Well, I was waiting mostly to do up some artwork and make a full on thread about it, but ok, briefly:
The basics are that each ship has three main things that will drive its relative position to other ships on the "tier" scale. They are space, power, and power utilization. Space is controlled by the size of the ship, power by the warp core, and utilization by the style of the ship. That last one is so that escorts don't get shafted, as they will have very high utilization. It will essentially dictate how much of the maximum output of your warp core you can get to your systems.
The space part essentially works like consoles do now, you can put as much of them inside the space as you can fit, and that's where your weapons go. Each thing will have a power requirement, and if you exceed the maximum you can get out of the ship, then they will progressively become debuffed. So, say I fill all of my space with phasers and blow way beyond my power generation. My phasers will be all but useless because I couldn't power them all. But if I'm more conservative and only add a second shield generator, maybe I get 2x stronger shields.
There are six systems that are static and must be on each ship: hull (alloy), shields, warp core, impulse drive, sensors, and deflector. They'd work almost identically to how they do now, only sensors would determine when you get target lock to fire and your warp core obviously dictates maximum power generation. Getting a newer, better hull alloy may also get you more space. And except for the warp core/impulse drive, they'd all have some power drain.
Every system would have crafting stuff that could go with it, and certain subsystems (to replace "consoles") would potentially buff things like utilization or space. There would be BO/crew buffs as well, but you get the gist.
Very interesting. I like the cut of your jib, sir.
I like the ability to differentiate my ship from someone else's, and the OCD side of me likes the optimization aspect. It would be really cool if some components change the outward appearance of the ship (deflectors, for example), adding even more customization options.
To be honest, I'm surprised STO didn't allow us to choose warp cores from the start. I'm guessing the different warp core / power levels would have been more difficult to work out than what we have now.
And doing things this way would allow for non-custom gear sets by combining deflector X with shield generator Y and shields Z.
What I mean is, would it have a preset amount of slots or would you add more on?
Because if it is preset, it is essentially a new Tier system.
If it automatically adds more, its a leveling ship.
If you work to add more slots, its refitting it.
My point was, what makes it so needed for them to abolish the current system and totally remake it when they could do one of the three above.
It sounds like it depends on the original size of the ship and what you put into it as to how many "slots" (weapon or console?) it would have. So if you have a Miranda, kit it out with some super strong hull supports that take half the space of the originals, you'll have a couple more slots to do what you want with. That's how it sounded to me, anyway.
What I mean is, would it have a preset amount of slots or would you add more on?
What is the difference between it and crafting on an extra weapon slot?
It's not slots. It's space and power. Think, for example, of a square grid on your saucer section. In that grid you can put whatever you can fit in there. Figure a classic TOS phaser bank would be a 2x2 square, and you might have 16x16 to work with total. If you want, you could stuff the whole square with phaser banks. Problem is, you would likely not get enough power out of the warp core for that to work effectively. So you'd have to think more carefully about what you want to put in there so you can maximize the potential of the ship.
Of course, as you level through the game, you'd find equipment that gives you more power generation so that you can do more with that space, as well as smaller components and more effective components. Maybe by the end of the game you find a hyper-efficient phaser that's 1x1 and draws less power than the 2x2.
It's not slots. It's space and power. Think, for example, of a square grid on your saucer section. In that grid you can put whatever you can fit in there. Figure a classic TOS phaser bank would be a 2x2 square, and you might have 16x16 to work with total. If you want, you could stuff the whole square with phaser banks. Problem is, you would likely not get enough power out of the warp core for that to work effectively. So you'd have to think more carefully about what you want to put in there so you can maximize the potential of the ship.
Of course, as you level through the game, you'd find equipment that gives you more power generation so that you can do more with that space, as well as smaller components and more effective components. Maybe by the end of the game you find a hyper-efficient phaser that's 1x1 and draws less power than the 2x2.
So you're talking about a system akin to the old 4x game Ascendancy, or Pax Imperia 2?
It sounds like it depends on the original size of the ship and what you put into it as to how many "slots" (weapon or console?) it would have. So if you have a Miranda, kit it out with some super strong hull supports that take half the space of the originals, you'll have a couple more slots to do what you want with. That's how it sounded to me, anyway.
Z
Yeah, very much like that. "Consoles" would probably be renamed "subsystems", but they and the weapons would be competing for space (with the exception of the six I listed which each have their own separate slot.)
It's not slots. It's space and power. Think, for example, of a square grid on your saucer section. In that grid you can put whatever you can fit in there. Figure a classic TOS phaser bank would be a 2x2 square, and you might have 16x16 to work with total. If you want, you could stuff the whole square with phaser banks. Problem is, you would likely not get enough power out of the warp core for that to work effectively. So you'd have to think more carefully about what you want to put in there so you can maximize the potential of the ship.
Of course, as you level through the game, you'd find equipment that gives you more power generation so that you can do more with that space, as well as smaller components and more effective components. Maybe by the end of the game you find a hyper-efficient phaser that's 1x1 and draws less power than the 2x2.
Ah, I see, this is far clearer, thanks
I get what the difference is, and I kinda like it.
I'd be bigger on adding a refit system, but I wouldn't be opposed to this.
It's a great idea, a bit of artwork and you could sell the heck outta this.
I haven't played them so I can't say. The game I would most closely relate it to is Master of Orion 2.
I would recommend you check out Ascendancy. You can get it for the iPhone/Pad/Touch for about 5 bucks. From what I understand its just like the original on PC from years ago.
Well, if them rascally canon-sniffers don't darken this here thread's doorstep with their mangy hides I reckon we'll be fair to middlin'. [/orneryoldguyvoice]
I think if I get the chance to finish fleshing it out and put the art together with it, it will do the trick.
I'd really love to see that, it bring something pretty dang interesting to the table, but it'll probably be a far way off considering the amount of work it does.
The only other problem I can see with it is that Cryptic tries to make a lot of this really simple and very casual and I'm not sure how some more casual players would react to this, just a thought
Looks like the thread is already starting to go in the wrong direction for me. Too bad
I'd really love to see that, it bring something pretty dang interesting to the table, but it'll probably be a far way off considering the amount of work it does.
Looks like the thread is already starting to go in the wrong direction. Too bad, I'll probably only be responding to you.
I could probably bang it out in Photoshop in a day or two. The idea is to keep it simple so the casual players are not overwhelmed and use the existing art assets for the most part. Also, it would make most of the equipment much more specific as to what it does to eliminate how utterly incomprehensible the current stuff is. No more "+5 to Deflector Dish? What does that even mean!?"
I just have been too busy with real work to spend the hours.
I could probably bang it out in Photoshop in a day or two. The idea is to keep it simple so the casual players are not overwhelmed and use the existing art assets for the most part. Also, it would make most of the equipment much more specific as to what it does to eliminate how utterly incomprehensible the current stuff is. No more "+5 to Deflector Dish? What does that even mean!?"
I just have been too busy with real work to spend the hours.
I'd love that, I still have no idea what a lot of that means.
I think this could work, hopefully including new systems like "Warp Core' and "Hull Plating"
I could probably bang it out in Photoshop in a day or two. The idea is to keep it simple so the casual players are not overwhelmed and use the existing art assets for the most part. Also, it would make most of the equipment much more specific as to what it does to eliminate how utterly incomprehensible the current stuff is. No more "+5 to Deflector Dish? What does that even mean!?"
I just have been too busy with real work to spend the hours.
More specifics on what system does what would be really nice. IMO one of Cryptic's biggest failings.
How are you going to get the ship layouts? Just grab the ship silhouette from the shield rings, enlarge it and slap a centered grid on it?
Again, I look forward to learning more about this. The mix-and-match feel of it has a lot of potential.
More specifics on what system does what would be really nice. IMO one of Cryptic's biggest failings.
How are you going to get the ship layouts? Just grab the ship silhouette from the shield rings, enlarge it and slap a centered grid on it?
Again, I look forward to learning more about this. The mix-and-match feel of it has a lot of potential.
Z
Well I'll probably only do one ship as proof of concept. I will probably just grab a Refit-Constitution (my personal favorite) layout and slap the grid on it. Arrange the icons for the six major systems above it. The right pane will have the stats (total hull, shield strength, resistances to weapons, a bar to represent power usage, current max power/utilization etc.) Probably have to do a shot or two with a sample mouse over.
Hardest thing would probably be matching their fonts, though I could just fudge it and use a standard Federation one.
There are a few things I'm not sure about how I want to handle, like forward vs. aft facing weapons if that will be a property you can set or if it has to be in a certain place or what have you.
I think having weapons have a setable aft or fore would be best. (Though should all weapons have this capability?:)
If someone want nothing but forward weapons and nothing aft, guess it would be their choice.
Would this system affect BO's in any way? Since that is a vital part of ships?
Well...
It can work without touching them, but as I've said in other threads, I think this all ties together. Ideally, your BOs would not be where your space skills come from. They would either come from your Captain or from your ship components. But, in terms of just upgrading this one part of the game, what I would do is tie it into their upcoming department head and crew system bit. For example, you could have an engineer with a "Miracle Worker" trait, and if you make him Chief Engineer, I don't know, your power utilization rate goes up or something.
It can work without touching them, but as I've said in other threads, I think this all ties together. Ideally, your BOs would not be where your space skills come from. They would either come from your Captain or from your ship components. But, in terms of just upgrading this one part of the game, what I would do is tie it into their upcoming department head and crew system bit. For example, you could have an engineer with a "Miracle Worker" trait, and if you make him Chief Engineer, I don't know, your power utilization rate goes up or something.
The thing I'm seeing is that without touching them, people will get upset they can't upgrade their Boff skills.
And if you do, it would seem to necessitate a completely new power skill thing as well, and I'm not sure the Devs are going to do all of this rather than say a refit system or more C-Store Retrofits.
The thing I'm seeing is that without touching them, people will get upset they can't upgrade their Boff skills.
And if you do, it would seem to necessitate a completely new power skill thing as well, and I'm not sure the Devs are going to do all of this rather than say a refit system or more C-Store Retrofits.
Just thoughts to smooth out your idea.
Well, one of the reasons I haven't exactly rushed to put together the concept is I'm not sure anything would come of it. The last time I even talked about overhauling a system, it was met with less than enthusiasm from even the forums.
Well, one of the reasons I haven't exactly rushed to put together the concept is I'm not sure anything would come of it. The last time I even talked about overhauling a system, it was met with less than enthusiasm from even the forums.
Comments
Very interesting. I like the cut of your jib, sir.
I like the ability to differentiate my ship from someone else's, and the OCD side of me likes the optimization aspect. It would be really cool if some components change the outward appearance of the ship (deflectors, for example), adding even more customization options.
To be honest, I'm surprised STO didn't allow us to choose warp cores from the start. I'm guessing the different warp core / power levels would have been more difficult to work out than what we have now.
And doing things this way would allow for non-custom gear sets by combining deflector X with shield generator Y and shields Z.
I look forward to reading more about this.
It sounds like it depends on the original size of the ship and what you put into it as to how many "slots" (weapon or console?) it would have. So if you have a Miranda, kit it out with some super strong hull supports that take half the space of the originals, you'll have a couple more slots to do what you want with. That's how it sounded to me, anyway.
Z
It's not slots. It's space and power. Think, for example, of a square grid on your saucer section. In that grid you can put whatever you can fit in there. Figure a classic TOS phaser bank would be a 2x2 square, and you might have 16x16 to work with total. If you want, you could stuff the whole square with phaser banks. Problem is, you would likely not get enough power out of the warp core for that to work effectively. So you'd have to think more carefully about what you want to put in there so you can maximize the potential of the ship.
Of course, as you level through the game, you'd find equipment that gives you more power generation so that you can do more with that space, as well as smaller components and more effective components. Maybe by the end of the game you find a hyper-efficient phaser that's 1x1 and draws less power than the 2x2.
So you're talking about a system akin to the old 4x game Ascendancy, or Pax Imperia 2?
Yeah, very much like that. "Consoles" would probably be renamed "subsystems", but they and the weapons would be competing for space (with the exception of the six I listed which each have their own separate slot.)
Ah, I see, this is far clearer, thanks
I get what the difference is, and I kinda like it.
I'd be bigger on adding a refit system, but I wouldn't be opposed to this.
It's a great idea, a bit of artwork and you could sell the heck outta this.
I haven't played them so I can't say. The game I would most closely relate it to is Master of Orion 2.
I would recommend you check out Ascendancy. You can get it for the iPhone/Pad/Touch for about 5 bucks. From what I understand its just like the original on PC from years ago.
All you canon-sniffers should read this
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3465469&postcount=40
Canon-sniffers? Does canon have a smell? What does canon smell like? Inquiring minds wish to know.
Something that can ruin a lot of peoples fun.
I'd prefer a refit system, but I'd be cool with yours.
IMO, don't think any other ideas work well enough.
Kind of unspecific.
you most of all need to read the link of what the person stated.
Essentially, imo, the different sides are just different opinions of canon and how it should be applied..
No Gimp should be applied.
Well, if them rascally canon-sniffers don't darken this here thread's doorstep with their mangy hides I reckon we'll be fair to middlin'. [/orneryoldguyvoice]
Z
dadgummit!!
I think if I get the chance to finish fleshing it out and put the art together with it, it will do the trick.
I'd really love to see that, it bring something pretty dang interesting to the table, but it'll probably be a far way off considering the amount of work it does.
The only other problem I can see with it is that Cryptic tries to make a lot of this really simple and very casual and I'm not sure how some more casual players would react to this, just a thought
Looks like the thread is already starting to go in the wrong direction for me. Too bad
I could probably bang it out in Photoshop in a day or two. The idea is to keep it simple so the casual players are not overwhelmed and use the existing art assets for the most part. Also, it would make most of the equipment much more specific as to what it does to eliminate how utterly incomprehensible the current stuff is. No more "+5 to Deflector Dish? What does that even mean!?"
I just have been too busy with real work to spend the hours.
I'd love that, I still have no idea what a lot of that means.
I think this could work, hopefully including new systems like "Warp Core' and "Hull Plating"
More specifics on what system does what would be really nice. IMO one of Cryptic's biggest failings.
How are you going to get the ship layouts? Just grab the ship silhouette from the shield rings, enlarge it and slap a centered grid on it?
Again, I look forward to learning more about this. The mix-and-match feel of it has a lot of potential.
Z
Well I'll probably only do one ship as proof of concept. I will probably just grab a Refit-Constitution (my personal favorite) layout and slap the grid on it. Arrange the icons for the six major systems above it. The right pane will have the stats (total hull, shield strength, resistances to weapons, a bar to represent power usage, current max power/utilization etc.) Probably have to do a shot or two with a sample mouse over.
Hardest thing would probably be matching their fonts, though I could just fudge it and use a standard Federation one.
There are a few things I'm not sure about how I want to handle, like forward vs. aft facing weapons if that will be a property you can set or if it has to be in a certain place or what have you.
If someone want nothing but forward weapons and nothing aft, guess it would be their choice.
Would this system affect BO's in any way? Since that is a vital part of ships?
Well...
It can work without touching them, but as I've said in other threads, I think this all ties together. Ideally, your BOs would not be where your space skills come from. They would either come from your Captain or from your ship components. But, in terms of just upgrading this one part of the game, what I would do is tie it into their upcoming department head and crew system bit. For example, you could have an engineer with a "Miracle Worker" trait, and if you make him Chief Engineer, I don't know, your power utilization rate goes up or something.
The thing I'm seeing is that without touching them, people will get upset they can't upgrade their Boff skills.
And if you do, it would seem to necessitate a completely new power skill thing as well, and I'm not sure the Devs are going to do all of this rather than say a refit system or more C-Store Retrofits.
Just thoughts to smooth out your idea.
Well, one of the reasons I haven't exactly rushed to put together the concept is I'm not sure anything would come of it. The last time I even talked about overhauling a system, it was met with less than enthusiasm from even the forums.
Yeah, that sux, what was it?
Coincidentally, Captain + BO skill system overhaul.