, I'm sure he is quite talented. I (We) just don't like his design or that Cryptic chose it over some designs we consider much better.
I will just reiterate what I said previously, when you put your art out for the world to see, you better have a thick enough skin to be able to handle when people don't like it.
And, I suppose the reverse is true? When your preferred choice doesn't win, it's understandable that there will be commentary as to why, but you should have a thick enough skin to understand that your starship didn't win the race.
Its fine to discuss it in a reasonable manner and disagree with the design. Like issues with the twin necks and whatnot. But to see so many posts bashing it without reason just on these forums, i can only imagine just how much hatemail and flack adam got from other sectors.
I dont think he 'abandoned' his design because of negative feedback. It sounds more like he got threats, insults, etc. Which i unfortunately do believe Star Trek fans ARE capable of. Its no different from the kind the tv crew got during the Enterprise series when it was still airing.
Which just serves to reinforce my image of the majority of die-hard star trek fans as merely fans of 'My Trek', not 'Star Trek'.
high speed traveling puts a lot of the stress at the center of the ship, so a lot of the stress went to the central neck of the other enterprise's
two necks however, according to the devs (at least i think), put less stress on the ship during high speeds
and also, SIF is designed to handle low warp speeds easily, so it can handle combat speeds without even trying (and therefore, there's no stress unless they're doing high warp maneuvers)
i could be wrong about this though
Not to mention that by the same logic the nacelles should go flying off every time any ship in Trek turns. Trek ships aren't practical. Period.
But none of that really matters much. STO is placed in the 25th century. Designs change. And Trek itself has rebooted itself back to the original looking ships with the JJ verse.
Clean slate time.
It's the differences that really help me like this ship. It's new. It's different. It's an enterprise I am excited to get a chance to captain.
Wrong. Trek itself hasn't been rebooted as a whole, it's simply been split in 2. Two properties and two realities, the movie Trek belongs to Paramount while the TV Trek belongs to CBS. The new "movie" Trek doesn't affect anything in this game and it doesn't negate what's been established as canon. The "clean slate" you speak of only affects future movies and nothing more.
I have every faith in CapnLogan's ability to make a great ship. Having said that I'm not a fan of the original design. Can CapnLogan make the ship beautiful? Sure he can. However it's still a beautiful ship based on design I don't like. I was talking to a friend about the dev diary and I told her that I thought it was a nice looking model, but it's a nice looking model of a ship I don't like. It's like the Oberth that's in game. The work done on the Oberth is impressive but I still can't stand the way the ship looks.
Wow...I'm going to live off of your post for months...it warmed the cockles of my crusty, sarcastic heart.
Personally, I want to get my hands on this ship design in-game, and see what it can do...if it's a tanky behemoth like my VA Soverign is, I'll be quite happen to fly this around...and I doubt I'll ever see the F in-game while I'm doing it.
The design would benefit from a third smaller neck in the center; almost looks like there is one in the sketch, but that is probably the far side pylon. This third central neck could extend down the engineering hull to give that big blank space a little more visual impact, and some added structural integrity.
Okay, now it looks like an illegitimate child of a Sovereign and an Oberth with hypothyroidism, instead of the illegitimate child of a Galaxy and Oberth.
The top profile mostly looks like a flabby version of the Sovereign, the side profile looks like a Galaxy squished into Excelsior proportions, and the way the twin necks curl into the front profile makes even that look extra-lumpy.
Really starting to look a lot like the lumpy, bland, and wacky-nacelled Typhoon though. I wonder if one of the reasons they picked it was because it'd be easy to meld that into a variant?
high speed traveling puts a lot of the stress at the center of the ship, so a lot of the stress went to the central neck of the other enterprise's two necks however, according to the devs (at least i think), put less stress on the ship during high speeds
and also, SIF is designed to handle low warp speeds easily, so it can handle combat speeds without even trying (and therefore, there's no stress unless they're doing high warp maneuvers)
i could be wrong about this though
I really think anyone on the Dev Team took courses in Structural Engineering. But Matt Jefferies actually was well versed in engineering.
The SIF is just force fields around the bulkheads to lessen structural stresses, it's not a cure all. The higher the speeds or manuvering, the greater the stresses on the structure. That's why you don't see large cruisers pulling off realistic side-slipping of real spaceships or stunts you saw Vipers do on BSG.
But the stresses on these double necks isn't as easy as it seems.
First off you would have large ammounts of sheer stress of the necks as the saucer's impulse engines pushes the entire ship. So essentially 5 metric tons of the Secondary hull is being pulled from these thin structures. While the bottom may be more secure due to the larger area, the top of the saucer isn't. Then you will have tensile strength of these necks as the saucer is thrusting foward and pulling the rest of the ship. So if you would, the saucer would be stretching foward from these points like a weak glued joint.
Now its okay with the Oberth because it's a small ship, a non-combat vessel, and these connections are far thicker than the Ihle's Enterprise-F.
That's why Single necks were far studier and got thicker over time to the point the necks disappeared altogether with the Sovereign, the Intrepid, the Sabre, the Akira, etc.
But I doubt anyone cares for this is a game. However, feel free to test what I said by making models yourself out of oh paper and such. Though don't think the plastic models that would be made if this thing is indeed going to be cannon will last long.
So outside of the Wrath Of Khan when the Enterprise blows the nacelle off of the Reliant... can ANYONE point to a single instance where the neck of the ship or the nacelle PYLONS themselves were at risk? Or damaged? Or about to become an issue? Or ever mentioned as a potential trouble-point?
I can think of one or two from the novels... but aside from TWOK I can't think of a single on-screen incident.
Plenty of warp-core burps... a few nacelle problems... but never a structural problem with the neck or pylons.
Hmmm...
TNG but mostly due to saucer separation.
Also, considering they're the thinnest parts of the hull, it would make sense to go for the neck or pylons.
I think this diary was a great idea. I look forward to following the trials and tribble-ations toward a final design.
Having read some of the critical observations thus far, I'm reminded of a debate I got into with a fellow fan when The Next Generation first aired on television.
Me: So what do you think of the Galaxy-class?
Friend: How could they? It flies in the face of warp dynamics!
Me: Warp dynamics according to who, exactly?
My friend goes on to relate an #irc group he was a part of. Like myself, some were fans of a variety of fan written, fan published starship technical blueprints or manuals. It was an amazing period of innovative ideas at a time of very little Star Trek. Save a few films. I still hold some of manuals in high esteem. As they are, IMO, incredible works. However, as much I enjoy them the authors/artists never did establish with certainty that which is or that which isn't acceptable for good design. All of it was/is mere conjecture and opinion.
MrJ, I believe all the real Star Trek fans agree with you on this.
While I don't particularly care for (most aspects of) the design either, I gotta say that you're waaay outta line to say something like that. You really have no business making a claim that there is a distinction between who is and who isn't a "real" fan based on whether or not people like or dislike this ship.
I like what they did with the design and am glad that it is not again a round saucer. The egg shaped saucer suits the design better I think, seeing this I think it could be a worthy Enterprise successor after all.:)
While I don't particularly care for (most aspects of) the design either, I gotta say that you're waaay outta line to say something like that. You really have no business making a claim that there is a distinction between who is and who isn't a "real" fan based on whether or not people like or dislike this ship.
:rolleyes:
Would it be irony if "real Startrek fans" were close-minded people trying to keep the riff-raff out?
i think the design is ok, but also nothing special atm to be honest. Except the dual necks, of course... but i really don't like the dual necks... they don't feel like TREK for me. Trek design was always a perfect combination of functionality and design. Connecting the saucer section to the engineering with a dual neck is just illogical. Why should they do it? The single neck was the perfect combination of functionality/design.
This is such a safe design, nothing too radical or inspiring, a true variant/refit to the Sovie, you could almost see a c-store skin show up really.
The necks appear to serve as impulse winglets for the Primary upon saucer separation, maybe there are more separation modules in this design? Its puzzling indeed!
The Warp Drives are safe in appearance, nothing big, no Transwarp, Slipstream radical speedster design...just Sovieish, a few steps forward maybe.
It's size? Will it really be huge? Will it claim the size title compared to the Galaxy or its Dreadnought in-game. Wish the Emissary owned that title first. Scale is so out of whack in-game anyway.
When looking at this can anyone answer what it can do better than the Sovie or the Emissary, the Galaxy or it's Dreadnought variant?
What makes the Enterprise - F better than those before her?
What special features of advanced design were incorporated into the F to make it stand out as Star Fleet's answer to its specifications for the conflicts ahead and present in the STOverse? Thats is unless she was not designed for war but for something else?
All I'm seeing atm is a safe design for a Sovie skin, there is nothing that radical in how the neck is displayed and why in any case was there a need for a trimaran between primary and secondary?
Trimaran is a very vulnerable structure, why risk the potential for a Dominion style neck strike?
Is there something about this ship we are not immediately seeing?
Will this ship face up to the Iconian threat? What was it designed to face up to? Was it designed to face up to anything?
So far I'm just seeing a new Enterprise-F scream SAFE IP! meh...
Now when the Galaxy appeared THAT was a controversial and radical design that got everyone talking! Still does!
It most certainly created an iconic reinvention of the Enterprise and stirred up enough dust to relaunch Star Trek globally and successfully.
Great way to promote something than just samo samo ho hum! ^^
This guy is right. It's too "Sovereign with Oberth-like features and extra lumpiness" to really be something forward and new. I'm not sure why this design generated a lot of internal discussion, supposedly, except for 'wtf is that neck?' which isn't how I'd judge a good entry.
Now, that one that got the most fan votes, which I actually didn't like overall either, that one struck a great, energetic profile from some views and then made me go 'wait, what?" from some others. It was a departure from standard cruiser geometry, edging a little bit toward the arrangement of the bothersome 1701-J without actually mimicking anything or jumping off the cliff of absolute absurdity.
So outside of the Wrath Of Khan when the Enterprise blows the nacelle off of the Reliant... can ANYONE point to a single instance where the neck of the ship or the nacelle PYLONS themselves were at risk? Or damaged? Or about to become an issue? Or ever mentioned as a potential trouble-point?
I can think of one or two from the novels... but aside from TWOK I can't think of a single on-screen incident.
Plenty of warp-core burps... a few nacelle problems... but never a structural problem with the neck or pylons.
Hmmm...
1) The aforementioned Wrath of Khan: The Enterprise blows off the the Reliant's warp nacelle, that dome-thing behind the bridge, scores either a direct or near hit to the bridge, and takes out its torpedo launcher. The Reliant, for it's parts, slices a neat little section out of one side of the Enterprise's torpedo launcher, located at the bast of the latter's neck...
2) "Cause and Effect" (TNG): The time displaced Bozeman stikes the Enterprise-D's starboard warp nacelle, causing a cascade reaction that destroys the ship (one could assume the same happens to the Bozeman, since it was a nacelle-on-nacelle strike). Over and over and over...
3) "The Chase" (TNG): Two Cardassian cruisers fire their phasers on the warp nacelles of both the Enterprise and a Klingon ship. Along with some sabotage, this was clearly meant to disable both ship's warp capabilities. Only early detection prevented the Enterprise from being damaged (the Klingons weren't so fortunate, even though they too had advanced warning).
4) Star Trek: Generations: B'Etor was clearly heard ordering the weapons officer to "target their bridge" before the Enterprise crew managed to hack the Duras sisters' cloaking device and destroy them.
5) "The Jem'Hadar" (DS9): During the space battle between the Jem'Hadar and the Federation, the initial shots from the Jem'Hadar fighters clearly takes out a warp nacelle of the Odyssey (and given how "efficient" the Jem'Hadar are described, I doubt it was an accident). At the end of the fight, when the one Jem'Hadar fighter rams the Odyssey, it's clearly aiming for the section where the secondary/engineering hull connects with the ship's neck (although the damage indicated that it took out the deflector dish and the forward torpedo launcher).
6) "Tears of the Prophets" (DS9): Once again, the Jem'Hadar are shown ramming their ships into others, though their targets are Klingon ships this time. And again, the Jem'Hadar are shown deliberately targeting the long neck brace that connects the command "bulb" with the engineering sections. It doesn't matter if their Birds-of-Prey or the larger Attack Cruisers: apparently, a ship's "neck" is, for the Jem'Hadar at least, a bullseye target.
I'm sure others could find other examples besides theses.
You know, I find it greatly amusing that so many people are giving the chosen design so much flak for having a neck somewhat inspired by the Oberth's design, while most of the people I've seen making the most complaints about it keep referencing a model that, to me, looks like a 25th century Oberth, period.
You know, I find it greatly amusing that so many people are giving the chosen design so much flak for having a neck somewhat inspired by the Oberth's design, while most of the people I've seen making the most complaints about it keep referencing a model that, to me, looks like a 25th century Oberth, period.
Exactly which design are you talking about people talking about? I can't think of one that fits that description.
You know, I find it greatly amusing that so many people are giving the chosen design so much flak for having a neck somewhat inspired by the Oberth's design, while most of the people I've seen making the most complaints about it keep referencing a model that, to me, looks like a 25th century Oberth, period.
Well, let's face it; necks on starships have been going out of style within Starfleet since Voyager (and the Intrepid-class in general) was revealed. Kinda got thrown out in First Contact; none of the new ships revealed in that film have "necks" as we have been familiar with. The Akira and Steamrunner classes (and perhaps the Norway) have pylons, but that's different from a neck.
Which is one of my major objections to the design of the F (and by extention, the J); it doesn't follow the more streamline design pattern Starfleet was apparently establishing after First Contact. But as others have said, I'm not going to make a big brew hah-hah out of it. As with the Galaxy-X (which I don't like either) I just won't play it and won't object if others do.
I just do not like the front end of the ship as it is currently. There are oberth necks on the ship. I can see there being a 1/2 neck, or it was built into the secondary hull, but what I am seeing is something that connects a well-designed saucer into a moderately designed secondary hull. I think that area needs to be worked on before it shall be accepted in the minds of many fans.
Note to OP...you can be a fan and not like necks...I sure don't have one
Comments
The support itself not the nacelle itself.
But none of that really matters much. STO is placed in the 25th century. Designs change. And Trek itself has rebooted itself back to the original looking ships with the JJ verse.
Clean slate time.
It's the differences that really help me like this ship. It's new. It's different. It's an enterprise I am excited to get a chance to captain.
Feel free to watch Wrath of Khan, again. The Enterprise fired at the Reliant's Bridge, took out the Torpedo Launcher, and blew off one of the Warp Nacelles.
As for the Bridge out in the Open, this isn't Battlestar Galactica where the CIC is deep inside the ship. This is a Star Trek Staple.
You could say that about any torpedo launcher. How about the ones that were located at the end of the Sovereigns bridge during the Nemesis refit?
Say what you will, people may think in this case "two is better than one", but that isn't so. If this ship is in combat, then the ship is manuvering at high speeds, which puts stress on the structure. If the SIF cannot handle it, the saucer ends up ripping off and it would likely fly into one of the warp pylons, crippling the ship.
But hey this is a game right, who cares about what fans think.
two necks however, according to the devs (at least i think), put less stress on the ship during high speeds
and also, SIF is designed to handle low warp speeds easily, so it can handle combat speeds without even trying (and therefore, there's no stress unless they're doing high warp maneuvers)
i could be wrong about this though
And, I suppose the reverse is true? When your preferred choice doesn't win, it's understandable that there will be commentary as to why, but you should have a thick enough skin to understand that your starship didn't win the race.
/signed in hearty agreement!
Not to mention that by the same logic the nacelles should go flying off every time any ship in Trek turns. Trek ships aren't practical. Period.
Wrong. Trek itself hasn't been rebooted as a whole, it's simply been split in 2. Two properties and two realities, the movie Trek belongs to Paramount while the TV Trek belongs to CBS. The new "movie" Trek doesn't affect anything in this game and it doesn't negate what's been established as canon. The "clean slate" you speak of only affects future movies and nothing more.
I have every faith in CapnLogan's ability to make a great ship. Having said that I'm not a fan of the original design. Can CapnLogan make the ship beautiful? Sure he can. However it's still a beautiful ship based on design I don't like. I was talking to a friend about the dev diary and I told her that I thought it was a nice looking model, but it's a nice looking model of a ship I don't like. It's like the Oberth that's in game. The work done on the Oberth is impressive but I still can't stand the way the ship looks.
Wow...I'm going to live off of your post for months...it warmed the cockles of my crusty, sarcastic heart.
Personally, I want to get my hands on this ship design in-game, and see what it can do...if it's a tanky behemoth like my VA Soverign is, I'll be quite happen to fly this around...and I doubt I'll ever see the F in-game while I'm doing it.
The top profile mostly looks like a flabby version of the Sovereign, the side profile looks like a Galaxy squished into Excelsior proportions, and the way the twin necks curl into the front profile makes even that look extra-lumpy.
Really starting to look a lot like the lumpy, bland, and wacky-nacelled Typhoon though. I wonder if one of the reasons they picked it was because it'd be easy to meld that into a variant?
I really think anyone on the Dev Team took courses in Structural Engineering. But Matt Jefferies actually was well versed in engineering.
The SIF is just force fields around the bulkheads to lessen structural stresses, it's not a cure all. The higher the speeds or manuvering, the greater the stresses on the structure. That's why you don't see large cruisers pulling off realistic side-slipping of real spaceships or stunts you saw Vipers do on BSG.
But the stresses on these double necks isn't as easy as it seems.
First off you would have large ammounts of sheer stress of the necks as the saucer's impulse engines pushes the entire ship. So essentially 5 metric tons of the Secondary hull is being pulled from these thin structures. While the bottom may be more secure due to the larger area, the top of the saucer isn't. Then you will have tensile strength of these necks as the saucer is thrusting foward and pulling the rest of the ship. So if you would, the saucer would be stretching foward from these points like a weak glued joint.
Now its okay with the Oberth because it's a small ship, a non-combat vessel, and these connections are far thicker than the Ihle's Enterprise-F.
That's why Single necks were far studier and got thicker over time to the point the necks disappeared altogether with the Sovereign, the Intrepid, the Sabre, the Akira, etc.
But I doubt anyone cares for this is a game. However, feel free to test what I said by making models yourself out of oh paper and such. Though don't think the plastic models that would be made if this thing is indeed going to be cannon will last long.
Also, considering they're the thinnest parts of the hull, it would make sense to go for the neck or pylons.
They said the same thing about the Galaxy-class and the NX-class at one point too.
Having read some of the critical observations thus far, I'm reminded of a debate I got into with a fellow fan when The Next Generation first aired on television.
Friend: How could they? It flies in the face of warp dynamics!
Me: Warp dynamics according to who, exactly?
My friend goes on to relate an #irc group he was a part of. Like myself, some were fans of a variety of fan written, fan published starship technical blueprints or manuals. It was an amazing period of innovative ideas at a time of very little Star Trek. Save a few films. I still hold some of manuals in high esteem. As they are, IMO, incredible works. However, as much I enjoy them the authors/artists never did establish with certainty that which is or that which isn't acceptable for good design. All of it was/is mere conjecture and opinion.
:rolleyes:
Would it be irony if "real Startrek fans" were close-minded people trying to keep the riff-raff out?
i think the design is ok, but also nothing special atm to be honest. Except the dual necks, of course... but i really don't like the dual necks... they don't feel like TREK for me. Trek design was always a perfect combination of functionality and design. Connecting the saucer section to the engineering with a dual neck is just illogical. Why should they do it? The single neck was the perfect combination of functionality/design.
The necks appear to serve as impulse winglets for the Primary upon saucer separation, maybe there are more separation modules in this design? Its puzzling indeed!
The Warp Drives are safe in appearance, nothing big, no Transwarp, Slipstream radical speedster design...just Sovieish, a few steps forward maybe.
It's size? Will it really be huge? Will it claim the size title compared to the Galaxy or its Dreadnought in-game. Wish the Emissary owned that title first. Scale is so out of whack in-game anyway.
When looking at this can anyone answer what it can do better than the Sovie or the Emissary, the Galaxy or it's Dreadnought variant?
What makes the Enterprise - F better than those before her?
What special features of advanced design were incorporated into the F to make it stand out as Star Fleet's answer to its specifications for the conflicts ahead and present in the STOverse? Thats is unless she was not designed for war but for something else?
All I'm seeing atm is a safe design for a Sovie skin, there is nothing that radical in how the neck is displayed and why in any case was there a need for a trimaran between primary and secondary?
Trimaran is a very vulnerable structure, why risk the potential for a Dominion style neck strike?
Is there something about this ship we are not immediately seeing?
Will this ship face up to the Iconian threat? What was it designed to face up to? Was it designed to face up to anything?
So far I'm just seeing a new Enterprise-F scream SAFE IP! meh...
Now when the Galaxy appeared THAT was a controversial and radical design that got everyone talking! Still does!
It most certainly created an iconic reinvention of the Enterprise and stirred up enough dust to relaunch Star Trek globally and successfully.
Great way to promote something than just samo samo ho hum! ^^
This guy is right. It's too "Sovereign with Oberth-like features and extra lumpiness" to really be something forward and new. I'm not sure why this design generated a lot of internal discussion, supposedly, except for 'wtf is that neck?' which isn't how I'd judge a good entry.
Now, that one that got the most fan votes, which I actually didn't like overall either, that one struck a great, energetic profile from some views and then made me go 'wait, what?" from some others. It was a departure from standard cruiser geometry, edging a little bit toward the arrangement of the bothersome 1701-J without actually mimicking anything or jumping off the cliff of absolute absurdity.
1) The aforementioned Wrath of Khan: The Enterprise blows off the the Reliant's warp nacelle, that dome-thing behind the bridge, scores either a direct or near hit to the bridge, and takes out its torpedo launcher. The Reliant, for it's parts, slices a neat little section out of one side of the Enterprise's torpedo launcher, located at the bast of the latter's neck...
2) "Cause and Effect" (TNG): The time displaced Bozeman stikes the Enterprise-D's starboard warp nacelle, causing a cascade reaction that destroys the ship (one could assume the same happens to the Bozeman, since it was a nacelle-on-nacelle strike). Over and over and over...
3) "The Chase" (TNG): Two Cardassian cruisers fire their phasers on the warp nacelles of both the Enterprise and a Klingon ship. Along with some sabotage, this was clearly meant to disable both ship's warp capabilities. Only early detection prevented the Enterprise from being damaged (the Klingons weren't so fortunate, even though they too had advanced warning).
4) Star Trek: Generations: B'Etor was clearly heard ordering the weapons officer to "target their bridge" before the Enterprise crew managed to hack the Duras sisters' cloaking device and destroy them.
5) "The Jem'Hadar" (DS9): During the space battle between the Jem'Hadar and the Federation, the initial shots from the Jem'Hadar fighters clearly takes out a warp nacelle of the Odyssey (and given how "efficient" the Jem'Hadar are described, I doubt it was an accident). At the end of the fight, when the one Jem'Hadar fighter rams the Odyssey, it's clearly aiming for the section where the secondary/engineering hull connects with the ship's neck (although the damage indicated that it took out the deflector dish and the forward torpedo launcher).
6) "Tears of the Prophets" (DS9): Once again, the Jem'Hadar are shown ramming their ships into others, though their targets are Klingon ships this time. And again, the Jem'Hadar are shown deliberately targeting the long neck brace that connects the command "bulb" with the engineering sections. It doesn't matter if their Birds-of-Prey or the larger Attack Cruisers: apparently, a ship's "neck" is, for the Jem'Hadar at least, a bullseye target.
I'm sure others could find other examples besides theses.
Exactly which design are you talking about people talking about? I can't think of one that fits that description.
Well, let's face it; necks on starships have been going out of style within Starfleet since Voyager (and the Intrepid-class in general) was revealed. Kinda got thrown out in First Contact; none of the new ships revealed in that film have "necks" as we have been familiar with. The Akira and Steamrunner classes (and perhaps the Norway) have pylons, but that's different from a neck.
Which is one of my major objections to the design of the F (and by extention, the J); it doesn't follow the more streamline design pattern Starfleet was apparently establishing after First Contact. But as others have said, I'm not going to make a big brew hah-hah out of it. As with the Galaxy-X (which I don't like either) I just won't play it and won't object if others do.
Note to OP...you can be a fan and not like necks...I sure don't have one