Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!
Comments
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BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »He is not an idiot, he is right. this thread is about pury weapon. b:chuckle
You do realize that if we all went around gearless casters would have an extreme advantage right? One shots from 30 meters good fight.0 -
Euzebe - Sanctuary wrote: »Your 20 badly geared allies would be in town rebuffing after the press of a Vac or Faith/IG or whatever, even without this proc. 20 badly geared characters also likely couldn't kill a barb equally geared to this caster.
Continue, but like I said, specific scenarios to suit the argument.
but if they have made the preson you are fighting use "vac or faith/IG" then they have helped by burning that persons CDs/genie energy allowing you to more easly take them down. Where as by procing a casters weapon they have not burned their genie or apoths and have given them an opportunity to get away from your range so hindering you or any attempt to lock down the caster.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »You do realize that if we all went around gearless casters would have an extreme advantage right? One shots from 30 meters good fight.
What the hell has this to do with purify proc ? LOL
You cant answer my question , so first you try childish insults , then you try changing the subject ....
LOL ... No wonder this thread always seams to end up off subject ..0 -
marvinhuddleston wrote: »What the hell has this to do with purify proc ? LOL
You cant answer my question , so first you try childish insults , then you try changing the subject ....
LOL ... No wonder this thread always seams to end up off subject ..
So let me get this straight. Purify Spell isn't overpowered at equal gear because nobody uses a weapon that's of a far lower gear tier and has far less attack power than another readily available weapon that also has it? Dude. You are the smarterest. If we were all using G13 gear with decent refines we'd be in the same situation. However, we have R9r3, which means that's the gear we're gonna use. A G13 weapons against that level of gear, even with Purify Spell isn't going to do much.
You aren't helping your case. Your post essentially boils down to "da wep proc is no op cuz lowr lv wep no gud agenst high lvl gearz".0 -
marvinhuddleston wrote: »The purify proc comes on a lvl 13 base weapon , ever hear of anyone with that weapon winning a 20 v 1 ?
Yes or No
If the your answer is no , then thank you for proving it isnt the proc , but the end game gear .
its a combination of both, give a AA full r9rr+10 but no PS im pretty sure that they will get locked up and burst down, heck a HF even at lvl 1 is a massive amp.
Then give said AA the ceremonial weapon from winning TW faction, the r9rr+10 gear will allow them to tank enough hits for their weapon proc to become effective and so zip away.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Is this thread even gonna change anything? u really think PWI will change anything about purify proc? Has purify proc been changed on the original server?
It's a brave new world....TAKE IT LIKE A MAN.....
But still **** purify. And it's not the purify, its the anti stun and movement speed that's the problem. Purify is needed to fight sin's only, but lets **** all other melee classes by adding movement speed and anti stun effects.Find the solution to Laplace's equation at X=2, Y =3, OR bend over b:cry0 -
GOF procs then that caster in equal gear isnt running away , even if the purify does proc . Now back to subject ...
If purify proc is so overpowering , Then why haven't we ever heard of a caster with the lvl 13 base weapon ever winning a 20 v 1 ...
Its not the proc you hate , What you hate is that casters in endgame gear are no longer a pi0 -
what i complain about the most is that the purity proc removes all debuff, if it just removed the stun and immobilize and sleep i wouldnt hate it as much.
if we take the MOST OP barb of all the servers he would get killed by 20 low geared attacking him, but a caster would just TROLLFACE away at the speed of light, the purity is a game breaker and that is the problem, sure casters need some kind of proc but purity is just not the one they should get0 -
marvinhuddleston wrote: »GOF procs then that caster in equal gear isnt running away , even if the purify does proc . Now back to subject ...
If purify proc is so overpowering , Then why haven't we ever heard of a caster with the lvl 13 base weapon ever winning a 20 v 1 ...
Its not the proc you hate , What you hate is that casters in endgame gear are no longer a pi
Because nobody in their right mind would get a base weapon while R9r3 exists. Or while R8r exists. R8r and a base wep would both allow a caster to maintain their permanent debufflessness. Or near-permanent in that scenario. Which is the entire issue.0 -
marvinhuddleston wrote: »GOF procs then that caster in equal gear isnt running away , even if the purify does proc . Now back to subject ... If purify proc is so overpowering , Then why haven't we ever heard of a caster with the lvl 13 base weapon ever winning a 20 v 1 ... Its not the proc you hate , What you hate is casters in endgame gear are no longer a pi
im just gona quote my selfUnholly - Morai wrote: »its a combination of both, give a AA full r9rr+10 but no PS im pretty sure that they will get locked up and burst down, heck a HF even at lvl 1 is a massive amp.
Then give said AA the ceremonial weapon from winning TW faction, the r9rr+10 gear will allow them to tank enough hits for their weapon proc to become effective and so zip away.
if a caster is carrying the flag or just purely kitting away weapon damage can be 0 for all intensive purposes because they dont need any damage on their weapon for PS to proc though it ofc would be preferable so they can take out choice targets
The reason you dont hear of lvl 13 base weapons winning a 20v1 is because people who would be using a weapon like that wouldnt have the gear to tank out enough hits for the skill to be even slightly useful, and the people who do have the gear will have the proc on their main weapon and so why use a lower lvl weapon. As i said before its a combination of the two.
Skilled casters in end game gear were never a "pi"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
youtube.com/user/unhollyPWI0 -
marvinhuddleston wrote: »The purify proc comes on a lvl 13 base weapon , ever hear of anyone with that weapon winning a 20 v 1 ? No ... because it isnt the proc , it's the rank 9 3rd cast thats can .
or maybe nobody (or very few to generaly enough QQ volume) uses the base weapon/r8ryou only purge once #yopo0 -
Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver wrote: »what i complain about the most is that the purity proc removes all debuff, if it just removed the stun and immobilize and sleep i wouldnt hate it as much.
if we take the MOST OP barb of all the servers he would get killed by 20 low geared attacking him, but a caster would just TROLLFACE away at the speed of light, the purity is a game breaker and that is the problem, sure casters need some kind of proc but purity is just not the one they should get
most op barb can capture flag vs 20 low gears, seem happen all time. sound like you complain about NW and you team suck or no teamwork.0 -
Purify needs to be nerfed so its more balanced. Only 3 simple changes need to be made to it and it would do what it was intended to do ( help against aps ). In fact it do its job better in that regard with that nerf.
1. Take away the speed part of the proc.
2. increase the proc rate from 8% to 16%
3. Make it only work against AUTO ATTACKS
These three simple changes would balance the proc. While still giving casters who have it a decent advantage without being broken. b:pleased0 -
Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »Purify needs to be nerfed so its more balanced. Only 3 simple changes need to be made to it and it would do what it was intended to do ( help against aps ). In fact it do its job better in that regard with that nerf.
1. Take away the speed part of the proc.
2. increase the proc rate from 8% to 16%
3. Make it only work against AUTO ATTACKS
These three simple changes would balance the proc. While still giving casters who have it a decent advantage without being broken. b:pleased
+1 for this0 -
Onatop - Lost City wrote: »Is this thread even gonna change anything? u really think PWI will change anything about purify proc? Has purify proc been changed on the original server?
It's a brave new world....TAKE IT LIKE A MAN.....
But still **** purify. And it's not the purify, its the anti stun and movement speed that's the problem. Purify is needed to fight sin's only, but lets **** all other melee classes by adding movement speed and anti stun effects.
I may not know this for sure, but I am indeed pretty sure that it has been said before, (in another thread a while back) they can't swipe credit cards there in china to obtain this "super leet" gear. Ergo the purify proc is far less of an issue there.
We may be taking it to extremes with the examples that are coming up with those who are against it, but still the fact of the matter is our scenario is far more likely to come up then the counter scenarios. Besides the issue again isn't 1 vs 1, I don't think anyone who has regularly posted on this thread ever tried to claim that the purify proc was an issue in 1 on 1 fights. Ergo there is nothing to 'concede' since we never said it was overpowered in 1 on 1 fights.
If you have proof, and can post a quote of someone (WHO HAS BEEN POSTING IN this going nowhere new thread) saying specifically ' 1 on 1 fights the purify proc is overpowered... or something very similar with the words 1 on 1 in their comment'.. then obviously i'll stand corrected.
Also one more thing saying the proc isn't overpowered and using a g13 weapon as an example is a poor argument at best. Of course it isn't as useful then, it would be like a 5.0 sin/bm with like gorenox vanities, (it can happen with the right gear/build) trying to take on others... there is almost no way it will be as effective.
The proc is an issue, and will remain issues in the scenarios that have been mentioned numerous times in this thread. I have heard/read complaints about pvp being dead... perhaps the reason is the purify proc. Sure... I am sure there are other reasons for it being dead, but this proc sure doesn't help things. At least not imo. (Who would want to have to deal with the purify proc caster + someone that would only help the caster no matter who he or she attacks? I know I for one wouldn't.... I also realize its group pvp some things are out of each persons control... but this proc... is just crazy how much potential it has to heavily favor the purify proc user.)
<--- is so expecting someone to ignore everything I added after one specific sentence. *prepares for counter argument.Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver wrote: »+1 for this
If only that nerf would be implemented though. I doubt its going to happen though.0 -
pi is or was pinata ... You melee want our buffs , heals and our aoe's . But mostly you just want us to be your pinatas filled with lots of supply tokens , that die fast and easy ... So sorry to disapoint you , because even in lowly g16 . I AM YOUR WORSE CHARM TICK . Thank you for proving that its the endgame gear and not the purify proc .0
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Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »Purify needs to be nerfed so its more balanced. Only 3 simple changes need to be made to it and it would do what it was intended to do ( help against aps ). In fact it do its job better in that regard with that nerf.
1. Take away the speed part of the proc.
2. increase the proc rate from 8% to 16%
3. Make it only work against AUTO ATTACKS
These three simple changes would balance the proc. While still giving casters who have it a decent advantage without being broken. b:pleased
your premise is flawed, therefore your solution is flawed.
that premise being "that it was intended to 'help against aps'"
since improved defenses already 'help against aps', 'the inteded purpose' of purify was already addressed before it was made accessible.
dont you think it is far more likely that the 'intended puirpose' of purify is to behave EXACTLY the way it does? it would seem far more likely that the way things are is they way they are intended to be, than your alternative hypothesis. your personal displeasure with this reality does not in any way detract from how real it is.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I still don't know why this thread hasn't been closed.GM fail to answer?0
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marvinhuddleston wrote: »pi is or was pinata ... You melee want our buffs , heals and our aoe's . But mostly you just want us to be your pinatas filled with lots of supply tokens , that die fast and easy ... So sorry to disapoint you , because even in lowly g16 . I AM YOUR WORSE CHARM TICK . Thank you for proving that its the endgame gear and not the purify proc .
Sounds like a great argument for purify. Using pinatas for an analogy and (I AM WORSE CHARM TICK) for an analogy too.
Not really
No the problem really isn't endgame gear. Its that in the right conditions purify is very op and because of that it needs to be nerfed.
especially in mass pvp
Topic needs to go back on track.0 -
SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »your premise is flawed, therefore your solution is flawed.
that premise being "that it was intended to 'help against aps'"
since improved defenses already 'help against aps', 'the inteded purpose' of purify was already addressed before it was made accessible.
dont you think it is far more likely that the 'intended puirpose' of purify is to behave EXACTLY the way it does? it would seem far more likely that the way things are is they way they are intended to be, than your alternative hypothesis. your personal displeasure with this reality does not in any way detract from how real it is.
But that's the argument most people make for purify. Is that it was implemented to help with the aps problem in pvp.
So what exactly are you saying the proc is for then?
Casters have genie/appoc and skills to avoid stunlocks and amps.
Are you saying that casters are supposed to get a lucky break just cause? Are you saying that casters needed more help getting out of these situations more than the melle/ranged users? How do you suppose that is balanced?
What exactly is the purpose then and how can you defend it?
i swear there were post before this >.>0 -
what is the purpose of gof? make up for damage lacking compared to caster? but dont melee have like 50-60% more hp than caster? why do they have to hit as much as casters if they have more survivability? wasnt crit designed already for this purpose? how can you defend that?
b:pleased0 -
ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »what is the purpose of gof? make up for damage lacking compared to caster? but dont melee have like 50-60% more hp than caster? why do they have to hit as much as casters if they have more survivability? wasnt crit designed already for this purpose? how can you defend that?
b:pleased
+1 game already balance out0 -
ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »what is the purpose of gof? make up for damage lacking compared to caster? but dont melee have like 50-60% more hp than caster? why do they have to hit as much as casters if they have more survivability? wasnt crit designed already for this purpose? how can you defend that?
b:pleased
Pdef buffs, most classes can stack up to 3 of these
where as mdef most can only get cleric buffs
doesn't that balance out the more hp argument a little bit?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
youtube.com/user/unhollyPWI0 -
ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »what is the purpose of gof? make up for damage lacking compared to caster? but dont melee have like 50-60% more hp than caster? why do they have to hit as much as casters if they have more survivability? wasnt crit designed already for this purpose? how can you defend that?
b:pleased
Actually it really is kinda necessary for bms to jump charms more efficiently. Also helps barbs and seekers jump charms because they are reliant on "spike damage" to kill. I understand that this may be a hard concept to understand but stick with me.
GOF just helps seekers, barbs and bms. They don't give any of those classes a free ticket to escape stuns or amps. They just help with these classes low damage output and gives them higher potential spike damage. That may very well be necessary endgame vs other ha users and tanky AA and LA.
It even has a drawback with is a reduction of 5% and this really adds up when you are in these high hp classes.
However purify has no drawbacks, gives anyone who uses a free ticket to escape a stun/amp combo when it procs. It gives even more benefits when more people attack the user. Its not really necessary either as all Casters have access to genies, appoc and their own personal class skills.
In short GOF helps HA's with their spike damage
Purify gives a free ride to anyone who uses it
Because purify has no drawbacks except maybe it could be purge. Thats like calling cleric buffs a drawback because they can be purged. There is really no good argument for purify. People who defend it are funny b:laugh
If you don't read all the above. Just like purify, gof isn't necessary. I will gladly give up gof if it means I can have my status back as a support class.0 -
Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »Actually it really is kinda necessary for wizards to jump out of locks more efficiently. Also helps other casters to survive because they are squishy to begin with. I understand that this may be a hard concept to understand but stick with me.
Purify just helps casters. They don't give any of those classes a free chance to do double damage. They just help with these classes low base survival and gives them higher potential to survive a situation. That may very well be necessary endgame vs other hard hitting classes.
It even has a drawback that it doesn't have a chance to proc from some skills.
However gof has a laughable drawback, gives anyone who uses a random chance to bypass an opponent. It gives even more benefits when you hit more people. Its not really necessary either as all melee have access to genies, appoc and their own personal class skills.
In short purify helps casters with their survivability
gof gives a free ride to everyone who uses it.
Because gof has no drawbacks except maybe it could lower the hp of a class that is still very tanky. Thats like calling cleric buffs a drawback because they can be purged. There is really no good argument against purify. People who whine about it are funny b:laugh
Switched a few words around so your argument now argues against gof. If you are not convinced gof is OP after reading your own argument, how could you expect this to convince anyone that purify is OP?Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
nope firstly at endgame wizzys arnt squishy
Genie/appoc and your skills are all you need to get out of stunlocks.
Also doesn't proc against certain skills? Maybe a few, but the vast majority of skills affect the proc. Still a bad argument .
The fact that you imply this, makes me really wonder. Can you kite without purify? Do you know your class? Maybe Ill watch a few videos of yours and ill find out.
I do not feel threatened by the loss of GOF. As a player I dont need it and id figure out one way or another to kill X or Y class.
But you do feel threatened by the loss of Purify. That probably stems from the fact that many unskilled mages use it as a crutch in order to win. Something I do not look fondly at.
Ill gladly give up GOF if Purify get removed from the game. Its overpowered and needs to be changed. b:bye0 -
Adroit - Lost City wrote: »Switched a few words around so your argument now argues against gof. If you are not convinced gof is OP after reading your own argument, how could you expect this to convince anyone that purify is OP?
You are going to argue that Gof is OP really? lets look at your fight with bait then
highest i remember seeing him hit you was 10k gof crit where as your non crits were going up to the 12k mark, and your highest hit at 41k crit.
uhu sounds like you still have the edge on a much higher damage potential.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »But that's the argument most people make for purify. Is that it was implemented to help with the aps problem in pvp.
So what exactly are you saying the proc is for then?
Casters have genie/appoc and skills to avoid stunlocks and amps.
Are you saying that casters are supposed to get a lucky break just cause? Are you saying that casters needed more help getting out of these situations more than the melle/ranged users? How do you suppose that is balanced?
What exactly is the purpose then and how can you defend it?
i swear there were post before this >.>
im saying the intended purpose of the proc is to work as designed, and as described, extrapolating some other specified balance requirement based on your utopian vision of the way the game should be balanced is just you making things up to fit your subjective interpretation of reality, and the proof of that is the way you would design things in order to fix what you think needs to be fixed is not the way things are.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »im saying the intended purpose of the proc is to work as designed, and as described, extrapolating some other specified balance requirement based on your utopian vision of the way the game should be balanced is just you making things up to fit your subjective interpretation of reality, and the proof of that is the way you would design things in order to fix what you think needs to be fixed is not the way things are.
+1 T
The proc works exactly how it was meant to. It was not made to counter people using high aps on casters - one of the fixes that Crazybladema wants as a solution is to make it only activate on auto attacks, there have been a lot of weird things said in this thread but this for me takes the cake.
Casters have no real antistun ability and can easily be locked in place. Yes there is a valid point that they can use genie/apo to break out of this but if you have any sense in pvp you will know that using all your resources just to be defensive while your opponent can use their genie/apo/skills to keep up the offensive then you are generally going to be in a lot of trouble.
The proc gives casters the "chance" to get out of said situations and be able to escape or mount an offensive without wasting energy on defending the whole time, the purify and antistun in my opinion are fine - what is over the top is the constant holypath speed that is added on top.0
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