Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

MasterPerian - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

I highly doubt people with equal gear get zerk crit for 15k.

+12 vs +10 easily can get zerk critted for 15k please dont tell me GOF is terrible.

MissingNo - Lost City

i doubt any of the higher ups see this thread anyway

heerohex#3018

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

purify will be made less effective at the next content update, where there 2 more types of NW battles will be introduced, neither of which are capture the flag.

Agreed.

MasterPerian - Lost City

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

purify will be made less effective at the next content update, where there 2 more types of NW battles will be introduced, neither of which are capture the flag.

I would love that to happen to be honest im tired to chasing people down on a wizard. b:thanks

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

MissingNo - Lost City wrote: »

i doubt any of the higher ups see this thread anyway

Given how far it's degenerated, I don't see why they would read half of it anyway. I can't imagine there's much new in the last 50 pages that hadn't already been said in one form or another in the first 20 pages.

Plus, the people that matter are in China and have no reason to read our forums.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Mmmm rare, but with the right debuffs it can happen. Seekers with their def lvl transfer debuff thingy and a zc (along probably some genie), or sins with a double/triple spark + genie amps it can happen.

Think he was talking about BMs because it was in contrast to DPS, but if other classes then I am forgetting about ARMAS!

BMs might do it with an amp...but then that's like saying I hit 10k with normal hits (with the right debuffs or 3 spark).

MasterPerian - Lost City wrote: »

+12 vs +10 easily can get zerk critted for 15k please dont tell me GOF is terrible.

GOF isn't terrible but probably necessary for melees to be anything.

marvinhuddleston

The fact that this thread keeps going off in different directions , even with a moderator asking more then once too keep it on the subject only proves that its a dead thread or should be . I'm not asking or demanding for it to be closed , but I am asking that you try and see this subject threw the eyes of a cleric or psychic .. since those are the only two classes without a natural running skill and cant escape . To those two classes the purify proc is a glimmer of hope for balance .

johnvolkan

"No man can stun lock a r9rr caster"

That makes dull and unskilled players kill talented players with ease just for their gears are op.

useless to have Adversity +12 and full +12 sin r9rr gears, you still cant kill a same-geared psy or wizzie just for you cant keep them stunlocked.

Rock - paper - scissors
Heavy <- Caster <- Light

Archer/sin SHOULD have advantage over casters, Casters SHALL have advantage over barb/seeker/bm and those SHALL have advantage over archer/sin.

Stupid devs...

Regenbogen - Lost City

20 people with gear worth less than 250m loose to 1caster with gear worth way more than 5000m because of purify proc...

*sarcasm mode on*
thats so unfair! remove purify asap!
*sarcasm mode off*

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary

johnvolkan wrote: »

"No man can stun lock a r9rr caster"

That makes dull and unskilled players kill talented players with ease just for their gears are op.

useless to have Adversity +12 and full +12 sin r9rr gears, you still cant kill a same-geared psy or wizzie just for you cant keep them stunlocked.

Rock - paper - scissors
Heavy <- Caster <- Light

Archer/sin SHOULD have advantage over casters, Casters SHALL have advantage over barb/seeker/bm and those SHALL have advantage over archer/sin.

Stupid devs...

o.O I'm not sure about other people out there and I know I'm not as end game as possible, but there are sins that can drop me in a couple hits even with r9r3+10 with most of my buffs on. In a 1v1, purify proc isn't OP unless someone is trying to be an aps noob. Generally a full r9r3 sin won't be trying to aps because full r9r3 means no int gear. 1 attack a second isn't likely to cause PS to kick in, at least not all the time. You're gonna have a bigger problem from genie and apoth.

Crazybladema - Harshlands

marvinhuddleston wrote: »

The fact that this thread keeps going off in different directions , even with a moderator asking more then once too keep it on the subject only proves that its a dead thread or should be . I'm not asking or demanding for it to be closed , but I am asking that you try and see this subject threw the eyes of a cleric or psychic .. since those are the only two classes without a natural running skill and cant escape . To those two classes the purify proc is a glimmer of hope for balance .

A cleric and psychic should know how to kite at endgame and shouldn't need purify....

Clerics have seals and more that make kiting easy if you know how to use them

Psys have a slew of stuns/slows and immobilizing skills that make kiting rather easy on them as well. They also have a stun buff, seal buff and black/white voodoo. They have all the control skills and protections in the world.

The fact that you imply that clerics and psys need purify probably stems from a lack of knowledge of how to use these classes. As well as lack of knowledge of the game overall and its mechanics. Maybe as you play and pvp more you will understand what I am talking about.

Purify has even messed up a lot of the roles that bms had at endgame levels and has made yet another broken aspect of the game.

You sound like one of the sins when they said "aps and their class is balanced".

Aps isn't balanced and neither is this proc.b:sweat

rose1111111

MasterPerian - Lost City wrote: »

I would love that to happen to be honest im tired to chasing people down on a wizard. b:thanks

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

20 people with gear worth less than 250m loose to 1caster with gear worth way more than 5000m because of purify proc...


thats so unfair! remove purify asap!

Lol. You two r 2 of the very few casters to agree that purify should be nullified. Poor heavy classes QQQQQQQQ thought i think Regenbogen was trolling....

Aslo I agree that bm role is kinda worthless now with purify spell... stun dragons?? not anymore. How about stun, Blade tornado? But BT hits in intervals.. during which your targets can escape.

First off every mage out there has fortify (some got badge also) on their genie so u cant even stun them to begin with. then when u stun them and try to DD booom, purify.. then they run away. Then when u catch up to them...boom purify...then they run again...rinse and repeat. ofc u can say:

HA<<AA<<LA, but considering the number of AA classes... u can see how foked up HA got it. QQQQQQ
And as for god of frenzy.... please.. the only class that has full dd that uses that is sin.. barb/bm/seeker barely hits for anything unless is that lucky zerk-crit that happens once in a blue moon.

im a bm and I quit because of purify spell. I guess lots of people quit/re-surface with each update, so i guess the numbers balance out.

Avada Kedavra>>>>>>>>>>>>>Purify spell

Adroit - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Think he was talking about BMs because it was in contrast to DPS, but if other classes then I am forgetting about ARMAS!

BMs might do it with an amp...but then that's like saying I hit 10k with normal hits (with the right debuffs or 3 spark).



GOF isn't terrible but probably necessary for melees to be anything.

Oh, if we were talking about bms.. then you were probably right, I don't recall ever being hit by a bm for 15k. I was just 1v1ing a r9rr full +12 vit stone bm yesterday, with dex build he was hitting me around 1k non crit.. he got tired of that and restatted to full str and began hitting me about 1.3k or so (both these values are guesstimates, didn't actually average all the hits I was taking). For anyone that is curious, he decided he liked the dex build more for the extra crit and whatnot.. the damage increase on str build just wasn't enough to justify it. Even with dragons a 15k hit would be out of the question, would probably need a triple spark -> cloud -> dragons -> big skill w/ zc to get in that range.

edit: also at the post above me, "Lol. You two r 2 of the very few casters to agree that purify should be nullified. Poor heavy classes QQQQQQQQ thought i think Regenbogen was trolling...." neither of them are arguing for purify to be "nullified". Lmao

MasterPerian - Lost City

rose1111111 wrote: »

Lol. You two r 2 of the very few casters to agree that purify should be nullified. Poor heavy classes QQQQQQQQ thought i think Regenbogen was trolling....

No you misunderstood me I meant that new content map should not favor running meaning i do less and you all come to me for giant nuke

rose1111111 wrote: »

And as for god of frenzy.... please.. the only class that has full dd that uses that is sin.. barb/bm/seeker barely hits for anything unless is that lucky zerk-crit that happens once in a blue moon.

you have no idea how hard some of those guys at end game hit

Crazybladema - Harshlands

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Oh, if we were talking about bms.. then you were probably right, I don't recall ever being hit by a bm for 15k. I was just 1v1ing a r9rr full +12 vit stone bm yesterday, with dex build he was hitting me around 1k non crit.. he got tired of that and restatted to full str and began hitting me about 1.3k or so (both these values are guesstimates, didn't actually average all the hits I was taking). For anyone that is curious, he decided he liked the dex build more for the extra crit and whatnot.. the damage increase on str build just wasn't enough to justify it. Even with dragons a 15k hit would be out of the question, would probably need a triple spark -> cloud -> dragons -> big skill w/ zc to get in that range.

edit: also at the post above me, "Lol. You two r 2 of the very few casters to agree that purify should be nullified. Poor heavy classes QQQQQQQQ thought i think Regenbogen was trolling...." neither of them are arguing for purify to be "nullified". Lmao

That would be because bms are a support class. They dont exactly hit "hard" so as a class need their own amps "dg, glacial spike ect." to be effective.

Also because of the low dammage many bms may carry a purge pole to get rid of buffs.

Anyways though that's a perfect example of why purify needs to be modified.

Bms and other classes rely on stuns and control skills especially in mass pvp. Purify in many ways nulifies group efforts especially when we are talking about (4-6 sized squad with r8, nirvy and g16 nirvy at +5,+7 refines) average geared people.

At the core of a group effort to take down very well geared players are bms. This is because all the stuns of the class has and Dg. But because (4-6) people attack a caster all at once will make the purify proc a lot. It would result in a very well geared caster (+10 refines, good shards) to just holy path around killing the entire squad.

What kinda puts me off if that I can no longer provide the necessary support to take down such a caster because of the proc.

Because if that proc wasnt in place. An averaged geared group people can take down a r9rr +10 caster (with good sharding too). Assuming they knew what they were doing.

Thats why its bad.

Its too bad though the devs or whatever will probably do nothing for this issue. I wish they would but, enjoy abusing the proc b:surrender

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

20 people with gear worth less than 250m loose to 1caster with gear worth way more than 5000m because of purify proc...

*sarcasm mode on*
thats so unfair! remove purify asap!
*sarcasm mode off*

^This.. all QQ''rs read please b:cute

Gear up or shut up kthxbye b:thanks

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Yup, my R9r3 only costed me about 250m. I'm ballin'

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yup, my R9r3 only costed me about 250m. I'm ballin'

LOL, you know damn well what i ment, besides your not truely end game geared yet are you? If i was in your position id be a lil annoyed too tbh. To be almost there to truely compete and yet not.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

LOL, you know damn well what i ment, besides your not truely end game geared yet are you? If i was in your position id be a lil annoyed too tbh. To be almost there to truely compete and yet not.

That's what hard work is for. Though odds are I'll leave this game before getting +12s or Jades b:avoid

marvinhuddleston

To say that clerics and psychics have stun and slow skills doesnt change anything , bms have those skills as well . The fact still remains , clerics and psychics have no running skills . Period .. Every other class can just run them into the ground until their apo and genie are on cooldown and kill them . There is no balance and purify proc is the closest thing .

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

marvinhuddleston wrote: »

To say that clerics and psychics have stun and slow skills doesnt change anything , bms have those skills as well . The fact still remains , clerics and psychics have no running skills . Period .. Every other class can just run them into the ground until their apo and genie are on cooldown and kill them . There is no balance and purify proc is the closest thing .

Closest thing to balance?

I do not see how that is anything close to balance. (Balance is NOT defined as something that gives one class extraordinary advantages over others.)

Casters have the advantage and own at a distance, and are suppose to die rather easily once they are gotten too. The latter seems to happen a lot less than the former, which in some ways is definitely thanks to the state of the game/casters generally are a lot smarter than melee people, which made them think long before any/most melees to make their weaknesses less apparent. I can't think of a single time where I witnessed an lvl 100 caster with decent gears/refines actually get one shot by a melee person. (I am not saying it doesn't happen, but I for one haven't seen it happen at all.)

EDIT:

(wiki) wrote:

In game design, balance is the concept and the practice of tuning a game's rules, usually with the goal of preventing any of its component systems from being ineffective or otherwise undesirable when compared to their peers. An unbalanced system represents wasted development resources at the very least, and at worst can undermine the game's entire ruleset by making important roles or tasks impossible to perform.

Blademasters ability to 'stunlock' people severely hindered by group pvp/the purify proc. As for the impossible part I think its safe to say its nigh impossible to lock down certain casters, albeit in uncommon circumstances, still though there has been numerous times where a caster has done something that really should be rather impossible, unless the difference in gear is TRULY on their side. I.E no lvl 100's/the few 100's that are there is... are in truly horrible gear. (I don't see this really being the case in every single 20 vs 1 that I have seen casters pull off, maybe in a few but definitely not all.) Melee classes are undesirable to be played in pvp/mass pvp, for several reasons, and the purify weapon proc is just another thing to add to that list as to why a majority of melees have become a caster/ranged class. Now don't get me wrong I realize there is still melee classes in nw, but I don't see them anywhere near as often as a caster/ranged class., and granted there is indeed far fewer melee classes in game period compared to caster/range classes, but still its clear people favor caster classes for pvp, especially in nw. (seekers I see more than any other 'melee' but to be fair they are more ranged then melee in pvp.)

EDIT 2: The definition of balance is what happened with aps, and you know what the devs saw fit to try to balance things out as best as they could. (A majority of the changes were indeed for pve, there was also even a small nerf to what aps did, albeit it was a rather minimal one which actually did little to truly nerf it. It still has it's uses but it is far less noticeable these days. (Sure some people are still close minded and wont invite certain classes for this or that, but that just depends on who is doing the inviting, I for one have gotten to where I have to say 'all classes welcome' when forming a bh squad to get a blue wall of spam, but really any/all classes more then suffice for pve instances. Again it just depends on the person, not the instance.)

As for the psy/cleric bit... they may not have any 'running' skill but their other abilities more then make up for their lack of running ability. (They aren't all that easy to take down, even with a stunlock.) Adding the purify proc, pretty much has allowed casters to become the undisputed kings/queens of group pvp, which is quite annoying. It really is no wonder why there are so many casters in nw these days.

Vinat - Sanctuary

Leave it as it is.

Demanding a nerf for every little thing that doesn't directly benefit YOU as an individual or a specific class is selfish. There are quite a few "broken features" in the game that have become part of its foundation, like APS and permaspark. Some would also argue that rank 9 itself is also a game-breaking feature. Certainly it disrupts the balance. But people DID and still do QQ about it, so I guess it's ok to complain, but don't start petitions to nerf the little bit of benefit that a small handful of rich mages can even afford or make use of.

Crazybladema - Harshlands

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

Leave it as it is.

Demanding a nerf for every little thing that doesn't directly benefit YOU as an individual or a specific class is selfish. There are quite a few "broken features" in the game that have become part of its foundation, like APS and permaspark. Some would also argue that rank 9 itself is also a game-breaking feature. Certainly it disrupts the balance. But people DID and still do QQ about it, so I guess it's ok to complain, but don't start petitions to nerf the little bit of benefit that a small handful of rich mages can even afford or make use of.

I agree with some of this.

Nevertheless, purify just doesn't affect bms, it affects many people and its not selfish to ask for a nerf to that end. However, this is just a game so it may very well be better to "leave it as is".

This will be my final post towards this end.

Its sad to see how the game has gone and its no longer worth any serious effort or time on my part.

Adroit - Lost City

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Casters have the advantage and own at a distance, and are suppose to die rather easily once they are gotten too.

lolz, basically you just want easy mode in pk vs casters.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

lolz, basically you just want easy mode in pk vs casters.

No I don't I just dont want to have to hit you 20+ freaking times risking a purify proc to happen for you to get away from me, allowing you to run away and continue to hit me for however much you hit end game melee ppl for, there is a big difference in the damage you do, and the damage we do, there always has been and there always will be. (I have not and will not argue that our damage should be increased, but we still shouldn't have to hit you 20+ times when it may take you 6-7 shots to kill us. (Granted this is indeed just an estimate (the 6-7 hits to kill melee people) and obviously it will change depending on the melee your facing.)

I don't expect you all to be 1 shot, but I also don't expect to (nor should I/we) have to deal with a proc + having to try to hit you an absurd amount of times just to kill you. Especially not when you all have so many advantages before we even get to you.

Get off of your high horse there, casters should die easily...ish to melees once they are in melee-range, we die easy to you, that is how its suppose to be, I don't see melee people one shotting casters, let alone 3 or even 5 shotting them. Though this may happen more when everyone is in equal gear, but still I do NOT see it happening at all, (experience comes from - all the pvp fights I have seen.) Again I am not saying you all should be a one shot, but you still shouldn't be able to skate away from what bms are suppose to be doing, or live through an insane amount of hits, granted some melees can do this sort of thing, and you all can too... to an extent, but really as I and others have said you SHOULD NOT be doing it to the extent that you have been.

marvinhuddleston

So what you're saying is that the pufify proc is unfair because it keeps casters from dying .

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

marvinhuddleston wrote: »

So what you're saying is that the pufify proc is unfair because it keeps casters from dying .

Yes and no.

The skill alone doesn't prevent deaths, but it absolutely has the potential to prevent them. (The speed boost, anti stun + removing all debuffs, all has a great potential to get a caster out of a somewhat, sometimes even EXTREMELY 'dicey' spot. All of those can and has allowed many casters to pull of insane feats, some of which they never could do before the purify proc became far more common.) (Some casters could absolutely get out of a 'bad' spot if they were skilled enough/truly had superior gear than everyone else, but now with the purify proc it seems as if though things have went from being slightly in their favor... to being GREATLY in their favor. As in every fight that a 20 vs 1 happens people like adroit can claim that it was their lack of effort/knowledge/gear that prevented them from taking "me" down. This SHOULDN'T be the case in every one of his 20 vs 1 fights, perhaps in a few, but not EVERY single one, especially not where the proc is seriously helping him do things he would have had major trouble with... without the proc. (Group pvp of course))

I know it is a very complicated definition/answer, but the skill itself is arguably the most powerful weapon proc/skill in game... one that gives many people issues. (Unless of course your the one benefiting from it, and when that is the case you will undoubtedly defend it... if you want to keep it/really believe that it isn't overpowered.)

marvinhuddleston

The finale caster base weapon is a lvl 13 weapon with the same purify proc . Can a toon in lvl 13 gear win a 20 v 1 ? No .....So what was it that allowed that one caster to beat twenty ? The one caster is a Lvl 105 , wearing full Rank 9 3rd cast , all + 12 , with full steady jades of defense . I guess that caster has'nt heard that he was supposed to be easy to kill .

Tide_Surfer - Archosaur

marvinhuddleston wrote: »

The finale caster base weapon is a lvl 13 weapon with the same purify proc . Can a toon in lvl 13 gear win a 20 v 1 ? No .....So what was it that allowed that one caster to beat twenty ? The one caster is a Lvl 105 , wearing full Rank 9 3rd cast , all + 12 , with full steady jades of defense . I guess that caster has'nt heard that he was supposed to be easy to kill .

Um.....wut?

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

marvinhuddleston wrote: »

The finale caster base weapon is a lvl 13 weapon with the same purify proc . Can a toon in lvl 13 gear win a 20 v 1 ? No .....So what was it that allowed that one caster to beat twenty ? The one caster is a Lvl 105 , wearing full Rank 9 3rd cast , all + 12 , with full steady jades of defense . I guess that caster has'nt heard that he was supposed to be easy to kill .

Such a person could still be locked down till purged/debuffed enough to be killed by (somewhat) lesser geared players if Purify Spell wasn't attributed to their weapon however...