I want to see people reaction, if cryptic was going to release for only 500 emblems, no c-store, no quest just emblems... people would be more outraged then now...
And again, 500 emblems is grindable in approx 1 month. Possible also for casuals? nope not really, but in what game people get topend gear without investing any time at all.
It like people in wow would demand to get frostmourne in less then a month...
People need to realize, that ships are also equpiment, basically they are your armor set and if you put that in that perspective the howl system becomes crystal clear.
You get your basic armor (EC optainable on different tiers), you get your level-cap reward armor, and you have your uncommon armor grindable through emblems/marks.
well here we have it, the biggest apologist in the game as of now. (there has been worse). guy, ships are needed to do anything in the game. ships should be released in the game and maybe new skins (like when the game launched) would be fine in the c store... if there was no c store, u know as well as i, that cryptic would set the price at somewhere between 100 emblems and a 150 emblems...
this games primary audience is the casual player. when you take on something like the star trek franchise, more than half of the fans are somewhere between 28-and 60 something, maybe even older. they marketed this game to that genre, and unfortunatly for you who seems to like to torture youruself, most people of that age have work, and familys. as ive stated to you b4, not all of us are basement virgins who do nothing but sit on the internet all day every day.
its not like demanding frostmourne, frostmourne is a piece of equipment, so if you take your argument, we should have rarer "loot" drops and craftable that would equal out to about the same... remember its not about the ship, but more about the equipoment you put on that ship, and i for one feel that getting the borg set and the aegis set is way too easy, those are the things that you shold have to grind for, and that would make it possible for someone who is a "casual" player to at least be able to play their favorite ship, maybe they wont have uber weapons or shields or other equipment, but they could be the excelsior, or the defient, or what not, and still be able to enjoy content.... emblems should not be for ships, they should be for equipment... u are dead wrong about the ship being a peice of equipoment, as you cannot play the game without a ship... the ship is ur character in space and that is not up for debate. no ship, no star trek, cause you couldnt do any mission without it....
Game changing and change the game aren't really usually considered the same thing, and either way I didn't mean them the same way. None of those items, or the lack thereof, will make one player signigicantly more able to play the game than any other, thus they are not "game changing".
Well, therein lies the confusion. If you consider 'game-changing' solely to be a 'significant mechanical advantage', then yes, you have a point (although the case could be made that ships such as the Excelsior or the new Prometheus have /just/ such an advantage, since none of the easily-available ships have BO layouts that permit a Commander and a Lt. Commander of a different speciality).
However, I think 'game-changing' is just as validly interpreted as 'changing the nature of the game' - these ships /play/ differently. They are - essentially - a new 'class'. They are new 'content' and they are very much part of the game. And we are being charged excessively for them.
I would agree with the OP if it were not so easy to earn Emblems. The average, casual player can earn 15+ Emblems a day.
You can either pay around $15 in the C-Store and get the ship immediately or you can spend about 1 months time (which it just so happens is a $15 sub fee) to earn the Emblems in game.
If you want the 500 Emblem price reduced, then the C-Store price needs to be reduced to match.
Well, therein lies the confusion. If you consider 'game-changing' solely to be a 'significant mechanical advantage', then yes, you have a point (although the case could be made that ships such as the Excelsior or the new Prometheus have /just/ such an advantage, since none of the easily-available ships have BO layouts that permit a Commander and a Lt. Commander of a different speciality).
However, I think 'game-changing' is just as validly interpreted as 'changing the nature of the game' - these ships /play/ differently. They are - essentially - a new 'class'. They are new 'content' and they are very much part of the game. And we are being charged excessively for them.
try thinking of game changing two ways, yes mechanically, these ships can give you an advantage, ie, the nebula can detect cloaked ships, they give you a boff layout that in some cases might give you an advantage, depending on the player and the build. also, some of them give unique options as well, as far as buffs, and turning radious, or the ability to have a universal boff slot... these are all things that i see as game changing.. think of it as having a little extra horsepower in a drag race, or having the more acurate gun in a shooting contest...
also, game changing can mean something different for people. i myself might only be able to afford to pay the monthly subscript, (which i do purchase off the c store, so this isnt about me, but a scenario) and cant afford to purchase c store items... you work all day, come home to a wife and a few kids, and you only have a few hourus to play a night... now say i grew up loving the ambassoder class. it gets released to the c store, and i cant afford to buy it, and i dont have the time to grind emblems, it would take someone who can only play 3 nights a week well over 6 months to a year to get enouph emblems to purchase it... so now cryptic is telling this person that they cannot play the ship they love dearly... this would cause some people to quit the game (out of frustration). 200 emblems is still steep, but not so impossible... what i think happened was cryptic set the price, and since no one had anything to do for so long, they stock piled them, and no one has been spending money on the c store for these ships, so instead of looking at it as "wow, we screwed up by not having content, and not having anouph things to spend emblems on" they said, "well TRIBBLE, we need to up the emblem cost to make sure this doesnt happend again....
i mean put mk12 stuff in the game and emblems will get spent, cryptic/atari needs to stop being lazy and just get it done.... there was a thousand other ways to get around the emblem problem, but they took the easiest and the one that took the least work....
ill say again, how are they ever going to be able to create the first expansion when they cant even keep up the the promises they are not keeping in the now...
Game changing and change the game aren't really usually considered the same thing, and either way I didn't mean them the same way. None of those items, or the lack thereof, will make one player signigicantly more able to play the game than any other, thus they are not "game changing".
Edit: You pay a monthly fee because they charge a monthly fee to access the game. Whatever that comes with is what you get for free with that subscription. Fine if you wish to nit-pick and say that it's thus not free; but if it's available in game, it cost nothing extra (usuallly aka...free).
Sir on what moon are you born! so by your definition extra resist or extra damage is not "game changing"? or the extra Xp boost do not change the game? what about the ships Galaxy x with now extra weapon slot or the excelcior with transwarp do not change the game?!
what about your statement "Game changing and change the game" is not the same ?! dude your on drugs right?
and if you want to go technical things you buy from the c-store are cheaper then wen you grind for it !! takes lots of time to get the emblems and in the long run you payed more for it (ok ok there is a small amount in there to get access to the game ok your right about that) but time you spent on farming is no time having fun or doing stf's or pvp.
ehm can i ask you one more thing, does your mom or dad pay for your game and c-store items or maybe your rich and don't know the value of money?! not judging but if of this is true then i understand you.
this will be the last reply i'll make about this before the rage goes to far "if it is not already gone to far".
i'll be the smarter one and i will just shut my pie-hole from now.
To the best of my knowledge, no. Only the Defiant, Intrepid and Galaxy Retrofits are presently available for the free VA token. The Nebula and Excelsior are not, and the Prometheus MVAM will not be.
ah thanks rest my case so there is no way to get the nebula or excelsior or even the galaxy x true free tokens ... "not complaining about this just checking" btw i have all of them, oh wait the galaxy x i don't have "yet".
I would agree with the OP if it were not so easy to earn Emblems. The average, casual player can earn 15+ Emblems a day.
You can either pay around $15 in the C-Store and get the ship immediately or you can spend about 1 months time (which it just so happens is a $15 sub fee) to earn the Emblems in game.
If you want the 500 Emblem price reduced, then the C-Store price needs to be reduced to match.
ummm, the emblem price went up, without the price in the c store changing, so i dont see how your argument holds water... if i was to buy everything that they are going to release in the c store, this is what it equals, a months worth of gas, a months worth of food, the insurance cost of my car, more than i would have spent on wow in two years.
this game is a very expensive game and its not even complete.
Well, therein lies the confusion. If you consider 'game-changing' solely to be a 'significant mechanical advantage', then yes, you have a point (although the case could be made that ships such as the Excelsior or the new Prometheus have /just/ such an advantage, since none of the easily-available ships have BO layouts that permit a Commander and a Lt. Commander of a different speciality).
However, I think 'game-changing' is just as validly interpreted as 'changing the nature of the game' - these ships /play/ differently. They are - essentially - a new 'class'. They are new 'content' and they are very much part of the game. And we are being charged excessively for them.
But, it really doesn't matter in the end because Cryptic decided that rather than have to deal with this argument at all they just made everything (except the Galaxy-X for good reasons) available through in game methods. Doesn't stop people who just like complaining about everything though. Go figure.
But, it really doesn't matter in the end because Cryptic decided that rather than have to deal with this argument at all they just made everything (except the Galaxy-X for good reasons) available through in game methods. Doesn't stop people who just like complaining about everything though. Go figure.
arguments and discussing the hot topics are what leads to change... are you saying, that you wouldnt be happy if they dropped the emblem cost back to what it was, or even stopped putting game changing content in the c store... u people who are trying to defend the c store seem to like to spend money. i mean when you go to get a cup of coffee, do you ask if they can charge you xtra just for s and giggles. does it make you guys feel bigger that you pay xtra for things....
we are not complaining, but mearly voicing our concearns.. this is a buiseness, we are the consumers.. if the only people who were in the game were people like you, there would be maybe a couple of hundred people in the game... alot, and i mean alot of people are very unhappy with this game.. for every 1 person i see who defends the game and its wallet crushing ways, there are ten people aposing it....
im not trying to personally attack you, just using you as the esample. its crazy to me that anyone would go against anyone trying to change the game for the better. if i were someone who didnt mind the current pricing, id sit back and see what happens, cause i wouldnt mind if pricing came down... you cryptic "fan boys" make my head hurt....
Sir on what moon are you born! so by your definition extra resist or extra damage is not "game changing"? or the extra Xp boost do not change the game? what about the ships Galaxy x with now extra weapon slot or the excelcior with transwarp do not change the game?!
what about your statement "Game changing and change the game" is not the same ?! dude your on drugs right?
and if you want to go technical things you buy from the c-store are cheaper then wen you grind for it !! takes lots of time to get the emblems and in the long run you payed more for it (ok ok there is a small amount in there to get access to the game ok your right about that) but time you spent on farming is no time having fun or doing stf's or pvp.
ehm can i ask you one more thing, does your mom or dad pay for your game and c-store items or maybe your rich and don't know the value of money?! not judging but if of this is true then i understand you.
this will be the last reply i'll make about this before the rage goes to far "if it is not already gone to far".
i'll be the smarter one and i will just shut my pie-hole from now.
With this post, I'd say you already gave up on the real argument by resorting to whatever this was. I would just say that I support myself and I'm not rich (although I'm not sure when that became a bad thing), but are we to assume that you are poor? And if that's the case it's too bad, but it's hardly a fair reason that Cryptic should lower the price of items they have spent considerable time developing.
But, it really doesn't matter in the end because Cryptic decided that rather than have to deal with this argument at all they just made everything (except the Galaxy-X for good reasons) available through in game methods. Doesn't stop people who just like complaining about everything though. Go figure.
I assure you I /don't/ like complaining, but my opinion has changed on seeing the way Cryptic have operated the C-store and their business. At first I was all for it, then I was 'meh', but the addition of the MVAM Prometheus is the final straw.
I've addressed 'available in game' numerous times, and I can only ask again: When does the emblem cost become so unreasonable to you that it no longer qualifies as 'available in game'? 1000 emblems? 10000? Would you say a cost of a million emblems still satisfied the letter of 'available in game' and be happy with that?
500 is already /well/ past the point of acceptability for me given the nature of the rewards.
arguments and discussing the hot topics are what leads to change... are you saying, that you wouldnt be happy if they dropped the emblem cost back to what it was, or even stopped putting game changing content in the c store... u people who are trying to defend the c store seem to like to spend money. i mean when you go to get a cup of coffee, do you ask if they can charge you xtra just for s and giggles. does it make you guys feel bigger that you pay xtra for things....
we are not complaining, but mearly voicing our concearns.. this is a buiseness, we are the consumers.. if the only people who were in the game were people like you, there would be maybe a couple of hundred people in the game... alot, and i mean alot of people are very unhappy with this game.. for every 1 person i see who defends the game and its wallet crushing ways, there are ten people aposing it....
im not trying to personally attack you, just using you as the esample. its crazy to me that anyone would go against anyone trying to change the game for the better. if i were someone who didnt mind the current pricing, id sit back and see what happens, cause i wouldnt mind if pricing came down... you cryptic "fan boys" make my head hurt....
The problem is your premise is flawed. You assume that these items with be added to the game regardless. There is no basis for that assumption. If they can't charge what they are, they may just not add them. I assume they are smart and are charging a price at which they maximize their revenue. Why would they do anything else.
Now I assume that when they say that the only way they can justify the time for these special player requested items is by putting the in the C-Store, i believe them because I have no reason not to. I further believe that it's possible that without them being able to do, they would very like not add these items to the game, or at least not as soon.
And, so while you may be right, I see no reason to take that risk for a lowering of an already insignificant price. So as I see it you are trying to harm the game by complaining against something that is good...more and more items in the C-Store at whatever price Cryptic feels is necessary to put them in. So please stop.
With this post, I'd say you already gave up on the real argument by resorting to whatever this was. I would just say that I support myself and I'm not rich (although I'm not sure when that became a bad thing), but are we to assume that you are poor? And if that's the case it's too bad, but it's hardly a fair reason that Cryptic should lower the price of items they have spent considerable time developing.
hehe ok i said i was not gonna reply anymore guess i was wrong my self!
No i'm not poor (have almost all c-store items) and if you happen to be rich that is not a bad thing, it is just that i can understand that you don't have a real value of money sense!
i do apologize if i offended you in any way "was not my intent and wen i'm in fury i go crazy hence my reply before" sorry.
and developing time that cryptic put in is part payed by the monthly fee won't you say? probably not but that aside. i don't ask that the prize of c-store items goes down, just the emblems you have to remember one major thing C-store items is for all your chars on the account, emblem item is for that char only ... get it now, see why we are .. complaining?
The problem is your premise is flawed. You assume that these items with be added to the game regardless. There is no basis for that assumption. If they can't charge what they are, they may just not add them. I assume they are smart and are charging a price at which they maximize their revenue. Why would they do anything else.
Now I assume that when they say that the only way they can justify the time for these special player requested items is by putting the in the C-Store, i believe them because I have no reason not to. I further believe that it's possible that without them being able to do, they would very like not add these items to the game, or at least not as soon.
And, so while you may be right, I see no reason to take that risk for a lowering of an already insignificant price. So as I see it you are trying to harm the game by complaining against something that is good...more and more items in the C-Store at whatever price Cryptic feels is necessary to put them in. So please stop.
this is star trek online, of course iconic ships are going to be put in the game. as d stahl has said, the c store mearly made them come a little faster... i could do without open jackets and tos stuff. u thinking that they would not put iconic things in the game is flawed... they said a billion times when they were first talking about the game and promoting it that this game was going to be as closest star trek game to canon, and that all the iconic things would be in it. and blah blah blah blah... so you stop sir and smell the coffee...
And if that's the case it's too bad, but it's hardly a fair reason that Cryptic should lower the price of items they have spent considerable time developing.
I've no doubt they did, but I reiterate: I don't believe for a flat second they spent enough time to justify a $15 price tag. Entire games that involve dozens of people working for a year or more retail for a mere three times that amount.
I don't think anyone here is asking for anything for free: We're already paying Cryptic to provide us with a game to play, and I think the complaints would be a lot less justified if the cost for these additions was /not/ so outrageous... but ultimately it /is/ extortionate, and there's a good /many/ reasons why a company might not want to extort their customers regardless of how much money it makes them, ranging from maintaining goodwill to just good old ethical business practice.
So ultimately, yes, you're right, Cryptic are free to charge what they like and seek out money in any way possible. Likewise, as customers, we're allowed to come here and voice our disgust at being fleeced, and inform Cryptic that these practices are harming their image as a company in our eyes and making us far, far less likely to want to support them in future.
ummm, the emblem price went up, without the price in the c store changing, so i dont see how your argument holds water...
Yes, Emblem cost was changed to roughly equate to a months subscription fee (eg. around 30 days to farm 500 emblems). If they were to lower the Emblem cost now, they would need to lower the C-Store price. That is how it "holds water" and this is why it is not going to happen.
Yes, Emblem cost was changed to roughly equate to a months subscription fee (eg. around 30 days to farm 500 emblems). If they were to lower the Emblem cost now, they would need to lower the C-Store price. That is how it "holds water" and this is why it is not going to happen.
^ This
I don't mind buying ships from the C-Store. I spend more on beer in a week.
I had about 200 something emblems when Cryptic increased the Emblem cost to 500 for those ships.
Since then I have not grinded emblems since. It was a bad move then, its still a bad move now.
I'm sorry, I must have missed when they increased the Emblem price required to purchase ANY ship.
If you're referring to the Nebula, its Marks of Exploration, and it was needed because it was literally the ONLY one that had a different price - despite it costing exactly the same via the Cstore.
But aside from that, all the ships available for emblems have always been 500. No change there.
Daily PvP : 3 emblems
Daily FA : 3 Emblems
Daily Exploration (B'tran 3+1) : 4 emblems
Daily Deferi : 5 Emblems
Daily Devidian : 3 Emblems (+3 every 5 days or so)
500 / 18 and you end up at 28 days
I pay 138.50 DKr (equal to about 26 USD) for 2000 CPoints (Atari Tokens)
How much playtime do you get for that kinda money? Around 2 months worth I suppose (to lazy to check), which means you can skip half of the dailies and still break even with someone that pay for it..
And its not like the dailies take a loooooong time to do
And its not like the dailies take a loooooong time to do
If you can do all that - 18 emblerms - in less than 2 hours you're a better person than I. Probably longer.
So the /best case scenario/ is an entire month, every day, for 2 hours a day. That's not fun, that's /work/. And that assumes you're capable of that: If you break that up so it ceases being such a chore, you're looking at 3 months or more.
If you can do all that - 18 emblerms - in less than 2 hours you're a better person than I. Probably longer.
So the /best case scenario/ is an entire month, every day, for 2 hours a day. That's not fun, that's /work/. And that assumes you're capable of that: If you break that up so it ceases being such a chore, you're looking at 3 months or more.
Not. Reasonable.
Working for something you want (& don't need at all). There's a foreign concept.
I Don't Mind, Items being placed on the C-Store but the 500 emblerms u need to get something is abit more, inside of removing or lowering that number, wouldn't the better answer be to increase the amount of Emblerms u get per mission? i've done missions which only give 1 emblerms for doing somethig that may take half anhour to do.
Keep the 500 but increase the amount of Emblerms you per mission or add them to more missions at VA level.
just to add, i've spent a fair bit on the C-Store, from the open Jackets to the Nebula Class and the Delta fly and a few bridge packs and 4 charcter slots.
Folks, 500 emblems is really a pretty fair deal. If you don't want to spend the time to earn the emblems, you have the option to buy the item from the C-Store.
I've played quite a few MMOs in my day, and having a wait for an end game level item is nothing new to the MMO world.
There is a long standing tradition in fact of having hard to earn items available in MMOs. One might even say it's an MMO Trope.
I've spent weeks searching for hard to find items in old games like GemStone or Dragon Realms. I literally spent months camping this really old cyclops in an early MMO so I could take something only he would drop, and trade it in for a pair of boots that would let me run fast. I've also spent inordinately large amounts of time going on raids so I could get the best gear available for my class, just to have someone who showed up for the raid the first time ever win the roll for an item I still needed.
I like the way things are done here better. Pick a reward, and start saving up for it. No random factor required, you get the required amount of funds, and you can now earn the item you wish to have the most. Plus, if you really have to have an item right now, you have the option of the C-store available to you.
MMOs are always going to have something else to achieve, some new piece of gear you desperately require, or some sort of new challenge to face. The C-store simply allows you to trade time for money, when working to acquire these things. Money which then goes back into the game so we can continue to make Star Trek Online better for you.
I'll continue to believe that one month worth of play time spent gathering emblems is a fair trade when I compare it to my own experiences raiding, and grinding, in other MMOs, to earn similar rewards. I'd much rather know when I'm going to get the item I need than to spend another few months sitting on an island in the middle of an empty zone waiting for one particular mob to show up.
Really, the point of all this is... If you think about the alternatives, this is really much better.
Folks, 500 emblems is really a pretty fair deal. If you don't want to spend the time to earn the emblems, you have the option to buy the item from the C-Store.
I've played quite a few MMOs in my day, and having a wait for an end game level item is nothing new to the MMO world.
There is a long standing tradition in fact of having hard to earn items available in MMOs. One might even say it's an MMO Trope.
To support the statements above, see Jedi and Mandalorian armor in SWG(pre NGE of course).
To support the statements above, see Jedi and Mandalorian armor in SWG(pre NGE of course).
I was just going to say that but you beat ms to it. I also remember a certain Wild Boar on a certain desert planet that I camped for, for hours only to have some noob come along and get the first shot in, there by gettting the rare drop. Needless to say, I was not happy. I much prefer Cryptic way.
Folks, 500 emblems is really a pretty fair deal. If you don't want to spend the time to earn the emblems, you have the option to buy the item from the C-Store.
I've played quite a few MMOs in my day, and having a wait for an end game level item is nothing new to the MMO world.
There is a long standing tradition in fact of having hard to earn items available in MMOs. One might even say it's an MMO Trope.
I've spent weeks searching for hard to find items in old games like GemStone or Dragon Realms. I literally spent months camping this really old cyclops in an early MMO so I could take something only he would drop, and trade it in for a pair of boots that would let me run fast. I've also spent inordinately large amounts of time going on raids so I could get the best gear available for my class, just to have someone who showed up for the raid the first time ever win the roll for an item I still needed.
I like the way things are done here better. Pick a reward, and start saving up for it. No random factor required, you get the required amount of funds, and you can now earn the item you wish to have the most. Plus, if you really have to have an item right now, you have the option of the C-store available to you.
MMOs are always going to have something else to achieve, some new piece of gear you desperately require, or some sort of new challenge to face. The C-store simply allows you to trade time for money, when working to acquire these things. Money which then goes back into the game so we can continue to make Star Trek Online better for you.
I'll continue to believe that one month worth of play time spent gathering emblems is a fair trade when I compare it to my own experiences raiding, and grinding, in other MMOs, to earn similar rewards. I'd much rather know when I'm going to get the item I need than to spend another few months sitting on an island in the middle of an empty zone waiting for one particular mob to show up.
Really, the point of all this is... If you think about the alternatives, this is really much better.
Thanks,
Stormshade
storm, i think your missing some of the argument, not all of us are people who live and breathe by our computers, not all of us have an opurtunity to play every day, and not all of us have an opurtunity to get every daily done and play the content we want to play in the amount of time we are given by wives, families, work, other real life issues.. the point here is that 200 emblems for the "average" player was well over a month worth of accumulating, and now because some people had some stock piled (i know i did) the "average" player gets boned... this hardly seems fair. it would be one thing if 500 emblems unlocked it for the account, but 500 emblems for one ship, or equipment or what not, and its bound to that one character, that is steep, and un realistic for anyone who is an average player... i pay my monthly subscript, and yes, i am single, and i do have time to play, but not every day, and certainly not for hour past hour past hour... i find myself making a choice, do dailys, or join in on an stf, or what not... u guys are punishing us so that maybe instead of taking a vacation with a family, or go out to dinner with friends, well purchase the item instead of waiting for 3, 4, or more months to accumulate that many emblems... 200 was fair, especially for a per character unlock. 500 for a per character unlock is a rip off... its a waste of time, energy, and emblems... remember, we need emblems for equipment as well....
as far as the other guy stating that 500 emblems = 1 months accumulation, i bet not even a quarter of the pop. plays every single day, and accumulates the top amount of emblems a day... these are all figures cryptic looked at, and rubbed their hands together as they said, "this should make them want to buy cryptic points to get one of those items"... disgusting if you ask me.... how about this cryptic, bring the gd game up to where it should have been at launch, and give us end game content that isnt over a year old.
and as far as having items that are hard to get, make it interesting to get... saving emblems feels so hollow, i used to like going on insane quest lines to get something, or having it drop, that makes them more special to me, a rare drop.... further more its interesting how atari/ cryptic suites like to bend their clients over in harsh economic times.... and take a price that everyone pretty much unanimously agreed was a good price (ie, 200 emblems) and up it to try to force players to purchase it....
Somthing has come up a few times in this thread that needs to be addressed.
The c-store ships are either fluff and can rightly be put in the store or they are endgame awesome that should be analogous to raiding armor in other mmo. It cant be both.
If they are fluff that isnt such a big deal then they cost too many emblems.
If they are endgame awesome then they are underpowered and not worth the time investment. Also cryptic broke thier promise to not put gameplay effecting items in the store.
Im sorry stormie but your damned if you do, damned if you dont on this topic.
Because of this rift i will never be happy with ships in the store at all.
Picking up 10 emblems a day doesn't take a lot of time, and you can get way more than 10 if you want to push it, and 50 days played doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
I also see people worry about needing emblems for gear, but most gear is craftable as well, and I didn't find it hard to grind up my crafting after the change.
If you don't want to commit that much in game time to getting the item, you always have the C-Store option.
If you don't want to do either, well, sadly life is about choices and you can't have everything you want.
So, 500/15 is 33 days of striaght emblem grinding.
How long does it take to get those emblems on average?
4-5 Hours of playing.
So that equates to 132 - 165 hrs of gameplay....
How reasonable does that sound now??? Either lower emblem costs on things or don't be so conservative with how many and what missions give emblems. Really, subsequent explorations missions in B'Tran (you must run a series of three) only give one emblem.
The whole emblem grind is probably the worst you have put into game and as a more casual player (1-2hrs a night) it really turns me off to the game. It did at the start and it still does.
Now let's put this into perspective in terms of what my time is worth. I make a decent amount of money that if I spent working instead of grinding emblems be three - four weeks of work. I can buy the tokens for $12.50.
Not only is 500 emblems not a fair price, doing the math it is just a ploy for you to just cough up the $12.50 if you are a casual gamer and you want the ship.
Bravo to your marketing team but for everyone out there, if something in a game costs you more time to grind than it does for a typical 40 hours work week it is not worth it.
Comments
well here we have it, the biggest apologist in the game as of now. (there has been worse). guy, ships are needed to do anything in the game. ships should be released in the game and maybe new skins (like when the game launched) would be fine in the c store... if there was no c store, u know as well as i, that cryptic would set the price at somewhere between 100 emblems and a 150 emblems...
this games primary audience is the casual player. when you take on something like the star trek franchise, more than half of the fans are somewhere between 28-and 60 something, maybe even older. they marketed this game to that genre, and unfortunatly for you who seems to like to torture youruself, most people of that age have work, and familys. as ive stated to you b4, not all of us are basement virgins who do nothing but sit on the internet all day every day.
its not like demanding frostmourne, frostmourne is a piece of equipment, so if you take your argument, we should have rarer "loot" drops and craftable that would equal out to about the same... remember its not about the ship, but more about the equipoment you put on that ship, and i for one feel that getting the borg set and the aegis set is way too easy, those are the things that you shold have to grind for, and that would make it possible for someone who is a "casual" player to at least be able to play their favorite ship, maybe they wont have uber weapons or shields or other equipment, but they could be the excelsior, or the defient, or what not, and still be able to enjoy content.... emblems should not be for ships, they should be for equipment... u are dead wrong about the ship being a peice of equipoment, as you cannot play the game without a ship... the ship is ur character in space and that is not up for debate. no ship, no star trek, cause you couldnt do any mission without it....
Well, therein lies the confusion. If you consider 'game-changing' solely to be a 'significant mechanical advantage', then yes, you have a point (although the case could be made that ships such as the Excelsior or the new Prometheus have /just/ such an advantage, since none of the easily-available ships have BO layouts that permit a Commander and a Lt. Commander of a different speciality).
However, I think 'game-changing' is just as validly interpreted as 'changing the nature of the game' - these ships /play/ differently. They are - essentially - a new 'class'. They are new 'content' and they are very much part of the game. And we are being charged excessively for them.
You can either pay around $15 in the C-Store and get the ship immediately or you can spend about 1 months time (which it just so happens is a $15 sub fee) to earn the Emblems in game.
If you want the 500 Emblem price reduced, then the C-Store price needs to be reduced to match.
try thinking of game changing two ways, yes mechanically, these ships can give you an advantage, ie, the nebula can detect cloaked ships, they give you a boff layout that in some cases might give you an advantage, depending on the player and the build. also, some of them give unique options as well, as far as buffs, and turning radious, or the ability to have a universal boff slot... these are all things that i see as game changing.. think of it as having a little extra horsepower in a drag race, or having the more acurate gun in a shooting contest...
also, game changing can mean something different for people. i myself might only be able to afford to pay the monthly subscript, (which i do purchase off the c store, so this isnt about me, but a scenario) and cant afford to purchase c store items... you work all day, come home to a wife and a few kids, and you only have a few hourus to play a night... now say i grew up loving the ambassoder class. it gets released to the c store, and i cant afford to buy it, and i dont have the time to grind emblems, it would take someone who can only play 3 nights a week well over 6 months to a year to get enouph emblems to purchase it... so now cryptic is telling this person that they cannot play the ship they love dearly... this would cause some people to quit the game (out of frustration). 200 emblems is still steep, but not so impossible... what i think happened was cryptic set the price, and since no one had anything to do for so long, they stock piled them, and no one has been spending money on the c store for these ships, so instead of looking at it as "wow, we screwed up by not having content, and not having anouph things to spend emblems on" they said, "well TRIBBLE, we need to up the emblem cost to make sure this doesnt happend again....
i mean put mk12 stuff in the game and emblems will get spent, cryptic/atari needs to stop being lazy and just get it done.... there was a thousand other ways to get around the emblem problem, but they took the easiest and the one that took the least work....
ill say again, how are they ever going to be able to create the first expansion when they cant even keep up the the promises they are not keeping in the now...
Sir on what moon are you born! so by your definition extra resist or extra damage is not "game changing"? or the extra Xp boost do not change the game? what about the ships Galaxy x with now extra weapon slot or the excelcior with transwarp do not change the game?!
what about your statement "Game changing and change the game" is not the same ?! dude your on drugs right?
and if you want to go technical things you buy from the c-store are cheaper then wen you grind for it !! takes lots of time to get the emblems and in the long run you payed more for it (ok ok there is a small amount in there to get access to the game ok your right about that) but time you spent on farming is no time having fun or doing stf's or pvp.
ehm can i ask you one more thing, does your mom or dad pay for your game and c-store items or maybe your rich and don't know the value of money?! not judging but if of this is true then i understand you.
this will be the last reply i'll make about this before the rage goes to far "if it is not already gone to far".
i'll be the smarter one and i will just shut my pie-hole from now.
ah thanks rest my case so there is no way to get the nebula or excelsior or even the galaxy x true free tokens ... "not complaining about this just checking" btw i have all of them, oh wait the galaxy x i don't have "yet".
ummm, the emblem price went up, without the price in the c store changing, so i dont see how your argument holds water... if i was to buy everything that they are going to release in the c store, this is what it equals, a months worth of gas, a months worth of food, the insurance cost of my car, more than i would have spent on wow in two years.
this game is a very expensive game and its not even complete.
But, it really doesn't matter in the end because Cryptic decided that rather than have to deal with this argument at all they just made everything (except the Galaxy-X for good reasons) available through in game methods. Doesn't stop people who just like complaining about everything though. Go figure.
arguments and discussing the hot topics are what leads to change... are you saying, that you wouldnt be happy if they dropped the emblem cost back to what it was, or even stopped putting game changing content in the c store... u people who are trying to defend the c store seem to like to spend money. i mean when you go to get a cup of coffee, do you ask if they can charge you xtra just for s and giggles. does it make you guys feel bigger that you pay xtra for things....
we are not complaining, but mearly voicing our concearns.. this is a buiseness, we are the consumers.. if the only people who were in the game were people like you, there would be maybe a couple of hundred people in the game... alot, and i mean alot of people are very unhappy with this game.. for every 1 person i see who defends the game and its wallet crushing ways, there are ten people aposing it....
im not trying to personally attack you, just using you as the esample. its crazy to me that anyone would go against anyone trying to change the game for the better. if i were someone who didnt mind the current pricing, id sit back and see what happens, cause i wouldnt mind if pricing came down... you cryptic "fan boys" make my head hurt....
With this post, I'd say you already gave up on the real argument by resorting to whatever this was. I would just say that I support myself and I'm not rich (although I'm not sure when that became a bad thing), but are we to assume that you are poor? And if that's the case it's too bad, but it's hardly a fair reason that Cryptic should lower the price of items they have spent considerable time developing.
I assure you I /don't/ like complaining, but my opinion has changed on seeing the way Cryptic have operated the C-store and their business. At first I was all for it, then I was 'meh', but the addition of the MVAM Prometheus is the final straw.
I've addressed 'available in game' numerous times, and I can only ask again: When does the emblem cost become so unreasonable to you that it no longer qualifies as 'available in game'? 1000 emblems? 10000? Would you say a cost of a million emblems still satisfied the letter of 'available in game' and be happy with that?
500 is already /well/ past the point of acceptability for me given the nature of the rewards.
The problem is your premise is flawed. You assume that these items with be added to the game regardless. There is no basis for that assumption. If they can't charge what they are, they may just not add them. I assume they are smart and are charging a price at which they maximize their revenue. Why would they do anything else.
Now I assume that when they say that the only way they can justify the time for these special player requested items is by putting the in the C-Store, i believe them because I have no reason not to. I further believe that it's possible that without them being able to do, they would very like not add these items to the game, or at least not as soon.
And, so while you may be right, I see no reason to take that risk for a lowering of an already insignificant price. So as I see it you are trying to harm the game by complaining against something that is good...more and more items in the C-Store at whatever price Cryptic feels is necessary to put them in. So please stop.
hehe ok i said i was not gonna reply anymore guess i was wrong my self!
No i'm not poor (have almost all c-store items) and if you happen to be rich that is not a bad thing, it is just that i can understand that you don't have a real value of money sense!
i do apologize if i offended you in any way "was not my intent and wen i'm in fury i go crazy hence my reply before" sorry.
and developing time that cryptic put in is part payed by the monthly fee won't you say? probably not but that aside. i don't ask that the prize of c-store items goes down, just the emblems you have to remember one major thing C-store items is for all your chars on the account, emblem item is for that char only ... get it now, see why we are .. complaining?
this is star trek online, of course iconic ships are going to be put in the game. as d stahl has said, the c store mearly made them come a little faster... i could do without open jackets and tos stuff. u thinking that they would not put iconic things in the game is flawed... they said a billion times when they were first talking about the game and promoting it that this game was going to be as closest star trek game to canon, and that all the iconic things would be in it. and blah blah blah blah... so you stop sir and smell the coffee...
I've no doubt they did, but I reiterate: I don't believe for a flat second they spent enough time to justify a $15 price tag. Entire games that involve dozens of people working for a year or more retail for a mere three times that amount.
I don't think anyone here is asking for anything for free: We're already paying Cryptic to provide us with a game to play, and I think the complaints would be a lot less justified if the cost for these additions was /not/ so outrageous... but ultimately it /is/ extortionate, and there's a good /many/ reasons why a company might not want to extort their customers regardless of how much money it makes them, ranging from maintaining goodwill to just good old ethical business practice.
So ultimately, yes, you're right, Cryptic are free to charge what they like and seek out money in any way possible. Likewise, as customers, we're allowed to come here and voice our disgust at being fleeced, and inform Cryptic that these practices are harming their image as a company in our eyes and making us far, far less likely to want to support them in future.
Yes, Emblem cost was changed to roughly equate to a months subscription fee (eg. around 30 days to farm 500 emblems). If they were to lower the Emblem cost now, they would need to lower the C-Store price. That is how it "holds water" and this is why it is not going to happen.
^ This
I don't mind buying ships from the C-Store. I spend more on beer in a week.
I'm sorry, I must have missed when they increased the Emblem price required to purchase ANY ship.
If you're referring to the Nebula, its Marks of Exploration, and it was needed because it was literally the ONLY one that had a different price - despite it costing exactly the same via the Cstore.
But aside from that, all the ships available for emblems have always been 500. No change there.
You can get 18+ Emblems daily (more if KDF).
Daily PvP : 3 emblems
Daily FA : 3 Emblems
Daily Exploration (B'tran 3+1) : 4 emblems
Daily Deferi : 5 Emblems
Daily Devidian : 3 Emblems (+3 every 5 days or so)
500 / 18 and you end up at 28 days
I pay 138.50 DKr (equal to about 26 USD) for 2000 CPoints (Atari Tokens)
How much playtime do you get for that kinda money? Around 2 months worth I suppose (to lazy to check), which means you can skip half of the dailies and still break even with someone that pay for it..
And its not like the dailies take a loooooong time to do
If you can do all that - 18 emblerms - in less than 2 hours you're a better person than I. Probably longer.
So the /best case scenario/ is an entire month, every day, for 2 hours a day. That's not fun, that's /work/. And that assumes you're capable of that: If you break that up so it ceases being such a chore, you're looking at 3 months or more.
Not. Reasonable.
Working for something you want (& don't need at all). There's a foreign concept.
Keep the 500 but increase the amount of Emblerms you per mission or add them to more missions at VA level.
just to add, i've spent a fair bit on the C-Store, from the open Jackets to the Nebula Class and the Delta fly and a few bridge packs and 4 charcter slots.
I've played quite a few MMOs in my day, and having a wait for an end game level item is nothing new to the MMO world.
There is a long standing tradition in fact of having hard to earn items available in MMOs. One might even say it's an MMO Trope.
I've spent weeks searching for hard to find items in old games like GemStone or Dragon Realms. I literally spent months camping this really old cyclops in an early MMO so I could take something only he would drop, and trade it in for a pair of boots that would let me run fast. I've also spent inordinately large amounts of time going on raids so I could get the best gear available for my class, just to have someone who showed up for the raid the first time ever win the roll for an item I still needed.
I like the way things are done here better. Pick a reward, and start saving up for it. No random factor required, you get the required amount of funds, and you can now earn the item you wish to have the most. Plus, if you really have to have an item right now, you have the option of the C-store available to you.
MMOs are always going to have something else to achieve, some new piece of gear you desperately require, or some sort of new challenge to face. The C-store simply allows you to trade time for money, when working to acquire these things. Money which then goes back into the game so we can continue to make Star Trek Online better for you.
I'll continue to believe that one month worth of play time spent gathering emblems is a fair trade when I compare it to my own experiences raiding, and grinding, in other MMOs, to earn similar rewards. I'd much rather know when I'm going to get the item I need than to spend another few months sitting on an island in the middle of an empty zone waiting for one particular mob to show up.
Really, the point of all this is... If you think about the alternatives, this is really much better.
Thanks,
Stormshade
To support the statements above, see Jedi and Mandalorian armor in SWG(pre NGE of course).
I was just going to say that but you beat ms to it. I also remember a certain Wild Boar on a certain desert planet that I camped for, for hours only to have some noob come along and get the first shot in, there by gettting the rare drop. Needless to say, I was not happy. I much prefer Cryptic way.
storm, i think your missing some of the argument, not all of us are people who live and breathe by our computers, not all of us have an opurtunity to play every day, and not all of us have an opurtunity to get every daily done and play the content we want to play in the amount of time we are given by wives, families, work, other real life issues.. the point here is that 200 emblems for the "average" player was well over a month worth of accumulating, and now because some people had some stock piled (i know i did) the "average" player gets boned... this hardly seems fair. it would be one thing if 500 emblems unlocked it for the account, but 500 emblems for one ship, or equipment or what not, and its bound to that one character, that is steep, and un realistic for anyone who is an average player... i pay my monthly subscript, and yes, i am single, and i do have time to play, but not every day, and certainly not for hour past hour past hour... i find myself making a choice, do dailys, or join in on an stf, or what not... u guys are punishing us so that maybe instead of taking a vacation with a family, or go out to dinner with friends, well purchase the item instead of waiting for 3, 4, or more months to accumulate that many emblems... 200 was fair, especially for a per character unlock. 500 for a per character unlock is a rip off... its a waste of time, energy, and emblems... remember, we need emblems for equipment as well....
as far as the other guy stating that 500 emblems = 1 months accumulation, i bet not even a quarter of the pop. plays every single day, and accumulates the top amount of emblems a day... these are all figures cryptic looked at, and rubbed their hands together as they said, "this should make them want to buy cryptic points to get one of those items"... disgusting if you ask me.... how about this cryptic, bring the gd game up to where it should have been at launch, and give us end game content that isnt over a year old.
and as far as having items that are hard to get, make it interesting to get... saving emblems feels so hollow, i used to like going on insane quest lines to get something, or having it drop, that makes them more special to me, a rare drop.... further more its interesting how atari/ cryptic suites like to bend their clients over in harsh economic times.... and take a price that everyone pretty much unanimously agreed was a good price (ie, 200 emblems) and up it to try to force players to purchase it....
The c-store ships are either fluff and can rightly be put in the store or they are endgame awesome that should be analogous to raiding armor in other mmo. It cant be both.
If they are fluff that isnt such a big deal then they cost too many emblems.
If they are endgame awesome then they are underpowered and not worth the time investment. Also cryptic broke thier promise to not put gameplay effecting items in the store.
Im sorry stormie but your damned if you do, damned if you dont on this topic.
Because of this rift i will never be happy with ships in the store at all.
I still play Gemstone sometimes
Seems a lot of people have at some point, which is interesting.
I also see people worry about needing emblems for gear, but most gear is craftable as well, and I didn't find it hard to grind up my crafting after the change.
If you don't want to commit that much in game time to getting the item, you always have the C-Store option.
If you don't want to do either, well, sadly life is about choices and you can't have everything you want.
So, 500/15 is 33 days of striaght emblem grinding.
How long does it take to get those emblems on average?
4-5 Hours of playing.
So that equates to 132 - 165 hrs of gameplay....
How reasonable does that sound now??? Either lower emblem costs on things or don't be so conservative with how many and what missions give emblems. Really, subsequent explorations missions in B'Tran (you must run a series of three) only give one emblem.
The whole emblem grind is probably the worst you have put into game and as a more casual player (1-2hrs a night) it really turns me off to the game. It did at the start and it still does.
Now let's put this into perspective in terms of what my time is worth. I make a decent amount of money that if I spent working instead of grinding emblems be three - four weeks of work. I can buy the tokens for $12.50.
Not only is 500 emblems not a fair price, doing the math it is just a ploy for you to just cough up the $12.50 if you are a casual gamer and you want the ship.
Bravo to your marketing team but for everyone out there, if something in a game costs you more time to grind than it does for a typical 40 hours work week it is not worth it.
Wrong assertion, you only have the C-Store option. That is the only mildly reasonable option. With the current award rate of emblems, 500 is absurd.