Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

im saying the intended purpose of the proc is to work as designed, and as described, extrapolating some other specified balance requirement based on your utopian vision of the way the game should be balanced is just you making things up to fit your subjective interpretation of reality, and the proof of that is the way you would design things in order to fix what you think needs to be fixed is not the way things are.

So then all I see is a bunch of circular logic and such. So its not meant to counter aps and just be inherently broken? must not be a need at all for it then.

Also why is it only casters are defending it? oh wait... ya nvm.

I dont ask for a utopia of balance. Just for me to be able to play my role as a support class as im supposed to be AGAINST everyone. Be able to always stun/dg/amp at the appropriate times.

With purify I wont be able to do that, especially if im supporting a group of lesser geared people.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I don't think GOF is OP, my post was simply to show you how bad your argument is. You can just switch a couple words around to describe GOF instead of purify, but the countless objections come up because there isn't any meat behind the argument.. it is simple a description of the proc without accounting for any of the other variables that affect balance (such as base survival/damage of classes, skill effects etc etc). You are looking under a microscope at a couple cherry picked things and missing the big picture.

Not that this even matters, but if you wanted to kill end game players as a bm.. you NEED gof. This actually ties in with what I was just saying, if you were to simply compare the procs without accounting for anything else, you might think removing all procs would affect each class equally.. and this is just not the case. BMs especially would be taking the really really short stick being unable to kill anything end game. I could literally tank through locks letting my genie recharge and apoth come off cd while the bm wastes all their chi trying to keep me stuck in place.

Long story short, I don't think purify is OP at all.. and every single end game competent player that I've talked to has agreed with me (both casters and non-casters). All of the whining/complaining has come from undergeared/underskilled players.. none of which have offered an argument that I find even mildly convincing.

f:melon AGREE as far game go, seem balance now and no more OP melee/dex class.

And the mods haven't locked this thread yet maybe they won't lock this anytime soon, they might as well put this as a sticky b:laugh

Also, LOL @ Adroit saying purify proc isn't OP. Too overgeared to the point of your skills being so dull, you can't do well in decent gear. An endgame BM needs GOF to kill endgame players? LOL just LOL. Archers need spiritblackhole to kill others? Really? Do you even know what having skill is? Procs are just like marco/charms/autopots, it activates for you, you don't activate it yourself manually. That's not skill, that's laziness.

Just keep purify the way it is anyway... People don't like things nerfed anyway.

@Crazybladema - Current end game is not the same as end game a few years ago, I don't think you can really know what it is like now because you have taken part in what end game was a while ago. I hope this doesn't offend you, but I do not go off what other people consider skilled. There is a very very small portion of the lost city population that I consider skilled (can count them with just my fingers), but everyone seems to think they are skilled and qualified to say who they think are skilled. I'm not saying you don't know what you're doing, but I will not take you on your word that you are skilled.. I'd be more than happy to make an alt on HL and watch you pvp so I can form an opinion if you'd like though.

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

what is the purpose of gof? make up for damage lacking compared to caster? but dont melee have like 50-60% more hp than caster? why do they have to hit as much as casters if they have more survivability? wasnt crit designed already for this purpose? how can you defend that?

b:pleased

Are you trying to argue melees can't have more damage than ranged WTF.

Range is survivability.

Endgame BM for a year how long ago? Back in the days endgame BM could function with OHT axes IJS.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You have missed the point completely. It is not a fix to balance aps, the proc is not designed purely to counter sins/bms hitting you on auto attack. Competent sins and bms (you know the skillful ones that know how to play their class) can stun lock a caster without using auto attack and with GoF weapons can do some real damage without the caster being able to react.

The same can easily be said about melees who aren't endgame, so many casters can easily 2-3 shot 85%+ of the melees that are even in nw... especially bm's. Though this is where the gear comes into play. As adroit so gracefully pointed out he can so outlast our stunlock's/damage if we didn't have GOF. /o\

I still for one question if just removing the speed buff would do anything to help 'rebalance' things out specifically for bms. Still when you look at the skills available to a bm to avoid the proc activating, each have a rather long cooldown, and the one 'stun' skill that wont activate the proc can easily be nulled and voided out by someone "helping" to attack the caster, or even the bm itself, because each of the seals/sleep/immoblize built in skill also 'attacks' the caster as well as puts the status effects on them. When you look at each of the skills that could be used to stop a caster in its tracks, only the 3 second seal Smack (with 40 second cooldown) and Roar.. the 6 second stun (15 second cooldown), reckless rush has a 3 second immoblization (2 minute cooldown), and there is also bolt of tyresues 5 second freeze (with another long 2 minute cooldown), have the ability to 'lockdown' a caster
... and only roar has no chance of activating the proc. When you add it all up that is a grand whooping total of 11 seconds, which is more then enough time to kill most casters if your end game. That isn't even me pointing out the chi cost it would take to pull it off. (2 sparks if anyone's wondering.) yes there is also reel in, but its range is quite limited especially with the speed buff the casters get handed to them with the purify proc.

The point is that... that so isn't that much at all, 4/5 skills that would ignore the effects of purify, but still the sleep/freeze skills that they have would so still allow the caster to pwn the snot out of the bm UNLESS the bm can handle it. When you throw in random nubs trying to help the bm take down the caster one of those skills absolutely has the true potential to be undone by the nubs helping.

It's one thing when the gear TRULY does 'BLOW AWAY' everyone else's, but when there is a proc thrown into the mix, that destroy's... no damn near annihilate's what bm's does best, and arguably its the only thing a bm can even do once they are near if they hope to kill you.. that is when it is seriously ridiculous. This isn't even reiterating what has been said/debated to death by myself and others. (The bit that more people SHOULD NOT mean in ANY case ONCE-SOEVER... a higher chance for the caster to skate away and continue their onslaught) As it has been said to death, a bm is heavily chi reliant, we use the chi to try and lock you down, we wont have the chi to seal/freeze/immobilize. (yes there is genies/apos, but those are far more likely to run out long before you get the chance you all need to alcapwn us into china. (Again UNLESS we have the gear/weapon to possibly survive/kill you before you caster have a chance to alcapwn us into nothingness.)

I realize end game this proc is far less of an issue... and true 1 on 1 fights this purify proc is far from an issue. Still there is a scenario that has been stated to death where the proc is WAY too useful for casters.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Now sins, that's just another story. Nobody should balance around sins.

If they take sins out of the game, I'll happily give up purify proc, ijs.

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

If they take sins out of the game, I'll happily give up purify proc, ijs.

Remember most 3 skills of sin give chis are ( lv 11) raising strike dragon 150 chis, inner harmony : 200 chis, demon shadow escape 100 chis.

Eoria,,, if wanna take sins out of game/threats,, it 's easy,, take sin inner harmony skill (instantly give full 2 sparks) out of skill bar or make cool down 3 mins atleast,,, not 1 mins like I mentioned in the another thread then we can see sins are no more full chis all the time.



With Procs effect, phys melees are most disadvantage class against any casters (especially BMs) even equal gears- weapon-refine and will be almost impossible to lock down in massive attacks like NWs where a lot of alts, under/ middle geared players in same war.

this should be moved to the NATION WARS forum, since the speed add of purify proc (and any other speed incresing mesures) should indeed be disabled as flag-carrier for any class.

in pvp this was an extremely overdue addition for casters (not for psychics imo).
many people here attibute the survivability of those arcane flagcarriers to the purify-proc. let me assure you, that even without that add 99% of you could not kill a fully jaded r9 recast+12 caster - in fact it may be even harder since purify proc OVERWRITES much longer lasting apoths. the disparity of gear strenghts is the problem, not the add. you need an insane survivability in the first place to even be able to take advantage of purify proc, wich is just 8%. and at that point, like mentioned, most here could not even tick such a build anyway.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

True I mean look at the classes that use GoF to charm bypass with crit zerks off that 25% chance....and the 30% or so crit rate... its like theres a 8% or lower chance to crit zerk

And mele crit or zerk = caster normal hit...

Wow looking at the chances purify gives waaay more bang for your buck in any situation dosent it?

Seriously sit down and look at the number of hits it takes each non purify class to kill a self buffed purify class

then work out how much luck either side needs

Hell Assume w/e gear level you want I worked these out at +10 full R999 JOSD and +12 full R999 josd when I bothered

Turns out purify has a pretty stupidly high chance of procing before the attacking procs become relevant on someone at endgame gear even in a 1v1.

(damage needed to kill)/(# of hits in longest stun time x DPH) = extra damage fron crit/zerks needed just divide this by base damage and you'll see how many times crit/zerk is needed. Hint its lower than an 8% chance most of the time self buffed and ALWAYS lower fully buffed

for SBH its # of hits to proc SBH+# of hits needed to kill x 8/100 = chance of purify

Again purify will go off before kill most of the time. (If I remember right its like a 3 to once chance of purify getting you out before the kill)

So in relevant situations purify has the highest chance of any proc to activate when its most needed AND the greatest impact on the game AND completely breaks group pvp AND breaks quite a bit of pve

Dude

ya'll are just thuper shpethal if you think this proc is balanced anywhere outside the purify/purify mirror

That said purify has only a very small impact when your geni/apoc/ save me skills are on CD and someone can threaten lethal damage at a decent % chance. However with the increased chance of escaping elsewhere the ability to focus ONLY on immediately lethal situations instead of only potentially lethal situations means that the chances of being caught in a "well bugger" situation are slim enough that they can be ignored entirely

Quoted because I dont feel like retyping

I like how some people are desperate enough to make any change to the purify proc that they actually let you get away with this "not OP 1v1" nonsense

Kill it with fire.

FayHumming - Dreamweaver wrote: »

f:confused what is OP? Do purify 1shot everyone? b:chuckle how this skill overpower when purify help to run away.

...Really?

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You have missed the point completely. It is not a fix to balance aps, the proc is not designed purely to counter sins/bms hitting you on auto attack. Competent sins and bms (you know the skillful ones that know how to play their class) can stun lock a caster without using auto attack and with GoF weapons can do some real damage without the caster being able to react.

are you actually saying that skilled people that know how to play their class shouldnt be able to kill casters with knowing how to stun lock and use their skills??

in end game fights with same gears (not to even talk about being fully buffed) any physical dmg class wont be able to kill casters easy as you are saying(due to casters high pshy def or defense level self buffs)

anyway the problem doesnt lay in fair 1v1 fights as much as it does in group fights

NW is a joke...1 person running around with permanent 200% speed buff and antistun against 20 other people is totally ridiculous...no matter of gears and refines,any class shouldnt be able to do such things without using any of their class skills,genie or apotecary

its just an easy way for max geared noob casters to get satisfied being successful in at least one thing (*points into Adroit* - makeing videos of 20vs1 saying purify is not op and it takes pure skill to score a flag just by playing with W,A,S,D carrying flag to enemy base without even attacking anyone

pure skill>gears,refine,purify

trands wrote: »

I find all those other classes that turn a flag in at max speed while being protected by anti-movement debuffs the whole way WITHOUT being hit on way worse actually.

Seriously, 20vs1 and the 1 being able to turn in the flag comes from either 20 idiots or 20 players that are more obsessed with getting points then winning for their nation. I had a group of those against me in a 1vs18, and they just tried to kill me for 6+ minutes while not even trying to get the flag then call me OP for purify proc b:lipcurl

This remind me of a time when I was with Adroit and an random ep (but really good ep!). So we were 3, against 20 and at one point that people instead of trying to stop adroit from capturing, at least 10 of them were obsessed trying to kill me. I just took advantage of the situation and ran around kiting them, while Adroit was going almost effortlessly to the capture b:lipcurl

Here's a video with some recent group pvp I just came across
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLuYEydahoM&feature=youtu.be

Anyone care to share what parts in the video they saw multiple opponents improving the survivability of a caster, or really just where the issue is? Like I said before, pointing to a time where purify procs is not an argument for it being OP (just like pointing to a time where gof procs does not mean it is OP).. we are looking for an imbalance (again not just the proc doing what it is supposed to do.. which is to help casters kite a little better).