Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

Tsyn - Raging Tide
Tsyn - Raging Tide Posts: 149 Arc User
edited May 2013 in General Discussion
Hello,

After a lot of discussion, I think it would be interesting to see what the community thinks about removing/modifying purify proc. Hopefully we will not see a 50/50 distribution of votes when this poll is finished (as that would just mean Melees would be voting against Purify, and Arcanes for it).

The following is a list of common yes/no's to the current Purify Proc issue.

Yes to Purify:(Note: This list mostly applies to the casters themselves)

-Gives casters survivability that they previously may have lacked
-Gives casters greater mobility (as opposed to melee character speed buffs)
-Allows for "lucky saves"
-Destroys stunlocks that require damage
-Anti APS users
-20v1 Adroit Style in NW

No to Purify:

-Gives casters survivability that only HAs are supposed to have at equal gears
-Gives casters greater mobility that vastly outperforms melee speed buffs
-Allows for "lucky saves" even if the player using Purify is unskilled
-Destroys stunlocks that require damage
-20v1 Adroit Style in NW is OP
-Vastly outperforms other weapon effects, which require that the user attacks (as opposed to Purify's "being attacked" requirement) e.g. :Archer Purge/GoF are powerful but "ride" on attacks - Purify proc does not require the caster to do anything.

There are, of course, more reasons, but personally I think they're all variations of what I have listed.

My opinion:

Personally, I rather like the challenge of Purify Proc while 1v1sing S3 casters. The random breaking of my skill sequences forces me to think of counters and plan Bs. While some people may not find this enjoyable, I do.

However, the problem of Purify rears its ugly head in group PvP, where I completely think that it is overpowered. Defeating 20 people vs 1 is absolutely ridiculous. Even the APS users of the past, when they were considered overpowered, could not singlehandly take on two entire squads. (If they could, they were either killing level 50s or they were GMs.)

My solution is a bit strange. Since I want to keep Purify proc and also prevent it from being overpowered in the group PvP field, I would like to see the following changes:

a. Purify Proc % remains the same as other proc rates.
b. Purify anti-stun remains the same as current condition.
c. Keep the "dispel" effect. (Retain the purify).
d. Purify speed-effect is completely removed.

This solution would make Purify proc almost as hard as it is to counter now in 1v1.

However, it would balance group PvP. For one, there would be no infinite speedbuffs for escape. A caster would be forced to use their own speedbuffs or move at their regular speed, which would allow for enough time for their opponents to kill them before they moved out of range. Since anti-stun is also non-stackable, it would mean there would be small % chances to CC in between procs.

Of course, there might be further ways to modify Purify Proc, but that's just my take on it.

Overall, what do you guys think? There's no need to post, so let's see if we can get an unbiased opinion from the community: To keep, modify, or remove the Purify weapon effect.
Post edited by Tsyn - Raging Tide on
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Comments

  • seitori
    seitori Posts: 1,328 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I say yes to Pury-p....

    Though it should be nerfed some ~ to limit its Way Too overblown Godmode tendencies....b:thanks
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Yes to Purify:

    -Allows for "lucky saves"
    -Destroys stunlocks that require damage
    -20v1 Adroit Style in NW

    These three points all greatly decrease the skill required in this game and emphasize more on luck and gears.

    Game should be skill based, and not luck or gear based.

    I am heavily against purify. I will state all my points all over again if need be.
    Personally, I rather like the challenge of Purify Proc while 1v1sing S3 casters. The random breaking of my skill sequences forces me to think of counters and plan Bs. While some people may not find this enjoyable, I do.

    What if your life depended on a successful stun/sleep/seal? All they have to do is get lucky and you're done. =/ Not very skill oriented.

    If they predicted that ill stun and fortified then sure. But right now it makes the game very luck based.
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  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I'm all for anything that helps nerf sins into the ground.
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  • HrunsPanda - Archosaur
    HrunsPanda - Archosaur Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    We can like it or dislike it, just like APS where i think i would prefer a cap of 3.33.

    But after people have charged their credid cards to get it, there is no way pwi is gonna take it away from them. Only thing you can hope for is something else overpowered to counter it again.
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I'm all for anything that helps nerf sins into the ground.

    Pretty sure that purify proc does not state "Only works against Assassins"
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  • HrunsPanda - Archosaur
    HrunsPanda - Archosaur Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Pretty sure that purify proc does not state "Only works against Assassins"

    That would be a damn good idea though ! b:laugh
  • Deadalus - Harshlands
    Deadalus - Harshlands Posts: 546 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I saw a few casters handling 20v1 or 20v2 just fine doing it like Adroit, digging the flag with IG and faceroll to the goal.
    When you have the HP pool and the DEF for it, NOTHING can stop you.

    Its not like an Apo pill, where you still can be stopped (when it endet ofc and its on CD) but with this Puri Spell, you just need this buff and when you have it, you just run run run with max speed noone can reach unless with Holy Path. Use it 2 times (average genie) and you might see the casters wobling a/ss reaching the goal just fne and laughing there.

    Well im against removing it, but nerf it should be the way to go.
    Id say, remove either the speedbuff or the immune to debuffs thing.
    Purify should stay, its an Purify spell, so yea its supposed to do that.

    either way, i think, that nothing will happen and that meelee classes get sth more powerful to stop them (Advanced GoF? Advanced Purge? Maybe a mix of both LOL) who knows.
  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Tbh, I think the way purify should work is this:

    When purify works it should:

    -Remove movement-related debuffs, only. So, if purify procs it will let you move free again, but if you were amped in any way, the caster would retain that status.

    -No increase to speed: I think the increase in speed is what makes purify an overkiller, and yeah makes the bad players good, and good ones unstoppable.

    Edit: But then again...

    Is not imposible to stop a r9-3 caster. Ofc to stop them you will need to match the caster in gear 1st, and then outsmart them. Last NW, half of my squad, which includes Adroit, dc'ed and entered to another different nation. We met again later, but to fight... That was the best NW I've had so far. The other half of my squad, leaded by Adroit fought agains us. We had like 4-5 fights, and Adroit only won one. This was mainly because my friend, who is a sin, was stun-locking him the whole war. My friend didn't kill Adroit many times, but he was just not letting him play.

    So, like it or not, this game has been, and will always be really gear depedant. Unfortunately, some people, like in real life, are really rich, and most are middle class. So, there will always be a few who are very op.

    If everyone had the same gear, we wouldn't probably have this disbalance, and 20vs1 rollings. Imagine if 20 full rank9-3s shooted all at the same time agains just one r9-3. I think his charm wouldn't even tick.

    Therefore, technically purify effect is not op. The problem that we have really, is the same problem we have always had: a few really op people, and a lot of average power people. So, for this reasons I wouldn't agree about changing purify effect.
  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Really, this is mostly a problem for Nation Wars.
    If the speed buff is removed, at least a carrier with that ability wouldn't be able to get a lot of distance out of it. The purify itself and the short anti-stun is more than enough if the stun-lock break is something that R9.3s wants to keep.
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  • HrunsPanda - Archosaur
    HrunsPanda - Archosaur Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    just give us mellees purify too :)
  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It's obvious that in the future, melees will get a new proc called Magnet (for lack of better term) and pull anyone in as they are attack, briefly stunning the target while the melee user can pull off some attack, thus balancing out Purify Spell.


    Also, melees will still have GoF.


    Yay for wishing thinking, and maybe thru the miracle of the butterfly effect, this will give the CN devs ideas. b:avoid
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  • U_Sasuke - Sanctuary
    U_Sasuke - Sanctuary Posts: 643 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    u guys are missing the point. although i do agree purify is OP and broken, but it was added to the game for a certain reason...and that is thanks to OP class (Sin).

    although they should've nerfed sin's forever lasting control skills, and that tidal, instead of doing that they boosted arcanes classes which made the game even more broken now. u guys may try to argue 'oh sins are ez i kill them lalala', no just shut up and go learn and play vs good people then if u have no idea how broken sins are. there is no possible way to kill them in group pk or 1on1, especially sage, with that OP tidal which leaves all classes handicap vs them and let them control u 24/7 instead. if u try to go for killing when their tidal is down, oh here is 91+ genie and apo readyyy and force stealth roflcopter away.

    although i do agree purify spell proc is broken, but i'm glad its implanted. cuz casters can't kill end-game sins, now they can't kill us either JeJe.
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    its just fine exactly the way it is.

    is anyone surprised this is a sin-made thread? if you dont have a high DPH output, you should be trying to immobilize (AND IMMOBILIZE ONLY) a target that has purify.

    its not like the proc is that amazing, its that it is that amazing against morons who cant think past "that is target, i must DD target, i am DD"

    if you can coordinate a couple high damage skills on the purifyable target at the same time, purify wont stop it from dropping.

    damage and purges cant be purified. the concept is not complicated, the problem is the thought process is too simple.
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  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I highly doubt sins are the class that is affected by this the most.
    Did you know debuffs can be purified? How are you going to do high damage if you can't debuff your target?
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  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Yes to Purify:

    -Gives casters survivability that they previously may have lacked Really, do casters really need that extra survivalability? They have at least 2 things going on for them before most even get touch by an ha user. They easily have the ability to really pwn the snot out of ha users even bms with their marrows are barely a match to withstand a little, every single caster can easily atttack from any position, and in mass pvp, that gives them another advntage to kill before they're even reached.hard hits + long range coming from anywhere = very painful/dead ha users unless they're extremely well prepared or insanely weell-geared. They do NOT need something to make them so much harder to kill. Blademasters so suffer the most for these facts too, since they by far have the worse shields for what they have to contend with EVERY time they hit someone. (barbs have their haxed shields, seekers their def lvls + range attacks, and sins have their stealth + a way easier time killing other ppl especially with their ability to get chi. I realize bms have their marrows but they are rather rubbish until they get TRUE end game gear.) [not to mention bms have to deal with attacks from melee ppl as well as magic ppl... if they dont hae apo or god-like gear they will get pwnt no matter what skills they are using. ESPECIALLY if uncharmed.] Blademasters are arguabbly the most disadvantaged class (IN NW) because of those reasons, yes we have the ability to stunlock but the purify skill makes it so that its nigh impossible to do that. So now bms have neither a real viable way to survive or kill. its the only class that cant really survive in mass pvp (without some heavy apo/charm use, or even really kill other classes in similair gear with ease. Aka the only class that it still takes skill to play.

    -Gives casters greater mobility (as opposed to melee character speed buffs) again do they really need the ability to run and hit ha users more? They hit hard enough, and if they can just run away turn around and conitnue the pwnage hits... that just makes it so much easier for them to kill ha users

    -Allows for "lucky saves" As others have pointed out, is that really needed? There enough things in this game taking away from the argument that skill truimphs gear in this game. (its getting harder to argue that pwi in the end is balanced, sure some say it is but a lot are saying its highly imbalanced)

    -Destroys stunlocks that require damage how else are ha users REALLY going to keep you from pwning the snot out of them? I realize there is silence, and a few other hidden gems, but nothing quite holds water to stunlocking.

    -Anti APS users no argument for that one, albeit its usually only sins that aps in pvp these days.

    -20v1 Adroit Style in NW And, the strong want to remain the strong, I get that, but I so do not agree with that mentality.

    I know its all been pretty much covered by others to quite an extent but meh, the strong, hate it when valid arguments threaten to alter their uberness, rather make them weaker, they naturally defend to try and keep their uberness from wavering.

    I do agree that perhaps changing the purify skill would make it not so oped, like perhaps removing the speed increase would help a LOT. Perhaps even removing the... 'remove debuff' effect as well, since it can be annoying to get to a magic user in the first place with how hard they hit.
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  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I just don't want a flag-carrier to be able to get free speed buffs from trying to take them down.

    Keep the speed buff otherwise. I don't care.
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  • Kremia - Lost City
    Kremia - Lost City Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    -20v1 Adroit Style in NW

    I havent seen Adroit soloing tw by pulling a cata to the enemy base...
    i think everyone is focusing just too much on nw, yeah purify is op while having a flag so casters own in nw.
    Remember nirvana? only aps chars were able to do it and everyone qq'ed about how melee classes were the only ones getting profit from it.
    We already had the "melee owning" period, now casters are popular till pw **** it again, maybe they'll put chance to stun and purge on aps weps?
    Now sit down, get some cereal and wait till pw feels like making melee chars dominating again
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  • NigeIus - Dreamweaver
    NigeIus - Dreamweaver Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I havent seen Adroit soloing tw by pulling a cata to the enemy base...
    i think everyone is focusing just too much on nw, yeah purify is op while having a flag so casters own in nw.
    Remember nirvana? only aps chars were able to do it and everyone qq'ed about how melee classes were the only ones getting profit from it.
    We already had the "melee owning" period, now casters are popular till pw **** it again, maybe they'll put chance to stun and purge on aps weps?
    Now sit down, get some cereal and wait till pw feels like making melee chars dominating again

    u are comparing pve wiht pvp. thats ur first mistake. even if i consider that caster nirvana came too late. they had to bring it way earlier.

    then about melee owning pvp, i guess u meant sins. why u put barbs+bms in the same bag? adn tbh i think it was couse sins could farm more, get more coins and get better builds. nowdays they can do that too. and mostly all good casters have a good sin to farm wiht too. if u didnt make a toon to farm then thast ur problem.

    about this topic, i consider that the proc rate should be decreased or as some1 said, make the purify able to clean stuns but not amps debuffs. couse doing that u are just making a range class able to not get ampfied while the rest of mortals are ampfied by any1. or perhaps they should change the purify mechanic. to proc when u hit and not when u get hit. that would be good too.

    my 2 cents
  • Tsyn - Raging Tide
    Tsyn - Raging Tide Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    a. I actually like Azura's idea about only purifying movement-related debuffs. However, this would require extensive recoding on PWE's part, and therefore is not a viable solution. (Or maybe not. We'll see).

    b. I put those things in the Pro-Purify section because they're genuine reasons to keep Purify. (For the casters, that is). Many of them are in the Con section.

    c.
    I havent seen Adroit soloing tw by pulling a cata to the enemy base...
    Interesting idea, I'll get some friends working on that <_<
    Might have a friend run in circles during TW while doing that, so that they don't get range out of cata.

    d.
    We already had the "melee owning" period, now casters are popular till pw **** it again, maybe they'll put chance to stun and purge on aps weps?
    Now sit down, get some cereal and wait till pw feels like making melee chars dominating again
    The thing is, with PWE, we always have an overcompensation of some sort. i.e: TB wings too small > instantly double the size of all OTHER wings. Abuse of Cancel Casting>Chi disappearance glitch on failed skills.
    For once, I'd like to see PWE actually balance something. They can keep trying to patch their quilt of a game, sure, but if eventually the quilt becomes too heavy and uncomfortable to wear. Purify might be an easy fix, and we could be very close to balance in the 1st time in a long time.

    e. I'm a DPH user that puts the corresponding anti-elemental genie skill on before a 1v1 with a caster. That's why I don't Purify as much, I guess. XD

    f. Forgot to add this on. Yes, Purify is OP against multiple DDs. Yes, it can be countered by an experienced DPH squad that communicates. Yes, I have seen Purify users die to such an instance.

    Unfortunately, most people in NW AREN'T PvP-experienced, so you have dozens of the innocently ignorant people attacking with their fabulous TT90 weapon. That would be a reason why we see Purify Proc is closer to balance in PvP (and to a lesser extent, TW) than in NW.
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  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    How can PvE be even remotely compared to PvP?
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  • Tsyn - Raging Tide
    Tsyn - Raging Tide Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I address TT3-x bosses as S3 barbs who don't stun very often and give high BP returns.
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  • NigeIus - Dreamweaver
    NigeIus - Dreamweaver Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    How come PvE be even remotely compared to PvP?
    i dont know, ppl from lost city saying pve=pvp... and they are in a pvp server...sooo...idk ask them.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I havent seen Adroit soloing tw by pulling a cata to the enemy base...
    i think everyone is focusing just too much on nw, yeah purify is op while having a flag so casters own in nw.
    Remember nirvana? only aps chars were able to do it and everyone qq'ed about how melee classes were the only ones getting profit from it.
    We already had the "melee owning" period, now casters are popular till pw **** it again, maybe they'll put chance to stun and purge on aps weps?
    Now sit down, get some cereal and wait till pw feels like making melee chars dominating again

    "You must have a minimum of 3.33 APS to enter this instance. Please try again when you have reached the required APS."

    Why don't I remember seeing that?

    I still don't get why people don't seem to understand that while the APS mechanic was broken mid-game, at end game with R9 and proper genies it become much less of a threat, even less when Morai skills to balance things out became available. Even less when Fortification Droughts became available. Purify Spell is far stronger than APS was given that the users sacrifice no amount of defense, nor do they have to even be able to attack to make use of it.

    The only thing casters have done is complain about the old days when "APS was OP". That's the ONLY excuse I've seen as to why Purify Spell should be around. They don't even make an argument as to why it's not unbalanced. So here's what I propose, state your case as to why it's balanced as it stands now. Do not bring up the past, because I'm getting sick and tired of repeating that at end game APS wasn't OP assuming equal gears and a similar skill level. When you can actually give a reason as to why the proc is balanced then maybe, just MAYBE we can take you seriously. Until then, however, shutup. Just shutup. You aren't helping your case by crying about the old days and saying APS was OP because it wasn't. In PvE? Yeah, it's great, and of course people will want it because if you spend that much on gear you don't want to have people who spent less mooch off of you. In PvP? Nope. It was a question of gear > skill, because let's face it, a +10 weapon tears through +5 gear. The same is true these days as well.

    Oh, and let's not forget about the caster Nirvana glitch, suddenly every caster and their mother was too good for regular Nirvana. Why? Because they're just as greedy as they try to make the APSers out to be.

    So yeah, let's hear it. How is Purify Spell balanced?
  • Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver
    Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver Posts: 461 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I will agree that the purify seems a little ridiculous, but only in the front of when a caster with said purify is running the flag in NW. Outside of NW I haven't seen any complaints about it.
    So i voted to keep the purify, but with some kind of modification such as a reduction or removal of the speed buff, if possible to only apply it to NW.
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  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Personally, Purify Spell isn't that bad of a nuisance to me, probably because if they run, I just go Tiger/Panda Form and run towards them since Barbs get a speed boost.

    Plus, that's assuming it procs too.
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  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I will agree that the purify seems a little ridiculous, but only in the front of when a caster with said purify is running the flag in NW. Outside of NW I haven't seen any complaints about it.
    So i voted to keep the purify, but with some kind of modification such as a reduction or removal of the speed buff, if possible to only apply it to NW.

    NAtion wars is definitely the only reason we are even remotely discussing the balance issues in game, whether it be a skill on a weapon, or problems with a specific class. (it really is EXTREMELY SAD and REALLY FRUSTRATING that i can often live 10x longer with the EXACT same gear and amount of prepation on my barb and seeker than I can on a blademaster. (I run apoless and uncharmed on ALL of my chars for nw) EDIT: I realize if I started doing this on my bm I would increase its survivablitiy significantly, but if I did that I would just put the charms/apo on the seeker/barb long before I would put it on the bm, as it would increase their odds just as much as the bm, which would mean I would still be stuck in the same boat as I was before. I feel I MUST streess this... I am NOT saying that a bm can't kill or survive, I am just saying that they are by far the worse at doing so with what they have to contend with. (see my previous post)

    Nw would so have all of its rants removed/reduced to almost nothing if EVERY single player got the exact same amount of tokens as the next person REGARDLESS of their gear/skill. (I so can NOT see that happening at all, no one would trully like it, albeit people wouuld indeed accept it.)


    Also one more thing.. zanryu I so had to reread your post a few times... so your sayins sins/bms had to sacrifice a lot to get full potential out of aps? If so that is OH SO true! Casters are definitely 100% benefiting from the opedness of this weapon skill. Granted that casters too have to spend a lot of money to get some real use out of it, but still even earlyish end game they are still real hard to take down but to add a effect like this.... bye bye ha users.... and if you add in their hard as hell hits on ha users... its downright scary to many ha users. (i think thats why we often only see aa/la users in nw anymore these days... I know there is indeed still a few ha users but aa/la users so rule the field in nw.)

    People still gripe about this weapon skill in tw,, but its less furious due to the fact I listed above... about tokens. (people so want tokens and who can blame them? Not I.)
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  • Tsyn - Raging Tide
    Tsyn - Raging Tide Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    APS can no longer be a viable reason to use Purify spell. The age of R9 2.86 died out a long time ago. For evidence:

    http://i50.tinypic.com/n17688.png

    (That barb is so pro. Dat Ribstrke icon kekkekekeke)

    However, the reason Purify proc (in this case, for NW) is being so frustrating is that sometimes, aps-like conditions are created.
    Sure, you can get 1 sin 5apsing a caster. But you can also have 5 people attacking once within a second. Same effect.

    When you apply this to a 20v1 NW... that's basically hoping that Purify proc won't work when the overall attacking group is 20aps.
    Forever overlooked.
    Forever forgotten.
    Forever alone.

    This is a good thing. People don't notice me, and they don't notice the knife whistling towards their throat.
  • XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary
    XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary Posts: 1,173 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    its not like the proc is that amazing, its that it is that amazing against morons who cant think past "that is target, i must DD target, i am DD"

    I mostly agree with this statement. As I stated in the other thread that was basically this same question but without the poll, you CAN circumvent this. My NW squad came up against Scuttlebutt's in NW a couple weeks ago. Scuttlebutt is an r9r3 wizard and is pretty well geared. Here's the video Dan made:
    Yay pretty shiny moving pixels

    Yes, the purify spell proc is hard to deal with, but can be done. You will notice that several times when scuttle not only had the flag but was supported, we still managed to kill him several times. You just need comparable gear and coordination, rather than noobs facerolling.

    Is it broken that a wizard gives us that much trouble, yes. Is it impossible to stop, no.

    Also, if you have bms with blade hurl or whatever the hell it's called, removing weapon removes the purify spell effect. Blade hurl and go at it.
    xSonOfCircex-105/103/102 Sage Wiz
    DrakeEmpress-101/102/103 Sage Cleric
    Gaygasm-101/101/101 Sage Stormbringer

    Because I can't stand playing melee classes
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    NAtion wars is definitely the only reason we are even remotely discussing the balance issues in game, whether it be a skill on a weapon, or problems with a specific class. (it really is EXTREMELY SAD and REALLY FRUSTRATING that i can often live 10x longer with the EXACT same gear and amount of prepation on my barb and seeker than I can on a blademaster. (I run apoless and uncharmed on ALL of my chars for nw) EDIT: I realize if I started doing this on my bm I would increase its survivablitiy significantly, but if I did that I would just put the charms/apo on the seeker/barb long before I would put it on the bm, as it would increase their odds just as much as the bm, which would mean I would still be stuck in the same boat as I was before. I feel I MUST streess this... I am NOT saying that a bm can't kill or survive, I am just saying that they are by far the worse at doing so with what they have to contend with. (see my previous post)

    Nw would so have all of its rants removed/reduced to almost nothing if EVERY single player got the exact same amount of tokens as the next person REGARDLESS of their gear/skill. (I so can NOT see that happening at all, no one would trully like it, albeit people wouuld indeed accept it.)


    Also one more thing.. zanryu I so had to reread your post a few times... so your sayins sins/bms had to sacrifice a lot to get full potential out of aps? If so that is OH SO true! Casters are definitely 100% benefiting from the opedness of this weapon skill. Granted that casters too have to spend a lot of money to get some real use out of it, but still even earlyish end game they are still real hard to take down but to add a effect like this.... bye bye ha users.... and if you add in their hard as hell hits on ha users... its downright scary to many ha users. (i think thats why we often only see aa/la users in nw anymore these days... I know there is indeed still a few ha users but aa/la users so rule the field in nw.)

    People still gripe about this weapon skill in tw,, but its less furious due to the fact I listed above... about tokens. (people so want tokens and who can blame them? Not I.)

    That's exactly what I was saying. Casters go full R9, and sacrifice no potential defense of offense. Melee (BMs/Sins mostly) who use APS sets are sacrificing a large amount of defense in order to increase their offensive potential on a single target. Sure, it allows them to kill faster, but it makes them incredibly open to people packing a large amount of attack levels, such as R9 users. It was a double-edged sword of sorts.
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    That's exactly what I was saying. Casters go full R9, and sacrifice no potential defense of offense. Melee (BMs/Sins mostly) who use APS sets are sacrificing a large amount of defense in order to increase their offensive potential on a single target. Sure, it allows them to kill faster, but it makes them incredibly open to people packing a large amount of attack levels, such as R9 users. It was a double-edged sword of sorts.

    indeed very true every single bit of your statment, seems casters really want the ability to survive forever and this skill so helps them do that in more ways than one ALBEIT it's mainly happening in nw from my knowledge and also kill very easily, while ha users struggle to do either... specifically bms. (Even when i had some aps gear on my barb it still survived better than the bm. (still was using the exact same gear/apoless/charmless then too.)
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
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