Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

MECHserac - Lost City wrote: »

I dont care if they do or not... I fight against people with purify weapons every single day and you dont see me making a poll in forums about it lol.

Dont tell me God of Frenzy is not OP, dont tell me Spirit Blackhole weapons are not OP.

End game gear is perfectly balanced imo, so all i can see is people QQing cuz people has better gear, then instead of polling in forums, why cant you people simply play the game and get better gear and more skills in pvp.

You say purify is op cuz it procs a lot, go watch a 1v1 between puri wep wiz and a bm or barb with around the same gear, then come tell me if it rly procs more then zerk.

It procs a lot in NW or TW or big pvps cuz theres tonz of stupid people hittin the person with purify wep. In Nw i grab the flag and all i do is wait for those silly aps sins to hit me so it procs. If you were smart , you would wait for a purge on that person, then dragon and gank it , not when hes fully buffed and u do 100 damage on it.

So your arguement is that Purify isnt op because "Gof" and "Spirit blackhole" are op procs and that makes it "balanced". Lets assume that "gof" and "Spirit Blackhole" are op for arguement sake.

In fact Lets assume these procs are uber godly.

Even with the super awesome power of "gof & Spirit Blackhole". A user of that can be ganked by a group of (4-5) people with (r8, nirvy or g16 nirvy) can take out a r999 user with these procs with no problem. Although that would mean the group would have to be cordinated and know their individual roles in this scenario.

However lets talk about purify. Since the proc is about a 10% chance per hit. Chances are a group effort would cause that proc to activate a lot. This in turn causes a caster to holy path around with a free purify and antistun and killing that mentioned group.

That scenario frustrates a great many people.

Even further "this group" would not really have a solid counter to the "purify proc" and would be left defenseless because of that. Because their mentioned gears cant take down a r999 caster in a few hits. Which, is required if your going to kill a caster with purify.

They still would be able to kill "gof and spirit blackhole" users. Because those procs dont mess with the ability for groups of people to lock down people and kill them. Especially in a group pvp scenario in (TW & NW). Even as godly and overpowered as they both are. (they really are not)

This is why purify is a problem. APS messed up 1v1 pvp while, PURIFY messed up group pvp.

This is why it needs to be changed or maybe even removed.

This brings up a better question. How is Purify not "overpowered" in group pvp?
f:meh

darknessofmy wrote: »

want see MAX equal gears fight, not puxxy fight with nubs gears. People here troll because they underpowered about someone max gears.

Pay for me to get max gears an i will gladly fight... Seeing that all the people who can afford to max out the gears only run for sin,archers an casters some seekers.... No hating tho it they coins so they choose who they want to max out (knowing they have a better chance with those classes)b:cute

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Not all casters can get their defenses as high as a bm, lets say. Wizards can do it, because they have earth shield. Venos can do it too, but only in fox form. Mystics have a nice shield that looks like a mix of all the wizard's shields put into one, except that the defense offered is less, and proctecs agains different elements. Psys don't have anything to increase their defense, but they have white vodoo. Clerics have their plume shield, which imo is amazing if you have a mp charm. If you don't debuff that plume shell, it's really hard to kill a good cleric with physical attacks.

And for heavy melees (bms, barbs and seekers). Bms have their marrows, with marrow on very often a Bm can have more magic defense than an mage. Barbs just have a lot of hp and are more tanky in tiger form, in which they can use invocation. And seekers, they have a buff that increases their defense level. Unlike psys who lose attack levels to increase their defend, seekers don't lose anything. And then, seekers can debuff ur defense so much, that you end with a negative defense level. People don't realize it, but in the hand of a good player, probably Seeker is the most deadly class.

So as you can see, every class has something to cover their weakneses. Mages have skills to make up for their weak physical defense, and heavy melees have something to coutner their low magic defense. That's why I don't see anything wrong with mages doing stuff "only melees are supposed to be doing." It's just natural.

only way that is possible if the willing to sacrifice their physical attack an an accuracy an i say a psy with 22k pdef.. if a Bm decides to go all str they may reach around 29k pattck high end am not sure on that.. but with magic rings.. At same time they loose their accuracy an decrease in pattack.... an for marrows Cleric can lock a BM down for a very long time till it runs out with all that other skills they got now to debuff HP.. Tree of protection to try get rid off the hopp debuff but genie is done or the chance to use faith to get out of sleep when they are already far from you an notice you use faith an run off a bit till it wear of then seal of the gods an same **** over again lmao

dizzyrunks wrote: »

only way that is possible if the willing to sacrifice their physical attack an an accuracy an i say a psy with 22k pdef.. if a Bm decides to go all str they may reach around 29k pattck high end am not sure on that.. but with magic rings.. At same time they loose their accuracy an decrease in pattack.... an for marrows Cleric can lock a BM down for a very long time till it runs out with all that other skills they got now to debuff HP.. Tree of protection to try get rid off the hopp debuff but genie is done or the chance to use faith to get out of sleep when they are already far from you an notice you use faith an run off a bit till it wear of then seal of the gods an same **** over again lmao

u know most casters go for physical rings for more pdef right? dont they lose magic attack doing so? invalid argument.

just prove again defense/hp > damage, thats why tanks win

verdant shell gives about 5k pdeff 6k wood,water element resist.
anyway wheres the thread to stop spirit blackhole,and GOF?
Wtf is this thread still goiing on for? get closed already.

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Not all casters can get their defenses as high as a bm, lets say. Wizards can do it, because they have earth shield. Venos can do it too, but only in fox form. Mystics have a nice shield that looks like a mix of all the wizard's shields put into one, except that the defense offered is less, and proctecs agains different elements. Psys don't have anything to increase their defense, but they have white vodoo. Clerics have their plume shield, which imo is amazing if you have a mp charm. If you don't debuff that plume shell, it's really hard to kill a good cleric with physical attacks.

And for heavy melees (bms, barbs and seekers). Bms have their marrows, with marrow on very often a Bm can have more magic defense than an mage. Barbs just have a lot of hp and are more tanky in tiger form, in which they can use invocation. And seekers, they have a buff that increases their defense level. Unlike psys who lose attack levels to increase their defend, seekers don't lose anything. And then, seekers can debuff ur defense so much, that you end with a negative defense level. People don't realize it, but in the hand of a good player, probably Seeker is the most deadly class.

So as you can see, every class has something to cover their weakneses. Mages have skills to make up for their weak physical defense, and heavy melees have something to coutner their low magic defense. That's why I don't see anything wrong with mages doing stuff "only melees are supposed to be doing." It's just natural.

It is my opinion, that each of the melee's (the same can be said about a few of the caster skills you mention, but none are as always present as each of the melee) 'strengths' to compensate for their 'weakness' is in itself a weakness. (Yes barb's have high hp, but they so lack any way to actually boost anything else they have, aside from buffs from other classes. Blademasters have their marrows, but when they defend against one thing it more than leaves them open for a world of pain from other classes (and yes I do namely mean physical classes). Granted this isn't near as much of an issue for them in 1 on 1 fights, but in mass pvp... they're often easy to take down... unless of course their gear allows them to survive. Sins, all of their defenses can be taken down with quite a bit of ease too, albeit they are I admit harder to see. The only HA class I feel doesn't really show any true weakness with their 'boost/self built-in' skills is seekers.)

EDIT: yes, all of these 'weaknesses' from their 'boosts' can all eventually be more or less nullified, but still, the truth of the matter is that the weakness that get a boost by this or that, for melees all have a major side effect, however for casters they do nigh nothing else but really gives to them. (hell the only one (caster class) I can truly think off of the top of my head that has any drawback to their 'boost' is psychics.)

Again don't get me wrong I am not saying that all casters don't have a weakness to their 'damage' reducing skills, but most do nothing of the sort to my knowledge. (Save maybe them being completely out of mana to even use them.) I still feel the purify skill on weapon has no 'solid' way of countering it, just as crazybladema pointed out. It even gives and gives just as others pointed out. (yes it does have it's weaknesses but not as 'in your face/noteable' as the other skills/procs that other classes have on their class/weapon. Though yes gof/purge have their moments where they really tear things up and then some, but still they have their very "note worthy" weaknesses, whereas that does NOT seem to be the case with the purify proc on weapon. (though yes again they have their weaknesses, just non of them are as 'hah, I have almost no weakness' as the purify proc. Albeit I must say the purge skill on weapons can be quite overwhelming, to many many people, and yet it still has it's "weaknesses." Albeit they are less evident than the weaknesses of the GOF proc.)

EDIT: Again we're not saying the issue lies in 1 on 1 fights, the true issue with the proc lies when things are far harder to control. (I.E tw/nw/open world pvp.)

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

what is wrong with caster having purify?
tanks get gof to have more dph than dd classes, archers get veno skill, casters get more survivability
everything sounds logic b:pleased

you say aps was a problem, and now its purify. but remove purify, but why every aps chars never asked aps to be removed? oh yay because could make 10x more coins than everyone else (and no im not even jelly ).
btw dont think 5 r8 or nirv can take out a r9rr seeker or barb, because they might be "easier" to gank, but zerk or even better zerk crit will make them one shot the whole group, thats called fairness i guess

and plz everyone stop being dumb, "melee have lower attack than caster not logic :<" oh yay forgot u have 50-60% more hp b:cry

All the hp in the world wont help you if you can't survive the attacks of the people on you.

You do however bring up a good point that I brought up a few pages back. It IS the defense that you get from ornaments/rings that REALLY make people hard to take down, not the "R93r/G16 gear that they may have) I realize hp undoubtedly helps, but if you still only have 5k mag/p def with 15k+ hp your still going to be in a world of pain if your hit by whomever that benefits the most.

Mingkeey - Lost City wrote: »

verdant shell gives about 5k pdeff 6k wood,water element resist.
anyway wheres the thread to stop spirit blackhole,and GOF?
Wtf is this thread still goiing on for? get closed already.

everyone keeps comparing purify to GoF/blackhole but i havent seen a pro/con list of each of these so ill give it a shot..

purify proc

Pros- since it doesnt require you attack to activate the more people attacking you the move likely you will survive (assuming they arent endgame full r9 3rd cast with high refines)

-can purify all debuffs (if being attacked by alot of lesser geared low damage characters purify will make being debuffed pretty much impossible)

-200% increase in movement plus makes immune to movement debuffs ( again if a group of low damage characters are attacking can pretty much make you permanently immune to movement debuffs)

Cons- there are none (doesnt drain mp/hp nor give any kind of debuff when used)

Edit: forgot about it until Slivaf pointed it out XD
- in 1vs1 with endgame gear its far less effective then as in group pvp

---

blackhole proc

Pros- can remove almost all buffs
- doesnt drain hp/mp nor gives debuff when used

Cons - have to attack a target for it to activate ( if stunned or sealed this proc is 100% useless since you cant attack)

---

GoF proc

Pros - deal double damage when activated
- when combined with a crit hit can do massive damage
- great for 1v1 or small groups (if you have spam-able AoEs)

Cons- requires you to attack a target to activate
-every activation will drain 5% hp so the higher your hp the more damage the activation will do

-when fighting large groups the longer the fight the more likely you are to die thanks to the 5% hp drain( unless you have BP then the hp drain can be overcome by BP healing)

---

i tried to make the pros/cons as honest as i could b:chuckle

i do think that purify should either have a CD of atleast 30 seconds or make it so you have to attack to activate it b:surrender

-runs away before being flamed- b:avoid

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Archers have the longest attack range in the game, when fighting they can effectively have their proc activate from a larger range than a Melee class can. Seeker's range isn't as large as an Archer, nor is every attack long range. Even though Metal zerk is ****.

You're splitting hairs. The point I am trying to make is that, all other factors being equal, there are pointless limitations on our proc that have always been there for no discernible reason (I am assuming a programming one) versus other procs. If it's a balance issue, I am not seeing the point given the freedom other procs exhibit in the same scenario.

marvinhuddleston wrote: »

From reading all of the posts on this thread , Its plain to see that all of the crying is over the speed boost and all pretty much all comming from bm's , sins . I guess the idea of arcane escaping from being murdered by gof seems unfair . * offers a crying towel * Suck it up little troopers , you still have natural spee boosts to help you catch up .

this, no longer melee world

Purple_fury - Sanctuary wrote: »

of course thats why people are complaining b:thanks

its in no way because in group PvP a endgame caster with purify proc has better survivability then a endgame barb and some of the best dph in the game b:shutup

oh and i wanted to ask since my skills must be glitched.. what bm skill gives me unlimited 200% speed increase/blocks all movement debuffs, that doesnt cost any mp or requires a spark to use, and has no CD or cast time?

LoL this makes me sure u dont even have an end game gear that u are claim....cough rank 9 recast +12 barb more squishy then rank 9 caster on same refine. I saw clergywoman vid (rank 9 recast cleric level 105) against Kastus (rank 9 recast sin 105), Kastus keep killing clergy 1 vs 1. b:bye

Purple_fury - Sanctuary wrote: »

or make it so you have to attack to activate it b:surrender
-runs away before being flamed- b:avoid

This suggestion goes against the whole idea behind the proc as it is to allow casters to break out of a stun lock situation and to get away. It is very easy to keep a caster in place without the purify proc purely because most of us do not have any anti stun skills.

I have said it before along with others that it is the speed buff that is making it appear broken in terms or things like running flags in nation wars. Just having purify and an anti stun is plenty to allows casters to fight back/run/whatever.

Everyone could just get over themselves and make a r9rr caster for nation wars b:shutup since casters almost had to make an aps toon to get anything done in the past.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This suggestion goes against the whole idea behind the proc as it is to allow casters to break out of a stun lock situation and to get away. It is very easy to keep a caster in place without the purify proc purely because most of us do not have any anti stun skills.

I have said it before along with others that it is the speed buff that is making it appear broken in terms or things like running flags in nation wars. Just having purify and an anti stun is plenty to allows casters to fight back/run/whatever.

Everyone could just get over themselves and make a r9rr caster for nation wars b:shutup since casters almost had to make an aps toon to get anything done in the past.

thats just the one i thought up really.
id prefer if it had a CD over making it so you have to attack to activate it since the real problem with the proc is how often it goes off.

with a group of low damage players attacking it makes it impossible to debuff a caster at all and if theres not endgame high damage character around the chances the caster will die is pretty much 0