Thlaylie. I like you. you make a lot of valid points. The whole responce has caused a massive uproar over something THAT WILL NOT EFFECT CONTENT DELIVERANCE AT ALL.
Seriously. Explain to me people how putting a few weapon slots. Adding a tiny bit bigger hull and all that jazz will effect Episodes coming out at all?
Why when valid points are raised and the argument seems over do some people say stupid things like, "I want an Air Force jet in STO duh hur hur hur?"
Should I view this as an indicator of surrender?
No, you should find those things stupid, and then realize that what you're asking for is equally stupid and that the arguments being made in favor of doing it can easily be made for that thing that you will immediately recognize as stupid.
That's why those things are brought up. Not because anyone thinks it makes sense to have any of those things in the game at all, much less at T5, but because the arguments being made for T5 TOSC can literally be made for anything anyone wants regardless of how stupid it is.
There is no reason other than to satisfy "I WANT!" to do anything with the TOSC, but an overwhelming number of reasons not to do it having to do with everything from game design to canon to basic logic.
Why can't all the naysayers understand the inclusion of an Iconic ship at end game?
It's a real simple concept and I think they are all just trying to cloud the issue with TRIBBLE about how it's in game already or it's not big enough or it wouldn't be right to have a Connie beat a Sovy.
Why can't all the yay-sayers understand all the reasons the Iconic ship should remain right where it is?
It's a real simple concept that the game is set in the 25th century wherein that ship is ancient and shouldn't even be in the setting at all but has already been given a pass due to that iconic nature. That a game with Tier Lists needs to enforce the Tier List or get rid of it. That it isn't fair to anyone who likes some other non-T5 ship doesn't get to have their favorite in the T5 list. And so on and so forth.
If you had to choose between having the game die to preserve it's "purity" or have a Tier 5 Connie, which would you choose?
Will all you naysayers agree to pay the subscriptions of everyone that wants a Tier 5 Connie so that it will not be included in game?
I have yet to see anyone threaten to cancel if they don't get a T5 TOSC. I have, however, seen someone quit on the very inclusion of the NX in the game. So, I think when it comes to which thing is more likely to kill the game, the inability of the game to retain some form of consistency or immersive setting is probably higher on the list.
This has gone insane. Dstahl is probably peeking into all of these threads thinking "Oi vey. Another ship dispute." Is a Tier 5 Retrofit Retrofit Constitution or ANY 23rd century ship Other than the excelsior that much of a dispute. We are trekkies. We can normally get along over anything.
Trekkies always argue about things and they always find things to ***** about.
Since that does not mess up the last shred of internal logic this game has maintained.
This is why anal fans should be ignored, if the guys running the franchise had just listened to Roddenberry's advice in this area we wouldn't have needed Abrams to save the franchise and it would still be on TV.
rebuttals like this is why these discourse turn into nothing more than people refusing to acknowledge a simple addition to a game.
You are trying to infer that a HMS Enterprise has a place in the Star Trek MMO. Lets at least try to keep it somewhat in line with a Sci-Fi themed discussion.
Now if this was Big Famous Sailing ships Online, i would say your point is valid but as this statement shows, your not really looking for a solution,just trying to impose your view point on others, and trying to make it seem like your being most reasonable.
If you would like to continue talking about the inclusion of a Constitution look alike at tier 5, and its supposedly effect on everyone's play time, i would do so.
The point is: We think the HMS Enterprize or a Spitfire or the Phoenix is as malplaced and outdated at T5 as the TOS Ships, that cant be that hard to grasp..
There is no way to justify a 150 year old ship, that was scrapped, that have one ship yet in existence (in a museum for crying out loud) to cruise around as a frontline vessel.
Yes, there are several ships in the game that dont belong.. No more outdated TRIBBLE destroying what little believability we have left..
What I find this brings up (again) is that Cryptic isn't at all interested designing a game world. The ship chart is a mess (some things are right but some things are very wrong and consistency is around zero), so are the ranks, the fleet content, the PVP, and the immersion is pretty low. Roleplay isn't even on their radar as dstahl has stated over and over. Ground combat is a work in progress but even space combat, as great as it is visually, could do with a loooot less Super Mario Magic Mushrooms (and the ship chart is really all about how many and what color Magic Mushrooms you get to consume at once) and a teensy bit more management seeing as how sensors and life support are completely non-factors.
What Cryptic does well at is content. STO is a good single player game that you have to pay to access, especially the featured episodes. Unfortunately they're so resource constrained that they're now crowdsourcing that (which enables us to have a more direct say but while still charging us the same, mind). Some of the shiny they sell in the C-Store is nice but they've also failed to be consistent in that content and how they make it available, further straining relations with the players. Letting this debate rage on for over 60 pages now shows they're just relying on polling results to see what new content they should or shouldn't introduce.
I think the fundamental conflict is that we care passionately about the details and design of the game world and to them it's just additional landscaping to enable the content. That's the heart of why we'll never be happy with STO beyond the quality of the content they're able to produce.
There is no way to justify a 150 year old ship, that was scrapped, that have one ship yet in existence (in a museum for crying out loud) to cruise around as a frontline vessel.
Please campaign to have the D'kyr, the T5 B'rel and the T5 Excelsior removed if you feel so strongly about it, because solid arguments can be made for them being equally out of place.
Honestly I think it comes down to, Those against the T5 Connie are just as much against the D'kyr or Br'el or Excelisor being where they are, Unfortunately they are in the game already. And you cant just take that away from the playerbase. Both those agaisnt the T5 Connie and Cryptic understand this. And its why were not even touching the debate over them. Were focusing on keeping any further ships that dont belong at that level from making it into the game.
The D'Kyr was probably misunderstood as to what it really was by most...and most players probably dont even know how old it is. But it was different and not a typical Fed ship so most just went along with it.
The Br'el was in most peoples eyes. Cryptics attempt to give Klingons the same affordable chance to have Refits just as the Feds do, Unfortunately it was a poor choice in ship (the excuse one blew up the Enterprise is bull and you all know it.. the klingons went thru great lengths to bypass the Galaxy's securities) and more over, its ability to be effective at T5 shows what happens when you put a ship not capable of running at that level of performance at that tier.
The Excelisor. I think Cryptic looked at it and thought...its old but its really well liked, and more importantly its TOO big to be anything lower then tier 3. But its true even this ship has outlived its usefulness. Most of the reasons we see these ships in Canon long after their lifespan. Is 1.) they were too broke to make new ships 2.) they always explained it away that the Federation was hurting and had pulled them off of menial duties or out of mothballed yards to fill in the holes in their fleets.
Whats sad is, DS9 and Voyager had alot of CGI and it was wasted on already out of date ships instead of giving us a look at a StarFleet that had come along ways since their times in TOS and TMP.
Please campaign to have the D'kyr, the T5 B'rel and the T5 Excelsior removed if you feel so strongly about it, because solid arguments can be made for them being equally out of place.
You'll be suprised how few people will support such a campaign. I think we were passed these arguments the moment cryptic issued the TOS type 3 phaser rifle, it looks ridicilously out of place, but it made a lot of people happy, and that's a good thing. Same can be said for all the other 22nd/23rth century stuff, you can't fight nostalgia.
There is no way to justify a 150 year old ship, that was scrapped, that have one ship yet in existence (in a museum for crying out loud) to cruise around as a frontline vessel.
But its NOT 150 years old. It is brand NEW ship, as in made over the last year or whatever, made to look like the Constitutions of old.
Besides the continual need to ignore this statement in the many, many, many,.... threads about this issue. one thing keeps recurring that most of us seem to agree on.
The tier system is really what is the sticking point. IF we are spending skill points that enable us to fly certain classes of ships, why do we have a tier system for the ships at all?
But its NOT 150 years old. It is brand NEW ship, as in made over the last year or whatever, made to look like the Constitutions of old.
Besides the continual need to ignore this statement in the many, many, many,.... threads about this issue. one thing keeps recurring that most of us seem to agree on.
The design of the ship is still at least 150 years old, and the "brand new ship" thing is just the explanation used to get by the fact that it shouldn't even exist in the game outside of the holodeck/time travel. Everyone knows that is nonsense, but they're willing to overlook it because of the iconic nature of the ship.
The actual brand new ship is the Excalibur, and even that is still only a T2 level ship.
The tier system is really what is the sticking point. IF we are spending skill points that enable us to fly certain classes of ships, why do we have a tier system for the ships at all?
Precisely. If people will stop clamoring for T5 TOSC and start clamoring for a new ship system that gives them more room to use the TOSC, they will find very little resistance.
No, really you guys, please stop with the attacking of one another. I have a flurry of reported posts in this thread.
Here's the plan: I'll go have a cup of hot chocolate now, read my email, go through community tickets... and when I get back, perhaps a few of the reported posts have gotten edited so I don't need to smack anyone or close down the thread.
No, really you guys, please stop with the attacking of one another. I have a flurry of reported posts in this thread.
Here's the plan: I'll go have a cup of hot chocolate now, read my email, go through community tickets... and when I get back, perhaps a few of the reported posts have gotten edited so I don't need to smack anyone or close down the thread.
I log on to the forums every day just to look for WishStone's Beatings They always make me laugh
No, really you guys, please stop with the attacking of one another. I have a flurry of reported posts in this thread.
Here's the plan: I'll go have a cup of hot chocolate now, read my email, go through community tickets... and when I get back, perhaps a few of the reported posts have gotten edited so I don't need to smack anyone or close down the thread.
"....if I had a ham-mer..,
.. I'd hammer in the mor-or-nin....,
........... I'd ham-mer in the eve-nin...,
......................... all over this thre-ad..."
I'll put in my conclusion, specifically on the T5 TOSC debate. Let me be clear that I am neither in favor of or completely opposed to this. I see both viewpoints and each has valid points to make.
However...
We're past the point at which anyone is going to be swayed by logical arguments from either side, or even from the center. This debate has spilled over into multiple threads all over the forum, some more civil than others, and seems to have taken a life of its' own. All that seems to be left is ridiculing or dismissing any non-conforming viewpoint while painting one's own argument as faultless.
Not even an official Dev response would settle this, and if I were on staff I'd be doing my best to ignore the whole topic at this point and just keep working according to whatever the plan is. If that plan includes what is being asked for, do us a favor and surprise us.
This pot doesn't need to be stirred up any more at this particular time.
What kills me, is that people try to get new ideas and items into the game all the time, Thats great that the community has a venue that the Dev's actually read, and for the most part take what we say to heart and try to accommodate the player base.
When people just start attacking stances, but the very next day try to get something they want in game is truly ridiculous.
Wouldn't it be better for the game, if everyone could just support the various causes? Im not saying you have to kow tow to every need and want, just state your opinion, but then support the community in their cause?
Would seem to me, that anything that could possibly attract previous players or perhaps new players would be good for the game in the long run.
What I find this brings up (again) is that Cryptic isn't at all interested designing a game world. The ship chart is a mess (some things are right but some things are very wrong and consistency is around zero), so are the ranks, the fleet content, the PVP, and the immersion is pretty low. Roleplay isn't even on their radar as dstahl has stated over and over. Ground combat is a work in progress but even space combat, as great as it is visually, could do with a loooot less Super Mario Magic Mushrooms (and the ship chart is really all about how many and what color Magic Mushrooms you get to consume at once) and a teensy bit more management seeing as how sensors and life support are completely non-factors.
What Cryptic does well at is content. STO is a good single player game that you have to pay to access, especially the featured episodes. Unfortunately they're so resource constrained that they're now crowdsourcing that (which enables us to have a more direct say but while still charging us the same, mind). Some of the shiny they sell in the C-Store is nice but they've also failed to be consistent in that content and how they make it available, further straining relations with the players. Letting this debate rage on for over 60 pages now shows they're just relying on polling results to see what new content they should or shouldn't introduce.
I think the fundamental conflict is that we care passionately about the details and design of the game world and to them it's just additional landscaping to enable the content. That's the heart of why we'll never be happy with STO beyond the quality of the content they're able to produce.
While I've disagreed with several of your previous posts, I think this one is largely on-target. Thank you.
Wouldn't it be better for the game, if everyone could just support the various causes? Im not saying you have to kow tow to every need and want, just state your opinion, but then support the community in their cause?
Would seem to me, that anything that could possibly attract previous players or perhaps new players would be good for the game in the long run.
Because quite simply, the various causes often contradict both each other and what would be best for the game.
This is, again, why the T5 HMS Enterprize thing gets used. If I seriously advocated that as my cause, why would you not support it?
Because quite simply, the various causes often contradict both each other and what would be best for the game.
This is, again, why the T5 HMS Enterprize thing gets used. If I seriously advocated that as my cause, why would you not support it?
And again, like i have stated previously, it honestly has no bearing on the I.P. Lets be fair and honest here, that HMS Enterprise is just to inflame the issue, which is what my last post was talking about.
Now if you honestly wanted say a original tug from the TOS era, i would have no problem supporting you in that issue, especially since before the game went live, some of the vessels now used for enemies were touted as player ships.
Can you not see the difference? if not we will never get these forums back to the state they use to be in, one of mutual support and more maturity then most other MMO's.
And again, like i have stated previously, it honestly has no bearing on the I.P. Lets be fair and honest here, that HMS Enterprise is just to inflame the issue, which is what my last post was talking about.
Now if you honestly wanted say a original tug from the TOS era, i would have no problem supporting you in that issue, especially since before the game went live, some of the vessels now used for enemies were touted as player ships.
Can you not see the difference? if not we will never get these forums back to the state they use to be in, one of mutual support and more maturity then most other MMO's.
No, it is not to inflame the issue. It is not to troll, spam, anger, irritate or otherwise act foolishly. It is to get you to understand both where we are coming from and how weak your position is.
T5 HMS Enterprize is so silly that you won't even consider it. That is how we feel about T5 TOSC. It is so silly it does not even warrant consideration, and yet myself and others have still taken the time to list perfectly good reasons both from the perspective of game mechanics and from the perspective of canon as to why it is ridiculous.
The T5 HMS Enterprize tactic forces T5 TOSC people to defend themselves against their own arguments. The defense is consistently the same exact thing: it crosses some invisible line between reasonable and absurd.
Once you use that defense, you acknowledge that there is a line and that now we're talking about where that line is, and yet, nobody has been able to draw a line between T5 TOSC and T5 HMS Enterprize that cannot be refuted by the same arguments they use for the T5 TOSC.
Because quite simply, the various causes often contradict both each other and what would be best for the game.
This is, again, why the T5 HMS Enterprize thing gets used. If I seriously advocated that as my cause, why would you not support it?
Because the HMS Enterprise is not a starship? Because there was no tv series or movie in the Star Trek IP set around the HMS Enterprise? Because the HMS Enterprise was used as a mere plot device?
Now apply those considerations to any of the other badly offered counterpoints to the TOS Connie such as the Millenium Falcon, or the Spitfire, or the Pheonix, or the space shuttle.
Because the HMS Enterprise is not a starship? Because there was no tv series or movie in the Star Trek IP set around the HMS Enterprise? Because the HMS Enterprise was used as a mere plot device?
Now apply those considerations to any of the other badly offered counterpoints to the TOS Connie such as the Millenium Falcon, or the Spitfire, or the Pheonix, or the space shuttle.
If I had the time, I'd actually go through the thread and use other people's quotes, but I don't, so I'll paraphrase a few:
"I'm sure Starfleet could make a ship that looks just like it and technology shrinks so it will fit."
"It'll be fun for me to use and bring in C-store revenue if it's there."
"Well you don't have to fly it, so just ignore it."
(Also, were I so inclined, I could add my own: the HMS Enterprize was not a plot device, she was a setting. And, depending on how you want to weigh things, the T5 TOSC never appeared in a feature film and the HMS Enterprize did.)
What I find this brings up (again) is that Cryptic isn't at all interested designing a game world.
Yes. This gets clearer and clearer.
It is unfortunate, then, that they chose a timeframe that puts them in the position of designing the game world (which, in different hands, would be a great opportunity) rather than something already established. In broad strokes - Kestrel's mostly, it seems - there's good stuff, but the details are not filled out very compellingly.
Perhaps the only solution on this issue, is the solution that everyone hates. But I've recommended it before, and so here it is again:
1) Era Based Server Shards - Operate them like an RP server, and make 4 distinct eras (TOS, TMP-STVI, TNG/DS9/VOY and 25th Century) and offer that as a means of seperation, as well as putting some locks on the server so TOS items can't be used in the TNG and 25th servers, etc.
or
2) Server / Client controls to set some default skins for other people's ships and uniforms. Would take tons of time and effort, but then there would be no more issue of "I don't like seeing TOS Connies, much less them blowing up my Sovereign." Plus, for those who hate the plethora of circus looking costumes running around, you could create your perfect little canon world and set up a defualt template to be applied to all characters you see.
Maybe these are really the only way to solve this issue since fans can't seem to get along, and enjoy Trek as a whole.
Yeah then there goes freedom to show whatever era you support in the 25th century. I mean for god sakes is it that unbelievable that an Admiral would dust off an old school ship. put in some new innerds and make it his own?
I WOULD LOVE A T5 TOS SHIP SPEAKING FOR MYSELF AS LONG AS IT HAS NO FEW THAN 4 FRONT AND 4 AFT WEAPON SLOTS IT SHOULD BE STANDARD ON ALL T5 SHIPS... AS WHE AS AN ENCREASE SIZE AND CREW SIZE AS WELL.
NEXT I DO AGREE WITH SHIPS LOOKING TO FIT THE TIMELINE AS WELL WOULD BE AWESOME AS LONG AS THEY ARE DONE RIGHT... HERE BELOW IS ONE THAT I THINK FITS!
THERE WAS AN ENTRY IN THE DESIGN THE NEW ENTERPRISE AND WELL THIS ONE HAD ME THE SESCOND I SAW IT I WANT TO CAPTAIN IT NOW... I WAS THINKING IT COULD LEAD OFF THE NEW T6 SHIP AND WITH LUCK THEY WOULD HAVE 5 FRONT AND 5 AFT WEAPON SLOTS! AND A CREW OF 1500 - 2000? (YES I LOVE THIS SHIP SO MUCH IT'S NOW MY WALLPAPER SO EVERYDAY I LOOK AT IT!)
THE NAME OF THE CLASS IS MEGELLANIC AND IT WAS LISTED AS NCC-1701-F
THIS GUY THE DESIGNED IT HAS A WEB SITE. WWW.VEKTORVISUAL.COM
THE OTHER TWIST I HAVE IN INSTEAD OF GETTING A NEW SHIP AT EVERY LEVEL MAYBE WE COULD HAVE A CHOICE OF A REFIT FOR THE SHIP ( EXTRA BO SLOT, WEAPON UPGRADE AND A SLOT OF TO FOR OTHER GOODIES.) YOUR USING CUZ SOMETHING YOU END UP FLYING UNDERRATDE SHIPS FOR YOUR RANK CUZ YOU ROLLPLAYING AND THE OTHER SHIPS DONT FIT YOU CHARACTER. SO FOR EVERY SHIP THEY WOULD HAVE SHIPS NORMAL AND REFIT. SO WHEN YOU RANK UP YOU HAVE A CHOICE A REFIT FOR THE SHIP YOUR FLYING OR YOU MOVE ON TO THE NEXT LEVEL.
THE THING THAT MESS WITH EVERYONE IS THAT THE TIMELINE OF THE SHIPS ARE OFF MAYBE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER IS TO DO WHAT JJ ADAMS DID AND REWRITE THE TIMELINE TO MAKE USE OF THE OLDER SHIPS.
THE ONLY THING I THINK OF WHEN I'M ROLEPLAYING IS THAT STARFLEET DOSENT GIVE NEW SHIPS TO YOUNG CAPTAINS! THAT IS UNLESS YOUR CAPTAIN KIRK AND YOU JUST SAVED THE WORLD AND ALL!
Comments
Seriously. Explain to me people how putting a few weapon slots. Adding a tiny bit bigger hull and all that jazz will effect Episodes coming out at all?
No, you should find those things stupid, and then realize that what you're asking for is equally stupid and that the arguments being made in favor of doing it can easily be made for that thing that you will immediately recognize as stupid.
That's why those things are brought up. Not because anyone thinks it makes sense to have any of those things in the game at all, much less at T5, but because the arguments being made for T5 TOSC can literally be made for anything anyone wants regardless of how stupid it is.
There is no reason other than to satisfy "I WANT!" to do anything with the TOSC, but an overwhelming number of reasons not to do it having to do with everything from game design to canon to basic logic.
Why can't all the yay-sayers understand all the reasons the Iconic ship should remain right where it is?
It's a real simple concept that the game is set in the 25th century wherein that ship is ancient and shouldn't even be in the setting at all but has already been given a pass due to that iconic nature. That a game with Tier Lists needs to enforce the Tier List or get rid of it. That it isn't fair to anyone who likes some other non-T5 ship doesn't get to have their favorite in the T5 list. And so on and so forth.
I have yet to see anyone threaten to cancel if they don't get a T5 TOSC. I have, however, seen someone quit on the very inclusion of the NX in the game. So, I think when it comes to which thing is more likely to kill the game, the inability of the game to retain some form of consistency or immersive setting is probably higher on the list.
Trekkies always argue about things and they always find things to ***** about.
Personally I take as an indicator od despiration because they have nothing.
This is why anal fans should be ignored, if the guys running the franchise had just listened to Roddenberry's advice in this area we wouldn't have needed Abrams to save the franchise and it would still be on TV.
The point is: We think the HMS Enterprize or a Spitfire or the Phoenix is as malplaced and outdated at T5 as the TOS Ships, that cant be that hard to grasp..
There is no way to justify a 150 year old ship, that was scrapped, that have one ship yet in existence (in a museum for crying out loud) to cruise around as a frontline vessel.
Yes, there are several ships in the game that dont belong.. No more outdated TRIBBLE destroying what little believability we have left..
What Cryptic does well at is content. STO is a good single player game that you have to pay to access, especially the featured episodes. Unfortunately they're so resource constrained that they're now crowdsourcing that (which enables us to have a more direct say but while still charging us the same, mind). Some of the shiny they sell in the C-Store is nice but they've also failed to be consistent in that content and how they make it available, further straining relations with the players. Letting this debate rage on for over 60 pages now shows they're just relying on polling results to see what new content they should or shouldn't introduce.
I think the fundamental conflict is that we care passionately about the details and design of the game world and to them it's just additional landscaping to enable the content. That's the heart of why we'll never be happy with STO beyond the quality of the content they're able to produce.
It has been mentioned that some might leave over this not being in game.
When, exactly, is the cut off point for that?
May, July?
It was put on hold/canceled 6 months ago and many of you are still here
I'm just curious, I won't be in the thread that long
Please campaign to have the D'kyr, the T5 B'rel and the T5 Excelsior removed if you feel so strongly about it, because solid arguments can be made for them being equally out of place.
The D'Kyr was probably misunderstood as to what it really was by most...and most players probably dont even know how old it is. But it was different and not a typical Fed ship so most just went along with it.
The Br'el was in most peoples eyes. Cryptics attempt to give Klingons the same affordable chance to have Refits just as the Feds do, Unfortunately it was a poor choice in ship (the excuse one blew up the Enterprise is bull and you all know it.. the klingons went thru great lengths to bypass the Galaxy's securities) and more over, its ability to be effective at T5 shows what happens when you put a ship not capable of running at that level of performance at that tier.
The Excelisor. I think Cryptic looked at it and thought...its old but its really well liked, and more importantly its TOO big to be anything lower then tier 3. But its true even this ship has outlived its usefulness. Most of the reasons we see these ships in Canon long after their lifespan. Is 1.) they were too broke to make new ships 2.) they always explained it away that the Federation was hurting and had pulled them off of menial duties or out of mothballed yards to fill in the holes in their fleets.
Whats sad is, DS9 and Voyager had alot of CGI and it was wasted on already out of date ships instead of giving us a look at a StarFleet that had come along ways since their times in TOS and TMP.
You'll be suprised how few people will support such a campaign. I think we were passed these arguments the moment cryptic issued the TOS type 3 phaser rifle, it looks ridicilously out of place, but it made a lot of people happy, and that's a good thing. Same can be said for all the other 22nd/23rth century stuff, you can't fight nostalgia.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it
But its NOT 150 years old. It is brand NEW ship, as in made over the last year or whatever, made to look like the Constitutions of old.
Besides the continual need to ignore this statement in the many, many, many,.... threads about this issue. one thing keeps recurring that most of us seem to agree on.
The tier system is really what is the sticking point. IF we are spending skill points that enable us to fly certain classes of ships, why do we have a tier system for the ships at all?
The design of the ship is still at least 150 years old, and the "brand new ship" thing is just the explanation used to get by the fact that it shouldn't even exist in the game outside of the holodeck/time travel. Everyone knows that is nonsense, but they're willing to overlook it because of the iconic nature of the ship.
The actual brand new ship is the Excalibur, and even that is still only a T2 level ship.
Precisely. If people will stop clamoring for T5 TOSC and start clamoring for a new ship system that gives them more room to use the TOSC, they will find very little resistance.
Here's the plan: I'll go have a cup of hot chocolate now, read my email, go through community tickets... and when I get back, perhaps a few of the reported posts have gotten edited so I don't need to smack anyone or close down the thread.
I log on to the forums every day just to look for WishStone's Beatings They always make me laugh
"....if I had a ham-mer..,
.. I'd hammer in the mor-or-nin....,
........... I'd ham-mer in the eve-nin...,
......................... all over this thre-ad..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UKvpONl3No
However...
We're past the point at which anyone is going to be swayed by logical arguments from either side, or even from the center. This debate has spilled over into multiple threads all over the forum, some more civil than others, and seems to have taken a life of its' own. All that seems to be left is ridiculing or dismissing any non-conforming viewpoint while painting one's own argument as faultless.
Not even an official Dev response would settle this, and if I were on staff I'd be doing my best to ignore the whole topic at this point and just keep working according to whatever the plan is. If that plan includes what is being asked for, do us a favor and surprise us.
This pot doesn't need to be stirred up any more at this particular time.
When people just start attacking stances, but the very next day try to get something they want in game is truly ridiculous.
Wouldn't it be better for the game, if everyone could just support the various causes? Im not saying you have to kow tow to every need and want, just state your opinion, but then support the community in their cause?
Would seem to me, that anything that could possibly attract previous players or perhaps new players would be good for the game in the long run.
While I've disagreed with several of your previous posts, I think this one is largely on-target. Thank you.
Because quite simply, the various causes often contradict both each other and what would be best for the game.
This is, again, why the T5 HMS Enterprize thing gets used. If I seriously advocated that as my cause, why would you not support it?
And again, like i have stated previously, it honestly has no bearing on the I.P. Lets be fair and honest here, that HMS Enterprise is just to inflame the issue, which is what my last post was talking about.
Now if you honestly wanted say a original tug from the TOS era, i would have no problem supporting you in that issue, especially since before the game went live, some of the vessels now used for enemies were touted as player ships.
Can you not see the difference? if not we will never get these forums back to the state they use to be in, one of mutual support and more maturity then most other MMO's.
No, it is not to inflame the issue. It is not to troll, spam, anger, irritate or otherwise act foolishly. It is to get you to understand both where we are coming from and how weak your position is.
T5 HMS Enterprize is so silly that you won't even consider it. That is how we feel about T5 TOSC. It is so silly it does not even warrant consideration, and yet myself and others have still taken the time to list perfectly good reasons both from the perspective of game mechanics and from the perspective of canon as to why it is ridiculous.
The T5 HMS Enterprize tactic forces T5 TOSC people to defend themselves against their own arguments. The defense is consistently the same exact thing: it crosses some invisible line between reasonable and absurd.
Once you use that defense, you acknowledge that there is a line and that now we're talking about where that line is, and yet, nobody has been able to draw a line between T5 TOSC and T5 HMS Enterprize that cannot be refuted by the same arguments they use for the T5 TOSC.
Because the HMS Enterprise is not a starship? Because there was no tv series or movie in the Star Trek IP set around the HMS Enterprise? Because the HMS Enterprise was used as a mere plot device?
Now apply those considerations to any of the other badly offered counterpoints to the TOS Connie such as the Millenium Falcon, or the Spitfire, or the Pheonix, or the space shuttle.
If I had the time, I'd actually go through the thread and use other people's quotes, but I don't, so I'll paraphrase a few:
"I'm sure Starfleet could make a ship that looks just like it and technology shrinks so it will fit."
"It'll be fun for me to use and bring in C-store revenue if it's there."
"Well you don't have to fly it, so just ignore it."
(Also, were I so inclined, I could add my own: the HMS Enterprize was not a plot device, she was a setting. And, depending on how you want to weigh things, the T5 TOSC never appeared in a feature film and the HMS Enterprize did.)
Yes. This gets clearer and clearer.
It is unfortunate, then, that they chose a timeframe that puts them in the position of designing the game world (which, in different hands, would be a great opportunity) rather than something already established. In broad strokes - Kestrel's mostly, it seems - there's good stuff, but the details are not filled out very compellingly.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3451231#post3451231
1) Era Based Server Shards - Operate them like an RP server, and make 4 distinct eras (TOS, TMP-STVI, TNG/DS9/VOY and 25th Century) and offer that as a means of seperation, as well as putting some locks on the server so TOS items can't be used in the TNG and 25th servers, etc.
or
2) Server / Client controls to set some default skins for other people's ships and uniforms. Would take tons of time and effort, but then there would be no more issue of "I don't like seeing TOS Connies, much less them blowing up my Sovereign." Plus, for those who hate the plethora of circus looking costumes running around, you could create your perfect little canon world and set up a defualt template to be applied to all characters you see.
Maybe these are really the only way to solve this issue since fans can't seem to get along, and enjoy Trek as a whole.
NEXT I DO AGREE WITH SHIPS LOOKING TO FIT THE TIMELINE AS WELL WOULD BE AWESOME AS LONG AS THEY ARE DONE RIGHT... HERE BELOW IS ONE THAT I THINK FITS!
THERE WAS AN ENTRY IN THE DESIGN THE NEW ENTERPRISE AND WELL THIS ONE HAD ME THE SESCOND I SAW IT I WANT TO CAPTAIN IT NOW... I WAS THINKING IT COULD LEAD OFF THE NEW T6 SHIP AND WITH LUCK THEY WOULD HAVE 5 FRONT AND 5 AFT WEAPON SLOTS! AND A CREW OF 1500 - 2000? (YES I LOVE THIS SHIP SO MUCH IT'S NOW MY WALLPAPER SO EVERYDAY I LOOK AT IT!)
THE NAME OF THE CLASS IS MEGELLANIC AND IT WAS LISTED AS NCC-1701-F
THIS GUY THE DESIGNED IT HAS A WEB SITE. WWW.VEKTORVISUAL.COM
THE OTHER TWIST I HAVE IN INSTEAD OF GETTING A NEW SHIP AT EVERY LEVEL MAYBE WE COULD HAVE A CHOICE OF A REFIT FOR THE SHIP ( EXTRA BO SLOT, WEAPON UPGRADE AND A SLOT OF TO FOR OTHER GOODIES.) YOUR USING CUZ SOMETHING YOU END UP FLYING UNDERRATDE SHIPS FOR YOUR RANK CUZ YOU ROLLPLAYING AND THE OTHER SHIPS DONT FIT YOU CHARACTER. SO FOR EVERY SHIP THEY WOULD HAVE SHIPS NORMAL AND REFIT. SO WHEN YOU RANK UP YOU HAVE A CHOICE A REFIT FOR THE SHIP YOUR FLYING OR YOU MOVE ON TO THE NEXT LEVEL.
THE THING THAT MESS WITH EVERYONE IS THAT THE TIMELINE OF THE SHIPS ARE OFF MAYBE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER IS TO DO WHAT JJ ADAMS DID AND REWRITE THE TIMELINE TO MAKE USE OF THE OLDER SHIPS.
THE ONLY THING I THINK OF WHEN I'M ROLEPLAYING IS THAT STARFLEET DOSENT GIVE NEW SHIPS TO YOUNG CAPTAINS! THAT IS UNLESS YOUR CAPTAIN KIRK AND YOU JUST SAVED THE WORLD AND ALL!