Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

marvinhuddleston wrote: »

The finale caster base weapon is a lvl 13 weapon with the same purify proc . Can a toon in lvl 13 gear win a 20 v 1 ? No .....So what was it that allowed that one caster to beat twenty ? The one caster is a Lvl 105 , wearing full Rank 9 3rd cast , all + 12 , with full steady jades of defense . I guess that caster has'nt heard that he was supposed to be easy to kill .

Wow you misinterpret me again, which I guess is just as much my fault as it is yours.

I don't even know where to begin to argue against your argument.

Our definition of 'easy' to kill seems to be differing, which is fine, but I still do not think he, nor anyone else should be soloing 20 vs 1 fights that often, the purify proc allows him to do it often, and often allows him/others like him to escape situations where they would of otherwise died. If the purify proc wasn't helping them do this, the 20 vs 1 would happen far less frequently, and then and only then would I agree with his stance that it was a gear difference/lack of knowledge/specific skills.

I get it the r93r/+12/JOSD do not forget the ornaments/rings highly refined seriously adds to the defenses of every class. all of that really allow certain people to pull off extraordinary feats in CERTAIN situations, it still should NOT allow them/anyone else with similar gears to pull it off as often as casters do.

Anyways back in circles we go, I am sure my points will get interpreted again for your all's benefit, that is fine you all go right ahead, keep on trying to 'rationalize' keeping this prco that is arguably broken.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

we die easy to you

Nope. A full +12 josd sin/bm/barb that is played by a competent player is incredibly difficult to kill. It seems to me that comments like yours can only come from somebody that is undergeared or noob, and either way you really have no business talking about end game pvp.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Nope. A full +12 josd sin/bm/barb that is played by a competent player is incredibly difficult to kill. It seems to me that comments like yours can only come from somebody that is undergeared or noob, and either way you really have no business talking about end game pvp.

You really love to jump on one thing... if you read my whole post you would see I wasnt talking about all things in game.

Besides you yourself said that a r93r+12 bm could only hit you for 1.3k per hit granted you did say it was an estimate, still that is far from... easy. It would take us 15-20ish hits to kill a caster like that. I do not know how hard you hit us but I wouldn't doubt if it was half that or lower.


Again get of of your high horse there are times where you do insanely awesome things with the purify proc, that you would NOT be able to do without the proc.

Breannak - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sweetiebot please analyze this thread.

SweetieBot has finished reading the thread: Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!!

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This took me 22.5 s to finish

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You really love to jump on one thing... if you read my whole post you would see I wasnt talking about all things in game.

Besides you yourself said that a r93r+12 bm could only hit you for 1.3k per hit granted you did say it was an estimate, still that is far from... easy. It would take us 15-20ish hits to kill a caster like that. I do not know how hard you hit us but I wouldn't doubt if it was half that or lower.


Again get of of your high horse there are times where you do insanely awesome things with the purify proc, that you would NOT be able to do without the proc.

1. I have never said it should be easy for a bm to kill me.. that is what you have asserted.
2. You apparently concede the point that bms/melee are difficult to kill at end game.
3. Yeah purify does some cool stuff, as does SB and GOF. Just because something is useful doesn't mean it is overpowered.

Purify spell should have a cooldown to prevent situations where it has 20 chances to proc per second.
That is the situation where it is broken.
That's all there is to say.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

And a single GOF proc could hit 100+ people if they were grouped nicely enough, which is just as true as your post and equally not an argument about how the proc balances with the rest of the game.

GoFs triggering rate doesn't have its odds increased by the amount of targets around it though o_o
and as said before, it does have some delay in the form of the "cooldown" between skill usage.

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

That would make me double dependent on my peers.

First I'm dependent on them to not use any damage dealing skills on my enemies with purify unless their dph is high enough to warrant it;

Now I'm also dependent on them being stupid enough to all stand within 6 meters of each other to receive equivalent effect (in your scenario)

But that still wouldn't be the same.
Mine would proc only once on multiple targets.
Yours could potentially at maximum proc 20 times in a single second, also affecting however many people you were fighting at the time.

Pre-rebuttal: i believe you said once that you don't really benefit from procs happening at rapid interval.

1.) You aren't immune to all debuffs, just those that effect movement directly after a proc, so every additional proc at whatever interval can remove those again.

2.) Every refreshing of the proc increases duration of the buffs you receive.

Anyway, i don't want to get sucked back into this if i can help it.

The purify spell proc makes opponents dependent on the inaction of players with inferior gear, because the great majority of their actions would assist the wielder.

It is the only proc which CAN trigger 20 times per second

It needs a cooldown for balance.

You have said many times that it has a chance to proc "20 times a second" without establishing how that is an issue. If I got hit 20 times in a second from equally geared players (you know where the concept of balance comes in), I'd just die regardless if I got a proc or not. Also, being that spirit blackhole has a chance to proc on each target it hits independently.. it could potentially proc hundreds of times simultaneously in ea barrage or something. Surely you recognize this is the EXACT same "argument" you are using to say purify is op.. so assuming you have an interest in being consistent.. I'd have to assume you also have a problem with spirit blackhole (and hey.. aps with GOF can proc 5 times per second, that seems a little high to me, how about a CD for that too?)

Adroit videos are bad examples.

1. that's not the common purify user
2. the opponets are uncommonly bad

If you look closely you will see that the majority of noobs getting pawned in many of them aren't even g16n3. I am frankly surprised to see so many players against him/her that are so undergeared. In any given NW on dreamweaver you should expect atleast 5+ of the players to be r93 and none using g15 and under.

Yeah purify has a chance to proc highly increased if 20 people hit you at once-highly unlikely in nw for all 20 to be grouped-it is usually more like 10. At some point I suspect the average players gear will get good enough that 10+ players scoring a hit in a single second is going to hurt very bad even with josd and 20+k life. On dreamweaver your likely to die if you have 10+ on you regardless of purify.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There is no doubt that the purify proc increases the survival of a caster in arcane armor. It allows casters to do things they otherwise would not do.

The argument is whether that somehow "ruins" the game. I am not convinced it does.

I doubt my attack can get much stronger(I'm missing the final upgrade on the nw tome, better ornament engravings, and my weapon is +11) and I have hit some pretty pimped out bms in nw/tw that I can't really hurt until they have exhausted their skill cool downs/chi/apoth/genie. If I had the armor refines and josd maybe I'd be more tanky but at just +10 and normal gems-I'm not. In certain circumstances perhaps a full pimped arcane could out survive a full pimped out bm, but that situation is not common nor does it necessarily mean the game is broken-only changed.

Yes, Purify does change the game in both pvp and pve, but it doesn't ruin it.

I so non-confrontational posts, that aren't calling out people for their skill 'level'/gear.

Your definitely entitled to your opinion about the proc, as are we all, including adroit.

---

Still I do feel that it has damn near shattered everything a bm could do to possibly kill anyone once they are near. Granted I do admit I am not end game. Still it has ruined the bm class more than any other class for mass pvp, this I feel is apparent regardless of the gear differences. (I also realize adroit will continue to use the 'your not end game you have no place being in the convo for balance' well he can have that opinion, even if it may be considered a weak argument by some people.. ergo adroit please don't bother repeating yourself on that again when addressing me/others who have been involved in this thread.) It is however far less noticeable (as I and other have stated) in 1 on 1 fights.

In short it is my opinion that the purify proc has ruined what a bm should be able to do in mass pvp. allies shouldn't be helping your enemy, its basically like them being a 'traitor' no one likes those kind of people unless they are benefiting from the 'betrayal.' (yes it is true that in real wars traitors are very much of a threat, but this is a game, and like no traitor irl, they shouldn't be able to undo the damage once it's already done. (It's basically like a traitor given the 'enemy' information about an attack that has already happened, it would be of no use to the enemy. Instead it's more like this: Attack in progress, allies help, enemy gets the most benefit out of it... in what world does that ever make sense? Sure allies can become enemies but generally they can't undo an attack that has already happened.)

Anyways I am tired of thread, I am sure the devs/whoever tries to balance things out, have pretty much already made up their mind about whether to keep it, change it or do nothing about it, and are either working on a 'change' to balance things back out, or they feel things are balanced already and they aren't doing anything to 'fix' it. In this case only time will truly tell, I doubt anyone's new 'analogy' on the subject will get them to make them go back one way or the other.

Either way you all have fun with the game, and enjoy the proc if it's here to stay as it is. I'll still be here regardless, i'll still have my bm, and will absolutely enjoy it for pve... but mass pvp.. well as I already stated I am already on a new class for that, and will likely be staying there regardless of what changes come to nw specifically.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

allies shouldn't be helping your enemy, its basically like them being a 'traitor'

team killing in fps? friendly fire aoe in various games? even in pwi you could do evil stuff to your teamates/neutral (expel clerics in WBs, sov mana squishies that aoe mobs, hit the fake spawners in fc big room boss).

yes, it changes the game dynamics (=team with more noob players loses).
but that isn't necessarily a bad thing

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and the problem is? that's the definition of a noob, having a negative effect, not not having maxed gear or being slightly less efficient

You clearly lack the intelligence to read and then comprehend. I'm ignoring your future posts, there is no point debating an idiot.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

team killing in fps? friendly fire aoe in various games? even in pwi you could do evil stuff to your teamates/neutral (expel clerics in WBs, sov mana squishies that aoe mobs, hit the fake spawners in fc big room boss).

yes, it changes the game dynamics (=team with more noob players loses).
but that isn't necessarily a bad thing

I don't disagree with what you say, but still it doesn't change the fact that in all games, usually once you do the damage to someone it usually sticks regardless of what others (on your team)/noobs (on your team) do. With the purify proc.... noobs just help those with it get away with an extraordinary amount of things.

Meh I am tired of writing wall of texts, I am not going to bother even trying to further explain the last bit, I am sure it will get misinterpreted/spun to try to keep it as it is, you all go right ahead. I am done arguing about this proc.

My opinion still remains it needs a change, not a complete removal.