Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

BungaSakura - Raging Tide

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You saw full r9rr +12 bm and cleric die to an aps sin solo? Were they afk?

they are not. i mean 1 vs 1. recast rank 9 sin against rank 9 recast BM, then rank 9 recast sin against rank 9 recast cleric. they pvp 1 by 1. sin can kill them easy. and they are not afk. sorry if my english bad.

Marengo - Lost City

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and then like someone stated, if it has 20 chance to proc per second, u can lose 100% of ur hp when it could have been 20 tt60 users attacking u, sounds fair

R9r+12 dying to several tt60. Made my day b:laughb:laughb:laugh

Joshcja - Sanctuary

To compare purify to other procs:

You are playing a game of checkers

A checker with GOF/SBH will randomly take 2 checkers instead of 1

A checker with purify will electrocute the opponent into unconsciousness randomly whenever they try to jump it, while you take the time to rearrange the whole board in your favor.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

To compare purify to other procs:

You are playing a game of checkers

A checker with GOF/SBH will randomly take 2 checkers instead of 1

A checker with purify will electrocute the opponent into unconsciousness randomly whenever they try to jump it, while you take the time to rearrange the whole board in your favor.

that would be SoSt. somehow you managed to make an analogy that it's obvious that it's wrong

Crazybladema - Harshlands

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

that would be SoSt. somehow you managed to make an analogy that it's obvious that it's wrong

No its correct. (Purify Proc) is a 6 second holy path with a purify and antistun effect. Because of this, if a user that has this proc is lucky and gets one they can run away and reset the fight.

They would have enough time to get their charm to tick.

They would have a decent amount of time for their cool downs to reset and a little time for their genies to replenish their points.

Although its not exactly that checkerboard analogy it is accurate.

All while the person trying to kill them is attempting to chase them down and doesn't get the same luxury. While the other person with (purify) gets some time to set up their next move. Whether it be defensive or offensive.

This is all assuming the purify user knows what their doing. f:meh

Which is why its very op

Regenbogen - Lost City

Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »

No its correct. (Purify Proc) is a 6 second holy path with a purify and antistun effect. Because of this, if a user that has this proc is lucky and gets one they can run away and reset the fight.

They would have enough time to get their charm to tick.

They would have a decent amount of time for their cool downs to reset and a little time for their genies to replenish their points.

Although its not exactly that checkerboard analogy it is accurate.

All while the person trying to kill them is attempting to chase them down and doesn't get the same luxury. While the other person with (purify) gets some time to set up their next move. Whether it be defensive or offensive.

This is all assuming the purify user knows what their doing. f:meh

Which is why its very op

IF purify procs...

i am assuming all who voted for remove dont know what they are doing!

which is why they are just QQers who should learn to play or quit!

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

IF purify procs...

i am assuming all who voted for remove dont know what they are doing!

which is why they are just QQers who should learn to play or quit!

Glad you live in a happy little world where weapon procs never activate

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver

purify is "overpowered" in group pvp, but almost useless in 1v1.

gof is both strong in 1v1 and group pvp

dunno but, in a way isnt it like balance?

Adroit - Lost City

I said a number of pages back that I'd post a vid of me vs Bait.. we both recorded the fight but he offered to post it and im lazy.. so here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9jjN3sj-w4

Joshcja - Sanctuary

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

purify is "overpowered" in group pvp, but almost useless in 1v1.

gof is both strong in 1v1 and group pvp

dunno but, in a way isnt it like balance?

True I mean look at the classes that use GoF to charm bypass with crit zerks off that 25% chance....and the 30% or so crit rate... its like theres a 8% or lower chance to crit zerk

And mele crit or zerk = caster normal hit...

Wow looking at the chances purify gives waaay more bang for your buck in any situation dosent it?

Seriously sit down and look at the number of hits it takes each non purify class to kill a self buffed purify class

then work out how much luck either side needs

Hell Assume w/e gear level you want I worked these out at +10 full R999 JOSD and +12 full R999 josd when I bothered

Turns out purify has a pretty stupidly high chance of procing before the attacking procs become relevant on someone at endgame gear even in a 1v1.

(damage needed to kill)/(# of hits in longest stun time x DPH) = extra damage fron crit/zerks needed just divide this by base damage and you'll see how many times crit/zerk is needed. Hint its lower than an 8% chance most of the time self buffed and ALWAYS lower fully buffed

for SBH its # of hits to proc SBH+# of hits needed to kill x 8/100 = chance of purify

Again purify will go off before kill most of the time. (If I remember right its like a 3 to once chance of purify getting you out before the kill)

So in relevant situations purify has the highest chance of any proc to activate when its most needed AND the greatest impact on the game AND completely breaks group pvp AND breaks quite a bit of pve

Dude

ya'll are just thuper shpethal if you think this proc is balanced anywhere outside the purify/purify mirror

That said purify has only a very small impact when your geni/apoc/ save me skills are on CD and someone can threaten lethal damage at a decent % chance. However with the increased chance of escaping elsewhere the ability to focus ONLY on immediately lethal situations instead of only potentially lethal situations means that the chances of being caught in a "well bugger" situation are slim enough that they can be ignored entirely

_isucku_ - Lost City

why remove? because u can't kill? its the only way magic classes become OP. For the past months melee classes overpower PWI especially sin, now its time magic classes shine again. let us enjoy what we have on present.

gyroki

They can keep purify/speed on R999 wep.
You can still run away and casters are not that fast.
They should just deactivate purify/speed proc when a R999 caster carries the flag.

Just because: This shouldn't be a caster job.
Casters are damage dealer, thats it.

With purify/speed on a R999 wep you break the social component of the game.
When this is broken, you can also play an offline rpg.
The game is not a multi-player game anymore when a single toon can play every roll in pvp.

Even when they paid thousands of dollars for this game (and ofc pretending to be the only smart merchants on every servers which make 100 million coins every day lol, as if anyone with a brain would believe those warren-chezes-whatever-trashtalkers and their low-brain-followers).


Btw, tank barbs benefit less of all classes on unique add-on on R999.
Because they have lowest crit rate of all melee classes: When they e.g. have just 25% crit the their zerk-crit rate is just 5%. And when they are vit-build even their 4x dmg is lame - there is only armageddon left over which requires 2 sparks, a non-moving target and you should better have max. HP while casting = you are almost never able to cast it in group pvp.

But thats even ok. Because barbs are tanks and not DDs.

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

True I mean look at the classes that use GoF to charm bypass with crit zerks off that 25% chance....and the 30% or so crit rate... its like theres a 8% or lower chance to crit zerk

And mele crit or zerk = caster normal hit...

Wow looking at the chances purify gives waaay more bang for your buck in any situation dosent it?

Seriously sit down and look at the number of hits it takes each non purify class to kill a self buffed purify class

then work out how much luck either side needs

Hell Assume w/e gear level you want I worked these out at +10 full R999 JOSD and +12 full R999 josd when I bothered

Turns out purify has a pretty stupidly high chance of procing before the attacking procs become relevant on someone at endgame gear even in a 1v1.

(damage needed to kill)/(# of hits in longest stun time x DPH) = extra damage fron crit/zerks needed just divide this by base damage and you'll see how many times crit/zerk is needed. Hint its lower than an 8% chance most of the time self buffed and ALWAYS lower fully buffed

for SBH its # of hits to proc SBH+# of hits needed to kill x 8/100 = chance of purify

Again purify will go off before kill most of the time. (If I remember right its like a 3 to once chance of purify getting you out before the kill)

So in relevant situations purify has the highest chance of any proc to activate when its most needed AND the greatest impact on the game AND completely breaks group pvp AND breaks quite a bit of pve

Dude

ya'll are just thuper shpethal if you think this proc is balanced anywhere outside the purify/purify mirror

That said purify has only a very small impact when your geni/apoc/ save me skills are on CD and someone can threaten lethal damage at a decent % chance. However with the increased chance of escaping elsewhere the ability to focus ONLY on immediately lethal situations instead of only potentially lethal situations means that the chances of being caught in a "well bugger" situation are slim enough that they can be ignored entirely

and? do u know gof is op for a lot of ppl? when u dont have "end game gears" casters get eaten by sins, seekers or w/e has gof. and purify break pve? yeah not like sins and bms broke pve way before

gyroki wrote: »

They can keep purify/speed on R999 wep.
You can still run away and casters are not that fast.
They should just deactivate purify/speed proc when a R999 caster carries the flag.

Just because: This shouldn't be a caster job.
Casters are damage dealer, thats it.

With purify/speed on a R999 wep you break the social component of the game.
When this is broken, you can also play an offline rpg.
The game is not a multi-player game anymore when a single toon can play every roll in pvp.

Even when they paid thousands of dollars for this game (and ofc pretending to be the only smart merchants on every servers which make 100 million coins every day lol, as if anyone with a brain would believe those warren-chezes-whatever-trashtalkers and their low-brain-followers).


Btw, tank barbs benefit less of all classes on unique add-on on R999.
Because they have lowest crit rate of all melee classes: When they e.g. have just 25% crit the their zerk-crit rate is just 5%. And when they are vit-build even their 4x dmg is lame - there is only armageddon left over which requires 2 sparks, a non-moving target and you should better have max. HP while casting = you are almost never able to cast it in group pvp.

But thats even ok. Because barbs are tanks and not DDs.

barbs is the most op class in 1v1, go play maybe?

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I said a number of pages back that I'd post a vid of me vs Bait.. we both recorded the fight but he offered to post it and im lazy.. so here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9jjN3sj-w4

Is this video meant to show that wizards need purify proc to 1 v 1 a sin, as well as every other class?

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »

they are not. i mean 1 vs 1. recast rank 9 sin against rank 9 recast BM, then rank 9 recast sin against rank 9 recast cleric. they pvp 1 by 1. sin can kill them easy. and they are not afk. sorry if my english bad.

That's only happening when the BM and cleric were complete TRASH, but then again, people lack common sense. That sin should be locked so easily it is a shame. Even a cleric alone should easily solo sins with purify proc on and have them shields up easy and sleep lock them.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and? do u know gof is op for a lot of ppl? when u dont have "end game gears" casters get eaten by sins, seekers or w/e has gof. and purify break pve? yeah not like sins and bms broke pve way before

*looks at the ridiculously long list of ways DPS setups have been nerfed directly or indirectly into the ground*

Yes lets compare the thing you will go to the fences to defend too that

Wow, you is smrt

Seekers do not have GoF pre endgame

Your a psy, sins are a joke to you

Pre endgame GoF weapons = .... g 15 vana axe/daggers, sac assult = tt 90 blade/axe/fist lunar pole g 15 vana axe

So yes, if you get oh ko's by any of those you should probably stop playing the game now.

Or are you ignorant enough to talk about R9 or R999 +10-12 axes ohkoing people who cant be bothered refining armor/ornies? because dude that happens no mater what your weapon is

Adroit - Lost City

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Is this video meant to show that wizards need purify proc to 1 v 1 a sin, as well as every other class?

This video is just a demonstration of what r9rr +12 wiz vs sin is like.. and sin wasn't full josd.. with full josd an undine spark d.pyro would hit ~75% of his hp non-crit, which would make it even more difficult to kill him. I think that you can see that the 1v1 is fairly well balanced (slight edge to me, although gear advantage so that is to be expected I think), and without purify or even with any of the proposed modifications.. I would certainly be at a significant disadvantage. This video doesn't include other classes.. so obviously is only addressing the specific case of wiz vs sin. I still feel purify is fine vs other classes as well.. as well as group pvp, but I cannot upload every single possible pvp scenario to defend my assertions.. this is just one example where purify is balanced just fine. If you have anything in particular you want to see, I may be able to fit it in my next video.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

>Highest DPH melee class fighting an Arcane
>Arcane class takes an average of maybe 1-2k per hit
>Arcane dealing 3k-4k per hit
>Arcane has a combo that nearly lolwunshotz said melee
>Arcanes need Purify Spell

K bro

Adroit - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

>Arcane class takes an average of maybe 1-2k per hit
>Arcane dealing 3k-4k per hit

Nope and Nope.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Nope and Nope.

Should re-watch your video then. I don't believe I have to explain anything when it's right here in front of you.

Adroit - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Should re-watch your video then. I don't believe I have to explain anything when it's right here in front of you.

What video do I have against the highest dph melee class again? I haven't seen it. If you meant against a sin that didn't even have equal gear.. without debuffs I was hitting Bait generally around 2k non crit.. and he was hitting me around 1-2k as well. This obv is a terrible comparison because we have different hp pools, hit at different rates, skills have different effects, never kill each other without amps/debuffs, etc etc.. but I'm sure you knew all that and were just trying to troll me. Or maybe you are just ****, I'll probably never know.

FayHumming - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Should re-watch your video then. I don't believe I have to explain anything when it's right here in front of you.

b:chuckle melee class can do 3-5k dmg per hit with even level and max gears. b:chuckle Max gears seeker did criti of 18k dmg on me.

So many QQ and TROLL with fake info

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

*looks at the ridiculously long list of ways DPS setups have been nerfed directly or indirectly into the ground*

Yes lets compare the thing you will go to the fences to defend too that

Wow, you is smrt

Seekers do not have GoF pre endgame

Your a psy, sins are a joke to you

Pre endgame GoF weapons = .... g 15 vana axe/daggers, sac assult = tt 90 blade/axe/fist lunar pole g 15 vana axe

So yes, if you get oh ko's by any of those you should probably stop playing the game now.

Or are you ignorant enough to talk about R9 or R999 +10-12 axes ohkoing people who cant be bothered refining armor/ornies? because dude that happens no mater what your weapon is

ur the one crying but ok!

casters need super expansive gears before being "OP" or reach other classes survivability index. if u dont take jods or +12 orns armors (lets be honest everyone go for +12 weap and usualy cap at +10 for the rest), at the r9 r9rr stage, sins,seekers and archers eat casters alive. even a barb or bm can win easily at this stage (they have way more survivability and gof/crit etc make up for the lack of damage) they just last longer and have a better survivabilty/damage ratio

but yes at full +12 casters are stronger.

casters are like an exponential curve while the rest are like logarithm one

and casters "OPness" dont make them earn 10 times more coins like bms and sins used to before nw b:bye

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

True I mean look at the classes that use GoF to charm bypass with crit zerks off that 25% chance....and the 30% or so crit rate... its like theres a 8% or lower chance to crit zerk

And mele crit or zerk = caster normal hit...

Wow looking at the chances purify gives waaay more bang for your buck in any situation dosent it?

Seriously sit down and look at the number of hits it takes each non purify class to kill a self buffed purify class

then work out how much luck either side needs

Hell Assume w/e gear level you want I worked these out at +10 full R999 JOSD and +12 full R999 josd when I bothered

Turns out purify has a pretty stupidly high chance of procing before the attacking procs become relevant on someone at endgame gear even in a 1v1.

(damage needed to kill)/(# of hits in longest stun time x DPH) = extra damage fron crit/zerks needed just divide this by base damage and you'll see how many times crit/zerk is needed. Hint its lower than an 8% chance most of the time self buffed and ALWAYS lower fully buffed

for SBH its # of hits to proc SBH+# of hits needed to kill x 8/100 = chance of purify

Again purify will go off before kill most of the time. (If I remember right its like a 3 to once chance of purify getting you out before the kill)

So in relevant situations purify has the highest chance of any proc to activate when its most needed AND the greatest impact on the game AND completely breaks group pvp AND breaks quite a bit of pve

Dude

ya'll are just thuper shpethal if you think this proc is balanced anywhere outside the purify/purify mirror

That said purify has only a very small impact when your geni/apoc/ save me skills are on CD and someone can threaten lethal damage at a decent % chance. However with the increased chance of escaping elsewhere the ability to focus ONLY on immediately lethal situations instead of only potentially lethal situations means that the chances of being caught in a "well bugger" situation are slim enough that they can be ignored entirely

Plug in w/e numbers these are just a simple example of how to compare the "apples" of damage procs to the "oranges" of purify. They're far from perfect but they give a easy to understand and accurate arguement (Yes I did run the real maths but hey, you'd just ignore that too)

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Whaaa Whaaa baby want a bottle Whaaaa

It ok baby here jooo are yes you are awww did you make a bo booo awwwww

But seriously saying "well I use this and I think its balanced and people who agree with me agree with me because we is all agreeing."

No

The easiest way to prove a theory is to attemp to disprove it. I honestly cannot argue for a "balanced" purify because nothing I have seen, heard, calculated, or witnessed in my wildest dreams can justify the proc as is.

There have been a plethora of arguments against the proc however the only thing, in the entire thread (yes I actually read this abomination) that has been argued for the balance of purify is "I like it cause I can pvp and eat peanut butter with my hands and because I SAY its balanced"

Make one point, one, based on a quantifiable fact.

"non +12 people dont count!" yes just throw away 99.9999% of the playerbse
"Purify is only op if your full +12" Just...what?
"I'm right and everyone else is wrong" Ok sugarbuns, hey remember when you said demon wiz sucked at 1v1 and hailstorm/pitfall were a waste of time? No I'm not actually antagonizing you here. I make it pretty damn clear when I'm doing that. I'm stating that yes, in all your endgame experience or whatever, you can be wrong. You argue in circles with yourself, and you deploy logical fallacies like the allied nations on bloody D-day. But hey maybe you honestly dont notice these things, well heres a glowing chance to not look like a total farce!

Sit down, and try to prove that purify IS op. With numbers logic or even youtube ****.

If you are right and purify is just dandy and your logic is sound, grats, you win.

If not then I fully expect more circumvention of confrontation and attempts to hold some non existent high ground.

Or you know its an OP POS and will just try to blow this off

I put my money on #3

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

What video do I have against the highest dph melee class again? I haven't seen it. If you meant against a sin that didn't even have equal gear.. without debuffs I was hitting Bait generally around 2k non crit.. and he was hitting me around 1-2k as well. This obv is a terrible comparison because we have different hp pools, hit at different rates, skills have different effects, never kill each other without amps/debuffs, etc etc.. but I'm sure you knew all that and were just trying to troll me. Or maybe you are just ****, I'll probably never know.

"Without debuffs". Because you don't spam Undine? Because every wizard ever doesn't spam Undine? Because every class with a debuff it can use isn't going to use it at every chance to boost their damage or land a kill they otherwise would not land? You have the audacity to call me stupid when you try to bring up something completely irrelevant such as unbuffed damage? And in this case it is irrelevant, considering that as a Wizard you do get to spam it near infinitely making it almost a constant factor in the fight. I mean, what, do you view Cleric fights that way? "Well, the Cleric can't kill him without magic defense debuffing him so I guess he just can't hit hard at all." The fact of the matter is, when you can spam a debuff for pretty much 0 cost, it's a near permanent factor when you decide to go for the kill. It's there, it can be used, and it will be used. Rendering the "durr me no hit gud wiffout debuf" argument totally invalid, because you won't be hitting without debuffs when you do go in to land a kill. The only reason it wouldn't be is if it gets purified or expires before you kill the person with whatever combo you're trying to use, after which it can be reapplied as you please.

Hmm, come to think of it, if neither of you can kill the other without amps or debuffs then why is mentioning unbuffed even relevant? It's the debuffed damage that matters, and from what I saw you hit him much harder than he hit you. 7-11ks on your end, well over that with Undine+Spark. The most I saw him land was 10k and that took much more setup.

I don't imagine his HP pool matters so much when you have the ability to do over 20k noncrit, and 41.7k crit. Had you finished that combo, even through deaden that sin would have more than likely died. Even with Jades I'd bet that combo would manage to kill him. Or am I wrong? Does Undine+Spark+Sutra Fire spam not kill anyone at all ever if they don't have the means to stop it? Are Wizards just helpless little creatures unable to defend themselves? 'Cause I'm pretty sure full Jades do nothing to directly increase damage output.

Tell me, how is a damage comparison terrible because you're both different classes. If anything, that's the very thing that make it relevant. As people have said, fights with an arcane are a DPH contest in which casters have the advantage. They hit naturally harder and now have a chance to break free of stuns/debuffs. DPH renders "different hit rates" pretty much irrelevant, as even if he can spam skills a bit faster it's not so much that it means anything. Especially when you're able to keep your distance and land multiple hits from afar.

Unlike you, I don't need to resort to trolling. I can make my points logically, something you and I don't seem to have in common.

FayHumming - Dreamweaver wrote: »

b:chuckle melee class can do 3-5k dmg per hit with even level and max gears. b:chuckle Max gears seeker did criti of 18k dmg on me.

So many QQ and TROLL with fake info

Seekers are TOTALLY melee. Totally. They don't attack from long range, or have magic skills. They're melee ranged melee with melee attacks to do melee damage within melee range.

Adroit - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

"Without debuffs". Because you don't spam Undine? Because every wizard ever doesn't spam Undine? Because every class with a debuff it can use isn't going to use it at every chance to boost their damage or land a kill they otherwise would not land? You have the audacity to call me stupid when you try to bring up something completely irrelevant such as unbuffed damage? And in this case it is irrelevant, considering that as a Wizard you do get to spam it near infinitely making it almost a constant factor in the fight. I mean, what, do you view Cleric fights that way? "Well, the Cleric can't kill him without magic defense debuffing him so I guess he just can't hit hard at all." The fact of the matter is, when you can spam a debuff for pretty much 0 cost, it's a near permanent factor when you decide to go for the kill. It's there, it can be used, and it will be used. Rendering the "durr me no hit gud wiffout debuf" argument totally invalid, because you won't be hitting without debuffs when you do go in to land a kill. The only reason it wouldn't be is if it gets purified or expires before you kill the person with whatever combo you're trying to use, after which it can be reapplied as you please.

Hmm, come to think of it, if neither of you can kill the other without amps or debuffs then why is mentioning unbuffed even relevant? It's the debuffed damage that matters, and from what I saw you hit him much harder than he hit you. 7-11ks on your end, well over that with Undine+Spark. The most I saw him land was 10k and that took much more setup.

I don't imagine his HP pool matters so much when you have the ability to do over 20k noncrit, and 41.7k crit. Had you finished that combo, even through deaden that sin would have more than likely died. Even with Jades I'd bet that combo would manage to kill him. Or am I wrong? Does Undine+Spark+Sutra Fire spam not kill anyone at all ever if they don't have the means to stop it? Are Wizards just helpless little creatures unable to defend themselves? 'Cause I'm pretty sure full Jades do nothing to directly increase damage output.

Tell me, how is a damage comparison terrible because you're both different classes. If anything, that's the very thing that make it relevant. As people have said, fights with an arcane are a DPH contest in which casters have the advantage. They hit naturally harder and now have a chance to break free of stuns/debuffs. DPH renders "different hit rates" pretty much irrelevant, as even if he can spam skills a bit faster it's not so much that it means anything. Especially when you're able to keep your distance and land multiple hits from afar.

Unlike you, I don't need to resort to trolling. I can make my points logically, something you and I don't seem to have in common.



Seekers are TOTALLY melee. Totally. They don't attack from long range, or have magic skills. They're melee ranged melee with melee attacks to do melee damage within melee range.

So you agree that you bringing up unbuffed/unamped damage is ****. You bring it up, I tell you how stupid it is.. you then say how stupid it is and pretend I was the one who brought it up.. LOL. You just made an entire post arguing how stupid your own point was.. this is absolutely hilarious.

Crazybladema - Harshlands

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

IF purify procs...

i am assuming all who voted for remove dont know what they are doing!

which is why they are just QQers who should learn to play or quit!

I think it should be modified rather than removed.

If it was there to nerf aps, maybe the devs should of make the proc only activated by "auto attacks". Aps is overpowered as well, so there should be something to help certain classes out with it. Especially the arcanes.

That way things would be more or less back to normal in group pvp.

That would make everyone happy except anyone who doesn't know how to fight with skills. (herp derping sins). While the devs are at it, make occult ice genie skill unavailable to the tideborn.

As for you saying people should "learn how to play or quit". For asking for something that is overpowered, as it is now, to be removed or modified. Sounds alot like when the sins said triple sparking in stealth was perfectly balanced.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

So you agree that you bringing up unbuffed/unamped damage is ****. You bring it up, I tell you how stupid it is.. you then say how stupid it is and pretend I was the one who brought it up.. LOL. You just made an entire post arguing how stupid your own point was.. this is absolutely hilarious.

Oh? In what context did I bring it up? Because if I did I'd bet it's in relation to Purify Spell. You know, in that it takes away debuffs rendering them uneffective. Purify Spell has the power to take away all debuffs, which means doing damage becomes much much harder when it procs, especially since it also allows a caster to gain distance and possibly prevent debuffs being reapplied during that time period. You even seem to have missed the part where I said the debuffs will factor in unless purified or they fade away as time goes on. Purify allows that to happen at random, while also keeping a genie available for Faith or Domain/Expel to resist debuffed hits. Or Apothecary. Or Windshield. Or Aquaflame Armor as you seem to be fond of using it. A Wizard or other Arcanes debuffs will always factor in until such a time as they fade away or the melee user is packing Faith or a purify pill. The same is not true of an Arcane, as they can have debuffs randomly purified off. Tell me, since debuffs DO matter, and since it's "LOLSTUPID" to believe they don't, how is a proc that can randomly rid the user of such ailments balanced when it comes down to who can get good debuffed hits first?

I never said "debuffs don't matter". They do, they're what tend to let people land kills. I argued nothing against my own point, which is that Purify Spell needs some form of a nerf. Tell me, why do you ignore the rest of my post? If you were as amazing and great as you seem to have convinced yourself then you'd surely be able to rebut any of my other statements. I'm still waiting on an answer as to why a comparison of damage between two different classes is a horrible idea.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

So you agree that you bringing up unbuffed/unamped damage is ****. You bring it up, I tell you how stupid it is.. you then say how stupid it is and pretend I was the one who brought it up.. LOL. You just made an entire post arguing how stupid your own point was.. this is absolutely hilarious.

Depends on the class

Some can perma/amp debuff some just throw it out in spikes and some need to geni for any really useful debuffing.

Wizards will always have undine up if they want to while say...archers really only have metal (lol) STA and BV (long CD)

getting lethal damage out of amps is a commitment and if one class can get lethal off no "costly" amps then the playstyle of the fight usage of debuffs etc changes drastically

Spark is the lowest cost for boom debuff in game and wizzies hit hard enough that other players do have to play around it. They also have enough def and hp to force costly debuffs to be used. So you may not have much experience with "all in" kill strats on a normal basis. Thats ok though +12 = pro class knowledge

TL;DR unamped damage is relevant because A: it can kill in some matchups if left unchecked and B: because it relates closely to amped damage

More TL:DR in a matchup where costly debuffs are used the ability to save resources when and where you would not be able to otherwise is gamebreaking. This is called purify

Crazybladema - Harshlands

I really wonder what the reaction would be if purify got nerfed. Especially after reading this thread. f:hehe