This may be off topic but I'm kinda lol ing at the way in one debate
Me and player 1 are are on totally different sides debating up a storm
then in a different debate
Me and player 1 are united debating with player 2
then in a different debate
Me and player 1 and player 2 are against player 2 debating
"Where the ides of fortune takes us, no man knows!"
I'm not against the C-Store, in fact I like it when its properly priced.
Just goes to show, everyone has a different out look on just about everything
new races... loads of c store but the races arnt rly improtant theres atleast 8 free ones anyway and 6 klingon ones
classes? seriously we have 3 that are the main cannon roles do you need more
skill sets... all the 5th box along powers, carriers, even the scanner was not in at launch
so compared to launch we've had more new content and visual improvement than any other game i've seen, and the more money the game makes the more atari spends on it so it gets better, it's a business.
the c-store is fluff for fans with cash to burn
The skill tree has nothing new in it, lets be real, and lets not forget, the way it was suppose to work was that even at max level you continued to acquire SP to finish fleshing out the builds.
Saying we have 3 classes that are main cannon roles, doesn't change the fact most companies make new one as part of a expansion.
I dont consider stuff that was broken at launch and later fixed to be new content either.
That though is besides the point i made, what we have gotten is nothing like a expansion, and the mission content alone is worth the price of 35-40 (some say 60 or more) U.S. dollars.
Whether or not people want to admit it or not (I know it's very difficult to express being wrong, I've been there) but when the pricing model does change, you can know in your little hearts that this guy was right.
Just sayin. The pricing model has to change, and it will.
That may not be entirely true. There is more competition for companies to buy the broadband now. The cost of equipment has went down you can do a lot more with less equipment than ten years ago. Micro chips almost double in performance every few years. Many more companies sell the equipment. The software now compared to ten years ago is much more efficient. Taking less people and less time to do more work.
They make more money but no one on these boards know how much goes back into the game or in the share holders pocket.
... and welcome to the 21st Century, it's a World of the Almighty Dollar...
From Walmart pretty much monopolizing the retail-chain-store market (and then raising it's prices) too MMO's creating the C-Store Model to garner more cash from it's player base...
Love it... Hate it... or where ever your feelings are in between...
This is how things are going to be, pretty much from now on...
... and welcome to the 21st Century, it's a World of the Almighty Dollar...
From Walmart pretty much monopolizing the retail-chain-store market (and then raising it's prices) too MMO's creating the C-Store Model to garner more cash from it's player base...
Love it... Hate it... or where ever your feelings are in between...
This is how things are going to be, pretty much from now on...
I never said I think they will stop selling c-store items. C-store is a cash cow their not going to stop milking now. Or am I trying to stop them. It is really overpriced for what it is, I choose not to support it.
Back in 2001 theres was probably only thousands of MMO subscribers in the U.S. Now there are millions of players now in the U.S. alone. Technology has increased many times over it cheaper to do much more with less of it.
The software is much more efficient and requires less time and people to do much more work.
So it's a myth that developers can't make new content without micro transaction.
The content released in a season doesn't even come close to what most MMO developers call a expansion.
A season in STO much closer to a patch in AAA MMO's not a expansion.
Stahl must get sick of explaining this to people. Seasons are not necessarily tied to content expansion, but new features and mechanics for the game, which are utilized in the content thats released regularly. But if we're talking about content expansion not coming close to other AAA MMO's...
Episodes at STO launch: 46 (47 if you count the tutorial, and even this is stretching it as the 3 Borg episodes came out after launch)
Episodes added since launch:
8 Klingon Episodes
3 Undine Episodes
4 Special Task Forces
15 Feature Episodes
... for a grand total of 30 episodes added to the game.
Thats around a 70% increase to Episodic story content alone. Name one other MMO that increased their main playable story content by such a large amount in one year.
Also worth noting: This does not include the Fleet Actions, Dozen+ Dailies, Klingon sortie missions, the 8 new dipxp missions crafted for season 2, defend missions and so on.
I'm sorry but I have been playing games for years and years, and despite loving STO, i have one problem that seems to be re-occurring in games these days, and BIG TIME in STO.
I PAYED FULL PRICE FOR THIS GAME, AND I PAY MONTHLY!! We should NOT have to spend MORE money on these stupid tokens for content that should be REQUIRED!!
Paying extra money for ships that should be in this game, clothing, items, its all complete and 100% "BullSh*t"
STOP TRIBBLE US OVER STO, ITS NOT OUR FAULT YOU RAN OUT OF MONEY!!! :eek::eek:
I have no problem with stuff being sold on the C-Store, I do have a problem with ships and stuff being sold for the cost of a full month's subscription.
Stahl must get sick of explaining this to people. Seasons are not necessarily tied to content expansion, but new features and mechanics for the game, which are utilized in the content thats released regularly. But if we're talking about content expansion not coming close to other AAA MMO's...
Episodes at STO launch: 46 (47 if you count the tutorial, and even this is stretching it as the 3 Borg episodes came out after launch)
Episodes added since launch:
8 Klingon Episodes
3 Undine Episodes
4 Special Task Forces
15 Feature Episodes
... for a grand total of 30 episodes added to the game.
Thats around a 70% increase to Episodic story content alone. Name one other MMO that increased their main playable story content by such a large amount in one year.
Also worth noting: This does not include the Fleet Actions, Dozen+ Dailies, Klingon sortie missions, the 8 new dipxp missions crafted for season 2, defend missions and so on.
I'm not the one that claimed a patch is a expansion. The 46 episodes is less quest than starting zones in most MMO's . The 30 episode added in a year isn't a lot of content.
70% of almost nothing is not a lot. The fleet actions they broke so people stopped playing them. The diplomacy quest were just dialog boxes quest that weren't really fun.
I'm not the one that claimed a patch is a expansion. The 46 episodes is less quest than starting zones in most MMO's . The 30 episode added in a year isn't a lot of content.
Ah yes, because a quest where you have to kill 5 wolves, or collect 5 herbs is just as involving as a STO episode. /sarcasm off
Ah yes, because a quest where you have to kill 5 wolves, or collect 5 herbs is just as involving as a STO episode. /sarcasm off
Apples to Oranges
Hardly, it's the same story lines I the hero must stop these five wolfs to protect this group of people.
Where I have to go kill the same five Klingons five times to protect people from them and sit through at least two loading screens. Hope they don't fall trough the terrain and my weapons will fire. Hope my BO's don't get lost. My target expose enemy will work and the one shot bug doesn't wipe out my crew.
I have to gather five anomalies to help this cause it's all the same.
So you can call STO completely different and you may be right.
Stahl must get sick of explaining this to people. Seasons are not necessarily tied to content expansion, but new features and mechanics for the game, which are utilized in the content thats released regularly. But if we're talking about content expansion not coming close to other AAA MMO's...
Episodes at STO launch: 46 (47 if you count the tutorial, and even this is stretching it as the 3 Borg episodes came out after launch)
Episodes added since launch:
8 Klingon Episodes
3 Undine Episodes
4 Special Task Forces
15 Feature Episodes
... for a grand total of 30 episodes added to the game.
Thats around a 70% increase to Episodic story content alone. Name one other MMO that increased their main playable story content by such a large amount in one year.
Also worth noting: This does not include the Fleet Actions, Dozen+ Dailies, Klingon sortie missions, the 8 new dipxp missions crafted for season 2, defend missions and so on.
This is really a bad example. considering most other MMO's launch with hundreds of missions per zone, totaling in the thousands for the entire game.
No one is saying they haven't made good strides in finishing a game, that for all intensive purposes was in a alpha state/barely Beta at launch.
Ah yes, because a quest where you have to kill 5 wolves, or collect 5 herbs is just as involving as a STO episode. /sarcasm off
Apples to Oranges
Not exactly. Often in those template quests there's some kind of story, something to read. People often don't read it beyond the first time, and even then, some people skip it as well. Either case, they're themed and often play into the area storyline in some fashion. Yeah, they're mostly boring and grindy, but you can easily say that for the missions here, too.
To be honest, the Fed leveling quests are so cut and dry, they are just as bad. The formula 90% of the time is space encounter-ground encounter-space encounter-done (SGS). It's extremely boring, and within those, it's the same stuff as kill 5 wolves, collect 3 things. Exactly the same kind of objectives. But what do you really expect? I don't expect a whole lot beyond that, personally, but others seem to.
Except I will say those leveling missions are essentially 3 missions in one. But even if you multiple your figures by 3, it's still a fraction of the content. Not to mention, that's just one faction. The other faction was totally and completely boned, basically.
Hardly, it's the same story lines I the hero must stop these five wolfs to protect this group of people.
Where I have to go kill the same five Klingons five times to protect people from them and sit through at least two loading screens. Hope they don't fall trough the terrain my will weapons fire. Hope my BO's don't get lost. My target expose enemy will work and the one shot bug doesn't wipe out my crew.
I have to gather five anomalies to help this cause it's all the same.
So you can call STO completely different and you may be right.
Here, you're talking about either small sections of Episodes as a whole, or the Exploration content which we have an unlimited supply of. I'm just talking about full episodic content, each of which is much longer and more involving than your standard 'harvest 5 X from Y' quests.
This is really a bad example. considering most other MMO's launch with hundreds of missions per zone, totaling in the thousands for the entire game.
It was not my intention of overhyping STO's premature launch content whatsoever, but to point out that we have seen rapid expansion to the game since, and a vast portion of it is not from the Cstore.
No one is saying they haven't made good strides in finishing a game, that for all intensive purposes was in a alpha state/barely Beta at launch.
Here, you're talking about either small sections of Episodes as a whole, or the Exploration content which we have an unlimited supply of. I'm just talking about full episodic content, each of which is much longer and more involving than your standard 'harvest 5 X from Y' quests.
I forgot that other MMOs don't have bugs either.
In all fairness, most MMOs have quest storylines you play for days or weeks. The rest are template X, Y, Z type missions. I see very little difference here, except STO has fewer, overall. But the ones they do have are very cool and I enjoy them very much. I wish they were all made in such a way.
Every software product will have bugs somewhere. There's a huge difference though. Bugs that are weird or even amusing, versus bugs that break the game play so radically, you can't actually... play. Being a gamer of a couple decades, I will say STO is lacking in the polish department, but not necessarily more than other tier 2 or lower companies (ie: not the mega-corps).
Here, you're talking about either small sections of Episodes as a whole, or the Exploration content which we have an unlimited supply of. I'm just talking about full episodic content, each of which is much longer and more involving than your standard 'harvest 5 X from Y' quests.
I forgot that other MMOs don't have bugs either.
The quest story lines in MMO's aren't very different. The quest through the game aren't really any different from explorer mission. I sit through a loading screen kill five mobs in space. Sit through a loading beam down and kill some ground mobs. Sit through a loading screen fly to another quest sit through load screen and repeat.
It's your opinion it's more involving. To me it's less immersion with more down time.
Of the eleven MMO's I have played I have never played on with this many bugs and problems.
If this game makes it to October, then I'm playing for free. It's called an investment. And no, I'm not loaded. I saved my money knowing the purchase was coming.
All I know is that I've played alot of MMOs, and while there aren't as many individual missions in STO as the golden standard, I find them to be much more lengthy, involving and enjoyable to play. The fact that I've always been a Trek fan could have something to do with that. /shrug
All I know is that I've played alot of MMOs, and while there aren't as many individual missions in STO as the golden standard, I find them to be much more lengthy, involving and enjoyable to play. The fact that I've always been a Trek fan could have something to do with that. /shrug
This simple fact is the reason most of my guild still plays, myself included.
I just don't understand how half the player base or should i say forum users, don't see this. While i love this I.P, have since i was a kid, that over riding love does not blind me to the ways we are taken advantage of for it.
It amazes me even more, people continually say the C-store is not a issue but the topics never die.
Even more astounded is people say that"well, half the Dev team doesn't work on content", but then quote Dstahl as saying" more then half the Dev team is working on season 4".
Either half the team does only art and justifies it for C-store reasons, or they don't, and all the arguments about "instead of working on C-store, they could be working on actual playable content" is correct.
We cant have it both ways, and i think the ambiguity in the way we are told of how our dollars go into different aspects of the game is the issue.
I know i cant blame someone for pointing out conflicting information, and that is probably the root of a lot of the discontent floating around the forums.
not my problem and stop defending them, it might not bother you, and that is fine, but for us that feel spending the full price on a game, $50, and THEN a monthly subscription, ERRRRR WRONG
this is NOT cool, and not our problem, and the other guy is right, you will lose a signiificant amount of players because we'd rather spend that money on a game where we dont have to buy ships with US CURRENCY!
who is "us", i know you dont speak for me. the cstore is at will type of transactions, you can use it or not to use it. that is up to the single player. not the group as a whole. would i like to the the new promet. of course i would. i just dont the funds to buy it atm. i bought alot of things from the cstore beacue i want them. not becuase i was "forced" to buy them.
the cstore is not or ever will be a end all and be all.
I PAYED FULL PRICE FOR THIS GAME, AND I PAY MONTHLY!! We should NOT have to spend MORE money on these stupid tokens for content that should be REQUIRED!!
Paying extra money for ships that should be in this game, clothing, items, its all complete and 100% "BullSh*t"
I'm sorry but I have been playing games for years and years, and despite loving STO, i have one problem that seems to be re-occurring in games these days, and BIG TIME in STO.
I PAYED FULL PRICE FOR THIS GAME, AND I PAY MONTHLY!! We should NOT have to spend MORE money on these stupid tokens for content that should be REQUIRED!!
Paying extra money for ships that should be in this game, clothing, items, its all complete and 100% "BullSh*t"
STOP TRIBBLE US OVER STO, ITS NOT OUR FAULT YOU RAN OUT OF MONEY!!! :eek::eek:
While I can understand your ire, please remember that almost everything in the C-store can be purchased with in-game emblems.
What cannot be purchased by in-game emblems are costume pieces, certain ships and some other 'special' content.
Do you really NEED taht new bridge to play the game? Nope but its fun to have.
Comments
Just goes to show, everyone has a different out look on just about everything
The skill tree has nothing new in it, lets be real, and lets not forget, the way it was suppose to work was that even at max level you continued to acquire SP to finish fleshing out the builds.
Saying we have 3 classes that are main cannon roles, doesn't change the fact most companies make new one as part of a expansion.
I dont consider stuff that was broken at launch and later fixed to be new content either.
That though is besides the point i made, what we have gotten is nothing like a expansion, and the mission content alone is worth the price of 35-40 (some say 60 or more) U.S. dollars.
A season in STO much closer to a patch in AAA MMO's not a expansion.
Exactly, but some wont admit this simple fact.
Whether or not people want to admit it or not (I know it's very difficult to express being wrong, I've been there) but when the pricing model does change, you can know in your little hearts that this guy was right.
Just sayin. The pricing model has to change, and it will.
not rly, we get patches most weeks of 200mb to a gb, which is about the same as normal patchs
My goodness, so much malcontent...
Take a good look around ya folks...
... and welcome to the 21st Century, it's a World of the Almighty Dollar...
From Walmart pretty much monopolizing the retail-chain-store market (and then raising it's prices) too MMO's creating the C-Store Model to garner more cash from it's player base...
Love it... Hate it... or where ever your feelings are in between...
This is how things are going to be, pretty much from now on...
Patch size doesn't make it a expansion.
Hardly, most expansions are dozens or hundreds of hours on new game play. New zones with hundreds of quest and items.
A seasons in STO is a few hours of game play at best and some c-store items.
Except for the attack pattern skills.
I never said I think they will stop selling c-store items. C-store is a cash cow their not going to stop milking now. Or am I trying to stop them. It is really overpriced for what it is, I choose not to support it.
Back in 2001 theres was probably only thousands of MMO subscribers in the U.S. Now there are millions of players now in the U.S. alone. Technology has increased many times over it cheaper to do much more with less of it.
The software is much more efficient and requires less time and people to do much more work.
So it's a myth that developers can't make new content without micro transaction.
Stahl must get sick of explaining this to people. Seasons are not necessarily tied to content expansion, but new features and mechanics for the game, which are utilized in the content thats released regularly. But if we're talking about content expansion not coming close to other AAA MMO's...
Episodes at STO launch: 46 (47 if you count the tutorial, and even this is stretching it as the 3 Borg episodes came out after launch)
Episodes added since launch:
8 Klingon Episodes
3 Undine Episodes
4 Special Task Forces
15 Feature Episodes
... for a grand total of 30 episodes added to the game.
Thats around a 70% increase to Episodic story content alone. Name one other MMO that increased their main playable story content by such a large amount in one year.
Also worth noting: This does not include the Fleet Actions, Dozen+ Dailies, Klingon sortie missions, the 8 new dipxp missions crafted for season 2, defend missions and so on.
There is NO content in the C-Store.
I'm not the one that claimed a patch is a expansion. The 46 episodes is less quest than starting zones in most MMO's . The 30 episode added in a year isn't a lot of content.
70% of almost nothing is not a lot. The fleet actions they broke so people stopped playing them. The diplomacy quest were just dialog boxes quest that weren't really fun.
So I'm not really impressed with what we got.
Ah yes, because a quest where you have to kill 5 wolves, or collect 5 herbs is just as involving as a STO episode. /sarcasm off
Apples to Oranges
I love the C-Store myself.
Hardly, it's the same story lines I the hero must stop these five wolfs to protect this group of people.
Where I have to go kill the same five Klingons five times to protect people from them and sit through at least two loading screens. Hope they don't fall trough the terrain and my weapons will fire. Hope my BO's don't get lost. My target expose enemy will work and the one shot bug doesn't wipe out my crew.
I have to gather five anomalies to help this cause it's all the same.
So you can call STO completely different and you may be right.
This is really a bad example. considering most other MMO's launch with hundreds of missions per zone, totaling in the thousands for the entire game.
No one is saying they haven't made good strides in finishing a game, that for all intensive purposes was in a alpha state/barely Beta at launch.
Not exactly. Often in those template quests there's some kind of story, something to read. People often don't read it beyond the first time, and even then, some people skip it as well. Either case, they're themed and often play into the area storyline in some fashion. Yeah, they're mostly boring and grindy, but you can easily say that for the missions here, too.
To be honest, the Fed leveling quests are so cut and dry, they are just as bad. The formula 90% of the time is space encounter-ground encounter-space encounter-done (SGS). It's extremely boring, and within those, it's the same stuff as kill 5 wolves, collect 3 things. Exactly the same kind of objectives. But what do you really expect? I don't expect a whole lot beyond that, personally, but others seem to.
Except I will say those leveling missions are essentially 3 missions in one. But even if you multiple your figures by 3, it's still a fraction of the content. Not to mention, that's just one faction. The other faction was totally and completely boned, basically.
Quoted for Epic Truth ^^^
Here, you're talking about either small sections of Episodes as a whole, or the Exploration content which we have an unlimited supply of. I'm just talking about full episodic content, each of which is much longer and more involving than your standard 'harvest 5 X from Y' quests.
I forgot that other MMOs don't have bugs either.
It was not my intention of overhyping STO's premature launch content whatsoever, but to point out that we have seen rapid expansion to the game since, and a vast portion of it is not from the Cstore.
/agree, and I'm not disputing that at all.
In all fairness, most MMOs have quest storylines you play for days or weeks. The rest are template X, Y, Z type missions. I see very little difference here, except STO has fewer, overall. But the ones they do have are very cool and I enjoy them very much. I wish they were all made in such a way.
Every software product will have bugs somewhere. There's a huge difference though. Bugs that are weird or even amusing, versus bugs that break the game play so radically, you can't actually... play. Being a gamer of a couple decades, I will say STO is lacking in the polish department, but not necessarily more than other tier 2 or lower companies (ie: not the mega-corps).
The quest story lines in MMO's aren't very different. The quest through the game aren't really any different from explorer mission. I sit through a loading screen kill five mobs in space. Sit through a loading beam down and kill some ground mobs. Sit through a loading screen fly to another quest sit through load screen and repeat.
It's your opinion it's more involving. To me it's less immersion with more down time.
Of the eleven MMO's I have played I have never played on with this many bugs and problems.
Same here.
This simple fact is the reason most of my guild still plays, myself included.
I just don't understand how half the player base or should i say forum users, don't see this. While i love this I.P, have since i was a kid, that over riding love does not blind me to the ways we are taken advantage of for it.
It amazes me even more, people continually say the C-store is not a issue but the topics never die.
Even more astounded is people say that"well, half the Dev team doesn't work on content", but then quote Dstahl as saying" more then half the Dev team is working on season 4".
Either half the team does only art and justifies it for C-store reasons, or they don't, and all the arguments about "instead of working on C-store, they could be working on actual playable content" is correct.
We cant have it both ways, and i think the ambiguity in the way we are told of how our dollars go into different aspects of the game is the issue.
I know i cant blame someone for pointing out conflicting information, and that is probably the root of a lot of the discontent floating around the forums.
who is "us", i know you dont speak for me. the cstore is at will type of transactions, you can use it or not to use it. that is up to the single player. not the group as a whole. would i like to the the new promet. of course i would. i just dont the funds to buy it atm. i bought alot of things from the cstore beacue i want them. not becuase i was "forced" to buy them.
the cstore is not or ever will be a end all and be all.
Since when is the out-of-era clothing required?
While I can understand your ire, please remember that almost everything in the C-store can be purchased with in-game emblems.
What cannot be purchased by in-game emblems are costume pieces, certain ships and some other 'special' content.
Do you really NEED taht new bridge to play the game? Nope but its fun to have.