Folks, 500 emblems is really a pretty fair deal. If you don't want to spend the time to earn the emblems, you have the option to buy the item from the C-Store.
I've played quite a few MMOs in my day, and having a wait for an end game level item is nothing new to the MMO world.
There is a long standing tradition in fact of having hard to earn items available in MMOs. One might even say it's an MMO Trope.
I've spent weeks searching for hard to find items in old games like GemStone or Dragon Realms. I literally spent months camping this really old cyclops in an early MMO so I could take something only he would drop, and trade it in for a pair of boots that would let me run fast. I've also spent inordinately large amounts of time going on raids so I could get the best gear available for my class, just to have someone who showed up for the raid the first time ever win the roll for an item I still needed.
I like the way things are done here better. Pick a reward, and start saving up for it. No random factor required, you get the required amount of funds, and you can now earn the item you wish to have the most. Plus, if you really have to have an item right now, you have the option of the C-store available to you.
MMOs are always going to have something else to achieve, some new piece of gear you desperately require, or some sort of new challenge to face. The C-store simply allows you to trade time for money, when working to acquire these things. Money which then goes back into the game so we can continue to make Star Trek Online better for you.
I'll continue to believe that one month worth of play time spent gathering emblems is a fair trade when I compare it to my own experiences raiding, and grinding, in other MMOs, to earn similar rewards. I'd much rather know when I'm going to get the item I need than to spend another few months sitting on an island in the middle of an empty zone waiting for one particular mob to show up.
Really, the point of all this is... If you think about the alternatives, this is really much better.
Thanks,
Stormshade
The problem with this whole response is that it doesn't fit STO in the least. STO has no endgame to speak of, outside of the grind for emblems. Star Trek is an IP that doesn't fit the normal MMO thought process, and you guys can't decide if you want to go more towards "classic" MMO playability or away from it. Combine that with the fact that there is no endgame to speak of, and all you are doing is making the point that this excuse is half-hearted at best.
Also, the argument isn't about the Emblem cost in and of itself. It's that paying you guys real money for fake items is actually a sweeter deal. Now, you mention raiding and grinding in other MMO's for similar gear. What if they made that SAME gear available via a store purchase with real money across the whole account? You expect us to believe that wouldn't be greedy by developers? THAT is the argument.
I work a full time job and have a wife at home, yet I can find the time to crank out at least 10 Emblems in a day.
If you can only devote 1 hour a week to playtime, then you should not be expecting to earn the 500 Emblems anytime soon. You are being unrealistic if you want to devote an hour or two playing to earn a $25 ship.
Look, it is a matter of balance and diversity. IMHO I don't even care for the new escort I am perfectly happy in my assault cruiser and have been. It is a matter of principle and gaiting. Fine you can crank out 10 emblems a night, I can do that as well and in 50 days we will have our ship but the scary potential here with the C-Store ships offering end-game options is we will eventually be gaited. IF you do not see that there will be more to come and more end-game gear like this that is the "must have" then I am sorry.
I play the game solo, don't really care for many of the C-store ships so I honestly don't care about the emblem grind, heck I am only slowly aquiring emblems to get my BOFFs weapons and I do that slowly.
My position is for all those people who are just like us, that have a limited amount of time and want to enjoy the game. For that, I am not even argueing that 500 is too much, I am argueing that the current award rate of emblems is too limited. Only to a few missions and mostly one per mission. How does Trallus warrant only one emblem compared to the Breen one where you bribe the crew? There is not even a valid time comparison between the missions. Trallus is at least 3 times longer than that Breen one.
The award rate of emblems needs to be diversified and better balanced. If I like PvP I should be able to get 10 emblems a day doing that in a reasonable amout of time, if I like exploration the same, if I like PvE space the same, or even PvE ground. There is no balance in the type of gameplay not the duration and difficulty of a mission with emblem reward rate. It is semi-arbitrary. That is the root of the problem and will continue to be every single time a new item is introduced into the C-Store with an in game emblem requirement.
I honestly loathe to think what the new currency will be when we a reach Fleet Admiral, how long it will take to aquire those and how much gear will cost with them. If that is not balanced appropriately with the casual and power gamers, you will see the casual gamers start dropping.
I run advanced on everything sometimes elite for the higher end drops (which really need balancing themselves it sucks to run 8 deferi patrols and get a handful of batteries, commodities and one uncommon console.
But more to the point. You did not answer my question. Elite attitudes only go so far if you can back them up. Otherwise you are just talking otu of your....
Look, it is a matter of balance and diversity. IMHO I don't even care for the new escort I am perfectly happy in my assault cruiser and have been. It is a matter of principle and gaiting. Fine you can crank out 10 emblems a night, I can do that as well and in 50 days we will have our ship but the scary potential here with the C-Store ships offering end-game options is we will eventually be gaited. IF you do not see that there will be more to come and more end-game gear like this that is the "must have" then I am sorry.
I play the game solo, don't really care for many of the C-store ships so I honestly don't care about the emblem grind, heck I am only slowly aquiring emblems to get my BOFFs weapons and I do that slowly.
My position is for all those people who are just like us, that have a limited amount of time and want to enjoy the game. For that, I am not even argueing that 500 is too much, I am argueing that the current award rate of emblems is too limited. Only to a few missions and mostly one per mission. How does Trallus warrant only one emblem compared to the Breen one where you bribe the crew? There is not even a valid time comparison between the missions. Trallus is at least 3 times longer than that Breen one.
The award rate of emblems needs to be diversified and better balanced. If I like PvP I should be able to get 10 emblems a day doing that in a reasonable amout of time, if I like exploration the same, if I like PvE space the same, or even PvE ground. There is no balance in the type of gameplay not the duration and difficulty of a mission with emblem reward rate. It is semi-arbitrary. That is the root of the problem and will continue to be every single time a new item is introduced into the C-Store with an in game emblem requirement.
I honestly loathe to think what the new currency will be when we a reach Fleet Admiral, how long it will take to aquire those and how much gear will cost with them. If that is not balanced appropriately with the casual and power gamers, you will see the casual gamers start dropping.
They're already dropping. Lost 2 friends this week to a new mmo, they canceled STO and both said they won't be back. Both quoted pretty much the same reasons... End Game and the C-store.
The award rate of emblems needs to be diversified and better balanced.
There is a rather huge difference between asking for more content to award Emblems than asking for the Emblem cost to be reduced.
I do not think you would find much objection to the request for adding more missions/replays to offer Emblems as a reward. Personally, I agree with you that it would be great to offer more "variety".
I also agree with those who have mentioned that the 500 Emblems should unlock the ship/whatever accountwide, no just the individual character.
Right, I'm not standing against the C-store. I see its need and its value to players, the game and Cryptic.
I'm happy to see that some C-store items are made available in game. It is a shame that not all items are made available in game. There are going to be younger players (say 15 or younger - who cannot legally work - in England at least -) who will want an item but have no means of getting it. But still at least there alternate options to acquire certain items without having to sepnd hard earned cash.
However
500 Emblems is steep and expensive in terms of cost of time spent completing missions to earn 500 emplems. Even then you have to grind more emblems, marks etc to kit the ship out in weapons and consoles. The process is arduous and painful and while there is the alternate option of simply paying for it with cash, it is unethical that the 'paying for it' should be so much more appealing than playing the game and earning 500 emblems.
In fact I don't think I have collected 500 emblems. I know for a fact that I've never accumilateed 500 emblems in one go.
And again while I see the need for the C-store and I don't feel that purchasing with emblems should be as easy or as instanenous as paying with cash. I feel needing to collect 500 emblems really isn't an option for most, IMO.
Personally my suggestion would be to either lower the cost of emblem/mark related items or increase the opportunities or the number of emblems/marks awarded form completing missions to make it a realistic and viable option.
I respectfully dissagree. IMHO it was a big move on their part to even make these items available via in game play at all. It is a clear cut means for Cryptic to earn cash. Do they need it ?? IMHO that is a matter of opinion. Most of the folks who work for Atarii are just every day folks like us. Someone near or at the top of the food chain decided to make this move ( the "C" Store). IMHO we should not scream at those who are trying their best to get us a better product.
Also: for what ever it is worth I'm one of those who find my self an average of 55 hours a week at work. I'm not complaining. Frankly I'm very thankful to have a job that pays well enough to keep my home and other expenses of life paid for. To some degree the "C" store might be of benefit. It is a good short cut. Rather then spend a lot of time on grinding I could simply caugh up the cash and be done with it. However, I don't CHOOSE to do that. It's my CHOICE. Since this is my CHOICE, I'm not going to blow a gasket over the fact that we now can "grind" these items out. It would be nice to make it easier to find the patterns for or better instructions these items. Hmmm ... I wonder if Scottie has any offspring at any of the stations to assist in training new engineers or craftsmen?
There is one thing I would like to request: for those items that are either "built" (crafted) , purchased via "grinding" or pruchased via "C" store it might be a suggestion to have some PHYSICAL difference as an option for these ships. Why? Frankly someone who has taken the time to grind 500 points should have somnething that stands out ... sort of a merit badge.
Investing time into the game is much like anything else. And, frankly, folks like to see a little recognition as a result of their labor!
There is a rather huge difference between asking for more content to award Emblems than asking for the Emblem cost to be reduced.
I do not think you would find much objection to the request for adding more missions/replays to offer Emblems as a reward. Personally, I agree with you that it would be great to offer more "variety".
I also agree with those who have mentioned that the 500 Emblems should unlock the ship/whatever accountwide, no just the individual character.
I think if you see better diversification and balance the issue will go away. Why?
Because people know they will be able to X amount of time on content they prefer to do and be rewarded at a resonable rate.
Let's say on Monday I want to spend three hours exploring (we won't get into what is wrong with exploration) and I get 15 emblems. Then on Tuesday I want to run dalies and spend three hours on those and get awarded 15 emblems. On Saturday I have all the time in the world and can sink 10 hrs of gameplay in on a variety of things and know I will come out with 50 emblems.
No mater how you cut it, it is still 100 hrs for 500 emblems, but I know I have a constant rate and a diversity of options in game to switch to if I get bored with one thing.
The number are just an example before people get their hackles up. The big problem with emblems is they are doubly penalized, via in game play time (by the player) and by the amount per day (by the devs). If if you do have all the time to play you are still limited by the amount you can do (which is why on one day I will get all the missions, then on the second day I will run them, then take and run them again ).
There is one thing I would like to request: for those items that are either "built" (crafted)
I am not sure they would allow this. It would make it too easy for those with millions of EC lying around to buy Data Samples on the Exchange and build the ship for little to no effort.
I run advanced on everything sometimes elite for the higher end drops (which really need balancing themselves it sucks to run 8 deferi patrols and get a handful of batteries, commodities and one uncommon console.
But more to the point. You did not answer my question. Elite attitudes only go so far if you can back them up. Otherwise you are just talking otu of your....
Ok maybe this has been mentioned, but this post got me thinking. Why not up the amount of Emblems based on mission difficulty. Normal = a normal payout, Advanced = x1.5, Elite = x2 ? Or something to that effect.
Folks, 500 emblems is really a pretty fair deal. If you don't want to spend the time to earn the emblems, you have the option to buy the item from the C-Store.
I've played quite a few MMOs in my day, and having a wait for an end game level item is nothing new to the MMO world.
There is a long standing tradition in fact of having hard to earn items available in MMOs. One might even say it's an MMO Trope.
I've spent weeks searching for hard to find items in old games like GemStone or Dragon Realms. I literally spent months camping this really old cyclops in an early MMO so I could take something only he would drop, and trade it in for a pair of boots that would let me run fast. I've also spent inordinately large amounts of time going on raids so I could get the best gear available for my class, just to have someone who showed up for the raid the first time ever win the roll for an item I still needed.
I like the way things are done here better. Pick a reward, and start saving up for it. No random factor required, you get the required amount of funds, and you can now earn the item you wish to have the most. Plus, if you really have to have an item right now, you have the option of the C-store available to you.
MMOs are always going to have something else to achieve, some new piece of gear you desperately require, or some sort of new challenge to face. The C-store simply allows you to trade time for money, when working to acquire these things. Money which then goes back into the game so we can continue to make Star Trek Online better for you.
I'll continue to believe that one month worth of play time spent gathering emblems is a fair trade when I compare it to my own experiences raiding, and grinding, in other MMOs, to earn similar rewards. I'd much rather know when I'm going to get the item I need than to spend another few months sitting on an island in the middle of an empty zone waiting for one particular mob to show up.
Really, the point of all this is... If you think about the alternatives, this is really much better.
Thanks,
Stormshade
I whole heartedly support this statement. I DO, however, make one small request. For those items we grind or craft .. make some change in the style, design, or other physical appearance to reflect the investment of time. This change is in NO way to EVER be a gaming "advantage" ... only in physical appearance.
This I just don't get. (Nothing personal). Dailies are the definition of boring to me. Doing the same handful of missions day in and day out for the scraps a game maker throws you just is not fun for me. Or was that the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
I usually quit a game shortly after I hit the level cap for just this reason, lack of anything to do at max level except raid (and the stf's here are broken), PvP (I'd like a war please, not dueling in an Arena. I expected more from a Trek game than pvp in a box. If I want arena duels I'll play WoW.) and dailies and I just really hate dailies, hate the whole concept. I'm so sick of the Deferi missions that I'm rooting for the Breen at this point.
What do you do as Vice Admiral. Your options are:
- Exploration. That got a Daily.
- PvP. That got a Daiy.
- Doing the Dailies in Orrelius, Eta Eridani or Pi Canis (if you're Klingon).
- Doing the STFs. (those are Dailies)
- Replaying an old mission. That's the only thing that does not award Emblems.
So that's pretty much it. That's what you can do once you reach endgame. And nothing of that does not include doing repetitive stuff.
No matter what you do, when you are Vice Admiral and finally have the ability to gain Emblems, you can't escape repetition. You can barely escape making Emblems either.
Only if you just roleplay - e.g. do not complete missions - you cannot earn Emblems. B
So the moment you do any kind of mix of - still repeatable - activities, you earn Emblems. Yes, if you don't dedicate yourself to earning Emblems, you might need more then a month to earn 500 Emblems.
But no matter what you do - you'll get into repetition.
You expect us to believe that wouldn't be greedy by developers? THAT is the argument.
1) Corporations cannot, by definition, be greedy. Or generous. They are not human beings. They are an entity that exists only in law, with only one purpose, to generate profits for their shareholders. That is why 'Atari' exists. It exists as a series of legal filings that allows it to sell a product, with the sole purpose of generating revenue. There are good and bad companies. Good companies generate a lot of profit for their shareholders. Bad companies lose money. An individual shareholder can be greedy or generous, but I have no idea who all of the Atari shareholders are, let alone anything about their personal morality.
2) You have a third option. Roll an alt, level him up, get the other ship. A bit of a grind? Sure. Compared to 500 Emblems? Not so bad.
3) This 'account-wide' thing is a red herring. Why on earth would you want all, or even more than one, of your toons to be flying the exact same ship? The best thing about this game is the customization.
I am not sure they would allow this. It would make it too easy for those with millions of EC lying around to buy Data Samples on the Exchange and build the ship for little to no effort.
crafted items are "different" than others .. This is not to be confused with items that are available for emblems. Each are different .. each would also be different in appearance. It is in no way intended to devalue other items in the game. (I hope this makes sense).
And it never occurred to you that running on Normal will allow you to finish sooner?
why would you wnat to finish "sooner" IF THE player is looking for better drops. Frankly much of the "drops" leave something to be desired. It's so bad that I rarely rely on them to build ANY ship or toon.
3) This 'account-wide' thing is a red herring. Why on earth would you want all, or even more than one, of your toons to be flying the exact same ship? The best thing about this game is the customization.
Customization allows us to switch ships as well. Some people do have several alts that they may want to try in different ships. Suppose you have 2 characters you would like to try piloting an Excelsior Refit? That player would need to farm twice as much for the same thing.
Asking a person to earn 500 Emblems per character is punitive.
Customization allows us to switch ships as well. Some people do have several alts that they may want to try in different ships. Suppose you have 2 characters you would like to try piloting an Excelsior Refit? That player would need to farm twice as much for the same thing.
Tribble. Copy your character over, buy the ship. Copy him again, buy the other ship. We have a (nearly) constantly available test-server that we can use for experiments like that. Its one of the benefits.
why would you wnat to finish "sooner" IF THE player is looking for better drops. Frankly much of the "drops" leave something to be desired. It's so bad that I rarely rely on them to build ANY ship or toon.
The discussion was leaning toward "how much time does it take" to earn X amount of Emblems. Strictly speaking of Emblems over time (with Emblems being your only goal), you will earn Emblems faster running on Normal mode.
- Exploration. That got a Daily.
- PvP. That got a Daiy.
- Doing the Dailies in Orrelius, Eta Eridani or Pi Canis (if you're Klingon).
- Doing the STFs. (those are Dailies)
- Replaying an old mission. That's the only thing that does not award Emblems.
So that's pretty much it. That's what you can do once you reach endgame. And nothing of that does not include doing repetitive stuff.
No matter what you do, when you are Vice Admiral and finally have the ability to gain Emblems, you can't escape repetition. You can barely escape making Emblems either.
Only if you just roleplay - e.g. do not complete missions - you cannot earn Emblems. B
So the moment you do any kind of mix of - still repeatable - activities, you earn Emblems. Yes, if you don't dedicate yourself to earning Emblems, you might need more then a month to earn 500 Emblems.
But no matter what you do - you'll get into repetition.
What do I do? Personally? I go get my new ship, craft some new components for it.... and start a new character. (Yeah I know, stupid to waste time crafting stuff for a ship and captain that will rarely get used.) I've leveled 7 characters to the cap, 5 feds and 2 klinks, so for me at this point even the leveling content is getting repetitive.
Tribble. Copy your character over, buy the ship. Copy him again, buy the other ship. We have a (nearly) constantly available test-server that we can use for experiments like that. Its one of the benefits.
How does that help the player who wants to have more than 1 ship per character?
The discussion was leaning toward "how much time does it take" to earn X amount of Emblems. Strictly speaking of Emblems over time (with Emblems being your only goal), you will earn Emblems faster running on Normal mode.
agreed... I would focus on grinding .. what ever drops come along use them to buy consumables... etc (maybe a nice Bat' leth) ..
if ya want the good stuff, sooner or later a player will be doing some grinding (it's just that simple).
The discussion was leaning toward "how much time does it take" to earn X amount of Emblems. Strictly speaking of Emblems over time (with Emblems being your only goal), you will earn Emblems faster running on Normal mode.
Well the overarching issue that this thread can be boiled down to is "Lack of end game diversity".
I think this can be said of many threads on these forums and we are now over a year since launch and we still really have no end game, nor have I even seen anything that remotely addresses end game playability or diversity.
This is what will mostly likely happen given the behavior of people considering we have both power and casual gamers in STO.
Lack of end game content and diversity - Power gamers will simply get bored and unsub.
Lack of diversity in "grindy" content - Casual gamers will feel gaited or get bored and unsub.
Now don't get me wrong, Cryptic and Stahl have done a great job catching this game up to where it should have been at launch a year ago but, we need some creative, engaging, and diverse end game systems.
I realize we are not at end game yet because max level has not been released, but I am having a lack of confidence that when Fleet Admiral rolls out, this type of end game will roll out with it. The pivotal point in this game will come when Fleet Admiral is available. Right now we just wait.
How does that help the player who wants to have more than 1 ship per character?
It doesn't. That's not what you asked. You asked 'What about a person who wants to try out two different ships?" That's what I responded to. If you want another ship, you have three options:
1) C-Store
2) 500 Emblems
3) Roll an alt.
If you don't want to do 3, for whatever reason, then you have options 1 and 2.
Folks, 500 emblems is really a pretty fair deal. If you don't want to spend the time to earn the emblems, you have the option to buy the item from the C-Store.
I've played quite a few MMOs in my day, and having a wait for an end game level item is nothing new to the MMO world.
There is a long standing tradition in fact of having hard to earn items available in MMOs. One might even say it's an MMO Trope.
I've spent weeks searching for hard to find items in old games like GemStone or Dragon Realms. I literally spent months camping this really old cyclops in an early MMO so I could take something only he would drop, and trade it in for a pair of boots that would let me run fast. I've also spent inordinately large amounts of time going on raids so I could get the best gear available for my class, just to have someone who showed up for the raid the first time ever win the roll for an item I still needed.
I like the way things are done here better. Pick a reward, and start saving up for it. No random factor required, you get the required amount of funds, and you can now earn the item you wish to have the most. Plus, if you really have to have an item right now, you have the option of the C-store available to you.
MMOs are always going to have something else to achieve, some new piece of gear you desperately require, or some sort of new challenge to face. The C-store simply allows you to trade time for money, when working to acquire these things. Money which then goes back into the game so we can continue to make Star Trek Online better for you.
I'll continue to believe that one month worth of play time spent gathering emblems is a fair trade when I compare it to my own experiences raiding, and grinding, in other MMOs, to earn similar rewards. I'd much rather know when I'm going to get the item I need than to spend another few months sitting on an island in the middle of an empty zone waiting for one particular mob to show up.
Really, the point of all this is... If you think about the alternatives, this is really much better.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Dear Stormshade,
Note that some ships have third method of acquisition. The Retrofits of the Galaxy, Defiant and Intrepid are also available for the Vice Admiral Ship Requisition Plaque, while the Nebula, Excelsior, etc. are not.
Perhaps if that was an option for the other ships as well there would be less complaints?
Also, raising the Emblem price on the Nebula when some people were already able to get it for fewer Emblems was just dirty play. Some players that were only a few Emblems away found that suddenly their cup was half empty again, when it was nearly full.
C-Store sales would be easier to swallow if we actually got new ship content for free. It is unacceptable that every new ships hits the store or is up for the insane 500 emblems. Why can't we get options like for the Nebula and the excelsior? I've drawn the line. No more until we receive a free ship content update. The team should have plenty of free time now that they won't be doing an episode a week.
Can you imagine if they expect to charge us C-Store money for the upcoming Oberth and maybe the Ambassador? The only new content we are getting is via the Featured Episodes and Season updates but those do not include ships.
If you don't want to do 3, for whatever reason, then you have options 1 and 2.
Ok perhaps I could have worded it slightly better. Using this example, suppose you have 2 characters that you would like in a Defiant Refit? You have to spend twice the time to earn 1,000 Emblems then, not just 500. That is what I was saying is punitive.
Personally, I do not find it unreasonable to have the 500 Emblems unlock the desired ship accountwide.
It's all a money grab. Playing STO is a top-dollar expenditure, and one receives in exchange, a content-light experience. My monthly subscription pay's for developers to create content, which is then, only available for an additional outlay of my personal wealth.
Regardless of being viewed as a valid business practice, it lacks common decency; which is something I'd pay for.
Comments
The problem with this whole response is that it doesn't fit STO in the least. STO has no endgame to speak of, outside of the grind for emblems. Star Trek is an IP that doesn't fit the normal MMO thought process, and you guys can't decide if you want to go more towards "classic" MMO playability or away from it. Combine that with the fact that there is no endgame to speak of, and all you are doing is making the point that this excuse is half-hearted at best.
Also, the argument isn't about the Emblem cost in and of itself. It's that paying you guys real money for fake items is actually a sweeter deal. Now, you mention raiding and grinding in other MMO's for similar gear. What if they made that SAME gear available via a store purchase with real money across the whole account? You expect us to believe that wouldn't be greedy by developers? THAT is the argument.
For a high end graphic i prefer it to take a long time to get.
I really do not want to see everyone fly a excelsior retrofit..
So 500 emblems takes long but it is near the fair point.
When other stuff will start to cost 500 emblems like the MAVM etc etc i would start to get worried
Look, it is a matter of balance and diversity. IMHO I don't even care for the new escort I am perfectly happy in my assault cruiser and have been. It is a matter of principle and gaiting. Fine you can crank out 10 emblems a night, I can do that as well and in 50 days we will have our ship but the scary potential here with the C-Store ships offering end-game options is we will eventually be gaited. IF you do not see that there will be more to come and more end-game gear like this that is the "must have" then I am sorry.
I play the game solo, don't really care for many of the C-store ships so I honestly don't care about the emblem grind, heck I am only slowly aquiring emblems to get my BOFFs weapons and I do that slowly.
My position is for all those people who are just like us, that have a limited amount of time and want to enjoy the game. For that, I am not even argueing that 500 is too much, I am argueing that the current award rate of emblems is too limited. Only to a few missions and mostly one per mission. How does Trallus warrant only one emblem compared to the Breen one where you bribe the crew? There is not even a valid time comparison between the missions. Trallus is at least 3 times longer than that Breen one.
The award rate of emblems needs to be diversified and better balanced. If I like PvP I should be able to get 10 emblems a day doing that in a reasonable amout of time, if I like exploration the same, if I like PvE space the same, or even PvE ground. There is no balance in the type of gameplay not the duration and difficulty of a mission with emblem reward rate. It is semi-arbitrary. That is the root of the problem and will continue to be every single time a new item is introduced into the C-Store with an in game emblem requirement.
I honestly loathe to think what the new currency will be when we a reach Fleet Admiral, how long it will take to aquire those and how much gear will cost with them. If that is not balanced appropriately with the casual and power gamers, you will see the casual gamers start dropping.
I run advanced on everything sometimes elite for the higher end drops (which really need balancing themselves it sucks to run 8 deferi patrols and get a handful of batteries, commodities and one uncommon console.
But more to the point. You did not answer my question. Elite attitudes only go so far if you can back them up. Otherwise you are just talking otu of your....
They're already dropping. Lost 2 friends this week to a new mmo, they canceled STO and both said they won't be back. Both quoted pretty much the same reasons... End Game and the C-store.
There is a rather huge difference between asking for more content to award Emblems than asking for the Emblem cost to be reduced.
I do not think you would find much objection to the request for adding more missions/replays to offer Emblems as a reward. Personally, I agree with you that it would be great to offer more "variety".
I also agree with those who have mentioned that the 500 Emblems should unlock the ship/whatever accountwide, no just the individual character.
And it never occurred to you that running on Normal will allow you to finish sooner?
I respectfully dissagree. IMHO it was a big move on their part to even make these items available via in game play at all. It is a clear cut means for Cryptic to earn cash. Do they need it ?? IMHO that is a matter of opinion. Most of the folks who work for Atarii are just every day folks like us. Someone near or at the top of the food chain decided to make this move ( the "C" Store). IMHO we should not scream at those who are trying their best to get us a better product.
Also: for what ever it is worth I'm one of those who find my self an average of 55 hours a week at work. I'm not complaining. Frankly I'm very thankful to have a job that pays well enough to keep my home and other expenses of life paid for. To some degree the "C" store might be of benefit. It is a good short cut. Rather then spend a lot of time on grinding I could simply caugh up the cash and be done with it. However, I don't CHOOSE to do that. It's my CHOICE. Since this is my CHOICE, I'm not going to blow a gasket over the fact that we now can "grind" these items out. It would be nice to make it easier to find the patterns for or better instructions these items. Hmmm ... I wonder if Scottie has any offspring at any of the stations to assist in training new engineers or craftsmen?
There is one thing I would like to request: for those items that are either "built" (crafted) , purchased via "grinding" or pruchased via "C" store it might be a suggestion to have some PHYSICAL difference as an option for these ships. Why? Frankly someone who has taken the time to grind 500 points should have somnething that stands out ... sort of a merit badge.
Investing time into the game is much like anything else. And, frankly, folks like to see a little recognition as a result of their labor!
(just my own thoughts)
I think if you see better diversification and balance the issue will go away. Why?
Because people know they will be able to X amount of time on content they prefer to do and be rewarded at a resonable rate.
Let's say on Monday I want to spend three hours exploring (we won't get into what is wrong with exploration) and I get 15 emblems. Then on Tuesday I want to run dalies and spend three hours on those and get awarded 15 emblems. On Saturday I have all the time in the world and can sink 10 hrs of gameplay in on a variety of things and know I will come out with 50 emblems.
No mater how you cut it, it is still 100 hrs for 500 emblems, but I know I have a constant rate and a diversity of options in game to switch to if I get bored with one thing.
The number are just an example before people get their hackles up. The big problem with emblems is they are doubly penalized, via in game play time (by the player) and by the amount per day (by the devs). If if you do have all the time to play you are still limited by the amount you can do (which is why on one day I will get all the missions, then on the second day I will run them, then take and run them again
I am not sure they would allow this. It would make it too easy for those with millions of EC lying around to buy Data Samples on the Exchange and build the ship for little to no effort.
Ok maybe this has been mentioned, but this post got me thinking. Why not up the amount of Emblems based on mission difficulty. Normal = a normal payout, Advanced = x1.5, Elite = x2 ? Or something to that effect.
I will but I will get much crappier drops so you have to balance that in. Hence, advanced is the good middle ground. Decent time, ehrm decent drops???
I whole heartedly support this statement. I DO, however, make one small request. For those items we grind or craft .. make some change in the style, design, or other physical appearance to reflect the investment of time. This change is in NO way to EVER be a gaming "advantage" ... only in physical appearance.
Thank You
What do you do as Vice Admiral. Your options are:
- Exploration. That got a Daily.
- PvP. That got a Daiy.
- Doing the Dailies in Orrelius, Eta Eridani or Pi Canis (if you're Klingon).
- Doing the STFs. (those are Dailies)
- Replaying an old mission. That's the only thing that does not award Emblems.
So that's pretty much it. That's what you can do once you reach endgame. And nothing of that does not include doing repetitive stuff.
No matter what you do, when you are Vice Admiral and finally have the ability to gain Emblems, you can't escape repetition. You can barely escape making Emblems either.
Only if you just roleplay - e.g. do not complete missions - you cannot earn Emblems. B
So the moment you do any kind of mix of - still repeatable - activities, you earn Emblems. Yes, if you don't dedicate yourself to earning Emblems, you might need more then a month to earn 500 Emblems.
But no matter what you do - you'll get into repetition.
1) Corporations cannot, by definition, be greedy. Or generous. They are not human beings. They are an entity that exists only in law, with only one purpose, to generate profits for their shareholders. That is why 'Atari' exists. It exists as a series of legal filings that allows it to sell a product, with the sole purpose of generating revenue. There are good and bad companies. Good companies generate a lot of profit for their shareholders. Bad companies lose money. An individual shareholder can be greedy or generous, but I have no idea who all of the Atari shareholders are, let alone anything about their personal morality.
2) You have a third option. Roll an alt, level him up, get the other ship. A bit of a grind? Sure. Compared to 500 Emblems? Not so bad.
3) This 'account-wide' thing is a red herring. Why on earth would you want all, or even more than one, of your toons to be flying the exact same ship? The best thing about this game is the customization.
crafted items are "different" than others .. This is not to be confused with items that are available for emblems. Each are different .. each would also be different in appearance. It is in no way intended to devalue other items in the game. (I hope this makes sense).
why would you wnat to finish "sooner" IF THE player is looking for better drops. Frankly much of the "drops" leave something to be desired. It's so bad that I rarely rely on them to build ANY ship or toon.
Customization allows us to switch ships as well. Some people do have several alts that they may want to try in different ships. Suppose you have 2 characters you would like to try piloting an Excelsior Refit? That player would need to farm twice as much for the same thing.
Asking a person to earn 500 Emblems per character is punitive.
Tribble. Copy your character over, buy the ship. Copy him again, buy the other ship. We have a (nearly) constantly available test-server that we can use for experiments like that. Its one of the benefits.
The discussion was leaning toward "how much time does it take" to earn X amount of Emblems. Strictly speaking of Emblems over time (with Emblems being your only goal), you will earn Emblems faster running on Normal mode.
What do I do? Personally? I go get my new ship, craft some new components for it.... and start a new character. (Yeah I know, stupid to waste time crafting stuff for a ship and captain that will rarely get used.) I've leveled 7 characters to the cap, 5 feds and 2 klinks, so for me at this point even the leveling content is getting repetitive.
How does that help the player who wants to have more than 1 ship per character?
agreed... I would focus on grinding .. what ever drops come along use them to buy consumables... etc (maybe a nice Bat' leth) ..
if ya want the good stuff, sooner or later a player will be doing some grinding (it's just that simple).
(BTW... I think we're on the same page. )
Well the overarching issue that this thread can be boiled down to is "Lack of end game diversity".
I think this can be said of many threads on these forums and we are now over a year since launch and we still really have no end game, nor have I even seen anything that remotely addresses end game playability or diversity.
This is what will mostly likely happen given the behavior of people considering we have both power and casual gamers in STO.
Lack of end game content and diversity - Power gamers will simply get bored and unsub.
Lack of diversity in "grindy" content - Casual gamers will feel gaited or get bored and unsub.
Now don't get me wrong, Cryptic and Stahl have done a great job catching this game up to where it should have been at launch a year ago but, we need some creative, engaging, and diverse end game systems.
I realize we are not at end game yet because max level has not been released, but I am having a lack of confidence that when Fleet Admiral rolls out, this type of end game will roll out with it. The pivotal point in this game will come when Fleet Admiral is available. Right now we just wait.
It doesn't. That's not what you asked. You asked 'What about a person who wants to try out two different ships?" That's what I responded to. If you want another ship, you have three options:
1) C-Store
2) 500 Emblems
3) Roll an alt.
If you don't want to do 3, for whatever reason, then you have options 1 and 2.
Dear Stormshade,
Note that some ships have third method of acquisition. The Retrofits of the Galaxy, Defiant and Intrepid are also available for the Vice Admiral Ship Requisition Plaque, while the Nebula, Excelsior, etc. are not.
Perhaps if that was an option for the other ships as well there would be less complaints?
Also, raising the Emblem price on the Nebula when some people were already able to get it for fewer Emblems was just dirty play. Some players that were only a few Emblems away found that suddenly their cup was half empty again, when it was nearly full.
:cool:
Can you imagine if they expect to charge us C-Store money for the upcoming Oberth and maybe the Ambassador? The only new content we are getting is via the Featured Episodes and Season updates but those do not include ships.
Ok perhaps I could have worded it slightly better. Using this example, suppose you have 2 characters that you would like in a Defiant Refit? You have to spend twice the time to earn 1,000 Emblems then, not just 500. That is what I was saying is punitive.
Personally, I do not find it unreasonable to have the 500 Emblems unlock the desired ship accountwide.
Regardless of being viewed as a valid business practice, it lacks common decency; which is something I'd pay for.
very well said